The biggest criticism of Mike Tomlin should derive from the incessant drama surrounding the Steelers

[polamalubeast]

I’m a big Mike Tomlin fan — have been since he was hired as the Pittsburgh Steelers’ head coach in 2007. But despite enjoying what Tomlin brings to the Steelers on a weekly basis, I realize there’s some criticism which is on-point. To be honest, all NFL coaches get criticism for one thing or another. Even the evil genius in New England, Bill Belichick, has been criticized and chastised for decisions made — Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl anyone?

As for Tomlin, the majority of criticism he faces typically is based on this thought of the team being unprepared. On our weekly podcast last night (which you can listen to by clicking HERE), I spoke about this and asked listeners to give concrete football evidence of how Tomlin should be blamed for something like Ben Roethlisberger’s five turnovers vs. Cleveland in Week 1 — or how they can point to a team that isn’t performing and pin this on the head coach in terms of “preparedness”.

I don’t know what goes on inside the UPMC Rooney Sports Complex on a daily basis, but I highly doubt the Steelers had fewer meetings leading up to Week 1, than they will prior to their Week-2 game vs. the Kansas City Chiefs. I doubt Mike Tomlin told Keith Butler, “Hey man, we’re playing Tyrod Taylor and the Browns this week, tell the guys to skip all defensive meetings today — we’re good.”

If the coaches coach similarly regardless of opponent, then how can they be blamed for unpreparedness?

I digress, but this all leads to my main point. While I don’t believe being unprepared is somehow a legitimate criticism of Mike Tomlin, I do believe the constant and incessant drama surrounding the Steelers is a very just criticism of the man calling the shots in Pittsburgh.

The one constant throughout Tomlin’s tenure has been drama. He’s had immense amounts of talent wearing the black-and-gold, but the drama has never gone away. In fact, it seems to have intensified during the past few seasons.

Off-field drama and other nonsense might seem a far cry from something that impacts the product on the field, but let’s take a look at the lead-up to last year’s AFC Divisional game vs. the Jacksonville Jaguars.

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https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/9/13/17854142/the-biggest-criticism-of-mike-tomlin-should-derive-from-the-incessant-drama-surrounding-the-steelers

[DesertSteel]

There was misbehavior in Noll's time and he managed it to the degree it was a distraction. That margin has changed. Tomlin repeatedly fails to manage the distraction of drama. It seems that the only tool in his box is rhetoric to the media with his straight-faced catch phrases. Mr. Tomlin: it's not working! It's as if this whole team needs an intervention. What player is going to step up and be the leader cause it ain't going to be Tomlin. And along with the writer, I've always been a Tomlin supporter, but I am wondering if he has what it takes to take us back to the promised land.

[polamalubeast]

I hate to say that, but since some Cowher players have retired like Hines Ward or James Farrior, the drama is so out of control that this is now unwatchable so much that every time I'm on Twitter I'm nervous that I see another bad news on the Steelers.

[Craic]

There was misbehavior in Noll's time and he managed it to the degree it was a distraction. That margin has changed. Tomlin repeatedly fails to manage the distraction of drama. It seems that the only tool in his box is rhetoric to the media with his straight-faced catch phrases. Mr. Tomlin: it's not working! It's as if this whole team needs an intervention. What player is going to step up and be the leader cause it ain't going to be Tomlin. And along with the writer, I've always been a Tomlin supporter, but I am wondering if he has what it takes to take us back to the promised land.

That's taking quite a bit out of historical context. It is impossible to compare Noll to Tomlin when it comes to such things because Noll didn't have to deal with ESPN and other 24 hour news organizations and national talk shows hungry for information blowing up every little story. Then, there's the internet, which was just a few universities and the US military tied together on a network at that time called ARPAnet. So, Noll didn't have to deal with someone's mother-in-law's next-door-neighbor blogging something and having it blow up, or having half-a-dozen reporters scouring the internet for anything that might make and article, and then have those things bounce back and forth as though in a reverb chamber. Finally, Noll didn't have to deal with social media that instantly bypasses the filters of time and second thoughts, let alone local sports personalities that might choose to ignore certain quotes or off-colored remarks.

In this day and age, there's drama. Period. You can't point out a team that doesn't have drama. Patriots? Please. Deflate gate alone spanned two years of intense drama. The relationship between Brady and the coaches and his personal trainer? Yeah. Of course, there was also Brady missing OTAs and instead throwing footballs on a yacht in Monaco as he was pimping for Tag Heuer. Ex-Patriots ripping the organization because of the way they treat their players (see, for instance, Cassius Marsh), and so on.

IMO, the funniest thing is when the media, who drums up and sends every little thing through the echo-chamber to create all the drama then turns around and claims the coaches aren't doing a good enough job of limiting it.

[DesertSteel]

That's taking quite a bit out of historical context. It is impossible to compare Noll to Tomlin when it comes to such things because Noll didn't have to deal with ESPN and other 24 hour news organizations and national talk shows hungry for information blowing up every little story. That's what I said! Noll managed it to the degree it was a distraction. Things have changed. No passes given.

[smokin3000gt]

That's taking quite a bit out of historical context. It is impossible to compare Noll to Tomlin when it comes to such things because Noll didn't have to deal with ESPN and other 24 hour news organizations and national talk shows hungry for information blowing up every little story. Then, there's the internet, which was just a few universities and the US military tied together on a network at that time called ARPAnet. So, Noll didn't have to deal with someone's mother-in-law's next-door-neighbor blogging something and having it blow up, or having half-a-dozen reporters scouring the internet for anything that might make and article, and then have those things bounce back and forth as though in a reverb chamber. Finally, Noll didn't have to deal with social media that instantly bypasses the filters of time and second thoughts, let alone local sports personalities that might choose to ignore certain quotes or off-colored remarks.

In this day and age, there's drama. Period. You can't point out a team that doesn't have drama. Patriots? Please. Deflate gate alone spanned two years of intense drama. The relationship between Brady and the coaches and his personal trainer? Yeah. Of course, there was also Brady missing OTAs and instead throwing footballs on a yacht in Monaco as he was pimping for Tag Heuer. Ex-Patriots ripping the organization because of the way they treat their players (see, for instance, Cassius Marsh), and so on.

IMO, the funniest thing is when the media, who drums up and sends every little thing through the echo-chamber to create all the drama then turns around and claims the coaches aren't doing a good enough job of limiting it.

Not to mention the Steelers draw a crowd, viewership, and clicks so they're basically a lightning rod under a microscope.. your post is spot on. Thanks for saving me the key strokes.

[Fire Goodell]

if i was an owner, i would give bonuses to players that don't have social media accounts

[Mojouw]

Yup. this all makes total sense. We finally know why the Steelers don't win every game. Social media and a soft coach.

Basically there are entire sports channels, radio stations, and websites that are totally dependent on the NFL for their content and therefore viewers/listners/readers. There simply is not 24/7/365 actual NFL news. Certainly not if you do not want to engage in detailed breakdowns of scheme and technique. That type of granular analysis is not why most of these talking heads have jobs.

So we get all these "debate" inducing questions. Does Tomlin go too easy on players? Is Andy Dalton better than Ben? It is just non-sense and noise. Then hardcore fans buy into the trap. We read about how AB is a brand more than a person and become convinced that this is what is holding back our team from winning a title.

Yeah. Sure the dude who lives in front of the JUGS machine. Who runs better routes than all but 3 or 5 other human beings ever. Who catches anything that comes within sight of him. That dude.

Yeah it is social media account that is what the players are thinking about while the Jags o-line pushes them around. I bet if Sean Spence wasn't concerned with AB's Instagram and Bell's contract he would've been much faster in his outside pursuit and not gotten blown out of gaps like he was made of tissue paper.

Artie Burns wouldn't have his 1-3 brain cramps per game if only Tomlin would ban social media.

People live in this fantasy land where in these bygone days of the NFL coaches exerted ultimate control over players and their actions. Players lived and died for the team and the coach - doing nothing to distract from their singular shared goal of a championship. And only then were they able to overcome all obstacles and win it all. I mean that sounds great when it is narrated by Steve Sabol and NFL films, but it is and always has been a load of crap.

The first hero of the SB age was so hungover when he went into the game he could barely run. This is by his own admission. Wonder if that distracted the other players? I'm guessing they didn't give a shit. Most of those Lombardi era Packers stars had severe gambling problems. Apparently in the 70's and '80's most of the NFL was on drugs.

But yeah, distractions man. Distractions.

[DesertSteel]

Mojouw, you always make great arguments. Thorough job of breaking down each aspect. My problem, however, is the collective. It just keeps piling up. And when the owner has to step in and say what the coach should’ve said, it’s embarrasing. So while one can explain away every infraction with a boys will be boys dismissal, it’s the never-ending pile-up that bothers me.

And for the record, I was a dope-head when I was a teenager, but is that an excuse to fail to parent my kids?

[GoSlash27]

If Tomlin took this "journalist's" criticism to heart and somehow eliminated all the social media drama, then this "journalist" would suddenly find himself unemployed. This criticism is insincere and self- serving. This is even better than the average sh%tposting that passes for journalism these days, it's a sh%tpost about all the sh%tposting. I guess I have to give him some props for that.

[Mojouw]

Mojouw, you always make great arguments. Thorough job of breaking down each aspect. My problem, however, is the collective. It just keeps piling up. And when the owner has to step in and say what the coach should’ve said, it’s embarrasing. So while one can explain away every infraction with a boys will be boys dismissal, it’s the never-ending pile-up that bothers me.

And for the record, I was a dope-head when I was a teenager, but is that an excuse to fail to parent my kids?

You make a good point about lines and consequences. I was a wayward teenager and 20 something as well. I know educate young people for a living - so I do get it -- I think.

But Tomlin and Rooney are kinda going at different purposes. The coach is paid to win football games on Sundays and is kinda sorta not supposed to care about much else. The owner has to sell the franchise and he can't keep people buying tickets and merchandise if the general public thinks all his employees are jerks. I actually would love it if as a coach I could just do football things and the owner could handle PR tempests in a teacup.

BTW - wasn't Mitchell (the old DL coach) specifically kicked upstairs to handle this kinda crap?

[Fire Goodell]

I think the Pats have more drama surrounding them. I mean all the allegations of cheating and one of their players arrested for murder. Fire Belichick? :chuckle:

Brown threatening someone on twitter is nothing, at least he didn't go all Scarface like Hernandez did

[HollywoodSteel]

I hate when the press use the word “distraction” as if football players genuinely get distracted away from whatever they normally do at any given time.

It’s like picturing someone yell “squirrel” during a practice drill, so they all turn to look, and thus fail to learn something they otherwise would have learned.

It’s ridiculous. There is NOTHING IN THE WAY OF “DRAMA” going on that actually distracts football players from being better football players.

Maybe a couple guys will discuss Bell during their off time when they otherwise would have talked about basketball or something else. But neither subject DISTRACTS them away from otherwise being better at football.

[polamalubeast]

Where was the drama with the eagles last year?...Mike McCarthy is not perfect, but the packers have very few drama in his tenure.

Seriously, the question is worth asking if Tomlin still has control of his team ... Same thing with Pete Carroll with Seattle.

[HollywoodSteel]

And why do fans buy into the “distraction” nonsense?

Why do they claim to be sick of the “drama”?

You ARE the drama! Or at least part of it. The drama means stories that the press runs with because they know that all the fans who claim to be “sick of the drama” will be their audience. People GENUINELY sick of these stories (that DO NOT MAKE FOOTBALL PLAYERS INTO WORSE FOOTBALL PLAYERS” won’t read or watch it. Because you, as an American, have the right to change the channel or read about something else.

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Don’t know why I couldn’t correct errors in that post. But you guys are smart enough to decipher it all. :)

[DesertSteel]

You make a good point about lines and consequences. I was a wayward teenager and 20 something as well. I know educate young people for a living - so I do get it -- I think.

But Tomlin and Rooney are kinda going at different purposes. The coach is paid to win football games on Sundays and is kinda sorta not supposed to care about much else. The owner has to sell the franchise and he can't keep people buying tickets and merchandise if the general public thinks all his employees are jerks. I actually would love it if as a coach I could just do football things and the owner could handle PR tempests in a teacup.

BTW - wasn't Mitchell (the old DL coach) specifically kicked upstairs to handle this kinda crap?
What do you think about stuff like live-streaming on social media in the locker room? Would you concede that’s on the coach?

I never heard that about Mitchell.

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Where was the drama with the eagles last year?...Mike McCarthy is not perfect, but the packers have very few drama in his tenure.

Seriously, the question is worth asking if Tomlin still has control of his team ... Same thing with Pete Carroll with Seattle.
If the question has to keep being asked, the only thing that’s gonna make it go away is winning the Super Bowl.

[GoSlash27]

You ARE the drama! Or at least part of it. The drama means stories that the press runs with because they know that all the fans who claim to be “sick of the drama” will be their audience. People GENUINELY sick of these stories (that DO NOT MAKE FOOTBALL PLAYERS INTO WORSE FOOTBALL PLAYERS” won’t read or watch it. Because you, as an American, have the right to change the channel or read about something else.

^This, which is precisely why I never click on these links; that would simply reward them for sh^tposting and encourage more of it. I would prefer it if I never had to see any of it, but somebody will always be sure to bring it to my attention. :/

[HollywoodSteel]

Where was the drama with the eagles last year?...Mike McCarthy is not perfect, but the packers have very few drama in his tenure.

Seriously, the question is worth asking if Tomlin still has control of his team ... Same thing with Pete Carroll with Seattle.

I think you are smart and I respect all of your insight into the game. Honestly, I love your posts and agree with a lot of what you say... but I still don’t know what you are physically picturing going on (that “Tomlin must stop) happening that makes them execute a SINGLE play differently in a game.

Are they not watching film because it’s drama time? Not concentrating during a drill because Tomlin didn’t do something he could have done to win more?

What drama exactly are you picturing? What does it look like? What would have been going on differently with any of our players if no drama (worth reporting) did something to distract that player away from being better?

[polamalubeast]

What do you think about stuff like live-streaming on social media in the locker room? Would you concede that’s on the coach?

I never heard that about Mitchell.

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If the question has to keep being asked, the only thing that’s gonna make it go away is winning the Super Bowl.

I mean it's been a long time the last time the Packers won the super bowl, despite that, not a lot of drama in this team.

[HollywoodSteel]

And correlation does not equal causation.

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Maybe I’m getting some posters’ opinions confused with others’.

But all my questions are for everyone. :)

[polamalubeast]

I think you are smart and I respect all of your insight into the game. Honestly, I love your posts and agree with a lot of what you say... but I still don’t know what you are physically picturing going on (that “Tomlin must stop) happening that makes them execute a SINGLE play differently in a game.

Are they not watching film because it’s drama time? Not concentrating during a drill because Tomlin didn’t do something he could have done to win more?

What drama exactly are you picturing? What does it look like? What would have been going on differently with any of our players if no drama (worth reporting) did something to distract that player away from being better?

Last year had too much drama despite our 13-3 record

Bell and his holdout, Brown and the Gatarade in Baltimore, Martavis Bryant, the situation of James Harrison at the end of the season, the comments of Tomlin at the end of November on the pats, etc.

This season right now, it's not too bad except for the situation of Bell ...

[HollywoodSteel]

I actually LIKE hearing all I can about that Steelers during airtime and site space that otherwise would be on the Patriots or something.

I think stuff like Bell’s hold out physically affects the team. But that’s not “drama” in the locker room that Tomlin is supposed to... do something about According to some.

But I have no idea what Tomlin is supposed to do and why exactly.

[polamalubeast]

Of course, it's not all the fault at Tomlin(I don't blame Tomlin for the Bell situation), but I think the locker room has been too loose in the last couple years.

[Mojouw]

What do you think about stuff like live-streaming on social media in the locker room? Would you concede that’s on the coach?

I never heard that about Mitchell.

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If the question has to keep being asked, the only thing that’s gonna make it go away is winning the Super Bowl.

Sure. Livestreaming the locker room was dumb. And it was addressed and stopped. It isn't like Tomlin can be a clairvoyant and decipher what idiotic thing one of his moron players is going to try and get away with next.

As to Mitchell -- "In his new role, according to a Steelers press release, Mitchell will “oversee staff development, work with current and former players in career development and assist coach Mike Tomlin in community-related events.” https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13279195-74/steelers-add-karl-dunbar-as-defensive-line-coach-retain-john-mitchell

So I guess it is more ceremonial than I originally thought. Maybe each team should hire a Vice President of Keeping a Lid on Idiocy ?

[AtlantaDan]

Sure. Livestreaming the locker room was dumb. And it was addressed and stopped. It isn't like Tomlin can be a clairvoyant and decipher what idiotic thing one of his moron players is going to try and get away with next.

As to Mitchell -- "In his new role, according to a Steelers press release, Mitchell will “oversee staff development, work with current and former players in career development and assist coach Mike Tomlin in community-related events.” https://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13279195-74/steelers-add-karl-dunbar-as-defensive-line-coach-retain-john-mitchell

So I guess it is more ceremonial than I originally thought. Maybe each team should hire a Vice President of Keeping a Lid on Idiocy ?

Apparently they offered the same job to LeBeau, who said no thanks

The job offered Mitchell was very similar to the position offered to former defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau when the Steelers promoted linebackers coach Keith Butler to run the defense in 2015. LeBeau, though, declined the position because he still wanted to coach and be on the field.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/03/27/Former-defensive-line-coach-John-Mitchell-administrative-role-steelers-tomlin-karl-dunbar/stories/201803270080

We do not think you are an effective coach anymore but we do not want to be seen as having fired you. Mitchell said I will cash those checks rather than go looking for a job with another organization at my age

[Mojouw]

I hate when the press use the word “distraction” as if football players genuinely get distracted away from whatever they normally do at any given time.

It’s like picturing someone yell “squirrel” during a practice drill, so they all turn to look, and thus fail to learn something they otherwise would have learned.

It’s ridiculous. There is NOTHING IN THE WAY OF “DRAMA” going on that actually distracts football players from being better football players.

Maybe a couple guys will discuss Bell during their off time when they otherwise would have talked about basketball or something else. But neither subject DISTRACTS them away from otherwise being better at football.

I think people buy into it because they kinda think about the whole thing wrong. Most sports fans played some or a lot of sports. Have been around teams. But all those teams were likely unpaid. So I bet guys were prone to distractions. I remember when coaches I had in the past were going on and on about working out after practices and in the off-season and on weekends. I didn't listen because it was just high school sports and I wanted to do anything but that in my free time.

Now, if you would've told me that my livelihood depended on getting this stuff right and working out on my own it would've been a different story.

No NFL players wants to endanger his money. If nothing else, they all share that. These guys are not worried about AB's instagram when they are watching film on the Chiefs.

What is not ever talked about is what is likely to actually distract any human being including an NFL player:

Is this weird lump getting bigger?
Did my shoulder always make a crunching sound?
Is my partner cheating on me? They have been really distant lately?
I wonder if I will have enough money to retire?
I hope the kids are not sick.
Have I lost a step?
Can I even physically do what coach is asking me to? Maybe I don't have it anymore...
Wonder if that dude I punched in that bar in the offseason is going to sue? Sell some video to TMZ?

I mean the list goes on and on. But those aren't "distractions". But dumb crap people say to reporters is. Makes no sense.

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Apparently they offered the same job to LeBeau, who said no thanks

The job offered Mitchell was very similar to the position offered to former defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau when the Steelers promoted linebackers coach Keith Butler to run the defense in 2015. LeBeau, though, declined the position because he still wanted to coach and be on the field.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/03/27/Former-defensive-line-coach-John-Mitchell-administrative-role-steelers-tomlin-karl-dunbar/stories/201803270080

We do not think you are an effective coach anymore but we do not want to be seen as having fired you. Mitchell said I will cash those checks rather than go looking for a job with another organization at my age

Yeah. I thought I had seen something that he was intended or thinking about watching out for people being idiots. But that might have just been speculation on a message board somewhere during the off-season.

[Mojouw]

Where was the drama with the eagles last year?...Mike McCarthy is not perfect, but the packers have very few drama in his tenure.

Seriously, the question is worth asking if Tomlin still has control of his team ... Same thing with Pete Carroll with Seattle.

I'll take this one. I live in Wisco currently. Let's see Packers drama:

Who is calling the plays?
Why aren't you calling the plays?
Oh. Now you are calling the plays again...for how long?
Why haven't you fired Dom Capers yet?
When are you going to trade Randall Cobb?
How much dope does prized draft pick Aaron Jones smoke?
Why do you never sign free agents?
Why are all of your DB draft picks absolutely wretched?
Is Letroy Guion made entirely of PED's? I mean he has been suspended for 6 games in 2 years.
Between 2015 and 2016 the Packers had 5 players suspended for various PED and substance abuse issues.

And all that is off the top of my head without even really thinking or Googling. You just don't hear about it because Green Bay is an 1+ drive from anywhere. It is really really cold and unpleasant here most of the NFL season. So it isn't like a ton of reporters come sniffing around for national stories.

[polamalubeast]

I'll take this one. I live in Wisco currently. Let's see Packers drama:

Who is calling the plays?
Why aren't you calling the plays?
Oh. Now you are calling the plays again...for how long?
Why haven't you fired Dom Capers yet?
When are you going to trade Randall Cobb?
How much dope does prized draft pick Aaron Jones smoke?
Why do you never sign free agents?
Why are all of your DB draft picks absolutely wretched?
Is Letroy Guion made entirely of PED's? I mean he has been suspended for 6 games in 2 years.
Between 2015 and 2016 the Packers had 5 players suspended for various PED and substance abuse issues.

And all that is off the top of my head without even really thinking or Googling. You just don't hear about it because Green Bay is an 1+ drive from anywhere. It is really really cold and unpleasant here most of the NFL season. So it isn't like a ton of reporters come sniffing around for national stories.

Very little drama that the packers have are non football drama

I mean, I don't think that the Packers lockerroom is too loose.

The last time the packers had a major drama was during the saga of Brett Favre during the training camp in 2008

[Mojouw]

Very little drama that the packers have are non football drama

I mean, I don't think that the Packers lockerroom is too loose.

The last time the packers had a major drama was during the saga of Brett Favre during the training camp in 2008

Fine. You win. GB is some modern day miracle of a franchise that only ever deals with football and hasn't had drama in a decade.

Why should facts and examples sway you from your entrenched position?

Surely the last two years of conversation about how and why Aaron Rodgers was estranged from his family and whether or not Olivia Munn and now Danika Patrick were making Rodgers less good at football because of their sexiness is certainly football related. The constant drumbeat of stories in the local sports media on these issues surely is primarily focused on football issues. Like can Danika identify a weakside blitz? I bet she can, she seems pretty savvy.

[polamalubeast]

Fine. You win. GB is some modern day miracle of a franchise that only ever deals with football and hasn't had drama in a decade.

Why should facts and examples sway you from your entrenched position?

Surely the last two years of conversation about how and why Aaron Rodgers was estranged from his family and whether or not Olivia Munn and now Danika Patrick were making Rodgers less good at football because of their sexiness is certainly football related. The constant drumbeat of stories in the local sports media on these issues surely is primarily focused on football issues. Like can Danika identify a weakside blitz? I bet she can, she seems pretty savvy.

Maybe you have right on the packers or other teams, but I still think that the steelers have the locker room a bit too loose

I'm not saying it's a circus like the Jets or the Bills under Rex Ryan, but it's the last thing I want to see happen with the Steelers!

[GoSlash27]

I mean the list goes on and on. But those aren't "distractions". But dumb crap people say to reporters is. Makes no sense.
^ This. If they can play through Ryan Shazier's horrifying injury and not let *that* keep them from doing what has to be done, what makes people think that all of this media "tweener drama" is somehow distracting? Oh, I remember: because the media always says it is. ;)

[Mojouw]

Maybe you have right on the packers or other teams, but I still think that the steelers have the locker room a bit too loose

I'm not saying it's a circus like the Jets or the Bills under Rex Ryan, but it's the last thing I want to see happen with the Steelers!

There is no such thing as a loose locker room or a tight locker room. There are just locker rooms. Some are full of professionals who go about their day and do their jobs. Others are tilted towards guys that do not know how to be a pro.

Every locker room has strife, drama, crimes, and social media nonsense. Just like any workplace does. People are people. Whether they play NFL football or work at Walmart. Put a group of people together and a fairly predictable series of things will happen.

I mean if military units in a combat zone can have "drama" -- and there are stories that they have and still do -- where your very life depends on being alert, focused, and prepared, why would we think an NFL team would be any different?

American sports, and the football in particular, has sold everyone a pretty slick package of myth. The story goes that football molds individuals into disciplined highly focused supremely talented players. That are able to put everything aside and doggedly pursue team goals even at the sacrifice of individual achievements. Players live, sleep, eat, and breathe "the game" or "the sport" and flourish in the crucible of competition and the weekly challenge of measuring yourself against the best in the game. The only people who work harder than the players are the almost anonymous coaches who break down tape and devise elaborate and clever stratagems to stop the sleep-deprived grinders that coach the other team. When not playing the game they all passionately love and have devoted their lives to, players and coaches briefly relax and then begin preparing for the next season with singular focus and an unrelenting drive fueled by their unyielding desire to win. But only as a team.

Does that sound realistic? Does that sound like ANY group of 90-200 people you have ever heard of? Or does that sound like something that was cobbled together in a marketing meeting from half remembered high school football days, military service, and just general rah-rah nonsense to sell the game to an eager public?

[DesertSteel]

Sure. Livestreaming the locker room was dumb. And it was addressed and stopped. It isn't like Tomlin can be a clairvoyant and decipher what idiotic thing one of his moron players is going to try and get away with next.

All of these "can't be clairvoyant" excuses make sense when there are isolated incidents. But there is a pattern. If there was a tone of zero tolerance for this douche-baggery there wouldn't be a continuation of it. I suppose we will agree to disagree on that.

Personally, I think Tomlin is a class person but only an average coach who at this point is not getting enough out of the talent at his disposal. He has 3 playoff wins since 2010. I'd very much like to see him succeed.

[Mojouw]

Who is more zero tolerance than New England? And they are team drama.

Coughlin and Marrone are seemingly big no drama guys. Jax talks more than any team since the height of the recent Seahawks run if succes. So far they've backed it up. Funny no one notices until the narrative becomes something to do with underachieving. Also, what happens when all those young guys on cheap contracts need to get paid? Anyone honestly believe Rsmday is going to negotiate quietly?

It appears as a pattern for the Steelers because they are promenint team in the middle of a 2 decade run of almost annual success. Additionally they've created a narrative that they are model franchise who is somehow exempt from the trials and tribulations that other less competent organizations experience.

And that just isn't true. If we all consumed every single Tweet, blog post, rumor, and speculation about any other franchise like we do the Steelers what would we conclude? Based on a quick and likely biased survey, my position is that ALL other NFL teams would be revealed to have similar episodes and "drama". We, lunatic Steelers fans, don't see it because we arent looking.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. .

[polamalubeast]

If Coughlin would be HC with the steelers, no doubt the steelers would have more discipline off the field!

I do not think Coughlin would have tolerated Martavis Bryant's comments on JuJu after his draft or during the season last year!

[Craic]

All of these "can't be clairvoyant" excuses make sense when there are isolated incidents. But there is a pattern. If there was a tone of zero tolerance for this douche-baggery there wouldn't be a continuation of it. I suppose we will agree to disagree on that.

Personally, I think Tomlin is a class person but only an average coach who at this point is not getting enough out of the talent at his disposal. He has 3 playoff wins since 2010. I'd very much like to see him succeed.
Perhaps, but quoting it that way throws it a bit out of context. The Steelers lost in 2011 because they were on the final breath of a SB roster. The next two years were salary cap hell years and revising the roster with young players to replace the old ones the front office had overextended with the hope of one more SB run. That puts us into 2014. Since then, We're 3-4 in the playoffs, but two of those losses were without our starting RB and one of them was without our starting RB and WR, and we still almost beat the Broncos in that game.

[Mojouw]

If Coughlin would be HC with the steelers, no doubt the steelers would have more discipline off the field!

I do not think Coughlin would have tolerated Martavis Bryant's comments on JuJu after his draft or during the season last year!

Like how he put the clamp down on Burress?

We're never going to agree on this. But I certainly enjoy debating it with you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mojouw]

I know I'm being an ass about this. But check this out

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24665618/bring-dak-prescott-not-daunted-giants-s-landon-collins-gauntlet

How many were aware of this? I certainly wasn't because I frankly don't care about either team.

But clearly both locker rooms are now poisoning their teams with distractions and an out of control locker room culture. Don't know why they're even botheing to play out the season.

Should the Steers put in a waiver claim on Dak or Collins? I mean those guys are as good as cut right? Surely no chance tougher coaches tolearte players just lobbing around bulletin board material.

[st33lersguy]

No one in the NFL has produced more locker room drama the past couple years than the Steelers. I mean, last year in particular, seemed there was a story EVERY SINGLE WEEK with this team. Did the team go one week without making headlines for the wrong reason? I don't think they did.

[Mojouw]

No one in the NFL has produced more locker room drama the past couple years than the Steelers. I mean, last year in particular, seemed there was a story EVERY SINGLE WEEK with this team. Did the team go one week without making headlines for the wrong reason? I don't think they did.

I'm not denying that. Simply saying that EVERY team has something every week. If it's not there, team focused media will put everything under a microscope until they find something.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DesertSteel]

Who is more zero tolerance than New England? And they are team drama.

Coughlin and Marrone are seemingly big no drama guys. Jax talks more than any team since the height of the recent Seahawks run if succes. So far they've backed it up. Funny no one notices until the narrative becomes something to do with underachieving. Also, what happens when all those young guys on cheap contracts need to get paid? Anyone honestly believe Rsmday is going to negotiate quietly?

It appears as a pattern for the Steelers because they are promenint team in the middle of a 2 decade run of almost annual success. Additionally they've created a narrative that they are model franchise who is somehow exempt from the trials and tribulations that other less competent organizations experience.

And that just isn't true. If we all consumed every single Tweet, blog post, rumor, and speculation about any other franchise like we do the Steelers what would we conclude? Based on a quick and likely biased survey, my position is that ALL other NFL teams would be revealed to have similar episodes and "drama". We, lunatic Steelers fans, don't see it because we arent looking.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. .
Seriously, it's possible to explain away so much that it becomes denial that there is even a problem. That's step #1 lol. Admit you have a problem. We do indeed disagree and I also respect your points individually, but there's too much smoke for me to keep denying there's fire.

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Perhaps, but quoting it that way throws it a bit out of context. The Steelers lost in 2011 because they were on the final breath of a SB roster. The next two years were salary cap hell years and revising the roster with young players to replace the old ones the front office had overextended with the hope of one more SB run. That puts us into 2014. Since then, We're 3-4 in the playoffs, but two of those losses were without our starting RB and one of them was without our starting RB and WR, and we still almost beat the Broncos in that game.
However you want to look at it, there's 3 playoff wins since they went to the Super Bowl in 2010.

[fansince'76]

If Coughlin would be HC with the steelers, no doubt the steelers would have more discipline off the field!

And chances are they'd still wind up with a largely mediocre product on it.

The (largely false, IMO) narrative of Coughlin being this great HC due to two extremely fluky SB wins is a really tired one. Let's have another look at Coughlin's tenure as HC with the Giants:

2004: 6-10
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8
2007: 10-6
2008: 12-4
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6
2011: 9-7
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10

I'm sorry, but the Steelers' fanbase absolutely would NOT tolerate only four 10+ win seasons and only six seasons above .500 out of twelve, two lightning-in-a-bottle, stars-in-perfect-alignment SB wins or not. Especially in a division that is generally extremely competitive and where it more often than not takes 11 wins or more just to secure a wildcard berth.

Hell, people were completely losing their shit and practically jumping out of high windows after the Steelers had back-to-back 8-8 seasons in '12 and '13.

[polamalubeast]

And chances are they'd still wind up with a largely mediocre product on it.

The (largely false, IMO) narrative of Coughlin being this great HC due to two extremely fluky SB wins is a really tired one. Let's have another look at Coughlin's tenure as HC with the Giants:

2004: 6-10
2005: 11-5
2006: 8-8
2007: 10-6
2008: 12-4
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6
2011: 9-7
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10

I'm sorry, but the Steelers' fanbase absolutely would NOT tolerate only four 10+ win seasons and only six seasons above .500 out of twelve, two lightning-in-a-bottle, stars-in-perfect-alignment SB wins or not. Especially in a division that is generally extremely competitive and where it more often than not takes 11 wins or more just to secure a wildcard berth.

Hell, people were completely losing their shit and practically jumping out of high windows after the Steelers had back-to-back 8-8 seasons in '12 and '13.

I mean, I think more than Jerry Reese(their GM during most of the Coughlin tenure) was the problem with the Giants, especially in the last few years...The talent between the steelers and the giants were not comparable.

The first 8 years of Coughlin with the Giants were comparable to Bill Parcells in terms of win/loss record and Super Bowl win.

[Mojouw]

Seriously, it's possible to explain away so much that it becomes denial that there is even a problem. That's step #1 lol. Admit you have a problem. We do indeed disagree and I also respect your points individually, but there's too much smoke for me to keep denying there's fire.

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However you want to look at it, there's 3 playoff wins since they went to the Super Bowl in 2010.

Fair enough. But what I'm saying is do you follow any of the 31 other teams as closely? If the answer is "yes" then we would have a good comparison for levels of drama. But I'm going to guess the answer is "no". Therefore we have little basis for comparison.

The conclusion that the Steelers are too dramatic appears to come from two places. Fans feelings regarding player actions when compared to the hazy memories of yesteryear. The second is national media talking heads advancing the narrative. So, ask yourself what does a guy like Cowherd know about the Steelers? How many games has he even watched? Can he name more than 5 players on the team? Can he identify two key team strengths and two weaknesses? Or does he just need any easy narrative to fill time and drive debate? Remember Cowherd and many others that comment on the NFL are not journalists. He was and still is a sports radio host who knows one good trick - say something controversial and exxagerate it as much as you can to make people call in.

[DesertSteel]

Fair enough. But what I'm saying is do you follow any of the 31 other teams as closely? If the answer is "yes" then we would have a good comparison for levels of drama. But I'm going to guess the answer is "no". Therefore we have little basis for comparison.

The conclusion that the Steelers are too dramatic appears to come from two places. Fans feelings regarding player actions when compared to the hazy memories of yesteryear. The second is national media talking heads advancing the narrative. So, ask yourself what does a guy like Cowherd know about the Steelers? How many games has he even watched? Can he name more than 5 players on the team? Can he identify two key team strengths and two weaknesses? Or does he just need any easy narrative to fill time and drive debate? Remember Cowherd and many others that comment on the NFL are not journalists. He was and still is a sports radio host who knows one good trick - say something controversial and exxagerate it as much as you can to make people call in.
I'm a general fan - I'd say much more than many on here. To that end, I stay up on other teams in the news. Certainly, there is more exposure for a handful of teams (Steelers, Patriots, Cowboys, Giants, Packers, Seahawks, etc.). Winning cures all that ails. Drama + winning = Yipee! Drama + playoff exits = Questions??? That may not be fair, but it's reality. Even Steelers' players are speaking out on all the drama (last year's playoff promises, James Harrison, Bell's holdout, etc.). Are the players inside the locker room also blowing it out of proportion?

[Mojouw]

I'm a general fan - I'd say much more than many on here. To that end, I stay up on other teams in the news. Certainly, there is more exposure for a handful of teams (Steelers, Patriots, Cowboys, Giants, Packers, Seahawks, etc.). Winning cures all that ails. Drama + winning = Yipee! Drama + playoff exits = Questions??? That may not be fair, but it's reality. Even Steelers' players are speaking out on all the drama (last year's playoff promises, James Harrison, Bell's holdout, etc.). Are the players inside the locker room also blowing it out of proportion?

Right. But we are talking past each other. I want to leave aside the issue of what the impact of "drama" is on a team. That is not my focus. Because the debate has shifted on this thread and the board in general as to what level of drama the Steelers are experiencing. There is a hypothesis that they experience far more than other NFL teams. I completely reject that idea. I propose instead the idea that fans of each individual team are so focused on that team and how it compares to some idealized version of a team that their comparisons lose context and focus. Additionally, all NFL teams experience over the course of a season or so, equivalent levels of drama.

Now, we can discuss the impact of drama as kind of a separate issue. In other words it is a two stage thing for me. Step One - Assess whether the Steelers experience significantly more or less drama than the other NFL teams. Step Two - Assess how well the Steelers deal with drama compared to the other NFL teams.

I am willing to argue very strongly that the Steelers experience an equivalent level of drama as any other NFL team. Moving to the impact of that drama, well that becomes far far harder to asses. What are the assessment tools? Win lose record? Some vague sense of the impact? Number of blog posts about the issues? Player quotes from immediately after a season-ending lose? All of these are possible assessment tools, but there seems to be no agreed to standard. Likely because the whole thing is totally intangible and impossible to measure.

[DesertSteel]

Right. But we are talking past each other. I want to leave aside the issue of what the impact of "drama" is on a team. That is not my focus. Because the debate has shifted on this thread and the board in general as to what level of drama the Steelers are experiencing. There is a hypothesis that they experience far more than other NFL teams. I completely reject that idea. I propose instead the idea that fans of each individual team are so focused on that team and how it compares to some idealized version of a team that their comparisons lose context and focus. Additionally, all NFL teams experience over the course of a season or so, equivalent levels of drama.

Now, we can discuss the impact of drama as kind of a separate issue. In other words it is a two stage thing for me. Step One - Assess whether the Steelers experience significantly more or less drama than the other NFL teams. Step Two - Assess how well the Steelers deal with drama compared to the other NFL teams.

I am willing to argue very strongly that the Steelers experience an equivalent level of drama as any other NFL team. Moving to the impact of that drama, well that becomes far far harder to asses. What are the assessment tools? Win lose record? Some vague sense of the impact? Number of blog posts about the issues? Player quotes from immediately after a season-ending lose? All of these are possible assessment tools, but there seems to be no agreed to standard. Likely because the whole thing is totally intangible and impossible to measure.
We probably are talking past a bit. Your level of detail often includes multiple points and I'm more of a one point at a time poster. That is likely the breakdown. As soon as you make a point I want to respond, but then you make 2-4 other points. So I take that on me :).

My point is that if the players are talking about it then there is too much drama! The OL going off on Bell was not the media's fault. Now whether it is always more than other teams, I cannot say empirically. Perhaps there should be a weekly Power Drama Ranking. (I would bet you $100 that the Steelers would come in #1 - regardless of who did the voting.)

You do an excellent job of dispelling perception - but at the end of the day, perception is still reality (in spite of your valiant efforts) :).

[Mojouw]

We probably are talking past a bit. Your level of detail often includes multiple points and I'm more of a one point at a time poster. That is likely the breakdown. As soon as you make a point I want to respond, but then you make 2-4 other points. So I take that on me :).

My point is that if the players are talking about it then there is too much drama! The OL going off on Bell was not the media's fault. Now whether it is always more than other teams, I cannot say empirically. Perhaps there should be a weekly Power Drama Ranking. (I would bet you $100 that the Steelers would come in #1 - regardless of who did the voting.)

You do an excellent job of dispelling perception - but at the end of the day, perception is still reality (in spite of your valiant efforts) :).

You raise great points. And I think that it all about how each of us reacts to the events and statements.

For instance, what else are the players going to talk about? Their dogs? What they have been binging on Netflix? Even if we take the fairly obvious answer that they should fall back on some old locker room team sports cliches - that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Assume Pouncey and Foster etc closed ranks and said "We support our team mate." Would we all just rejoice and assume that Bell not coming in wasn't a distraction? I mean that just doesn't seem to be a realistic assumption. So some human beings vented some anger at a stressful workplace issue. I mean if cameras and reporters came to my workplace and asked me a series of questions about how I felt after each day, I shudder to think about what I would say sometimes. My point? Really really straightforward -- despite what the players could or should have said regarding Bell there is NO version of this where the situation isn't on their minds. And so what?

[DesertSteel]

Rules to be posted on locker room wall:

1. No threatening physical violence on reporters.
2. No throwing teammates under the bus to the media.
3. No live-streaming during coach’s speech.
4. No sleeping/snoring during position meetings.

Let’s start with those!

[86WARD]

Rules to be posted on locker room wall:

1. No threatening physical violence on reporters.
2. No throwing teammates under the bus to the media.
3. No live-streaming during coach’s speech.
4. No sleeping/snoring during position meetings.

Let’s start with those!

Lol. Perfect

[tube517]

Rules to be posted on locker room wall:

1. No threatening physical violence on reporters.
2. No throwing teammates under the bus to the media.
3. No live-streaming during coach’s speech.
4. No sleeping/snoring during position meetings.
5. Any questions from reporters about controversial penalties respond with, "Ask New York"


Let’s start with those!

Fixed! :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

No one in the NFL has produced more locker room drama the past couple years than the Steelers. I mean, last year in particular, seemed there was a story EVERY SINGLE WEEK with this team. Did the team go one week without making headlines for the wrong reason? I don't think they did.

All 32 did. WE only read, hear, and pay attention to the Steelers stories. The national talking heads put more emphasis on the teams that have the bigger fan bases. More fans equals more clicks. This stuff just bothers some fans more than others. You seem to really hate these things where I can ignore them. I only pay attention to the games. The rest is just fluff to me.


Think about it. Even on this forum we have threads dedicated to twitter feeds and social media stuff. It is our world now.

[GoSlash27]

The OL going off on Bell was not the media's fault.

DS,
I disagree on that point. It was the media going around sticking mics in their faces and asking them a constant barrage of Lev Bell questions. "How does it make you feel" "What will you say to him when he shows up" "BlahBlah said Blah Blah about Lev Bell. Do you agree", etc. They were sh^t-stirring.

[DesertSteel]

DS,
I disagree on that point. It was the media going around sticking mics in their faces and asking them a constant barrage of Lev Bell questions. "How does it make you feel" "What will you say to him when he shows up" "BlahBlah said Blah Blah about Lev Bell. Do you agree", etc. They were sh^t-stirring.
Funny how every former player disagrees with you. Those are guys who've been there.

[GoSlash27]

Funny how every former player disagrees with you. Those are guys who've been there.

"Every former player"? Not sure I understand what you mean by this. You personally asked everyone who has ever played football whether the O Line going off on Bell was the media's fault or not? Surely this is not what you mean.

And every player has been in a media "controversy" where a teammate held out? Well, I *know* that's not true. So whoever you're talking about, they haven't been there.

[Mojouw]

Funny how every former player disagrees with you. Those are guys who've been there.
You mean the former players who are paid to offer opinions on the NFL. The ones in the media? Surely they had no interest in helping to drive the controversy into another news cycle. Almost certainly the quotes from players not in the media where not selectively pulled. No way media folks called around until they found guys who said what they wanted to fit into their narrative. Not a chance. Stories are never manipulated for ratings and extra days of attention.

Look, the offensive lines ability to recognize stunts and pressures will have a far greater impact on the won loss record of the Steelers than whatever this stuff with Bell turns out to be. But here is the thing that many refuse to recognize. The NFL media is a lowest common denominator business. Most of the fans of the league can not and do not want to understand how the game is actually played and the tactics and techniques needed to win football games. They have no patience for that granular level of analysis and detail. It requires them to think. BUT — OMG did you hear what they said about Bell? What disarray and dysfunction. That people can handle. So that is what we get force fed.

[43Hitman]

You mean the former players who are paid to offer opinions on the NFL. The ones in the media? Surely they had no interest in helping to drive the controversy into another news cycle. Almost certainly the quotes from players not in the media where not selectively pulled. No way media folks called around until they found guys who said what they wanted to fit into their narrative. Not a chance. Stories are never manipulated for ratings and extra days of attention.

Look, the offensive lines ability to recognize stunts and pressures will have a far greater impact on the won loss record of the Steelers than whatever this stuff with Bell turns out to be. But here is the thing that many refuse to recognize. The NFL media is a lowest common denominator business. Most of the fans of the league can not and do not want to understand how the game is actually played and the tactics and techniques needed to win football games. They have no patience for that granular level of analysis and detail. It requires them to think. BUT — OMG did you hear what they said about Bell? What disarray and dysfunction. That people can handle. So that is what we get force fed.

That is probably why we don't get in depth analysis shows anymore too. Which sucks because I used to really love NFL Matchup that had Jaws, and Merril Hoge hosting.

[GoSlash27]

You mean the former players who are paid to offer opinions on the NFL. The ones in the media?
I'm assuming that DS wouldn't offer up such an obviously flawed argument.

[Mojouw]

That is probably why we don't get in depth analysis shows anymore too. Which sucks because I used to really love NFL Matchup that had Jaws, and Merril Hoge hosting.

Yup. Those were great. Now fans just figure that whatever coach talks the toughest and whatever team has the guys with the best daily fantasy points forecast will win. As a result all the talk is driven towards who is and isn't "elite" and what NFL team is "distracted" or not.

Meanwhile, if you search things out...they are out there...but not easy to find...some people are breaking down why teams are or are not winning football games. Oddly enough, they rarely mention fantasy points scored, locker-room distractions, cheerleader coaches, or any of the stuff spewed on ESPN, NFL Network, PFT, or Twitter.

Wish I could figure out if there was a connection there....

[86WARD]

If Coughlin would be HC with the steelers, no doubt the steelers would have more discipline off the field!

I do not think Coughlin would have tolerated Martavis Bryant's comments on JuJu after his draft or during the season last year!

If Tomlin was let go this instant and Coughlin (Jags Era) came into this team tomorrow, the team would implode.

[43Hitman]

Yup. Those were great. Now fans just figure that whatever coach talks the toughest and whatever team has the guys with the best daily fantasy points forecast will win. As a result all the talk is driven towards who is and isn't "elite" and what NFL team is "distracted" or not.

Meanwhile, if you search things out...they are out there...but not easy to find...some people are breaking down why teams are or are not winning football games. Oddly enough, they rarely mention fantasy points scored, locker-room distractions, cheerleader coaches, or any of the stuff spewed on ESPN, NFL Network, PFT, or Twitter.

Wish I could figure out if there was a connection there....


Here's an article written in June of last year that delves into this a little. I still miss the show contrary to what ESPN or the writer of this article thinks.


“The matchup show was on the air before I started at ESPN. If I do it or not in the future, it will still be a great show. There were times people said ‘The fans don’t care about those Xs and Os.’ That is bull! People care about football. We have so many shows on, uh, all television networks, that do nothing but have a bunch of guys throwing words out there. We use the video, we use the coaches’ tape on the matchup show. There’s a reason it’s the longest-running studio show on television, because of that. It’s unique, it’s different. People at the league, people at the network said it would fail, but here it is, the longest-running show on television, because people want more.”Jaworski then continued with a shot at screaming personalities.


http://awfulannouncing.com/espn/ron-jaworski-speaks-espn-future-takes-shots-debate-shows.html