Big Ben: The double edged sword

[StillCurtains]

Hello All!

Here we are! The start of yet another new season. This is yet the start of another season since 2009, when we have had the "sky is the limit" moniker next to the Steelers offense. At that time we had guys such as: Willie Parker, Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace and Heath Miller to name a few.

The following season in 2010, We have had Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Hines Ward, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders and Heath Miller. The moniker of being one of the NFL's top offenses with "the sky is the limit" continued to be touted.

We are now 8 and 9 years removed, from when we first began to hear this being said about the offense. It also needs to be mentioned that it has been said every year since 2009. We have had 2 offensive coordinators from 2009 to 2017 in Arians and Haley. Despite the offensive talent, neither one has been able to field an offense that scored 30ppg.

Both coordinators have done well between the 20's compiling impressive yardage, but have struggled in point production in the Red Zone. 3rd down percentage has never been very high either. The Steelers over the past 5 years have been a team that has struggled with overall discipline and defensive consistency and communication.

I have a great appreciation for what Ben has done for this organization. He has a great drive to win, winning us 2 Superbowls and our first one since the 1979 Season. We could not have won those 2 titles without him. However, it's becoming more apparent that we also can't get over the hump with him.

There is a reason why Ben is not considered a top 5 quarterback. He's never been a film guy. He's never been one to spend extra time with his other targets besides his favorite one. He's never been a thinker's man quarterback. He's never played the game in inches or high percentages. He doesn't think in terms of throwing a 3 yard slant, on 3rd and 2 in the 1st quarter to get a first down. He has no realization that such a play so early in the game, can play such a huge role in winning decisively.

Ben is a sandlot guy that needs the huge play. There is no patience to his game. Ben will go deep on 3rd and 2 instead of settling for the high percentage, minimal yardage needed. This is what separates him from Brady, Rodgers and Brees. They play the game in inches and high percentages. They are not sucked in to making the big play to win games.

This is the reason that their teams usually win decisively, whether at home, or on the road. Have we had issues with discipline as well as our defense over the last several years? Yes we have! However, it doesn't negate the fact that on occasion, the defense has been good enough as it was yesterday.

I think it's time that many of us come to realize, that while we can't win without Ben, he also makes it very difficult to get over the hump with him. If we want to continue to wonder why the Steelers struggle with inferior competition, ending up in constant dogfights, the evidence of that was shown yesterday.

If we're honest, it's not the only time that we have witnessed to it.

[polamalubeast]

Ben is considered a top 5 QB by the league .... just stop...

And great timing to make this thread

[Mojouw]

Did you watch Rodgers last night? I don't think he completed a single high percentage throw in the entire second half.

What separates Brady and Rodgers from everyone else is that they give you the same performance week in and week out with almost no variation.

Ben can do what he did yesterday or throw 6 TDs and go 500+ yards. Those other guys have the occasional clunker as well, but Ben has more. That's his problem. He has 2-3 games per season where he kinda just "checks out".

As for being dependent on the "big play" there are many guys wearing ugly gold jackets that were dependent on the big play.

I mean you want a "by the book" QB? Fine. Then the Steelers lose the 2008 SB. Because only Ben and a few other guys let that 2nd throw to Santonio rip.

[Fire Goodell]

He's Brett Favre. Will make throws that will make people go "Wow!" a lot of times. But 2-3 times a year he has those WTF games.

[GoSlash27]

(stuff)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/80/73/a28073371af669fa22ae7d30433c862e.jpg

Or... Sometimes he just has a bad day ;)

Best,
-Slashy

[StillCurtains]

Did you watch Rodgers last night? I don't think he completed a single high percentage throw in the entire second half.

What separates Brady and Rodgers from everyone else is that they give you the same performance week in and week out with almost no variation.

Ben can do what he did yesterday or throw 6 TDs and go 500+ yards. Those other guys have the occasional clunker as well, but Ben has more. That's his problem. He has 2-3 games per season where he kinda just "checks out".

As for being dependent on the "big play" there are many guys wearing ugly gold jackets that were dependent on the big play.

I mean you want a "by the book" QB? Fine. Then the Steelers lose the 2008 SB. Because only Ben and a few other guys let that 2nd throw to Santonio rip.

I have stated how we can’t win without him. We also can’t get over the hump with him. This isn’t about being a by the book QB! Ben is an aggressive QB! A go for the juggler QB!

The truth is, guys like Brady and Brees are aggressive as well! They go for the kill while not turning the ball over. They are aggressive while playing in the confines of the game to help their teams win. They know turnovers are killers. They use intelligence by looking at the game in simplicity.

They know that when the game calls for playing by inches and percentages, you do it. The understand that the simplicity of possession extends their aggressive gameplan, as well as decreases the opposition’s chances of winning without possession.

There are times when defenses are not good enough to stop explosive plays, which result in 4-play 80 yard drives for TD’s. There are other times when defenses are too stout, which forces 12 play 80 yard drives for TD’s.

The problem is Ben doesn’t have the patience to recognize the latter, which puts us in dog fights. The objective is to get 7, no matter how short or long your possession is.

Anytime you come away with 7 puts pressure on the opposition. When Ben realizes that it always doesn’t have to happen in 5 plays or less, the less we will have to continue to watch the games in doubt, with 2 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter..

[Mojouw]

I have stated how we can’t win without him. We also can’t get over the hump with him. This isn’t about being a by the book QB! Ben is an aggressive QB! A go for the juggler QB!

The truth is, guys like Brady and Brees are aggressive as well! They go for the kill while not turning the ball over. They are aggressive while playing in the confines of the game to help their teams win. They know turnovers are killers. They use intelligence by looking at the game in simplicity.

They know that when the game calls for playing by inches and percentages, you do it. The understand that the simplicity of possession extends their aggressive gameplan, as well as decreases the opposition’s chances of winning without possession.

There are times when defenses are not good enough to stop explosive plays, which result in 4-play 80 yard drives for TD’s. There are other times when defenses are too stout, which forces 12 play 80 yard drives for TD’s.

The problem is Ben doesn’t have the patience to recognize the latter, which puts us in dog fights. The objective is to get 7, no matter how short or long your possession is.

Anytime you come away with 7 puts pressure on the opposition. When Ben realizes that it always doesn’t have to happen in 5 plays or less, the less we will have to continue to watch the games in doubt, with 2 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter..

So the play where Rodgers heaves it from the far hash to the near corner of the endzone against pretty decent coverage? https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/09/watch-aaron-rodgers-hits-geronimo-allison-for-packers-first-td-of-2018/ -- yeah that was safe throw.

Or the one where this happened? https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Davante-Adams-touchdown-Bears--121691853/

And that was just last night. The QB you describing exists. His name is Matt Ryan. That's what you are describing. Has the tools to make the big play but also takes the checkdown, etc etc.

You start your franchise with prime Matt Ryan. I'll start mine with prime Ben R. Wonder who wins more?

[StillCurtains]

So the play where Rodgers heaves it from the far hash to the near corner of the endzone against pretty decent coverage? https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/09/watch-aaron-rodgers-hits-geronimo-allison-for-packers-first-td-of-2018/ -- yeah that was safe throw.

Or the one where this happened? https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Davante-Adams-touchdown-Bears--121691853/

And that was just last night. The QB you describing exists. His name is Matt Ryan. That's what you are describing. Has the tools to make the big play but also takes the checkdown, etc etc.

You start your franchise with prime Matt Ryan. I'll start mine with prime Ben R. Wonder who wins more?

I’m not looking for Matt Ryan!

Also, what you seen last night is what I would expect from ANY QB with a will to win!
That is the type of performances we have seen from Ben on many occassions!

Why did we see this with such high frequency with Rodgers last night?
THEY WERE DOWN 20-0!!!!!

When you are down so big, MORE risks are taken!!!
Bigger plays are attempted to get back in the game!
You lay it all on the line to gain momentum!

You’re at a point where you’re playing with nothing to lose! There is a HUGE difference!

[Butch]

I talked to a Chiefs fan who would kill to have a QB like Ben. He hated Alex Smith because he stated that he never takes chances. Taking chances is the way you win games in the NFL.

Peyton studies film and does great as long as things go to script but when things fall apart so does Peyton's game. IMHO Ben's sandlot play style is harder to game plan for than Peyton's by the book.

Shady Brady didn't study to get better his team flat out cheated. Not hard to beat any defense when you have a microphone still working when it's supposed to cut off.

Ben had a horrible day yesterday, it happens. I trust in Ben and I still believe that he will take us to at least one more SuperBowl win before all is said and done. I damn sure aint jumpin' ship because he had a bad day.

[polamalubeast]

Roethlisberger is a gunslinger

Of course, games like that can happen when you're a gunslinger

The important thing is that it does not happen too often and it does not happen at the worst possible time...The thing I do not want from a QB is to be too conservative like Alex Smith.

Rodgers, Brady and Brees are the only ones who are better than Ben.So you're crazy if you think Roethlisberger is not in the top 5 ...

You would not have made this thread if Ben would have been average yesterday ...

And how many QB make this play?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_v5sJno338

[Butch]

Nate Washington was Great with us and ok with Tennessee. Randle El was Great with Ben and disappeared in Washington. I would argue that Plex was better with us than he was with the gmen. Santonio disappeared when he left, as did Wallace. My point...Ben has had one helluva supporting cast to hold him up...or have they?

[GBMelBlount]

I feel pretty good right now, knowing that the reason for our TIE was a less than stellar performance in ridiculous weather by our HOF QB.

Otherwise, our team showed they have the elements of a Superbowl winner imo.

Give them a month or two to gel and only a few more hurricanes and I think we will be fine.

18-0-1.

[Crow-Magnon]

I'm a Ravens fan, so take this for what it's worth.

Since 2000, what other QB's (besides Tom Brady) have been in, and won, more than one SB? Eli Manning, Peyton Manning...and Ben Roethlisberger.

'Nuff said.

[polamalubeast]

I'm a Ravens fan, so take this for what it's worth.

Since 2000, what other QB's (besides Tom Brady) have been in, and won, more than one SB? Eli Manning, Peyton Manning...and Ben Roethlisberger.

'Nuff said.

And in the regular season,Ben has 135-63-1 after 199 starts!

[Fire Goodell]

I'm a Ravens fan, so take this for what it's worth.

Since 2000, what other QB's (besides Tom Brady) have been in, and won, more than one SB? Eli Manning, Peyton Manning...and Ben Roethlisberger.

'Nuff said.

Congrats to you guys, ravens looked tough yesterday. Btw what ever happened to JonM (Other ravens fans who was always active on our forum)

[StillCurtains]

I talked to a Chiefs fan who would kill to have a QB like Ben. He hated Alex Smith because he stated that he never takes chances. Taking chances is the way you win games in the NFL.

Peyton studies film and does great as long as things go to script but when things fall apart so does Peyton's game. IMHO Ben's sandlot play style is harder to game plan for than Peyton's by the book.

Shady Brady didn't study to get better his team flat out cheated. Not hard to beat any defense when you have a microphone still working when it's supposed to cut off.

Ben had a horrible day yesterday, it happens. I trust in Ben and I still believe that he will take us to at least one more SuperBowl win before all is said and done. I damn sure aint jumpin' ship because he had a bad day.

I’m not asking Ben to be conservative. The problem is his aggressiveness borders on the lines of carelessness. You have to know when to turn your aggression into decisiveness and precision at the right times in the game. You have to know at what point in the game when you keep the play alive for a 28 yard gain, and understanding there are times where getting the necessary 2 yards for a first is paramount to secure a win.

In regards to Brady, I can’t stand him just as anyone else can’t, but if you judge his play on cheating, you don’t know what you’re watching. He is an aggressive QB as well. He also knows important points in the game to take the short yardage to retain possession. Once you retain possession, you go back to being aggressive while using clock and scoring 7.

That’s the winning formula. Make your possessions count by execution and scoring 7. It makes it almost impossible to lose. The opposing team not only has less time, but they have to match your possession with 7 of their own.

[Crow-Magnon]

Congrats to you guys, ravens looked tough yesterday. Btw what ever happened to JonM (Other ravens fans who was always active on our forum)

Don't know about JonM. Hooefully he's still around.

Ravens looked awesome yesterday on all fronts. Offense, defense and ST. But, it's only one game. Looking at the retooling and through camp and the preseason, I had an inkling they may be a contender. But I've seen a lot of contenders in Weeks 1-5 that faded bad down the stretch. One game does not a season make.

[teegre]

Congrats to you guys, ravens looked tough yesterday. Btw what ever happened to JonM (Other ravens fans who was always active on our forum)

I text Jon every day. :nod:

[Butch]

I’m not asking Ben to be conservative. The problem is his aggressiveness borders on the lines of carelessness. You have to know when to turn your aggression into decisiveness and precision at the right times in the game. You have to know at what point in the game when you keep the play alive for a 28 yard gain, and understanding there are times where getting the necessary 2 yards for a first is paramount to secure a win.

In regards to Brady, I can’t stand him just as anyone else can’t, but if you judge his play on cheating, you don’t know what you’re watching. He is an aggressive QB as well. He also knows important points in the game to take the short yardage to retain possession. Once you retain possession, you go back to being aggressive while using clock and scoring 7.

That’s the winning formula. Make your possessions count by execution and scoring 7. It makes it almost impossible to lose. The opposing team not only has less time, but they have to match your possession with 7 of their own.

No I know what I am watching. You can keep your head in the sand and say it aint so but shady brady would be average at best without cheating. He and his team got away with cheating early in his career and he has reaped the rewards ever since.

You say you can't stand brady as anyone else while dogging Ben, but you are lying to yourself. You obviously revere him more highly than I do. Maybe it was just a bad choice of words on your part? IDK I would rather lose with Ben than win with shady brady any day of the week.

[teegre]

18-0-1.

:nod:

[DesertSteel]

No I know what I am watching. You can keep your head in the sand and say it aint so but shady brady would be average at best without cheating. He and his team got away with cheating early in his career and he has reaped the rewards ever since.

You say you can't stand brady as anyone else while dogging Ben, but you are lying to yourself. You obviously revere him more highly than I do. Maybe it was just a bad choice of words on your part? IDK I would rather lose with Ben than win with shady brady any day of the week.

Really?? Not me. Not for a minute. I'd take Brady's 5 Super Bowls with the Steelers over Ben's 2 without even thinking about it. Ben hasn't been a choir boy you know.

[Butch]

Really?? Not me. Not for a minute. I'd take Brady's 5 Super Bowls with the Steelers over Ben's 2 without even thinking about it. Ben hasn't been a choir boy you know.
He didn't cheat

[DesertSteel]

He didn't cheat
Yeah (alleged) rape isn't nearly as bad as deflating the air out of some footballs.

[Butch]

Yeah (alleged) rape isn't nearly as bad as deflating the air out of some footballs.
Key word alleged and I aint talking about simply letting air out of a football

[DesertSteel]

Key word alleged and I aint talking about simply letting air out of a football
Whatever the case, I'll take 5 to go with the 4 from the 70's any day. If Brady was in Pittsburgh he would have been doing it the Steelers way. Belicheat is the mastermind behind all the cheating in NE.

[Butch]

Whatever the case, I'll take 5 to go with the 4 from the 70's any day. If Brady was in Pittsburgh he would have been doing it the Steelers way. Belicheat is the mastermind behind all the cheating in NE.
Yep Belicheat was the mastermind and Shady Brady knew about it and benefited from it. I'll take Ben's 2 legit wins over ***** every day

[st33lersguy]

4 QBs have won 100 games in their first 150 starts. 3 of them are the 3 QB in NFL history that have won 4 Super Bowls, the 4th is Ben.

Also after the Steelers were backed up by a holding penalty in Super Bowl 43, Ben's sandlot style of play prevented a sack inside his own 5 with less than 3 minutes left. And yes he is a top 5 QB in this league, and a surefire Hall of Famer, and the biggest reason the Steelers have made the postseason the past 4 years

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah (alleged) rape isn't nearly as bad as deflating the air out of some footballs.

alleged rape from who, the woman at Lake Tahoe who later admitted to LYING about it?

[DesertSteel]

Long live homerism.

[Butch]

Long live homerism.
LOL litterally,

Oh man you burned us with that one

[fansince'76]

Gonna be a long week...

[86WARD]

I’m a Rodgers fan and respect what he did on Monday, but let’s be honest. He threw a 10 yard pass to Randall Cobb. Cobb did all the work. That was way more Cobb than anything to do with Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t win that game. Cobb did.

[43Hitman]

Rodgers was high as gas during this post game interview.

https://www.facebook.com/NFLMemez/videos/346023882804402/

[steel striker]

I’m a Rodgers fan and respect what he did on Monday, but let’s be honest. He threw a 10 yard pass to Randall Cobb. Cobb did all the work. That was way more Cobb than anything to do with Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t win that game. Cobb did. Bingo and, the media slurps him and, Brady so much it makes me sick!

[SteelersCanadian]

I’m a Rodgers fan and respect what he did on Monday, but let’s be honest. He threw a 10 yard pass to Randall Cobb. Cobb did all the work. That was way more Cobb than anything to do with Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t win that game. Cobb did.

He hit Cobb on one leg while scrambling to his off-side in a rapidly closing window against an athletic coverage linebacker.

He did a hell'uva lot more than flip a duck to Cobb 10-yards off the line of scrimmage.

[86WARD]

He hit Cobb on one leg while scrambling to his off-side in a rapidly closing window against an athletic coverage linebacker.

He did a hell'uva lot more than flip a duck to Cobb 10-yards off the line of scrimmage.

Lol. He wasn’t scrambling. Two hops to the left isn’t scrambling and he pretty much threw a ten yard dart to Cobb who ran 65 yards and made the moves to score. The pocket/window was far, far, far from closing in on him. It’s more a Cobb victory than a Rodgers one and I’m probably a bigger Rodgers fan than most here. Cobb was able to make the move and use his blocks to get in the end zone.

Rodgers is as much a drama queen as Ben is.

[Mojouw]

Lol. He wasn’t scrambling. Two hops to the left isn’t scrambling and he pretty much threw a ten yard dart to Cobb who ran 65 yards and made the moves to score. The pocket/window was far, far, far from closing in on him. It’s more a Cobb victory than a Rodgers one and I’m probably a bigger Rodgers fan than most here. Cobb was able to make the move and use his blocks to get in the end zone.

Rodgers is as much a drama queen as Ben is.

Sorry. None of those words are true. There is a reason that people are going absolutely bonkers over what Rodgers did in the second half. It was amazing. Best injured performance since Emmitt Smith and his shoulder or maybe when Rivers played on no knees.

Rodgers leads Cobb away from the defense. Watch the play several times. As soon as Rodgers slides/limps out of the pocket, his receivers start adjusting routes for the scramble drill. Most stay on the left side of the hashes, anticipating that Rodgers will want to set and throw from that side of the field. Cobb sticks a foot in the ground and starts back to the right. At this point the designed portion of the play is over and has been since Rodgers limped to his left. Now, Rodgers anticipates that Cobb is going to break back to the right and throws it even further to the right, leading Cobb into oceans of open grass as the entire Bears defense had committed to the pass rush or the action of the other receivers. That is a lot of pre-catch "stuff" read and processed by the QB to "create" a situation where all Cobb had to do was catch a ball on the run and waltz in for the score.

It looks at first glance like a ton of Cobb, but Rodgers did several things that made that play possible while not really putting weight on one of his legs. Additionally the trust between Cobb and Rodgers is great to see on this play. Cobb has no idea what is to his right or behind him. But he trusts Rodgers to lead him there with the throw and it not turn into a get my face broken Anquan Boldin style situation. Much of that can not be coached and that is why people are going bananas over this.

[86WARD]

Sorry there’s a lot true. Rodgers didn’t scramble and granted he made a nice throw and created the opening, Cobb was able to get open and took that ball to the house avoiding three potential tacklers. Rodgers made a great play and throw. The knob slobbing that he’s receiving for it doesn’t fit the accomplishment.

[analyst69]

Alleged rape that he said he would fight to clear his name....right up to the point he settled out of court to stop the case. If you remember Ben's attorney wanted the case moved and the judge wouldn't. Next thing you know Benny settles out of court.

[SteelersCanadian]

Lol. He wasn’t scrambling. Two hops to the left isn’t scrambling and he pretty much threw a ten yard dart to Cobb who ran 65 yards and made the moves to score. The pocket/window was far, far, far from closing in on him. It’s more a Cobb victory than a Rodgers one and I’m probably a bigger Rodgers fan than most here. Cobb was able to make the move and use his blocks to get in the end zone.

Rodgers is as much a drama queen as Ben is.

This just isn't true, man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoXal3FPNYE

The Bears send five. The interior of the line actually does a decent job which allows Rodgers to "hop", as you'd call it, to his left and find Cobb on a scramble drill. The receivers have already adjusted to Rodgers' movements. The window was absolutely closing on Cobb. I was wrong before about the coverage linebacker part -- it's actually free safety Eddie Jackson in coverage. Look how close Jackson is to Cobb in the clip.

https://www.packers.com/video/can-t-miss-play-qb-rodgers-hits-wr-cobb-for-75-yard-td

Cobb sees Rodgers begin to break the pocket and adjusts back outside to allow for a window. Cobb's original route looked like a crosser but was blanketed by Jackson. Eddie was just unable to lock down the second-move that Cobb adjusts to mid-route. Rodgers fits the ball into about a 5-inch window. Really, go back and look at just how close Jackson gets to the ball. He's a cats whisker away from knocking it down.

I'm not going to disagree with you when you say you're a Rodgers fan. I am too. He's the greatest quarterback I've ever seen play the game - full stop. I just think you're underestimating what it took from Rodgers to get this play to work, particularly the accuracy and drive on the ball necessary - one on leg mind you - to get it to Cobb there. It's an unbelievable play by Randall in the open field but Rodgers puts the ball in the absolute perfect spot after sustaining a serious knee injury.

It was remarkable.

[Fire Goodell]

da bears suck

[slippy]

well. back to the point of this thread.

it seems what everyone is saying is ben is having more bad games than we can ever remember. he's getting old, it's sad an troubling.

but i think he's got some great games left!!!

[Born2Steel]

I remember when TB was "washed up" and couldn't stay healthy. I still remember a game vs the Jets when TB's backup was getting killed and the defense was starting to fatigue and it looked like another disappointing loss. Bradshaw came in and led us to 3 2nd half TDs and we won that game. As great as I felt after that game, being a kid and wanting 'my guys' to stay young and play forever, I don't remember TB playing in another game after that or not winning one anyway. It's the same way with Ben now. He's become 'our guy' and we want to keep that going. Ben can still win us a championship but you see the cracks starting to appear. He's a HoFer, a Ring of Honor player, and will always be a Steeler great. So quit the bashing and cheer 'our guys' to another SB win. Before it really is too late.

[GoSlash27]

it seems what everyone is saying is ben is having more bad games than we can ever remember.

Slippy,
I haven't seen anybody saying that.

Best,
-Slashy

[43Hitman]

I remember when TB was "washed up" and couldn't stay healthy. I still remember a game vs the Jets when TB's backup was getting killed and the defense was starting to fatigue and it looked like another disappointing loss. Bradshaw came in and led us to 3 2nd half TDs and we won that game. As great as I felt after that game, being a kid and wanting 'my guys' to stay young and play forever, I don't remember TB playing in another game after that or not winning one anyway. It's the same way with Ben now. He's become 'our guy' and we want to keep that going. Ben can still win us a championship but you see the cracks starting to appear. He's a HoFer, a Ring of Honor player, and will always be a Steeler great. So quit the bashing and cheer 'our guys' to another SB win. Before it really is too late.


Good post!

[FrancoLambert]

Double edged sword all right.

Sharp edge: Ben can play great and lead his team to incredible victories.

Dull edge: Ben can play poorly and give games away to teams we have no business losing to.

Fortunately, Ben's sharp edge shows up more.

[86WARD]

Double edged sword all right.

Sharp edge: Ben can play great and lead his team to incredible victories.

Dull edge: Ben can play poorly and give games away to teams we have no business losing to.

Fortunately, Ben's sharp edge shows up more.

Exactly. For each one of those horrible interceptions he throws, he makes 2-3 GREAT plays in return. That's just the type of guy he is. Favre was the same way.

[RunNGun]

If Ben were to have another performance like last week in tomorrow's game, do we have a QB controversy?

[43Hitman]

If Ben were to have another performance like last week in tomorrow's game, do we have a QB controversy?

Absolutely not. It would take more than half a season of bad play before we had a controversy.

[polamalubeast]

If Ben were to have another performance like last week in tomorrow's game, do we have a QB controversy?

It would be a lack of respect if Roethlisberger is benched .....

I know it's not that you say, but I do not think that's going to happen, especially with the critics that the Giants had after having benched Eli Manning last season ...

[86WARD]

If Ben were to have another performance like last week in tomorrow's game, do we have a QB controversy?

Not even close

[teegre]

If Ben were to have another performance like last week in tomorrow's game, do we have a QB controversy?

Will we have... for some, we already do.

[Edman]

Cleveland last week was a BIG reality check.

While I'm sure everyone is rooting for Ben to do well, at the same time I believe there is a tiny subconscious thought permeating among Steeler Nation that maybe its time to begin moving on as soon as possible. Nobody will dare admit it, but I'm sure that is what people are thinking, especially after failing to beat New England last year and seeing a 13-3 season go up in smoke against the Jaguars and Ben's putrid performance last week. For a team with Super Bowl aspirations, they can't afford to be waiting on Ben to get it together for a few games or keep throwing up vomit. Todd Haley is gone. It's Ben's Offense 100%.

Let's be real and honest here. Ben isn't going to play forever. Yeah, Ben said he wants to play 3-5 more years, but here comes the elephant in that statement: Nobody said those 3-5 more years were going to be at a high level, and no one said those 3-5 years were going to be successful for the Steelers. This is beginning to remind me of Brett Favre's last years in Green Bay. Favre was the best thing to happen to Green Bay in years. Packer fans kept holding on to him, holding out hope that Brett will take them back to the top, but it never did because Favre's skills were declining and became excessively sloppy and turnover prone. Brett literally threw away a NFC Championship game at home. Brett also developed a diva attitude and thought he was untouchable in the organization. He could talk and announce retirement repeatedly and hold the Packers FO and coaches hostage.

Ben practiced Friday and will start Sunday. I believe there's a load of pressure on Ben to perform tomorrow. If he is anything resembling underwhelming and/or the Steelers lose to Kansas City, it will only make "the talk" louder.

Ben needs to destroy Kansas City big time.

[RunNGun]

I have to disagree. He's been on a downward spiral now for the past couple seasons. I don't think any fan can question that. He's not getting any younger or better with age. You also have to question whether or not his heart is fully in it. The clock is ticking for Big Ben. Back to back games of 3 or more ints will really make these coaches take a hard look at Rudolph or Dobbs, imo. It may be a slap in the face to Ben, but the NFL is a business. If the coaches feel someome else puts us in a better situation to win games, then I don't see them hesitating.

Now, with all that being said, I could easily see him turn it around this week, and have a great game and everyone forgets about his awful week 1 outing.

[43Hitman]

You also have to question whether or not his heart is fully in it.

Lets not get ridiculously hyperbolic or anything. :coffee:

[slippy]

yinz are otta yer minds!

ben would have to have a five game losing streak, that was mostly hiss fault, to be benched.

even at 2-6, i still think he starts game 9.

[RunNGun]

Lets not get ridiculously hyperbolic or anything. :coffee:

I'm not just talking the Browns game. We haven't seen the same Ben we're accustomed to seeing for a couple seasons now. Him having contemplated retirement has to make someone wonder how much will power he has left in the tank to keep playing football. Sure, he says all the right things, but actions speak a lot louder than words. No hyperbole here, just stating my observation.

[GoSlash27]

He's been on a downward spiral now for the past couple seasons. I don't think any fan can question that.
*Raises hand* I can question that. I'm lookin' at his stats on NFL.com, and I don't see anything to indicate a "downward spiral". In fact, 2017 was one of his best years unless I'm reading these numbers wrong.

[Mojouw]

This has run right off the rails.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[43Hitman]

This has run right off the rails.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sure has. Despite facts staring them right in the face(if they bothered to look) they continue with this narrative that he's washed up. Or that his heart isn't into it anymore.:cuckoo::willy:

[Mojouw]

Sure has. Despite facts staring them right in the face(if they bothered to look) they continue with this narrative that he's washed up. Or that his heart isn't into it anymore.:cuckoo::willy:

Fans like to worry. I dunno that's all I got. I mean u know I tune in each week worrying about how they'll lose.

[polamalubeast]

4 of his 6 pro bowl has been in his last 4 seasons.

I know the pro bowl do not say everything, but come on, to say that he is on the decline and his heart is no longer there, it's ridiculous.He was one of the best QB in the second half of the season last year.

For the decline, I heard that a lot in the last 5 years at least ...

[pczach]

Double edged sword all right.

Sharp edge: Ben can play great and lead his team to incredible victories.

Dull edge: Ben can play poorly and give games away to teams we have no business losing to.

Fortunately, Ben's sharp edge shows up more.




It's like Terry. He had a lot of clunker games, but who played better in big games than he did? You don't just find HOF quarterbacks at the supermarket. These guys are very rare.

For fans to not understand how fortunate we have been to have both of these guys as our quarterbacks with all the garbage that was on the field in between them is baffling to me.

[Edman]

It's like Terry. He had a lot of clunker games, but who played better in big games than he did? You don't just find HOF quarterbacks at the supermarket. These guys are very rare.

For fans to not understand how fortunate we have been to have both of these guys as our quarterbacks with all the garbage that was on the field in between them is baffling to me.

Just because the Steelers went 25 years without a quarterback doesn't mean we have to excuse Ben's performance Sunday. Not even Kordell played that horribly.

Ben, Terry, Neil, Brister regardless of who's under center. Five turnovers and nearly blowing a game all on your own is unacceptable. People are coming down extra hard this time, Especially when its been commonly blamed Steelers' failures all on Todd Haley. That he's the only one holding Ben and the Offense back, that he's the problem. Well, he's gone.

First game without Haley and Ben one of the worst performances of his career, arguably worse than Jacksonville. Time (and the excuses) are running out on Ben and this team.

[polamalubeast]

What excuses????...Ben is like 135-63-1 in his career ..... He does not need an excuse!

His stats and win / loss record speak for themselves

I mean, Terry Bradshaw had an atrocious game in San Diego in 1979 ... bad game happens sometimes ... the important thing is not at the worst possible time.

[43Hitman]

Just because the Steelers went 25 years without a quarterback doesn't mean we have to excuse Ben's performance Sunday. Not even Kordell played that horribly.

Ben, Terry, Neil, Brister regardless of who's under center. Five turnovers and nearly blowing a game all on your own is unacceptable. People are coming down extra hard this time, Especially when its been commonly blamed Steelers' failures all on Todd Haley. That he's the only one holding Ben and the Offense back, that he's the problem. Well, he's gone.

First game without Haley and Ben one of the worst performances of his career, arguably worse than Jacksonville. Time (and the excuses) are running out on Ben and this team.

Corky? Really? Corky gave away more games than Rotty has won. Okay I'm being a little hyperbolic with that last sentence, but to say Corky didn't have a game that bad sounds like revisionist history to me.

[polamalubeast]

For Kordell...Ben has never been bad like this game by Kordell...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199812130tam.htm

[Mojouw]

Ai thought it couldn’t get crazier, but it has!

[43Hitman]

Ai thought it couldn’t get crazier, but it has!

I think we've officially entered Bizarro World. :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

Fans really should actually watch the games instead of posting rants obviously based on a box score.

[RunNGun]

I do watch every game. Admittedly, I didn't look at his stats before my post. So, they're pretty decent...but I'll stand by him being on the decline. No numbers will change my mind on that. If he pulls a Kordell today and throws 3 ints and we lose this game, it's not crazy to hear some Dobbs or Rudolph whispers.

[pczach]

Just because the Steelers went 25 years without a quarterback doesn't mean we have to excuse Ben's performance Sunday. Not even Kordell played that horribly.

Ben, Terry, Neil, Brister regardless of who's under center. Five turnovers and nearly blowing a game all on your own is unacceptable. People are coming down extra hard this time, Especially when its been commonly blamed Steelers' failures all on Todd Haley. That he's the only one holding Ben and the Offense back, that he's the problem. Well, he's gone.

First game without Haley and Ben one of the worst performances of his career, arguably worse than Jacksonville. Time (and the excuses) are running out on Ben and this team.



Another fan that has it all figured out after one game.



Not even Kordell played that horribly. :rofl2:

Just to make a statement like that discredits anything you say on the subject. If you knew anything about football, those words wouldn't have made it to the keyboard and onto this message board.

Reality is not a place you are visiting with this post.

Who gives a crap if you excuse his performance or not. People like you have been bashing Ben for 15 years. If you keep saying it for a few more years, you'll finally be right and you can pat yourself on the back for your insight.

Too bad you'll be wrong for almost two decades.

[GoSlash27]

I'll stand by him being on the decline. No numbers will change my mind on that.
Wow. Okay... :D So your opinion is so strong that objective fact is immaterial and no fan can question it. Have fun with that, I guess.:ranger:

[cubanstogie]

decline or not, he is the only chance we have to win another SB this year. Every year Ben has a game like last week, just like Elway, and Favre. When you keep plays alive mistakes will happen, you take good with bad. Like a RB making extra effort for yards they are more likely to fumble. I doubt anyone wants Ben to play any different.

[43Hitman]

decline or not, he is the only chance we have to win another SB this year. Every year Ben has a game like last week, just like Elway, and Favre. When you keep plays alive mistakes will happen, you take good with bad. Like a RB making extra effort for yards they are more likely to fumble. I doubt anyone wants Ben to play any different.

They think they do until he actually does and we don't see the same awesome results of most of his games.

[analyst69]

His sword is dull.

[pczach]

His sword is dull.


How dull is his sword again?

[RunNGun]

Wow. Okay... :D So your opinion is so strong that objective fact is immaterial and no fan can question it. Have fun with that, I guess.:ranger:

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I'm right and no one else's opinion matters. You really nailed that on the head. Ben is declining. That's my opinion. You disagree, I get it. Don't put words in my mouth.

[GoSlash27]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I'm right and no one else's opinion matters. You really nailed that on the head. Ben is declining. That's my opinion. You disagree, I get it. Don't put words in my mouth.

Oh, I didn't "put words in your mouth". I quoted you directly. ;)
No numbers will change your mind. No fan can question it. Your words, not mine. ;)

You have the right to hold whatever groundless opinion you want, but when you try to insist that everyone agrees with you... well, that's just a whole 'nother level of dumb.

[43Hitman]

Oh, I didn't "put words in your mouth". I quoted you directly. ;)
No numbers will change your mind. No fan can question it. Your words, not mine. ;)

You have the right to hold whatever groundless opinion you want, but when you try to insist that everyone agrees with you... well, that's just a whole 'nother level of dumb.

:toofunny:

[Born2Steel]

Ben threw 60 passes today with zero INTs. Passed Elway in total yards too btw. Even in decline he's better than 95% of what's out there.

[RunNGun]

Oh, I didn't "put words in your mouth". I quoted you directly. ;)
No numbers will change your mind. No fan can question it. Your words, not mine. ;)

You have the right to hold whatever groundless opinion you want, but when you try to insist that everyone agrees with you... well, that's just a whole 'nother level of dumb.

Ben had good numbers today. I'm guessing you would claim he had a great game. What I saw was him leaving too many plays on the field and missing badly on some throws.

[polamalubeast]

Ben had good numbers today. I'm guessing you would claim he had a great game. What I saw was him leaving too many plays on the field and missing badly on some throws.

That's what happens when you attempts 60 pass and you have no room for error

[fansince'76]

So, now it's Roethlisberger's fault that this defense would probably struggle against a high school JV squad? OK.


That's what happens when you attempts 60 pass and you have no room for error

Not to mention a defense that creates zero turnovers and gives up points on pretty much every single possession.

[GoSlash27]

Ben had good numbers today. I'm guessing you would claim he had a great game. What I saw was him leaving too many plays on the field and missing badly on some throws.

This isn't about what *I'm* claiming, it's about what *you're* claiming. You're claiming that whatever your opinion happens to be is fact, and that the stats are irrelevant. That's dumb. Then you're claiming that everyone else agrees with you, which is even dumber. Your conclusion may be correct or incorrect, but nobody can tell because your *argument* is so stupid. You're right. The facts don't matter. Nobody can persuade you otherwise. Everyone agrees with you. Okay, fine. So now pardon the rest of us while we pay attention to someone with a coherent argument and facts to back it up.

/ moving along...

[RunNGun]

Again, I'm in no way, shape, or form putting this on Ben. Defense was terrible, but the 1st quarter is what killed us. I believe our first 3 possessions were 3 and outs. Ben missed Washington on the first play of the game that could have been huge on how this game played out. He's got to start making some of those critical throws.

- - - Updated - - -


This isn't about what *I'm* claiming, it's about what *you're* claiming. You're claiming that whatever your opinion happens to be is fact, and that the stats are irrelevant. That's dumb. Then you're claiming that everyone else agrees with you, which is even dumber. Your conclusion may be correct or incorrect, but nobody can tell because your *argument* is so stupid. You're right. The facts don't matter. Nobody can persuade you otherwise. Everyone agrees with you. Okay, fine. So now pardon the rest of us while we pay attention to someone with a coherent argument and facts to back it up.

/ moving along...

I'm not claiming that. My claim is the stats are misleading. Imo, today backed that up. He had great numbers, but left a lot of plays on the field that could have dictated this game.

[Edman]

So, now it's Roethlisberger's fault that this defense would probably struggle against a high school JV squad?

No, but it is Ben's fault for inaccurate passes and the dogshit first quarter. IF the refs hadn't intervened to stop another bad turnover, the Steelers are in a 28-0 hole and the game is pretty much over right then and there.

The Defense is its own abortion, as many on here will agree.

Spotty QB play + A Shitty Defense = a very bad season for the Steelers.

[polamalubeast]

Again, I'm in no way, shape, or form putting this on Ben. Defense was terrible, but the 1st quarter is what killed us. I believe our first 3 possessions were 3 and outs. Ben missed Washington on the first play of the game that could have been huge on how this game played out. He's got to start making some of those critical throws.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm not claiming that. My claim is the stats are misleading. Imo, today backed that up. He had great numbers, but left a lot of plays on the field that could have dictated this game.

Not with the way our defense has played

I mean, if the steelers would have scored 7 TD, the chiefs would have scored 9!

[fansince'76]

No, but it is Ben's fault for inaccurate passes and the dogshit first quarter. IF the refs hadn't intervened to stop another bad turnover, the Steelers are in a 28-0 hole and the game is pretty much over right then and there.

Spotty QB play + A Shitty Defense = a very bad season for the Steelers.

Except he brought them all the way back by halftime and the defense continued to shit the bed.

I know you hate the guy's guts, but he's NOT the reason the Steelers lost today.

[polamalubeast]

No, but it is Ben's fault for inaccurate passes and the dogshit first quarter. IF the refs hadn't intervened to stop another bad turnover, the Steelers are in a 28-0 hole and the game is pretty much over right then and there.

The Defense is its own abortion, as many on here will agree.

Spotty QB play + A Shitty Defense = a very bad season for the Steelers.

Ben missed 2 days of practice this week ... Of course he was not going to be perfect in this game ...

[Born2Steel]

Except he brought them all the way back by halftime and the defense continued to shit the bed.

I know you hate the guy's guts, but he's NOT the reason the Steelers lost today.

Correct. Ben had us back in this game and within 5 at the end. Ran out of time or I believe he leads us to that winning TD at the end. That's the breaks sometimes.

[Edman]

Except he brought them all the way back by halftime and the defense continued to shit the bed.

I know you hate the guy's guts, but he's NOT the reason the Steelers lost today.

No one said he was. He was a PART of the reason.

I know, Ben stopped the Chiefs three consecutive drives to get the ball back.

[fansince'76]

No one said he was. He was a PART of the reason.

I know, Ben stopped the Chiefs three consecutive drives to get the ball back.

He accounted for zero turnovers today, so how was he part of the loss? Yeah, I know - he didn't go 60-60 for 800 yards and 10 TDs so he sucked.

[GoSlash27]

I'm not claiming that.

Yeah, you are. That's exactly what you typed. Now please pipe down until you can think of something intelligent to say, preferably with some objective fact to support it.

[RunNGun]

Yeah, you are. That's exactly what you typed. Now please pipe down until you can think of something intelligent to say, preferably with some objective fact to support it.

You're a moron. I told you what my claim is and you want to twist my words. I'm done with you.

[GoSlash27]

You're a moron. I told you what my claim is and you want to twist my words. I'm done with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT90D0GKZRM

[86WARD]

Ben made some great plays but anything he threw deep was so far off target it was laughable.

[43Hitman]

You're a moron. I told you what my claim is and you want to twist my words. I'm done with you.

Probably a good thing, cause he is spanking you right now.

[GoSlash27]

Ben made some great plays but anything he threw deep was so far off target it was laughable.

To be fair, there was a lot of defensive holding going on that wasn't getting flagged. Not excusing the slow start, but I think the "off target" throws were the result of the defense disrupting the receivers, not inaccuracy on Ben's part.

[86WARD]

To be fair, there was a lot of defensive holding going on that wasn't getting flagged. Not excusing the slow start, but I think the "off target" throws were the result of the defense disrupting the receivers, not inaccuracy on Ben's part.

That’s all fine but when the ball continuously sales far over the receivers head out of the back of the end zone or into the first row, that excuse really doesn’t fly. Ben’s “misses” were uncatchable no matter how open the receiver was. They had nothing to do with the disruption in most cases.

[RunNGun]

That’s all fine but when the ball continuously sales far over the receivers head out of the back of the end zone or into the first row, that excuse really doesn’t fly. Ben’s “misses” were uncatchable no matter how open the receiver was. They had nothing to do with the disruption in most cases.

Agreed. Of course he's not going to make all of those throws, but he needs to make a few of them. Spotty QB play is exactly what he's giving us. A lot of it is timing. Like the fly route with Washington on the 1st play and then when he missed Switzer on a key 3rd down conversion. Missing practice doesn't help in building chemistry with new WRs.

[GoSlash27]

That’s all fine but when the ball continuously sales far over the receivers head out of the back of the end zone or into the first row, that excuse really doesn’t fly. Ben’s “misses” were uncatchable no matter how open the receiver was. They had nothing to do with the disruption in most cases.

86,
I was under the impression that those were throwaways. Could easily be wrong, tho' :tea:

[43Hitman]

Agreed. Of course he's not going to make all of those throws, but he needs to make a few of them. Spotty QB play is exactly what he's giving us. A lot of it is timing. Like the fly route with Washington on the 1st play and then when he missed Switzer on a key 3rd down conversion. Missing practice doesn't help in building chemistry with new WRs.

Do you actually know anything about football? This is a serious question because it was obvious to even Fouts that Switzer sat down on the route when he was supposed to head to the sideline.

[RunNGun]

Do you actually know anything about football? This is a serious question because it was obvious to even Fouts that Switzer sat down on the route when he was supposed to head to the sideline.

I'm done with Batman and Robin. Sorry I didn't include you the first time. Yes, I know football very well. I know that Switzer was open and Ben missed him because they weren't on the same page. I know that practice is where you perfect things like that and I also know that Dan Fouts played QB so of course he's going to side with the QB. We see communication issues between Ben and his WRs every game it seems, and it's never Ben's fault.

[43Hitman]

I'm done with Batman and Robin. Sorry I didn't include you the first time. Yes, I know football very well. I know that Switzer was open and Ben missed him because they weren't on the same page. I know that practice is where you perfect things like that and I also know that Dan Fouts played QB so of course he's going to side with the QB. We see communication issues between Ben and his WRs every game it seems, and it's never Ben's fault.

:lol:

[86WARD]

86,
I was under the impression that those were throwaways. Could easily be wrong, tho' :tea:

You may be right but it looked like to me there were some opportunities that he missed.

[43Hitman]

You may be right but it looked like to me there were some opportunities that he missed.

I think it was about 50/50, to be honest, some of those were certainly missing, but I felt he was taking care of the ball on the others. Especially after last week forcing when he shouldn't have.

[GoSlash27]

You may be right but it looked like to me there were some opportunities that he missed.
I agree with you there... I just don't think he missed them due to poor accuracy. I think we saw lots of examples of errant throws in the Cleveland game, but he looked pretty good as far as I could tell in the KC game. He seemed to be putting the ball where he wanted it to be... but it's hard to know for sure without replays showing the other end.
FWIW, Ben said he thought he was pulling some throws right.

[analyst69]

Exactly. Any deep pass down the sidelines ended up 10 yards out of bounds.

[analyst69]

Barry Reeger | Special to PennLive)


Though he played well down the stretch, the Steelers had to chase the game – in part – because Roethlisberger was significantly less accurate than Patrick Mahomes. On at least six occasions, Roethlisberger overthrew open receivers. That's once per 10 throws and one more overthrow of an open receiver than Mahomes had incompletions all game.



Still, the quarterback is due plenty of credit for keeping Pittsburgh in the game, especially with Antonio Brown often contained. Roethlisberger finished with 452 yards from 39-of-60 passing with 1 sack and 3 touchdowns while getting out dueled by Mahomes.

[polamalubeast]

The first half yesterday was the same or almost to the first half against the chiefs...2 first drive, the offense does nothing in its drives after it was 3 TD and an attempted FG...Against KC, it was 21-21 after the first half against TB .... the Steelers were leading 30-10.

It makes a difference when your defense can be just average, when you have no margin of error it's not easy!

Roethlisberger had a good game against KC even if it was not perfect and at least we will not hear that Ben is in decline for a week ...

[tube517]

I am about the weapons Ben has now:

AB
Juju (3 straight 100 yd games)
The Rookie Farmer Washington - he is looking more comfortable and looks to get better
Glass McStiff Arm - When he's healthy he's dangerous and a good blocker. Bad thing is he is unreliable in terms of staying healthy
The Outlaw - Dependable/never injured. Solid backup.
James Conner - Loved that final drive to end the game.

All this is overshadowed by a fake defense.

[polamalubeast]

For those who said that Ben was part of the problem against the chiefs ...

1041542646542618624

[pczach]

For those who said that Ben was part of the problem against the chiefs ...

1041542646542618624



It won't deter anyone from spewing the same misguided claims they made before.

[polamalubeast]

1044968651798056960

[polamalubeast]

1045101397790904321

I heard the same comment in this forum after the game against the chiefs when some gave credit to the defense for our second quarter comeback ...

[Edman]

1045101397790904321

I heard the same comment in this forum after the game against the chiefs when some gave credit to the defense for our second quarter comeback ...

Ben got on the field and stopped the Chiefs from scoring and got the ball back to score on Offense each time. Ben did it all. Ben is truly a dual threat QB. He can play all eleven positions on Defense as well as Quarterback. Damn, no wonder our Defense is so bad half the time, Ben unfortunately can't do two things at once!

He built up a 30-10 lead against Tampa Bay and deliberately stopped scoring for the entire second half so he can hold them off while he played Defense.