There's 21 other players on the field you idiot

[Craic]

Ok. So I decided to go check our bowl-rankings on the ESPN power ranking board.

Man did it raise my bloodpressure. Why? See if you can spot a theme.

Pre: The first four to six games without QB Ben Roethlisberger could make or break their season. (Walker)

Week 1: It's time to see if this team can win without QB Ben Roethlisberger. (Walker)

Week 2: The Steelers showed tremendous character by winning without Ben Roethlisberger. (Walker)

Week 3 (current): With a punishing defense, it's scary to think how good the Steelers will be when QB Ben Roethlisberger returns (Walker)



Funny thing. I saw no one named Roethlisberger on the sidelines. SO SHUT UP ABOUT HIM AND FOCUS ON THE TEAM.

It's no wonder Tomlin was so ticked.

[SMR]

Ok. So I decided to go check our bowl-rankings on the ESPN power ranking board.

Man did it raise my bloodpressure. Why? See if you can spot a theme.

Pre: The first four to six games without QB Ben Roethlisberger could make or break their season. (Walker)

Week 1: It's time to see if this team can win without QB Ben Roethlisberger. (Walker)

Week 2: The Steelers showed tremendous character by winning without Ben Roethlisberger. (Walker)

Week 3 (current): With a punishing defense, it's scary to think how good the Steelers will be when QB Ben Roethlisberger returns (Walker)



Funny thing. I saw no one named Roethlisberger on the sidelines. SO SHUT UP ABOUT HIM AND FOCUS ON THE TEAM.

It's no wonder Tomlin was so ticked.

You got a great point there. There ARE other players on the team. Sheesh!

[GoSlash27]

True, but there has been a certain amount of "Ben-think" creeping into this forum as well.
One guy doesn't break a team, and he sure doesn't make one, either. Ask Matt Stafford.

Nevertheless, nobody seems to have any expectations for our offense without Ben under center. 31st out of 32 2 games in and nobody bats an eye?? I understand that one guy does make an impact and #1 is a bit much to ask for, but surely we can do better than this?

[steelerdude15]

I hate the media.

[Craic]

True, but there has been a certain amount of "Ben-think" creeping into this forum as well.
One guy doesn't break a team, and he sure doesn't make one, either. Ask Matt Stafford.

Nevertheless, nobody seems to have any expectations for our offense without Ben under center. 31st out of 32 2 games in and nobody bats an eye?? I understand that one guy does make an impact and #1 is a bit much to ask for, but surely we can do better than this?

I think the larger issue is that, many think this team is Ben and Ben alone. If Ben is gone, the team is gone. That simply isn't true. As far as where our offense is right now, well, What do you expect with our number 3 and number 4 QB? With our number 2 and 3 Tackles? With our number two center having to play guard for a few snaps?

When there is no reason to line up less than 8 or 9 in the box, its going to be a long day no matter WHO is on the field. That is why I am not too worried right now. heck, we are STILL moving the ball enough to win games. Leftwich (if that knee is healthy) is going to be a big help, because he can stretch the field--AND get that 3rd, 4th, and even 5th man out of the box on 1st and 2nd down. Then, with our first string O line, we can keep players out of the pocket for 3 seconds (except on blitzes, which is the QB's responsibility to read and throw to the open man). Once those players get distributed more, the running lanes open up that much more.

So no, I am not worried right now. I DO recognize that Ben coming back will be HUGE for us, and will probably raise us up to above average at least... Lefty will put us at average. It isn't about "Ben", its about competency at QB. However, the OP is about some idiot thinking The Steelers = Ben Roethlisberger.

[tube517]

I hate the media.

+1

[GoSlash27]

As far as where our offense is right now, well, What do you expect with our number 3 and number 4 QB? With our number 2 and 3 Tackles? With our number two center having to play guard for a few snaps?
Better than #31 in the league. Maybe 16th overall? Can we shoot for that?
Tomlin said that "excellence is the standard, regardless of circumstance", and that's a pretty good mindset IMO. We are missing key opportunities we should be getting. I understand that it happens, but we shouldn't be letting that slide just 'cause Ben is on vacation.
/amiright?

[Craic]

Better than #31 in the league. Maybe 16th overall? Can we shoot for that?
Tomlin said that "excellence is the standard, regardless of circumstance", and that's a pretty good mindset IMO. We are missing key opportunities we should be getting. I understand that it happens, but we shouldn't be letting that slide just 'cause Ben is on vacation.
/amiright?

I don't think anyone is letting it slide. I do however, think most people understand the situation and as such, aren't getting bent out of shape with the coaching staff and players at this point in time. If we could produce with our 3rd and 4th stringers like we could with our 1st and 2nd, we wouldn't be paying Ben 100 Million a year.

[BigBenFn7]

This team probably couldn't make the playoffs and certainly can't win a SB without Ben. Yes, you need everyone else including him but right now they have everyone except him. With him, they jump two or three more levels as a team because right now there is no one to get our receivers the ball; especially the speed guys like Wallace/Randle El/Brown.

[st33lersguy]

I guess these idiots forgot that Troy Polamau, James Harrison, Lawrence Timmons, Lamar Woodley, and all their other good players weren't suspended

[GoSlash27]

This team probably couldn't make the playoffs and certainly can't win a SB without Ben. Yes, you need everyone else including him but right now they have everyone except him. With him, they jump two or three more levels as a team because right now there is no one to get our receivers the ball; especially the speed guys like Wallace/Randle El/Brown.

Funny you should mention them, 'cuz they all had catchable balls thrown their way in Memphis, and they failed to come down with them. To his credit, Tomlin noticed that.

Preach,
I'm far from bent out of shape. Far from it; I'm very pleased to be sitting 2-0. I'm just saying that the Ben mentality is alive and well on this forum just like it is out there in the press.

[vasteeler]

my guess is that bens name sell papers

[Craic]

Preach,
I'm far from bent out of shape. Far from it; I'm very pleased to be sitting 2-0. I'm just saying that the Ben mentality is alive and well on this forum just like it is out there in the press.

Sorry GoSlash... I didn't mean to infer that YOU were bent out of shape, rather, I was just using it as a turn of speech concerning those who are taking everything else I mentioned into account. Apologize if it sounded like I was applying it to you!:drink:

As far as the Ben syndrome goes... I don't know if anyone here will discount the defense the way the media seems to have done it. IMO, most here just understand that Ben is the missing piece to a SB contention team right now. The press makes it seem like Ben is the ONLY Piece to a superbowl team. I think that is the difference I am expressing. Would you agree with that, or do you think that some here would agree with the latter instead of the former?

[Craic]

Funny you should mention them, 'cuz they all had catchable balls thrown their way in Memphis, and they failed to come down with them. To his credit, Tomlin noticed that.


I wanted to talk about this separately. A lot of people were saying that Tomlin had just inherited a good team and wasn't not necessarily a good coach. He was just riding Cowher's coat tails. I don't know. With the way this team responded to last year, the outright fierceness of the defense, the much improved secondary from Cowher's secondaries (even as bad as they seemed last year), and the little things like what you mentioned above, it shows me just how good of a coach he is. If he takes this team back deep into the playoffs this year, it will absolutely cement it in my mind.

[GoSlash27]

Sorry GoSlash... I didn't mean to infer that YOU were bent out of shape, rather, I was just using it as a turn of speech concerning those who are taking everything else I mentioned into account. Apologize if it sounded like I was applying it to you!:drink:
Aw, shucks, Preach. You know you're one of my favorite peeps :D


As far as the Ben syndrome goes... I don't know if anyone here will discount the defense the way the media seems to have done it. IMO, most here just understand that Ben is the missing piece to a SB contention team right now. The press makes it seem like Ben is the ONLY Piece to a superbowl team. I think that is the difference I am expressing. Would you agree with that, or do you think that some here would agree with the latter instead of the former?
Actually, neither. I think that we're missing more than just Ben on offense at the moment, and I'm thankful that our D has stepped up to cover it. My concern is that Ben will come back in week 6 and we will discover that our offense still isn't where it should be. Mike seems to have noticed tho', so hopefully he'll light a fire under them this week.

[GoSlash27]

I wanted to talk about this separately. A lot of people were saying that Tomlin had just inherited a good team and wasn't not necessarily a good coach. He was just riding Cowher's coat tails. I don't know. With the way this team responded to last year, the outright fierceness of the defense, the much improved secondary from Cowher's secondaries (even as bad as they seemed last year), and the little things like what you mentioned above, it shows me just how good of a coach he is. If he takes this team back deep into the playoffs this year, it will absolutely cement it in my mind.

No disagreement here. Mike is a sharp guy and (generally) doesn't let his emotion cloud his judgement. More than anything else, I credit the Rooneys and the FO for allowing him to set up his system and personnel his way without the fear of being replaced. That's the real secret to our success.

[Craic]

Aw, shucks, Preach. You know you're one of my favorite peeps :D
:chuckle: Thanks.



Actually, neither. I think that we're missing more than just Ben on offense at the moment, and I'm thankful that our D has stepped up to cover it. My concern is that Ben will come back in week 6 and we will discover that our offense still isn't where it should be. Mike seems to have noticed tho', so hopefully he'll light a fire under them this week.

Ahh, THAT is what you are getting at. Ok, I have no real argument with that position. I completely agree actually. I think the problems are 1. we are very young at WR for the 2nd and 3rd man (ARE is fourth, isn't he?) So we are seeing some mistakes made there. 2. Our line is still a work in progress. However, I do think it is getting better. The center of it is VERY anchored right now. Seems Hartwig was a much bigger issue than many thought. However, the tackles are a real problem. 3. The run game is average. Mendy is getting about 60-70 yards a game right now (discounting 1 overtime run). That's just not going to cut it. yet, if you watch him and Redman run, they are making something out of nothing. So again, its our line, and it seems to be coming from the 7th, 8th and 9th guy in the box on D (which is why I think Ben and Lefty will be an improvement here), and they are coming around the slow-footed tackles.

I think that is why I say we can't begin to really evaluate this offense until Ben is playing. Yet, I am not even sure if that is fair. Ben extends plays so long, that sometimes he makes the offense look better than it is, and other times, he drives up sack counts. So in actuality, Lefty may be the better measuring stick for this offense. What happens when a just above average veteran QB (who isn't ancient in football age and has seen more than 4 plays in the last 3 years) takes the helm.

[GoSlash27]

Preacher,
I'm pretty sure we'll get the chance to evaluate our offense with Lefty, since "guess here is lefty starts". :D
Seriously tho'... my guess is that the problem is stemming from lack of continuity. It's not just the rookies who are missing opportunities, and the stats are reflecting it. Even Heath is dropping passes, and he's usually Mister Automatic. Our first game with Ben back under center may be a little rocky.

[Butch]

James Walker pft!!!

Used to think he was a pretty good writer, but he is proving more and more what an idiot he can be. Week one he had both the cryboys and the deadskins way ahead of us. I asked him about it and he put my question in the complaint section and never answered my question.

[oneforthetoe]

I think the larger issue is that, many think this team is Ben and Ben alone. If Ben is gone, the team is gone. That simply isn't true. As far as where our offense is right now, well, What do you expect with our number 3 and number 4 QB? With our number 2 and 3 Tackles? With our number two center having to play guard for a few snaps?

When there is no reason to line up less than 8 or 9 in the box, its going to be a long day no matter WHO is on the field. That is why I am not too worried right now. heck, we are STILL moving the ball enough to win games. Leftwich (if that knee is healthy) is going to be a big help, because he can stretch the field--AND get that 3rd, 4th, and even 5th man out of the box on 1st and 2nd down. Then, with our first string O line, we can keep players out of the pocket for 3 seconds (except on blitzes, which is the QB's responsibility to read and throw to the open man). Once those players get distributed more, the running lanes open up that much more.

So no, I am not worried right now. I DO recognize that Ben coming back will be HUGE for us, and will probably raise us up to above average at least... Lefty will put us at average. It isn't about "Ben", its about competency at QB. However, the OP is about some idiot thinking The Steelers = Ben Roethlisberger.

I mostly agree with this, Preacher. In fact. I actually think if we could keep Byron healthy and get him a few games under his belt we might still be able to make the playoffs. Still, as more than handful of AFC championship game losses prove, more often than not you need the franchise QB behind center to take that leap. I have heard a lot of references to the brilliant Steelers' D of 1976 in the past few days. IMO, it was the greatest run of defense in the history of the game. However, as we all know, we lost the AFC Championship Game without a number of our offensive stars.

For the record, I think the offense could still struggle when Ben comes back. However, he instantly changes one aspect of the opposing D's approach to the game the first snap he is back. He has one of the longest career yards per completion in the history of the NFL. An opposing team's D takes a big risk in putting 8 or 9 in the box, or blitzing him. WE don't have another QB on the roster who can scare teams that way.

In the end, the debate is really rather irrelevant. The Steelers have proved they can win without Ben, but we all agree we are much better with him than without him.

[Devilsdancefloor]

james walker lives in cleveland enough said about that. As far as all the attention about ben. well frankly i think all of us had a moment or 2 where we thought damn if we can just go .500 without ben it would be great. So as far as the media being focused on Ben no big deal. The nation knows who has been playing and the 11 guys on the D hands down have been playing enough for the other guys suited up. Coach dad and the vets on the D have carried this team thus far and it will not change when ben gets back. Hopefully when ben gets back there will be a few points on t he board instead of what we hve seen the past 2 weeks.

[GBMelBlount]

Ok. So I decided to go check our bowl-rankings on the ESPN power ranking board.

Man did it raise my bloodpressure. Why? See if you can spot a theme.

Pre: The first four to six games without QB Ben Roethlisberger could make or break their season. (Walker)

Week 1: It's time to see if this team can win without QB Ben Roethlisberger. (Walker)

Week 2: The Steelers showed tremendous character by winning without Ben Roethlisberger. (Walker)

Week 3 (current): With a punishing defense, it's scary to think how good the Steelers will be when QB Ben Roethlisberger returns (Walker)



Funny thing. I saw no one named Roethlisberger on the sidelines. SO SHUT UP ABOUT HIM AND FOCUS ON THE TEAM.

It's no wonder Tomlin was so ticked.

I guess we see things differently Preach. I read this and agreed with his statements. There is nothing odd to me about this. Sometimes there can be a player who arguably is vitally important to a teams success like Ben, or Troy perhaps.

It is great that our defense appears to be back to 2008 form. I'm ecstatic and these guys deserve every accolade coming their way....BUT it appears to me that Ben may arguably be THE difference between our offense being terrible versus decent.

Just my two cents friend. :drink:

[Steeldude]

i think it has to do with the fact the steelers have no offense without BR. the defense and reed are pretty much the reasons the steelers are winning.

i think the offense will be better this week with batch in. arians should be able to use more of the playbook and widen the game plan.

[NCSteeler]

Jeremy is that you???

[Butch]

i think it has to do with the fact the steelers have no offense without BR. the defense and reed are pretty much the reasons the steelers are winning.

i think the offense will be better this week with batch in. arians should be able to use more of the playbook and widen the game plan.

I dunno if we have Dixon higher up on the depth chart than Charlie and we didn't open up the books for him then why would we do much different with our 4th string? I aint sayin' it won't but I think if Charlie is in we will play just as conservative because if he goes down we are using ARE, Hines or someone not accustomed to the QB position.

[SirHulka]

Sometimes there can be a player who arguably is vitally important to a teams success like Ben, or Troy perhaps.


There is no perhaps. Without Polamalu, and with Ben, you are at best a .500 team. Last year proved that.

It's true that the Steelers need one player over all the others. But that player wears #43, not #7.

[Steeldude]

I dunno if we have Dixon higher up on the depth chart than Charlie and we didn't open up the books for him then why would we do much different with our 4th string? I aint sayin' it won't but I think if Charlie is in we will play just as conservative because if he goes down we are using ARE, Hines or someone not accustomed to the QB position.

IMO, it's because dixon is another kordell. they had to constantly simplify the playbook for kordell, but not for his backups tomczak etc...

i agree that the steelers will still play conservatively, but IMO they will be able to add more of the playbook with batch in.

[Dino 6 Rings]

I think the issue with fans and media and the lack of Ben on the Steelers is the same it would be if any "good" team lost their Starting QB.

Take Manning off the Colts...whatta think they do? Take Brady off the Pats, one year Cassell proved they could still win, that credit should have gone to the rest of that team more than Cassell, just as now, we give credit for the Steelers wins to the entire Team, special teams on down to the 2nd string DE making a play.

Take Flacco of the Ravens, Take Breese off the Saints. I think the talk is really more about, "Holy Crap at how good the Steelers are right now as a team and once they get their 2 time Super Bowl Winning Franchise Play making QB back, they are going to be a Super Bowl Contender."

I really think that's all it is. Its tough for any team to win without their starting QB. Teams prove their talent, Worth and Greatness by winning in tough situations. The Steelers have won 2 games with their 3rd and 4th String QBs when Camp Started. That's pretty Awesome. When Ben gets back, it'll be even Awesomer! (yes, not a word but it sounds cool.)