Khalil Mack

[Rotorhead]

I was just reading that the Raiders are severely lacking at the backup QB spot, with all the talk about trading Bell for Mack, maybe we can sweeten the pot by adding Dobbs to that trade as well? Just a thought I had, of course I am also reading that Mack wants QB money so trying to get him under contract is probably impossible.

[Fire Goodell]

We already have a diva player that wants QB money

[BlackAndGold]

Doubt Dobbs has much value.

Mack to Pittsburgh isn't going to happen sadly. I can see a team like the Jets offering up a package for him. They just got an extra third by trading Bridgewater to the Saints.

[AtlantaDan]

Doubt Dobbs has much value.

Mack to Pittsburgh isn't going to happen sadly. I can see a team like the Jets offering up a package for him. They just got an extra third by trading Bridgewater to the Saints.

I read if Beckham justifies $65 million guaranteed Mack should bring in $75 million at the now reset market rates - even if the Raiders pulled off a trade hard to see how to get Mack to report unless you agree to sign him long-term without the cap space at this time of year to pull it off

[Dwinsgames]

I read if Beckham justifies $65 million guaranteed Mack should bring in $75 million at the now reset market rates - even if the Raiders pulled off a trade hard to see how to get Mack to report unless you agree to sign him long-term without the cap space at this time of year to pull it off

would have to be big signing bonus money combined with roster bonus money over the length of the contract in order ot do so ... would be difficult but doable ...

question is does he provide you with a missing piece to close the deal on 2 Lombardi's in the next 3 years ... if you answer yes , then you do it ... if you say no then you do not

[teegre]

I read if Beckham justifies $65 million guaranteed Mack should bring in $75 million at the now reset market rates - even if the Raiders pulled off a trade hard to see how to get Mack to report unless you agree to sign him long-term without the cap space at this time of year to pull it off

In Omar Khan I trust.

Really.

I’m no cap genius, but the $14 million already allotted for Bell, along with restructuring a player or two (e.g. Ben) should give us enough cap space to give Mack the $18-$20 million/season that he wants.

[Shoes]

For two 1st rounders you can have him. :asskick:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/29/report-raiders-seeking-two-first-round-picks-for-khalil-mack/

[teegre]

For two 1st rounders you can have him. :asskick:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/29/report-raiders-seeking-two-first-round-picks-for-khalil-mack/

Not that I’m even advocating this, but... what about:

Bell & a R1?

[Dwinsgames]

Not that I’m even advocating this, but... what about:

Bell & a R1?


they need another QB ...

so why not Bell ( let them have their pick ) Dobbs / Jones and a 3rd

[Shoes]

they need another QB ...

so why not Bell ( let them have their pick ) Dobbs / Jones and a 3rd

I like.

[teegre]

they need another QB ...

so why not Bell ( let them have their pick ) Dobbs / Jones and a 3rd

IMO, there’s no way that they are taking anything less than a R1 (plus, something else equal to a R1).


Dobbs/Jones + R3 is nowhere close to equal to a R1 pick. In fact, considering Bell’s age... it would probably be Bell, a R1, and Dobbs/Jones.

[BlackAndGold]

The Raiders will more than likely keep Mack and franchise tag him until they no longer can do so financially, exactly like the Steelers are doing with Bell.

[Dwinsgames]

The Raiders will more than likely keep Mack and franchise tag him until they no longer can do so financially, exactly like the Steelers are doing with Bell.

he is already under contract .... tag is 2 years away I believe

- - - Updated - - -


IMO, there’s no way that they are taking anything less than a R1 (plus, something else equal to a R1).


Dobbs/Jones + R3 is nowhere close to equal to a R1 pick. In fact, considering Bell’s age... it would probably be Bell, a R1, and Dobbs/Jones.

this is Chucky and Reggie Mckenzie remember ..they gave up a 3rd for Martavis

[BlackAndGold]

IMO, there’s no way that they are taking anything less than a R1 (plus, something else equal to a R1).


Dobbs/Jones + R3 is nowhere close to equal to a R1 pick. In fact, considering Bell’s age... it would probably be Bell, a R1, and Dobbs/Jones.

Why would the Raiders even want Bell who isn't even signed long term? How likely would Bell re-sign?

Mack isn't going to be in the Black and Gold. Even though we can all dream.

[teegre]

this is Chucky and Reggie Mckenzie remember ..they gave up a 3rd for Martavis

That’s funny... but... also totally TRUE. :lol:

[BlackAndGold]

he is already under contract .... tag is 2 years away I believe

FA after this year.

[DesertSteel]

We already have a diva player that wants QB money
The difference is that Mack might actually be worth it.

[teegre]

Why would the Raiders even want Bell who isn't even signed long term? How likely would Bell re-sign?

Mack isn't going to be in the Black and Gold. Even though we can all dream.

The Raidahs could sign him long-term.

A: It’s preseason, and a boring Wednesday night... so, I’m like: why not take a ride down this rabbit hole. :wink02:

[Shoes]

The Raidahs could sign him long-term.

A: It’s preseason, and a boring Wednesday night... so, I’m like: why not take a ride down this rabbit hole. :wink02:

:lol:

[BlackAndGold]

The Raidahs could sign him long-term.

A: It’s preseason, and a boring Wednesday night... so, I’m like: why not take a ride down this rabbit hole. :wink02:

Lol.

So ready for the season to start.

[Mojouw]

Bell is worthless in a trade unless both parties could agree to an extension prior to the trade. Of course that would be wildly illegal and never happen in the NFL.

[st33lersguy]

The Steelers don't have the money to sign him and there would be too much to have to give up.
P.S.: If the Raiders do trade Mack, that dumpster fire of a non-existent defense will somehow be even worse (I didn't even think that was possible)

[teegre]

Bell is worthless in a trade unless both parties could agree to an extension prior to the trade. Of course that would be wildly illegal and never happen in the NFL.

“Wink, wink... nudge, nudge,” the man said knowingly. :wink02:

[silver & black]

The Steelers don't have the money to sign him and there would be too much to have to give up.
P.S.: If the Raiders do trade Mack, that dumpster fire of a non-existent defense will somehow be even worse (I didn't even think that was possible)
You might be surprised this year. We have a real D coordinator now. Norton is gone...lol.

[AtlantaDan]

You might be surprised this year. We have a real D coordinator now. Norton is gone...lol.

Any word on whether ex-Bengals coordinator Paul Guenther is going to get a lot of discretion over the defense or if Chuckie is going to seek to impose defensive schemes that worked 15 years ago?

[silver & black]

Any word on whether ex-Bengals coordinator Paul Guenther is going to get a lot of discretion over the defense or if Chuckie is going to seek to impose defensive schemes that worked 15 years ago?

As with all head coaches, I'm sure Chucky gets the final say, but all indications are that Guenther is running the defense as he sees fit.

[AtlantaDan]

As with all head coaches, I'm sure Chucky gets the final say, but all indications are that Guenther is running the defense as he sees fit.

Thanks :drink:

I ask because once LeBeau left Tomlin started imposing his views that went back to defensive philosophies shaped by his time in Tampa - it may primarily be a personnel problem but that has not led to optimal results

[86WARD]

Why would the Raiders want Bell over two first round picks. They have Lynch and Martin which are serviceable veterans for now and they have Chris Warren, an undrafted guy who has been torching defenses this preseason. To take Bell over two first round picks would be crazy...but then again, it is the Raiders we are talking about...

[BlackAndGold]

1035234154324086784

[silver & black]

I wouldn't rule out a trade. It could happen, but I don't think so. He's under contract. Every game he doesn't show up for can cost him $814,000 in fines.... if the Raiders decide on that action.... which I doubt they would.

I've heard that it will take two 1st round picks and possibly a player... if it were to happen.

[Rotorhead]

Why would the Raiders want Bell over two first round picks. They have Lynch and Martin which are serviceable veterans for now and they have Chris Warren, an undrafted guy who has been torching defenses this preseason. To take Bell over two first round picks would be crazy...but then again, it is the Raiders we are talking about...

It would be bell and a #1 plus one of our 3 backup QBs, we are going to be using our #1 next year for yet another LB so why not use it now for Mack

[st33lersguy]

In theory the idea of getting Khalil Mack would be a no-brainer. Problem is the Steelers will not be able to afford the kind of money Mack demands. At best he'd be just a one year rental and at worst he'd act all grumpy and cause drama over not getting the money he wants. The economics just isn't there, and who knows how Mack will react to not getting paid

- - - Updated - - -


It would be bell and a #1 plus one of our 3 backup QBs, we are going to be using our #1 next year for yet another LB so why not use it now for Mack

First of all, given that they waited until undrafted free agency to address the LB position this past offseason, I am not sure that is a forgone conclusion. Second would you rather have 1 year of Mack or potentially more than a decade of a new 1st round draft pick in 2019?

[Mojouw]

They can afford Mack.

2019 - 11.5 million in projected cap space without even trying to clear room
2020 - 80 million in cap space

Now for both those years they would still have to round out the roster.

Also in 2017, they would need to clear salary. But moving Bell and Landry Jones off the roster would clear 17 million in space.

All that being said, it doesn't matter. Raiders are not going to trade one big contract head-ache for another in Mack and Bell.

So to make Mack work the Steelers would need the following:

Get rid of Bell
Get rid of Landry Jones
Shed another salary or so
Trade a 2019 and 2020 first round pick

That is a phenomenal amount of assets to divert to one player. But it could be done. In addition to the massive allocation of cash and draft resources to get Mack, I can tell you one other reason the Steelers wouldn't do it. He throws the entire salary structure of the team off. By paying Mack what he wants/is worth on the market -- they would be telling Heyward, Tuitt, and AB that they aren't the core building blocks the team led them to believe they were and that an "outside" guy is valued over them. The Steelers have never done that. They have a salary structure and right now, Heyward and Tuitt are on top of it. That is why Hightower's offer topped out where it did. And why Mack would never work out for the Steelers.

[Steelermania]

They can afford Mack.

2019 - 11.5 million in projected cap space without even trying to clear room
2020 - 80 million in cap space

Now for both those years they would still have to round out the roster.

Also in 2017, they would need to clear salary. But moving Bell and Landry Jones off the roster would clear 17 million in space.

All that being said, it doesn't matter. Raiders are not going to trade one big contract head-ache for another in Mack and Bell.

So to make Mack work the Steelers would need the following:

Get rid of Bell
Get rid of Landry Jones
Shed another salary or so
Trade a 2019 and 2020 first round pick

That is a phenomenal amount of assets to divert to one player. But it could be done. In addition to the massive allocation of cash and draft resources to get Mack, I can tell you one other reason the Steelers wouldn't do it. He throws the entire salary structure of the team off. By paying Mack what he wants/is worth on the market -- they would be telling Heyward, Tuitt, and AB that they aren't the core building blocks the team led them to believe they were and that an "outside" guy is valued over them. The Steelers have never done that. They have a salary structure and right now, Heyward and Tuitt are on top of it. That is why Hightower's offer topped out where it did. And why Mack would never work out for the Steelers.

Totally agree with this.The Steelers have drawn the line in the sand with regard to salary for a guy who has been the best in the league at his position, and is proven, playing for this team. Yet people think they are going to pay crazy money for a guy that as good as he's been, hasn't done it playing with this team, these teammates, and in this system. Fans are pissed at Bell for not being here, but he's actually unsigned, and is playing the system according to the way it's set up. Mack has a contract, and is not honoring it. If Bell is a bad guy for not coming in earlier than the rules state he has to, what is Mack, a guy who has a contract, but is not honoring it? I can't see the Steelers blowing up their salary structure for this guy.

[BlackAndGold]

Report is the Browns are inquiring for Mack.

him and Garrett....

https://media.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/giphy.gif

[86WARD]

Packers would be a nice landing spot for Mack. I think they have an extra 2019 pick already...

[86WARD]

Sounds like the Bears will be the landing spot...

[stillers4me]

1035869745655029760

[st33lersguy]

Damn, sounds like the price will be too steep. Raiders expected to get a nice haul, (of course hearing from silver and black it sounds like it won't matter what they get for him as long as Reggie remains GM)

[Hawkman]

Wonder how he’ll like those Chicago winters.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Wonder how he’ll like those Chicago winters.

If only he could afford to buy a warm winter coat he would be fine.

He played college ball in Buffalo. I think he has seen winter there before.

[teegre]

Wonder how he’ll like those Chicago winters.

Since he is from Buffalo, he’ll likely feel right at home.

[silver & black]

At least he went to the NFC.

Reggie will have multiple 1st round picks to screw up, now...lol.

[86WARD]

Since he is from Buffalo, he’ll likely feel right at home.

The winters in cChicago will feel like spring break compared to Buffalo...lol.

[st33lersguy]

Is this deal finalized or is this still in the expected to happen phase

[Dwinsgames]

Is this deal finalized or is this still in the expected to happen phase

last I seen was " likely to happen" so finalizing the fine print I suspect

[Mojouw]

So this deal makes no sense to me from the Raiders point of view. Aren’t the sole purpose of first round picks to find and develop players like Mack? I guess they just don’t want to pay him? And that is because they have to pay Carr and who else on that roster?

Seriuously, is this just Chuky being a grump and refusing to get on board with the new salary rates?

I mean if you are not willing to commit dollars to a 27 year old holy terror of an edge rusher who has missed basically no games in his entire career, who would you be willing to pay?

[Dwinsgames]

So this deal makes no sense to me from the Raiders point of view. Aren’t the sole purpose of first round picks to find and develop players like Mack? I guess they just don’t want to pay him? And that is because they have to pay Carr and who else on that roster?

Seriuously, is this just Chuky being a grump and refusing to get on board with the new salary rates?

I mean if you are not willing to commit dollars to a 27 year old holy terror of an edge rusher who has missed basically no games in his entire career, who would you be willing to pay?

many teams do not want to negotiate with players who are already under contract , they want what they bargained on at the price they bargained on ...

this could go 1 of two ways ... the Raiders will have all kinds of ammo to go after whomever they want in the next couple drafts ( rostering top talents on the cheap ) which is good ...

the bad part is its Chuckie and Reggie Mackenzie that hold those purse strings of talent evaluation .....

so...............................

[Dwinsgames]

1035955282810220544

[st33lersguy]

Congratulations Raiders, when this trade goes through, you will officially surpass the Broncos as worst team in the AFC West.

[Mojouw]

For the negotiations thing, well that’s what you get for jamming one sided contracts down players throats. Something about reaping what you sow. Not sure, but isn’t Mack a rookie wage scale guy? If so he’s certainly wildly underpaid.

As for the picks, yeah they’re gonna screw the pooch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlackAndGold]

This made the Raiders matchup later in the season a little bit easier.

[Dwinsgames]

1035973285853491200

[BlackAndGold]

1036011135483486211

[Mojouw]

1036011135483486211

Wait. Wait. Wait. Did the Bears just sucker him? 90 million - 60 million means that only 30 million in guarantees gets paid out in years 2-6. Depending on how they structured that 60 million at signing, Mack could be cheaper to cut than pay by year 2 or 3 of the deal.

I mean it is still a phenomenal amount of money, but this at first reports, looks like a situation where they pay him while Trubisky and others are on cheap rookie deals and then as those extensions come online, Mack is 31+ and gets cut...

Can't wait to see the precise terms.

[teegre]

Remember way back in the day when Aaron Donald was the highest-paid defender in the NFL...

[BlackAndGold]

Remember way back in the day when Aaron Donald was the highest-paid defender in the NFL...

Another holdout for AD soon.

[teegre]

Another holdout for AD soon.

:applaudit:

[HollywoodSteel]

Good. Two great defenders end up in the NFC. I like

[silver & black]

many teams do not want to negotiate with players who are already under contract , they want what they bargained on at the price they bargained on ...

this could go 1 of two ways ... the Raiders will have all kinds of ammo to go after whomever they want in the next couple drafts ( rostering top talents on the cheap ) which is good ...

the bad part is its Chuckie and Reggie Mackenzie that hold those purse strings of talent evaluation .....

so...............................

This... exactly!

[Dwinsgames]

This... exactly!

you know I said on twitter when Chuckie was hired ...

this might be the first time in history a franchise gets set back 10 years TWICE by the same coach

1st time Chuckies departure set them back a decade and him being away from the game and seemingly has thoughts of yesteryear as the future ( it don't work that way now ) will potentially set them back a decade again before he is ousted

[Mojouw]

This is absolutely hilarious and stunning if true - https://thebiglead.com/2018/09/01/khalil-mack-raiders-mark-davis-jon-gruden/

So that means that an actual NFL franchise can't scrape together 90 million bucks since the amount of the contract guarantee has to go into an escrow account the day the deal is signed.

How is that possible? How much are they paying Chucky again?

[tom444]

Go Chucky, F the Raiders.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Wait. Wait. Wait. Did the Bears just sucker him? 90 million - 60 million means that only 30 million in guarantees gets paid out in years 2-6. Depending on how they structured that 60 million at signing, Mack could be cheaper to cut than pay by year 2 or 3 of the deal.

I mean it is still a phenomenal amount of money, but this at first reports, looks like a situation where they pay him while Trubisky and others are on cheap rookie deals and then as those extensions come online, Mack is 31+ and gets cut...

Can't wait to see the precise terms.

So they might cut him when he is 31 years old and he will have cashed their $90million? Oh, the struggle is real.

[Mojouw]

So they might cut him when he is 31 years old and he will have cashed their $90million? Oh, the struggle is real.

I think you missed my point. In addition to getting paid, which Mack clearly is, the role of guaranteed money in the NFL is to make the player difficult to cut. What I think we are seeing with recent big money contracts signed in the past several months is that teams are getting wise to this game and they are putting a bunch of the money at the front and then only "needing" to keep the player around for the first year or two of their contracts. Then the player is then transitioned back, at least in salary cap terms, to being on a yearly option kinda thing because the dead money is back in the team's favor.

What's my point? Not that Mack got screwed or anything, but that teams are dealing with contracts at a PhD level and players and their agents seem to be barely shuffling by at the GED level.

[st33lersguy]

Short term bears win because the raiders are screwed for 2018 missing their best player and few if any viable options to replace him. However, the raiders are set up to win the trade beyond 2018. They now have 4 first round picks over the next 2 years and they freed themselves of tying up a lot of space into one guy and sending themselves into cap hell. Thing is though, they got to take advantage of it, and it will help if mark Davis surrounds himself with better management

[Dwinsgames]

Short term bears win because the raiders are screwed for 2018 missing their best player and few if any viable options to replace him. However, the raiders are set up to win the trade beyond 2018. They now have 4 first round picks over the next 2 years and they freed themselves of tying up a lot of space into one guy and sending themselves into cap hell. Thing is though, they got to take advantage of it, and it will help if mark Davis surrounds himself with better management

while you are correct they will have 4 firsts over 2 years they essentially gave back one with the bears getting a 2nd in the deal , as bad as the Raider D was with Mack its going to be much worse without him , meaning good chance they pick in the top 10 so the bears will get a pick in the top 40 in return ... ( doesnt look as good when you take that into consideration ) then those picks have to be big time hits .... cant be getting Bud Dupree / Jarvis Jones level 1st rounders or you lost more ground than you thought ...

old saying a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush ....it rings true here for me anyways ..

they should have tried harder at paying Mack ..1 known beast is worth more than 2 unknowns

[ALLD]

Raiders are playing moneyball and it makes sense from that perspective. Why tie up everything in one pllayer and then what happens if he gets injured?

[tube517]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmIXS55W0AAucTS.jpg:large

[AtlantaDan]

Raiders are playing moneyball and it makes sense from that perspective. Why tie up everything in one pllayer and then what happens if he gets injured?

Peter King argues with cap increases not as much is tied up as it appears and that by paying Carr but not Mack you send the message that only QBs get paid by the Raiders.

The locker room is thinking, “If Khalil Mack, probably our best player, isn’t worth 10 percent of the cap through his prime, then who are they going to pay around here other than the quarterback?”...

Folks, it’s all Monopoly money. The cap has more than doubled in 13 years. The way to think of players’ salaries is as a percentage of the cap—not in raw dollars. Five years ago, this Mack deal, on average, would have been 18 percent of the cap. Now, over the next seven years, it’s 10.67 percent. When the cap grows, you’re much better off thinking of the percentage of the cap, not that a defensive player shouldn’t make $20 million a year. It’s all relative.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/03/khalil-mack-trade-super-bowl-prediction-peter-king/

I think the Raiders are planning to spend when they need to sell seat licenses for the new Vegas stadium in a few years, just like the Rams are paying big now while facing cap hell later to sell PSLs now for their LA stadium

[st33lersguy]

while you are correct they will have 4 firsts over 2 years they essentially gave back one with the bears getting a 2nd in the deal , as bad as the Raider D was with Mack its going to be much worse without him , meaning good chance they pick in the top 10 so the bears will get a pick in the top 40 in return ... ( doesnt look as good when you take that into consideration ) then those picks have to be big time hits .... cant be getting Bud Dupree / Jarvis Jones level 1st rounders or you lost more ground than you thought ...

old saying a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush ....it rings true here for me anyways ..

they should have tried harder at paying Mack ..1 known beast is worth more than 2 unknowns

It all depends on what both teams do with what they now have but at this point raiders simply have more to work with in the future