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Dwinsgames
08-09-2018, 07:47 PM
its 1 preseason game , I get it trust me ...

but I am impressed at how much he has improved ...

sure he has some throws that I bet he wished he had back but that doesn't take away the improved presence he has .

That Deep ball to the kid from YSU Patterson was a thing of beauty ( and what an adjustment from Patterson ) but make no mistake the ball was put in the only spot it could be to have any chance at a completion ...

this could spark the debate a bit Dobbs or Jones ...

me I go with the one with upside if we continue to see the same strides the rest of the preseason ...

Iron Steeler
08-09-2018, 08:00 PM
that was a great TD throw!

Craic
08-09-2018, 09:56 PM
its 1 preseason game , I get it trust me ...

but I am impressed at how much he has improved ...

sure he has some throws that I bet he wished he had back but that doesn't take away the improved presence he has .

That Deep ball to the kid from YSU Patterson was a thing of beauty ( and what an adjustment from Patterson ) but make no mistake the ball was put in the only spot it could be to have any chance at a completion ...

this could spark the debate a bit Dobbs or Jones ...

me I go with the one with upside if we continue to see the same strides the rest of the preseason ...

This was the gist of my debate after the draft. We know what Jones brings to the table, and what his talent ceiling is. We've just tapped Dobbs's talent. Unless there's a need for a strong locker room presence, I think it may be possible we see Jones exit (keeping in mind this is just the first game, and all, and things can change).

The one thing I said about Dobbs last year and it has remained true this year, he does not make the same mistake twice. The kid is smart and moreover, puts those smarts to work. While I don't think he'll ever make a good starter over a sixteen-game season, he'll be a solid spot-starter and very good backup in this league.

DesertSteel
08-10-2018, 12:00 AM
Other than the one throw he looked like the same Dobbs to me.

HollywoodSteel
08-10-2018, 12:12 AM
The one thing I said about Dobbs last year and it has remained true this year, he does not make the same mistake twice.

Yes, but if he finds a new way to make a mistake on every play, I’m not sure that matters. ;

I guess I don’t really care what his upside is if we’re not grooming him to be the starter. I care about who is the better QB THIS YEAR between Dobbs and Jones. That’s it. The #3 QB spot is not the place to groom your future #2. It’s the place for the third best QB. We can worry about our future number 2... well, never.

We groom our future #1. No other Grooming. We’ll worry about Rudolph’s back up when Ben retires. We don’t need to hold a spot for that guy unless he’s ALREADY in the top 3.

hawaiiansteeler
08-10-2018, 12:13 AM
Other than the one throw he looked like the same Dobbs to me.

:iagree:

86WARD
08-10-2018, 09:35 AM
He wasn’t impressive enough to unseat Landry. If the Steelers weren’t in playoff contention maybe he would, but if Ben goes down for 6 games, they aren’t letting Dobbs run the offense over Landry...not saying they would give it to Landry either, but at this stage, they go with the one with more veteran experience unless the talent level outweighs it...which at this point, does not. Still some time though to see what Dobbs has.

AtlantaDan
08-10-2018, 09:43 AM
He wasn’t impressive enough to unseat Landry. If the Steelers weren’t in playoff contention maybe he would, but if Ben goes down for 6 games, they aren’t letting Dobbs run the offense over Landry...not saying they would give it to Landry either, but at this stage, they go with the one with more veteran experience unless the talent level outweighs it...which at this point, does not. Still some time though to see what Dobbs has.

Since Ben's preseason work probably will be two series in preseason game three maybe give Dobbs a shot in the first half of that game with better players on both sides of the ball if you want to showcase Dobbs for a possible trade?

Hate to just waive a fourth round QB pick in his second year. But I cannot imagine the Steelers would gamble with Dobbs & Rudolph as the backups to Ben and no way Dobbs makes it to the practice squad - someone will sign him if he is not traded.

Rotorhead
08-10-2018, 09:51 AM
What about this scenario, I am reading that the Rams have a big need for a backup, what if we could trade Landry to the Rams for an above average ILB?

GBMelBlount
08-10-2018, 09:52 AM
Other than the one throw he looked like the same Dobbs to me.

Agree.

All I care about is that they are able to play Dobbs enough over the next several games that they can make the right choice.

DesertSteel
08-10-2018, 11:06 AM
Agree.

All I care about is that they are able to play Dobbs enough over the next several games that they can make the right choice.

The one TD throw was a penalty throw so credit gets reduced a little for that. IMO he still has the happy feet deer in the headlights look. I just don't see any way he stays other than PS. The one possibility is if MR shows enough to make Landry expendable. Then we can trade Landry for a second round pick (LOL).

steelreserve
08-10-2018, 11:27 AM
Jones is about a D+ quarterback and isn't going to improve any further. Dobbs is about a straight D and might improve or might not. Furthermore, Jones might have some trade value but Dobbs almost certainly has none.

I'd take the guy who might have a higher ceiling. If we get down to the third-string quarterback in the regular season, make no mistake, we are fucked. Choosing between a D and a D+ doesn't really make any difference.

If Dobbs turns out to be a B or a B- though, that makes a huge difference.

In other words, between these two guys, the only path potentially leading to anything other than a miserable failure is if Dobbs improves. So you go with that and shouldn't even have to think hard about it.

Dwinsgames
08-10-2018, 12:09 PM
The one TD throw was a penalty throw so credit gets reduced a little for that. IMO he still has the happy feet deer in the headlights look. I just don't see any way he stays other than PS. The one possibility is if MR shows enough to make Landry expendable. Then we can trade Landry for a second round pick (LOL).

can we not say the same of Jones ? his only TD pass was on a penalty at the LOS he seen the flag and took a shot , poorly thrown jump ball to JuJU who make an outstanding play to high point the ball come down with it break a tackle and score the TD .... that play had way more to do with JuJu than it did Jones ..

everything else Jones completed was 10 yards or less

DesertSteel
08-10-2018, 01:08 PM
can we not say the same of Jones ? his only TD pass was on a penalty at the LOS he seen the flag and took a shot , poorly thrown jump ball to JuJU who make an outstanding play to high point the ball come down with it break a tackle and score the TD .... that play had way more to do with JuJu than it did Jones ..

everything else Jones completed was 10 yards or less
The difference is that Jones has a larger body of work and REAL game experience. That is what's keeping him on the roster more than a quarter of play in preseason game 1.

Dobbs is fighting an uphill battle and I think how Rudolph does is more important for his future than how he does. Rudolph needs to light it up and bump Jones from the #2.

I liked what I saw from Rudolph last night except the fumble.

Craic
08-10-2018, 02:00 PM
The difference is that Jones has a larger body of work and REAL game experience. That is what's keeping him on the roster more than a quarter of play in preseason game 1.

Dobbs is fighting an uphill battle and I think how Rudolph does is more important for his future than how he does. Rudolph needs to light it up and bump Jones from the #2.

I liked what I saw from Rudolph last night except the fumble.

Except, Rudolph did about as much as Dobbs, only, he did very little of it from under center. I don't doubt Rudolph has a much higher ceiling, and will get there much faster, but what I don't understand is the dislike of Dobbs who had a very similar game, except he was able to escape sacks. I honestly think that if Rudolph and Dobbs both improve each of the next three games, we just might finally see the end of Landry, whose real game experience shows him to be a QB we can't depend on to win unless we're playing the Browns.

And, to head off the inevitable (General, not directed at you, DS) "But this is Rudolph's first year and Dobbs's second, so we should have seen more from Dobbs!" No. Why? Because Dobbs played against a higher class of defense than Rudolph. As such, they played their equals. Had Dobbs played in Rudolph's position, there's every reason to assume he would have had an even better game because he was playing against lower competition and Rudolph would have had a worse game because he was playing stronger competition. Now, again, let me stress. This isn't a once and for all assessment of Rudolph. It's merely what happened in this game.

Oh, and as to the penalty throw... I disagree completely. It takes a presence of mind to recognize the penalty, to know who it was called on, and then take advantage of it. We all expect that happen every time because we're used to seeing seasoned NFL QBs do that, but it is something learned, and both Landry and Dobbs showed it last night, which makes me happy. (Rudolph, I'm sure, will pick it up soon at the NFL speed if he hasn't already).

DesertSteel
08-10-2018, 02:34 PM
Rudolph looked calmer than Dobbs to me. For me, that says as much as anything else.

hawaiiansteeler
08-10-2018, 02:38 PM
Dobbs will be the odd man out, if Ben gets injured the Steelers are not going to want Dobbs or Rudolph having to start.

BlackAndGold
08-10-2018, 02:41 PM
Just build up some trade value Dobbs.

Edman
08-10-2018, 03:44 PM
Who says Josh Dobbs is the odd one out?

Let's be honest and real here. Landry Jones is not the answer under any circumstance. Period. He'll stick around because he's a vet, knows the offense and thus is a competent backup.

The biggest knock on Landry isn't that he's bad, he's incredibly safe. However, Landry doesn't inspire or rally. He's just a guy who is there. Take away the Juju Touchdown (that was a free play BTW) and it was just a typical Landry Jones game last night. Sleep-inducing. Safe. Uninspired. Landry does nothing special and inspires nothing special. He doesn't take command. He doesn't rally. Landry is the cream of the crap. Landry will not make the big mistake, but he will not make the plays to win the game either.

Like in the 2016 game against New England, where everyone says Landry played "good". He wasn't good. Landry didn't play like total garbage like we expected to, but he did nothing spectacular either. He was mediocre. I hope and pray the coaches and the FO don't fall for the Landry illusion like so many on here have. Beating shitty Browns teams doesn't make you a good quarterback.

All we can ask for Rudolph or Dobbs improves over the next few games. Those guys clearly have more on the table than Landry, let's just hope they do enough to stand out.

hawaiiansteeler
08-10-2018, 05:09 PM
Who says Josh Dobbs is the odd one out?

https://pics.me.me/thats-what-i-do-i-drinkand-i-know-things-25511952.png

DesertSteel
08-10-2018, 05:22 PM
Who says Josh Dobbs is the odd one out?

Let's be honest and real here. Landry Jones is not the answer under any circumstance. Period. He'll stick around because he's a vet, knows the offense and thus is a competent backup.

The biggest knock on Landry isn't that he's bad, he's incredibly safe. However, Landry doesn't inspire or rally. He's just a guy who is there. Take away the Juju Touchdown (that was a free play BTW) and it was just a typical Landry Jones game last night. Sleep-inducing. Safe. Uninspired. Landry does nothing special and inspires nothing special. He doesn't take command. He doesn't rally. Landry is the cream of the crap. Landry will not make the big mistake, but he will not make the plays to win the game either.

Like in the 2016 game against New England, where everyone says Landry played "good". He wasn't good. Landry didn't play like total garbage like we expected to, but he did nothing spectacular either. He was mediocre. I hope and pray the coaches and the FO don't fall for the Landry illusion like so many on here have. Beating shitty Browns teams doesn't make you a good quarterback.

All we can ask for Rudolph or Dobbs improves over the next few games. Those guys clearly have more on the table than Landry, let's just hope they do enough to stand out.
That's exactly what they want in a backup for 2-4 games. Help us go 1-1 or 2-2 until Ben gets back. Just don't lose the game.

Edman
08-10-2018, 07:01 PM
That's exactly what they want in a backup for 2-4 games. Help us go 1-1 or 2-2 until Ben gets back. Just don't lose the game.

Exactly, a backup. Not a quarterback worth keeping a roster spot open over other players. If "hold the fort until Ben gets back" is all the Steelers are concerned about with Landry, then this team has bigger problems than we thought.

The Steelers won't lose the game, but at the same time, Landry can't be counted on to win it either. That stuff may work against the winless Browns in Week 17, but against halfway competent opponents in critical games that may decide playoff seeding, that simply won't cut it. The Steelers can't hide Landry forever. Sooner or later he's going to have to make something happen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EyE8hAlufc

For all of the shit we gave Mike Vick in his time here (don't get me wrong, he was horrendous), he made critical plays to help them win in San Diego back in 2015. That long bomb to Wheaton, and the game-winning drive. If Vick doesn't pull it off, the 2015 Steelers don't even sniff the postseason. Put Landry in that same situation, does he pull it off?

There's a reason why the coaches decided to ride with Vick, as terrible as he was, over Landry (who at that point was in his third year in the offense) in the first place. You have to have a guy who can get the job done. Landry just does not inspire the confidence.

DesertSteel
08-10-2018, 07:59 PM
There's a reason that backup QBs last 10-12 years in the league and then become head coaches...

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-10-2018, 08:00 PM
I thought Dobbs made some good intermediate throws and seemed quicker in decision making than last year. I also saw a couple bad decisions, one of which was the INT as he likely should have thrown it to the deep receiver. I also saw him a bit quick to take his eyes off downfield and to the rushers rather than his receivers. That was the same as last season. Also, the option pitch is a TD if he keeps, it but we arent looking to evaluate an option QB IMO.

Still, an improvement but I dont know if its enough to anoint him the #2 QB for the Steelers. I dont think Rudolph did anything to show that he is ready to be the #2, but will be the heir apparent and it sounds like he is progressing very well in camp.

86WARD
08-10-2018, 09:08 PM
What about this scenario, I am reading that the Rams have a big need for a backup, what if we could trade Landry to the Rams for an above average ILB?

Anything would be better than Matekevich. Even Shazier in his current condition might be comparable...and that may not be as big a joke as you’d think...

86WARD
08-10-2018, 09:10 PM
can we not say the same of Jones ? his only TD pass was on a penalty at the LOS he seen the flag and took a shot , poorly thrown jump ball to JuJU who make an outstanding play to high point the ball come down with it break a tackle and score the TD .... that play had way more to do with JuJu than it did Jones ..

everything else Jones completed was 10 yards or less

Was it really poorly thrown or was it thrown to a point where JuJu could get it and not the DB?

Steelerette
08-10-2018, 09:54 PM
Dobbs is practice squad eligible. Stash him there this year, nobody's going to take him. Let Landry play out this last year of his contract; next year Rudolph will be ready to be the primary backup. Next offseason we can worry about whether Dobbs is good enough to be the thirdstringer, or if Landry will want to stick around for the honor.

Craic
08-11-2018, 01:20 AM
I don't think he stays all year on the practice squad. Too much upside. Someone will take advantage of his availability.

Dwinsgames
08-11-2018, 08:46 AM
I don't think he stays all year on the practice squad. Too much upside. Someone will take advantage of his availability.

and I doubt he clears waivers , someone else will snag him and get an in person look ...QB is the hardest roster spot to fill with players with upside and potential ... Dobbs has both ..

DesertSteel
08-11-2018, 09:40 AM
He's going to go on "injured" reserve and be the #3 next year.

Dwinsgames
08-11-2018, 01:36 PM
He's going to go on "injured" reserve and be the #3 next year.


this would make the most sense a phantom injury... Dobbs will be happy getting active roster pay vs practice squad pay

GoSlash27
08-12-2018, 01:26 PM
I don't see Dobbs making the squad over Jones, even if he does have a higher ceiling and more talent. The Steelers are pretty risk- averse when it comes to backup QBs, and Jones is a known quantity.

Best,
-Slashy

Dwinsgames
08-13-2018, 05:28 PM
not " Steelers" but same kind of situation


1029130244152672256

Dwinsgames
08-13-2018, 08:09 PM
1029113904679411712

the more 1st team reps Mason gets the more likely Dobbs stays IMO

Mojouw
08-14-2018, 10:29 AM
1029113904679411712

the more 1st team reps Mason gets the more likely Dobbs stays IMO

Going with the theory that Rudolph is the #2/starter in waiting and Dobbs is the developmental lottery ticket while Jones moves on?

Dwinsgames
08-14-2018, 10:48 AM
Going with the theory that Rudolph is the #2/starter in waiting and Dobbs is the developmental lottery ticket while Jones moves on?

that is my hopes ...

I have no confidence in Jones and feel as if we have a very good chance of LOSING any game he is asked to start ...

with the other two guys I feel like sure it is uncharted water but good things can happen and I have hope for that ...

Jones I just have to pray he completes 8-9 passes and doesn't throw any picks and we run the ball like crazed fools because he wont throw it further than 10 yards ( always checks down ) he skips most of the reads and goes directly to the checkdown .... and if he plays his game to perfection we might not lose , but 1 mistake and its almost a certainty we lose because he can not bring us back from a deficit the way he plays the game ...

I take my chances because in the end I know without Ben at this Juncture who the back up is is really immaterial if we have to play 4 or more games without Ben so why not be developing Potential instead of spending quality snaps on what we already know is not enough in Jones

Edman
08-14-2018, 12:32 PM
Dobbs and Rudolph are the only QB's playing against Green Bay Thursday.

Dwinsgames
08-14-2018, 01:47 PM
Dobbs and Rudolph are the only QB's playing against Green Bay Thursday.

sink or swim .... here is your chance to solidify yourself

teegre
08-14-2018, 02:01 PM
I take my chances because in the end I know without Ben at this Juncture who the back up is is really immaterial if we have to play 4 or more games without Ben so why not be developing Potential instead of spending quality snaps on what we already know is not enough in Jones

That’s my sentiment, too.

GoSlash27
08-14-2018, 02:16 PM
Dobbs and Rudolph are the only QB's playing against Green Bay Thursday.

This tells me that Jones is in, and Dobbs/ Rudolph are being evaluated against each other.
Best,
-Slashy

Craic
08-15-2018, 09:09 AM
This tells me that Jones is in, and Dobbs/ Rudolph are being evaluated against each other.
Best,
-Slashy
It tells me the Steelers know what they have in Jones and want to see if they have something more in Dobbs and Rudolph. If they do, then Jones is out.

86WARD
08-15-2018, 09:47 AM
It tells me the Steelers know what they have in Jones and want to see if they have something more in Dobbs and Rudolph. If they do, then Jones is out.

That would be awesome if they could get rid of Jones and maybe even get a high round draft pick for him...

Dwinsgames
08-15-2018, 11:33 AM
It tells me the Steelers know what they have in Jones and want to see if they have something more in Dobbs and Rudolph. If they do, then Jones is out.

that is exactly what it tells me

tube517
08-15-2018, 12:20 PM
that is exactly what it tells me

I agree. Jones has played almost every preseason game AND every game that Ben has been out in the last few years. They don't need to see anymore.

Dwinsgames
08-15-2018, 12:30 PM
I agree. Jones has played almost every preseason game AND every game that Ben has been out in the last few years. They don't need to see anymore.

can't polish a turd , but you can polish a diamond in the rough

Dwinsgames
08-16-2018, 10:39 PM
Dobbs will not go down without a fight , nice night for the kid ... ( one of the few bright spots )

Edman
08-16-2018, 11:09 PM
Two Pick sixes between Dobbs and Rudolph spoil otherwise rather decent nights by both of them.

Dwinsgames
08-17-2018, 12:03 PM
12-18-192 yards 2tds 1int 29 yards rushing on 5 carries ....

serious question has Jones ever had a stat line that good in the NFL any game preseason /regular season ...EVER ?

rating ? 115.97

DesertSteel
08-17-2018, 12:12 PM
12-18-192 yards 2tds 1int 29 yards rushing on 5 carries ....

serious question has Jones ever had a stat line that good in the NFL any game preseason /regular season ...EVER ?

rating ? 115.97

Last game he played, 8 months ago: 23/27, 239, 1/1 and a WIN -- against actual NFL players (albeit the Browns). The guys Dobbs was playing against last night won't be in the NFL next month.

You can make the argument that Jones sucks and even that the stat line above sucks, but to do so by using Dobbs performance against that crappy level of defense is funny.

Dwinsgames
08-17-2018, 12:14 PM
Last game he played, 8 months ago: 23/27, 239, 1/1 and a WIN -- against actual NFL players (albeit the Browns). The guys Dobbs was playing against last night won't be in the NFL next month.

You can make the argument that Jones sucks and even that the stat line above sucks, but to do so by using Dobbs performance against that crappy level of defense is funny.


I did qualify it as any game ever in the NFL preseason /reg season .... ( Jones has sucked in many preseason games vs guys out of the league )

for the record that would be a passer rating of 100.46 ....

AtlantaDan
08-17-2018, 12:16 PM
12-18-192 yards 2tds 1int 29 yards rushing on 5 carries ....

serious question has Jones ever had a stat line that good in the NFL any game preseason /regular season ...EVER ?

rating ? 115.97

When Jones was subbed in for Vick in the second half and the Steelers beat Arians & the Cardinals in 2015 his stats were as follows for less than 2 quarters of play

8-12 168 yards 2 TD 0 INT 149.3 rating

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400791621







His performance in week 17 in 2017 against the Browns also was not too shabby (DesertSteel beat me to posting this line)
23-27 239 yards 1 TD 1 INT 100.5 rating

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400951762

DesertSteel
08-17-2018, 12:19 PM
I did qualify it as any game ever in the NFL preseason /reg season .... ( Jones has sucked in many preseason games vs guys out of the league )

for the record that would be a passer rating of 100.46 ....
And that sucks?

- - - Updated - - -

Bottom line is that the season is toast if any or all of the three backups are forced into extended action.

steelreserve
08-17-2018, 12:21 PM
can't polish a turd , but you can polish a diamond in the rough

Correction - you can definitely polish a turd, you will just get shit all over yourself.

Dwinsgames
08-17-2018, 12:23 PM
And that sucks?

- - - Updated - - -

Bottom line is that the season is toast if any or all of the three backups are forced into extended action.

first statement ... its not as good ...

the bold is 100% #truth
that is why I would rather keep upside vs a known not good enough

- - - Updated - - -


Correction - you can definitely polish a turd, you will just get shit all over yourself.

sounds like you are speaking from experience ? haha

I will just have to take your word on this one bro lmao

DesertSteel
08-17-2018, 12:32 PM
first statement ... its not as good ...

the bold is 100% #truth
that is why I would rather keep upside vs a known not good enough

- - - Updated - - -



sounds like you are speaking from experience ? haha

I will just have to take your word on this one bro lmao
I'd rather keep a safe 1-1 or 2-2 QB on the roster vs. two QBs that have never taken an NFL snap. Jones has proven to be the latter with a record of 3-2. I don't really care if he's #2 or #3 as long as there is some experience in the backup role. Upside can fill the other position but the problem is that there's two of them and Rudolph is likely going to be the guy. They aren't going to cut a guy that they've said had a first round grade. It's a numbers game.

Dwinsgames
08-17-2018, 02:01 PM
I'd rather keep a safe 1-1 or 2-2 QB on the roster vs. two QBs that have never taken an NFL snap. Jones has proven to be the latter with a record of 3-2. I don't really care if he's #2 or #3 as long as there is some experience in the backup role. Upside can fill the other position but the problem is that there's two of them and Rudolph is likely going to be the guy. They aren't going to cut a guy that they've said had a first round grade. It's a numbers game.


I get what you are saying I really do ... and if I saw even a little more from Jones I would probably be there with you , but I do not so I can not ..

DesertSteel
08-17-2018, 02:27 PM
I get what you are saying I really do ... and if I saw even a little more from Jones I would probably be there with you , but I do not so I can not ..
I hear you... I do think Jones is better than he was and more comfortable in the system. I think the coaching staff feels that way about him too. Maybe Dobbs impresses the next couple games and keeps him as the #2... we'll see. It's not like there won't be an experienced backup available down the road. Other teams find them.

pczach
08-17-2018, 07:33 PM
I still like the idea that Dobbs gives you an alternative from a scheme aspect.

He is very athletic, which means he is able to give the RPO looks to defenses while still being able to operate the same offense Ben runs from the pocket. It's something that they can go to more if they choose.

I also disagree with some that are saying that all these quarterbacks are garbage. I think the Steelers have done better with all four QBs on the roster than they did with the turnstile of losers they mostly had for 20-something years between Bradshaw and Ben. They are not getting complete stiffs. All these guys can play a little bit, and in the case of Dobbs and Rudolph, they are very young and should get much better.

I have no idea who they plan on keeping, but I like the idea of Dobbs and Rudolph going forward.

Let's also not forget that these backups aren't playing with AB, Martavis Bryant, Bell, etc... They are going out there and playing with rookies and backups. Jones has gotten a ton of time playing with all the weapons in the game. I would love to see what Dobbs and Rudolph could do with all weapons in place, but that isn't going to happen in preseason.

Is it possible someone is willing to give up a decent draft pick for Jones? I doubt it, but who knows.

This is going to be interesting.

st33lersguy
08-17-2018, 07:59 PM
Dobbs has showed promise, he could be a solid backup with continued work. If they cut Dobbs, someone else will snatch him up

GBMelBlount
08-17-2018, 08:32 PM
If Dobbs & Rudolph become 2 & 3 I am fine with that.

However, I am not sure why there is all this hand-wringing about the sky falling if Jones had to play more than 4 games.

He could probably play half the season and we would still have a very good chance of making the playoffs.

Dwinsgames
08-17-2018, 09:33 PM
If Dobbs & Rudolph become 2 & 3 I am fine with that.

However, I am not sure why there is all this hand-wringing about the sky falling if Jones had to play more than 4 games.

He could probably play half the season and we would still have a very good chance of making the playoffs.


maybe if we play the browns 8 times in a row :)

I kid I kid

well sort of

pepsyman1
08-18-2018, 12:29 AM
Dobbs and Rudolph is a fine plan as far as I'm concerned. Dobbs has obviously progressed from last year, Rudolph was drafted with the idea that he could be the future. If we're able to keep them both we can see who really pans out to take over for Ben. Dobbs is looking comfortable enough at this point that I think he could step into the number 2 spot pretty easily. I'd start seeing what I could get for Jones. As someone else said, he's mediocre. Mediocre describes most of the backups in the league and someone is sure to need that. We might be able to get something useful for him. If both the new guys develop well, then down the line one of them can be our Jimmy Garoppolo and we trade him for something good.

Born2Steel
08-18-2018, 12:38 AM
Point #1...We do know what we have with Jones.

Point #2...Dobbs is progressing.

Point #3...Rudolph makes the same mistakes as a rookie would.

Landry Jones will be the backup this season. Just like when Ben was drafted, the Steelers will carry 4 QBs into the reg season.

Butch
08-18-2018, 05:22 AM
Dobbs and Rudolph is a fine plan as far as I'm concerned. Dobbs has obviously progressed from last year, Rudolph was drafted with the idea that he could be the future. If we're able to keep them both we can see who really pans out to take over for Ben. Dobbs is looking comfortable enough at this point that I think he could step into the number 2 spot pretty easily. I'd start seeing what I could get for Jones. As someone else said, he's mediocre. Mediocre describes most of the backups in the league and someone is sure to need that. We might be able to get something useful for him. If both the new guys develop well, then down the line one of them can be our Jimmy Garoppolo and we trade him for something good.
I would be shocked if that happens. On both of Dobbs TD passes he was short and if not for an excellent effort by Washington they would have both been Intercepted. Rudolph has played like a rookie staring down receivers and just hasn't impressed me that much either. That being said one is only a 2nd year player and the other is a rookie playing like a rookie. I just don't see it happening. As much as Jones is average he's got experience. If anything I would lean that we keep all 4 as stated by Born2Steel.

Mojouw
08-18-2018, 09:42 AM
I think it is a question of what the team decides to value. Looking at recent QB trades, Landry Jones will not bring back anything aside from a conditional 6th or 7th round pick. Maybe a tick more if there is a rash of QB injuries and someone freaks out. Dobbs would bring less of a return and Rudolph isn’t being moved. So, most likely, a trade is off the table unless it is a player for player — say Jones for a depth LBer or something.

Rudolph makes the team unless he kills a member of the Rooney family. Ben does even if he helps Rudolph hide the body, Personally, I would go with Dobbs based on the old Tom Moore quote that were are F$#@ed if the back-up plays anyways.

AtlantaDan
08-18-2018, 10:39 AM
Rudolph makes the team unless he kills a member of the Rooney family. Ben does even if he helps Rudolph hide the body

Ben would help hide the body then dime out Rudolph on his Tuesday morning radio show to deep six the career of his heir apparent :chuckle:

Mojouw
08-18-2018, 11:02 AM
Ben would help hide the body then dime out Rudolph on his Tuesday morning radio show to deep six the career of his heir apparent :chuckle:

https://mistressprime.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/spittake-cartoon.jpg?w=300&h=179&crop=1

GoSlash27
08-18-2018, 11:35 AM
were are F$#@ed if the back-up plays anyways.

Landry Jones' regular season record thus far:
2015 5-2, 77.3 passer rating
2016 5-3, 86.3 passer rating
2017 3-0, 99.3 passer rating
----------------
Total 13-5, 85.0

2018 preseason 1-0, 158.3 passer rating.

I wouldn't call these numbers "F$#@ed".
I don't see them dumping Jones this season. Perhaps next year, once Rudoloph or Dobbs is developed enough to take on the backup role.

Best,
-Slashy

86WARD
08-18-2018, 11:46 AM
They are too close to dump jones. In their mind, Jones gives them the best chance to go 3-3 if Ben is out 6 games. If Ben were out for a full season, that’s a different story. I’d be shocked if they let Landry go...although I’d welcome it. I’d rather just see them throw Rudolph into the fire.

Shoes
08-18-2018, 12:30 PM
I still like the idea that Dobbs gives you an alternative from a scheme aspect.

He is very athletic, which means he is able to give the RPO looks to defenses while still being able to operate the same offense Ben runs from the pocket. It's something that they can go to more if they choose.

I also disagree with some that are saying that all these quarterbacks are garbage. I think the Steelers have done better with all four QBs on the roster than they did with the turnstile of losers they mostly had for 20-something years between Bradshaw and Ben. They are not getting complete stiffs. All these guys can play a little bit, and in the case of Dobbs and Rudolph, they are very young and should get much better.

I have no idea who they plan on keeping, but I like the idea of Dobbs and Rudolph going forward.

Let's also not forget that these backups aren't playing with AB, Martavis Bryant, Bell, etc... They are going out there and playing with rookies and backups. Jones has gotten a ton of time playing with all the weapons in the game. I would love to see what Dobbs and Rudolph could do with all weapons in place, but that isn't going to happen in preseason.

Is it possible someone is willing to give up a decent draft pick for Jones? I doubt it, but who knows.

This is going to be interesting.


Agreed.

DesertSteel
08-18-2018, 01:03 PM
Landry Jones' regular season record thus far:
2015 5-2, 77.3 passer rating
2016 5-3, 86.3 passer rating
2017 3-0, 99.3 passer rating
----------------
Total 13-5, 85.0

2018 preseason 1-0, 158.3 passer rating.

I wouldn't call these numbers "F$#@ed".
I don't see them dumping Jones this season. Perhaps next year, once Rudoloph or Dobbs is developed enough to take on the backup role.

Best,
-Slashy
What the heck are you talking about?! Landry Jones hasn't started 18 games lol.

Mojouw
08-18-2018, 01:24 PM
From Pro Football Reference for Landry Jones



















Year

Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
QBR
Sk
Yds
NY/A
ANY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD
AV


2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm)

3
1
0

0
0

0
0

0

0



0.0


0
0





0


2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
25
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2014.htm)

3
0


0
0

0
0

0

0






0
0



0
0



2015 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/)
26
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2015.htm)
qb
3
7
2
1-1-0
32
55
58.2
513
3
5.5
4
7.3
88
9.3
7.1
16.0
73.3
77.3
43.8
2
17
8.70
6.60
3.5
0
1
1


2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/)
27
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2016.htm)
qb
3
8
2
1-1-0
53
86
61.6
558
4
4.7
2
2.3
51
6.5
6.4
10.5
69.8
86.3
43.8
4
34
5.82
5.71
4.4
1
1
2


2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/)
28
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2017.htm)
qb
3
3
1
1-0-0
23
28
82.1
239
1
3.6
1
3.6
46
8.5
7.6
10.4
79.7
99.3
67.0
3
15
7.23
6.42
9.7


1


Career



19
5
3-2-0
108
169
63.9
1310
8
4.7
7
4.1
88
7.8
6.8
12.1
68.9
86.2

9
66
6.99
6.12
5.1
1
2
4



So Landry is not good.

He completes a decent # of passes for not very many yards and turns the ball over as often as he generates touchdowns.

DesertSteel
08-18-2018, 01:40 PM
So Landry is not good.

He completes a decent # of passes for not very many yards and turns the ball over as often as he generates touchdowns.
To his credit, he has a better career record than Deshaun Watson (3-3) LOL...

HollywoodSteel
08-18-2018, 02:15 PM
To his credit, he has a better career record than Deshaun Watson (3-3) LOL...

Okay, I’m sold. We trade Jones for Watson. ;)

Then Ben signs a three year deal at a bargain-basement price so he doesn’t lose his job.

Then we trade Watson for the best inside linebacker there is (on a team that needs a QB upgrade) AND we’ll have the money to pay him.

Or we keep Watson as the best backup in the NFL... until Ben throws his first incomplete pass and the crowd turns on him, cheering to replace him with Watson.

Then the press start foaming at the mouth about “Steelers drama.”

In any scenario, things get much more interesting.

I like the way you think, DesertSteel! ;)

BlackAndGold
08-18-2018, 03:05 PM
Jones is a vet that knows the playbook inside and out, his job is safe. I won't be shocked if he's on this team for most of his career, or until the team no longer wants him.

The hope for Dobbs Imo was always to build some type of trade value. Really hoping some team that needs youth at their QB depth chart has interest. Don't care for any late round pick. Saints(Craig Robertson) and Miami(Stephone Anthony) has some LB depth I would be interested in.

Dwinsgames
08-18-2018, 03:41 PM
Landry Jones' regular season record thus far:
2015 5-2, 77.3 passer rating
2016 5-3, 86.3 passer rating
2017 3-0, 99.3 passer rating
----------------
Total 13-5, 85.0

2018 preseason 1-0, 158.3 passer rating.

I wouldn't call these numbers "F$#@ed".
I don't see them dumping Jones this season. Perhaps next year, once Rudoloph or Dobbs is developed enough to take on the backup role.

Best,
-Slashy

sorry but this is #FAKENEWS

- - - Updated - - -


From Pro Football Reference for Landry Jones



















Year
Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
QBR
Sk
Yds
NY/A
ANY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD
AV


2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm)

3
1
0

0
0

0
0

0

0



0.0


0
0





0


2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
25
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2014.htm)

3
0


0
0

0
0

0

0






0
0



0
0



2015 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/)
26
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2015.htm)
qb
3
7
2
1-1-0
32
55
58.2
513
3
5.5
4
7.3
88
9.3
7.1
16.0
73.3
77.3
43.8
2
17
8.70
6.60
3.5
0
1
1


2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/)
27
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2016.htm)
qb
3
8
2
1-1-0
53
86
61.6
558
4
4.7
2
2.3
51
6.5
6.4
10.5
69.8
86.3
43.8
4
34
5.82
5.71
4.4
1
1
2


2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/)
28
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2017.htm)
qb
3
3
1
1-0-0
23
28
82.1
239
1
3.6
1
3.6
46
8.5
7.6
10.4
79.7
99.3
67.0
3
15
7.23
6.42
9.7


1


Career



19
5
3-2-0
108
169
63.9
1310
8
4.7
7
4.1
88
7.8
6.8
12.1
68.9
86.2

9
66
6.99
6.12
5.1
1
2
4



So Landry is not good.

He completes a decent # of passes for not very many yards and turns the ball over as often as he generates touchdowns.

Checkdown is his middle name

pczach
08-18-2018, 03:58 PM
I would be shocked if that happens. On both of Dobbs TD passes he was short and if not for an excellent effort by Washington they would have both been Intercepted. Rudolph has played like a rookie staring down receivers and just hasn't impressed me that much either. That being said one is only a 2nd year player and the other is a rookie playing like a rookie. I just don't see it happening. As much as Jones is average he's got experience. If anything I would lean that we keep all 4 as stated by Born2Steel.


Landry Jones's only significant completion this year was a long touchdown pass that he underthrew by 10 or 15 yards to a wide open receiver. Are you really going to use that argument against Dobbs?

I'm not saying that keeping Landry Jones is wrong. But let's not pretend that Jones is this grizzled veteran quarterback that makes all the reads and throws while showing great leadership. Jones still makes terrible reads and throws. I believe that Dobbs is further ahead of where Jones was at this stage of his career. He has much more athleticism, and he adds flexibility of scheme with a higher ceiling IMO.

Anyway....I guess we'll find out what they do soon enough. Maybe they do keep 4 and hope to get a good offer in a trade.

HollywoodSteel
08-18-2018, 04:02 PM
sorry but this is #FAKENEWS

- - - Updated - - -



Checkdown is his middle name

I don’t see how the second chart contradicts the first one, making it “Fake News.”

Unless you mean the first chart is ACCURATE but also MISLEADING. Those 19 games or whatever he played in were not all starts. Some games were clean up duty where the other team expected a run and he completed a short pass.

And the last game he DID start was the last regular season game against the winless Browns.

So I agree, statistics can paint an incomplete, and misleading picture.

HollywoodSteel
08-18-2018, 04:07 PM
That said, I’m not sure it’s a case for keeping Dobbs over him. Jones has been okay at what he’s been asked to do.

The question is who makes a better #2 THIS YEAR, where we could still make the playoffs if Ben were out for 4 games and we went 2-2.

Which one of our backups would you want for that 4 game stretch THIS YEAR?

GoSlash27
08-18-2018, 04:45 PM
I don’t see how the second chart contradicts the first one, making it “Fake News.”

Unless you mean the first chart is ACCURATE but also MISLEADING. Those 19 games or whatever he played in were not all starts. Some games were clean up duty where the other team expected a run and he completed a short pass.

^ Which is entirely my point; This is what a backup QB does and it's Jones' established record as a backup. This is why the Steelers will keep him on the roster; he can step in at a moment's notice cold with no snaps, use the entire playbook, and not cost us a season. Rudolph and/ or Dobbs are not competing for the role of backup, they are competing for the role of next franchise QB.

Best,
-Slashy

Butch
08-18-2018, 05:00 PM
Landry Jones's only significant completion this year was a long touchdown pass that he underthrew by 10 or 15 yards to a wide open receiver. Are you really going to use that argument against Dobbs?

I'm not saying that keeping Landry Jones is wrong. But let's not pretend that Jones is this grizzled veteran quarterback that makes all the reads and throws while showing great leadership. Jones still makes terrible reads and throws. I believe that Dobbs is further ahead of where Jones was at this stage of his career. He has much more athleticism, and he adds flexibility of scheme with a higher ceiling IMO.

Anyway....I guess we'll find out what they do soon enough. Maybe they do keep 4 and hope to get a good offer in a trade.

1st off I am not all that impressed with either one of them and Rudolph is a pure rookie. While the pass by Jones was definitely under thrown and also misplayed by the DB I am not sure it was any worse than the 2 throws that Dobbs had for a TD this week. I will say it is good to know that we have WRs who can make up for what could have been disastrous throws. While I say I am shocked please don't think I will be butt hurt if they don't keep Jones, it's more of how they say he knows the playbook and has the experience than anything I have seen on the field.

All of this just goes to show just how lucky we are to have Ben. Cherish him while you can, because his replacement may be a loooong time coming.

Dwinsgames
08-18-2018, 05:20 PM
^ Which is entirely my point; This is what a backup QB does and it's Jones' established record as a backup. This is why the Steelers will keep him on the roster; he can step in at a moment's notice cold with no snaps, use the entire playbook, and not cost us a season. Rudolph and/ or Dobbs are not competing for the role of backup, they are competing for the role of next franchise QB.

Best,
-Slashy

entering a game with 4 mins left up by 27 points is no way indicative of the player you are nor should that be counted as a win on said players behalf ...hell even in baseball it wouldn't be counted as a save .... just no chance for the opponent to win to many points not near enough time

Dwinsgames
08-18-2018, 05:28 PM
there is this Mechanic in my small town , he has been a mechanic for 30+ years so he has a ton of experience .

the thing is , he is not a very good mechanic we will call him mechanic (A) , so if given the choice between taking my car to him or a new guy fresh out of tech school who opens up a shop on the other side of town knowing what I know about Mechanic (A) I personally take my car to the new guy and see what kind of service he offers and judge his abilities based on how well the job gets done moving forward ...

pczach
08-18-2018, 05:42 PM
1st off I am not all that impressed with either one of them and Rudolph is a pure rookie. While the pass by Jones was definitely under thrown and also misplayed by the DB I am not sure it was any worse than the 2 throws that Dobbs had for a TD this week. I will say it is good to know that we have WRs who can make up for what could have been disastrous throws. While I say I am shocked please don't think I will be butt hurt if they don't keep Jones, it's more of how they say he knows the playbook and has the experience than anything I have seen on the field.

All of this just goes to show just how lucky we are to have Ben. Cherish him while you can, because his replacement may be a loooong time coming.


I get what you're saying. I really do.

I don't think either of us will be crushed one way or the other if Jones or Dobbs is released. I'm not even sure what the correct thing to do is. I'm just hoping Dobbs gets a shot because that's who I think is the better choice.

You are 100% right about Ben. When his run is over, we will look back and realize how great he was and how hard it is to win without a guy like that behind center.

Butch
08-18-2018, 06:03 PM
there is this Mechanic in my small town , he has been a mechanic for 30+ years so he has a ton of experience .

the thing is , he is not a very good mechanic we will call him mechanic (A) , so if given the choice between taking my car to him or a new guy fresh out of tech school who opens up a shop on the other side of town knowing what I know about Mechanic (A) I personally take my car to the new guy and see what kind of service he offers and judge his abilities based on how well the job gets done moving forward ...

I remember a couple of QBs who were blessed with athletic ability (Tee Martin and Kordel Stewart). Neither was the QB we wanted them to be, but they sure had a ton of potential. It was truly a shame that Kordel didn't want to convert to a WR.

FWIW I really don't care who we keep of those 2 I am not really sure one will be better than the other. Maybe we keep both, or maybe one gets traded who knows. Experience vs Potential neither is a formula for success over the other IMHO. But at least it is something to watch and see how it all plays out.

Dwinsgames
08-18-2018, 06:24 PM
I remember a couple of QBs who were blessed with athletic ability (Tee Martin and Kordel Stewart). Neither was the QB we wanted them to be, but they sure had a ton of potential. It was truly a shame that Kordel didn't want to convert to a WR.

FWIW I really don't care who we keep of those 2 I am not really sure one will be better than the other. Maybe we keep both, or maybe one gets traded who knows. Experience vs Potential neither is a formula for success over the other IMHO. But at least it is something to watch and see how it all plays out.

Martins size was against him ( if memory serves ) and didnt get much of a chance ... Kordell , great athlete but was never and should have never been asked to become a pocket passer because once you take away his best asset as an athlete you where left with and average Joe under center ... If Cowher would have left him play his style of game he may be remembered more fondly .. roll out passes with the ability to run or pass on any given play because his legs where in fact weapons ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlQYIFDJLr8

Butch
08-18-2018, 06:46 PM
Martins size was against him ( if memory serves ) and didnt get much of a chance ... Kordell , great athlete but was never and should have never been asked to become a pocket passer because once you take away his best asset as an athlete you where left with and average Joe under center ... If Cowher would have left him play his style of game he may be remembered more fondly .. roll out passes with the ability to run or pass on any given play because his legs where in fact weapons ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlQYIFDJLr8

I have said the same thing about Ben. Yes it may have extended his career to keep him in the pocket but it took away some of what made him harder to defend.

As for Kordel he did play for 2 other teams and never saw a ton of success, but i never followed him so I don't know if the issue was him being a pocket passer or just damaged goods or just plain over the hill. He did start for da' bears and was a backup for the ravens.

GBMelBlount
08-18-2018, 06:50 PM
From Pro Football Reference for Landry Jones



















Year

Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
QBrec
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lng
Y/A
AY/A
Y/C
Y/G
Rate
QBR
Sk
Yds
NY/A
ANY/A
Sk%
4QC
GWD
AV


2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm)

3
1
0

0
0

0
0

0

0



0.0


0
0





0


2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
25
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2014.htm)

3
0


0
0

0
0

0

0






0
0



0
0



2015 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/)
26
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2015.htm)
qb
3
7
2
1-1-0
32
55
58.2
513
3
5.5
4
7.3
88
9.3
7.1
16.0
73.3
77.3
43.8
2
17
8.70
6.60
3.5
0
1
1


2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/)
27
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2016.htm)
qb
3
8
2
1-1-0
53
86
61.6
558
4
4.7
2
2.3
51
6.5
6.4
10.5
69.8
86.3
43.8
4
34
5.82
5.71
4.4
1
1
2


2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/)
28
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2017.htm)
qb
3
3
1
1-0-0
23
28
82.1
239
1
3.6
1
3.6
46
8.5
7.6
10.4
79.7
99.3
67.0
3
15
7.23
6.42
9.7


1


Career



19
5
3-2-0
108
169
63.9
1310
8
4.7
7
4.1
88
7.8
6.8
12.1
68.9
86.2

9
66
6.99
6.12
5.1
1
2
4



So Landry is not good.

He completes a decent # of passes for not very many yards and turns the ball over as often as he generates touchdowns.

Not many yards?

His yards per attempt and yards per catch are the same as future Hall of Famer Ben Roethlisberger. :nod:

He also has a .600 winning percentage...

Last year he completed 23 of 28 passes and is getting better every year.

So I think it is fair to say he is ALMOST a good backup. :chuckle:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-18-2018, 07:45 PM
Not many yards?

His yards per attempt and yards per catch are the same as future Hall of Famer Ben Roethlisberger. :nod:

He also has a .600 winning percentage...

Last year he completed 23 of 28 passes and is getting better every year.

So I think it is fair to say he is ALMOST a good backup. :chuckle:

Stack up his numbers against Charlie Batch for fun.

I think you will see a quick rush to the defense with the Batch homers/Landry haters. :willy:

HollywoodSteel
08-18-2018, 10:20 PM
Not many yards?

His yards per attempt and yards per catch are the same as future Hall of Famer Ben Roethlisberger. :nod:

He also has a .600 winning percentage...

Last year he completed 23 of 28 passes and is getting better every year.

So I think it is fair to say he is ALMOST a good backup. :chuckle:

I’m sorry but I refuse to include that Jones’s stats in a no pressure game against a winless team. Take that start away and he is 2-2 as a starter. Okay. His yards per attempt were like 9 and then 6.5. Okay. His ratings were 77 and 86.

He’s okay, almost.

He also had better defenses those years. But he’s still probably the safe bet.

GoSlash27
08-19-2018, 07:12 AM
I personally take my car to the new guy and see what kind of service he offers and judge his abilities based on how well the job gets done moving forward ...

Suppose it's not *your* car, but rather your boss' car and you may well get fired if it gets screwed up. Who do you go with then?

And your analogy is suspect because it assumes that 'a QB is a QB' and the only factor in the equation is athletic ability. The backup role demands maturity, experience, and leadership, even moreso than a starter.
Rudolph and Dobbs are not prepared to do that at this point in their career. Jones is.

Finally, I think you're arguing what you believe "should" happen rather than what you believe "will" happen, and you're arguing with people who literally have no say in the matter.

Best,
-Slashy

GoSlash27
08-19-2018, 07:23 AM
Take that start away and he is 2-2 as a starter.

Hollywood,
Ah, but we're not talking about "starter", we're talking about "backup". ;) The starter has the luxury of practice. The backup doesn't. The starter can afford to screw up and take time to get into rhythm. The backup can't.
You really can't evaluate a backup by their starting stats.

Best,
-Slashy

GBMelBlount
08-19-2018, 08:32 AM
I’m sorry but I refuse to include that Jones’s stats in a no pressure game against a winless team. Take that start away and he is 2-2 as a starter. Okay. His yards per attempt were like 9 and then 6.5. Okay. His ratings were 77 and 86.

He’s okay, almost.

He also had better defenses those years.

But he’s (Jones) still probably the safe bet.

I agree.

On a side note, wasn't Ben losing to that same winless team until the very end of the game?

DesertSteel
08-19-2018, 03:21 PM
You really can't evaluate a backup by their starting stats.

Wut??? What else are you going to evaluate them on? How they hold the clipboard? Your backup needs to be ready to play 2-3 games a year in the NFL; if he can't perform in that scenario he doesn't need to be your #2. Developmental QBs are best suited for #3's, but your #2 needs to be able to start and play average/slightly above average.

GoSlash27
08-19-2018, 04:12 PM
DesertSteel,
You judge them by their ability to step into a game cold and not screw the pooch. Their knowledge of the offense (players and playbook), maturity, poise, confidence, and ability to inspire and lead the offense in an emergency. And yeah... somewhere in there not being an awful QB.
The problem is the stats themselves don't say who is a good backup and who's not, especially if you start cherry picking which stats count and which don't.
My entire point is that with the stats on record, we know that we are not "screwed" if Ben goes down because Jones has proven that he can hold the fort. What's more important is that he has the confidence of the offense, coaching staff, and head office to step in in a crisis and employ the entire playbook and exercise judgement.
So yeah... I don't see Jones' job in jeopardy this year. Perhaps next year. In the meantime, I see Rudolph and Dobbs in competition with each other for the "development QB" role.

Best,
-Slashy

AtlantaDan
08-19-2018, 05:14 PM
What's more important is that he has the confidence of the offense

^^^^^^^^
This

One of the themes of the offseason is to try to cut down on the drama from 2017.

Ben already pitched a fit when Rudolph was drafted. Ben likes Jones for reasons including Landry never having been a threat to replace him.

Moreover, the O-line probably likes another vet like Jones being available to step in - when Ben replaced Maddox in 2004, this was the response of Alan Faneca

Co-captain Alan Faneca (http://www.espn.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4288) sounded less than thrilled when he discussed the prospect of a rookie leading the charge against the Dolphins.
"Exciting?" Faneca replied to a question with disbelief in his voice, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported. "No, it's not exciting. Do you want to go work with some little young kid who's just out of college?
http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/images/smilies/sofunny.gif
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=1885470

Since a major goal is to keep the franchise QB happy (see, e.g., Haley gone/Fichtner in) keeping Landry around to avoid passive aggressive comments from Ben if Jones is moved should not be underestimated as a factor in Jones staying.

DesertSteel
08-19-2018, 06:45 PM
DesertSteel,
You judge them by their ability to step into a game cold and not screw the pooch. Their knowledge of the offense (players and playbook), maturity, poise, confidence, and ability to inspire and lead the offense in an emergency. And yeah... somewhere in there not being an awful QB.
The problem is the stats themselves don't say who is a good backup and who's not, especially if you start cherry picking which stats count and which don't.
My entire point is that with the stats on record, we know that we are not "screwed" if Ben goes down because Jones has proven that he can hold the fort. What's more important is that he has the confidence of the offense, coaching staff, and head office to step in in a crisis and employ the entire playbook and exercise judgement.
So yeah... I don't see Jones' job in jeopardy this year. Perhaps next year. In the meantime, I see Rudolph and Dobbs in competition with each other for the "development QB" role.

Best,
-Slashy
Then the argument is not that stats don't matter but that it's a different set of stats, or at the least weighted differently. To that I agree. For a backup, I'd expect a game manager, not a gunslinger. 18/28 for 195-220 yards with 1-2 TDs and 0-1 INTs. That's a good stat line for a backup.

But the only stat that matters is W/L..........

Dwinsgames
08-19-2018, 06:54 PM
When your franchise QB is 36 years old and it took you an eternity to find him it is and always will be my contention you do not cut young guys with potential to become your next starter to keep a guy you know that isnt ...


ok I am done with this topic we are all set in our beliefs and nobody is going to change any of our minds LOL

BUT...

some of these guys had multiple stints as starters trying to find " the guy"
I remember this exhausting search for a couple decades so I am just not willing to throw away a potential starter for a guy who I know is not 1

Cliff Stoudt
Mark Malone
David Woodley
Scott Campbell
Bubby Brister
Steve Bono
David Woodley
Todd Blackledge
Neil O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Jim Miller
Kordell Stewart
Kent Graham
Tommy Maddox

GoSlash27
08-19-2018, 07:34 PM
When your franchise QB is 36 years old and it took you an eternity to find him it is and always will be my contention you do not cut young guys with potential to become your next starter to keep a guy you know that isnt ...


ok I am done with this topic we are all set in our beliefs and nobody is going to change any of our minds LOL

DWins,
Fair 'nuff, but it's not "my" mind that would need changed on the matter. I'm just trying to explain what I think the Steelers will do, and why. We'll all find out about the final roster together in a couple weeks.

Best,
-Slashy

GoSlash27
08-19-2018, 07:53 PM
Then the argument is not that stats don't matter but that it's a different set of stats, or at the least weighted differently.

Desert Steel,
My argument is that the stats can only show how good a QB is at being a QB in general. They show absolutely nothing AFA the attributes that are required in a good backup. I just look at the stats to see whether we can get by with the guy under center or not. The record tells me that we can.



Since a major goal is to keep the franchise QB happy (see, e.g., Haley gone/Fichtner in) keeping Landry around to avoid passive aggressive comments from Ben if Jones is moved should not be underestimated as a factor in Jones staying.
Even more than this, a good backup needs to not just accept the role of backup, but actually embrace it. He's got to be all- in and immerse himself in every facet of the job... which includes carrying the clipboard. He has to accept that he's never going to be the starter, but is totally okay with that because he realizes the importance of his contribution... even if maybe nobody else outside the locker room does.

Rookies have a hard time settling into the job due to their ego, but grizzled old vets come to realize the importance of the job, even if there's no glamor associated with it.

Best,
-Slashy

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-19-2018, 09:31 PM
Was Dobbs first TD to Washington a well thrown pass, or did #13 make a great catch to save the QB on an underthrown pass? Was the 2nd TD to Washington any different?? Did the INT that Dobbs threw kind of hang in the air, similar to the one in the first preseason game??

I dont understand why all the optimism for Dobbs. It still looks like the best part of his game is running.

pczach
08-20-2018, 05:52 AM
Was Dobbs first TD to Washington a well thrown pass, or did #13 make a great catch to save the QB on an underthrown pass? Was the 2nd TD to Washington any different?? Did the INT that Dobbs threw kind of hang in the air, similar to the one in the first preseason game??

I dont understand why all the optimism for Dobbs. It still looks like the best part of his game is running.


How do you think Dobbs's play compares to Landry Jones's play at the beginning of his second year?

Everyone is comparing Dobbs to the Landry Jones we see right now, and Jones may be a little better.....but do you remember what a shit show Jones was for much of his first three years? I contend that Dobbs is showing much more than Jones did at this stage of his pro career. He also adds the athleticism to the position. The RPO game is in play with Dobbs as well which offers some other possibilities as it changes the way defenses play as they react to things and gives quarterbacks more opportunities for open throws. And since the quarterback needs to be defended in the run game...the numbers game is different on the back end. There hasn't been much of that put into the offense yet, but if there was an RPO package, Dobbs would be the man for the job and give teams something else to prepare for.

GoSlash27
08-20-2018, 06:16 AM
Everyone is comparing Dobbs to the Landry Jones we see right now
I'm certainly not. ;)

Best,
-Slashy

DesertSteel
08-20-2018, 08:49 AM
Was Dobbs first TD to Washington a well thrown pass, or did #13 make a great catch to save the QB on an underthrown pass? Was the 2nd TD to Washington any different?? Did the INT that Dobbs threw kind of hang in the air, similar to the one in the first preseason game??

I dont understand why all the optimism for Dobbs. It still looks like the best part of his game is running.
I couldn’t agree more. I think the coaching staff will see it the same way come cut time.

AtlantaDan
08-20-2018, 09:06 AM
How do you think Dobbs's play compares to Landry Jones's play at the beginning of his second year?

Everyone is comparing Dobbs to the Landry Jones we see right now, and Jones may be a little better.....but do you remember what a shit show Jones was for much of his first three years? I contend that Dobbs is showing much more than Jones did at this stage of his pro career. He also adds the athleticism to the position. The RPO game is in play with Dobbs as well which offers some other possibilities as it changes the way defenses play as they react to things and gives quarterbacks more opportunities for open throws. And since the quarterback needs to be defended in the run game...the numbers game is different on the back end. There hasn't been much of that put into the offense yet, but if there was an RPO package, Dobbs would be the man for the job and give teams something else to prepare for.

Of course in a win now season it is how their level of play compares right now since Ben is the starter unless he gets injured.

As far as Dobbs running ability, we are not talking about Lamar Jackson here. As long as Ben can play it is highly doubtful Tomlin and Fichtner are going to be installing a package of RPO plays for Dobbs to unleash during the game (assuming they do not run him 10 times this weekend along with 10 more in the final preseason game in the hope he gets banged up and can be put on IR until Jones is gone after this season).

It is frustrating that the Steelers probably will be letting a 4th round QB pick in 2017 who is not terrible go since I doubt he will be able to be stashed on the practice squad (could be worse - could be Denver having wasted a first round pick on Paxton Lynch). But once Rudolph was drafted Dobbs days as a Steelers were regarded by most as drawing down quickly.

GBMelBlount
08-20-2018, 10:44 AM
Could Dobbs be converted to receiver?

tube517
08-20-2018, 11:23 AM
Could Dobbs be converted to receiver?

Nope. S/ILB hybrid.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-20-2018, 11:45 AM
How do you think Dobbs's play compares to Landry Jones's play at the beginning of his second year?

Everyone is comparing Dobbs to the Landry Jones we see right now, and Jones may be a little better.....but do you remember what a shit show Jones was for much of his first three years? I contend that Dobbs is showing much more than Jones did at this stage of his pro career. He also adds the athleticism to the position. The RPO game is in play with Dobbs as well which offers some other possibilities as it changes the way defenses play as they react to things and gives quarterbacks more opportunities for open throws. And since the quarterback needs to be defended in the run game...the numbers game is different on the back end. There hasn't been much of that put into the offense yet, but if there was an RPO package, Dobbs would be the man for the job and give teams something else to prepare for.

My last statement was not comparing Dobbs to Jones. I just thought that I saw underthrown passes that lead to one INT and 2 others that would have been INT's, if not for spectacular efforts by James Washington to wrestle the football away from the CB's. I'm just waiting for a poster here to put aside the stat line and explain to my why those two passes by Dobbs were good?

Also, can you please explain what you mean by the statement that "The RPO game is in play with Dobbs as well..."? Why is it not in play with any other QB on the roster?? or any other QB in the NFL for that matter?

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-20-2018, 11:56 AM
I couldn’t agree more. I think the coaching staff will see it the same way come cut time.

As I said before, Dobbs looks more comfortable this season and that is to be expected with a year of being in NFL system. I think he can throw the long ball kind of like how Bengals Jeff Blake used to, but for some reason I see inconsistent velocity and accuracy on the intermediate throws, which doesn't impress and has lead to INT's and defended passes in the preseason. Its also lead to 2 amazing catches by Washington.

The best part of Dobbs game to me still looks like that he has speed to scramble and get yards when he cant find anybody open, but I don't think that is the way most scouts evaluate QB strengths. Sure he can continue to develop as a passer, but IMO Rudolph is a better passer and just needs that year to adapt to the speed of the NFL. I think the Steelers will keep 1 backup and 1 developing youngster on the 53 rather than 2 developing QB's and 0 qualified backups.....but we will see in a couple weeks I guess.

GBMelBlount
08-20-2018, 12:08 PM
As I said before, Dobbs looks more comfortable this season and that is to be expected with a year of being in NFL system. I think he can throw the long ball kind of like how Bengals Jeff Blake used to, but for some reason I see inconsistent velocity and accuracy on the intermediate throws, which doesn't impress and has lead to INT's and defended passes in the preseason. Its also lead to 2 amazing catches by Washington.

The best part of Dobbs game to me still looks like that he has speed to scramble and get yards when he cant find anybody open, but I don't think that is the way most scouts evaluate QB strengths. Sure he can continue to develop as a passer, but IMO Rudolph is a better passer and just needs that year to adapt to the speed of the NFL.

I think the Steelers will keep 1 backup and 1 developing youngster on the 53 rather than 2 developing QB's and 0 qualified backups.....but we will see in a couple weeks I guess.

I agree with your thoughts.

pczach
08-20-2018, 01:34 PM
My last statement was not comparing Dobbs to Jones. I just thought that I saw underthrown passes that lead to one INT and 2 others that would have been INT's, if not for spectacular efforts by James Washington to wrestle the football away from the CB's. I'm just waiting for a poster here to put aside the stat line and explain to my why those two passes by Dobbs were good?

Also, can you please explain what you mean by the statement that "The RPO game is in play with Dobbs as well..."? Why is it not in play with any other QB on the roster?? or any other QB in the NFL for that matter?



I can also ask you to explain how the touchdown pass in the first preseason game by Landry Jones was a good throw?

As for the RPO stuff. Sure, anyone can run it, but Dobbs is best equipped to run it and commanding the attention of defenders to honor the run with the ball in his hand, which is what helps create passing lanes and open receivers.

SteelMember
08-20-2018, 01:44 PM
I think rolling him out of the pocket is more about him getting a cleaner view downfield and getting him a little more time and space to make that decision to throw. Not necessarily a true rpo.
Either way, I think he's on the outside looking in for a roster spot. I really can't see 4 QB's on the roster. Too much of a luxury with the voids we need fill. He's probably PS material at this point for us.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-20-2018, 05:19 PM
I can also ask you to explain how the touchdown pass in the first preseason game by Landry Jones was a good throw?

As for the RPO stuff. Sure, anyone can run it, but Dobbs is best equipped to run it and commanding the attention of defenders to honor the run with the ball in his hand, which is what helps create passing lanes and open receivers.

OK, but again I am not making this about Jones, although it appears as if you would like me to. The long TD by JuJu from Jones in that game was a defensive offside and it appears that Landry Jones knew it was a free play and quickly decided to take a shot at the deep route in the play. He obviously didn't hit JuJu in stride and underthrew it, but he knew there was no risk of an INT obviously.

Below is an explanation of an RPO from an NFL offensive lineman Mitchell Schwartz. It gives the QB the option to either handoff the football to a runner or to pass to a receiver. Not really designed to keep the football in QB hands and have him get hit. There is even a video in the below link. The Steelers can run RPO with Ben at QB as he is just handing it off or passing it.


A Run-Pass Option (RPO) is a called run play with a pass option. It can be a DE, a LB, or just a specific alignment the QB is looking for. The OL blocks for the run the entire way, and the QB makes a decision pre or post snap (depending on which variation is called) to run/throw.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/02/04/the-eagles-run-a-lot-of-rpos-heres-what-that-means-in-football-terminology

st33lersguy
08-20-2018, 07:33 PM
Dobbs in year 2 is looking comfortable. It took to year 4 before Landry Jones graduated to not a total trainwreck all of the time

AtlantaDan
08-20-2018, 07:57 PM
In his online chat today P-G reporter Ray Fittipaldo shares my view on how it ends up for Dobbs

Your best guess on the Steelers releasing Dobbs versus Dobbs having a phantom injury that puts him on IR?
Ray Fittipaldo: Phantom injury to IR. I've said that since April so I'm not changing my mind now even though others have picked up on the possibility....

Dobbs has looked better at this point than Rudolph but having said that, I still think they keep Rudolph and Dobbs will be gone or practice squad. Your thoughts?
Ray Fittipaldo: Dobbs will be cut or placed on IR....

How high of a draft pick could the Steelers get for Dobbs?
Ray Fittipaldo: Why would an opposing team give up a draft pick for Dobbs when they could get him for nothing if he is released?

So be on the lookout for something like this for Dobbs in the last preseason game


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRIUOVJtrMk

FWIW I also share Fittipaldo's opinion in response to this question

Should we try to trade Dobbs for Khalil Mack?
Ray Fittipaldo: Yes!

:chuckle:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/08/20/ray-fittipaldo-steelers-chat-8-20-18/stories/201808200109

pczach
08-20-2018, 10:10 PM
OK, but again I am not making this about Jones, although it appears as if you would like me to. The long TD by JuJu from Jones in that game was a defensive offside and it appears that Landry Jones knew it was a free play and quickly decided to take a shot at the deep route in the play. He obviously didn't hit JuJu in stride and underthrew it, but he knew there was no risk of an INT obviously.

Below is an explanation of an RPO from an NFL offensive lineman Mitchell Schwartz. It gives the QB the option to either handoff the football to a runner or to pass to a receiver. Not really designed to keep the football in QB hands and have him get hit. There is even a video in the below link. The Steelers can run RPO with Ben at QB as he is just handing it off or passing it.


A Run-Pass Option (RPO) is a called run play with a pass option. It can be a DE, a LB, or just a specific alignment the QB is looking for. The OL blocks for the run the entire way, and the QB makes a decision pre or post snap (depending on which variation is called) to run/throw.


https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/02/04/the-eagles-run-a-lot-of-rpos-heres-what-that-means-in-football-terminology



I know how the RPO is used by most teams in the NFL. It's not the zone read like many colleges used where the quarterbacks keep the ball and run with it often. It's a variation of it that gets the ball out of the quarterback's hands so he doesn't get punished and risk injury. I get it. Dobbs played in a similar system in college. He's an athletic guy which also gives him the added ability to use his feet when nothing is there on the play or to exploit a defense. The play doesn't have to end because the quarterback is not athletic enough to make something happen himself. He can use his feet more to actually run the ball more like Marcus Mariota. He's not the athlete that Mariota is, but he's capable of more with the run game within the system. That's all I'm saying. There is more than one way to run it, and you use the gifts of the people playing quarterback in it to tailor the offense to them when they're in the game.

All I asked you is what you thought of Dobbs at this stage of his career compared to Jones. It was a legitimate question that I asked because I truly wanted to know your thoughts on it. It's relevant because it could show what Dobbs could develop into. Why so defensive when I was only asking a simple question?


What exactly are you trying to teach me with the link? I know what an RPO is. I also know that the Eagles ran a shit load of it last year. It's been used in the NFL for a few years now. The Steelers ran some of it the other night against the Packers....and Dobbs used his feet to run with the ball a couple times. They ran a variation of it.


I think Dobbs would run it better because he adds the running ability to the equation that Jones cannot. I don't think either one of these guys is going to be the future starter of this team. I like Dobbs because IMO he can do more and offers more of a change of pace to Ben than Jones does. I have no idea if I'm right. Only time will tell.

Here's a link on what the RPO is. It's was written about 6 months ago, but it actually explains something about the offense and how it works while also talking about how the Steelers may use it in Fichtner's offense. None of this article really talks about using Dobbs within the system, but I thought it was a good read.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2018/2/23/17040416/the-evolution-of-the-run-pass-option-and-its-impact-in-the-steelers-new-offense-randy-fichtner-nfl

And again...How is this not about all the quarterbacks including Jones when they are competing for roster spots?

Here's Landry Jones throwing 4 interceptions against the Eagles two years ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6JyWVgGKDc

All I'm saying is that I don't see Dobbs as being inferior to Jones, particularly at the same stage of development.

You apparently do....and that's ok if that's your opinion.

Jones threw a lot of INTs, and then he got better. I haven't seen any of the disaster performances yet from Dobbs that we've seen from Jones, but they may be coming. We'll see.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-20-2018, 10:32 PM
@pzach, I posted saying that the Washington TD's were underthrown footballs by Dobbs and I dont exactly see why all the hype. You then start asking me to compare Dobbs to Jones, when my question was not about Jones but about Dobbs. Its nothing defensive, but rather just keeping the topic on point. Below is my thoughts of Jones vs Dobbs year 2.

Landry Jones in year 2 showed good command of the playbook and understanding of where the ball was supposed to go, but I noticed that as he progressed thru his reads he didnt move his feet well in the direction of his throw and often didnt have a good base when passing. He seemed to sail some passes when he didnt have a good base and some of those were INT's. He looked like a pocket passer with a strong arm, but really needed improvement and consistency with footwork to become better passer IMO.

Josh Dobbs in year 2 has shown more calmness and poise in the pocket. He seems to complete the open throws or short crossers with accuracy, he had a nice 15 yrd dig route to Washington in game 1, but his intermediate passes, deep outs seem inconsistent and at times hang in the air for INT, or underthrows. He moves his base well with his throws, but I just dont think he has the arm strength Jones does. When his first couple reads are not there, he scrambles for yardage, not as much scramble to look for open receivers.

Summation: year 2 Landry Jones looks like a pocket passer with a strong arm that needs some better mechanics to be a better QB. Year 2 Josh Dobbs looks to have an adequate arm and good mechanics, but doesnt make the throws that require a strong arm with consistency and is better off running the football than trying to throw a 30 yard crossing pattern or flag route to the wide side of the field.

I'm glad that you understand what a RPO is, as by your comment it seemed as you were pointing to the fact that an athletic QB is needed to run RPO. As for Dobbs, I dont know why we even care if our potential backup QB is suited to RPO, as he wont see the field much. Honestly, I think Josh Dobbs has the potential to have a career like Anthony Wright did, but Wright had a stronger arm IMO.

As for disaster performances, its not always the stats that coaches evaluate. If Dobbs passes were intended for Marcus Tucker instead of James Washington, then its likely a 3INT game on the stat sheet. Coaches will evaluate the work, detail and effort that leads up to the play as much as the actual play or result. Fans may think Dobbs played great, but I bet Randy Fichtner knows that the QB left some throws short and got bailed out big time.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-20-2018, 10:50 PM
I'm very Impressed with Dobbs these first two games! I think he could handle being the 2 QB now. Depends on what you want as a back up to Ben. Jones that will be safe and maybe win a game or Dobbs that can outright win the game ?

Cyphon25
08-20-2018, 10:53 PM
What exactly are you trying to teach me with the link? I know what an RPO is. I also know that the Eagles ran a shit load of it last year. It's been used in the NFL for a few years now. The Steelers ran some of it the other night against the Packers....and Dobbs used his feet to run with the ball a couple times. They ran a variation of it.

I know I wasn't involved but just from an outside perspective reading the conversation I thought you were using the wrong term. Granted I don't know if I am accurate or not but the impression I have is that an RPO (and specifically the running part of it) involves a running back running and not a QB. So pointing out Dobbs mobility in relation to RPO's seems irrelevant if that is the correct idea behind an RPO (again, I am not 100% sure on it). It is either you hand to the RB or throw a quick pass. The QB isn't supposed to be running. Dobbs mobility would be more suited to the college style option.

Mojouw
08-20-2018, 11:25 PM
All of this scheme and mechanics discussion is great but somewhat immaterial to the larger point. Namely which backup QBs allow a team to run their offense-whatever that may be.

Jones processes the game fairly quickly but seems to choose checkdowns over pushing the ball downfield. When he does throw an aggressive pass he has a track record of turnovers.

Dobbs and Rudolph both still process slower than they should. Both tend to wait for the target to come open rather than anticipating. Rudolph to a bigger degree as he is a rookie and used to the wide open receivers that abound in his college offense. Both also have mechanical issues to correct. All that being said, Dobbs and Rudolph demonstrate a greater willingness to attack down the field.

Now, why is that? Landry may be told to play it safe. Dobbs and Rudolph may feel a greater need to show something big to make the team. I don’t know.

But since the team is kinda screwed if Ben goes out for more than a game or two, I would roll the dice on the kids who don’t seem to have a conscience when it comes to challenging defenses to make a big play. But that’s just me.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-20-2018, 11:29 PM
I know I wasn't involved but just from an outside perspective reading the conversation I thought you were using the wrong term. Granted I don't know if I am accurate or not but the impression I have is that an RPO (and specifically the running part of it) involves a running back running and not a QB. So pointing out Dobbs mobility in relation to RPO's seems irrelevant if that is the correct idea behind an RPO (again, I am not 100% sure on it). It is either you hand to the RB or throw a quick pass. The QB isn't supposed to be running. Dobbs mobility would be more suited to the college style option.

I agree, the point you make that is above in bold is what confused me as well.

If the QB has the option to keep or hand off and he determines that by reading the DE/OLB, then its a read option. RPO is where a QB like Nick Foles either hands off to the RB from pistol formation (run option), or keeps it to throw a quick slant, bubble screen or whatever quick pass option is called. IMO, read options are great to get your QB injured....just look at Bob Griffin's first 2 seasons with the Redskins to see that.

86WARD
08-21-2018, 06:50 AM
I’m sorry but I refuse to include that Jones’s stats in a no pressure game against a winless team. Take that start away and he is 2-2 as a starter. Okay. His yards per attempt were like 9 and then 6.5. Okay. His ratings were 77 and 86.

He’s okay, almost.

He also had better defenses those years. But he’s still probably the safe bet.

If he’s 2-2 after you take that start away, he’s right where you want your back up QB to be over a 4 game stretch. The rule of thumb is you want your back up to be able to go .500 or better while in there.

HollywoodSteel
08-21-2018, 02:09 PM
If he’s 2-2 after you take that start away, he’s right where you want your back up QB to be over a 4 game stretch. The rule of thumb is you want your back up to be able to go .500 or better while in there.

I’m not arguing with you. Jones is the safer bet for 2018, and that’s all that matters to me. I’m not interested in grooming a potentially better BACK UP. That’s why Dobbs is pretty much worthless, unless they can trade him. But everyone knows they are going to cut him. Unless...

They get a REALLY good trade offer for Landry Jones. Which they won’t.

Unless Dobbs gets INSTANTLY more dependable than Jones (before they make their cuts) Dobbs is gone. It isn’t even a story, even though people keep writing about it.

GoSlash27
08-21-2018, 05:37 PM
According to today's depth chart, Rudolph may be the guy on the bubble, not Dobbs. Jones is listed as #2, as I'd expect.

Best,
-Slashy

hawaiiansteeler
08-21-2018, 06:06 PM
According to today's depth chart, Rudolph may be the guy on the bubble, not Dobbs. Jones is listed as #2, as I'd expect.

Best,
-Slashy

ZERO chance the Steelers cut Rudolph...

Dwinsgames
08-21-2018, 06:17 PM
ZERO chance the Steelers cut Rudolph...

not unless he kills someone or is busted for 5 pounds of dope in his trunk

BlackAndGold
08-21-2018, 06:17 PM
According to today's depth chart, Rudolph may be the guy on the bubble, not Dobbs. Jones is listed as #2, as I'd expect.

Best,
-Slashy

Don't take depth charts seriously this time of the season. They do it because the league tells them to put it out.

AtlantaDan
08-21-2018, 07:34 PM
According to today's depth chart, Rudolph may be the guy on the bubble, not Dobbs. Jones is listed as #2, as I'd expect.

Best,
-Slashy

If Rudolph would be released, Ben’s “I knew this was a dumb pick” rant on his radio appearance/psychotherapy session the following Tuesday morning would be epic :sofunny:

AtlantaDan
08-23-2018, 12:55 PM
1032680235316195328

Would seem to indicate who is 4th in a 4 player competition

Dwinsgames
08-23-2018, 01:04 PM
1032680235316195328

Would seem to indicate who is 4th in a 4 player competition


sadly so it seems ...

this is a showcase move ....

try and drum up a trade market for the young signal caller and it may work .....

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-23-2018, 03:54 PM
Montreal needs a QB since Manziel isnt working out there. Maybe can trade for some Crown Royal?

Mojouw
08-24-2018, 02:14 PM
sadly so it seems ...

this is a showcase move ....

try and drum up a trade market for the young signal caller and it may work .....

I don't think they could hope for anything more than a conditional 7th rounder in return. Maybe in other years either Jones or Dobbs might fetch more, but in a year where Bridgewater is almost certainly available - those two pale in comparison.

Dwinsgames
08-24-2018, 04:29 PM
I don't think they could hope for anything more than a conditional 7th rounder in return. Maybe in other years either Jones or Dobbs might fetch more, but in a year where Bridgewater is almost certainly available - those two pale in comparison.

certainly will need to catch a break due to another teams misfortune , if someone is looking for a starter they should move quickly on Teddy to give him some time to learn a new system

but for a backup .... not many will be looking at Teddy as he will not be cost effective

DesertSteel
08-24-2018, 06:11 PM
I don't think they could hope for anything more than a conditional 7th rounder in return. Maybe in other years either Jones or Dobbs might fetch more, but in a year where Bridgewater is almost certainly available - those two pale in comparison.
I think the Jets may be holding out for another team to lose their starter to injury. At that point, Bridegwater becomes last year's Sam Bradford and a team gets hosed for a high draft pick.

Dwinsgames
08-24-2018, 09:44 PM
since RPO is the new hot topic , this makes a lot of sense to read I suppose

1033080491098828800

Dwinsgames
08-29-2018, 10:56 AM
https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/29/josh-dobbs-departure-from-the-steelers-isnt-imminent-heres-why/

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-29-2018, 12:26 PM
https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/29/josh-dobbs-departure-from-the-steelers-isnt-imminent-heres-why/


"Dobbs, on the other hand, has a stronger arm and can pick up yards with his legs."

I agree that Dobbs can pick up yards with his legs, but he doesn't appear to have a stronger arm than Jones. If anything, I believe that is Dobbs weakness is arm strength and he cant make all the throws with velocity. He left some deep outs or cross field passes short and hanging in the preseason that were knocked down.

Dwinsgames
08-29-2018, 12:28 PM
"Dobbs, on the other hand, has a stronger arm and can pick up yards with his legs."

I agree that Dobbs can pick up yards with his legs, but he doesn't appear to have a stronger arm than Jones. If anything, I believe that is Dobbs weakness is arm strength and he cant make all the throws with velocity. He left some deep outs or cross field passes short and hanging in the preseason that were knocked down.


Jones rarely has to worry about arm strength a 12 year old can throw it 15 yards or less

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-29-2018, 12:32 PM
Jones rarely has to worry about arm strength a 12 year old can throw it 15 yards or less

But can they throw it with enough velocity that its not knocked down or intercepted? Jones has a stronger arm than Dobbs, but the blogger of that article is likely anti-Landry Jones.

Dwinsgames
08-29-2018, 04:54 PM
But can they throw it with enough velocity that its not knocked down or intercepted? Jones has a stronger arm than Dobbs, but the blogger of that article is likely anti-Landry Jones.


if it is off target does it matter ?

cause many of Jones's are just that even at short range

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-29-2018, 05:14 PM
if it is off target does it matter ?

cause many of Jones's are just that even at short range

I'm confused. Are you complaining about Jones arm strength (which is better than Dobbs) or Jones accuracy, which was 82.1% completion rate last season and 63.9% for his career??

Dwinsgames
08-29-2018, 05:25 PM
I'm confused. Are you complaining about Jones arm strength (which is better than Dobbs) or Jones accuracy, which was 82.1% completion rate last season and 63.9% for his career??

I contend I could complete 81% of my passes too is 90% of them are 10 yards or less

GoSlash27
08-29-2018, 07:56 PM
I contend I could complete 81% of my passes too is 90% of them are 10 yards or less

DWins,
I bet you couldn't. Not in an actual game with linebackers trying to smear you into a grease spot while the corners are coating your receivers like an EPA superfund site.
Best,
-Slashy

Dwinsgames
08-29-2018, 08:26 PM
DWins,
I bet you couldn't. Not in an actual game with linebackers trying to smear you into a grease spot while the corners are coating your receivers like an EPA superfund site.
Best,
-Slashy


meh I am as big as those linebacker though haha ...

lets be honest here without a training camp and knowing the playbook it would be impossible ... BUT most of Jones completions are 3-10 yard throws .... I can zing the ball pretty good and accurately and honestly do not see how it would be any worse as stupid as that may sound ... its not like we are talking about Ben or Aaron Rodgers here where we have to chuck it 50 yards or so in the air we are literally taking about 12-30 feet

GoSlash27
08-29-2018, 08:59 PM
DWins,
Honestly, I don't think you grasp the complexity of the job of an actual NFL quarterback. It has very little to do with the ability to "zing a ball pretty good and accurately", even at short range. Kind of akin to claiming you could be a competent NASCAR crew chief because you can turn a screwdriver; there's a *whole lot* more to the job and what you can do can be done by literally any of us. But there are only 32 starters in the NFL and most of 'em suck. There's a reason for that.

Best,
-Slashy

Dwinsgames
08-29-2018, 09:45 PM
DWins,
Honestly, I don't think you grasp the complexity of the job of an actual NFL quarterback. It has very little to do with the ability to "zing a ball pretty good and accurately", even at short range. Kind of akin to claiming you could be a competent NASCAR crew chief because you can turn a screwdriver; there's a *whole lot* more to the job and what you can do can be done by literally any of us. But there are only 32 starters in the NFL and most of 'em suck. There's a reason for that.

Best,
-Slashy

trust me I get it ....

I am not saying I would be good at it .... but neither is jones

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-30-2018, 09:51 AM
. Kind of akin to claiming you could be a competent NASCAR crew chief because you can turn a screwdriver;

Kind of like how steelworkers can purport themselves to be a credible authority on the Steelers because they have a computer and a blog?

SteelMember
08-30-2018, 10:02 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/5d9WminNw7fuo/giphy.gif

:chuckle:

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 10:03 AM
1034891781563981825

Born2Steel
08-30-2018, 10:22 AM
You need to have a veteran backup at QB. Not saying he needs to have 10 years exp or anything. Ben and Brady are more the exception than the rule. That does not happen very often. Maybe MR is capable of the same success, maybe not. We know from what we have seen that Dobbs is not ready to be the starter here. We also know LJ is not the future starter. But he is currently the better option over Dobbs. If Ben goes out for any extended period of games, it will be LJ running the offense. I'm fairly certain of that.
I don't know that trading one of these QBs is a worthwhile gamble.


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Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 10:34 AM
You need to have a veteran backup at QB. Not saying he needs to have 10 years exp or anything. Ben and Brady are more the exception than the rule. That does not happen very often. Maybe MR is capable of the same success, maybe not. We know from what we have seen that Dobbs is not ready to be the starter here. We also know LJ is not the future starter. But he is currently the better option over Dobbs. If Ben goes out for any extended period of games, it will be LJ running the offense. I'm fairly certain of that.
I don't know that trading one of these QBs is a worthwhile gamble.


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problem is we cant and wont keep 4 for any length of time anyways ... someone has to go and if not via trade that means free release and quite frankly none of them clear waivers IMO ...

so you either get something , or you get nothing

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-30-2018, 11:04 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/5d9WminNw7fuo/giphy.gif

:chuckle:

Yeah, but I think Uncle Rico lacks the Zing and Accuracy that some of the posters on the board do.

Maybe we should bring Rico in for a look?? Or at least, get a steel worker from Indiana to write him up on his blog.

steelreserve
08-30-2018, 11:22 AM
You need to have a veteran backup at QB. Not saying he needs to have 10 years exp or anything. Ben and Brady are more the exception than the rule. That does not happen very often. Maybe MR is capable of the same success, maybe not. We know from what we have seen that Dobbs is not ready to be the starter here. We also know LJ is not the future starter. But he is currently the better option over Dobbs. If Ben goes out for any extended period of games, it will be LJ running the offense. I'm fairly certain of that.
I don't know that trading one of these QBs is a worthwhile gamble.


I just don't even care any more. Trading Jones or Dobbs is like the third or fourth "gamble" down the list.

First roll of the dice is that Ben doesn't get hurt, your whole season basically depends on not having bad luck there.

Second roll of the dice is Rudolph being good enough.

Third roll of the dice is whether you keep Jones vs. Dobbs. And you have to get rid of one of them no matter what, and they're close enough that who cares which one.

Here's the situation as I see it: Jones sucks. He does a D-plus job running the offense and is never going to be any better than that. Dobbs sucks just as bad if not worse right now, may be better one day, but that's a longshot and we have a better prospect in front of him. So I don't see his future here as anything other than a bunch of what-if after what-if. we will probably keep Jones over Dobbs because of the "experience" factor, but he had better not even get near a helmet on game day.

You have to have Rudolph be the primary backup. None of this bullshit where you sit the guy on the bench for 2 or 3 years without even suiting up on game day, wringing your hands going "omg is he ready or is he not ready?" If he's any good, he'll figure it out, and the game experience will help. If not, those were games we were probably going to lose anyway, because Landry fuckin' Jones was going to play quarterback otherwise. So we have nothing to lose by shoving Rudolph into that role, nothing to really gain from keeping either Jones or Dobbs, but we have to keep one of them even though they're both basically irrelevant. Just get a draft pick or something for one of them and be done with it.

Born2Steel
08-30-2018, 12:48 PM
I just don't even care any more. Trading Jones or Dobbs is like the third or fourth "gamble" down the list.

First roll of the dice is that Ben doesn't get hurt, your whole season basically depends on not having bad luck there.

Second roll of the dice is Rudolph being good enough.

Third roll of the dice is whether you keep Jones vs. Dobbs. And you have to get rid of one of them no matter what, and they're close enough that who cares which one.

Here's the situation as I see it: Jones sucks. He does a D-plus job running the offense and is never going to be any better than that. Dobbs sucks just as bad if not worse right now, may be better one day, but that's a longshot and we have a better prospect in front of him. So I don't see his future here as anything other than a bunch of what-if after what-if. we will probably keep Jones over Dobbs because of the "experience" factor, but he had better not even get near a helmet on game day.

You have to have Rudolph be the primary backup. None of this bullshit where you sit the guy on the bench for 2 or 3 years without even suiting up on game day, wringing your hands going "omg is he ready or is he not ready?" If he's any good, he'll figure it out, and the game experience will help. If not, those were games we were probably going to lose anyway, because Landry fuckin' Jones was going to play quarterback otherwise. So we have nothing to lose by shoving Rudolph into that role, nothing to really gain from keeping either Jones or Dobbs, but we have to keep one of them even though they're both basically irrelevant. Just get a draft pick or something for one of them and be done with it.

That is one opinion, yes.


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steelreserve
08-30-2018, 01:14 PM
That is one opinion, yes.


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what do you know, you're just a baby.

Born2Steel
08-30-2018, 01:52 PM
what do you know, you're just a baby.

In more ways than you know. What's your point?


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steelreserve
08-30-2018, 04:30 PM
In more ways than you know. What's your point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was just going by your profile picture. Frankly, it's amazing that a baby can operate a mobile phone.

Born2Steel
08-30-2018, 04:57 PM
I was just going by your profile picture. Frankly, it's amazing that a baby can operate a mobile phone.

My grandson is that awesome.


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Craic
08-30-2018, 06:44 PM
If Dobbs keeps playing like he is on this first drive, we just may be surprised. He's looking like a practiced veteran right now. Of course, it's the fourth game so the starters are fully starters, but....

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 06:51 PM
1035313372391268352

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 06:58 PM
5-7-112 yards ..... wow

- - - Updated - - -

6-8-141 yards -20 rushing yards 1 rushing TD 1 passing TD

if this continues ... Goodbye Landry Jones !

Mojouw
08-30-2018, 07:03 PM
5-7-112 yards ..... wow

- - - Updated - - -

6-8-141 yards -20 rushing yards 1 rushing TD 1 passing TD

if this continues ... Goodbye Landry Jones !

I’ve seen enough. I will help Landry pack. Jones may be better versed in the offense. He may be more tested. But Dobbs looks to challenge defenses and make plays. Jones looks to not screw up. That’s about all I need to know.

Trade Landry for anything you can get and just roll the dice hard on Dobbs and Rudolph giving you enough.

Shoes
08-30-2018, 07:12 PM
I’ve seen enough. I will help Landry pack. Jones may be better versed in the offense. He may be more tested. But Dobbs looks to challenge defenses and make plays. Jones looks to not screw up. That’s about all I need to know.

Trade Landry for anything you can get and just roll the dice hard on Dobbs and Rudolph giving you enough.


Agreed, I'm really impress with both Dobbs & Rudolph, they seem to have no fear in the pocket.

BlackAndGold
08-30-2018, 07:15 PM
Trade value going up.

86WARD
08-30-2018, 07:18 PM
If Dobbs keeps playing like he is on this first drive, we just may be surprised. He's looking like a practiced veteran right now. Of course, it's the fourth game so the starters are fully starters, but....

Yeah...no way they can just give him away...

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 07:38 PM
Griffey not helping his case 2 missed chances and now Jones drops a TD .... receivers not helping their QB now

Mojouw
08-30-2018, 07:41 PM
More than enough for me to play GM and roll with the young ens. Also, I can’t tel lif it is the center or the guard, but someone isn’t blocking a soul in the middle of that o line group.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-30-2018, 07:43 PM
More than enough for me to play GM and roll with the young ens. Also, I can’t tel lif it is the center or the guard, but someone isn’t blocking a soul in the middle of that o line group. Yep Dobbs has been accurate all game with pressure most throws.

Shoes
08-30-2018, 07:59 PM
Tomlin had that Mason look on his face after that TD. :lol:

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 07:59 PM
Dobbs was slated to play " most of the game " and they pull him early after a great performance ....

what does this say ??? I do not know what to make of it to be honest

86WARD
08-30-2018, 08:01 PM
More than enough for me to play GM and roll with the young ens. Also, I can’t tel lif it is the center or the guard, but someone isn’t blocking a soul in the middle of that o line group.

I can understand how the Steelers would want to keep Jones and I traditionally tend to lean that way...but after this preseason and after tonight, I think it would be a mistake to go with Jones as one of the three.

Mojouw
08-30-2018, 08:02 PM
Dobbs was slated to play " most of the game " and they pull him early after a great performance ....

what does this say ??? I do not know what to make of it to be honest
Hopefully that Landry needs to get a real estate agent?

Shoes
08-30-2018, 08:02 PM
Got to go young at QB.

Fire Goodell
08-30-2018, 08:04 PM
Well i think this forces the hand of the FO. I think with how well Dobbs has improved and performed this preseason, you can't just cut the kid. Nor can you stash him on the practice squad.

Honestly after seeing Landry throw for 0 TD's almost every single preseason game he's been in, it's really fun watching Dobbs and Rudolph. I'd honestly favor cutting ties with LJ and sticking with the young guns.

Born2Steel
08-30-2018, 08:11 PM
Depends on how much say Fichtner gets on personnel. I think he and Ben are LJ fans. QBs are commodities too. It is fortunate when your backups play well in the preseason though. Gives them trade value.


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Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 08:15 PM
Dobbs preseason numbers 29-43-434-4tds-2ints 111.96 QB rating add the rushing 10-64-1td

tonight rating of 135.5 ( almost off the charts , would be off the charts had Tevin Jones not dropped that TD pass )

http://www.primecomputing.com/

st33lersguy
08-30-2018, 08:20 PM
I don't see how you just cut Dobbs with this preseason and game performance. At the very least, get a 7th in a trade for him

Fire Goodell
08-30-2018, 08:22 PM
Dobbs preseason numbers 29-43-434-4tds-2ints 111.96 QB rating add the rushing 10-64-1td

tonight rating of 135.5 ( almost off the charts , would be off the charts had Tevin Jones not dropped that TD pass )

http://www.primecomputing.com/

I know people might say "It's preseason", but Landry Jones has NEVER put on a "wow" performance in the preseason. He's honestly been the king of mediocre, and for 5 years. Now I'm going to be kind of mad when they cut Dobbs, since it seemed like they had their minds already made up after game 3. Though I hope I'm wrong.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-30-2018, 08:39 PM
I know people might say "It's preseason", but Landry Jones has NEVER put on a "wow" performance in the preseason. He's honestly been the king of mediocre, and for 5 years. Now I'm going to be kind of mad when they cut Dobbs, since it seemed like they had their minds already made up after game 3. Though I hope I'm wrong. Jones is proven to hold a clipboard better then most in the NFL.

AtlantaDan
08-30-2018, 08:44 PM
Dobbs was slated to play " most of the game " and they pull him early after a great performance ....

what does this say ??? I do not know what to make of it to be honest

Enough highlight material for trade value before he screws up

Ray Fittipaldo of P-G has said getting Dobbs on IR is best option but that can't happen once he sits

GoSlash27
08-30-2018, 08:45 PM
Dobbs had an awesome night tonight. I hope this highlight reel gets him an opportunity somewhere.

Best,
-Slashy

st33lersguy
08-30-2018, 08:50 PM
I know people might say "It's preseason", but Landry Jones has NEVER put on a "wow" performance in the preseason. He's honestly been the king of mediocre, and for 5 years. Now I'm going to be kind of mad when they cut Dobbs, since it seemed like they had their minds already made up after game 3. Though I hope I'm wrong.

Jones had been nothing short of a complete abomination for the majority of his career in preseason. Interesting stat, with Jones playing most of preseason, the Steelers won a grand total of 3 games from 2013-2016. Meanwhile last year alone, the Steelers won all 3 preseason games Dobbs finished. It's funny that the Steelers have stuck with Jones for over 5 years now as he has graduated from worst QB on an NFL roster to merely good enough to beat the Browns at home. Dobbs meanwhile is having a great 2nd preseason and they still might not keep him because they have kept Landry around for so long

GoSlash27
08-30-2018, 08:52 PM
. Now I'm going to be kind of mad when they cut Dobbs, since it seemed like they had their minds already made up after game 3. Though I hope I'm wrong.
Yeah, you're probably gonna be mad. "Mediocre" is good enough for a backup that knows the system and can lead the team in a crisis. In the weird calculus of pro ball, that counts more than raw talent.

Best,
-Slashy

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 08:55 PM
1035344114819256320

Fire Goodell
08-30-2018, 08:56 PM
Yeah, you're probably gonna be mad. "Mediocre" is good enough for a backup that knows the system and can lead the team in a crisis. In the weird calculus of pro ball, that counts more than raw talent.

Best,
-Slashy

Knowing the offense only takes you so far if you're not that good at executing the game plan. When Big Ben took over when Maddox got injured, he surely didn't know the offense better. However, the team went 15-1 that year mainly because Ben had superior ability to Maddox.

Not saying Dobbs is the 2nd coming of Big Ben, but I think he's already better than Landry, and will continue to get better. Landry has already hit his ceiling and it ain't anything to be excited about.

In any case I hope the performance gets some trade value, I know Dobbs is likely gone because we aren't carrying 3 QB's.

GoSlash27
08-30-2018, 09:10 PM
Knowing the offense only takes you so far if you're not that good at executing the game plan.
He is, though. He can execute the game plan, audible out of it, and everything in between. Perversely *because* he's the dude who carries the clipboard. The coaching staff, front office, and offense trust him to make the right decision on every snap, even though he's not the best QB by raw stats. That counts for a lot, perhaps more than what makes sense to us fans.

Best,
-Slashy

st33lersguy
08-30-2018, 09:14 PM
Knowing the offense only takes you so far if you're not that good at executing the game plan. When Big Ben took over when Maddox got injured, he surely didn't know the offense better. However, the team went 15-1 that year mainly because Ben had superior ability to Maddox.

Not saying Dobbs is the 2nd coming of Big Ben, but I think he's already better than Landry, and will continue to get better. Landry has already hit his ceiling and it ain't anything to be excited about.

In any case I hope the performance gets some trade value, I know Dobbs is likely gone because we aren't carrying 3 QB's.

Dobbs his 2nd year is miles ahead of where Landry was his 2nd year and arguably Dobbs in his 2nd year is at worst equal to Landry his 6th year. Of course I know full well they are likely to stick with Landry and Landry supporters will defend the move because "he's been in the system and he beat the 1-31 Browns twice so he must be worth keeping". Dobbs already has a much better arm and is much more mobile

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-30-2018, 09:16 PM
He is, though. He can execute the game plan, audible out of it, and everything in between. Perversely *because* he's the dude who carries the clipboard. The coaching staff, front office, and offense trust him to make the right decision on every snap, even though he's not the best QB by raw stats. That counts for a lot, perhaps more than what makes sense to us fans.

Best,
-Slashy I imagine a Rocket Scientist is capable of doing all that as well.

Mojouw
08-30-2018, 09:20 PM
He is, though. He can execute the game plan, audible out of it, and everything in between. Perversely *because* he's the dude who carries the clipboard. The coaching staff, front office, and offense trust him to make the right decision on every snap, even though he's not the best QB by raw stats. That counts for a lot, perhaps more than what makes sense to us fans.

Best,
-Slashy

I wish I could say you were wrong. But you’ve pegged the exact kind of conservative slow to change thinking that drives far too much of NFL decision


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pepsyman1
08-30-2018, 09:20 PM
I would dump Landry Jones like last night's leftovers. I'm sure we can get something in trade for him. I've seen enough from Dobbs this preseason to feel comfortable with him being the number 2. The kid is good, he's got high potential. Let him and Rudolph work on their games. By the time Ben hangs it up, I think we have a good shot of having a successor ready to take over. I think they are both gonna be pretty solid. That puts us in the position of having a new starter and potentially someone strong enough to trade to another team for another good draft pick. We can alway pick up an older veteran at that point as a backup. I see no value in keeping Jones at this point.

steelreserve
08-30-2018, 09:26 PM
I imagine a Rocket Scientist is capable of doing all that as well.

This thread is about Josh Dobbs, not Le'Veon Bell-Einstein.

He won't be carrying any clipboards anyway, just some Wii U controllers an a bag a weed.

HollywoodSteel
08-30-2018, 09:53 PM
I think there is an argument to be made that Dobbs is the better QB than Jones, but in my mind that the ONLY question is: who has the better chance of winning games if Ben is out at all THIS YEAR.

It doesn’t matter if Dobbs is better than Jones was in his second year. It doesn’t matter how much better Dobbs will be in the future.

All that matters is the better #2 for the Steelers right now this second.

If it’s Dobbs, then great. Keep Dobbs. But do not keep him for future upside. Today is ALL that matters in the Jones vs. Dobbs debate.

Mason is the future. We only have room for one future. But we need 2 presents.

Craic
08-30-2018, 09:59 PM
Dobbs was slated to play " most of the game " and they pull him early after a great performance ....

what does this say ??? I do not know what to make of it to be honest

It said to me they had made their decision on him, whatever that might be. Perhaps another team had called the Steelers and told them they'll deal, so the Steelers pulled him. Or, there was enough that they decided they were keeping him regardless of anything else, so might as well give the future a shot as well.

Personally, I think the latter is a better option. But, probably the most accurate guess is the Steelers were being nice and letting him put together some good game tape for other teams, and when he did so well, they pulled him because he didn't need to stay out there and perhaps make a mistake, and they also wanted to give their future some more experience before he picks up a clipboard for the rest of the year.

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 10:05 PM
I think there is an argument to be made that Dobbs is the better QB than Jones, but in my mind that the ONLY question is: who has the better chance of winning games if Ben is out at all THIS YEAR.

It doesn’t matter if Dobbs is better than Jones was in his second year. It doesn’t matter how much better Dobbs will be in the future.

All that matters is the better #2 for the Steelers right now this second.

If it’s Dobbs, then great. Keep Dobbs. But do not keep him for future upside. Today is ALL that matters in the Jones vs. Dobbs debate.

Mason is the future. We only have room for one future. But we need 2 presents.

Dobbs was drafted with an eye toward the future ... they second guessed themselves when Rudolph was there in the 3rd when they had a 1st round grade on him ..

I would not go out on the limb and say Rudolph is the future , I think that is the intent but Dobbs has other plans and is not going to hand it over to him he will need to earn it ...

as for Dobbs vs Jones ... Dobbs is better than where Jones was in his second year , but Dobbs is better than Jones is RIGHT NOW ... and who knows how much better he will get as he made a huge leap from year 1 to year 2

we here all this " veteran who knows the playbook " well I am not a buyer into that , Dobbs has a full year is supremely intelligent ( almost Genius level intelligence ) I am quite confident he knows the playbook ..

Dobbs looks to attack , Jones looks to not screw the pooch .... if we are without Ben I want a guy who tries to win over a guy who tries to not lose .... that man would be Josh Dobbs

86WARD
08-30-2018, 10:11 PM
I don't see how you just cut Dobbs with this preseason and game performance. At the very least, get a 7th in a trade for him

A 7th round pick would be an insult at this point.

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 10:35 PM
A 7th round pick would be an insult at this point.

I do not consider anything less than a 3rd if it was my decision to make as I prefer to keep him and take a 7th for Landry Jones

I am not convinced he isnt the future , I think having him and Rudolph is a good problem to have let them battle it out for the next couple years and perhaps have 2 capable guys

- - - Updated - - -

oh 1 more thing ....

do you realize Josh Dobbs finished the preseason with 10 yards per attempt ... not per completion ... per attempt ... thats outstanding

hawaiiansteeler
08-30-2018, 10:43 PM
I do not consider anything less than a 3rd if it was my decision to make as I prefer to keep him and take a 7th for Landry Jones

I am not convinced he isnt the future , I think having him and Rudolph is a good problem to have let them battle it out for the next couple years and perhaps have 2 capable guys

- - - Updated - - -

oh 1 more thing ....

do you realize Josh Dobbs finished the preseason with 10 yards per attempt ... not per completion ... per attempt ... thats outstanding

Dobbs had a passer rating of 137.5, Rudolph 135.2.

those are both outstanding...

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 10:48 PM
Dobbs had a passer rating of 137.5, Rudolph 135.2.

those are both outstanding...

agreed ....

Dobbs would have been 159 tonight had Tevin Jones not dropped the TD

Dwinsgames
08-30-2018, 11:00 PM
1035375484798988288

hawaiiansteeler
08-31-2018, 12:16 AM
Dobbs is Digest Player of the Week

Bob Labriola
STEELERS.COM
Thursday, Aug 30, 2018

If it indeed turns out to be the last game Joshua Dobbs plays in a Steelers uniform, everyone should have fond memories of his finale. Given an opportunity to start the game, Dobbs was the quarterback for four possessions in the first half, and he directed the Steelers to two touchdowns and a field goal during that time.

Statistically, Dobbs completed 8-of-12 for 151 yards, with one touchdown, one interception, and a rating of 137.5. He also ran the ball three times for 18 more yards and another touchdown. For the preseason, Dobbs completed 29-of-43 (67.4 percent) for 434 yards, with four touchdowns, two interceptions, and a rating of 111.9. He also had 64 yards rushing on 10 attempts.

For his performance in the Steelers’ 39-24 victory over the Carolina Panthers in the preseason finale tonight at Heinz Field, Dobbs is the Steelers Digest Player of the Week.

Also considered were:

to read rest of article:

https://www.steelers.com/news/dobbs-is-digest-player-of-the-week

DesertSteel
08-31-2018, 12:24 AM
Dobbs looked good............ Should be an interesting couple of days sorting it out. If there's a market for Jones, maybe he goes.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-31-2018, 01:37 AM
Dobbs got good very quick and looked good all preseason and this game is no surprise. I would feel safer with him as the backup to win a game then with Landry. Dobbs was on fire tonight with wr's that are going to get cut other then Hunter. Again would love to see what he could do with Bell and AB on the field!

steelreserve
08-31-2018, 02:08 AM
Well, all indications are that Dobbs is the guy to go because he's played well enough for other teams to be interested in him, and the drumbeat is going, and blah blah blah.

It's worth mentioning that nobody seems to be interested in Jones, which is probably because they all know he sucks.

There is a fundamental lesson in this from which we would benefit - if we can get something for Dobbs but not Jones, then perhaps what that means is NOT that we should "take whatever we can get" for Dobbs, but rather that Dobbs is the better player and we would therefore be better off keeping him on the team. Since the goal of pro football is, you know, to assemble a team of the best players you can.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves, we're not going to get much more than a very low draft pick for either of these guys. Is a random 6th- or 7th-round pick a good reason to hold on to a guy who sucks?

Plus I believe Dobbs is under contract for THREE more seasons (counting this one) at the league minimum. There's no urgency to move him. Hell, even at bare minimum, what if he impresses people even more a year from now and becomes worth a much higher pick?

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-31-2018, 02:32 AM
Well, all indications are that Dobbs is the guy to go because he's played well enough for other teams to be interested in him, and the drumbeat is going, and blah blah blah.

It's worth mentioning that nobody seems to be interested in Jones, which is probably because they all know he sucks.

There is a fundamental lesson in this from which we would benefit - if we can get something for Dobbs but not Jones, then perhaps what that means is NOT that we should "take whatever we can get" for Dobbs, but rather that Dobbs is the better player and we would therefore be better off keeping him on the team. Since the goal of pro football is, you know, to assemble a team of the best players you can.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves, we're not going to get much more than a very low draft pick for either of these guys. Is a random 6th- or 7th-round pick a good reason to hold on to a guy who sucks?

Plus I believe Dobbs is under contract for THREE more seasons (counting this one) at the league minimum. There's no urgency to move him. Hell, even at bare minimum, what if he impresses people even more a year from now and becomes worth a much higher pick? If it proves anything like life, doesn't matter who is better for the job and what matters who kisses more arse and the bosses like. Landry is also the safe pick and don't make rookie mistakes. Wasn't to long ago I remember him throwing 5 ints in one game and wasn't against a tough D like the Jags.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-31-2018, 02:46 AM
Landry was the wise and smart choice to keep in the past. He no longer is and a foolish decision if you keep him now in my opinion.

GBMelBlount
08-31-2018, 05:29 AM
I feel letting Dobbs go would be a huge mistake..

I think both he & Rudolph can be suitable backups NOW and both have the potential to be quality starters at the most important position in the NFL.

While I was a supporter of Landry Jones at the start of preseason, I now say trade Jones or keep 4 IF the FO thinks they need Landry as the safe bet backup this year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2018, 08:27 AM
Dobbs had a passer rating of 137.5, Rudolph 135.2.

those are both outstanding...

So both QB's had statistical success !!! I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact they were playing against 2nd and 3rd string defenders the majority of the night?

pczach
08-31-2018, 08:36 AM
So both QB's had statistical success !!! I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact they were playing against 2nd and 3rd string defenders the majority of the night?


No doubt it helped, but they also played with many second and third string players.

I'm just happy the young guys played well. That isn't always the case no matter who they are playing with or against.

We've seen backup Steelers quarterbacks play like shit under perfect circumstances. I'll take their play all day long and smile about it.

Dwinsgames
08-31-2018, 08:38 AM
So both QB's had statistical success !!! I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact they were playing against 2nd and 3rd string defenders the majority of the night?



oh I am sure it had " something to do with it " that said that is what Jones played against for the majority of the snaps he has ever played ( more preseason snaps than regular season ) and Jones NEVER looked that good ... not just 1 night for Dobbs his preseason rating is 111 ... and averaged 10 yards per attempt ( not completion ) attempt !

all that said Dobbs was also playing with guys who will not be on NFL rosters and relying on those men to keep him clean ( they did not it was a firestorm in the pocket almost ever snap ) and men to make plays down field that will not be on NFL rosters Tevin Jones dropped a sure TD , Griffey dropped another that if it had been AB would have been a TD .... so as much as it worked for him playing vs lesser players it worked against him playing with lesser players ... cream rises to the top and Dobbs rose to the occasion and that is what you should be looking for

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2018, 08:55 AM
oh I am sure it had " something to do with it " that said that is what Jones played against for the majority of the snaps he has ever played ( more preseason snaps than regular season ) and Jones NEVER looked that good ... not just 1 night for Dobbs his preseason rating is 111 ... and averaged 10 yards per attempt ( not completion ) attempt !

Why does your discussion always have to bring things back to bashing Jones? Good for Rudolph and Dobbs for being successful last night, I have only seen highlights but the final preseason game is usually for the 2nd and 3rd string guys to make that last impression. Sometimes its easier to complete passes against guys that know they don't have a chance to make the 53 and will be applying to Foot Locker in a couple weeks. Tomlin referred to those guys as being on a "death march".

Dwinsgames
08-31-2018, 09:09 AM
Why does your discussion always have to bring things back to bashing Jones? Good for Rudolph and Dobbs for being successful last night, I have only seen highlights but the final preseason game is usually for the 2nd and 3rd string guys to make that last impression. Sometimes its easier to complete passes against guys that know they don't have a chance to make the 53 and will be applying to Foot Locker in a couple weeks. Tomlin referred to those guys as being on a "death march".



for guys on a death march they where sure playing in our backfield a whole hell of a lot ...

and the guys Dobbs played with won't be those guys primary competition at those footlocker jobs ?

cream rises to the top always look for that cream

why do you have an opinion on something you haven't even seen yourself would be the question of the day IMO ...

but I digress ....w/e

AtlantaDan
08-31-2018, 09:14 AM
oh I am sure it had " something to do with it " that said that is what Jones played against for the majority of the snaps he has ever played ( more preseason snaps than regular season ) and Jones NEVER looked that good ... not just 1 night for Dobbs his preseason rating is 111 ... and averaged 10 yards per attempt ( not completion ) attempt !

NEVER is pretty strong

This was Jones in week three of the 2016 preseason, when he replaced Ben after Ben played two series and presumably was playing against defenders higher on the depth chart than those on the Panthers roster last night who will soon be pursuing their life's work after football

19-22 86.4% 206 yards 1TD O INT 120.8 rating

http://www.nfl.com/player/landryjones/2539287/gamelogs?season=2016

This was Jones in the second half of the 2015 regular season game against the Cardinals after he was brought in following the end of the Mike Vick era with the Steelers

8-12 167 yards 2 TD 0 INT 149.3 rating

http://www.nfl.com/player/landryjones/2539287/gamelogs?season=2015

It is too bad the Steelers effectively wrote off a draft pick on Dobbs in 2017 when Rudolph was regarded as too good to pass up in the third round in 2018.

But if this roster is designed to win now rather than in two or three years having two back ups who have never taken a regular season snap to hold the fort for perhaps 3-4 games (if Ben is knocked out for the season the Steelers could have me as the backup since the season will be cooked) is a high risk strategy and Jones is the higher % play for this season - a backup with no regular season snaps worked with Ben in 2004 but that offense was a lot different in terms of pass/run emphasis & Ben obviously was regarded more highly as a first round pick

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2018, 10:23 AM
why do you have an opinion on something you haven't even seen yourself would be the question of the day IMO ...

but I digress ....w/e

Why do I have an opinion on something I haven't seen??? Because as a fan for close to 40 years, I know that the final preseason game isn't about playing the starters and I have seen a couple highlights from last nights game and know that a lot of 2nd and 3rd string guys were likely playing.

I really don't care if they keep Jones or Dobbs, but I'm pretty sure they wont give up on Rudolph this early. Objectively I see strengths and weaknesses in these QB's vying for the final 2 spots behind Ben in terms of being passers that include footwork, progressions, smart decision making, arm strength, etc. I'm not campaigning for anybody like some fans here seem to be.

Mojouw
08-31-2018, 10:41 AM
Why does your discussion always have to bring things back to bashing Jones? Good for Rudolph and Dobbs for being successful last night, I have only seen highlights but the final preseason game is usually for the 2nd and 3rd string guys to make that last impression. Sometimes its easier to complete passes against guys that know they don't have a chance to make the 53 and will be applying to Foot Locker in a couple weeks. Tomlin referred to those guys as being on a "death march".

If all you have seen is highlights, it is kind of hard to get what DWins and others are trying to point out. Even the stats, be they Jones', Rudolph's, or Dobbs', do not do a great job of highlighting the differences many of us think we saw between Dobbs/Rudoplh and previous years version of Preseason Jones. Those differences include

1. A continual effort to challenge defenses down the field and between the hashes. In other words, Dobbs and Rudolph on multiple occasions in preseasons games looked to stress the defense both horizontally and vertically even when that required pushing the ball into small windows.

2. Both Rudolph and Dobbs made plays and extended plays in the face of consistent pressure and often unblocked pass rushers. While it is possible that Jones has done this before, many of us are not able to recall it.

3. Dobbs has looked totally different this preseason than last. He looks confident, composed, and in control. This only his 2nd go-round. While Jones looks confident, composed, and in control as well, it is his 5th or 6th go round and he has a track record of doing two things in games -- not challenging defenses and turning the ball over. The idea being that one has plateaued and one is still ascending. To put it in Tomlin speak -- "his arrow is pointing up".

4. Rudolph is justifying his draft position. He has looked more confident and in control each time he has stepped on the field. He appears decisive and absolutely fearless.


Long story short, Dobbs and Rudolph may not be putting pure stats on paper that simply blow Jones' away, but just watching the three play - two look confident and aggressive, and one doesn't. That is what many of us are trying to get at.

But as Slashy pointed out -- NFL teams are extremely orthodox in their thinking and Jones' "veteraness" will force Dobbs off the roster.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2018, 11:01 AM
Mojouw, I agree that Dobbs has looked more comfortable this season and that is expected of most 2nd year guys. I don't think that if the Steelers keep Jones, it will be because of "veteraness" as you want to believe. Coaches evaluate without the biases that fans have and with a greater detail of qualities that are important to them, unlike fans who look at QB ratings, fantasy points and 40 times.

Maybe the Steelers will think that Dobbs is ready to be the #2 QB and try to move Jones. It really doesn't matter to me, as I think the guy we should be looking at is Rudolph and he is a year or 2 away from possibly being a starter.

I just know that the final game of preseason is not for the starters and coaches can evaluate what they see in terms of footwork, read progressions, decision making etc against backups and 3rd string players without looking at results like most fans do. Honestly there isn't a Steelers player that caught a pass last night other than Justin Hunter, who will make the 53 and they were likely playing against similar defensive players. Fans will get excited by QB ratings of Rudolph and Dobbs against those on a death march, but the coaches will look deeper at the performances than the stats.




REC
YDS
AVG
TD
LONG
TGTS


Tevin Jones (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2586703/tevin-jones)
3
90
30.0
2
39
5


Justin Hunter (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/15845/justin-hunter)
3
72
24.0
0
46
4


Bucky Hodges (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3045466/bucky-hodges)
2
43
21.5
0
36
2


Quadree Henderson (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3895789/quadree-henderson)
2
24
12.0
1
17
2


Trey Griffey (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2971233/trey-griffey)
1
15
15.0
0
15
3


Stevan Ridley (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/14028/stevan-ridley)
1
5
5.0
0
5
1


Pharoah McKever (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3051719/pharoah-mckever)
1
4
4.0
0
4
2

Mojouw
08-31-2018, 11:18 AM
Mojouw, I agree that Dobbs has looked more comfortable this season and that is expected of most 2nd year guys. I don't think that if the Steelers keep Jones, it will be because of "veteraness" as you want to believe. Coaches evaluate without the biases that fans have and with a greater detail of qualities that are important to them, unlike fans who look at QB ratings, fantasy points and 40 times.

Maybe the Steelers will think that Dobbs is ready to be the #2 QB and try to move Jones. It really doesn't matter to me, as I think the guy we should be looking at is Rudolph and he is a year or 2 away from possibly being a starter.

I just know that the final game of preseason is not for the starters and coaches can evaluate what they see in terms of footwork, read progressions, decision making etc against backups and 3rd string players without looking at results like most fans do. Honestly there isn't a Steelers player that caught a pass last night other than Justin Hunter, who will make the 53 and they were likely playing against similar defensive players. Fans will get excited by QB ratings of Rudolph and Dobbs against those on a death march, but the coaches will look deeper at the performances than the stats.




REC
YDS
AVG
TD
LONG
TGTS


Tevin Jones (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2586703/tevin-jones)
3
90
30.0
2
39
5


Justin Hunter (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/15845/justin-hunter)
3
72
24.0
0
46
4


Bucky Hodges (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3045466/bucky-hodges)
2
43
21.5
0
36
2


Quadree Henderson (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3895789/quadree-henderson)
2
24
12.0
1
17
2


Trey Griffey (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2971233/trey-griffey)
1
15
15.0
0
15
3


Stevan Ridley (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/14028/stevan-ridley)
1
5
5.0
0
5
1


Pharoah McKever (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3051719/pharoah-mckever)
1
4
4.0
0
4
2




I completely agree. I am trying to point out that when you look past the stats and look at the performance of the 3 QBs, if I was making the dispassionate and logic based decision, I would move on from Landry Jones.

Just watching the three of them play this preseason and throwing stats out the window, Jones is still reluctant to challenge defenses vertically and to make tight window throws horizontally. He likes open guys and "safe" places to put the football. That is great and in a certain sense EXACTLY what you want in a back-up QB. As long as that back-up only ever plays in mop-up duty and for like a game here or a game there. Now if the back-up has to go out and play a season (Keenum) or half a season and the playoffs (Foles) then "safe" is useless and everyone might as well pack up and go home. Over multiple games, safe is not a sustainable strategy for an NFL team. Everyone like to crap all over Bortles and it is often justified, but he makes teams defend the whole field. And he challenges defenses. In the Steelers playoff games he hit a few deep shots and if the Pats corner doesn't lay out and get a fingertip on a ball, Bortles makes enough plays to get the Jags to a SB. Another example is McCown. He looks good as a back-up and terrible as a starter because he doesn't challenge defenses and then the other team can just tee off.

Another way to think about it is who do you see when you watch Jones, Dobbs, and Rudolph play? For Dobbs I see a bit of Tyrod Taylor and a young Chaz Batch or maybe a a version of Bortles that trades arm strength for accuracy. For Rudolph, hard to say. He has far to go but he seems to play with more fire than I have ever seen Jones display. For Jones, I see every journeyman career back-up ever. For the other two, if I squint I see potential non-elite NFL starter.

So unless Jones just makes Ben and the coaching staff so warm and snuggly at night as a security blanket, why keep him around?

Fire Goodell
08-31-2018, 11:34 AM
So both QB's had statistical success !!! I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact they were playing against 2nd and 3rd string defenders the majority of the night?

What has Landry done over the years vs 2nd and 3rd string comp? Pass for 0 TD's lol

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2018, 11:39 AM
Another way to think about it is who do you see when you watch Jones, Dobbs, and Rudolph play? For Dobbs I see a bit of Tyrod Taylor and a young Chaz Batch or maybe a a version of Bortles that trades arm strength for accuracy. For Rudolph, hard to say. He has far to go but he seems to play with more fire than I have ever seen Jones display. For Jones, I see every journeyman career back-up ever. For the other two, if I squint I see potential non-elite NFL starter.

So unless Jones just makes Ben and the coaching staff so warm and snuggly at night as a security blanket, why keep him around?

Good question about comparisons. Here is what I see

Josh Dobbs- looks like a young Kordell Stewart. When he sets his back foot and throws in rhythm, he delivers a good short and intermediate pass with accuracy and velocity to WR;s(Stewart had stronger arm). When faced with pressure he scrambles and rarely re-sets his feet, either leading to a QB run or a pass from running position, which can be completion to a wide open WR, or inaccurate throw due to lack of throwing base.

Landry Jones- reminds me of Frank Reich. Not mobile, rather stoic in the pocket but good mechanics and footwork and makes good passes in short to intermediate range. Has arm strength to throw the deep out. I think Reich was a better thrower of the deep ball, but both have arm strength to throw it vertical. Will slide in the pocket and keep their eyes downfield to find their next read. Neither seemed to be the athlete to run with the football.

Mason Rudolph- reminds me of Jim Harbaugh. Both have strong arm and are decent enough athletes to evade the rush, but they quickly look to square their feet up and look for the open WR, not run for yardage. Both students of the game and football junkies. Make pre snap reads and have decisions of first read, strong arm to throw the ball into tight windows. I think Rudolph has some mechanical issues with his feet and left hand coming off the football too soon, but early comparison is Harbaugh.

Fire Goodell
08-31-2018, 11:57 AM
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article217584185.html

Looks like there's some interest in Carolina bringing in Dobbs to back up Newton, hmm... Not official interest, but it seems people took notice in Dobbs' performance.

Mojouw
08-31-2018, 12:11 PM
Good question about comparisons. Here is what I see

Josh Dobbs- looks like a young Kordell Stewart. When he sets his back foot and throws in rhythm, he delivers a good short and intermediate pass with accuracy and velocity to WR;s(Stewart had stronger arm). When faced with pressure he scrambles and rarely re-sets his feet, either leading to a QB run or a pass from running position, which can be completion to a wide open WR, or inaccurate throw due to lack of throwing base.

Landry Jones- reminds me of Frank Reich. Not mobile, rather stoic in the pocket but good mechanics and footwork and makes good passes in short to intermediate range. Has arm strength to throw the deep out. I think Reich was a better thrower of the deep ball, but both have arm strength to throw it vertical. Will slide in the pocket and keep their eyes downfield to find their next read. Neither seemed to be the athlete to run with the football.

Mason Rudolph- reminds me of Jim Harbaugh. Both have strong arm and are decent enough athletes to evade the rush, but they quickly look to square their feet up and look for the open WR, not run for yardage. Both students of the game and football junkies. Make pre snap reads and have decisions of first read, strong arm to throw the ball into tight windows. I think Rudolph has some mechanical issues with his feet and left hand coming off the football too soon, but early comparison is Harbaugh.

Not sure I can disagree with any of that. I also know that any specific breakdown of QB mechanics is not going to go well for me and I trust your evaluations on that front.

The only thing I will take issue with is the fact that how does one account for some less tangible things? Not really meaning leadership and those typical QB things, but I simply cant shake the fact that Jones INT to TD ratio in regular season games is right around 1 for 1. And I could be letting my brain play tricks on me and allowing my bias to shine through, but I just don't remember Landry consistently lining up and slinging it the way Dobbs and Rudolph have this camp and preseason. I get that no one knows what would happen if the young guys played in a real live NFL game but I can't shake the impression I have that Landry is the "safe" guy who turns the ball over and struggles to put his playmakers in position to make plays. While Dobbs and Rudolph project as young QBs who will make mistakes but have the mindset to push the ball to their playmakers and accept turnovers as a potential cost of doing business.

I just don't see Landry Jones playing 4-8 games in a row and coming out anything better than 4-4. I see flashes of Dobbs and Rudolph going 5-3 or better if a few things break their way.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 12:31 PM
One of my biggest takeaways watching the young QB's is the play calling. In years past the offense was extremely conservative, too much run run pass, and a lot of screen passes. Much more aggressive in terms of looking down field. I think Jones when he was a 'developmental QB' would look good.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-31-2018, 12:32 PM
Not sure I can disagree with any of that. I also know that any specific breakdown of QB mechanics is not going to go well for me and I trust your evaluations on that front.

The only thing I will take issue with is the fact that how does one account for some less tangible things? Not really meaning leadership and those typical QB things, but I simply cant shake the fact that Jones INT to TD ratio in regular season games is right around 1 for 1. And I could be letting my brain play tricks on me and allowing my bias to shine through, but I just don't remember Landry consistently lining up and slinging it the way Dobbs and Rudolph have this camp and preseason. I get that no one knows what would happen if the young guys played in a real live NFL game but I can't shake the impression I have that Landry is the "safe" guy who turns the ball over and struggles to put his playmakers in position to make plays. While Dobbs and Rudolph project as young QBs who will make mistakes but have the mindset to push the ball to their playmakers and accept turnovers as a potential cost of doing business.

I just don't see Landry Jones playing 4-8 games in a row and coming out anything better than 4-4. I see flashes of Dobbs and Rudolph going 5-3 or better if a few things break their way.

Have a look at Charlie Batch or Frank Reich as referenced and their TD:INT ratio is similarly 1:1. If QB's had a 2:1 ratio, they normally are Starting QB's and not backups.

Jones had footwork issues his first 2-3 seasons in the NFL IMO. He didn't "sling it" well with accuracy IMO due to not having his feet set in the right direction. Same too with the young guys when they don't get their feet set, they underthrow things with less velocity, like Dobbs to Griffey last night. Jones has the arm strength and can and does throw the digs, skinny post and outs into tight windows....you contend he is safe and not challenging deep with the football and that could be correct. Maybe that is with experience.

I saw a interview with a experienced WR like Doug Baldwin or similar and he was asked....."would you rather have a guy that throws 30TD passes and 20 INT, or a guy that throws 10TD and 0 INT?". His response was, "the guy that throws 0 INT's, because turnovers in the NFL cost you and can be hard to overcome".

I'm not worried about a backup QB pushing the football down the field or anything like that. I'm thinking as a DC, who do I fear more?...the guy that can complete passes and always keeps looking downfield for his receivers in the pass game, or the guy that is more apt to tuck the ball away and run, taking his eyes off the receivers. Any time as a DC I can make a QB into a runner, I'm less worried about an offense. I personally would rather defend Dobbs under center on Sunday than Jones or Rudolph.

Mojouw
08-31-2018, 01:05 PM
Have a look at Charlie Batch or Frank Reich as referenced and their TD:INT ratio is similarly 1:1. If QB's had a 2:1 ratio, they normally are Starting QB's and not backups.

Jones had footwork issues his first 2-3 seasons in the NFL IMO. He didn't "sling it" well with accuracy IMO due to not having his feet set in the right direction. Same too with the young guys when they don't get their feet set, they underthrow things with less velocity, like Dobbs to Griffey last night. Jones has the arm strength and can and does throw the digs, skinny post and outs into tight windows....you contend he is safe and not challenging deep with the football and that could be correct. Maybe that is with experience.

I saw a interview with a experienced WR like Doug Baldwin or similar and he was asked....."would you rather have a guy that throws 30TD passes and 20 INT, or a guy that throws 10TD and 0 INT?". His response was, "the guy that throws 0 INT's, because turnovers in the NFL cost you and can be hard to overcome".

I'm not worried about a backup QB pushing the football down the field or anything like that. I'm thinking as a DC, who do I fear more?...the guy that can complete passes and always keeps looking downfield for his receivers in the pass game, or the guy that is more apt to tuck the ball away and run, taking his eyes off the receivers. Any time as a DC I can make a QB into a runner, I'm less worried about an offense. I personally would rather defend Dobbs under center on Sunday than Jones or Rudolph.

A couple of things. I never really thought Batch was that good as a back-up after his first couple of seasons in Pittsburgh. His arm was gone and he was living on wiles and the run game/defense.

As to the run and eyes thing, try and find a replay of Dobbs last night. That;s exactly what he did. Dobbs can run but he doesn't really look to.

I can and do see the logic and basis for keeping Jones. I am almost certainly downgrading Jones and upgrading Dobbs. But I have seen more improvement in Dobbs in far less playing time than I have ever seen in Jones counting those preseasons where he was force-fed almost every snap.

Also, by nature I am gonna gamble on the younger more aggressive player 10/10 times if I ran a team. Which may be one of the many reasons why I don't run a team...!

st33lersguy
08-31-2018, 01:56 PM
Personally, I would choose the guy who in two preseasons entered as raw and underdeveloped and really balled in his 2nd preseason over a guy that after his 6th preseason, improved from a junior high level QB impersonating a 3rd string NFL QB to a guy good enough to beat the 1-31 Browns twice. We know what we have in Landry and it's not much at all, his resume after his 6th preseason is pretty unimpressive.

pczach
08-31-2018, 02:27 PM
Personally, I would choose the guy who in two preseasons entered as raw and underdeveloped and really balled in his 2nd preseason over a guy that after his 6th preseason, improved from a junior high level QB impersonating a 3rd string NFL QB to a guy good enough to beat the 1-31 Browns twice. We know what we have in Landry and it's not much at all, his resume after his 6th preseason is pretty unimpressive.


I really like Dobbs' upside too, but I don't want to just bash Landry Jones. Jones has become a competent backup QB, and there is a reason they have felt comfortable with him as a backup.

This tells you that the team has drafted quarterback talent very well for not using first round picks. There is legitimate competition for the backup QB positions with a good, established veteran in Jones, and two young kids showing there stuff early.

Remember when the team couldn't identify a quarterback that could even consistently hit wide open receivers? It is refreshing that there is at the very least some good-looking young prospects with some arm talent and football IQ to execute NFL offenses.....and other teams are interested in castoff Steelers quarterbacks. How times have changed. :grin:

Fire Goodell
08-31-2018, 02:30 PM
Not sure I'd call him a competent backup even. I remember having to put Ben back in a game where he literally had a separated shoulder because keeping Landry in was a death sentence. A competent backup would have performed well enough that you wouldn't have to put your already injured starter out there to risk an even more serious injury.

Craic
08-31-2018, 02:30 PM
I really like Dobbs' upside too, but I don't want to just bash Landry Jones. Jones has become a competent backup QB, and there is a reason they have felt comfortable with him as a backup.

This tells you that the team has drafted quarterback talent very well for not using first round picks. There is legitimate competition for the backup QB positions with a good, established veteran in Jones, and two young kids showing there stuff early.

Remember when the team couldn't identify a quarterback that could even consistently hit wide open receivers? It is refreshing that there is at the very least some good-looking young prospects with some arm talent and football IQ to execute NFL offenses.....and other teams are interested in castoff Steelers quarterbacks. How times have changed. :grin:

If we didn't have Dobbs, I'd be somewhat comfortable with Jones after this preseason. He showed he can be solid and perhaps, not lose games for the Steelers. I don't think he'll win games. That'd be on a few other players, but he wouldn't lose games for them. That being said, I felt last night that Dobbs has the ability to go out and win games. I was so impressed with his ability to escape the pressure and still look downfield to make the pass. That part of his game actually reminded me of Ben in his youth as well, that and his arm strength.

pczach
08-31-2018, 02:46 PM
Not sure I'd call him a competent backup even. I remember having to put Ben back in a game where he literally had a separated shoulder because keeping Landry in was a death sentence. A competent backup would have performed well enough that you wouldn't have to put your already injured starter out there to risk an even more serious injury.



Jones has progressed since then.

Look, I think Dobbs should stay. I have made that clear in other posts. I just don't want to turn this into a Landry Jones sucks thread. He has accomplished some things and improved while here.

My post was to put a positive spin on the state of the quarterback position with this team. There is talent there, and there are some choices to make....and that's a good thing.

- - - Updated - - -


If we didn't have Dobbs, I'd be somewhat comfortable with Jones after this preseason. He showed he can be solid and perhaps, not lose games for the Steelers. I don't think he'll win games. That'd be on a few other players, but he wouldn't lose games for them. That being said, I felt last night that Dobbs has the ability to go out and win games. I was so impressed with his ability to escape the pressure and still look downfield to make the pass. That part of his game actually reminded me of Ben in his youth as well, that and his arm strength.



I like the way Dobbs has progressed. I also like the way he pushes the ball down the field, while adding the ability to play outside the playbook with his athleticism.

st33lersguy
08-31-2018, 02:48 PM
Not sure I'd call him a competent backup even. I remember having to put Ben back in a game where he literally had a separated shoulder because keeping Landry in was a death sentence. A competent backup would have performed well enough that you wouldn't have to put your already injured starter out there to risk an even more serious injury.

That was the playoff game against the Bengals. He would have single handedly lost that playoff game were it not for a crazy 1 in a million series of events.

SteelMember
08-31-2018, 03:02 PM
Funny how a good showing in the last preseason game has folks (including myself) now questioning what to do. I was sure Dobbs would be the odd man out prior to training camp. No way they could let the experienced backup walk. They had made an investment, and they still had a year to go. No way they could just cut a rookie draft pick they just moved up to land. Yeah, he's not going anywhere. Some tough decisions the FO is now faced with could come down to one question... Who can we win with now if they had to play tomorrow. I'm still not so sure, but even a "game manager" isn't a wrong answer. Honestly, I don't recall the QB cuts being this difficult in the past. We usually have more trouble finding one decent guy to call #2. :chuckle:

Good problem to have.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 03:16 PM
Hating on Jones for not playing well in a postseason game which took luck of a fumble to win, but want to keep Dobbs over him because he looked great against 3rd and 4th stringers after not having a good preseason.

Jones is better than Dobbs. I don't care about who was better in their 2nd year, it's Irrelevant. Jones is the better backup as of right now. Jones has shown he can play against NFL players.

Dobbs has no future here. Rudolph is viewed as the next guy after Ben as of "today".

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-31-2018, 03:21 PM
I thought Dobbs look good both other preseason games he played prior to this one. I figured he would shine in this one but he even looked better then I thought. Landry is the right choice if we have a Defense like the past and just need a QB to play it safe and rely on the defense to win the game. We don't have that and the offense is the strength of the team. IMO we need a QB like Dobbs that will go out and try to win the game for you. I'll say it again if Ben goes out for significant time, I will consider the season is lost with Landry but with Dobbs I think we still could have a chance.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 03:28 PM
Look no further than last years Eagles. Just because you lose your QB doesn't mean your season is done. If Ben goes down the plan should still be to win games.


I'm sure many laugh at the thought of Jones helping this team win or even get to the postseason. I would have given myself an brain aneurysm from laughing had someone told me Nick Foles would help the Eagles win a SB and win SB MVP last year.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-31-2018, 03:34 PM
Of course to win games should still be the plan but have little faith that Landry can do that and just my opinion. As for the the Eagles they probably had the best back up in the league in NF. I remember when he set a record for 7 tds in one game. I think Manning tied it a year or so later when He was having amazing year in Denver.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 03:40 PM
Of course to win games should still be the plan but have little faith that Landry can do that and just my opinion. As for the the Eagles they probably had the best back up in the league in NF. I remember when he set a record for 7 tds in one game. I think Manning tied it a year or so later when He was having amazing year in Denver.

Foles had one great year, but clearly it was a fluke since he never came close to repeating it, until caught fire the last two games of last season(CCG vs Vikings and SB vs Pats). FWIW, Foles didn't looked good in the preseason.

I would rate Foles over Jones for the fact he did win a SB, but other than that Jones is on that tier. He's a good back up.

Fire Goodell
08-31-2018, 03:51 PM
Jones is nowhere near the tier of Nick Foles. Jones has only started in 5 games, with a record of 3-2 (all wins vs the Browns, one game he got knocked out early and an injured Ben came in and did all the work, so that one shouldn't even count). Foles has a TON more experience, 39 games as a starter, and even made the pro bowl back in 2013. I don't think Landry Jones has anything close to Nick Foles' credentials. Oh and winning the SB is huge, LJ got benched for Ben with a separated shoulder in the playoff win vs Cincy cause he couldn't do dick.

LJ is and always was, a mediocre backup at best. If anything I'd be willing to bet he's the lower tier of backups.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 04:32 PM
Jones is nowhere near the tier of Nick Foles. Jones has only started in 5 games, with a record of 3-2 (all wins vs the Browns, one game he got knocked out early and an injured Ben came in and did all the work, so that one shouldn't even count). Foles has a TON more experience, 39 games as a starter, and even made the pro bowl back in 2013. I don't think Landry Jones has anything close to Nick Foles' credentials. Oh and winning the SB is huge, LJ got benched for Ben with a separated shoulder in the playoff win vs Cincy cause he couldn't do dick.

LJ is and always was, a mediocre backup at best. If anything I'd be willing to bet he's the lower tier of backups.

Like you didn't even read what I wrote.


Foles had one fluke season, other than that he's been exactly like Jones. A good back up. Yes Jones wins were against the Browns but who cares? he won, mostly with no AB and other help. Also don't forget about Jones vs the Cardinals. He helped bring the Steelers back, they don't make the postseason if they lose that game. What were his losses? One being the Pats(played well btw) and the other being the Chiefs I believe in Kansas City.

He played on one drive vs the Bengals. Yes he got intercepted but Burfict made a great play(Believe Wheaton ran the wrong route, can't quite remember). As I said, Foles looked bad last year until the last two games. Foles is better than Jones but again, still on the same tier.


Name better back up QB's that are head and shoulders better than Jones. I'll spot you Foles and Bridgewater. One being a SB champion, and other who should be a starter.


Also, the continue use of judging Jones from his play early in his NFL career isn't logical to use today. Jones has improved leap and bounds. Just because Dobbs may be better than second year Jones doesn't make him better.

Fire Goodell
08-31-2018, 04:40 PM
Like you didn't even read what I wrote.


Foles had one fluke season, other than that he's been exactly like Jones. A good back up. Yes Jones wins were against the Browns but who cares? he won, mostly with no AB and other help. Also don't forget about Jones vs the Cardinals. He helped bring the Steelers back, they don't make the postseason if they lose that game. What were his losses? One being the Pats(played well btw) and the other being the Chiefs I believe in Kansas City.

He played on one drive vs the Bengals. Yes he got intercepted but Burfict made a great play(Believe Wheaton ran the wrong route, can't quite remember). As I said, Foles looked bad last year until the last two games. Foles is better than Jones but again, still on the same tier.


Name better back up QB's that are head and shoulders better than Jones.

One fluke season is much better than anything Jones accomplished during his mediocre career in the NFL. He had one good game vs the Cardinals, but that's about it.

I don't follow many teams other than the Steelers, but I'll say historically we've had QB's I'd take over Jones in a heartbeat. Batch, Leftwich, Tomczak, Brister just to name a few off the top.

And I did read what you wrote, and I totally disagree that LJ is on the same tier as Foles. Foles' pro bowl season might have been a fluke, but LJ would not have even had a fluky season as a starter, he simply doesn't have that ability to. You think someone who was notorious for 0 TD games in preseason vs 2nd and 3rd stringers in his first 3-4 season, would throw 27 as a starter in the regular season? I certainly don't. If he gets "lucky", he might throw 15.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 04:52 PM
Jones >> Batch, Leftwich, Tomczak. I'll give you Brister over Jones but meh.

Jones is a good back up, Steelers believe so, and reports is that Jones has trade interest across the league. Also read that Pat Kerwin CBSSports was talking about how good Jones is on one of his podcast. Landry is a respected back up point blank.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 05:10 PM
Jones: Vet QB who has shown the abilty to play in the NFL, also has wins under his resume. CUT HIM!!!!

Dobbs: Poor preseason until the final game which is he plays well against 3rd/4th stringers(some won't even make the practice squad). Back up QB!!!!!

Fire Goodell
08-31-2018, 05:23 PM
Dobbs had a stronger preseason showing than any Landry has put together lol.

Jones a vet QB whose only wins as a starter came against a team that went 1-31 over the last 2 seasons, QUICK SIGN HIM TO AN EXTENSION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! :chuckle: lol, we could have beat Clevleand putting big dan mccullers in at qb

Born2Steel
08-31-2018, 05:26 PM
Jones has the experience and Ben and Fichtner love the guy. However, LJ is on the last year of his contract I think.
MR is not off the trade block. I understand the thoughts on that but think about the trade value.
Dobbs is the most likely to be shopped for trade. He improved his value this preseason and makes the most sense to get traded.
Ben's not going anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dwinsgames
08-31-2018, 05:31 PM
Good question about comparisons. Here is what I see

Josh Dobbs- looks like a young Kordell Stewart. When he sets his back foot and throws in rhythm, he delivers a good short and intermediate pass with accuracy and velocity to WR;s(Stewart had stronger arm). When faced with pressure he scrambles and rarely re-sets his feet, either leading to a QB run or a pass from running position, which can be completion to a wide open WR, or inaccurate throw due to lack of throwing base.

Landry Jones- reminds me of Frank Reich. Not mobile, rather stoic in the pocket but good mechanics and footwork and makes good passes in short to intermediate range. Has arm strength to throw the deep out. I think Reich was a better thrower of the deep ball, but both have arm strength to throw it vertical. Will slide in the pocket and keep their eyes downfield to find their next read. Neither seemed to be the athlete to run with the football.

Mason Rudolph- reminds me of Jim Harbaugh. Both have strong arm and are decent enough athletes to evade the rush, but they quickly look to square their feet up and look for the open WR, not run for yardage. Both students of the game and football junkies. Make pre snap reads and have decisions of first read, strong arm to throw the ball into tight windows. I think Rudolph has some mechanical issues with his feet and left hand coming off the football too soon, but early comparison is Harbaugh.

Dobbs last night looked more like Cam Newton than Kordell Stewart

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Jones: Vet QB who has shown the abilty to play in the NFL, also has wins under his resume. CUT HIM!!!!

Dobbs: Poor preseason until the final game which is he plays well against 3rd/4th stringers(some won't even make the practice squad). Back up QB!!!!!

poor preseason until last game ? what games where you watching ? he was 21-32 prior to last nights game

averaged 10 yards per pass attempt this preseason ( not per completion per attempt )

Born2Steel
08-31-2018, 05:31 PM
Dobbs last night looked more like Cam Newton than Kordell Stewart

Send Dobbs and Bell to Carolina for Luke Kuechly? As if...


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Edman
08-31-2018, 05:35 PM
Jones: Vet QB who has shown the abilty to play in the NFL, also has wins under his resume. CUT HIM!!!!

Let's look at those "wins" shall we?

Two wins over the greasefire that is the 1-31 Browns in meaningless games where the Steelers already clinched and were resting Ben, Bell, and Brown.


Dobbs: Poor preseason until the final game which is he plays well against 3rd/4th stringers(some won't even make the practice squad). Back up QB!!!!!

Keep moving those goalposts.

Landry Jones struggles against said 3rd/4th stringer scrubs for years, and he still does. He was awful against the Titans.

Poor Preseason? Where in this preseason did Dobbs ever come close to playing "poor"? I want to see it. I've seen some mistakes from Dobbs obviously, but when did he ever play "poor"? Dobbs consistently put up solid performances all through preseason against the same level of competition that Landry Jones plays like shit against.

Dobbs simply brings more to the table than Landry. Period. He has upped his game in a tremendous way over his rookie season, and that warrants a roster spot. If not here, then on another team.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 05:35 PM
Dobbs last night looked more like Cam Newton than Kordell Stewart

- - - Updated - - -



poor preseason until last game ? what games where you watching ? he was 21-32 prior to last nights game

averaged 10 yards per pass attempt this preseason ( not per completion per attempt )

He made horrible throws against the Eagles, should've been picked multiple times. Good TD throw to Patterson though.

Pick six vs Packers. James Washington saved him from 2 interceptions (yes both throws were bad.)


Dobbs has talent, and will be a good back up for some team for years to come, he just isn't ready yet.

BlackAndGold
08-31-2018, 05:51 PM
Dobbs had a stronger preseason showing than any Landry has put together lol.

Jones a vet QB whose only wins as a starter came against a team that went 1-31 over the last 2 seasons, QUICK SIGN HIM TO AN EXTENSION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! :chuckle: lol, we could have beat Clevleand putting big dan mccullers in at qb

That Browns team almost beat the Steelers last year with Ben under center.

Since we're discrediting Jones for beating Cleveland, lets start discrediting Ben's wins over them also. He at least has a complete supporting cast when doing so. Hell, has Jones ever loss to a bad QB before? His wins may be against Cleveland, and Cardinals with Carson Palmer at QB. But loss to the likes of Brady and Alex Smith. How dare he lose to Brady...Mettenberger >> Jones

FrancoLambert
08-31-2018, 10:23 PM
I was all in on keeping Landry and seeing Dobbs go. I bought into the experience LJ has.
I bought into the "if Ben goes down for 4, LJ gives us the best chance for 2-2"
No more.
I saw more dynamic plays from Dobbs in one half than LJ has produced in ?????
This kid knew the spotlight was on him...to make the Steelers or another team. He was faced with a lot pf pressure and handled it very well.
Seeing that kind of growth in just one year is something to pay attention to.

st33lersguy
08-31-2018, 10:26 PM
Landry will never be the guy that can pick up the slack in the postseason. Remember when he played in the postseason? He almost single-handedly lost the game against the Bengirls

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-31-2018, 10:32 PM
Heck if Landry played that first half instead of Dobbs. With all those miss blocks, you would have seen Landry going to the ground quick in the fetal position each passing play.