Steelers GM Kevin Colbert doesn't rule out singing an ILB

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers GM Kevin Colbert doesn't rule out singing an ILB

By BRYAN DEARDO

Kevin Colbert and the Pittsburgh Steelers might still be shopping despite training camp already being underway. Speaking to reporters before Friday afternoon's practice, Pittsburgh's GM was asked about his inside linebacker situation. The Steelers will play this season without Pro Bowl linebacker Ryan Shazier, who underwent spine stabilization surgery last December. Newcomer Jon Bostic and three year veteran Tyler Matakevich rotated with the first team defense during Thursday's practice.

There are several veteran inside linebackers that are currently free agents. Among them is former Bengals linebacker Rey Maualuga, who started for the Bengals from 2009-15. Also available is former Houston Texans linebacker Brian Cushing, former 49ers linebacker Navorro Bowman, former Steelers linebacker Lawrence Timmons and former All-Pro linebacker Elvis Dumervil. While Pittsburgh may be considering signing one of these players, it's clear that Matakevich will be given every opportunity to win the job to start alongside fellow inside linebacker, Vince Williams.

While Matakevich's ability as a player is not in question, his health could be the only thing stopping him from becoming Pittsburgh's new starting inside linebacker in 2018. Steelers' head coach Mike Tomlin recently addressed Matakevich, who is coming back from a shoulder injury that required offseason surgery.

to read rest of article:

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/Steelers-GM-Kevin-Colbert-doesnt-rule-out-singing-an-ILB-120136720

[EzraTank]

Cushing gets hurt getting out of bed.

[Fire Goodell]

Has Bowman fell off that far? It seems odd he didn't get any offers

[hawaiiansteeler]

Cushing gets hurt getting out of bed.

too many PEDs for too long of a time...

- - - Updated - - -


Has Bowman fell off that far? It seems odd he didn't get any offers

NaVorro Bowman should be veteran LB Pittsburgh Steelers sign

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Bolt/NaVorro-Bowman-should-be-veteran-LB-Pittsburgh-Steelers-sign-117972602

[Mojouw]

It is like everyone forgets that the Steelers signed the #12 ranked ILB against the run in FA already.

I have no idea whether or not Bostic is the answer, but at this point in their respective careers, how big is the gap between Bowman and Bostic?

I suspect that it isn't $3 million per season.

[BlackAndGold]

Hopefully they'll be some solid options on the trade market.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

It is like everyone forgets that the Steelers signed the #12 ranked ILB against the run in FA already.

I have no idea whether or not Bostic is the answer, but at this point in their respective careers, how big is the gap between Bowman and Bostic?

I suspect that it isn't $3 million per season.

Are you saying that there are only 11 ILB better in the NFL than Jon Bostic? I wonder if fans on this board can name 25 better than Bostic?

[Mojouw]

Are you saying that there are only 11 ILB better in the NFL than Jon Bostic? I wonder if fans on this board can name 25 better than Bostic?

No. I am making the limited point that solely against the run, Bostic was ranked #12 in 2017 by some rating service, likely PFF (I don;t remember and am too lazy to look it up again).

Bowman had a decent season as well against the run from what i can gather, but since I don’t pay PFF, I cant find their direct comparison #s.

Bostic will make 1.5 million on the cap this year. Based on the above, is Bowman 3 million dollars better on first and second down? By all accounts Bowman is NOT capable of playing on 3rd down any longer due to age and injury.

That’s what I am saying.

[Born2Steel]

No. I am making the limited point that solely against the run, Bostic was ranked #12 in 2017 by some rating service, likely PFF (I don;t remember and am too lazy to look it up again).

Bowman had a decent season as well against the run from what i can gather, but since I don’t pay PFF, I cant find their direct comparison #s.

Bostic will make 1.5 million on the cap this year. Based on the above, is Bowman 3 million dollars better on first and second down? By all accounts Bowman is NOT capable of playing on 3rd down any longer due to age and injury.

That’s what I am saying.

Valid point. From another angle, does that mean we got Bostic extra cheap and therefore taking an ILB(Bowman as example) for $3M would be more like a BOGO purchase? 2 veteran ILBs for $4.5M doesn't sound like a lot in this market.

[st33lersguy]

So far they have replaced one of the most dynamic LBs in the NFL with rookie safeties and a journeyman backup, that's it. Clearly, they need more help at the position. The LB corp in general is a major weakness and outside of TJ Watt and Vince Williams, there is very little to work with.

[AtlantaDan]

Are you saying that there are only 11 ILB better in the NFL than Jon Bostic? I wonder if fans on this board can name 25 better than Bostic?

How many of the 25 were available to be signed for what the Steelers can afford under the cap?

In his comments yesterday Colbert said paying Bell under the franchise tag rather than structure a multi-year deal has tied up $$$ this season that could otherwise go elsewhere

IMO the best way to address Shazier's absence was through the draft and the Steelers for whatever reason did not trade up or see value after the top choices went in the first round

I have my doubts their plan to address ILB is going to work out but bad alternatives often lead to bad outcomes

[Mojouw]

Valid point. From another angle, does that mean we got Bostic extra cheap and therefore taking an ILB(Bowman as example) for $3M would be more like a BOGO purchase? 2 veteran ILBs for $4.5M doesn't sound like a lot in this market.

But most sources say it isnt that simple.

Bowman made almost $9 million between dead 49ers cash and new cash from the Raiders last season. At 29, he views last year as a clear bounce-back year after serious injuries and reportedly is seeking a mulit-year deal that averages about 4-5 million per season to play a 3 down ILB role.

Not sure how paying someone 2X's what VW gets paid to play Vince Williams 2.0 alongside Vince Williams 1.0 does anything to help the team.

We won't know anything until they start playing some preseason games and we can all see what this looks like. But there is not a magical veteran linebacker sitting on the open market or shaking loose from someone's camp that is going to come in and start making big-time plays for this defense. The playmaking is going to have to come from the current roster somewhere or other. At best, they can add a depth piece.

[Mojouw]

Interesting stuff. It was one of the few readily available places I could find that "graded" both guys.

https://www.detroitlionspodcast.com/zach-trapp/2018/02/20/free-agent-scouting-report-navorro-bowman/
https://www.detroitlionspodcast.com/zach-trapp/2018/02/13/free-agent-scouting-report-jon-bostic/

Oddly enough, they graded Bostic a half grade higher than Bowman.

While I suspect that they both have pros and cons, surprised to see at least one evaluator has Bostic higher.

[Born2Steel]

But most sources say it isnt that simple.

Bowman made almost $9 million between dead 49ers cash and new cash from the Raiders last season. At 29, he views last year as a clear bounce-back year after serious injuries and reportedly is seeking a mulit-year deal that averages about 4-5 million per season to play a 3 down ILB role.

Not sure how paying someone 2X's what VW gets paid to play Vince Williams 2.0 alongside Vince Williams 1.0 does anything to help the team.

We won't know anything until they start playing some preseason games and we can all see what this looks like. But there is not a magical veteran linebacker sitting on the open market or shaking loose from someone's camp that is going to come in and start making big-time plays for this defense. The playmaking is going to have to come from the current roster somewhere or other. At best, they can add a depth piece.

I didn't look anything up about these players. I only referred to the player and money you used in your post. If said player wants a multi year deal of $4-5M per, then that is a different conversation than the original $3M total.

[Lady Steel]

Bryan Deardo needs to learn how to spell, or proofread his articles.

[Mojouw]

I didn't look anything up about these players. I only referred to the player and money you used in your post. If said player wants a multi year deal of $4-5M per, then that is a different conversation than the original $3M total.

Wasn't clear. Bostic makes 1.5 million. Bowman wants 4.5 million. So there is the 3 million difference.

One last time to so that I actually sound like I'm trying to say something useful:

Bostic is 3 years younger than Bowman and in 2017 graded out as a top third or top quarter ILB against the run. I don't have grades for Bowman, but his tackle stats were impressive. If we assume that Bowman is still the superior player for 2018 - my question is can Bowman impact enough on 1st and 2nd down to represent a 3 million dollar upgrade from Bostic?

I do not think that he can. Others may disagree.

[Born2Steel]

Wasn't clear. Bostic makes 1.5 million. Bowman wants 4.5 million. So there is the 3 million difference.

One last time to so that I actually sound like I'm trying to say something useful:

Bostic is 3 years younger than Bowman and in 2017 graded out as a top third or top quarter ILB against the run. I don't have grades for Bowman, but his tackle stats were impressive. If we assume that Bowman is still the superior player for 2018 - my question is can Bowman impact enough on 1st and 2nd down to represent a 3 million dollar upgrade from Bostic?

I do not think that he can. Others may disagree.

Gotcha. My thinking is that is still only $6M to have depth at ILB. And veteran depth at that. At 29 offer a 2 year deal. We currently have VW this season. I like Bostic, maybe even more than VW at this point, but we are still without depth. I guess we have Matthew Thomas that has a shot at making the 53. Matakevich and Fort have not been the answer up to now, maybe 2018 is the year??? I just don't want to get caught without options like last season. Maybe Bowman, maybe not, but we need somebody that knows how to play ILB. Not predicting injury but injury is part of the NFL season. Must have quality depth.

Feel the same at OLB as well. The depth there is scary too.

[Mojouw]

Gotcha. My thinking is that is still only $6M to have depth at ILB. And veteran depth at that. At 29 offer a 2 year deal. We currently have VW this season. I like Bostic, maybe even more than VW at this point, but we are still without depth. I guess we have Matthew Thomas that has a shot at making the 53. Matakevich and Fort have not been the answer up to now, maybe 2018 is the year??? I just don't want to get caught without options like last season. Maybe Bowman, maybe not, but we need somebody that knows how to play ILB. Not predicting injury but injury is part of the NFL season. Must have quality depth.

Feel the same at OLB as well. The depth there is scary too.

Yeah, depth is a problem in the LB corps no matter how you slice it. I guess take stock after a preseason game or two -- kinda like they did with TE last season?

Bowman is kinda like Harrison was last year or Dez Bryant would be this year. A veteran guy who is almost certainly going to want to play a bunch. So if you bring him in for "depth" and then start sliding snaps towards Bostic or one of the 312 hybrid safeties on the roster -- how does Bowman react? I suspect, like any player, not very well. Again, is the security blanket of what you think he can provide on first and second down worth the assumed cap #, roster construction issues (wouldn't that be 3 ILBs that don't play special teams - Bowman, Bostic, and VW?), and potential locker room "drama" (Yeah, I know, kinda ridiculous coming from me!)?

I am not sure how to evaluate all that. I suspect he is simply too expensive when I gotta figure Timmons "comes home" for less than Bowman?

I keep talking myself in circles on this. But I think nothing will happen until they see these guys in at least one game and now with Foster potentially being hurt, cap space might go to the OL!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

No. I am making the limited point that solely against the run, Bostic was ranked #12 in 2017 by some rating service, likely PFF (I don;t remember and am too lazy to look it up again).

Bowman had a decent season as well against the run from what i can gather, but since I don’t pay PFF, I cant find their direct comparison #s.

Bostic will make 1.5 million on the cap this year. Based on the above, is Bowman 3 million dollars better on first and second down? By all accounts Bowman is NOT capable of playing on 3rd down any longer due to age and injury.

That’s what I am saying.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm just not a fan of some stats website comparing 2 different guys playing against different teams in different situations and making a judgement on that.

Bowman might be on the way of being a "has been", but one could argue that Bostic is a "never was". Will be interesting to see how Bostic performs in Camp and preseason. I still think some kind of veteran depth would help at ILB.

[st33lersguy]

Depth is still unacceptably thin at inside and outside linebacker. They don't have enough solid players to fill up a starting lineup. The only solid guys they have are Vince Williams and TJ Watt. A situation like that, a team is practically asking to get torched in the postseason. They likely missed their window to try and improve the most, but at this point they need to find the best guy available at the right price. If they sign someone, it might not be the right guy, but they might get the right guy. Signing no one is a guarantee they don't get the right guy. Some want to prop up Bostic but he's just a journeyman, when they signed him I figured he was just going to be used as a depth piece

[Dwinsgames]

we could talk this to death ( and we are getting close to meeting that objective ) the the bottom line is the Steelers will NOT find Shazier 2.0 ( or anything close ) in the free Agent pool or at waiver wires at cut time ...

1) there is not many LB like Shazier , they do not grow on trees

2) if a team had one they surely wouldn't be cutting him

If you want a guy like him ...you have to draft him and to be honest I am not sure THAT guy was in the last draft , closest thing to it may have been Lenard but even he was not as fast and he was raw so its a projection ..
on top of that even Shazier was not the player we lost when we drafted him ... he grew a lot in terms of being a football player in a few short years

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

we could talk this to death ( and we are getting close to meeting that objective ) the the bottom line is the Steelers will NOT find Shazier 2.0 ( or anything close ) in the free Agent pool or at waiver wires at cut time ...

1) there is not many LB like Shazier , they do not grow on trees

2) if a team had one they surely wouldn't be cutting him

If you want a guy like him ...you have to draft him and to be honest I am not sure THAT guy was in the last draft , closest thing to it may have been Lenard but even he was not as fast and he was raw so its a projection ..
on top of that even Shazier was not the player we lost when we drafted him ... he grew a lot in terms of being a football player in a few short years

True, but I think Roquan Smith is gonna tear it up as a LB in the NFL. I think too that Darius Leonard would have been a upgrade of what is on the Steelers roster (better than Matakevich, Fort and in the long run Bostic and Williams). I see veteran help coming after some camp cuts.

[AtlantaDan]

True, but I think Roquan Smith is gonna tear it up as a LB in the NFL.

Once he signs. Interesting reason for Smith holding out.

The contract impasse between the Bears (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/) and rookie linebacker Roquan Smith (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/football/roquan-smith-PESPTF01003-topic.html) centers on language governing whether Smith’s guaranteed money could be reclaimed by the team if he were to be suspended under the new NFL (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/football/nfl-ORSPT000007-topic.html) rule that prohibits a player from initiating contact with his helmet.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-roquan-smith-contract-holdout-helmets-20180728-story.html

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Once he signs. Interesting reason for Smith holding out.

The contract impasse between the Bears (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/) and rookie linebacker Roquan Smith (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/football/roquan-smith-PESPTF01003-topic.html) centers on language governing whether Smith’s guaranteed money could be reclaimed by the team if he were to be suspended under the new NFL (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/football/nfl-ORSPT000007-topic.html) rule that prohibits a player from initiating contact with his helmet.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-roquan-smith-contract-holdout-helmets-20180728-story.html

IMO, that is a bitch move by the Bears. A clause that you can take away a players "guaranteed money" if he were to have a helmet to helmet hit while making a tackle. :huh:

Its like fining a coffee barista if a customer complains that the coffee they made is too hot.

[hawaiiansteeler]

IMO, that is a bitch move by the Bears. A clause that you can take away a players "guaranteed money" if he were to have a helmet to helmet hit while making a tackle. :huh:

Its like fining a coffee barista if a customer complains that the coffee they made is too hot.

:iagree:

[pczach]

IMO, that is a bitch move by the Bears. A clause that you can take away a players "guaranteed money" if he were to have a helmet to helmet hit while making a tackle. :huh:

Its like fining a coffee barista if a customer complains that the coffee they made is too hot.




To try to get money back for a mistake that could be made in the process of playing the game is beyond ridiculous.

The NFL is coming up with new rules that are hard to play within the game, they are just as hard to officiate, and now they are going to try to take money out of players pockets for things they can't get a handle on themselves?

It is total bullshit.

[AtlantaDan]

To try to get money back for a mistake that could be made in the process of playing the game is beyond ridiculous.

The NFL is coming up with new rules that are hard to play within the game, they are just as hard to officiate, and now they are going to try to take money out of players pockets for things they can't get a handle on themselves?

It is total bullshit.

Agreed - it is going to be a total cluster and games will be decided because of it

A presentation this week by NFL referees to the Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-eagles) on the new helmet rule caused frustration among the players, according to team members, and created further confusion for some about what is expected of them....

During the presentation, which lasted close to an hour according to Bradham, players were shown clips of what are now considered illegal hits -- some of which appeared to them as routine tackles.

Seeking further clarification during the Q&A that followed, the players showed the presenters a video of safety Malcolm Jenkins (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/12426/malcolm-jenkins)' hit on wide receiver Brandin Cooks (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16731/brandin-cooks) during Super Bowl LII that knocked Cooks out of the game. The refs were split on whether it would now be considered an illegal hit.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24227602/philadelphia-eagles-players-express-frustration-new-helmet-rule-presentation

[teegre]

Its like fining a coffee barista if a customer complains that the coffee they made is too hot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KDmwLrKNcc&app=desktop

[Hawkman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KDmwLrKNcc&app=desktop

Dug deep for that one didn’t you. :chuckle:

[st33lersguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KDmwLrKNcc&app=desktop

:lol::lol::lol:

[DesertSteel]

Its like fining a coffee barista if a customer complains that the coffee they made is too hot.
It's like an old man trying to send back soup at a deli.

[AtlantaDan]

we could talk this to death ( and we are getting close to meeting that objective ) the the bottom line is the Steelers will NOT find Shazier 2.0 ( or anything close ) in the free Agent pool or at waiver wires at cut time ...

1) there is not many LB like Shazier , they do not grow on trees

2) if a team had one they surely wouldn't be cutting him

If you want a guy like him ...you have to draft him and to be honest I am not sure THAT guy was in the last draft , closest thing to it may have been Lenard but even he was not as fast and he was raw so its a projection ..
on top of that even Shazier was not the player we lost when we drafted him ... he grew a lot in terms of being a football player in a few short years

Agreed - apparently Plan B is to redesign the defense rather than seek to plug someone else in to a defensive scheme that was built around Shazier

This stat from Football Outsiders Almanac that Peter King cites in his column this morning further confirms how big a hole the Steelers had to fill once Shazier went down

Before Ryan Shazier (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9430/ryan-shazier)‘s injury, the Steelers defense ranked fifth against the pass and eighth against the run. After the Shazier injury, the Steelers were 16th against the pass and dead last against the run.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/30/carson-wentz-philadelphia-eagles-training-camp-fmia/

[hawaiiansteeler]

NaVorro Bowman, LB

2017 team: San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders | Age: 30

Bowman showed he could still play during a 10-game stint with the Raiders to close out the season. But the obstacle with veteran linebackers in free agency is often the same: Unless a team envisions him as a starter, he needs to have special-teams value. Is Bowman willing or able to play on special teams if he's not starting?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24226120/20-best-available-nfl-free-agents-market-2018-training-camp