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hawaiiansteeler
06-25-2018, 11:02 PM
Le'Veon Bell has 'confidence' he will sign deal with Steelers

JOE RUTTER | Monday, June 25, 201

Three weeks before the deadline to sign a long-term contract with the Steelers, running back Le'Veon Bell is optimistic the two sides will come to terms on a deal.

If the Steelers and Bell do not agree to a deal by July 16, he must play the 2018 season under the terms of the $14.55 million franchise tender the team applied to him in March. It almost certainly would be his final season with the Steelers.

“We're a lot closer than we were last year at this time,” Bell said Monday night on NFL Network. “That's what I'm happy about. None of that matters if we don't get it done. Hopefully, we'll try to get something done. That's what I'm looking forward to. I've got confidence we'll get it done.

“I want to do it.”

to read rest of article:

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13801632-74/bell-has-confidence-he-will-sign-long-term-deal-with-steelers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20tribunereviewsteelers%20(Stee lers%20Stories)

steelreserve
06-26-2018, 11:09 AM
I really do not understand how contract "negotiations" can drag on for months at a time like this. If all parties involved really wanted to get it done, it is not too difficult to just set aside a day to get everyone in a room together for as long as it takes to hammer out a deal.

Unless the two sides just have totally incompatible expectations. The longer the process drags out, the more it looks like that is the reason for it, and we're well into our second year of dragging it out.

Lady Steel
06-26-2018, 01:04 PM
Well then just get it done. I'm sick and tired of hearing about it already.

hawaiiansteeler
06-26-2018, 02:09 PM
Well then just get it done. I'm sick and tired of hearing about it already.

yeah no kidding, that pretty much sums up how I feel also.

Craic
06-26-2018, 02:46 PM
I really do not understand how contract "negotiations" can drag on for months at a time like this. If all parties involved really wanted to get it done, it is not too difficult to just set aside a day to get everyone in a room together for as long as it takes to hammer out a deal.

Unless the two sides just have totally incompatible expectations. The longer the process drags out, the more it looks like that is the reason for it, and we're well into our second year of dragging it out.

You're thinking about two parties that have nothing else to do but sit down and negotiate a contract. Bell's agent represents probably dozens of players at least. I wouldn't be surprised if he devotes less than an hour a week to Bell and the Steelers when it comes to contracts. Only in the final stages of negotiation can I see it going higher than that. Of course, once they receive an off, then, in some cases, it goes off to a lawyer to read and review, then highlight and suggest. That would come back to the agent who would do the same thing. Then, it'd go out to Bell who would also do the same thing. Once that's all done, they have to agree on it, which with all their schedules, may take a month or more. Then, the response gets sent to the team, who goes through the same thing. Cap figures are figured, reviews happen, items discussed, and that is around everything else that the principals involved are deal with. Figure that takes two or three week. Then it gets sent back to the player, and it starts all over gain.

Granted, as they get closer and closer, the time period gets shorter between turnaround, except I imagine the Steelers office putting most of it on hold during OTAs so they can focus on other things, including signing the draft picks. On top of that are stalling tactics on both sides which are common contract ploys, legitimate stalls like not being able to contact an agent or player because they are in the midst of a final push signing another player to a team or vacation or family emergency or the player is focused on training and misses calls until late night and they play phone tag or . . .

So, I understand how it can drag on. "Really wanting to get it done" doesn't erase calendars and the vast amount of other work the agents put in with other players or the front office puts in on all sides of the work they do.

Fire Goodell
06-26-2018, 05:17 PM
I don't

BlackAndGold
06-26-2018, 06:00 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

st33lersguy
06-26-2018, 06:24 PM
Yawn, wake me up when a deal actually gets done

ALLD
06-26-2018, 06:27 PM
Deals like this can get done in several hours over a period of weeks at the most if both parties are committed. No doubt the Steelers are committed based on their past behavior. They still need to work within a budget.

I think if they sweetened it up their previous offer just a bit with a token increase somewhere it could get done. If a long term deal is done, maybe the weed juice is finally leaving Bell's brain. My money is him getting tagged which would be a dumb move, but within character.

steelreserve
06-26-2018, 06:40 PM
You're thinking about two parties that have nothing else to do but sit down and negotiate a contract. Bell's agent represents probably dozens of players at least. I wouldn't be surprised if he devotes less than an hour a week to Bell and the Steelers when it comes to contracts. Only in the final stages of negotiation can I see it going higher than that. Of course, once they receive an off, then, in some cases, it goes off to a lawyer to read and review, then highlight and suggest. That would come back to the agent who would do the same thing. Then, it'd go out to Bell who would also do the same thing. Once that's all done, they have to agree on it, which with all their schedules, may take a month or more. Then, the response gets sent to the team, who goes through the same thing. Cap figures are figured, reviews happen, items discussed, and that is around everything else that the principals involved are deal with. Figure that takes two or three week. Then it gets sent back to the player, and it starts all over gain.

Granted, as they get closer and closer, the time period gets shorter between turnaround, except I imagine the Steelers office putting most of it on hold during OTAs so they can focus on other things, including signing the draft picks. On top of that are stalling tactics on both sides which are common contract ploys, legitimate stalls like not being able to contact an agent or player because they are in the midst of a final push signing another player to a team or vacation or family emergency or the player is focused on training and misses calls until late night and they play phone tag or . . .

So, I understand how it can drag on. "Really wanting to get it done" doesn't erase calendars and the vast amount of other work the agents put in with other players or the front office puts in on all sides of the work they do.

One would think the essential part of the process, which is also the most important, would go rather quickly if both sides are serious about it:

1. Communicate your offer to the player/agent, or counteroffer from the player/agent back to the team;

2. Are they happy with the dollar amount, length, guaranteed money? (yes/no);

3. If yes, start going through the details and the legal bullshit; if no, go back to step 1 and repeat.

I mean, you can cycle through that part in 10 minutes a pass, and do it by text message if you want. Then the rest would maybe be more involved work that could take a few days, but probably would go pretty quickly given the incentive on everyone's part to get it finalized. One would imagine both the team and the player have figures in mind that they are comfortable with going in to step 1. So if that part is what's taking forever, it suggests one or both of them is way outside the other's range.

Maybe one side or the other changes their mind over the course of months as the deadline starts looming, but to me that's a pretty tenuous hope to hold on to.

GBMelBlount
06-26-2018, 07:33 PM
More than 1 year at a well above market rate is too risky imo.

I think our offense is so stacked we could make it fine without Bell.

Sorry.

Carolina Steelers
06-26-2018, 08:26 PM
More than 1 year at a well above market rate is too risky imo.

I think our offense is so stacked we could make it fine without Bell.

Sorry.

I hear what you’re saying but our offense is staked because we have Bell. Love AB and what he brings he may touch ball 8-10 times a game, Bell May touch it 25-30 and is a serious blocker for Ben in the passing game. I get it 14.5 million is a lot of money for a RB but I’m hopeful the 2 sides can come to some kind of agreement. I believe Bell had at least 3 more seasons at the level he’s been playing at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

86WARD
06-27-2018, 11:30 AM
More than 1 year at a well above market rate is too risky imo.

I think our offense is so stacked we could make it fine without Bell.

Sorry.

But it’s far from stacked. Without Bell, you have AB and then JuJu. We don’t know that JuJu wasn’t a one hit wonder...not yet at least. Then what is there? James, McDonald, Ridley, Connor?

steelreserve
06-27-2018, 12:49 PM
But it’s far from stacked. Without Bell, you have AB and then JuJu. We don’t know that JuJu wasn’t a one hit wonder...not yet at least. Then what is there? James, McDonald, Ridley, Connor?

You have Ben, and a very good offensive line. Really TE is the only question mark, and it might even be a strength if McDonald can stay healthy. Washington may be great insurance for the WR position. Overall, the offense is in about as good of shape as you can get.

DesertSteel
06-27-2018, 01:01 PM
Who does Tom Brady have? Gronk. And they won it all without him. Ben is top 5 and should be able to make mid rounders look like Pro Bowlers.

BlackAndGold
06-27-2018, 01:26 PM
Ben is not Tom Brady, AKA The Greatest QB Ever. Could you imagine what Brady would do if he had Bell and AB? my god.

Ben has the weapons and we've been constant playoff pretenders.

steelreserve
06-27-2018, 03:48 PM
Ben is not Tom Brady, AKA The Greatest QB Ever. Could you imagine what Brady would do if he had Bell and AB? my god.

I'm guessing ... lose in the Super Bowl?

Not to derail this thread into another Tom Brady discussion - but it's the system, not the man. That is all I am going to say about it, to hopefully avoid doing exactly that.

BlackAndGold
06-27-2018, 05:38 PM
I'm guessing ... lose in the Super Bowl?

Not to derail this thread into another Tom Brady discussion - but it's the system, not the man. That is all I am going to say about it, to hopefully avoid doing exactly that.

https://i.redd.it/ite1su60ht2z.gif

steelreserve
06-27-2018, 06:47 PM
https://i.redd.it/ite1su60ht2z.gif

Well yeah, but how many of those count? One or two?

BlackAndGold
06-28-2018, 09:47 PM
Well yeah, but how many of those count? One or two?

Uh, every one of them....

Hawkman
06-29-2018, 08:11 AM
Uh, every one of them....

Funny that you’re BlackAndGold when you sound like a Brady homer.

steelreserve
06-29-2018, 09:44 AM
Uh, every one of them....

lol, no.

As far as I'm concerned, he's still behind Dan Marino for the title of "best quarterback who never won a Super Bowl." I guess he can keep the losses, though.

AtlantaDan
06-29-2018, 09:53 AM
Ben is not Tom Brady, AKA The Greatest QB Ever. Could you imagine what Brady would do if he had Bell and AB? my god.

No doubt Brady is great (although having been the losing QB in 3 Super Bowls does not compare well to Joe Montana's 4-0 record)

What if he had the 2017 Steelers defense and did not have Belichick as his head coach?

Just as Belichick's accomplishments have to take having Brady into account (which IMO is why Joe Gibbs is an underrated HC for having won three Lombardis with three different journeymen QBs), Brady has not been making tackles or assembling the roster for the other 21 starters.

Without Belichick Brady might be Dan Marino or Dan Fouts - lights out offense but brought down by trash defenses

A QB's accomplishments need to take into account the rest of the team (a legitimate reason Bradshaw is not in the discussion for top 5 QBs of all time)

teegre
06-29-2018, 10:34 AM
When Brady had Randy Moss, they put up record numbers... and lost the SuperBowl. :huh:

SUMMATION:
It appears, that for the ataperiots, it’s better to simply keep the game close, and either steal an interception (Rams) or have the opposing coach brain fart at the absolute worst time (Seahawks, Falcons).



NOTE: Is anyone else having a really difficult time posting recently? For the past two months, every time I try to scroll, the screen flashes and re-centers. When I refresh, I lose what I’ve typed. Frustrating.

BlackAndGold
06-29-2018, 02:24 PM
Funny that you’re BlackAndGold when you sound like a Brady homer.

It's respecting greatness. Just because he kicks our asses all the time doesn't mean you can start discrediting him.

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lol, no.

As far as I'm concerned, he's still behind Dan Marino for the title of "best quarterback who never won a Super Bowl." I guess he can keep the losses, though.

Hahaha, doesn't work like that.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

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No doubt Brady is great (although having been the losing QB in 3 Super Bowls does not compare well to Joe Montana's 4-0 record)

What if he had the 2017 Steelers defense and did not have Belichick as his head coach?

Just as Belichick's accomplishments have to take having Brady into account (which IMO is why Joe Gibbs is an underrated HC for having won three Lombardis with three different journeymen QBs), Brady has not been making tackles or assembling the roster for the other 21 starters.

Without Belichick Brady might be Dan Marino or Dan Fouts - lights out offense but brought down by trash defenses

A QB's accomplishments need to take into account the rest of the team (a legitimate reason Bradshaw is not in the discussion for top 5 QBs of all time)

5-3 Super Bowl record >>>> 4-0 Super Bowl record

Belichick did nothing until Brady came along.

In 2016 the Pats won the Super Bowl with the 25th ranked defense.

DesertSteel
06-29-2018, 02:50 PM
5-3 Super Bowl record >>>> 4-0 Super Bowl record



I agree with everything you said, right up until this. One additional win doesn’t negate three losses.

steelreserve
06-29-2018, 03:35 PM
Hahaha, doesn't work like that.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate




I'm fairly certain they're still using the QB helmet-radio trick, which it doesn't seem like was ever followed up on after it was outed, and would make a pretty big difference.

You know how all those times in the NCAA, they've found a program broke some rule or other and they ended up having to forfeit a championship, along with all the wins from a season(s)? That's pretty much what we're talking about here. You don't get docked first-round draft picks and have players/coaches fined and suspended for cheating if you weren't doing someting blatantly wrong. Multiple times. Over the course of many years. Probably worse than a lot of other organizations that have been busted for cheating and faced far worse consequences, plus it never stopped.

BlackAndGold
06-29-2018, 04:03 PM
I agree with everything you said, right up until this. One additional win doesn’t negate three losses.

He lead his team to 8 Super Bowls. and is over .500 in doing so. I mean the Steelers are one of the greatest franchises in sports, and they've only been to 8 super bowls in their history. 4 of them of course were in the 70's.

This isn't like comparing NBA Finals record between Michael Jordan(6-0) to LeBron James(3-6). Again, Brady has more super bowl wins than losses.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csZusmtNzRw&t=225s

DesertSteel
06-29-2018, 05:26 PM
He lead his team to 8 Super Bowls. and is over .500 in doing so. I mean the Steelers are one of the greatest franchises in sports, and they've only been to 8 super bowls in their history. 4 of them of course were in the 70's.

This isn't like comparing NBA Finals record between Michael Jordan(6-0) to LeBron James(3-6). Again, Brady has more super bowl wins than losses.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csZusmtNzRw&t=225s
I realize that 5+3=8. Further, I never said that Montana was a greater QB than Brady. But... when it comes to W/L records, 4-0 is better than 5-3. And, it really is similar to Jordan v. Lebron.

As for your video, I can't say that I watched it given the title. "The Patriots Never Cheated." If you believe that, I'm not really sure how objective you are. The cheating is a matter of public record. They've been caught red-handed and penalized (lightly). I'm not like the guy here who says Brady has never won a Super Bowl, but c'mon... to deny that they ever cheated???

BlackAndGold
06-29-2018, 06:59 PM
I realize that 5+3=8. Further, I never said that Montana was a greater QB than Brady. But... when it comes to W/L records, 4-0 is better than 5-3. And, it really is similar to Jordan v. Lebron.

As for your video, I can't say that I watched it given the title. "The Patriots Never Cheated." If you believe that, I'm not really sure how objective you are. The cheating is a matter of public record. They've been caught red-handed and penalized (lightly). I'm not like the guy here who says Brady has never won a Super Bowl, but c'mon... to deny that they ever cheated???

4-0 and not better than 5-3. Sorry just because it looks better doesn't make it better.

Just watch the video, I use to be in denial also.

Mojouw
06-29-2018, 07:23 PM
4-0 and not better than 5-3. Sorry just because it looks better doesn't make it better.

Just watch the video, I use to be in denial also.

Video makes a convincing series of arguments. I have always believed that a large part of the Pats success is knowing the rule book and how the game is called better than any other organization.

BlackAndGold
06-29-2018, 07:33 PM
Video makes a convincing series of arguments. I have always believed that a large part of the Pats success is knowing the rule book and how the game is called better than any other organization.

Always said that Belichick is playing chess while the rest of the NFL is playing checkers. (Well besides not playing Malcolm Butler in the super Bowl)

43Hitman
06-29-2018, 07:45 PM
Why burn the tapes? Unfortunately that's a question that will never be answered. They knew every freaking play before we snapped the ball, Hines Ward was quoted as saying they were calling our plays before we finished lining up.

GBMelBlount
06-29-2018, 07:51 PM
Video makes a convincing series of arguments. I have always believed that a large part of the Pats success is knowing the rule book and how the game is called better than any other organization.

So no Boston Cheat Party?

43Hitman
06-29-2018, 07:54 PM
So no Boston Cheat Party?

:lol: :toofunny:

st33lersguy
06-29-2018, 08:06 PM
Really hard to deny the greatness of brady, even If he and the rest of the organization doesn't have an ounce of class. bellichick and his greatness in scheming as well as getting the most out of otherwise average players but there is no question he has been super clutch and has delivered on the biggest stage multiple times. Yeah, they are greatly helped by the fact that the rest of the afc east has been a joke and that the afc has been overall weak (and right now currently a dumpster fire) but Brady still steps up

DesertSteel
06-29-2018, 08:39 PM
4-0 and not better than 5-3. Sorry just because it looks better doesn't make it better.

Just watch the video, I use to be in denial also.
It looks better because it is better. You think 5-3 is better because there’s three runner-ups. Runner up doesn’t mean jack. Just ask the Bills.

I dont need a youtube to know that the Patriots have been penalized for cheating twice. Doesn’t mean they aren’t great. Just like Barry Bonds was great even without the cheating. But there will always be an asterisk*. All cheaters have one.

hawaiiansteeler
06-29-2018, 08:55 PM
But there will always be an asterisk*. All cheaters have one.

https://briancjenkins.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wpid-picsart_1434336209158.jpg

BlackAndGold
06-29-2018, 09:39 PM
It looks better because it is better. You think 5-3 is better because there’s three runner-ups. Runner up doesn’t mean jack. Just ask the Bills.

I dont need a youtube to know that the Patriots have been penalized for cheating twice. Doesn’t mean they aren’t great. Just like Barry Bonds was great even without the cheating. But there will always be an asterisk*. All cheaters have one.

So if someone was 3-0 in the Superbowl, it's still better than 5-3?


Please don't say yes

DesertSteel
06-30-2018, 12:22 PM
So if someone was 3-0 in the Superbowl, it's still better than 5-3?


Please don't say yes

I would probably tilt that one to 5-3. Two extra wins is much greater than just one. One extra win while having three more losses doesn't work for me.

But there are variables that would change my mind about the 3-0 vs. 5-3. For instance, I'd take Joe Gibbs 3-0 over Belichick's 5-3 because the latter had Tom Brady and the former had three different QBs who were little more than journeymen.

It's not all black and white.

hawaiiansteeler
06-30-2018, 02:25 PM
I would probably tilt that one to 5-3. Two extra wins is much greater than just one. One extra win while having three more losses doesn't work for me.

But there are variables that would change my mind about the 3-0 vs. 5-3. For instance, I'd take Joe Gibbs 3-0 over Belichick's 5-3 because the latter had Tom Brady and the former had three different QBs who were little more than journeymen.

It's not all black and white.

nevertheless, 5 > 3

Butch
06-30-2018, 03:09 PM
nevertheless, 5 > 3

Sure when you are on a level playing field, unfortunately the cheats always seem to play with the field tilted in their favor.

Why wasn't belichek suspended for spygate yet Payton was suspended for a year for bountygate? Where was his suspension for deflategate?

fansince'76
06-30-2018, 04:17 PM
Not to derail this thread into another Tom Brady discussion - but it's the system, not the man. That is all I am going to say about it, to hopefully avoid doing exactly that.

Looks like it happened anyway... :coffee:

steelreserve
06-30-2018, 05:46 PM
Looks like it happened anyway... :coffee:

ah nuts.

Well, let's look on the bright side, at least I didn't accidentally introduce socialism.

hawaiiansteeler
06-30-2018, 05:57 PM
ah nuts.

Well, let's look on the bright side, at least I didn't accidentally introduce socialism.

you just did :wink02:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9UigR7XcAADq9K.jpg

Hawkman
06-30-2018, 09:23 PM
It's respecting greatness. Just because he kicks our asses all the time doesn't mean you can start discrediting him.

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Hahaha, doesn't work like that.

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

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5-3 Super Bowl record >>>> 4-0 Super Bowl record

Belichick did nothing until Brady came along.

In 2016 the Pats won the Super Bowl with the 25th ranked defense.

Never discredited him, but this is a “Bell” thread not a Brady “bromance” thread.

DesertSteel
06-30-2018, 11:12 PM
nevertheless, 5 > 3

Nevertheless, ZERO losses > 3 losses.

BlackAndGold
07-01-2018, 12:46 PM
Never discredited him, but this is a “Bell” thread not a Brady “bromance” thread.

I agree but It's the offseason. Nothing to talk about.

Training camp soon.

hawaiiansteeler
07-01-2018, 02:27 PM
Nevertheless, ZERO losses > 3 losses.

so the Cleveland Browns actually know what they're doing then, they've outsmarted all the other teams in the league all these years! :poker:

DesertSteel
07-01-2018, 06:22 PM
so the Cleveland Browns actually know what they're doing then, they've outsmarted all the other teams in the league all these years! :poker:
Ok... keep playing this game until you're right :). Think what you want and I'll do likewise.

lipps83
07-01-2018, 09:28 PM
Nevertheless, ZERO losses > 3 losses.

Those 3 losses were still chances to win, which Montana never even had.

8 chances is much, much greater than 4. Exactly 2x better. I bet if you ask Montana himself, he would have been far happier with a 5-3 record in the Super Bowl than his 4-0.

hawaiiansteeler
07-02-2018, 01:14 AM
Those 3 losses were still chances to win, which Montana never even had.

8 chances is much, much greater than 4. Exactly 2x better. I bet if you ask Montana himself, he would have been far happier with a 5-3 record in the Super Bowl than his 4-0.

would everyone agree that 5-3 > 4-0?

DesertSteel
07-02-2018, 11:13 AM
Those 3 losses were still chances to win, which Montana never even had.

8 chances is much, much greater than 4. Exactly 2x better. I bet if you ask Montana himself, he would have been far happier with a 5-3 record in the Super Bowl than his 4-0.
I wouldn't be so sure. Take on three losses to get one more win. You make it sound like a no brainer, but I wouldn't take it. Most of these guys who are champions hate losing more than they love winning.

DesertSteel
07-02-2018, 11:19 AM
Let's talk about another comparison:

Big Ben 2-1
Elway 2-3

Who has the better Super Bowl record?

teegre
07-02-2018, 11:44 AM
Let's talk about another comparison:

Big Ben 2-1
Elway 2-3

Who has the better Super Bowl record?

I’d easily take 2-3 over 2-1.

That said, those two players are not a good comparison, because Elway won his two on the legs of Terrell Davis.

DesertSteel
07-02-2018, 11:51 AM
I’d easily take 2-3 over 2-1.

That said, those two players are not a good comparison, because Elway won his two on the legs of Terrell Davis.
As a fan or as a player? As a fan, I hate it when the Steelers lose in the Super Bowl. I'd rather for them not to have made it. As a player, it's tough to say. Getting trounced doesn't do much for the legacy. I'd lean towards 2-1.

lipps83
07-02-2018, 12:14 PM
I wouldn't be so sure. Take on three losses to get one more win. You make it sound like a no brainer, but I wouldn't take it. Most of these guys who are champions hate losing more than they love winning.

I agree that they hate losing, but I am pretty sure that most would take a chance to win and come out with a loss in a title game over not even having the chance to compete for a title.

Think about it this way. Brady was 5-3, Montana was 4-0. In comparison, Montana was no better than the Cleveland Browns who had the same amount of chances to win a title game in those 4 years.

Damn right Montana would have played given the chance.

If you aren't willing to compete for a title, why are you playing?

DesertSteel
07-02-2018, 12:38 PM
I agree that they hate losing, but I am pretty sure that most would take a chance to win and come out with a loss in a title game over not even having the chance to compete for a title.

Think about it this way. Brady was 5-3, Montana was 4-0. In comparison, Montana was no better than the Cleveland Browns who had the same amount of chances to win a title game in those 4 years.

Damn right Montana would have played given the chance.

If you aren't willing to compete for a title, why are you playing?
Played given the chance has nothing to do with the conversation. We are talking about after the fact -- when you KNOW that you LOST -- possibly very badly.

So how many losses does it take to make one more win not better? 5-6, 5-8, 5-12? Are all those better than 4-0?

lipps83
07-02-2018, 12:58 PM
Played given the chance has nothing to do with the conversation. We are talking about after the fact -- when you KNOW that you LOST -- possibly very badly.

So how many losses does it take to make one more win not better? 5-6, 5-8, 5-12? Are all those better than 4-0?

I know what the conversation is about, and you are saying that having a pristine record matters. Everyone else is telling you that it doesn't. Being 4-0 is nothing more than a boast. My dad can beat up your dad. You are having trouble seeing that both dads are awesome in their own ways.

Yes, losing sucks but having had the chance to win does mean something to many people. It just doesn't to you, which is cool. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

steelreserve
07-02-2018, 01:08 PM
I agree that they hate losing, but I am pretty sure that most would take a chance to win and come out with a loss in a title game over not even having the chance to compete for a title.

Think about it this way. Brady was 5-3, Montana was 4-0. In comparison, Montana was no better than the Cleveland Browns who had the same amount of chances to win a title game in those 4 years.

Damn right Montana would have played given the chance.

If you aren't willing to compete for a title, why are you playing?


I don't think anyone's saying that people would rather not compete for a title if they lose. It's that losing the championship doesn't make you good.

For that matter, when you win, a lot more goes into your overall "greatness" standing than the fact that you won. Robery Horry win 7 NBA championships with zero losses, but nobody except an idiot would say he's better than Michael Jordan at 6-0.

How much was the individual player responsible for the team's success? That's where I'd say Brady's contribution is greatly, greatly overrated. Never been a more right-place, right-time player in the history of professional sports.

Since someone will inevitably ask - 70% system/coaching, 20% cheating, 10% Brady. That's how I would break it down. Any halfway decent QB would do.

Hawkman
07-02-2018, 02:56 PM
Guess there’s no chance of getting this thread back on topic.:chuckle:

hawaiiansteeler
07-02-2018, 04:35 PM
Guess there’s no chance of getting this thread back on topic.:chuckle:

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/029/970/trainn.jpg

teegre
07-02-2018, 06:00 PM
As a fan or as a player? As a fan, I hate it when the Steelers lose in the Super Bowl. I'd rather for them not to have made it. As a player, it's tough to say. Getting trounced doesn't do much for the legacy. I'd lean towards 2-1.

Psychologically speaking, humans focus an inordinate amount of their attention on “loss.” There was a study done, when people were given two options (I don’t recall the exact parameters, but this is the gist):

a) A week in Hawaii, snorkeling every day, luaus every night... but, you lose $100 from your wallet each morning.

B) A week in Hawaii, no snorkeling, take-out every night... but, you only lose $25 from your wallet each morning.

The vast majority of people people focus on the loss of $700 with little-to-no acknowledgment of the complete & utter difference about the other parts of the vacation. Why? People obsess over “loss”.


Now, specifically about John Elway: he is a different example, because his three losses were blowouts. So, yes, those types of losses do change the feeling about the loss. But, when talking about Tom Brady, none of his losses were blowouts.

Now... are Elway’s three (blowout) losses better than Ben’s one (close) loss? That’s debatable.

st33lersguy
07-02-2018, 06:49 PM
Sorry, but 5 Super Bowls is better than 4. Winning the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal, not not losing the Super Bowl

DesertSteel
07-02-2018, 08:03 PM
Guess there’s no chance of getting this thread back on topic.:chuckle:
Oh I thought every thread on the board was supposed to start off talking about Bell’s contract and then on the second page we were allowed to introduce other subjects. Is there a special sub forum for non-Bell topics?

:smoker:

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and there’s that one other thing... Montana was never caught cheating. Don’t get me wrong, Brady > Montana career. But Montana’s super bowl record > Brady’s. That’s my opinion. You can keep yours.

Craic
07-02-2018, 08:31 PM
Montana was never caught cheating. Don’t get me wrong, Brady > Montana career. But Montana’s super bowl record > Brady’s.

This. Brady's record is tainted. Period. Whether he had anything to do with it or not, it doesn't matter. And here, I'm not even talking about the football deflate issues, although, that adds more credibility to the argument that it is tainted.

Here's the real question. Would he have been as good of a QB had he not had his learning curve severely flattened by the coaches being able to tell him what was coming and where to throw? Who knows? Every NFL QB has the tools to be a decent QB. The question is whether they will adjust between the ears. When you learning curve is severely flattened and you don't have to deal with all the other issues that come along with that (again, see Rick Mirer), life gets much easier in the NFL.

And yes, I specifically chose Rick Mirer because he had both the skillset and the intelligence. However, he had a horrible line that couldn't protect him and not much else to really help him. So, he failed. Horribly. His learning curve steepened considerably, and he began to learn bad habits, which caused everything to go south even faster. Brady had the skillset and intelligence. He also had a coach that through underhanded means, could tell him what defenses were coming and what to expect. The result was an O line that could protect better and a QB that just had to worry about throwing to the hot receiver or to such-and-such space without any other concern. Just count to two and release the ball.

teegre
07-02-2018, 08:38 PM
Oh I thought every thread on the board was supposed to start off talking about Bell’s contract and then on the second page we were allowed to introduce other subjects. Is there a special sub forum for non-Bell topics?

:smoker:

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and there’s that one other thing... Montana was never caught cheating. Don’t get me wrong, Brady > Montana career. But Montana’s super bowl record > Brady’s. That’s my opinion. You can keep yours.

All threads are to become Bell threads.
All Bell threads are to be derailed.

SUMMATION:
Eventually all threads get derailed.



5-3 > 4-0 (IMO)

But, I agree that Brady gets an asterisk for each of the first three because of SpyGate. And, honestly, if not for the “Dan Quinn jinx factor”, he wouldn’t have the last two, either.

Hawkman
07-02-2018, 09:16 PM
All threads are to become Bell threads.
All Bell threads are to be derailed.

SUMMATION:
Eventually all threads get derailed
.


Sort of like the days when every thread turned in to “the O-line sucks” thread.

steelreserve
07-02-2018, 09:53 PM
But, I agree that Brady gets an asterisk for each of the first three because of SpyGate. And, honestly, if not for the “Dan Quinn jinx factor”, he wouldn’t have the last two, either.

You don't think they were still cheating after the first three? It's pretty clear from the past couple that they are still using the helmet radio trick.

Fall behind -> turn on radio -> suddenly everyone's wide open for the rest of the game. It was nice that they lost the last one in spite of obviously having an assist.

fansince'76
07-02-2018, 10:02 PM
You don't think they were still cheating after the first three? It's pretty clear from the past couple that they are still using the helmet radio trick.

Fall behind -> turn on radio -> suddenly everyone's wide open for the rest of the game. It was nice that they lost the last one in spite of obviously having an assist.

Yep. I've never seen convincing evidence that the "gamesmanship" bullshit ever ceased.

st33lersguy
07-02-2018, 10:10 PM
Since this thread has already been derailed by Tom Brady discussion, might as well derail it further with more Brady stuff


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgi2lY62Hto

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-codfuhtuPc0/UCljtlXkBRI/AAAAAAAAAfQ/OtW2zIVDh5I/s1600/Tom+Brady+Waterslide.png

hawaiiansteeler
07-02-2018, 11:07 PM
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5d/65/32/5d65322893c81b7d5255927b25a0e5ea--junk-drawer-football.jpg

teegre
07-03-2018, 09:58 AM
You don't think they were still cheating after the first three? It's pretty clear from the past couple that they are still using the helmet radio trick.

Fall behind -> turn on radio -> suddenly everyone's wide open for the rest of the game. It was nice that they lost the last one in spite of obviously having an assist.

Oh, I still think that Belichick “skirts” the rules, but he no longer out-&-out cheats.

I am 100% confident that he taped the Rams first 15 plays (which the Rams had scripted & practiced prior to the SuperBowl). Kurt Warner has averred that Ty Law jumped the route before the receiver ever broke on the ball (in Kurt’s words): “...as if Ty Law knew that play was coming.”

Currently, there is a litany of miscues that only seem to occur at Gillette Stadium, such as the opposing team’s headsets not working, the time clocks malfunctioning, balls getting deflated, et cetera.

Here’s an analogy:
The 2001-2007 Taperiots were full-fledged alcoholics. They were starting their day with a fifth of Jack, followed by a bottomless glass of Glen (take your pick) throughout the rest of the day. Then, a major “event” occurred at a family function, and Uncle Tapey “gave up” drinking. NOTE: No one knows exactly what happened at this family function, because Grampy Goodell burned the tapes.

Currently, Uncle Tapey no longer embibes... but, every so often, he “accidentally” orders a shot or two. He always blames it on the waitress for bringing him the “wrong” drink... but, that doesn’t stop him from drinking it when it’s in front of him.

SUMMATION:
I would never allow Uncle Tapey to drive a car.

Butch
07-03-2018, 11:10 AM
Oh, I still think that Belichick “skirts” the rules, but he no longer out-&-out cheats.

I am 100% confident that he taped the Rams first 15 plays (which the Rams had scripted & practiced prior to the SuperBowl). Kurt Warner has averred that Ty Law jumped the route before the receiver ever broke on the ball (in Kurt’s words): “...as if Ty Law knew that play was coming.”

Currently, there is a litany of miscues that only seem to occur at Gillette Stadium, such as the opposing team’s headsets not working, the time clocks malfunctioning, balls getting deflated, et cetera.

Here’s an analogy:
The 2001-2007 Taperiots were full-fledged alcoholics. They were starting their day with a fifth of Jack, followed by a bottomless glass of Glen (take your pick) throughout the rest of the day. Then, a major “event” occurred at a family function, and Uncle Tapey “gave up” drinking. NOTE: No one knows exactly what happened at this family function, because Grampy Goodell burned the tapes.

Currently, Uncle Tapey no longer embibes... but, every so often, he “accidentally” orders a shot or two. He always blames it on the waitress for bringing him the “wrong” drink... but, that doesn’t stop him from drinking it when it’s in front of him.

SUMMATION:
I would never allow Uncle Tapey to drive a car.

On a side note: Hmmm maybe a better analogy would be he robbed the national treasury then invested the money. He was later caught and his owner paid the fine, but they got to keep the investments. So now, he is skirting the rules because he is perfectly fine living off the interest he has from his initial investments.

As for the outright cheating the damage was already done, but I also believe that that team is also protected by Grandpa Go to Hell. I mean look at gronk's suspension, or the officials celebrating with the cheatriots and then patting tom terrific on the butt. No penalties in the post season until they get to the Superbowl.

Any word on the Bell negotiations? LOL

SUMMATION:
I wouldn't even let him know where I keep the keys to the car or where I parked the car

pczach
07-03-2018, 04:17 PM
I know this is a Bell thread.....but what thread isn't a Bell thread? Anywho…….I guess I have to get this off my chest.


Tom Brady is a great quarterback...period. We all know that....or at least we should know that by now.

The thing that won't allow me to put him at the top of the mountain is the cheating. There has been a lot of it, and it has been for his entire career. I know all teams supposedly try to do things to get an advantage, but nobody.......and I mean nobody...….has ever cheated in the ways that Bill Belichick has. He has found ways to circumvent the rules on a level that changes the balance of power. I will never think of the Patriots as being a dominant team because they have gotten away with so much. Tom Brady will always be considered a great player, but there is that level of doubt about how much he could have accomplished without the aid of the "Belichick advantages". He is limited physically, and he and his team have been allowed to win games they had no business winning without that help.


I will always consider the Patriots' accomplishments as being tainted. Brady is part of that. He is a great player, but he has also gained the most as the lead dog in the "Culture of Cheating". He is also labeled as the greatest QB of all time based on the accomplishments that I hold in question.


Just my humble opinion.

steelreserve
07-03-2018, 05:40 PM
Oh, I still think that Belichick “skirts” the rules, but he no longer out-&-out cheats.

You don't think so? Did you ever read about the Doug Flutie helmet incident? That's something that:

- Perfectly explains how New England consistently gets so many quick easy passes to guys wide open way down the field;

- Would be very easy to execute and requires one or two guys, not some big conspiracy;

- Never got a lot of press and doesn't sound like it was ever followed up on;

- There is no evidence that they ever stopped using;

- It really looks like they are still using.

That team gets way too many breaks at just the right time, over too many years, in exactly the way that would be explained by that kind of cheating, for it to be a coincidence. Some people explain it with "Brady is just great in the clutch and has a killer instinct," but even the greatest clutch players ever with the best killer instinct ever, don't come up with even close to that many miraculous results without the odds being stacked in their favor. If it smells fishy, it probably is fishy.

vader29
07-04-2018, 04:06 AM
:lol:

1014319519299440645

Lady Steel
07-04-2018, 10:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dIDGS-CRX0

- - - Updated - - -


:lol:

1014319519299440645



:sofunny:

teegre
07-04-2018, 11:05 AM
On a side note: Hmmm maybe a better analogy would be he robbed the national treasury then invested the money. He was later caught and his owner paid the fine, but they got to keep the investments. So now, he is skirting the rules because he is perfectly fine living off the interest he has from his initial investments.

As for the outright cheating the damage was already done, but I also believe that that team is also protected by Grandpa Go to Hell. I mean look at gronk's suspension, or the officials celebrating with the cheatriots and then patting tom terrific on the butt. No penalties in the post season until they get to the Superbowl.

Any word on the Bell negotiations? LOL

SUMMATION:
I wouldn't even let him know where I keep the keys to the car or where I parked the car

:applaudit:
That is a GREAT analogy.

I had actually thought about using a similar analogy, involving Uncle Tapey being a child molester who still got to keep custody of the kids... and then years later Uncle Tapey “accidentally” joined NAMBLA.

But, I figured that I’d save that little gem for @steelreserve :lol:

teegre
07-04-2018, 11:17 AM
You don't think so? Did you ever read about the Doug Flutie helmet incident? That's something that:

- Perfectly explains how New England consistently gets so many quick easy passes to guys wide open way down the field;

- Would be very easy to execute and requires one or two guys, not some big conspiracy;

- Never got a lot of press and doesn't sound like it was ever followed up on;

- There is no evidence that they ever stopped using;

- It really looks like they are still using.

That team gets way too many breaks at just the right time, over too many years, in exactly the way that would be explained by that kind of cheating, for it to be a coincidence. Some people explain it with "Brady is just great in the clutch and has a killer instinct," but even the greatest clutch players ever with the best killer instinct ever, don't come up with even close to that many miraculous results without the odds being stacked in their favor. If it smells fishy, it probably is fishy.

Holy crap!!! Flutie said that Brady was getting the defense called out to him (by Belichick) right up until the snap.

Considering Belichick’s propensity for cheating, I agree: why would he stop at the snap/he probably was talking to Brady during plays.


I also also found a interesting tidbit where former Taperiots players admitted that as they were heading out to the field of play, they were given the opposition’s audibles. Not things that they’d studied during the week... a fresh set of audibles right before kickoff. And, those audibles were always accurate. (Spy-cams in the opposing locker rooms???)

pczach
07-04-2018, 01:05 PM
You don't think so? Did you ever read about the Doug Flutie helmet incident? That's something that:

- Perfectly explains how New England consistently gets so many quick easy passes to guys wide open way down the field;

- Would be very easy to execute and requires one or two guys, not some big conspiracy;

- Never got a lot of press and doesn't sound like it was ever followed up on;

- There is no evidence that they ever stopped using;

- It really looks like they are still using.

That team gets way too many breaks at just the right time, over too many years, in exactly the way that would be explained by that kind of cheating, for it to be a coincidence. Some people explain it with "Brady is just great in the clutch and has a killer instinct," but even the greatest clutch players ever with the best killer instinct ever, don't come up with even close to that many miraculous results without the odds being stacked in their favor. If it smells fishy, it probably is fishy.


Yep

This cheating has gone on to a degree that I think most people don't understand. The type of cheating we are talking about here decides games. It allows them to have a leg up on the competition regardless of how much better the opposing team is. It is a systemic culture of cheating on every level imaginable that they have built their entire legacy on.

steelreserve
07-05-2018, 11:00 AM
Holy crap!!! Flutie said that Brady was getting the defense called out to him (by Belichick) right up until the snap.

Considering Belichick’s propensity for cheating, I agree: why would he stop at the snap/he probably was talking to Brady during plays.


I also also found a interesting tidbit where former Taperiots players admitted that as they were heading out to the field of play, they were given the opposition’s audibles. Not things that they’d studied during the week... a fresh set of audibles right before kickoff. And, those audibles were always accurate. (Spy-cams in the opposing locker rooms???)


Yeah, I mean, even if it stopped at the snap, it's a hell of a lot easier to call exactly the right audible and have exactly the right hot read if the coaches can identify the defense from upstairs, then tell you right where the seams and open spots are going to be.

Hey, guess what, that would be absolutely devastating against zone defenses, and guess what kinds of defenses the Patriots are notorious for shredding?

Best part is that they have built-in deniability ("But the league controls the helmet radios, not the teams!") but all you'd need to do is put a second radio of your own in the helmet on a different frequency.

I have no doubt that if you ripped Tom Brady's helmet off his head during a game in 2017-18 and pulled out the padding, you'd find two radios inside.

If you were doing this, my guess is that as you got experience with it, you wouldn't use it all the time to minimize the chance of getting caught - just when you really need a score. Such as toward the end of important games. Remember anything like that happening in recent seasons? The Patriots' offense being mostly contained all game and then suddenly switching to unstoppable? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

teegre
07-06-2018, 07:50 AM
Yeah, I mean, even if it stopped at the snap, it's a hell of a lot easier to call exactly the right audible and have exactly the right hot read if the coaches can identify the defense from upstairs, then tell you right where the seams and open spots are going to be.

Hey, guess what, that would be absolutely devastating against zone defenses, and guess what kinds of defenses the Patriots are notorious for shredding?

Best part is that they have built-in deniability ("But the league controls the helmet radios, not the teams!") but all you'd need to do is put a second radio of your own in the helmet on a different frequency.

I have no doubt that if you ripped Tom Brady's helmet off his head during a game in 2017-18 and pulled out the padding, you'd find two radios inside.

If you were doing this, my guess is that as you got experience with it, you wouldn't use it all the time to minimize the chance of getting caught - just when you really need a score. Such as toward the end of important games. Remember anything like that happening in recent seasons? The Patriots' offense being mostly contained all game and then suddenly switching to unstoppable? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

A coach seeing the play before the snap has such an advantage over any player, due to sheer vantage point. Add in the coach’s lack of adrenaline, and it gives the Taperiots a significant advantage on any given play.

Factor in some time clock snafus, mess with the opposing team’s headsets, steal a few audibles via spy cams... et cetera... you get 5-3 (but, feels like 1-7).

hawaiiansteeler
07-14-2018, 01:58 AM
Prediction: Steelers, Bell will come to terms on new deal

By BRYAN DEARDO

I believe Le'Veon Bell and the Steelers are going to get a longterm deal done by Monday’s deadline.

Bell has reportedly said that he ideally wants to make $17 million a season, the same amount that Antonio Brown currently makes. He has also said that he won’t play for fewer than $14.5 million a season, the total he will be paid this season if he plays under the franchise tag. While I don’t know if Pittsburgh will pony up on the $14.5 million per season, I believe that they will at least offer Bell a deal that is very close to that number after offering him a deal earlier this offseason that was more lucrative than the $13.3 million per year offer that was on the table this time last year.

to read rest of article:

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/Prediction-Pittsburgh-Steelers-Bell-will-come-to-terms-on-new-deal--119777621/?utm_source=247Sports%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180713_115519_Pittsburgh%20Steelers%2 0Newsletter&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=90-99-08-DA-7C-14-0D-96-C1-BB-13-70-0D-FB-56-2D180713_115519PittsburghSteelersNewsletter

AtlantaDan
07-14-2018, 09:11 AM
Prediction: Steelers, Bell will come to terms on new deal

By BRYAN DEARDO

I believe Le'Veon Bell and the Steelers are going to get a longterm deal done by Monday’s deadline.

Bell has reportedly said that he ideally wants to make $17 million a season, the same amount that Antonio Brown currently makes. He has also said that he won’t play for fewer than $14.5 million a season, the total he will be paid this season if he plays under the franchise tag. While I don’t know if Pittsburgh will pony up on the $14.5 million per season, I believe that they will at least offer Bell a deal that is very close to that number after offering him a deal earlier this offseason that was more lucrative than the $13.3 million per year offer that was on the table this time last year.

to read rest of article:

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/Prediction-Pittsburgh-Steelers-Bell-will-come-to-terms-on-new-deal--119777621/?utm_source=247Sports%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=180713_115519_Pittsburgh%20Steelers%2 0Newsletter&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=90-99-08-DA-7C-14-0D-96-C1-BB-13-70-0D-FB-56-2D180713_115519PittsburghSteelersNewsletter

The author of this article disagrees with Mr. Deardo that the Steelers are going to break the bank to sign a running back on the back end of his best years to a megadeal

What DeMarco Murray’s Early Retirement Means for the NFL’s Current Crop of Star Running Backs

Running back careers have become so short that teams often refuse to invest in the position. Look no further than DeMarco Murray, who, three years after being one of the best players in football, retired on Friday....

Murray is a perfect example of why NFL teams don’t want to hand out big deals to running backs. After being drafted in the third round in 2011, he gave the Cowboys 4,526 rushing yards (4.8 per clip), 1,200 receiving yards, and 29 touchdowns through four seasons. During that stretch he was paid just $3.65 million (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/demarco-murray-7790/cash-earnings/). Then, when it came time to cash in on his rookie-contract production, the Cowboys lowballed him and let him walk. It’s ugly, doing that to a superstar. It is, also, given the league’s economics, the right business decision for the team....

Murray’s career arc—his immediate production and near-immediate decline after signing a real contract—has implications for some of the league’s current best backs. Le’Veon Bell is close to playing on the franchise tag (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/07/09/Why-the-Le-Veon-Bell-contract-negotiation-has-been-so-difficult-to-resolve-for-the-Steelers-NFLPA-Vince-Williams-franchise-tag/stories/201807090009) for a second consecutive year as the Steelers waffle at giving him a long-term deal. Bell led the league in rushing attempts last year, and while he’s just 26, that was also the age Murray was in his All-Pro year....

When it’s time to get paid, a rusher’s best years are often already behind them—and teams know that. For many players, that time is already here, and teams are going to look at what happened to Murray. Then they’ll do the same thing the Cowboys did: Lowball them, or let them walk.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/7/13/17570142/demarco-murray-retirement-means-for-nfl-running-backs

steelreserve
07-14-2018, 10:33 AM
They have like two days to get it done and Bell-Einstein is probably hanging out with some rapper this weekend. Not holding my breath.

DesertSteel
07-14-2018, 12:35 PM
TBH, I'm not sure if I will be happy or mad if Bell signs a deal. Past performance is good, but I can easily see him declining rapidly. If he signs, hopefully no more than 2 years are guaranteed.

hawaiiansteeler
07-14-2018, 03:12 PM
Rapoport: Progress Made In Le’Veon Bell Talks, Unclear If Deal Will Get Done

By Alex Kozora
Posted on July 14, 2018

It’s pretty much the exact same story we’ve heard the past two years but according to NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport, there has been some measure of progress between Le’Veon Bell and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Each side is looking to hammer out a long-term deal, made difficult by a deflated RB market compared to Bell’s top talent.

It’s widely assumed that if a deal isn’t reached by 4 PM Monday, 2018 will be Bell’s final season as a Steeler.

Bell has previously told ESPN he won’t accept an average yearly value below his $14.5 million franchise tag. That’s about the only concrete info we know about his demands. The Steelers reportedly offered a deal worth north of $13 million per year, which his agent accepted but Bell declined.

to read rest of article:

https://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/07/rapoport-progress-made-in-leveon-bell-talks-unclear-if-deal-will-get-done/

pczach
07-14-2018, 06:39 PM
The author of this article disagrees with Mr. Deardo that the Steelers are going to break the bank to sign a running back on the back end of his best years to a megadeal

What DeMarco Murray’s Early Retirement Means for the NFL’s Current Crop of Star Running Backs

Running back careers have become so short that teams often refuse to invest in the position. Look no further than DeMarco Murray, who, three years after being one of the best players in football, retired on Friday....

Murray is a perfect example of why NFL teams don’t want to hand out big deals to running backs. After being drafted in the third round in 2011, he gave the Cowboys 4,526 rushing yards (4.8 per clip), 1,200 receiving yards, and 29 touchdowns through four seasons. During that stretch he was paid just $3.65 million (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/demarco-murray-7790/cash-earnings/). Then, when it came time to cash in on his rookie-contract production, the Cowboys lowballed him and let him walk. It’s ugly, doing that to a superstar. It is, also, given the league’s economics, the right business decision for the team....

Murray’s career arc—his immediate production and near-immediate decline after signing a real contract—has implications for some of the league’s current best backs. Le’Veon Bell is close to playing on the franchise tag (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/07/09/Why-the-Le-Veon-Bell-contract-negotiation-has-been-so-difficult-to-resolve-for-the-Steelers-NFLPA-Vince-Williams-franchise-tag/stories/201807090009) for a second consecutive year as the Steelers waffle at giving him a long-term deal. Bell led the league in rushing attempts last year, and while he’s just 26, that was also the age Murray was in his All-Pro year....

When it’s time to get paid, a rusher’s best years are often already behind them—and teams know that. For many players, that time is already here, and teams are going to look at what happened to Murray. Then they’ll do the same thing the Cowboys did: Lowball them, or let them walk.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/7/13/17570142/demarco-murray-retirement-means-for-nfl-running-backs


One of the big differences between Murray and Bell is that Bell is not a system or style specific player, and he is an elite route runner which translates anywhere be goes...and in any system regardless of blocking schemes.

They are two very different types of players, and Bell is the far better and more versatile player.

I do understand what the author is saying, and it does have some merit....but not much IMO.

hawaiiansteeler
07-14-2018, 09:20 PM
Mike Tomlin On Bell Negotiations: ‘Hopefully We Have Some Exciting News Monday’

By Alex Kozora
Posted on July 14, 2018

The clock is about to strike midnight on the contract talks between Le’Veon Bell and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Earlier today, Ian Rapoport tweeted there’s been progress in the negotiations but that reaching a new deal would go down to the wire.

Mike Tomlin weighed in on the situation, speaking to Bruce Rader for WAVY TV 10, a local Virginia station and hometown for Tomlin where he conducts a yearly youth camp. Rader asked Tomlin if he felt like a deal was going to be achieved.

“Obviously we want to get the deal done,” Tomlin said. “He wants to get the deal done. Everybody has said that. Now it’s just about the negotiations, getting in the room, and doing what it is they need to do. I’m excited and hopeful. Hopefully we have some exciting news Monday.”

to read rest of article:

https://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/07/mike-tomlin-on-bell-negotiations-hopefully-we-have-some-exciting-news-monday/?SportsRoadhouse.com%2FSteelers

steelreserve
07-14-2018, 09:20 PM
Guess there’s no chance of getting this thread back on topic.:chuckle:

Holy shit, it actually happened.

hawaiiansteeler
07-14-2018, 11:44 PM
Las Vegas offers bets on Le’Veon Bell signing an extension or staging a holdout

Behind the Steel Curtain

Gamblers will find a lot more proposition bets available in 2018, novelty bets designed to test your knowledge of sports beyond simply picking which team will win the game. With the start of the regular season still several weeks away, there is not much to wager on in the world of football at the moment, but one innovative sportsbook has still come up with way of generating some interest among Pittsburgh Steelers fans with a range of proposition bets based on Le’Veon Bell and his ongoing contract negotiations. Online sportsbook My Bookie.ag is currently offering a variety of markets on the Steelers’ star running back and are offering a bet about Pittsburgh being forced to use the franchise tag on Bell in 2018, effectively a bet on whether he will sign a long-term extension before the July 16 deadline or play the season under the tag. Bets can be placed on Bell to holdout throughout preseason and also into the regular season.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/5fc0095b-9900-3616-a437-ddf1501d8bed/ss_las-vegas-offers-bets-on.html

AtlantaDan
07-15-2018, 08:55 AM
One of the big differences between Murray and Bell is that Bell is not a system or style specific player, and he is an elite route runner which translates anywhere be goes...and in any system regardless of blocking schemes.

They are two very different types of players, and Bell is the far better and more versatile player.

I do understand what the author is saying, and it does have some merit....but not much IMO.

IMO the article contended that regardless of style RBs have a shorter shelf life than WRs and QBs, which is why they are on average paid less than not only other positions where the player throws or catches the ball but all positions other than kicker or punter

986240446467719175

Bell's receiving skills clearly are superior to almost all backs but when you have as many running attempts as he does that wear and tear is going to have an impact regardless of Bell's versatility, even without taking into account his injury history

Tomlin's comments on "exciting news" may be blowing smoke, but I am concerned this may end up like someone who wants to buy their dream house and overpays, after which the house starts falling apart and the buyer is saddled with crippling debt

steelreserve
07-15-2018, 03:53 PM
Las Vegas offers bets on Le’Veon Bell signing an extension or staging a holdout

Behind the Steel Curtain

Gamblers will find a lot more proposition bets available in 2018, novelty bets designed to test your knowledge of sports beyond simply picking which team will win the game. With the start of the regular season still several weeks away, there is not much to wager on in the world of football at the moment, but one innovative sportsbook has still come up with way of generating some interest among Pittsburgh Steelers fans with a range of proposition bets based on Le’Veon Bell and his ongoing contract negotiations. Online sportsbook My Bookie.ag is currently offering a variety of markets on the Steelers’ star running back and are offering a bet about Pittsburgh being forced to use the franchise tag on Bell in 2018, effectively a bet on whether he will sign a long-term extension before the July 16 deadline or play the season under the tag. Bets can be placed on Bell to holdout throughout preseason and also into the regular season.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/5fc0095b-9900-3616-a437-ddf1501d8bed/ss_las-vegas-offers-bets-on.html

Wait, Bell sitting out the preseason pays off 3-1 and NOT sitting out the preseason is 1-4? I better get my ass to the bookie!



"Let me stage a holdout for no financial gain whatsoever."

-Le'veon Bell-Einstein, 2017 and 2018

Mojouw
07-15-2018, 05:03 PM
IMO the article contended that regardless of style RBs have a shorter shelf life than WRs and QBs, which is why they are on average paid less than not only other positions where the player throws or catches the ball but all positions other than kicker or punter

986240446467719175

Bell's receiving skills clearly are superior to almost all backs but when you have as many running attempts as he does that wear and tear is going to have an impact regardless of Bell's versatility, even without taking into account his injury history

Tomlin's comments on "exciting news" may be blowing smoke, but I am concerned this may end up like someone who wants to buy their dream house and overpays, after which the house starts falling apart and the buyer is saddled with crippling debt

It all depends on the guaranteed cash. Say Bell wants an average annual value of 17 million. The Steelers could do that over say a 4 year deal. But they could then only guarantee 8 million per year of that - in other words current high-end RB money. Put a big chunk of that cash as an upfront bonus. Then if Bell suddenly breaks down or what have you -- there is some protection for the team.

Not to say they should but they could...

hawaiiansteeler
07-15-2018, 05:37 PM
It all depends on the guaranteed cash. Say Bell wants an average annual value of 17 million. The Steelers could do that over say a 4 year deal. But they could then only guarantee 8 million per year of that - in other words current high-end RB money. Put a big chunk of that cash as an upfront bonus. Then if Bell suddenly breaks down or what have you -- there is some protection for the team.

Not to say they should but they could...

the guaranteed money part of the Steelers offer may very well be what's holding Bell up from agreeing to sign the contract.

Mojouw
07-15-2018, 07:34 PM
the guaranteed money part of the Steelers offer may very well be what's holding Bell up from agreeing to sign the contract.

Yeah. No idea. Last I bothered to pay attention, Bell was now focused on average annual value. Once I heard that I realized he is just another idiot who doesn't understand math and the business of the NFL. Meaning negotiating with him will be almost impossible.

mats5000
07-16-2018, 08:58 AM
any news? deadline is coming up.

tube517
07-16-2018, 09:34 AM
any news? deadline is coming up.

Nothing yet. Keep an eye on Twitter or this forum today.

I doubt anything happens but if you want updates, Twitter will be the fastest.

AtlantaDan
07-16-2018, 09:51 AM
any news? deadline is coming up.

IMO if anything happens it will be announced around the 4 pm deadline

If Bell wants the deal on guaranteed $$$ AB received that probably is not happening

If he gets an AB level contract with at least same guaranteed $$$ good for Bell - Steelers likely will have cause to regret it

86WARD
07-16-2018, 02:56 PM
Not looking good...

mats5000
07-16-2018, 02:58 PM
f****ck... cap space here we come. haha.

86WARD
07-16-2018, 03:09 PM
Well...make 2018 count...

tube517
07-16-2018, 03:13 PM
Leave'on Bell

86WARD
07-16-2018, 03:57 PM
Nothing says he can’t sign a long term deal with the Steelers starting in 2019. Bottom line is 2018 he is a Steelers RB. I’ll take it!! Lol.

Butch
07-16-2018, 08:45 PM
Nothing says he can’t sign a long term deal with the Steelers starting in 2019. Bottom line is 2018 he is a Steelers RB. I’ll take it!! Lol.

Yeah I'll take it too since he is playing for his next contract.