New Health Care- Starts This Week

[SteelerEmpire]

Let the insurance companies go broke !! I WANT MY DISCOUNT HEALTH CARE !! Lets see all the goodies I get...
----------------------
Several provisions of the federal health insurance reform law kick in this week. In a nutshell, here's what it means for you:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/columns/jim-gallagher/article_3369e484-953d-514c-b78c-961fc3fddbd6.html

[HometownGal]

While I am not a supporter of this shit assed bill overall, I have to give a :thumbsup: to this:


Health insurance companies have been jacking up rates, and some are blaming reform. The administration of President Barack Obama, meanwhile, is warning insurance companies not to impose excessive charges, and threatening to ban abusive companies from the health insurance purchasing markets to be established in 2014.

I'm not a fan of blood-sucking vampire bats either and that's what these insurance companies are. Can't wait to see how much Security Blue is going to jack up their rates for 2011. Oh joy. :horror:

[steelerdude15]

I wonder whatever happened to all the thirty seven states suing the federal government over this? I haven't heard anything lately, but anyways, I say I'm more against this than I once was. I used to be in the middle neither supporting or not supporting it. It does have it's positives, but it does have it's negatives as well.

[Craic]

IMO, there are a lot more negatives than positives in this bill.

I personally think that insurance rates will skyrocket, and that will be the complete fault of this idiotic bill. Why? It is quite simple.

Insurance companies work on a loss to premium ratio. Currently, that ration usually sits at around 60 percent. That means that on average, across the entire company and its subsidiaries, it will pay out .60 cents on every dollar it brings in for insurance costs. It will pay out another 1 cent per dollar in taxes directly on the premium (tax rate for medical premiums is 1%. Tax rate on property and casualty is 4 %). So, now the company has 40 cents of every dollar left. From there, they have to pay all their employees. That includes literally hundreds of call center workers (I worked in one of these in Louisville KY as a claims adjuster for 1 year, before I took a pastorate). Every center has about 100 plus people in it in the one I worked at. We had a center for every state, since the laws were different in every state, plus, a call center for Medicare supplement insurance. That meant, we had at least 4 or 5 call centers. Easily, 500 workers. Each group of 10 has a manager, each group of 100 has second level adjusters that have a whole lot more authority (call them the HS help desk)- from 4 to 10. Put with that, about 20 techs, 4 overall managers, 1 supermanager over all call centers, Probably 600 plus computers, networking, etc. etc. Take into account salary, FICA, health insurance, workers comp, etc etc., if the average salary is 30,000. The average cost to the company is prob. 36000 per person, plus equipment for 550 or so people. That also doesn't include the 12-14000 in training that is sank into the employee up front just to prepare them for the job.

Now, that is just the call centers themselves. That doesn't include the systems which process the claims, the corporate workers, the salesmen that get the contracts, the lawyers, the directors, the HR department, the PR department, the security department (very important in a comp. like this), the actual building, property and casualty insurance, liability insurance, property tax, etc. etc. ALL of that, is paid out of the remaining 39 cents of every dollar that comes into the company. Don't forget, the actual administrative costs on top of all of this is about 16% of total overhead. Thus, it isn't that far out to assume that overhead is going to be somwhere in teh vicinity of 30-35 cents on the dollar (actually, a very LOW estimation, IMO). That leaves 5-9 cents on the dollar, which is now taxed at 15 to 39 percent, which equates to 2 to 7 cents on the dollar (round about).

That difference can be wiped out with lawsuits, bad turns in the economy, etc. etc.

So, why does your insurance keep going up? Don't look to the health care companies. They try to keep to THE SAME MARGINS. The way they make more money, is by EXPANDING REVENUE BASE. Thus, the increased rates are to cover the increase in contracted amounts to providers, facilities, DME, Their OWN insurance policies, lawsuits, etc. etc. The providers and facilities however, are raising their rates because of massive insurance premiums for malpractice, rising property taxes, etc. etc. etc.

That is why I have always said that the first and biggest shot to the entire system, has to be tort reform. Control the lawsuits and the premiums for facilities and providers plummet (one OBGYN I was speaking to, said his rates were half a million a year. Crazy). There are a lot of other issues, including the federal laws on facilities and doctors treating ER patients regardless of ability to pay-which ends up being paid by everyone else in increased rates to cover.

Now, with all of that said, at least the original version of Obamacare wanted to INCREASE THE MANDATORY PAYOUT to 80 percent of premium. Tell me, how long to you all think insurance companies would have really lasted?


--And to answer one critique before it is asked, "why go into this business if it is that bad?" The answer is that a 2-5 cent margin, per dollar, over say, 500 million isn't bad (10 million to 25 million, provided there are no lawsuit payouts or unseen risks). The place where the company REALLY makes their money has nothing to do with the margin of profit from premiums.

They take that 13,000 a year you are paying, knowing that they are going to have to pay out prob. 12,000 over the course of the year, and REINVEST IT in stocks, banks, interests, etc. etc. The margin they make off THAT is where they really start making their money.

So, don't think of your rates as the cash-cow for insurance companies. The amount you pay in to them really is quite for most companies.

[venom]

http://images.craigslist.org/3nf3ma3l15W25X05R3a9k7d25da1ed0ea1464.jpg

[GBMelBlount]

I have two questions pertaining to what Obama promised in order to get this passed.

1. Will it save people money?

2. Will it improve the quality of our overall health care?

[SteelCityMan786]

I have two questions pertaining to what Obama promised in order to get this passed.

1. Will it save people money?

2. Will it improve the quality of our overall health care?


I think NO will suffice both of your questions.

[GodfatherofSoul]

You guys sound like health insurance rates haven't already been skyrocketing. At least we have some protections in place now (http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/billofright/patient_bill_of_rights.html) like:

* No more booting you off insurance after you get sick.
* No more excluding people with preexisting conditions like having a C-section or asthma.
* Insurance companies have to spend 85% on direct medical care.
* No lifetime coverage caps.

[stlrtruck]

You guys sound like health insurance rates haven't already been skyrocketing. At least we have some protections in place now (http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/billofright/patient_bill_of_rights.html) like:

* No more booting you off insurance after you get sick.
* No more excluding people with preexisting conditions like having a C-section or asthma.
* Insurance companies have to spend 85% on direct medical care.
* No lifetime coverage caps.

While there are some good points to the bill, they don't out weight the problems that are going to be created from it.

The whole, "Pass it to find out what's in it" crap is what's going to end up costing us.

There needs to be medical reform in this country but not from this angle. What our government did to us is BS and shows they lack the knowledge and concern for the constituents that put them in power.

Now would be a good time for them all to retire and not receive another penny from their precious benefits they've voted themselves which is at least 1000 times better than what anyone on this board receives!

[Mach1]

I fill my ass starting to pucker already. KY anyone?

[smokin3000gt]

I fill my ass starting to pucker already. KY anyone?


Is it FREE??

[GodfatherofSoul]

While there are some good points to the bill, they don't out weight the problems that are going to be created from it.

The whole, "Pass it to find out what's in it" crap is what's going to end up costing us.

There needs to be medical reform in this country but not from this angle. What our government did to us is BS and shows they lack the knowledge and concern for the constituents that put them in power.

Now would be a good time for them all to retire and not receive another penny from their precious benefits they've voted themselves which is at least 1000 times better than what anyone on this board receives!

OK, so tell me *exactly* what you don't like about the bill. People seem to talk in generalities.

[BnG_Hevn]

Well, I pay $500 per month for my insurance through work. I wonder if that rate will go up? It is already too high. This will be interesting.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Well, I pay $500 per month for my insurance through work. I wonder if that rate will go up? It is already too high. This will be interesting.

Hasn't it been going up already? So, you're all of a sudden going to start blaming rate hikes on this bill?

[Mach1]

Is it FREE??

Sure, right after you pay the taxes on it.

[X-Terminator]

OK, so tell me *exactly* what you don't like about the bill. People seem to talk in generalities.

The fact that the government is involved in this AT ALL is a huge problem and something I definitely do not like. Any time you get the government involved in anything, they find a way to completely screw it up, and we end up paying more for less service. All you have to do is look at Masscare and the skyrocketing costs and premium increases, after they had promised nearly all of the same things that Obamacare is promising. I've said it once, and I'll say it again - I do NOT want the government in charge of my health care decisions.

How about all of the new taxes and fees that are going to be part of this bill? I don't know about you, but I'm already taxed too much as it is.

The biggest one for me is the penalty for not carrying insurance. 8% of their salary or $3500, whichever is greater, and if you refuse to pay, you go to jail, which basically forces them to buy insurance whether they can afford it or not, or whether they need it or not. That is complete bullshit. Who do you think that's going to hurt more than anyone? I'll give you a hint - it won't be "the rich."

[GodfatherofSoul]

The fact that the government is involved in this AT ALL is a huge problem and something I definitely do not like. Any time you get the government involved in anything, they find a way to completely screw it up, and we end up paying more for less service. All you have to do is look at Masscare and the skyrocketing costs and premium increases, after they had promised nearly all of the same things that Obamacare is promising. I've said it once, and I'll say it again - I do NOT want the government in charge of my health care decisions.

How about all of the new taxes and fees that are going to be part of this bill? I don't know about you, but I'm already taxed too much as it is.

The biggest one for me is the penalty for not carrying insurance. 8% of their salary or $3500, whichever is greater, and if you refuse to pay, you go to jail, which basically forces them to buy insurance whether they can afford it or not, or whether they need it or not. That is complete bullshit. Who do you think that's going to hurt more than anyone? I'll give you a hint - it won't be "the rich."

The two highest rated and cheapest health care systems in this country are Medicare and the VA system. Both coincidentally work with people needing some of the most severe care. All the other Western nations with government systems have cheaper, better care than we have here in the States. We're rated around #37 as I recall and we pay about 2X as much as other Western countries.

For profit health care is by nature flawed.

And, I'd love it if someone told me what they don't like about this bill besides "the government sucks" or "it'll be more expensive".

[X-Terminator]

The two highest rated and cheapest health care systems in this country are Medicare and the VA system. Both coincidentally work with people needing some of the most severe care. All the other Western nations with government systems have cheaper, better care than we have here in the States. We're rated around #37 as I recall and we pay about 2X as much as other Western countries.

For profit health care is by nature flawed.

And, I'd love it if someone told me what they don't like about this bill besides "the government sucks" or "it'll be more expensive".

Don't even get me started on Medicare. Did you know that there is a 2-year waiting period for people to get on Medicare if they qualify for Social Security benefits? You want to tell me how that's good for someone who had to retire, and thus lost their employer-paid insurance, because of a severe medical problem that requires constant care? There have been many, many people who have died waiting for Medicare benefits - benefits that, I might add, they paid into all of their lives. And you want MORE of that? No thank you.

And I've heard many horror stories about care in VA hospitals, but I'll allow our military brethren here discuss that further.

If we really want to reduce the cost of health care premiums, they should allow insurance companies to sell policies across state lines with strict guidelines that they must follow for each state, and with some of the protections that are part of the current health care bill. Government would be reduced to enforcing these guidelines, removes mandates for people to purchase insurance and still allows the market to set the price. Similar to what we already do with car insurance, life insurance, etc.

[Craic]

You guys sound like health insurance rates haven't already been skyrocketing. At least we have some protections in place now (http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/billofright/patient_bill_of_rights.html) like:

* No more booting you off insurance after you get sick.
* No more excluding people with preexisting conditions like having a C-section or asthma.
* Insurance companies have to spend 85% on direct medical care.
* No lifetime coverage caps.

Wow, I don't mean to be ugly, but, you really can't see the forest for the trees here can you? No exclusions mean massive more payouts by the insurance company. 85% on medical care (see my previous post), means the companies CANNOT BE VIABLE, thus, they will have one of two options- either fail, or cut so deeply, that claims will take months upon months to pay out, and wait times for customers will be measured in hours because insurance companies cannot afford to keep the workers.

BTW, the extended wait on paying claims, means the hospitals and doctors WILL BE COMING AFTER YOU, and then telling you to go get it from your insurance company. If you don't pay, they simply turn it over to collections and screw up your credit for years on end.

Yeah, those are REAL PROTECTIONS alright. Sorry, this just reminds me of villagers that work all month to build a building. One morning, they find out that the roof isn't quite situated right, so they start taking part of the roof off. About that time, the king comes long. He decides he is going to show how magnanimous he can be, and sends his soldiers to destroy the entire building to "help the villagers" As the villagers are shouting "No, STop" The king just assumes their rejections of help are due to their love of him, not the fact that he has completely screwed them over and has no idea what is really happening in the real world. Of course, the king goes off feeling good about himself, and the villagers have to start from scratch again.

I'm sorry, but I really don't want that kind of "help".

[Mach1]

The two highest rated and cheapest health care systems in this country are Medicare and the VA system. Both coincidentally work with people needing some of the most severe care. All the other Western nations with government systems have cheaper, better care than we have here in the States. We're rated around #37 as I recall and we pay about 2X as much as other Western countries.

For profit health care is by nature flawed.

And, I'd love it if someone told me what they don't like about this bill besides "the government sucks" or "it'll be more expensive".

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

You ever been to a VA hospital and been treated there? It's not always top notch like private care.

[Craic]

The two highest rated and cheapest health care systems in this country are Medicare and the VA system. Both coincidentally work with people needing some of the most severe care. All the other Western nations with government systems have cheaper, better care than we have here in the States. We're rated around #37 as I recall and we pay about 2X as much as other Western countries.

For profit health care is by nature flawed.

And, I'd love it if someone told me what they don't like about this bill besides "the government sucks" or "it'll be more expensive".

Highest rated? Sorry, that is a crock. I have been involved in both. As said before, I worked in an insurance company for a year, doing medicare supplement policies. It is one of the most horrid systems I have seen. Do you know how many people are denied coverage? Do you understand that medicare is only to provide LIFE ESSENTIAL services? That means that operation to relieve severe pain, isn't covered, because it isn't "LIFE ESSENTIAL".

And the VA system? You HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME.

Do you know WHY we are rated number 37? Because all of those studies HEAVILY WEIGH TOWARDS UNIVERSAL CARE. Thus, it is a circular argument. universal health care systems are considered better because....they are universal health systems. NOT because of the actual QUALITY OF MEDICINE.

Last, "It will be more expensive" is all that really matters. If the goal is to provide coverage to more people, how in the WORLD does jacking up prices even HIGHER achieve that goal?

[GodfatherofSoul]

Highest rated? Sorry, that is a crock. I have been involved in both. As said before, I worked in an insurance company for a year, doing medicare supplement policies. It is one of the most horrid systems I have seen. Do you know how many people are denied coverage? Do you understand that medicare is only to provide LIFE ESSENTIAL services? That means that operation to relieve severe pain, isn't covered, because it isn't "LIFE ESSENTIAL".

And the VA system? You HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME.

Do you know WHY we are rated number 37? Because all of those studies HEAVILY WEIGH TOWARDS UNIVERSAL CARE. Thus, it is a circular argument. universal health care systems are considered better because....they are universal health systems. NOT because of the actual QUALITY OF MEDICINE.

Last, "It will be more expensive" is all that really matters. If the goal is to provide coverage to more people, how in the WORLD does jacking up prices even HIGHER achieve that goal?

Not a crock. This was well and widely reported during the two big health care debates. Costs less and people in these programs rate them the highest.

I see that you doubt the #37 rating. Do you know that we have one of the worst infant mortality rates of industrial nations? I guess that's because of liberal, socialism biased studies too?

[st33lersguy]

The best healthcare in the world will severely regress this week. Now comes a healthcare system a majority of americans don't want

[SCSTILLER]

Didn't Obama say in a campaign intervie that universal healthcare will lead to socialized, government run healthcare? I remember that for some reason. I can see this as a true statement if he did make it because this will bankrupt the insurance industries and overload our hospitals. I for one don't want the government in charge of healthcare because everything they take charge of is mismanaged and run poorly.

[st33lersguy]

Didn't Obama say in a campaign intervie that universal healthcare will lead to socialized, government run healthcare? I remember that for some reason. I can see this as a true statement if he did make it because this will bankrupt the insurance industries and overload our hospitals. I for one don't want the government in charge of healthcare because everything they take charge of is mismanaged and run poorly.

I totally agree

[fansince'76]

How many Senators and Representatives who supported the Healthcare Reform Bill and are up for reelection in about six weeks are even mentioning this wonderful piece of legislation they helped pass in their campaigns, never mind playing it up? The silence is deafening and it speaks volumes.

[GBMelBlount]

How many Senators and Representatives who supported the Healthcare Reform Bill and are up for reelection in about six weeks are even mentioning this wonderful piece of legislation they helped pass in their campaigns, never mind playing it up? The silence is deafening and it speaks volumes.

Yep, call me a cynic but I liken this to the promises that were made when social security was passed.

The government made numerous promises that were broken due to their fiscal irresponsibility and cost over runs.....

so when a government that is over ten trillion in debt promises you something will save you money, how can you not be skeptical?

With free markets there is an ebb and flow, expansion and recession as a natural response to changing market conditions.

The government does not operate in this manner...they do not need to make the numbers work, live within their means, or make cutbacks, as they can simply force people to give more of their hard money to pay when they refuse to live within their means as they expect their constituents to do.

[SteelerEmpire]

I won't believe it will or won't do this or that, or cost this or cost that until "after" its implemented... there are just too many politicians saying its this or that... its all about THEM getting elected/re-elected... They WILL lie to us and deceive us for their own personal gain (to get elected).

[GodfatherofSoul]

How many Senators and Representatives who supported the Healthcare Reform Bill and are up for reelection in about six weeks are even mentioning this wonderful piece of legislation they helped pass in their campaigns, never mind playing it up? The silence is deafening and it speaks volumes.

Hmmm...off the top of my head I'd say all of Representatives are up for reelection.

[fansince'76]

Hmmm...off the top of my head I'd say all of Representatives are up for reelection.

True, and I probably could've worded it a bit better, but the question remains - how many of them that supported the Healthcare Reform legislation that was signed last Spring are trumpeting the fact that they supported it now? You'd think a congressional supporter of such a landmark piece of legislation would play up their support of it in their reelection campaign.

[GBMelBlount]

I won't believe it will or won't do this or that, or cost this or cost that until "after" its implemented...

I'm sure you can understand why so many people are skeptical of the governments promises that this would save money and increase quality, in order to get it passed.

We can really only go by the history of our government on prior promises of this magnitude such as social security.

Americans have been lied to and mislead countless times by the government.

If a private corporation lied and deceived in the manner our government has about social security, there would be hell to pay.

[BnG_Hevn]

I'm sure you can understand why so many people are skeptical of the governments promises that this would save money and increase quality, in order to get it passed.

We can really only go by the history of our government on prior promises of this magnitude such as social security.

Americans have been lied to and mislead countless times by the government.

If a private corporation lied and deceived in the manner our government has about social security, there would be hell to pay.

Isn't AIG still handing out millions in bonuses? I guess we are paying a "hell" of a lot of money so there is "hell to pay".

I don't trust anything about the government. The government is an entity made up of a bunch of people who are either A) just doing their job and living within their means or B) people who's only goal is to get as rich as possible as quick as possible.

The sad part is that the category B people are the ones in charge of financial decisions.

Either way, as long as the government has any say in our daily lives, we're screwed, be they dems, reps or independents.

[The WH]

Do you know WHY we are rated number 37? Because all of those studies HEAVILY WEIGH TOWARDS UNIVERSAL CARE. Thus, it is a circular argument. universal health care systems are considered better because....they are universal health systems. NOT because of the actual QUALITY OF MEDICINE.

I strongly disagree. I live in a country that has a successful, top notch, social health care system. Have you ever lived in a country (other than the US as it now seems lol) with socialized medicine?

[GBMelBlount]

I strongly disagree. I live in a country that has a successful, top notch, social health care system. Have you ever lived in a country (other than the US as it now seems lol) with socialized medicine?

So tell us about the Swedish Health Care...

....and one thing that is not factored into these studies is that the United States has by far the fattest and laziest population on the planet..

Obese people tend to have far more health problems.

Period. This is not even arguable.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

[Mach1]

So where's my FREE obaaaamacare?
:doh: Thats right, I have to pay taxes on it first.

[GBMelBlount]

So where's my FREE obaaaamacare?
:doh: Thats right, I have to pay taxes on it first.

The nice thing about being a liberal politician is that you can tell 60% of people not to worry because "other people" will be paying for their health insurance.