Paul Zeise: The Steelers' draft still makes very little sense

[hawaiiansteeler]

Paul Zeise: The Steelers' draft still makes very little sense

PAUL ZEISE
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
MAY 4, 2018

The Steelers draft picks made very little sense, for the most part, as they were happening in real time. Now, a week later, with time to reflect and hear Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin’s rationale, they make even less sense.

to read rest of article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/zeise-is-right/2018/05/04/steelers-nfl-draft-terrell-edmunds-marcus-allen-mason-rudolph/stories/201805040130

[BlackAndGold]

"The Steelers’ biggest need going into the draft was at inside linebacker, and the two they seemed to covet were Boise State’s Leighton Vander Esch and Alabama’s Rashaan Evans. Vander Esch went off the board to the Cowboys at pick No. 19, which was nine spots ahead of the Steelers. At that point, the Steelers needed to try to trade up to make sure they could secure Evans, even if they had to overpay to make the pick".

Um yeah, that's not smart like at all. Evans is talented but he has questions marks. Injuries/one year starter. Overpaying is always dumb.


"That would have made sense, as opposed to staying put and reaching for safety Terrell Edmunds from Virginia Tech. Edmunds may help in their dime package and he has some versatility, but the Steelers could have traded down, grabbed an extra pick or two, and still got him in the second round."

*face palm* Another team could have easily drafted Edmunds. Stop all this talk of them reaching, it's complete BS and now has been reported that some teams viewed Edmunds as a first round talent.


The Steelers traded Martavis Bryant, so they needed a receiver — but they drafted James Washington, who isn’t exactly a burner. He ran a 4.54 at the combine, which suggests he is probably more of a possession receiver than a big-play, vertical receiver like Bryant, which is what the Steelers really need. They need someone to take the top off of defenses. Though they still have Darrius Heyward-Bey for that role, it would have been nice for them to get a younger set of legs to fill it, as well.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/560b24a79e7b911c866b89c1a17e995e/tenor.gif?itemid=3979591

[Dwinsgames]

at some point you have to throw your arms in the air and say until they play they are still just prospects and everything is 100% guess work ...

let them play and then see how it works out my guess is there is a reason ( maybe hundreds of them ) that PAUL ZEISE , you , myself and countless amounts of bloggers are not getting paid to work in the NFL

yes I am opinionated on prospect too but have learned there are reasons I am not being paid for those opinions by some NFL team

[GBMelBlount]

I liked our draft. Solid B.

We should be better on offense and defense heading into the playoffs, if not right away.

From a talent standpoint only, I think Bryant may have been a big difference maker this year. Still, I cannot fault them for getting rid of him.

[Shoes]

I liked our draft. Solid B.

We should be better on offense and defense heading into the playoffs, if not right away.

From a talent standpoint only, I think Bryant may have been a big difference maker this year. Still, I cannot fault them for getting rid of him.

So do I. A- to B+

[Mojouw]

Anyone else wonder why they even pay these guys to write this crap? Every poster on this board could pull something more insightful together after a 6 pack.

If you want to trash the Steelers picks, you could offer actual reasons. Like Edmunds is another toolsy safety that may have significant trouble putting people on the ground in the open field. Or whether or not he, Burnett, and Davis all basically play the same position.

But I suspect that Ziese is simply going by whatever was said on TV during the draft and some random "water-cooler" discussion with the rest of the expert football minds that the PG employs.

I can just picture him now, sleeping in the recliner for the better part of the draft and telling his family he can' t do anything because he is doing research for work.

"I'd really love to wash the car and walk the dog, but I can't. I have to watch this NFL draft for work. Gotta get paid the big bucks! Gotta stay informed!"

And with all that "research" all he can come up with is to trade next years high round picks to take the 4th rated ILB on the board. Think about that! This dude's advice is to trade a 2018 first, third, and fifth, and likely a 3 or 4 in 2019 to take the 4th best player at a position group.

However, when the Steelers do the same thing (arguably) with Rudolph 2 rounds later at NO added cost, it is stupid.

[steelreserve]

The best thing about it was that we may have found a future QB for cheap. As I said at the time, Washington was just using a high pick to fill a self-imposed gap in the roster, so I can't be too crazy about it.

It's hard to know what to make of the draft overall because we don't know whether their "safety" picks were straight-up picks for the traditional S position, or part of some other plan to remake the defensive scheme around playmakers. That could save the day; if they were just straight-up safety picks, it would be stupid as hell (since we also just signed someone to fill another self-imposed gap in the roster at the same position).

I really hope the ILB situation does not get the way our DT situation was, where we were like

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/941/539/30c.png

Then again, after the entire defense suffered for years because of that as we passed up prospect after prospect, we turned around and did the same thing with DB. So maybe we're just going through each position in turn, like a dog going in circles before it decides to finally lay down.

[Cyphon25]

An actual draft grade always has to wait for a few years down the road when we actually get to see these guys play and how they fit.

As we sit here today however, the value they got in this draft doesn't look great. I have graded it and would still grade it right at around a D

I don't mind the Edmunds pick and wouldn't call it a reach but I do believe there was more value in trading back. There is a chance (not guarantee mind you) you can still get Edmunds and if not there is still Bates and Reid who we know they had quite a bit of interest in.

I am sure Washington is a fine pick but again, round 2 for me is too early for a number 3 receiver. Number 1 or number 2, sure, but number 3 I would have waited. Even moreso as the Steelers because they have been pretty good in their evaluations.

Rudolph was great value but very high risk as far as long term. If Ben plays for 4 more years Rudolphs contract is up and he probably hasn't started any games. That being said, I don't trust Ben to keep playing that long so I am still okay with the pick and of the first 3 it easily has the best value.

Chuks gets an F- from me and there isn't a single article or explanation I have seen that even slightly moves the needle on this grade for me. He is a flat out Munchak project at a position we are fairly solid at and you can get similar players as UDFA's. Again, some of this goes back to my trust in the Steelers to produce good OL. Terrible terrible pick as far as current value.

After the 3rd round I really don't care much because it is all mostly dart throws at that point. Well, all of the draft is a dart throw but the first 3 rounds you really need to be maximizing value and the Steelers failed miserably so far as we sit here today.

Of course if 2 of these guys become All-Pros in 3 years none of us will care.

[hawaiiansteeler]

The Steelers traded Martavis Bryant, so they needed a receiver — but they drafted James Washington, who isn’t exactly a burner. He ran a 4.54 at the combine, which suggests he is probably more of a possession receiver than a big-play, vertical receiver like Bryant, which is what the Steelers really need. They need someone to take the top off of defenses.


yeah Washington never gets open deep :jerkit:

[GBMelBlount]

An actual draft grade always has to wait for a few years down the road when we actually get to see these guys play and how they fit.

As we sit here today however, the value they got in this draft doesn't look great. I have graded it and would still grade it right at around a D

I don't mind the Edmunds pick and wouldn't call it a reach but I do believe there was more value in trading back. There is a chance (not guarantee mind you) you can still get Edmunds and if not there is still Bates and Reid who we know they had quite a bit of interest in.

I am sure Washington is a fine pick but again, round 2 for me is too early for a number 3 receiver. Number 1 or number 2, sure, but number 3 I would have waited. Even moreso as the Steelers because they have been pretty good in their evaluations.

Rudolph was great value but very high risk as far as long term. If Ben plays for 4 more years Rudolphs contract is up and he probably hasn't started any games. That being said, I don't trust Ben to keep playing that long so I am still okay with the pick and of the first 3 it easily has the best value.

Chuks gets an F- from me and there isn't a single article or explanation I have seen that even slightly moves the needle on this grade for me. He is a flat out Munchak project at a position we are fairly solid at and you can get similar players as UDFA's. Again, some of this goes back to my trust in the Steelers to produce good OL. Terrible terrible pick as far as current value.

After the 3rd round I really don't care much because it is all mostly dart throws at that point. Well, all of the draft is a dart throw but the first 3 rounds you really need to be maximizing value and the Steelers failed miserably so far as we sit here today.

Of course if 2 of these guys become All-Pros in 3 years none of us will care.

Washington may be my favorite pick.

I think we HAVE to keep Ben loaded to the gills if we want to win more championships.

Bell and 3 top shelf receivers will be a nightmare for defenses.

While I wanted us to keep Bryant, he was a cancer and he was very unpredictable.

Brown has maybe two more years at an elite level?

These guys will be locked up the next several years and Rudolph could have a very bright future if he takes over the reigns with this corps of receivers.

Short and long term I love this pick.

[tube517]

Screw the Post Gazette. Now you have to log in to read their lame ass website. And if you have an ad blocker, forget it. (I know that is the trend now but I don't like ads)

Then, their writers are old grumpy farts who just repeat what they see on Twitter and never are ahead of the game in terms of real reporting. Always late with Tweets that we knew last week.

[Cyphon25]

Washington may be my favorite pick.

I think we HAVE to keep Ben loaded to the gills if we want to win more championships.

Bell and 3 top shelf receivers will be a nightmare for defenses.

While I wanted us to keep Bryant, he was a cancer and he was very unpredictable.

Brown has maybe two more years at an elite level?

These guys will be locked up the next several years and Rudolph could have a very bright future if he takes over the reigns with this corps of receivers.

Short and long term I love this pick.

I don't disagree we need to keep Ben loaded, but I think there were other solid choices in later rounds for better value. 2nd round (to me) is too high to take a guaranteed number 3 receiver. Particularly if we count Le'veon Bell as a target which would essentially bump Washington to a number 4.

That is why I have been trying to really drive home that I am seperating value and player evaluation. It could have been Chark, Washington, Ridley, Sutton, or pick any receiver and my opinion wouldn't change. If you go in knowing they are no more than a number 3 and likely a number 4 I think you wait to get a guy later in the draft.

[AtlantaDan]

Consider the source - this hot take on how Zeise would run the Steelers from last summer during training camp

Paul Zeise: The Steelers need to sign Colin Kaepernick immediately

There is way too much on the line for the Steelers to gamble with their backup quarterback position. ...

The Steelers need to sign Kaepernick now because Dobbs isn’t close to being ready as a starter and Jones is still injured and may not be ready for another few weeks. It makes no sense to wait any longer because Kaepernick needs as much time as possible to come in and learn the offense.

It is a team and a system that a veteran quarterback like Kaepernick should thrive on. The Steelers don’t have the luxury of waiting any longer, they need to strengthen their backup situation so all of that talent isn’t an injury to Roethlisberger away from missing the playoffs.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/zeise-is-right/2017/08/21/colin-kaepernick-steelers-sign-backup-quarterback-josh-dobbs-landry-jones-ben-roethlisberger/stories/201708210119

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't disagree we need to keep Ben loaded, but I think there were other solid choices in later rounds for better value. 2nd round (to me) is too high to take a guaranteed number 3 receiver. Particularly if we count Le'veon Bell as a target which would essentially bump Washington to a number 4.

That is why I have been trying to really drive home that I am seperating value and player evaluation. It could have been Chark, Washington, Ridley, Sutton, or pick any receiver and my opinion wouldn't change. If you go in knowing they are no more than a number 3 and likely a number 4 I think you wait to get a guy later in the draft.

so you wouldn't agree with the Steelers selecting JuJu in the 2nd round last season then?

[Cyphon25]

so you wouldn't agree with the Steelers selecting JuJu in the 2nd round round last season then?

At the time I didn't like it because I didn't view it as a position of need. I liked AB, Bryant, an Rogers as the 3. This time around it is more about value. I view it as a position of need but think the round was early for a number 3 or 4 guy. If we retroactively apply the value scale JuJu was a good pick because he was almost immediately a number 2 and still is.

[steelreserve]

so you wouldn't agree with the Steelers selecting JuJu in the 2nd round last season then?

Aside from how great it is putting words into other people's mouths, it's an apples-and-oranges situation. Last offseason we had AB and question marks. I wouldn't count a drugged-out rusty Bryant coming fresh off a year out of the league as anything more than a shaky #2 at BEST, and that's pretty much how the season played out. Behind Bryant was an unreliable Coates, and garbage. So that was not a bad pick.

Coming into this year, we had an All-Pro #1, a solid #2, and Bryant who if not a #2 candidate, was showing flashes of being an explosive playmaker again; most teams would be VERY happy if that was their third-best guy. So what do we do, we trade him and to get a 1:1 replacement, we spend a higher pick than we got for the player. Lots, LOTS of ways we could've handled that better, including but not limited to:

- Keep Bryant and worry about replacing him next year

- Keep Bryant and draft a "maybe" WR in the mid/late rounds this year

- Trade Bryant for an existing NFL player at another position and use the #2 pick to draft Washington

- Trade Bryant for a WR straight-up

- Trade Bryant for the same pick, and draft a WR with that pick or lower

Before anyone starts with the "But we weren't going to re-sign Bryant, so he's gone next year and we needed to do something NOW," get that shit out of here because that's the exact same situation as Bell, but the only reaction I see is "Well we have him for one more year, we can draft a RB next time." Then defending the exact opposite move at WR just ... because, I guess?

[st33lersguy]

The problem I have with the draft is if TJ Watt or Vince Williams go down with injury, who plays at LB? ILB depth and OLB depth are paper thin and yet OLB was ignored and at ILB they only got guys who could play dime inside linebacker in passing situations. Whenever you leave big needs unaddressed, it always comes back to work against you

[fansince'76]

Screw the Post Gazette. Now you have to log in to read their lame ass website. And if you have an ad blocker, forget it. (I know that is the trend now but I don't like ads)

Then, their writers are old grumpy farts who just repeat what they see on Twitter and never are ahead of the game in terms of real reporting. Always late with Tweets that we knew last week.

https://i.imgflip.com/19lkzm.jpg

:chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Edmunds displays his versatility

Terrell Edmunds was excited to take the field for the first day of rookie minicamp.

http://www.steelers.com/videos/videos/Edmunds-displays-his-versatility/af24ec9e-0608-412c-8d80-ffb0cb06aa97

[bendsteel]

An actual draft grade always has to wait for a few years down the road when we actually get to see these guys play and how they fit.

As we sit here today however, the value they got in this draft doesn't look great. I have graded it and would still grade it right at around a D

I don't mind the Edmunds pick and wouldn't call it a reach but I do believe there was more value in trading back. There is a chance (not guarantee mind you) you can still get Edmunds and if not there is still Bates and Reid who we know they had quite a bit of interest in.

I am sure Washington is a fine pick but again, round 2 for me is too early for a number 3 receiver. Number 1 or number 2, sure, but number 3 I would have waited. Even moreso as the Steelers because they have been pretty good in their evaluations.

Rudolph was great value but very high risk as far as long term. If Ben plays for 4 more years Rudolphs contract is up and he probably hasn't started any games. That being said, I don't trust Ben to keep playing that long so I am still okay with the pick and of the first 3 it easily has the best value.

Chuks gets an F- from me and there isn't a single article or explanation I have seen that even slightly moves the needle on this grade for me. He is a flat out Munchak project at a position we are fairly solid at and you can get similar players as UDFA's. Again, some of this goes back to my trust in the Steelers to produce good OL. Terrible terrible pick as far as current value.

After the 3rd round I really don't care much because it is all mostly dart throws at that point. Well, all of the draft is a dart throw but the first 3 rounds you really need to be maximizing value and the Steelers failed miserably so far as we sit here today.

Of course if 2 of these guys become All-Pros in 3 years none of us will care.

I said it before in another thread. Anyone that thinks Ben is playing "playoff level football" in four years is smoking something I wanna try. Ben has two solid years, physically, perhaps three. Mentally and psychologically, the team CANNOT count on him for anything but year to year. He sends so many mixed messages. I love Ben, but he is a diva, injury prone and getting long in the tooth. I for one am glad that the team is thinking team first, Ben second. Maybe Dobbs and Rudolph ARE misses....who knows, but nobody hits a home run without swinging....cough...Tom Brady....cough. In fact, I hope they have someone scrutinizing next years QB crop right frigging now for the QB that will make "fans" crap their Dr. Dentons. I lived the Bradshaw/Big Ben gap and never want to do that again!

[Craic]

I said it before in another thread. Anyone that thinks Ben is playing "playoff level football" in four years is smoking something I wanna try. Ben has two solid years, physically, perhaps three.
https://static.tumblr.com/e92fdb5ddf4632da636b5942cb1d5689/2sa2jxc/9Annpay5a/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_532jt23vu0kcccg4g0kcsk c4k_640.jpg

[Hawkman]

https://static.tumblr.com/e92fdb5ddf4632da636b5942cb1d5689/2sa2jxc/9Annpay5a/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_532jt23vu0kcccg4g0kcsk c4k_640.jpg

Gotta love Emma Thompson

[Born2Steel]

Back on point though....the draft doesn't make a lot of sense. Not at this time. Edmunds in the first with Reid AND Bates still on the board? Will have to see if this was the best choice but this pick surprised everyone.

The Bryant trade took most by surprise too. We knew there would be a WR pick at some time. But the trade for a 3rd was a complete surprise.

I think QB was off most people's draft boards once Ben made his announcement to play another 3-5 years. Even so, Rudolph in the 3rd? No brainer pick, but still a surprise there.

With OL help needed Chuks was a position filler pick. I was surprised we went OT instead of OG but maybe BPA at OL at this point. Time will tell.

5th round was another safety with still needing an ILB and some good ones still on the board. That makes no sense to me at all. Of course i have hopes for Allen but would much rather have seen ILB. And then the SAK pick was a surprise that nobody saw coming. I didn't hear anyone or read any articles that even talked about Samuels, much less projected him to the Steelers.

Josh Frazier was a lock in this draft. Had he gone undrafted he would most likely still have been expected at rookie mini camp. This pick had Steelers all over it and was speculated from the beginning.

SO...6of7 picks fall into the 'surprise' category, IMO. Time will tell if the picks make sense but this was definitely a surprise draft.

[Mojouw]

Back on point though....the draft doesn't make a lot of sense. Not at this time. Edmunds in the first with Reid AND Bates still on the board? Will have to see if this was the best choice but this pick surprised everyone.

The Bryant trade took most by surprise too. We knew there would be a WR pick at some time. But the trade for a 3rd was a complete surprise.

I think QB was off most people's draft boards once Ben made his announcement to play another 3-5 years. Even so, Rudolph in the 3rd? No brainer pick, but still a surprise there.

With OL help needed Chuks was a position filler pick. I was surprised we went OT instead of OG but maybe BPA at OL at this point. Time will tell.

5th round was another safety with still needing an ILB and some good ones still on the board. That makes no sense to me at all. Of course i have hopes for Allen but would much rather have seen ILB. And then the SAK pick was a surprise that nobody saw coming. I didn't hear anyone or read any articles that even talked about Samuels, much less projected him to the Steelers.

Josh Frazier was a lock in this draft. Had he gone undrafted he would most likely still have been expected at rookie mini camp. This pick had Steelers all over it and was speculated from the beginning.

SO...6of7 picks fall into the 'surprise' category, IMO. Time will tell if the picks make sense but this was definitely a surprise draft.

But I kinda take "surprise" as far different than "makes no sense".

1. Safety play was bad last year and their were only 2 NFL caliber safeties on the roster (Wilcox doesn't count). The position was an obvious hole. Picking a safety high is absolutely no surprise. Perhaps it is surprising that Reid or Bates wasn't the guy, but in hindsight the Steelers having Edmunds as their top-rated prospect at the position was obvious. He is bigger than the other 2 and his testing #'s are ludicrous. Honestly, it is actually more surprising that none of us or the Steelers internet at large put the team and prospect together. Production starting for a big-time school, size-speed stuff is amazing, and he is young. That is like Steelers first round catnip. So, again we may be surprised, but the pick makes sense. Especially when you consider that from the Steelers perspective instead of taking the 4th best ILB they took the #2 safety.

2. Trading Bryant was a shock, but again it makes a ton of sense. Bryant was gone one way or another after this season. I had real hopes that he would be resigned and flourish. Few are bigger Bryant flag wavers than myself, but it was looking like a split was almost assured. So you get a replacement player for 4 years and a draft pick? Once that pick got over the potential 3rd round comp line, Colbert likely couldn't wait to do the deal. I still say that there is no way that Washington makes us all forget the staggering potential that Bryant brought to WR, but I'll take consistent production.

3. Again, I was surprised that the Steelers took Rudolph, but I think it makes sense and I agree with the approach. Once you have a starting QB get past a certain age/injury point - you need to start looking for the next one. I would be drafting QBs in the 3rd-5th round every year or every other year until I found one I thought I could develop. I would do this regardless of what grumpy noises my starter made. If we take as a given that Landry Jones is not good or at least not someone you want starting 16 games and Dobbs is still too raw to fully evaluate, then basically you really only have one legitimate starting QB on the roster. Rudolph has holes in his game and he has some concerning flaws, but he is the first guy drafted since Ben R that I can look at and say "yeah. I can see that dude starting in the NFL." So again, surprising, but coldly logical.

4. The OT pick is a total shock, but we see the team being just ice-water in the veins logic driven here. Gilbert and AV are free agents in 2020 (age 32) and 2021 (age 32). Some, but not many, tackles age really well. Most don't. Behind them you have an untested Hawkins and Feiler who everyone likes, but may profile better as an NFL guard. So you take a guy in the third who has a low floor because he is totally undeveloped, but many see as having a higher ceiling than any other OT in the draft. Let Munch wave his magic wand over the kid for 2 seasons and you aren't freaking out or forced to sign an aging Gilbert or AV to protect a very old Ben R because you have no other options. If Munch can make NFL caliber OL out of guys like Finney and Feiler, what is he going to do with a guy with the raw ability and size of Chuks?

5. Marcus Allen might be a better ILB than the ILB's left on the board at that point in the draft. He is simply small for the position. Or at least that is the story. I counter with Buchannon, Barron, and any other # of college safeties converted to light duty linebackers. They can call him a safety all they want, but the Steelers did not draft Marcus Allen to turn and run with receivers or to patrol centerfield. They drafted him to attack the line of scrimmage and the ball-carrier from the middle of the field. A decided and fatal weakness for the Shazier-less version of this defense. So again, shocking, but not nonsensical.

6. As to Samuels, well I think it goes like this Conner + Samuels = Leveon Bell. Or at least a version of his role in the offense. Everything I have read about the guy post draft is basically screaming that he is the kind of draft pick that goes undervalued every year and then in 6 months everyone is like, "How did this happen?" Again total surprise because the internet didn't predict it, but not without a ton of cold-blooded logic.

This is not an attempt to confront anyone, I just really feel that while I have no idea if this was a "good" draft or a "bad" draft, I do feel that it is totally an understandable and logic driven draft when you step back and look at it. Almost every move the team made surprised and shocked me and I still am not certain how it will all work for 2018 and beyond. So many questions remain unanswered for us as fans. Like how many safeties can one team roster? All this seems to nail Cam Sutton to the bench - why? Are Burns or Davis on thin ice? What role can Allen play in all this? Will Burnett and Bostic only be one year band-aids? Who will rush the passer? Not certain I agree with all of it, but I do think there is a certain emotionless logic to every move they made.

[pczach]

But I kinda take "surprise" as far different than "makes no sense".

1. Safety play was bad last year and their were only 2 NFL caliber safeties on the roster (Wilcox doesn't count). The position was an obvious hole. Picking a safety high is absolutely no surprise. Perhaps it is surprising that Reid or Bates wasn't the guy, but in hindsight the Steelers having Edmunds as their top-rated prospect at the position was obvious. He is bigger than the other 2 and his testing #'s are ludicrous. Honestly, it is actually more surprising that none of us or the Steelers internet at large put the team and prospect together. Production starting for a big-time school, size-speed stuff is amazing, and he is young. That is like Steelers first round catnip. So, again we may be surprised, but the pick makes sense. Especially when you consider that from the Steelers perspective instead of taking the 4th best ILB they took the #2 safety.

2. Trading Bryant was a shock, but again it makes a ton of sense. Bryant was gone one way or another after this season. I had real hopes that he would be resigned and flourish. Few are bigger Bryant flag wavers than myself, but it was looking like a split was almost assured. So you get a replacement player for 4 years and a draft pick? Once that pick got over the potential 3rd round comp line, Colbert likely couldn't wait to do the deal. I still say that there is no way that Washington makes us all forget the staggering potential that Bryant brought to WR, but I'll take consistent production.

3. Again, I was surprised that the Steelers took Rudolph, but I think it makes sense and I agree with the approach. Once you have a starting QB get past a certain age/injury point - you need to start looking for the next one. I would be drafting QBs in the 3rd-5th round every year or every other year until I found one I thought I could develop. I would do this regardless of what grumpy noises my starter made. If we take as a given that Landry Jones is not good or at least not someone you want starting 16 games and Dobbs is still too raw to fully evaluate, then basically you really only have one legitimate starting QB on the roster. Rudolph has holes in his game and he has some concerning flaws, but he is the first guy drafted since Ben R that I can look at and say "yeah. I can see that dude starting in the NFL." So again, surprising, but coldly logical.

4. The OT pick is a total shock, but we see the team being just ice-water in the veins logic driven here. Gilbert and AV are free agents in 2020 (age 32) and 2021 (age 32). Some, but not many, tackles age really well. Most don't. Behind them you have an untested Hawkins and Feiler who everyone likes, but may profile better as an NFL guard. So you take a guy in the third who has a low floor because he is totally undeveloped, but many see as having a higher ceiling than any other OT in the draft. Let Munch wave his magic wand over the kid for 2 seasons and you aren't freaking out or forced to sign an aging Gilbert or AV to protect a very old Ben R because you have no other options. If Munch can make NFL caliber OL out of guys like Finney and Feiler, what is he going to do with a guy with the raw ability and size of Chuks?

5. Marcus Allen might be a better ILB than the ILB's left on the board at that point in the draft. He is simply small for the position. Or at least that is the story. I counter with Buchannon, Barron, and any other # of college safeties converted to light duty linebackers. They can call him a safety all they want, but the Steelers did not draft Marcus Allen to turn and run with receivers or to patrol centerfield. They drafted him to attack the line of scrimmage and the ball-carrier from the middle of the field. A decided and fatal weakness for the Shazier-less version of this defense. So again, shocking, but not nonsensical.

6. As to Samuels, well I think it goes like this Conner + Samuels = Leveon Bell. Or at least a version of his role in the offense. Everything I have read about the guy post draft is basically screaming that he is the kind of draft pick that goes undervalued every year and then in 6 months everyone is like, "How did this happen?" Again total surprise because the internet didn't predict it, but not without a ton of cold-blooded logic.

This is not an attempt to confront anyone, I just really feel that while I have no idea if this was a "good" draft or a "bad" draft, I do feel that it is totally an understandable and logic driven draft when you step back and look at it. Almost every move the team made surprised and shocked me and I still am not certain how it will all work for 2018 and beyond. So many questions remain unanswered for us as fans. Like how many safeties can one team roster? All this seems to nail Cam Sutton to the bench - why? Are Burns or Davis on thin ice? What role can Allen play in all this? Will Burnett and Bostic only be one year band-aids? Who will rush the passer? Not certain I agree with all of it, but I do think there is a certain emotionless logic to every move they made.


This is a great breakdown and offers a reasonable and understandable point of view about the draft picks and why they were taken.

I think this is a pretty fair assessment of what the team was thinking with each pick. It appears they had all of these players evaluated well above where they drafted them on their board.

We don't have all the information we need yet, and they may still add some talent to the roster before the season starts. However, the type of players they drafted suggest how they will be used based on the configuration of the team going into the draft and the weaknesses they need to address. When you combine that with a front office that has a great track record of knowing what they're doing, you can start to put together a vision of what they might be attempting to do philosophically from a scheme and personnel perspective.

They get the benefit of the doubt from me, and they should from any other Steeler fans that have seen them consistently find quality players and consistently win games. That doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with everything that they did or needs to love every draft pick and every player they acquired. But it is just silly to say that what they did in the draft didn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense to the people saying that because they don't know or understand the approach they are taking.

Time will reveal all.

[ALLD]

Steelers are good at finding WRs and coaching up the OL. I think they took multiple S in order to find one starter. Hopefully they did not waste the R1 pick on Jarvis Jone 2.0.

[FrancoLambert]

Check back in a year or two.....then we'll know if this draft made sense. :coffee:

[Shoes]

But I kinda take "surprise" as far different than "makes no sense".

1. Safety play was bad last year and their were only 2 NFL caliber safeties on the roster (Wilcox doesn't count). The position was an obvious hole. Picking a safety high is absolutely no surprise. Perhaps it is surprising that Reid or Bates wasn't the guy, but in hindsight the Steelers having Edmunds as their top-rated prospect at the position was obvious. He is bigger than the other 2 and his testing #'s are ludicrous. Honestly, it is actually more surprising that none of us or the Steelers internet at large put the team and prospect together. Production starting for a big-time school, size-speed stuff is amazing, and he is young. That is like Steelers first round catnip. So, again we may be surprised, but the pick makes sense. Especially when you consider that from the Steelers perspective instead of taking the 4th best ILB they took the #2 safety.

2. Trading Bryant was a shock, but again it makes a ton of sense. Bryant was gone one way or another after this season. I had real hopes that he would be resigned and flourish. Few are bigger Bryant flag wavers than myself, but it was looking like a split was almost assured. So you get a replacement player for 4 years and a draft pick? Once that pick got over the potential 3rd round comp line, Colbert likely couldn't wait to do the deal. I still say that there is no way that Washington makes us all forget the staggering potential that Bryant brought to WR, but I'll take consistent production.

3. Again, I was surprised that the Steelers took Rudolph, but I think it makes sense and I agree with the approach. Once you have a starting QB get past a certain age/injury point - you need to start looking for the next one. I would be drafting QBs in the 3rd-5th round every year or every other year until I found one I thought I could develop. I would do this regardless of what grumpy noises my starter made. If we take as a given that Landry Jones is not good or at least not someone you want starting 16 games and Dobbs is still too raw to fully evaluate, then basically you really only have one legitimate starting QB on the roster. Rudolph has holes in his game and he has some concerning flaws, but he is the first guy drafted since Ben R that I can look at and say "yeah. I can see that dude starting in the NFL." So again, surprising, but coldly logical.

4. The OT pick is a total shock, but we see the team being just ice-water in the veins logic driven here. Gilbert and AV are free agents in 2020 (age 32) and 2021 (age 32). Some, but not many, tackles age really well. Most don't. Behind them you have an untested Hawkins and Feiler who everyone likes, but may profile better as an NFL guard. So you take a guy in the third who has a low floor because he is totally undeveloped, but many see as having a higher ceiling than any other OT in the draft. Let Munch wave his magic wand over the kid for 2 seasons and you aren't freaking out or forced to sign an aging Gilbert or AV to protect a very old Ben R because you have no other options. If Munch can make NFL caliber OL out of guys like Finney and Feiler, what is he going to do with a guy with the raw ability and size of Chuks?

5. Marcus Allen might be a better ILB than the ILB's left on the board at that point in the draft. He is simply small for the position. Or at least that is the story. I counter with Buchannon, Barron, and any other # of college safeties converted to light duty linebackers. They can call him a safety all they want, but the Steelers did not draft Marcus Allen to turn and run with receivers or to patrol centerfield. They drafted him to attack the line of scrimmage and the ball-carrier from the middle of the field. A decided and fatal weakness for the Shazier-less version of this defense. So again, shocking, but not nonsensical.

6. As to Samuels, well I think it goes like this Conner + Samuels = Leveon Bell. Or at least a version of his role in the offense. Everything I have read about the guy post draft is basically screaming that he is the kind of draft pick that goes undervalued every year and then in 6 months everyone is like, "How did this happen?" Again total surprise because the internet didn't predict it, but not without a ton of cold-blooded logic.

This is not an attempt to confront anyone, I just really feel that while I have no idea if this was a "good" draft or a "bad" draft, I do feel that it is totally an understandable and logic driven draft when you step back and look at it. Almost every move the team made surprised and shocked me and I still am not certain how it will all work for 2018 and beyond. So many questions remain unanswered for us as fans. Like how many safeties can one team roster? All this seems to nail Cam Sutton to the bench - why? Are Burns or Davis on thin ice? What role can Allen play in all this? Will Burnett and Bostic only be one year band-aids? Who will rush the passer? Not certain I agree with all of it, but I do think there is a certain emotionless logic to every move they made.


Nicely done!

Not me, still no TE in R1 or R2 :lol: I think next years TE draft class is going sucks. But I am happy about the R3 pick. I gave this draft an A- to B+ things will work out.

[bendsteel]

https://static.tumblr.com/e92fdb5ddf4632da636b5942cb1d5689/2sa2jxc/9Annpay5a/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_532jt23vu0kcccg4g0kcsk c4k_640.jpg

Fess up! Are you willing to bet the teams future on Bens production four years from now? He may be lights out good or just lights out. No crystal ball here. Answer the question! Do you or do you NOT think Ben will be worth his contract in 4 years? My guess is...not.

[Born2Steel]

But I kinda take "surprise" as far different than "makes no sense".

1. Safety play was bad last year and their were only 2 NFL caliber safeties on the roster (Wilcox doesn't count). The position was an obvious hole. Picking a safety high is absolutely no surprise. Perhaps it is surprising that Reid or Bates wasn't the guy, but in hindsight the Steelers having Edmunds as their top-rated prospect at the position was obvious. He is bigger than the other 2 and his testing #'s are ludicrous. Honestly, it is actually more surprising that none of us or the Steelers internet at large put the team and prospect together. Production starting for a big-time school, size-speed stuff is amazing, and he is young. That is like Steelers first round catnip. So, again we may be surprised, but the pick makes sense. Especially when you consider that from the Steelers perspective instead of taking the 4th best ILB they took the #2 safety.

2. Trading Bryant was a shock, but again it makes a ton of sense. Bryant was gone one way or another after this season. I had real hopes that he would be resigned and flourish. Few are bigger Bryant flag wavers than myself, but it was looking like a split was almost assured. So you get a replacement player for 4 years and a draft pick? Once that pick got over the potential 3rd round comp line, Colbert likely couldn't wait to do the deal. I still say that there is no way that Washington makes us all forget the staggering potential that Bryant brought to WR, but I'll take consistent production.

3. Again, I was surprised that the Steelers took Rudolph, but I think it makes sense and I agree with the approach. Once you have a starting QB get past a certain age/injury point - you need to start looking for the next one. I would be drafting QBs in the 3rd-5th round every year or every other year until I found one I thought I could develop. I would do this regardless of what grumpy noises my starter made. If we take as a given that Landry Jones is not good or at least not someone you want starting 16 games and Dobbs is still too raw to fully evaluate, then basically you really only have one legitimate starting QB on the roster. Rudolph has holes in his game and he has some concerning flaws, but he is the first guy drafted since Ben R that I can look at and say "yeah. I can see that dude starting in the NFL." So again, surprising, but coldly logical.

4. The OT pick is a total shock, but we see the team being just ice-water in the veins logic driven here. Gilbert and AV are free agents in 2020 (age 32) and 2021 (age 32). Some, but not many, tackles age really well. Most don't. Behind them you have an untested Hawkins and Feiler who everyone likes, but may profile better as an NFL guard. So you take a guy in the third who has a low floor because he is totally undeveloped, but many see as having a higher ceiling than any other OT in the draft. Let Munch wave his magic wand over the kid for 2 seasons and you aren't freaking out or forced to sign an aging Gilbert or AV to protect a very old Ben R because you have no other options. If Munch can make NFL caliber OL out of guys like Finney and Feiler, what is he going to do with a guy with the raw ability and size of Chuks?

5. Marcus Allen might be a better ILB than the ILB's left on the board at that point in the draft. He is simply small for the position. Or at least that is the story. I counter with Buchannon, Barron, and any other # of college safeties converted to light duty linebackers. They can call him a safety all they want, but the Steelers did not draft Marcus Allen to turn and run with receivers or to patrol centerfield. They drafted him to attack the line of scrimmage and the ball-carrier from the middle of the field. A decided and fatal weakness for the Shazier-less version of this defense. So again, shocking, but not nonsensical.

6. As to Samuels, well I think it goes like this Conner + Samuels = Leveon Bell. Or at least a version of his role in the offense. Everything I have read about the guy post draft is basically screaming that he is the kind of draft pick that goes undervalued every year and then in 6 months everyone is like, "How did this happen?" Again total surprise because the internet didn't predict it, but not without a ton of cold-blooded logic.

This is not an attempt to confront anyone, I just really feel that while I have no idea if this was a "good" draft or a "bad" draft, I do feel that it is totally an understandable and logic driven draft when you step back and look at it. Almost every move the team made surprised and shocked me and I still am not certain how it will all work for 2018 and beyond. So many questions remain unanswered for us as fans. Like how many safeties can one team roster? All this seems to nail Cam Sutton to the bench - why? Are Burns or Davis on thin ice? What role can Allen play in all this? Will Burnett and Bostic only be one year band-aids? Who will rush the passer? Not certain I agree with all of it, but I do think there is a certain emotionless logic to every move they made.

I agree with you. I tried to sum up at the end that I don't know if this draft doesn't make sense or if it's just more of surprise players draft. I was totally surprised by 6of7 of our picks this year.

[Mojouw]

I agree with you. I tried to sum up at the end that I don't know if this draft doesn't make sense or if it's just more of surprise players draft. I was totally surprised by 6of7 of our picks this year.

Yeah, me too. But then once everything settled and I read/watched more about each player that was picked - I was kinda like "Well, should've really seen that coming.". The only thing no one could've predicted is that the Raiders were willing to pay a higher draft day price than anyone would've thought for Bryant. Once they had that pick and didn't trade up in the first and Rudolph started falling --- we all should've seen that coming!

[Steelerchad]

I don't initially like this draft.
1. They didn't address the ILB vacancy from Shazier with a playmaker.
2. They gave away Bryant for a 3rd and then spent a 2nd to draft what is likely a lesser talent.
3. They had a chance to grab the 2nd best RB in the draft to replace Bell next year.
That being said, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the Steelers until proven otherwise. I'm one of the ones who wanted to draft Eddie Lacy, when they took Bell instead. One is likely out of football, the other is commonly thought of as the best RB in the league. The Steelers also may have some insight to the fact that Bryant is not on the straight and narrow as many think. He's likely gone as they don't plan to resign him next year if not sooner if he slips up again. Why not grab a 3rd and get something for nothing. It'll all shake out eventually. I'm not going to complain about a team who has been top 3 in wins for the last decade and hasn't had a losing season since 2003.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't initially like this draft.

1. They didn't address the ILB vacancy from Shazier with a playmaker.



actually, I believe the Steelers drafted the closest player they could find to Ryan Shazier athletically and are going to use Edmunds to try and fill Shazier's vacancy as much as one possibly can with him...

[86WARD]

After reading about the mini-camp, the draft actually makes a lot of sense...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

. The Steelers also may have some insight to the fact that Bryant is not on the straight and narrow as many think. He's likely gone as they don't plan to resign him next year if not sooner if he slips up again. .

Bryant was a malcontent that didn't want to be in B&G and wasn't going to be signed after this season anyways. He thought he deserved more targets last year. Washington will be a better deep threat because all he is going to do is work hard and earn his targets. Washington also battles for the 50-50 balls better and will be in Pittsburgh for at least the next 4 years.

The add of Washington and subtract of Bryant is likely the best offseason move for the team. Replacing Mike Mitchell with Morgan Burnett should be a close 2nd IMO.

[teegre]

Bryant was a malcontent that didn't want to be in B&G and wasn't going to be signed after this season anyways. He thought he deserved more targets last year. Washington will be a better deep threat because all he is going to do is work hard and earn his targets. Washington also battles for the 50-50 balls better and will be in Pittsburgh for at least the next 4 years.

The add of Washington and subtract of Bryant is likely the best offseason move for the team. Replacing Mike Mitchell with Morgan Burnett should be a close 2nd IMO.

Nailed it.

Let’s play devil’s advocate. Bryant has a careeer year, which helps us immensely in 2018. Then, he leaves, and the BEST we could possibly get is a very late R3 pick.

We got an early R3 pick (already better compensation). And, honestly, the odds of Bryant having a breakout year are far less likely than him relapsing (and/or getting suspended indefinitely).

SUMMATION:
Trading any player is a calculated risk, but everything points to the Steelers making the correct decision.

[GBMelBlount]

After reading about the mini-camp, the draft actually makes a lot of sense...

I agree.

And we generally got good value picks as well.

[Mojouw]

Bryant was a malcontent that didn't want to be in B&G and wasn't going to be signed after this season anyways. He thought he deserved more targets last year. Washington will be a better deep threat because all he is going to do is work hard and earn his targets. Washington also battles for the 50-50 balls better and will be in Pittsburgh for at least the next 4 years.

The add of Washington and subtract of Bryant is likely the best offseason move for the team. Replacing Mike Mitchell with Morgan Burnett should be a close 2nd IMO.


Nailed it.

Let’s play devil’s advocate. Bryant has a careeer year, which helps us immensely in 2018. Then, he leaves, and the BEST we could possibly get is a very late R3 pick.

We got an early R3 pick (already better compensation). And, honestly, the odds of Bryant having a breakout year are far less likely than him relapsing (and/or getting suspended indefinitely).

SUMMATION:
Trading any player is a calculated risk, but everything points to the Steelers making the correct decision.

You fellas seem to have it right. It took me awhile to get on board with this move because I will always believe that Bryant had the physical tools to be the most dominant WR in the league. Honestly, take a look at some rough comparisons:

Randy Moss - http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Randy&l=Moss&i=27002
DeAndre Hopkins - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/deandre-hopkins?position=ATH
Calvin Johnson - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/calvin-johnson?position=ATH
Andre Johnson - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/andre-johnson
Martavis Bryant - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/martavis-bryant?position=ATH

I get that testing #'s do not always have a direct correlation to on-field performance, but the absolute ridiculousness that Bryant brings to the table as an athlete is almost unbelievable. Few guys in the entire league at any one time have those kind of #'s. I truly believe that if he hadn't gotten suspended, we are not having this conversation because JuJu never gets drafted and Bryant is the owner of shiny new long-term extension as he continued to develop. However, Bryant did get suspended and it totally stunted his growth and development as a WR. We all saw last year that the mental side of the game is his biggest problem. Staying focused and running precise routes are not his strong-suite. But as Teegre has said before, when the lights were the brightest, Bryant performed at his best. If Gruden and the Raiders can keep Bryant on the straight and narrow and keep him focused, the might have a steal. Lot's of IF's but Bryant still is only 26 years old and (Presumably with less substance abuse and mental issues than Cris Carter) and could still reach his potential. All that being said, this was the best path the Steelers could take.

The compensation was likely the highest they could realistically achieve and the addition of Washington takes some of the sting out. Washington is no athletic slouch himself - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/james-washington?position=ATH - he just doesn't hold up well in a comparison with Bryant, but almost no one does. However, Washington's production was out of this world.

I will miss the Martavis Bryant who looked like no one could stop him with the ball in his hands in the open field. I will miss the WR that just effortlessly ran away from DB's. But to be honest, we haven't seen that guy consistently in a long time. I said the same thing when Wallace left. As soon as Washington starts catching 20+ yard passes against NFL corners and drawing safety help just by stepping on the field, all my concerns go away. Hopefully it happens soon.

While I wish Bryant the best, I suspect his career will always be a "What If?" story.

[DesertSteel]

MB showed some flashes during one stretch but I never saw a guy who could be the best WR in football, much less a guy who is arguably a top 3 all time WR. Plus the fact that his play is littered with as much garbage play as treasure it really becomes just what he is.

[Mojouw]

MB showed some flashes during one stretch but I never saw a guy who could be the best WR in football, much less a guy who is arguably a top 3 all time WR. Plus the fact that his play is littered with as much garbage play as treasure it really becomes just what he is.

I agree with that assessment of his play. My only point was that the tools are there. In fact he has more tools to work with than most guys. The question is whether he has the mental strength, focus, and drive to channel those tools into consistent elite level performance.

I suspect that is the missing component for Bryant and likely always will be. However, his potential has been and remains (for a year or so yet) simply staggering.

But if we want to talk staggering potential based on testing #'s - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/justin-hunter?position=ATH

Justin Hunter is still somehow only 26 years old. Far less of a knucklehead. If anyone could ever figure out why he can't do on Sundays what he does in practice, he could make some plays.

Bryant and Hunter are similar. Both play down compared to their potential. But Bryant gets the nod as a bit better of a bet because he has already come up big in big moments. Hunter never has.

[DesertSteel]

I agree with that assessment of his play. My only point was that the tools are there. In fact he has more tools to work with than most guys. The question is whether he has the mental strength, focus, and drive to channel those tools into consistent elite level performance.

I suspect that is the missing component for Bryant and likely always will be. However, his potential has been and remains (for a year or so yet) simply staggering.

But if we want to talk staggering potential based on testing #'s - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/justin-hunter?position=ATH

Justin Hunter is still somehow only 26 years old. Far less of a knucklehead. If anyone could ever figure out why he can't do on Sundays what he does in practice, he could make some plays.

Bryant and Hunter are similar. Both play down compared to their potential. But Bryant gets the nod as a bit better of a bet because he has already come up big in big moments. Hunter never has.
The tools are definitely there. Compare that with a guy like AB who lacks height and elite speed and it just shows you how wide receivers are really made. MB is lazy and undisciplined. When you think about it, Coates had quite a stretch of 5 games too. That guy had the size/speed to be very good, but we all know that he's a bum on the field. And you're right about Hunter - physically a total specimen. He'll fade to complete career anonymity.

I really have a good feeling about Washington.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I get that testing #'s do not always have a direct correlation to on-field performance, but the absolute ridiculousness that Bryant brings to the table as an athlete is almost unbelievable. .

How were Hines Ward's testing #'s in his draft year?

Bryant is a classic "looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane" prospect. Except, Jane just bitches about not getting the ball thrown to her, bitches when other WR's are drafted and when she gets the ball thrown to her, doesn't make an effort to get it.

Testing #'s, Spark graphs, PFF stats don't count worth crap if a guy doesn't have the mental desire to grind out the work that will make them better. J.W. seems all about his responsibilities and duty to put in work, while Bryant seemed to be all about his rights and entitlement to be given chances. As a Steeler fan, I am happy #10 moved on.

[Mojouw]

How were Hines Ward's testing #'s in his draft year?

Bryant is a classic "looks like Tarzan, but plays like Jane" prospect. Except, Jane just bitches about not getting the ball thrown to her, bitches when other WR's are drafted and when she gets the ball thrown to her, doesn't make an effort to get it.

Testing #'s, Spark graphs, PFF stats don't count worth crap if a guy doesn't have the mental desire to grind out the work that will make them better. J.W. seems all about his responsibilities and duty to put in work, while Bryant seemed to be all about his rights and entitlement to be given chances. As a Steeler fan, I am happy #10 moved on.

Prior to MB's suspension and year-long ban he was by all accounts a good worker as well. I have repeatedly said that Bryant currently lacks the mental discipline to merge his athletic gifts with the consistent level of production they should produce. IF he does, look out.

As for Washington, he seems like a great kid. Much less of a knucle-head than Bryant. But he will need to go through the same "prove it" initiation into the NFL that every player goes through. Can you do what you did on Saturdays on Sundays against guys that are every bit the athlete and football player you are or can you just beat-up on mediocre defenders in the Big 12? I strongly suspect that Washington will be fine and will go on to excel in the NFL. But nothing is for sure.

My only point was that (For me) it is hard to move off a guy that possess all the tools that Bryant does. Not saying it was a bad idea. Not saying that it won't be for the best, but man oh man. If he gets his head on straight, he has the tools to be the best WR in the league. That is a ton of potential to walk away from. That being said, I absolutely think Colbert made the correct move in this situation. I also do not think that Gruden is going to be the coach to get the most out of Bryant.

[Born2Steel]

How would this offense look with AB, JuJu, Bryant, and Washington? Add Bell and Samuels to that receiving mix? Looks fun to me.

Bryant will always be a question mark. What maybe could have been. You just don't find dynamic athleticism like him every draft. Too bad he couldn't bring it all together.

[AtlantaDan]

Prior to MB's suspension and year-long ban he was by all accounts a good worker as well. I have repeatedly said that Bryant currently lacks the mental discipline to merge his athletic gifts with the consistent level of production they should produce. IF he does, look out.

As for Washington, he seems like a great kid. Much less of a knucle-head than Bryant. But he will need to go through the same "prove it" initiation into the NFL that every player goes through. Can you do what you did on Saturdays on Sundays against guys that are every bit the athlete and football player you are or can you just beat-up on mediocre defenders in the Big 12? I strongly suspect that Washington will be fine and will go on to excel in the NFL. But nothing is for sure.

My only point was that (For me) it is hard to move off a guy that possess all the tools that Bryant does. Not saying it was a bad idea. Not saying that it won't be for the best, but man oh man. If he gets his head on straight, he has the tools to be the best WR in the league. That is a ton of potential to walk away from. That being said, I absolutely think Colbert made the correct move in this situation. I also do not think that Gruden is going to be the coach to get the most out of Bryant.

All Pro players often take some time to make the leap and max out their talent in the pro game (such as Troy making the leap from a confused “bust” in his rookie season to obviously being great in 2004). But that point rarely takes as long as Bryant has been in the league.

I thought Bryant’s breakout point was going to be after his great playoff performances after a rocky 2005 regular season prior to the one year suspension. But when he returned in 2017 he was as inconsistent as ever

I suppose there have been All Pro players (excluding QBs with the different demands of that position) who were given the opportunity to play from their rookie season and did not figure it out until
their 4th or 5th season. I doubt Bryant will be someone who does it now after years of screwing up

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Prior to MB's suspension and year-long ban he was by all accounts a good worker as well. I have repeatedly said that Bryant currently lacks the mental discipline to merge his athletic gifts with the consistent level of production they should produce. IF he does, look out.

As for Washington, he seems like a great kid. Much less of a knucle-head than Bryant. But he will need to go through the same "prove it" initiation into the NFL that every player goes through. Can you do what you did on Saturdays on Sundays against guys that are every bit the athlete and football player you are or can you just beat-up on mediocre defenders in the Big 12? I strongly suspect that Washington will be fine and will go on to excel in the NFL. But nothing is for sure.

My only point was that (For me) it is hard to move off a guy that possess all the tools that Bryant does. Not saying it was a bad idea. Not saying that it won't be for the best, but man oh man. If he gets his head on straight, he has the tools to be the best WR in the league. That is a ton of potential to walk away from. That being said, I absolutely think Colbert made the correct move in this situation. I also do not think that Gruden is going to be the coach to get the most out of Bryant.

I hear ya. My point is that you can look at all the testing numbers, spark graphs or whatever metrics of guys like Dri Archer, Scott Shields, Mike Mamula, Alonzo Spellman, Tony Mandarich, Martavis Bryant, etc. If they don't want to compete or just test better in shorts than they play in pads, then its not worth them having a roster spot.

This is season 5 since Bryant was drafted and all he did last year was complain and underperform. Time to move on and a good thing they got a 3rd round pick for him.

Steelers also moved on from Mike Mitchell, Robert Golden and Wilcox at safety, so they got 2 more to replace them in the draft. Chris Hubbard left, so they saw value in Chukks in the 3rd. I don't know what the author doesn't understand and thinks doesn't make sense. To be successful, you need the guys with the right attitude and skills on board and those with the wrong attitude and skills off the team. That looks like what is going on.

[Fire Goodell]

Washington is gonna make us go Bryant who? Sure he doesn't run the 40 in 4.3 but he fights for the ball, something Bryant doesn't do. He has sure hands, and doesn't come across as a one trick pony.

Juju didn't run the fastest 40 either but he's burned his share of DB's last year. And I think it's ridiculous when these 'experts' say we need someone who's a big play threat. Yeah we have some guy named Antonio Brown who's been doing that... And no, MB wasn't 'drawing coverage' away from Brown. Teams double cover him whether MB was in the lineup or not. If anything, AB will always be doubled so you need a receiver that will win 1on1 matchups. Bryant only wins those matchups if he gets a free release and beats his man by 3-4 yards, cause don't count on him fighting for a ball in traffic (though he did have a sweet 1 handed grab vs the pats). Who was the receiver winning the 1on1 matchups? Not Bryant, it was Juju. And it wasn't because of speed, but a more complete skillset.

Edmunds might be the Shazier replacement. He's a big safety around 220. If he puts on 10-15 lbs he's the same size as Shazier.

[steel striker]

Call me crazy but, the draft is always a crap shoot.

[GBMelBlount]

Washington is gonna make us go Bryant who? Sure he doesn't run the 40 in 4.3 but he fights for the ball, something Bryant doesn't do. He has sure hands, and doesn't come across as a one trick pony.

Juju didn't run the fastest 40 either but he's burned his share of DB's last year. And I think it's ridiculous when these 'experts' say we need someone who's a big play threat. Yeah we have some guy named Antonio Brown who's been doing that... And no, MB wasn't 'drawing coverage' away from Brown. Teams double cover him whether MB was in the lineup or not. If anything, AB will always be doubled so you need a receiver that will win 1on1 matchups. Bryant only wins those matchups if he gets a free release and beats his man by 3-4 yards, cause don't count on him fighting for a ball in traffic (though he did have a sweet 1 handed grab vs the pats). Who was the receiver winning the 1on1 matchups? Not Bryant, it was Juju. And it wasn't because of speed, but a more complete skillset.

Edmunds might be the Shazier replacement. He's a big safety around 220. If he puts on 10-15 lbs he's the same size as Shazier.

Washington could be a number one or two receiver who will be number OUR #3 receiver.

I think this will be a nightmare for defenses.

[86WARD]

Washington could be a number one or two receiver who will be number OUR #3 receiver.

I think this will be a nightmare for defenses.

What makes you say he could be a number one or two receiver without seeing him on an NFL field? He could just as easily be the next Limas Sweed, Troy Edwards or any of the 100s of drafted college WRs...

[hawaiiansteeler]

What makes you say he could be a number one or two receiver without seeing him on an NFL field? He could just as easily be the next Limas Sweed, Troy Edwards or any of the 100s of drafted college WRs...

Steelers spring to action, likely without Le'Veon Bell again

Organized Team Activities begin Tuesday on the South Side

ED BOUCHETTE
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

• The Steelers are counting heavily that rookie James Washington can pick up where Martavis Bryant left off. Bryant had an inconsistent season after serving a one-year suspension in 2016. His average dipped to 12.1 yards per catch, and he did not have a game with more than 65 yards after his 91-yard performance in the second game. He scored just three touchdowns. But defenses always had to pay special attention to the 6-4 man with the 4.42 speed.

Washington is just 5-11 but was a different kind of deep threat at Oklahoma State, where he averaged 20.9 yards on 74 receptions and scored 13 touchdowns last season. The Steelers say he is a deep threat in spite of his height and so-so 4.54 speed because he makes the tough catches. Those catches in the Big 12 will be even tougher in the NFL.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/05/21/le-veon-bell-contract-holdout-steelers-otas-minicamp-2018/stories/201805210090

[86WARD]

That doesn’t mean he’s an NFL #1 WR. Hopefully he will take advantage of the opportunities and excel but there’s nothing that says he’s a #1 guy...not yet at least...