3 FA Linebackers Worth Considering?

[GBMelBlount]

3 free agent linebackers the Steelers should still consider

As the dust settles on the NFL Draft and fans have had time to assess the Pittsburgh Steelers haul of talent, one obvious question remains: Where is the depth at inside linebacker?

With Ryan Shazier lost to injury in 2018 and only Jon Bostic signed to replace him, the Steelers’ inside linebacker group looks significantly weaker on paper than it did at this time last year. Tyler Matakevich remains the primary backup and L.J. Fort would be the next man off the bench as it stands right now.

An argument could be made that the Steelers have a lot more sub-package options now having acquired two players in the draft who could possibly play a nickel linebacker role this season in Terrell Edmunds and Marcus Allen.

However, while these (newly drafted) players offer a potential upgrade to the defense on third down and obvious passing situations, neither of them could be expected to step in as a starting linebacker if Vince Williams or Bostic went down with any sort of long-term injury.

Even if the coaching staff has faith in Matakevich, the same cannot be said of Fort or Sean Spence would never have been signed late last season. There is a chance Spence could still return this offseason, but fans surely saw enough in 2017 to know he is not the missing piece the team needs.

Still, there is plenty of time for the front office to address the issue, and presumably relatively cheaply, too. The free agent market has a number of viable talents left available and here are just three linebackers the Steelers should consider before another team snaps them up.

NAVORRO BOWMAN
Only a few years ago, the idea of having a Pro Bowl talent like Navorro Bowman on the Steelers roster would have been a dream signing. Now, the 30-year-old linebacker could possibly be had at a bargain rate. Significant injuries have unquestionably robbed Bowman of some of his exceptional speed, but it would be fair to say he still moves better than many of his peers.

The former Penn State product was released by the San Francisco 49ers in 2017 after they drafted Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster but was picked up by Oakland soon after. In 10 games with the Raiders....

(continued)

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/04/30/3-free-agent-linebackers-the-steelers-should-still-consider/

[st33lersguy]

All would be better than most of what they have now. Hodges is probably the best option

[GBMelBlount]

All would be better than most of what they have now. Hodges is probably the best option

But how easily could we free up the money to sign them.

[steelreserve]

All would be better than most of what they have now. Hodges is probably the best option

Second that. I'd be nervous about Bowman; it sounded not long ago like he was toast. Could be wrong, but that's a real boom-or-bust signing.

Timmons would be good depth but we wouldn't have a good starter in front of him. Only way that sounds good is if we signed him for the minimum AND got one of the other two.

As for the money, we just gained about $4 million from Wilcox, so I'm pretty confident we could get at least one signing done.

[GBMelBlount]

I am curious if we could afford hodges and signed him, if most here would feel as though we are now in GOOD SHAPE on defense with a lot of talent and options and no more glaring concerns at LB.

[DesertSteel]

I am curious if we could afford hodges and signed him, if most here would feel as though we are now in GOOD SHAPE on defense with a lot of talent and options and no more glaring concerns at LB.
If the best offer he got in 2017 was a practice squad signing by the Saints then he couldn't cost much.

[Mojouw]

I will offer this, these guys are sitting around unsigned for a reason. That being said so are Tre Boston, Eric Reid, and Vaccaro - -all guys everyone was sure were going to get paid in FA.

Bowman and Timmons are most likely going to wait out the market. Neither likely has any interest in OTAs and training camp at this point in their careers. Nor do they likely have much interest in coming in and being a bench player. Bowman and Timmons put enough good on tape last year that they can sit around and wait for someone to break a leg or rip up a knee. Then walk in and play.

Hodges, sure? Maybe? I dunno.

[tube517]

991690479480819713

[Psycho Ward 86]

Bowman supposedly was disgruntled with the coaching staff about being rotated in and out of a game: https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/4/11/17221568/nfl-free-agency-navorro-bowman-free-agent-meaning

Still sounds like he played well. Im strongly in favor of making it happen if we can keep his cap hit relatively low on a prove-it deal

[Mojouw]

Bowman supposedly was disgruntled with the coaching staff about being rotated in and out of a game: https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/4/11/17221568/nfl-free-agency-navorro-bowman-free-agent-meaning

Still sounds like he played well. Im strongly in favor of making it happen if we can keep his cap hit relatively low on a prove-it deal

But to "prove" what exactly? That he will get pissy being rotated out of games? Well that is guaranteed to happen here. To sit on the bench behind Bostic or Williams? A significant chance that happens here. For whatever reasons they may have, the coaching staff chose Bostic over Bowman based on the best information we have. One has to assume that they haven't moved off that evaluation.

[Cyphon25]

I refuse to forgive the Steelers for passing on Josey Jewell to select a 3rd string offensive tackle who might end up on the practice squad. Someday I might forgive them but for now I am still very upset.

[BlackAndGold]

I refuse to forgive the Steelers for passing on Josey Jewell to select a 3rd string offensive tackle who might end up on the practice squad. Someday I might forgive them but for now I am still very upset.

What does Jewell bring over the other ILB's on the roster?

I'd take Okorafor over Jewell. Better prospect with upside.

[Cyphon25]

What does Jewell bring over the other ILB's on the roster?

I'd take Okorafor over Jewell. Better prospect with upside.

He is better than any depth we have and possibly a better starter than Williams (as much as it pains me to say as a big Williams fan). He would also be a good Mack should Bostic go down and Bostic has injury history.

Jewell is easily the better of the 2 prospects but Okorafor could potentially have a higher ceiling. As it stands now he was a waste of a pick with almost no value for the forseeable future.

[BlackAndGold]

He is better than any depth we have and possibly a better starter than Williams (as much as it pains me to say as a big Williams fan). He would also be a good Mack should Bostic go down and Bostic has injury history.

Jewell is easily the better of the 2 prospects but Okorafor could potentially have a higher ceiling. As it stands now he was a waste of a pick with almost no value for the forseeable future.

Saying Jewell is better than VW98 or Bostic is extreme. Jewell is also not projected to be a Mack linebacker. Until proven, he looks like a two down player.

Okorafor could be in position to start at Right Tackle if Gilbert leaves via free agency after the season. Tackle was a need after losing Hubbard.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Saying Jewell is better than VW98 or Bostic is extreme. Jewell is also not projected to be a Mack linebacker. Until proven, he looks like a two down player.


Jewell would have to come off the field on passing downs, he ran a 4.82 at the Combine and that's not fast enough to cover NFL TEs or RBs out of the backfield.

[Psycho Ward 86]

But to "prove" what exactly? That he will get pissy being rotated out of games? Well that is guaranteed to happen here. To sit on the bench behind Bostic or Williams? A significant chance that happens here. For whatever reasons they may have, the coaching staff chose Bostic over Bowman based on the best information we have. One has to assume that they haven't moved off that evaluation.

logic and reality always has a way of killing my dreams. i want to fall in love with our versatile options at safety, but i dont think im ever going to be comfortable with our compensative mega-safety-platoons for the upcoming season. unless we had pre-neck injury Kam Chancellor sitting in the box for us

[Mojouw]

logic and reality always has a way of killing my dreams. i want to fall in love with our versatile options at safety, but i dont think im ever going to be comfortable with our compensative mega-safety-platoons for the upcoming season. unless we had pre-neck injury Kam Chancellor sitting in the box for us

Yeah, not sure I'm in love with it either. But Bowman isn't the answer either. At least I don't think it is...

...Put it this way, they tried to just band aid over the crack last season and it absolutely killed them. Now, the tore the thing down to the foundation and rebuilt it from the ground up. The only problem is that there is a possibility they used a lot of shoddy materials.

[Cyphon25]

Saying Jewell is better than VW98 or Bostic is extreme. Jewell is also not projected to be a Mack linebacker. Until proven, he looks like a two down player.

Okorafor could be in position to start at Right Tackle if Gilbert leaves via free agency after the season. Tackle was a need after losing Hubbard.

Well I said "possibly" better than VW and a good replacement if Bostic got injured. IE, he is a good depth guy to have. Jewell is a better athlete than given credit for. He had one of the best 3 cone times at the combine. And on film we got to watch him play the likes of Saquan Barkley and while Barkley won the war Jewell did win a battle or 2. Besides there are almost no LB's you would prefer on the field over a sub package safety on passing downs if it comes to that. Jewell would be 'good enough' but safety would be better.


Jewell would have to come off the field on passing downs, he ran a 4.82 at the Combine and that's not fast enough to cover NFL TEs or RBs out of the backfield.

40 time is an overrated number from the combine that holds very little value. Almost nobody on an NFL field runs 40 yards on any given play or even close to that in straight line speed. It is a lot more about side to side and things like that. The better numbers are things like the 3 cone and Jewell was 2nd fastest out of all LB's at the combine. And if you care a lot about 40 time there are 2 things to consider:

1. He ran a faster time than Manti Teo, Vontaze Burfict, and Brandon Spikes.

2. At his pro day he improved his 40 into within the same range as Leighton Vander Esch.

And the last thing to keep in mind is that tape trumps testing and he certainly doesn't play slow. He had success in coverage with 6 career interceptions and 26 passes defensed vs say a guy like Roquan Smith who had 0 INT's and only 3 passes defensed. Tremaine Edmunds had 1 INT and 5 passes defensed.

[DesertSteel]

40 time is an overrated number from the combine that holds very little value.
That became a very trendy thing to say about 15 years ago. The thing is that NFL teams continue to use the measurement and draft stock continues to rise/fall based on the number. Someone needs to let the NFL coaches and GMs know that it has very little value.

[Mojouw]

Jewell is a better testable athlete than Matakevich, and Colbert seems to want to hand him the job.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tyler-matakevich?position=ATH

[Dwinsgames]

Jewell is a better testable athlete than Matakevich, and Colbert seems to want to hand him the job.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tyler-matakevich?position=ATH


Matakevich is not a superior athlete to almost any comparison made , he does have great instincts and motor .... it helps make up for his lack of athleticism and makes him a kid you want to see do well .

that said I do not think it is nearly enough to be an effective starter in this league , he has good special teams value and is a decent backup if not being relied upon to heavily or for to long ..

giving him a shot to be a starter would IMO be a grave error in judgement , that said I have been wrong before but I still do not see it here

[Cyphon25]

That became a very trendy thing to say about 15 years ago. The thing is that NFL teams continue to use the measurement and draft stock continues to rise/fall based on the number. Someone needs to let the NFL coaches and GMs know that it has very little value.

I highly doubt draft stock rises and falls based on that number. In fact, we on the outside have no idea where teams have guys rated at almost any point during the process unless they tell us. Just look at this year when people had Terrell Edmunds as low as the third and it turns out teams had him as a first. On the flipside Justin Reid was widely considered a first and lasted until the 3rd.

The most important part of the combine is the medicals and after that comes some chances to interact with the players. Third are the drills most closely associated with each position. So if they are WR's you want to see them catch and run routes. If they are DB's you want to see backpedal and things of that nature. The 40 doesn't tell you a whole lot you can apply to the actual football field and the most important thing to come from the 40 is actually the 10 yard split.

Heck, even some of the drills are just going to be a confirmation of what teams already saw at games or on tape or they will throw up a red flag that might make them go back and take a 2nd look at some tape. Like I keep pointing out just think about when a player ever even runs 40 yards on a football field. It is almost never so teams would be foolish to put a lot of stock into the time.

[Dwinsgames]

I highly doubt draft stock rises and falls based on that number. In fact, we on the outside have no idea where teams have guys rated at almost any point during the process unless they tell us. Just look at this year when people had Terrell Edmunds as low as the third and it turns out teams had him as a first. On the flipside Justin Reid was widely considered a first and lasted until the 3rd.

The most important part of the combine is the medicals and after that comes some chances to interact with the players. Third are the drills most closely associated with each position. So if they are WR's you want to see them catch and run routes. If they are DB's you want to see backpedal and things of that nature. The 40 doesn't tell you a whole lot you can apply to the actual football field and the most important thing to come from the 40 is actually the 10 yard split.

Heck, even some of the drills are just going to be a confirmation of what teams already saw at games or on tape or they will throw up a red flag that might make them go back and take a 2nd look at some tape. Like I keep pointing out just think about when a player ever even runs 40 yards on a football field. It is almost never so teams would be foolish to put a lot of stock into the time.


not saying they should put much stock into any 1 thing ...

that said who do you think organizes the combine and sets the standards up for what is being tested ... none other than the NFL so if they do not put stock into it they would not be doing it

it is in my opinion they put far to much stock in all things the happen in shorts ...

want to test these kids doing these things make them do it in pads then and only then will it show you what they will be like doing those sort of things on a Sunday because as I have said 1000 times not everyone carries pad weight the same ...

a 4.7 -40 guy may still run 4.7 in pads while a 4.5 guy now runs 4.7 in same pads ... the 4.5 guy is seen at having more upside if close otherwise when in fact he has no more upside once those pads are on ...

[Mojouw]

I highly doubt draft stock rises and falls based on that number. In fact, we on the outside have no idea where teams have guys rated at almost any point during the process unless they tell us. Just look at this year when people had Terrell Edmunds as low as the third and it turns out teams had him as a first. On the flipside Justin Reid was widely considered a first and lasted until the 3rd.

The most important part of the combine is the medicals and after that comes some chances to interact with the players. Third are the drills most closely associated with each position. So if they are WR's you want to see them catch and run routes. If they are DB's you want to see backpedal and things of that nature. The 40 doesn't tell you a whole lot you can apply to the actual football field and the most important thing to come from the 40 is actually the 10 yard split.

Heck, even some of the drills are just going to be a confirmation of what teams already saw at games or on tape or they will throw up a red flag that might make them go back and take a 2nd look at some tape. Like I keep pointing out just think about when a player ever even runs 40 yards on a football field. It is almost never so teams would be foolish to put a lot of stock into the time.

Clearly different teams use different rubrics for player evaluation. There is no one way. Some teams seem likely to draft guys that test really really well. Other teams seem to put more stock in other factors.

Some teams put a great deal of stock in 40 times. Some don't. Some players play close to their timed speed. Some don't.

[Cyphon25]

not saying they should put much stock into any 1 thing ...

that said who do you think organizes the combine and sets the standards up for what is being tested ... none other than the NFL so if they do not put stock into it they would not be doing it

it is in my opinion they put far to much stock in all things the happen in shorts ...

want to test these kids doing these things make them do it in pads then and only then will it show you what they will be like doing those sort of things on a Sunday because as I have said 1000 times not everyone carries pad weight the same ...

a 4.7 -40 guy may still run 4.7 in pads while a 4.5 guy now runs 4.7 in same pads ... the 4.5 guy is seen at having more upside if close otherwise when in fact he has no more upside once those pads are on ...

I agree they should test them in pads and you are right, they do say what they do already but I still think a lot of it is supllemental more than anything. See how prepared these kids are and how they do under the pressure of testing.

[Rotorhead]

a 4.7 -40 guy may still run 4.7 in pads while a 4.5 guy now runs 4.7 in same pads ... the 4.5 guy is seen at having more upside if close otherwise when in fact he has no more upside once those pads are on ...

This is 100% correct, in HS there were 5 of us that could run between 4.42 and 4.48 40's, but when we had pads on, I could run past all of them.

[Cyphon25]

Heck, we see it with AB all of the time. Didn't they run a 40 at practice one time with a few of the WR's and Shazier and AB was last? But put the ball in his hands in a game and you don't catch him.

The opposite with Dri Archer. Ran a 4.3 and in pads looked like about a 4.7. Maybe because the pads weighed more than he did.

[DesertSteel]

Heck, we see it with AB all of the time. Didn't they run a 40 at practice one time with a few of the WR's and Shazier and AB was last? But put the ball in his hands in a game and you don't catch him.

The opposite with Dri Archer. Ran a 4.3 and in pads looked like about a 4.7. Maybe because the pads weighed more than he did.
That's also one of the reasons AB went in the 6th round and Dri in the 3rd, even though they both played for small school MAC teams.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Jewell is a better testable athlete than Matakevich, and Colbert seems to want to hand him the job.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tyler-matakevich?position=ATH

What were Jewells measurable? I thought he had great short area quickness rather than long speed and some pro comparisons were Sean Lee type ILB.

[teegre]

All of this talk about 40 times makes me think of two things:

1) A heard a defensive back talking about Jerry Rice, when someone mentioned Rice’s slow 40 time: “Tell me one time when Rice had the ball in his hand and got caught from behind... I’ve never seen it happen.”

2) I have mentioned this in other threads, but it bears iteration. James Washington did not have the fastest 40 time of the receivers in this draft. But, when the pads were on, they clocked Washington as being one of the fastest (if not THE fastest) receiver in this draft. (He loses no speed when his pads go on... and, in fact, like Rice, he appears to actually get faster).


One other thing... years ago, I heard a Steelers scout talk about receivers, and he mentioned what made John Stallworth special was his ability to maintain his full speed when making cuts/running routes. The scout talked about how guys can run straight-line very fast, but when they cut/run routes, they will round it off/don’t look sharp... or, worse yet, they will slow down. The scout was amazed how Stallworth would make crisp cuts at full speed... which created separation from the CB. (He specifically looked at tape of how receivers cut, when evaluating them for the draft.)

[GBMelBlount]

Bowman supposedly was disgruntled with the coaching staff about being rotated in and out of a game: https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/4/11/17221568/nfl-free-agency-navorro-bowman-free-agent-meaning

Still sounds like he played well. Im strongly in favor of making it happen if we can keep his cap hit relatively low on a prove-it deal

Sounds like Bowman might cost about $6 mil.

Steelers should pursue NaVorro Bowman after Raiders move on

NaVorro Bowman should not be available right now. It is that simple. The former All-Pro linebacker should have returned to the Oakland Raiders earlier in the offseason on a deal that made sense for both sides. But as neither could agree to a dollar figure, the Raiders moved on Friday by signing an even older linebacker, Derrick Johnson, to replace him. The NFL Draft has passed. Most teams have filled their linebacker depth charts. Bowman is dangerously at risk of winding up without a team when training camp kicks off in July.

There is one team that still needs help at inside linebacker, and that team is a perfect fit for Bowman.

The Pittsburgh Steelers desperately needed inside linebacker help in the Draft, but elected to focus on offense and the secondary with their selections.

Their first-round choice of Terrell Edmunds, a safety out of Virginia Tech with the athleticism and body to play linebacker in sub-packages, might help fix the position, but it won't do so alone.

Edmunds is a linebacker for specific kinds of plays. He is not a three-down player at that position. He may go a long way in replacing the athleticism of injured linebacker Ryan Shazer, but Shazier brought far more to the table than that.

(Continued)

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Bolt/Pittsburgh-Steelers-should-pursue-NaVorro-Bowman-after-Oakland-Raiders-move-on-117972602

[Mojouw]

I'm not sure the article even makes sense. Here is a quote:

"Beyond that, he has the cache that the Steelers are missing in that position group. The Steelers had a superstar and lost him. Bowman isn't one anymore, but he has been in the past. He will command respect with the young players and fear in opponents. Bowman has to be taken seriously."

So a guy used to be really really good. Now he is kinda good. Everyone will respect the heck out of him for things he used to be able to do but doesn't anymore. Huh?

Another nugget of wisdom: "Bowman is no longer an elite coverage linebacker, which the Steelers would love without Shazier. But he is still dominant against the run. If the Steelers really believe that Edmunds can play linebacker on third downs, then that weakness of Bowman's is mitigated. He fills the early down need at linebacker while Edmunds and his incredibly athleticism fills the passing downs need. In the aggregate, they form one all-around linebacker to replace Shazier."

So the article author wants to pay Bowman $6 million per year to stop the run on 2 downs? That's about 3 times the amount they pay VW to do that job. Any salary north of 4 million or so would make Bowman the 3rd or 4th highest paid guy on the entire defense. To play 2 run stop downs a series? I mean, I guess...but that just seems to fail to take into account about a half dozen or so different realities of salary cap era roster construction.

[GBMelBlount]

I'm not sure the article even makes sense. Here is a quote:

"Beyond that, he has the cache that the Steelers are missing in that position group. The Steelers had a superstar and lost him. Bowman isn't one anymore, but he has been in the past. He will command respect with the young players and fear in opponents. Bowman has to be taken seriously."

So a guy used to be really really good. Now he is kinda good. Everyone will respect the heck out of him for things he used to be able to do but doesn't anymore. Huh?

Another nugget of wisdom: "Bowman is no longer an elite coverage linebacker, which the Steelers would love without Shazier. But he is still dominant against the run. If the Steelers really believe that Edmunds can play linebacker on third downs, then that weakness of Bowman's is mitigated. He fills the early down need at linebacker while Edmunds and his incredibly athleticism fills the passing downs need. In the aggregate, they form one all-around linebacker to replace Shazier."

So the article author wants to pay Bowman $6 million per year to stop the run on 2 downs? That's about 3 times the amount they pay VW to do that job.

Any salary north of 4 million or so would make Bowman the 3rd or 4th highest paid guy on the entire defense. To play 2 run stop downs a series?

I mean, I guess...but that just seems to fail to take into account about a half dozen or so different realities of salary cap era roster construction.

Great points.

Is a 2 down run stopper on defense a good reason for so many to think the sky is falling on defense?

It looks like there is speculation 5 mil might be the number for a 1 year deal with Bowman.

https://stillcurtain.com/2018/05/07/pittsburgh-steelers-one-final-option-inside-linebacker/

[steelreserve]

If the reason he's not with the Raiders is because of money, he's probably too expensive for us as well ...

[Mojouw]

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/5/4/17310164/an-in-depth-look-at-the-pittsburgh-steelers-salary-cap-after-the-2018-nfl-draft-picks-news-update

Yeah this article makes it look like there isn't any cash left to spend regardless of whether or not Bowman wanted to play here and the staff wanted him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/5/4/17310164/an-in-depth-look-at-the-pittsburgh-steelers-salary-cap-after-the-2018-nfl-draft-picks-news-update

Yeah this article makes it look like there isn't any cash left to spend regardless of whether or not Bowman wanted to play here and the staff wanted him.

we could always restructure and extend Ben's contract by another 3 years :stirthepot:

[FrancoLambert]

Great points.

Is a 2 down run stopper on defense a good reason for so many to think the sky is falling on defense?

It looks like there is speculation 5 mil might be the number for a 1 year deal with Bowman.

https://stillcurtain.com/2018/05/07/pittsburgh-steelers-one-final-option-inside-linebacker/

A 2 down run stopper sure would have helped in the Jaguars game.

We got gashed regularly up the middle. The ILB group is so weak, if Bowman upgrades it significantly, pay him the money we saved on Wilcox.

[GBMelBlount]

A 2 down run stopper sure would have helped in the Jaguars game.

We got gashed regularly up the middle. The ILB group is so weak, if Bowman upgrades it significantly, pay him the money we saved on Wilcox.

My thoughts as well, maybe even a little more?

Could this be the last piece to a championship?

[steelreserve]

we could always restructure and extend Ben's contract by another 3 years :stirthepot:

Speaking of quarterbacks, I know a certain guy who's making $2 million for no good reason ...

Yeah, probably not enough to sign anyone else, but at least there's the $2 million cushion we're currently missing.

[Mojouw]

Again, I will ask a simple question. Does everyone just discount Bostic? He is an NFL player who claims to be an ILB. He was signed to the roster several weeks ago. They only start 2. One is VW. Presumably the other is Bostic. Why would Bowman or Timmons or any other vet with an eye towards another year or two of starting come here to be the 3rd ILB? Because the uniforms look cool?

All these guys (Bowman, Timmons, Vaccaro, Boston, Reid) are most likely to sit on the market through OTAs and the heat of August. Then teams will have injuries or FAs/draft picks will not pan out. Right at the end of camp and into the first portion of preseason may be when many of these guys finally get a deal. Allows them to miss all the nonsense vets hate and potentially maximize their ability to play a high # of snaps.

Of course this means that one of the dudes I mentioned will sign tomorrow. Because whenever I make a statement like the above I am always wrong!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Again, I will ask a simple question. Does everyone just discount Bostic?

I'll add Matakevich to that equation, if he hadn't gotten hurt last season he'd have been starting instead of Spence. with VW, Bostic and Matakevich we have three 2 down LBers already.

[steelreserve]

Again, I will ask a simple question. Does everyone just discount Bostic? He is an NFL player who claims to be an ILB. He was signed to the roster several weeks ago. They only start 2. One is VW. Presumably the other is Bostic. Why would Bowman or Timmons or any other vet with an eye towards another year or two of starting come here to be the 3rd ILB? Because the uniforms look cool?

All these guys (Bowman, Timmons, Vaccaro, Boston, Reid) are most likely to sit on the market through OTAs and the heat of August. Then teams will have injuries or FAs/draft picks will not pan out. Right at the end of camp and into the first portion of preseason may be when many of these guys finally get a deal. Allows them to miss all the nonsense vets hate and potentially maximize their ability to play a high # of snaps.

Of course this means that one of the dudes I mentioned will sign tomorrow. Because whenever I make a statement like the above I am always wrong!

I'm not super familiar with Bostic, but everything I've seen on him suggests that he's closer to the fundamental un-flashy VW type of linebacker than the dynamic playmaker who can cover tight ends and running backs, which is what we are still sorely lacking.

So I'm kind of worried that this year will go like the end of last year if he and VW have more overlapping than complementary skill sets.

Then again, I don't know what you can really do about it at this point except maybe sign the third guy on the list here. I just hope they have a plan for this, because if the plan is "use a guy in Shazier's role who's slower and less skilled," then that will work about as well as the "use Tyrone Carter in Troy Polamalu's role and don't change anything else and get burned all day" defense ... only for the whole season, and after having 10 months to prepare.

tl;dr version - I sure hope Bostic is a lot better than the random gossip suggests.

[BlackAndGold]

If they add an ILB to the roster, they may acquire one via trade.

[teegre]

So... what are the Eagles going to do with Mychal Kendricks? He was supposedly on the trade block during the draft, but he is still there (rotting in the doghouse). At this point, might they take next year’s R4 pick???

[pczach]

Again, I will ask a simple question. Does everyone just discount Bostic? He is an NFL player who claims to be an ILB. He was signed to the roster several weeks ago. They only start 2. One is VW. Presumably the other is Bostic. Why would Bowman or Timmons or any other vet with an eye towards another year or two of starting come here to be the 3rd ILB? Because the uniforms look cool?

All these guys (Bowman, Timmons, Vaccaro, Boston, Reid) are most likely to sit on the market through OTAs and the heat of August. Then teams will have injuries or FAs/draft picks will not pan out. Right at the end of camp and into the first portion of preseason may be when many of these guys finally get a deal. Allows them to miss all the nonsense vets hate and potentially maximize their ability to play a high # of snaps.

Of course this means that one of the dudes I mentioned will sign tomorrow. Because whenever I make a statement like the above I am always wrong!



Bostic is the ILB version of the 4th round quarterback that can never help the team.....:sofunny:


I actually think Bostic is going to be a good player here. He is not overly fast, but he is instinctive and he has some athleticism which means he plays fast. He has a better DL in front of him than he did in Indy to help him make plays. He is a big hitter and like VW shows a good ability to get to the quarterback on blitzes. I look at him as a slightly quicker and more athletic Vince Williams. I'm not going to say he's a world-beater, but I do think he's a hell of a lot better than anyone else we say play the position after Shazier went down last year.

[FrancoLambert]

I'll add Matakevich to that equation, if he hadn't gotten hurt last season he'd have been starting instead of Spence. with VW, Bostic and Matakevich we have three 2 down LBers already.


I'm certainly in the minority here, but I don't see Matakevich as anything more than a good special teams player.
From all accounts, a good kid, interesting seventh round pick story......but IMO a backup ILB at best.
If forced to play regularly....no improvement in stopping the run.
He makes a lot of tackles.....4-5 yards downfield.

[Mojouw]

I'm not super familiar with Bostic, but everything I've seen on him suggests that he's closer to the fundamental un-flashy VW type of linebacker than the dynamic playmaker who can cover tight ends and running backs, which is what we are still sorely lacking.

So I'm kind of worried that this year will go like the end of last year if he and VW have more overlapping than complementary skill sets.

Then again, I don't know what you can really do about it at this point except maybe sign the third guy on the list here. I just hope they have a plan for this, because if the plan is "use a guy in Shazier's role who's slower and less skilled," then that will work about as well as the "use Tyrone Carter in Troy Polamalu's role and don't change anything else and get burned all day" defense ... only for the whole season, and after having 10 months to prepare.

tl;dr version - I sure hope Bostic is a lot better than the random gossip suggests.

And that may very well be true. And that is all that Bowman is at this point in his career as well. Age and injury have sapped his ability to cover and he now would have an overlapping skill set with VW at 2-3 times the cost of Bostic.

So why all the Bowman love? Because he was super good 2 injuries and 5 years ago?

[st33lersguy]

Bostic is a backup level player, he's a depth player, not someone you want starting. I thought Bostic was a good signing for depth purposes as I assumed they would do more to address the position. He is not someone you want to add if you have don't plan on addressing the position further. You can't say theat their current LB corp is weak. Other than Vince Williams who is solid but not great and TJ Watt who showed promise year 1, there really is not another starting caliber LB on the team (inside and outside).

[GBMelBlount]

Bostic is a backup level player, he's a depth player, not someone you want starting. I thought Bostic was a good signing for depth purposes as I assumed they would do more to address the position. He is not someone you want to add if you have don't plan on addressing the position further. You can't say theat their current LB corp is weak. Other than Vince Williams who is solid but not great and TJ Watt who showed promise year 1, there really is not another starting caliber LB on the team (inside and outside).

Edmunds and Allen could be good linebackers and are tackling machines.

[steelreserve]

And that may very well be true. And that is all that Bowman is at this point in his career as well. Age and injury have sapped his ability to cover and he now would have an overlapping skill set with VW at 2-3 times the cost of Bostic.

So why all the Bowman love? Because he was super good 2 injuries and 5 years ago?

He's a "name" player and people remember him from when he was good. I'm not crazy about the idea either; don't see how it helps us unless we need depth, in which case just go sign Timmons for cheaper.

Speaking of Raiders ILBs, who's that asshole who played for them and the Ravens and keeps getting arrested, I think retired and un-retired at one point? Is he out of jail yet?

[tube517]

He's a "name" player and people remember him from when he was good. I'm not crazy about the idea either; don't see how it helps us unless we need depth, in which case just go sign Timmons for cheaper.

Speaking of Raiders ILBs, who's that asshole who played for them and the Ravens and keeps getting arrested, I think retired and un-retired at one point? Is he out of jail yet?

Rolondo McClain. He's done. Indefinite suspension.

[Born2Steel]

Whatever happens, I hope we don't bring in any player that might say things on social media or on the radio that make the tabloid headlines. Too many of those threads already and not enough real football threads any more. I like this thread. I don't have much to add but I come here daily to read up. Good conversation here.

[GBMelBlount]

Whatever happens, I hope we don't bring in any player that might say things on social media or on the radio that make the tabloid headlines.

Too many of those threads already and not enough real football threads any more.

I like this thread. I don't have much to add but I come here daily to read up. Good conversation here.

Well said and agreed. In fact I don't even read a lot of those threads.

I saw some video interviews of the first three drafted players this year and they all seem like good quality people.

I really think that character counts in the Steelers draft decision making process.

I also think this leads to a better team/locker room chemistry and can carry over onto the field as well.

When you like your teammates, you play that much harder for them too.

[steelreserve]

Well said and agreed. In fact I don't even read a lot of those threads.

I saw some video interviews of the first three drafted players this year and they all seem like good quality people.

I really think that character counts in the Steelers draft decision making process.

I also think this leads to a better team/locker room chemistry and can carry over onto the field as well.

When you like your teammates, you play that much harder for them too.


Also those kinds of players tend to get fewer weed suspensions that lead to them being traded or released, fewer games where they're ineffective or inactive because of attitude problems, etc.

It's probably no coincidence if we focused on this after all the recent activity with our weed-powered offense the last couple seasons.

[GBMelBlount]

Also those kinds of players tend to get fewer weed suspensions that lead to them being traded or released, fewer games where they're ineffective or inactive because of attitude problems, etc.

It's probably no coincidence if we focused on this after all the recent activity with our weed-powered offense the last couple seasons.

Yes, it seems like they are learning.

For instance THIS year they made it a point to consider tackling skills when drafting players on defense.

[BlackAndGold]

So... what are the Eagles going to do with Mychal Kendricks? He was supposedly on the trade block during the draft, but he is still there (rotting in the doghouse). At this point, might they take next year’s R4 pick???

You know I'd be for it. May be a trade that could go down in the pre season.

[pczach]

So... what are the Eagles going to do with Mychal Kendricks? He was supposedly on the trade block during the draft, but he is still there (rotting in the doghouse). At this point, might they take next year’s R4 pick???


He fits the job description. This would be an interesting move if they could pull it off, and add more speed and athleticism to the position.

I was surprised that no team got this done during the draft.

Maybe it's still on the table and something they're working on?

[Mojouw]

He fits the job description. This would be an interesting move if they could pull it off, and add more speed and athleticism to the position.

I was surprised that no team got this done during the draft.

Maybe it's still on the table and something they're working on?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/05/eagles-beat-writer-thinks-lb-mychal-kendricks-could-be-had-for-5th-round-pick/

Article kinda buries the lede however. Basically Kendricks costs more than the Steelers have to spend right now. So they would need to get their hands on about $6 million in cap space. Despite the initial reporting that they have roughly that available, apparently when you dig into how the cap works, they are actually going to be OVER by 2 million or so.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/5/4/17310164/an-in-depth-look-at-the-pittsburgh-steelers-salary-cap-after-the-2018-nfl-draft-picks-news-update

Assume they could find the cap $$ in the couch cushions at the facility, should they use that space and a draft pick on Kendricks?

They have similar testing #'s from their pre-draft workouts several years back:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jonathan-bostic
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/mychal-kendricks

Admittedly, Kendricks has better #'s and may be a bit more of a twitchy athlete. But neither are in shouting distance of Shazier. And they are within sight of one another. So an advantage to Kendricks, but not a massive one.

Looking at their production, based on tackle #'s they seem to be roughly similar at stopping the run. I didn't see stats on tackles for a loss, so I don't know if one racks up tackles 3 yards downfield while the other is getting them all at the LOS. Kendricks has far more starting experience and has frankly played more football than Bostic. Additionally, Kendricks based on INTS and passes defensed seems to be the better player in coverages.

The contract is where things get separation.

Bostic counts 1.5 and 2.5 million against the cap this year and next. Then he is off the books.
Kendricks would count 7.6 and 8.6 million against the cap this year and next. Then he would also be off the books.

So to make Kendricks work, you need to find almost 8 million in cap space this year and almost 9 million next year. Plus a draft pick. The pick isn't a big deal as they seem to trade one of those every off-season now to try and patch a hole. But the money is a problem. I think they could find the cap space if they wanted to. Either extend or restructure someone - potentially Kendricks himself after a trade (I believe they did this with Wilcox). However, there is always the problem that restructuring someone (say Haden because of the amount of his contract) causes its own set of problems!

The sheer amount is a problem. Traditionally, the Steelers have kept their salary structure slanted towards team leaders and building blocks. If Kendricks came over, he would be competing for a spot and instantly become the 3rd highest paid defensive player behind Heyward and Haden. Is that by definition a problem? No. Haden came in that way and they seemed willing to do it for Hightower. But it would be out of character for the team. Related to all that, is that say Kendricks wins the starting spot. Now you are paying 1.5 million for Bostic to sit on the bench.

Finally, something is going on with Kendricks in general. He has seemingly been on the trade block for 2-3 years. Either the Eagles really don't want to trade him and are just going through the motions to try and appease the player. Or Kendricks (@ least at his salary) is not really as good as fans think he is. I mean look at the Pats. Sideline to sideline speed and agility is totally absent in their linebacking corps. They arguably lost the SB because of it. They had all of the draft picks. Yet nothing happened. The Colts had a fistful of picks, but opted for Leonard at the top of the 2nd rather than prying Kendricks loose from the Eagles. All I am saying is that it is possible that NFL teams look at this guy and don't see the same thing we all do.

Long story short - do I think that Kendricks is better than the other ILBs on the roster? Yes. Do I think it is enough better to move off Bostic before he even plays a down, add significantly to the cap, and burn a draft pick? Maybe not. Would I be upset if they did it? Nope. Any roll of the dice to make your team better is a good one!

[steelreserve]

So to make Kendricks work, you need to find almost 8 million in cap space this year and almost 9 million next year. Plus a draft pick. The pick isn't a big deal as they seem to trade one of those every off-season now to try and patch a hole. But the money is a problem. I think they could find the cap space if they wanted to. Either extend or restructure someone - potentially Kendricks himself after a trade (I believe they did this with Wilcox). However, there is always the problem that restructuring someone (say Haden because of the amount of his contract) causes its own set of problems!

Purely from a money standpoint, I think we'd be ok. We have a HUGE amount of cap space freeing up next year - $14 million for Bell and $9 million for Shazier. (Is Gilbert's contract expiring too? That OT pick may make a lot more sense suddenly.)

In any event, that's at least $23 million just for those two players, so all we have to do is shove some salary from this year into next year with bonuses, which is easy.

As far as paying Bostic $1.5M to be the third LB, that's fine. It's not an insane amount of money, and honestly you want your first guy off the bench to be better than a complete scrub, because ILB is one position where he WILL get on the field a decent amount. So I wouldn't consider that a waste at all.

Basically the one thing we REALLY need is a linebacker who can cover, it is a fatal flaw that could be season-ending. So I am in favor of doing whatever we need to get one. Next year we'll have another big hole to fill at RB, and I don't see the OLB problem going away, so I don't know if a better solution for this season.

[Mojouw]

Purely from a money standpoint, I think we'd be ok. We have a HUGE amount of cap space freeing up next year - $14 million for Bell and $9 million for Shazier. (Is Gilbert's contract expiring too? That OT pick may make a lot more sense suddenly.)

In any event, that's at least $23 million just for those two players, so all we have to do is shove some salary from this year into next year with bonuses, which is easy.

As far as paying Bostic $1.5M to be the third LB, that's fine. It's not an insane amount of money, and honestly you want your first guy off the bench to be better than a complete scrub, because ILB is one position where he WILL get on the field a decent amount. So I wouldn't consider that a waste at all.

Basically the one thing we REALLY need is a linebacker who can cover, it is a fatal flaw that could be season-ending. So I am in favor of doing whatever we need to get one. Next year we'll have another big hole to fill at RB, and I don't see the OLB problem going away, so I don't know if a better solution for this season.

That's a good point. Not sure where you get $8 million this year, unless post trade you do some sort of contract re-work.

But I wonder if the Steelers are thinking that on 1-5 scale, Shazier was a 5. Kendricks is a 3-4 and Bostic is a 3. So is the jump to a 3.5 worth 7 million and a draft pick? I think valid arguments can be made either way. I get the gut feeling that until the team sees Bostic play, they are of the mind that the difference between Bostic and Kendricks is not big enough to justify the cost.

[hawaiiansteeler]

MARCH 31, 2018

Mailbag: What is Mychal Kendricks' trade value?

BY JIMMY KEMPSKI
PhillyVoice Staff
EAGLES NFL

In our weekly Eagles chat on Thursday, there were a lot of questions that we could not get to in time or other questions we did answer but could use more color. And so, let's do a mailbag post to answer some of the overflow.

Question from Alex: If the Eagles trade Mychal Kendricks, what would they get in return for him?

to read rest of article:

http://www.phillyvoice.com/mailbag-what-mychal-kendricks-trade-value/

[Mojouw]

MARCH 31, 2018

Mailbag: What is Mychal Kendricks' trade value?

BY JIMMY KEMPSKI
PhillyVoice Staff
EAGLES NFL

In our weekly Eagles chat on Thursday, there were a lot of questions that we could not get to in time or other questions we did answer but could use more color. And so, let's do a mailbag post to answer some of the overflow.

Question from Alex: If the Eagles trade Mychal Kendricks, what would they get in return for him?

to read rest of article:

http://www.phillyvoice.com/mailbag-what-mychal-kendricks-trade-value/

This still sets of low-level warning bells for me. Every time anyone with any knowledge of the situation writes about Kendricks it is about how "they almost traded him" or "several teams have asked" or something along those lines.

If this dude is truly an $8 million per year LB (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/inside-linebacker/) and that would put him right at the top of the league, then why can't a deal get done?

I figure either the Eagles really don't want to trade him due to injury history of the other players in the LB corps and it is all a smokescreen to appease Kendricks. OR He simply isn't $8 million per year good. OR Maybe he is and the bargain of the decade is Kendricks for a 4th or 5th?

Something just doesn't seem totally right about this whole thing.

[steelreserve]

This still sets of low-level warning bells for me. Every time anyone with any knowledge of the situation writes about Kendricks it is about how "they almost traded him" or "several teams have asked" or something along those lines.

If this dude is truly an $8 million per year LB (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/inside-linebacker/) and that would put him right at the top of the league, then why can't a deal get done?

I figure either the Eagles really don't want to trade him due to injury history of the other players in the LB corps and it is all a smokescreen to appease Kendricks. OR He simply isn't $8 million per year good. OR Maybe he is and the bargain of the decade is Kendricks for a 4th or 5th?

Something just doesn't seem totally right about this whole thing.


It could be there's a disconnect between what they're asking and what everyone is offering.

Like, the Eagles are saying "This is a top player, we want equal value AND you take the salary," and the teams calling them are in a mindset more like, "This is a salary dump; if we're going to take on a contract like that, then the trade itself had better be for peanuts, otherwise go ahead and release him." AND that they think $8 million is overpaying, so again they're only offering peanuts.

Do I think $8 million is overvalued for a guy like that? Absolutely. Could it be worth it for us in particular? There's a great chance. I think the lack of a mobile ILB with coverage skills, for this team, is $8 million worth of problems, if not more.

Kind of like what they say about relationships or jobs: "is this one thing so important that having it will make everything great?" No - but NOT having that one thing is so important that it can sure ruin everything.

[teegre]

re: Mychal Kendricks

His $17 million price tag (2 years) is more concerning than “wasting” a draft pick in order to acquire him.

[BlackAndGold]

Contract restructurings will need to happen if Kendricks was brought in via trade, but...

Kendricks for a 5th round pick?
https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOrw5LIxb8S9X1LGg/giphy.gif

[teegre]

Contract restructurings will need to happen if Kendricks was brought in via trade, but...

Kendricks for a 5th round pick?
https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOrw5LIxb8S9X1LGg/giphy.gif


Yep.

Turn it into a 4 year / $20 million contract. It would only be $3 million more than he’s already set to make; so, he might not go for it. Then again, if he gets a chance to actually play, he very well just might agree to it.

[Shoes]

Steelers don't have any comp picks in 2019 for whatever thats worth.

[86WARD]

Sounds like the Eagles are releasing Kendricks post June 1st release. Looking like a savings of $6M in cap space. So he will be out there if the Steelers have serious interest.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Sounds like the Eagles are releasing Kendricks post June 1st release. Looking like a savings of $6M in cap space. So he will be out there if the Steelers have serious interest.

Eagles release inside linebacker Mychal Kendricks

By Chris Wesseling
Around the NFL Writer
Published: May 22, 2018

"Now that he's free, Kendricks figures to generate plenty of interest on the open market, perhaps even from the cross-state Steelers, who are still in search of a replacement for Ryan Shazier."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000933857/article/eagles-release-inside-linebacker-mychal-kendricks

[Psycho Ward 86]

Eagles lost LB Paul Worrilow to an ACL tear just as they released Kendricks. Damn, talk about horrible timing

Kendricks has to at least be in consideration. Test the waters and see what happens. Kendricks very well might take a little less money to be on a great team again just like Haden did

[hawaiiansteeler]

NaVorro Bowman, linebacker

Bowman got relatively good reviews for his brief stint with the Raiders, but Oakland showed what it thought of the three-time Pro Bowler by signing Tahir Whitehead and Derrick Johnson this offseason. It seemed likely that Bowman would be able to help as a run-defender, but the Raiders were slightly worse with Bowman on the field. Oakland last season averaged 4.1 yards per carry and a 22.2 percent first-down rate on the ground with Bowman in the lineup and 3.9 yards per rush with a 20.1 percent first-down rate while he was in San Francisco or off the field.

Even if Bowman isn't the superstar linebacker we saw before his serious knee injury, it's a surprise that there isn't more of a market for a veteran with his level of leadership. There's one contender with a huge weakness on the interior: The Steelers haven't really added anyone to replace Ryan Shazier, who won't be able to play in 2018, besides special-teamer Jon Bostic. Pittsburgh could still bring back Lawrence Timmons, but Bowman's probably a better player at this point.

New home: Pittsburgh Steelers

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23668225/best-fits-unsigned-2018-nfl-free-agents-landing-spots-dez-bryant-more

[86WARD]

Maybe the Steelers already have all they need at the “LB” and “Safety” positions...