Grade and React to the Picks!

[Mojouw]

If this is too much of a duplication of effort, please delete. But I thought it might be fun to have one place to react to the entire draft as a whole. Had some time to do some reading this morning and I keep getting a better feeling from the draft as an entire class. One of my favorite draft preview sites is the http://www.thehuddlereport.com/. The main evaluator there just seems to always have a different take the some of the other places. Also, they have a Value Board (where a player is projected to go in the draft) and a Talent Board (evaluation of projected talent regardless of # of players per round) - something I think is a really cool approach and have talked about it here before. Anyway, before this sounds like a paid promo - let me make my point.

Talent Grades for the Draft Picks:

Edmunds - no evaluation. 5th ranked safety and 74th ranked player overall (Only Derwin James went off the board ahead of him)
Washington - 2nd round talent
Rudolph - 1st round talent
Chuks - 2nd round talent
Samuels - 1st round talent
Allen - 3rd round talent
Frazier - not ranked

That paints a picture that while the first pick is still odd any way you slice it, the rest of the draft is a lot of value.

Now that is the positives from a general evaluation, from specifics, I just don't get this draft from a roster construction point of view. I mean they can only have 53 guys. Right now, all of the safeties on the roster do the same thing well - run downhill and hit people and then have "uh-oh" moments in downfield coverage. I mean at least we know they have a profile they are hunting for, but that is Wilcox/Berhe/Allen/Edmunds/Davis/Burnett that are all different versions of the same player. Again, the clearest path to playing time for the team's #1 pick is in specifc sub-packages and it may be possible that one of their Day 3 picks is better suited for that role. Huh? Additionally, either Allen or Edmunds could limit Cam Sutton's playing time. Moving forward, some of this makes sense if either Allen or Edmunds simply is a LBer, but so far the team insists that isn't the case. Traditionally, the team carries 4 safeties. I count 5 even with pushing Wilcox over-board. Do they steal a roster spot from somewhere else to keep all these guys?

For better or worse, the team's best ILB is Vince Williams. But they seem to be going towards alignments and packages that would minimize his snaps/role in 2018 and beyond. They seem to want to maximize the role of Bostic and Matakevich (someone needs to explain this to me. the next time he makes a play at or behind the LOS will be the first in the NFL) and supplement with hybrid ILB/S guys. No idea what this looks like and do not currently see how it is going to work. It would seem to put them into position to having to constantly respond (and do it correctly) to the offensive packages and alignments. Over time, the Steelers defense has been best when they could dictate to the opposing offense to a degree. Now it seems like they are going to run the defense like a hockey team, frantically trying to get that last change over the boards and on the ice.

On offense, I totally am on board with what they did. A developmental dancing bear at OT. Maybe he has the nasty inside him that they could never find in McCullers. Maybe he doesn't, but you have to pay to find out - fine. Washington, well his play speaks for itself. Rudolph is the kind of pick that either makes people into "QB Gurus" or gets people fired - when it happens in the first round. In the third, no one cares all that much 3 years from now if he bombs. But if he hits, it is a franchise saving move! Jaylen Samuels? I wonder if the same people who brought you the unexpected domination of Leveon Bell might be able to do some innovative things with this kid? No. That doesn't seem likely. Also, look at the pizza spider graphs - he is a slightly less explosive David Johnson. He might be a David Johnson level tester if he dropped a few LBs...I mean that late in the draft and there is a chance you get a guy who is somewhere on a Cris Cooley/Fred Jackson/David Johnson spectrum? Time to complain.

Still, I just can't wrap my head around where the defense is going. Not only in 2018, but beyond as well. Edmunds and Allen seem like picks that come with need to push Davis and Burnett off the roster in order for the picks to have full value.

[stillers4me]

The "experts" hate so they must have done something right. :heh:

We've seen to many 1st round busts over the years for me to have any confidence in "eggspurt" opinions

[Dwinsgames]

If this is too much of a duplication of effort, please delete. But I thought it might be fun to have one place to react to the entire draft as a whole. Had some time to do some reading this morning and I keep getting a better feeling from the draft as an entire class. One of my favorite draft preview sites is the http://www.thehuddlereport.com/. The main evaluator there just seems to always have a different take the some of the other places. Also, they have a Value Board (where a player is projected to go in the draft) and a Talent Board (evaluation of projected talent regardless of # of players per round) - something I think is a really cool approach and have talked about it here before. Anyway, before this sounds like a paid promo - let me make my point.

Talent Grades for the Draft Picks:

Edmunds - no evaluation. 5th ranked safety and 74th ranked player overall (Only Derwin James went off the board ahead of him)
Washington - 2nd round talent
Rudolph - 1st round talent
Chuks - 2nd round talent
Samuels - 1st round talent
Allen - 3rd round talent
Frazier - not ranked

That paints a picture that while the first pick is still odd any way you slice it, the rest of the draft is a lot of value.

Now that is the positives from a general evaluation, from specifics, I just don't get this draft from a roster construction point of view. I mean they can only have 53 guys. Right now, all of the safeties on the roster do the same thing well - run downhill and hit people and then have "uh-oh" moments in downfield coverage. I mean at least we know they have a profile they are hunting for, but that is Wilcox/Berhe/Allen/Edmunds/Davis/Burnett that are all different versions of the same player. Again, the clearest path to playing time for the team's #1 pick is in specifc sub-packages and it may be possible that one of their Day 3 picks is better suited for that role. Huh? Additionally, either Allen or Edmunds could limit Cam Sutton's playing time. Moving forward, some of this makes sense if either Allen or Edmunds simply is a LBer, but so far the team insists that isn't the case. Traditionally, the team carries 4 safeties. I count 5 even with pushing Wilcox over-board. Do they steal a roster spot from somewhere else to keep all these guys?

For better or worse, the team's best ILB is Vince Williams. But they seem to be going towards alignments and packages that would minimize his snaps/role in 2018 and beyond. They seem to want to maximize the role of Bostic and Matakevich (someone needs to explain this to me. the next time he makes a play at or behind the LOS will be the first in the NFL) and supplement with hybrid ILB/S guys. No idea what this looks like and do not currently see how it is going to work. It would seem to put them into position to having to constantly respond (and do it correctly) to the offensive packages and alignments. Over time, the Steelers defense has been best when they could dictate to the opposing offense to a degree. Now it seems like they are going to run the defense like a hockey team, frantically trying to get that last change over the boards and on the ice.

On offense, I totally am on board with what they did. A developmental dancing bear at OT. Maybe he has the nasty inside him that they could never find in McCullers. Maybe he doesn't, but you have to pay to find out - fine. Washington, well his play speaks for itself. Rudolph is the kind of pick that either makes people into "QB Gurus" or gets people fired - when it happens in the first round. In the third, no one cares all that much 3 years from now if he bombs. But if he hits, it is a franchise saving move! Jaylen Samuels? I wonder if the same people who brought you the unexpected domination of Leveon Bell might be able to do some innovative things with this kid? No. That doesn't seem likely. Also, look at the pizza spider graphs - he is a slightly less explosive David Johnson. He might be a David Johnson level tester if he dropped a few LBs...I mean that late in the draft and there is a chance you get a guy who is somewhere on a Cris Cooley/Fred Jackson/David Johnson spectrum? Time to complain.

Still, I just can't wrap my head around where the defense is going. Not only in 2018, but beyond as well. Edmunds and Allen seem like picks that come with need to push Davis and Burnett off the roster in order for the picks to have full value.

couple things ...

1) who gave the tag of " Samuels - 1st round talent" ?

2) Samuels is how you sneak that extra S on the roster .... he fills a RB room roster spot while he doubles down as a backup FB and TE potentially saving 2 roster spots filling 3 roster spots and only taking up 1 roster spot ... I can see the value in that even if he never amounts to anything other than a backup at 3 spots but believe he has a chance to be something more but we will have to wait and see on the latter

[pczach]

If this is too much of a duplication of effort, please delete. But I thought it might be fun to have one place to react to the entire draft as a whole. Had some time to do some reading this morning and I keep getting a better feeling from the draft as an entire class. One of my favorite draft preview sites is the http://www.thehuddlereport.com/. The main evaluator there just seems to always have a different take the some of the other places. Also, they have a Value Board (where a player is projected to go in the draft) and a Talent Board (evaluation of projected talent regardless of # of players per round) - something I think is a really cool approach and have talked about it here before. Anyway, before this sounds like a paid promo - let me make my point.

Talent Grades for the Draft Picks:

Edmunds - no evaluation. 5th ranked safety and 74th ranked player overall (Only Derwin James went off the board ahead of him)
Washington - 2nd round talent
Rudolph - 1st round talent
Chuks - 2nd round talent
Samuels - 1st round talent
Allen - 3rd round talent
Frazier - not ranked

That paints a picture that while the first pick is still odd any way you slice it, the rest of the draft is a lot of value.

Now that is the positives from a general evaluation, from specifics, I just don't get this draft from a roster construction point of view. I mean they can only have 53 guys. Right now, all of the safeties on the roster do the same thing well - run downhill and hit people and then have "uh-oh" moments in downfield coverage. I mean at least we know they have a profile they are hunting for, but that is Wilcox/Berhe/Allen/Edmunds/Davis/Burnett that are all different versions of the same player. Again, the clearest path to playing time for the team's #1 pick is in specifc sub-packages and it may be possible that one of their Day 3 picks is better suited for that role. Huh? Additionally, either Allen or Edmunds could limit Cam Sutton's playing time. Moving forward, some of this makes sense if either Allen or Edmunds simply is a LBer, but so far the team insists that isn't the case. Traditionally, the team carries 4 safeties. I count 5 even with pushing Wilcox over-board. Do they steal a roster spot from somewhere else to keep all these guys?

For better or worse, the team's best ILB is Vince Williams. But they seem to be going towards alignments and packages that would minimize his snaps/role in 2018 and beyond. They seem to want to maximize the role of Bostic and Matakevich (someone needs to explain this to me. the next time he makes a play at or behind the LOS will be the first in the NFL) and supplement with hybrid ILB/S guys. No idea what this looks like and do not currently see how it is going to work. It would seem to put them into position to having to constantly respond (and do it correctly) to the offensive packages and alignments. Over time, the Steelers defense has been best when they could dictate to the opposing offense to a degree. Now it seems like they are going to run the defense like a hockey team, frantically trying to get that last change over the boards and on the ice.

On offense, I totally am on board with what they did. A developmental dancing bear at OT. Maybe he has the nasty inside him that they could never find in McCullers. Maybe he doesn't, but you have to pay to find out - fine. Washington, well his play speaks for itself. Rudolph is the kind of pick that either makes people into "QB Gurus" or gets people fired - when it happens in the first round. In the third, no one cares all that much 3 years from now if he bombs. But if he hits, it is a franchise saving move! Jaylen Samuels? I wonder if the same people who brought you the unexpected domination of Leveon Bell might be able to do some innovative things with this kid? No. That doesn't seem likely. Also, look at the pizza spider graphs - he is a slightly less explosive David Johnson. He might be a David Johnson level tester if he dropped a few LBs...I mean that late in the draft and there is a chance you get a guy who is somewhere on a Cris Cooley/Fred Jackson/David Johnson spectrum? Time to complain.

Still, I just can't wrap my head around where the defense is going. Not only in 2018, but beyond as well. Edmunds and Allen seem like picks that come with need to push Davis and Burnett off the roster in order for the picks to have full value.


First, thanks for the effort on the thread. I have a couple comments without getting too deep into it.

You say that Vince Williams is the best ILB and that they are going towards alignments and packages that minimize his snaps. The fact of the matter is that Vince Williams has been coming off the field in nickel and dime packages because he is terrible in coverage, and they try not to leave him on the field because he is a liability. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. He's fine at stuffing the run from his Buck LB position in this defense. He has more limited coverage responsibilities, and even then, they get him off the field for a large number of snaps with the sub-packages because he won't hold up. He has a knack for finding his way to the QB when blitzing in this scheme, and he is an aggressive tackler and run stopper.

The Mack LB spot is where you need the versatile athlete that can be a four down player. That's why losing Ryan Shazier is such a huge blow to this defense. You had one guy that just stayed on the field and was capable of amazing athletic feats and could hold up against the run and the pass. Bostic appears to be the guy to attempt to replace Shazier. He's a good player, but he isn't blessed with the athleticism or speed of Ryan.

Based on the drafted talent and the talk of some new personnel packages, the team seems to have a different plan to utilize the multiple safeties. It seems they may be planning on taking both ILBs off the field in sub packages and replacing them with big, physical safeties. If this is the case, Williams and Bostic are 1 or 2 down players. On passing downs or long yardage situations, Williams and Bostic come off the field and they would have several personnel combinations of DL, LBs, and secondary players.

On the DL, in nickel and dime they've been playing with Heyward and Tuitt, and have Hargrave coming off the field. I can visualize where Hargrave will actually see more snaps to provide a more solid run-topping DL, and keeping LBs Watt and Dupree on the field.

Even though we don't yet know who will be playing where, this is where they could then play with 3 or 4 safeties and 2 or 3 CBs. 2 safeties would take the assignments of the two ILBs, and then behind them would be some combination of safeties and CB.

This could be an alignment that they play in a large percentage of the time.

I could be way off, but here's what I believe they are thinking about. I think the DL is fine. We all know what happened at the end of last season. Teams were stretching our defense with outside runs and the ILBs were not able to get to the ball carrier. The were too slow to make those plays, even when they weren't blocked in many cases. In the new sub-package, hard-hitting physical safeties will be in the ILB spots to make those plays on runs. They have the speed to get there.

It's obvious why it would be an advantage having that many S on the field in passing situations.

When in this scheme in passing situations, they would be able to have a lot of players near the line of scrimmage, and they can disguise who is coming. In these situations, let's say Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave are on the field. They would then be able to have either Watt or Dupree rush or drop if they want to bring 4, or they can blitz to create more pressure with as many as they want with more speed on the field, so the blitzes will get there faster and they can disguise them better.

Now, all that sounds great, but it means nothing if the defense isn't able to hold up against the interior run. It becomes even more important to hold up against the run on early downs to force passing situations. The added speed of the multiple safeties on the field should help eliminate the outside runs, but can become a liability on interior runs. There will be run blitzes built in and a ton of formations and variations to go with that, but I think that's what they're thinking.

This is no simple task making this work. You need some versatile, physical players that can hold up because teams will try to overpower a smaller, quicker defense. The defensive line will really need to hold up in third down and medium-short situations. I'm assuming they will play a much more aggressive style, but it is risky to have a small lineup on the field for a large percentage of the snaps. I'm going to guess that they would use more blitzing as well, but playing in a variation of nickel or dime nearly all the time is hard.

It sounds a little like the style the Colts used when Manning was there. Jump on teams early, get a lead, and then force them to play catchup against a defense set up to stop what they're trying to do. Rush the passer hard, take the running game out of the picture, hit the quarterback, and create turnovers.

They won't be reinventing the wheel here, but it is unusual to play personnel groups on first or second down that are generally designed to play on third downs. You need some special players that can hold up physically if they are undersized. They will basically be taking Shazier's spot off the field more often, and replacing that LB spot with a safety. Maybe play Hargrave more to eat blockers and protect the smaller players behind him.

That's my take on what they might be attempting to do based on what they did in the draft and what we have recently heard from Burns. I guess we'll see soon enough. We still don't know what additions will be made to the roster, but based on what they have now this seems like where they may be heading.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Now, all that sounds great, but it means nothing if the defense isn't able to hold up against the interior run. It becomes even more important to hold up against the run on early downs to force passing situations. The added speed of the multiple safeties on the field should help eliminate the outside runs, but can become a liability on interior runs.

I think that's the reason we drafted Josh Frazier and signed Greg Gilmore as a priority UDFA, both are big strong NT/DTs that are sturdy against the run and we can put one or both of them in front of our smaller hybrid safety/ILBs to protect them against interior runs.

[pczach]

I think that's the reason we drafted Josh Frazier and signed Greg Gilmore as a priority UDFA, both are big strong NT/DTs that are sturdy against the run and we can put one or both of them in front of our smaller hybrid safety/ILBs to protect them against interior runs.



I said I was going to not get too detailed.....and then I still posted War and Peace!

You are probably right there too. DL being good with depth is even more important because they need to hold up.

[DesertSteel]

I'm not reading anything about some big or increased role for Matakevich, as you infer. Could you provide some links where the coaches or GM point to this? I don't think it can be assumed at this point based on the roster and draft. There's still a long time before the season starts.

[Dwinsgames]

I honestly think we may run a ton of 3-3-5 as a base package with Edmunds being that extra DB

[tube517]

I said I was going to not get too detailed.....and then I still posted War and Peace!

You are probably right there too. DL being good with depth is even more important because they need to hold up.

Great write ups in this thread. (Just delete your 2nd sentence. :chuckle:)

[pczach]

Great write ups in this thread. (Just delete your 2nd sentence. :chuckle:)


Good idea! I was just going to say a couple things and keep it simple, and then.......oh well.:huh:


:sofunny:

[Mojouw]

Too much to quote, so I'll try and respond to all the cool things here.

DWins, the people behind the draft site I linked to gave Samuels a 1st round talent grade and like a 5-7 round value grade. It is a different take than most places I see and that is why I provided it for each Steelers pick. If you look at Samuels and see David Johnson or prime Fred Jackson (as the author at the linked site does) then there is your grade. If like most, you don't see that, then the grade comes off as ridiculous. Nevertheless, it provides a lot to talk about.

As to Matakevich and Desert Steel's comment -- here is February -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/colbert-says-matakevich-certainly-mix-inside-linebacker/ and here is this weekend -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/04/this-is-why-the-steelers-didnt-draft-an-inside-linebacker/

Colbert basically says the same thing each time. Here is the direct quote from this weekend:“Tyler Matakevich, he got hurt in the same quarter that Ryan did. Had he not gotten injured, we might have had a whole different discussion going on. Because Tyler is a very highly productive special teams player who hasn’t gotten to play. So between [Jon Bostic] and Tyler, we don’t know what we have in those two. Because Jon is new to us and Tyler will be in the rotation, the competition as well.”

Towards pczach's insightful post - I should've been clearer. VW is no great shakes in coverage, but he is the most reliable run stopper on the roster unless Bostic steps up. The rest of your post kind of anticipated where I was thinking - they are going to have to get clever and potentially a bit cute about constructing their sub-packages to not expose players to strong interior running. Think of the Jags or the Chiefs. It is 3rd and 5. The Steelers put their 27 safety alignment out there. What is to stop Fournette and Hunt from just wandering through the middle of the defense for 6 yards? I realize I am being totally ridiculous, but I am curious to see the roles carved out for all these guys. Particularly the players that seem to have duplicate skill-sets.

I actually have no problem with them taking the defense in the direction it seems a lot of us are thinking they are going. I just have a hard time getting to the value for some of the players on the roster then. It seems to me that with Edmunds coming in the first round and not being a full time LBer, then Burnett or Davis has to move off the roster in 2019. That seems to be an odd place to put yourself as a team with a recent 2nd round pick and your prized FA.

[DesertSteel]

Colbert is saying that he doesn't know what he has in Matakevich and that he's in the competition. Sounds fine to me. Same for a UDFA coming into camp.

- - - Updated - - -

But as to the thread topic: Seems like we're going to create a hybrid position just because there weren't any humans available that can do what Shazier did.

[Cyphon25]

I already did a value thread for the first and second days and graded it out to a D and a couple of days removed I stand by that. That isn't to say these guys wont be great players but I am talking purely about perceived value given the information we have.

Day 3 was better but day 3 is also the least valuable day of the draft even when you get it right. So it is hard to come out of this draft feeling anything more than 'meh' about the overall picture. It isn't all doom and gloom or anything, just think they could have done better to get more value out of it.

[pczach]

I honestly think we may run a ton of 3-3-5 as a base package with Edmunds being that extra DB


In that personnel set, I assume you mean having Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave on DL. Who do you see as the three LBs in this set?

[hawaiiansteeler]

I actually have no problem with them taking the defense in the direction it seems a lot of us are thinking they are going. I just have a hard time getting to the value for some of the players on the roster then. It seems to me that with Edmunds coming in the first round and not being a full time LBer, then Burnett or Davis has to move off the roster in 2019. That seems to be an odd place to put yourself as a team with a recent 2nd round pick and your prized FA.

I think we're going to see Burnett, Davis and Edmunds all on the field together at the same time a lot...

[Dwinsgames]

I think we're going to see Burnett, Davis and Edmunds all on the field together at the same time a lot...


posted this on twitter earlier ... think we play 3-3-5 a TON

3 down lineman 3 linebacker 3 safeties and 2 corners

also think we MIGHT see 4 safeties on the field in 3-3-5 with just 2 linebackers

[teegre]

This team lacked sure tackling. The ILBs available were either a) not as good at tackling, or b) not fast enough.

Edmunds is a sure tackler.
Allen is a sure tackler.

SUMMATION:
Edmunds & Allen can been viewed as fast, but small, ILBs... who make tackles.

[Dwinsgames]

In that personnel set, I assume you mean having Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave on DL. Who do you see as the three LBs in this set?

Watt ,VW ,Dupree

Burnett , Edmunds , Davis ,Haden ( Sutton/Hilton )

[GBMelBlount]

This team lacked sure tackling. The ILBs available were either a) not as good at tackling, or b) not fast enough.

Edmunds is a sure tackler.
Allen is a sure tackler.

SUMMATION:
Edmunds & Allen can been viewed as fast, but small, ILBs... who make tackles.

I think we have a lot of talented defensive "puzzle pieces"

and how this all pans out for our defense

largely depends on how well we utilize all of this talent.

I think this defense has a LOT of potential.

However, we may not even know until the end of next season or beyond.

I just hope we have everything figured out by the playoffs.

[DesertSteel]

This team lacked sure tackling. The ILBs available were either a) not as good at tackling, or b) not fast enough.

Edmunds is a sure tackler.
Allen is a sure tackler.

SUMMATION:
Edmunds & Allen can been viewed as fast, but small, ILBs... who make tackles.
Is Allen fast? I really didn't watch much PSU football. He didn't run the 40 at the combine so what's his playing speed?

[hawaiiansteeler]

posted this on twitter earlier ... think we play 3-3-5 a TON

3 down lineman 3 linebacker 3 safeties and 2 corners

also think we MIGHT see 4 safeties on the field in 3-3-5 with just 2 linebackers

saw this article about possible Steelers defensive formations and who would be on the field:

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/04/30/updated-steelers-defensive-roster-predictions-after-the-draft/

[Cyphon25]

Is Allen fast? I really didn't watch much PSU football. He didn't run the 40 at the combine so what's his playing speed?

Well 40 doesn't really determine play speed anyway. I mean obviously if you didn't watch PSU you still need an answer lol. I didn't watch either but thought I would jump in about the 40. It is a mostly irrelevant test number.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Is Allen fast? I really didn't watch much PSU football. He didn't run the 40 at the combine so what's his playing speed?

Draft Scout lists Allen's 40 time at 4.63

https://www.themaven.net/nfldraftscout/position-rankings/

[DesertSteel]

Well 40 doesn't really determine play speed anyway. I mean obviously if you didn't watch PSU you still need an answer lol. I didn't watch either but thought I would jump in about the 40. It is a mostly irrelevant test number.
I wouldn't say that it's mostly irrelevant since all of the actual professionals use it in their evaluations. Playing speed is most important, but all I know is that a guy who runs 4.8 in shorts isn't going to run 4.6 in pads :).

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3LBx3sAKtY

[Born2Steel]

I have had doubts about this draft class. Mainly because it didn't go anywhere near how I expected it to go. However, given time to digest and take a second look at players available to us at each pick, yes there are different moves I personally would have probably taken, and the expectation of each pick to make the 53.

1. Terrell Edmunds. This was a shock to me. I know a lot of info has come out since Thursday saying that many teams had a round 1-2 grade on Edmunds. I did not hear/read any of that talk before the draft began though, and the pick left me a bit stunned. What I like is his athleticism and willingness to tackle and play physical tough football. I think this guy can stay on the field every down for this defense. "B" because he is not a true ILB, but also because he was maybe the BPA that can play ILB.

2. James Washington. I really like this pick. Go ahead and score an "A" here. Proven WR that knows the route tree and runs it well. IMO, an instant upgrade at the #3 WR spot.

3. Mason Rudolph. Not yet a huge fan of Mason Rudolph. But this is one of my favorite draft picks I recent history. First this pick came from the MB trade. A trade that got rid of the headache that is MB and made him the Raider's headache. This trade also makes the Washington at 2 pick more attractive to me. Then, a trade with the Seahawks moves us in front of the Bengals, who were rumored to be looking to select Rudolph with their next pick. So we stole him from the Bengals, that makes me smile. Another draft rumor has it that Belichick was seriously considering Rudolph. Belichick is a Bill Parcells protégé and according to the 'Parcells 7 traits of a draftable QB', Rudolph checked every box. So even if Mason Rudolph never becomes that franchise QB, this pick shipped a headache to the Raiders, stole a pick from the Bengals, and took Belichick's favorite QB in the draft. Plus he was the highest rated value on the board. "A"

4. "Chuk". I don't know. I know nothing about his game. Can he supplant Hawkins or Feiler and earn a spot on the 53? I don't know. "D"

5. Marcus Allen. Not a big fan of this pick here. I have absolutely nothing against Marcus Allen as a player. However, we have a bit of a crowding problem in the secondary at this point, and still no LBs. Genard Avery would have been my pick here. A LB that plays well off the ball in space as well as an efficient pass rusher. Avery works inside or outside. A safety pick here is just redundant, IMO. "D"

6. Jay Samuels(SAK). Not usually a fan of 'Gimmick players'. That said, after looking over some film and highlights on Samuels I think he is much more than a gimmick player. I believe he can be the heir apparent to Bell and at a super value at that. This kid could be the RB version of AB. looking very much forward to watching this guy in the pre-season. "A"

7. Josh Frazier. A monster DL with some Bama attitude to fit into a 6 man DL rotation in the middle. Love this pick here. Give another "A" for value and potential.

[Cyphon25]

I wouldn't say that it's mostly irrelevant since all of the actual professionals use it in their evaluations. Playing speed is most important, but all I know is that a guy who runs 4.8 in shorts isn't going to run 4.6 in pads :).

Honestly I think they use the 40 time more to determine the 20 yard split. I mean how many times in a football game do guys even run 40 yards? A guy who runs a 4.8 in shorts is perfectly fine at say, ILB if he is good side to side and what not. It is way more important to have short area quickness and athelticism than it is to be straight line fast.

[DesertSteel]

Honestly I think they use the 40 time more to determine the 20 yard split. I mean how many times in a football game do guys even run 40 yards? A guy who runs a 4.8 in shorts is perfectly fine at say, ILB if he is good side to side and what not. It is way more important to have short area quickness and athelticism than it is to be straight line fast.
Whatever they use it for, they don't see it as having little value. A guy who runs 4.8 in shorts isn't going to do what Shazier did at 4.3. That much I know.

[Cyphon25]

Whatever they use it for, they don't see it as having little value. A guy who runs 4.8 in shorts isn't going to do what Shazier did at 4.3. That much I know.

True but that is a very wide range. You are taking the fastest 40 timed ILB ever verse a pretty slow 40 time. But if you look at some of the guys who are considered top ILB's in the league you can see where there are still great ones (some better than Shazier in fact) that don't run close to that.

Sean Lee ran a 4.7
Vontaze Burfict ran a 5.0
Luke Keuchly ran a 4.58
Navorro Bowman ran a 4.7

And there ar emore examples

Point is, 40 time doesn't tell you a whole lot big picture. The most value it has is probably with a deep threat WR and even then there are factors like hands and route rounning that might outweigh it though I bet some teams will take the speed over hands or route running depending.

[DesertSteel]

True but that is a very wide range. You are taking the fastest 40 timed ILB ever verse a pretty slow 40 time. But if you look at some of the guys who are considered top ILB's in the league you can see where there are still great ones (some better than Shazier in fact) that don't run close to that.

Sean Lee ran a 4.7
Vontaze Burfict ran a 5.0
Luke Keuchly ran a 4.58
Navorro Bowman ran a 4.7

And there ar emore examples

Point is, 40 time doesn't tell you a whole lot big picture. The most value it has is probably with a deep threat WR and even then there are factors like hands and route rounning that might outweigh it though I bet some teams will take the speed over hands or route running depending.
I don't disagree with the things you're saying, other than the premise that the time has very little value. For one thing, everyone on your list but Burfict ran acceptable times. And Burfict doesn't play like Shazier. NFL personnel execs are the ones who dictate the testing being done. If they thought it was of little value, they would de-emphasize it.