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View Full Version : Draft Recap: Is the value there?



Cyphon25
04-28-2018, 05:04 AM
So after sleeping on it last night I was able to clear up my thoughts on the picks to this point and leave any emotion out of processing my perception of these picks. I want to be clear early on that I am not one of the knee jerk types that is fire Tomlin or fire Colbert guy but I am always willing to have tough questions and discussions even when things are going good and willing to give a fair shake when things are bad. With that being said, I think what is bothering me most about this draft is that I am really struggling to find the value. I'll lay out why with each pick individually and obviously you are free to disagree but I think I am being reasonable.

Terrell Edmunds - I like the kid. I watched the intro interview and he is well spoken, gives off positive vibes and seems like he is going to be incredibly easy to like as a Steeler. I have watched only a little tape and there are some traits there that look Steeler-ish. He is a good, tough tackler who is athletic and while there are some coverage questions he doesn't look like a major liability in that area. I think he has a good football IQ and wont leave you cussing at the TV too often. With all of that being said I am struggling with the idea that the Steelers maximized their value here. I have no doubt they loved Terrell Edmunds and that he was their highest rated safety of those who remained. However, accounting for when the other safeties were taken I can't convince myself that they had him rated so much higher that they couldn't have gotten better value out of Bates, Reid, or Harrison. Bates went 6 picks before them in the 2nd so we can kind of cross him off though it is fair to point out that it would have been a relatively cheap trade up if he was their guy. Reid went after even lasting into the 3rd round along with Harrison. So there is the rub for me. Was edmunds so much higher that Reid wouldn't have felt like an absolute Steeler early in the third? This is a guy who a lot of people (myself included) had a potential first round grade on or early second.

I know one of the counter arguments is going to be that you never know where you can get a guy but one defense of the front office is always going to be that they know more than us. So you can't convince me that they didn't have an idea Reid would fall to them in the 2nd.


James Washington - Full disclosure have absolutely no read on the WR class. I didn't watch them because I am not a draft guru and I care more about the defensive guys so those are where I spent my little bit of film time. I am fine with the position and even moreso after the Bryant trade on Thursday. I am sure I will love James Washington and I certainly trust the Steelers track record with WR's. BUT, some part of me still feels like you can get a number 3 receiver later in the draft. I understand the idea that if you love a guy you go get them but even if you are in love you go into this knowing he is no more than a number 3 given the current roster construction. The Steelers are fantastic at getting receivers so I just can't get past the idea that there were going to be good number 3 options later in the draft that they could have identified and drafted.


Mason Rudolph - Oddly enough I had no desire to get a QB and this is the pick I feel most comfortable with as far as value goes as we sit here today. This is a guy who was debated as a first round choice and even mocked to the Steelers in that round. So to get him in the third feels like a Russell Wilson level steal if he ultimately pans out. This is another case where I haven't watched him to know how I feel about his talent level so I am talking strictly position and potential value of said position. Where this pick drives me nuts is that it makes the Dobbs pick last year look like a complete and utter waste. To present the counter argument myself you can say "well Cyphon you beautiful beast, they didn't know there would be a QB they liked in this draft and would get value on". True. However, they did know that they were still going to be shopping for one after Dobbs so why pick him in the first place if your belief in him was so fickle? Good grief that sounds stupid to me.


OT - I can't remember or spell his name so sorry for that but for now he is just "OT". I myself made the argument just recently that in the 2019 draft Tackle was going to be a high priority. Gilbert and Villy are no spring chickens and Gilbert is oft injured and recently had a suspension. I feel like after the Hubbard departure the Steelers were going to need to spend fairly high in the 2019 draft to protect against him because we don't truly know what we have in Hawkins. So the position choice here doesn't necessarily shock me, but it definitely feels too soon and wrong. I say it feels wrong because you can't really make the argument that we needed depth while also calling this guy a project. Projects typically aren't and shouldn't be backups. They are practice squad guys or 3rd on the depth chart. So he doesn't actually offer any true depth at this point and if they felt like they needed that it either needed to be a higher pick or addressed in FA. I don't want to hear the word project attached to a pick until at least the 4th round and even then I would be more comfortable with it in the 5th.


Anyway, those are my thoughts on the draft to this point. It isn't a knock on the players and I am really not even using it to knock the Steelers, I just wanted to present this view of the draft from a (what I think is) reasonable perspective on perceived value. For me if I had to grade it as I sit here this morning the value grade feels like a D

Steeldude
04-28-2018, 05:51 AM
1. Addresses a need. Big and strong. I hope he can cover.

2. I don't see this guy being as big of a deep threat as he was in college. Short to medium routes will be his biggest issue. He is strong though.

3. No need to draft a QB when BR will probably play 3 more seasons. Is this guy really a franchise QB?

4. I'm fine with the pick. I thought they would have taken a stab at ILB or OLB since they lack in both areas.

teegre
04-28-2018, 06:22 AM
1. I wanted Reid, but once upon a time, I also Matt Elam.

2. I can’t state enough that other players had faster 40 times, but Washington maintained his speed when the pads were put on (wherein, he was actually one of the fastest receivers in this draft). If we are replacing Bryant (a speed guy), then we succeeded. Bryant is taller, but Washington’s arms make his reach equivalent to a player who is about 6’3”.

3. At 28, no. At 76, sure. If you’re going to replace your franchise QB, and you do not have a early R1 pick, then you draft a QB in every single draft, and hope to strike gold. Dobbs in 2017. Rudolph in 2018. We have two more drafts to find that guy in this manner.

4. I felt that O-line would be addressed. When I think of those O-lines from 2006-2009, I shiver. Mayock loved the pick, but admitted that it’s a boom-or-bust type of pick. Well, Munchak is the reason I’m confident in this pick.

NO ILB???
After LVE and Evans got snatched up, and then Darius Leonard went so early in R2, I do indeed think that the value at 60 & 76 was not at ILB. But, at 92... well... Chukes has better be darn good (because it is 40+ picks until we have a shot at drafting an ILB). Then again, I count about 9 ILBs that could be drafted in R5-R6 (e.g. Josey Jewell)... so, one should be there.

Terrapinstation
04-28-2018, 06:40 AM
Pretty much where I'm at Cyphon.

I just don't see any immediate impact players. It feels like this draft is for 2-4 years down the road. That's fine, but our window for a SB is really now. One of these guys will be holding a clipboard this year, and the other may be on the practice squad.

I really thought when they got the pick for Bryant, they'd use it to trade up to get a LB. Maybe they tried.

stillers4me
04-28-2018, 06:42 AM
OT - I can't remember or spell his name so sorry for that but for now he is just "OT".

Munchak called him "Chuks' :heh:


3. No need to draft a QB when BR will probably play 3 more seasons.

Until he gets hurt and we are left with Jones and Dobbs.

stillers4me
04-28-2018, 06:47 AM
I really thought when they got the pick for Bryant, they'd use it to trade up to get a LB. Maybe they tried.

Rumor is they did try but couldn't get a deal done. Sometimes, the cards just don't fall into place.

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st33lersguy
04-28-2018, 07:31 AM
After TJ Watt and Vince Williams, the linebacking corp was a dumpster fire heading into free agency. And their only solution really is a role player in Jon Bostic and to have their rookie safety play LB a fraction of the time? I really hope that's not what they think

teegre
04-28-2018, 07:43 AM
After TJ Watt and Vince Williams, the linebacking corp was a dumpster fire heading into free agency. And their only solution really is a role player in Jon Bostic and to have their rookie safety play LB a fraction of the time? I really hope that's not what they think

The Steelers were in nickel & dime 70% of the time.

Artie Burns has said that they’re going to unveil a package called “SEVEN” where there are 7 DBs on the field at once.

SUMMATION:
Maybe the need for ILB has lessened, since the ILB is the second non-DB-player (after NT) to come off of the field in those alignments.

Furthermore, last season (after Shazier’s injury), both ILBs routinely came off of the field, and Watt moved to ILB for those alignments.

DesertSteel
04-28-2018, 09:36 AM
I'm glad we still have Cowher's players to compensate for all this futility.

Mojouw
04-28-2018, 09:54 AM
The Steelers were in nickel & dime 70% of the time.

Artie Burns has said that they’re going to unveil a package called “SEVEN” where there are 7 DBs on the field at once.

SUMMATION:
Maybe the need for ILB has lessened, since the ILB is the second non-DB-player (after NT) to come off of the field in those alignments.

Furthermore, last season (after Shazier’s injury), both ILBs routinely came off of the field, and Watt moved to ILB for those alignments.

Wonder what that package looks like? Do you go 3 down linemen and Watt with Haden/Burns/Burnett/Davis/Hilton/Sutton/Edmunds? Or do you take Hargrave off the field and put Dupree in to "rush the passer"?

teegre
04-28-2018, 09:59 AM
Wonder what that package looks like? Do you go 3 down linemen and Watt with Haden/Burns/Burnett/Davis/Hilton/Sutton/Edmunds? Or do you take Hargrave off the field and put Dupree in to "rush the passer"?

Well, we know that Watt & Heyward will not come off of the field.

That leaves two two other players... I would assume Tuitt & Dupree.

pczach
04-28-2018, 10:03 AM
I'm glad we still have Cowher's player to compensate for all this futility.


Corrected for accuracy.:chuckle:

Mojouw
04-28-2018, 10:36 AM
Well, we know that Watt & Heyward will not come off of the field.

That leaves two two other players... I would assume Tuitt & Dupree.

I would think that you would have to go with the starting DL + Watt + 7 DBs just so you don't get run off the field. So Bostic, VW, and Dupree come off?

teegre
04-28-2018, 11:40 AM
I would think that you would have to go with the starting DL + Watt + 7 DBs just so you don't get run off the field. So Bostic, VW, and Dupree come off?

A line of:
Watt - Heyward - Tuitt - Dupree

Watt & Dupree have the option of dropping back.

Burnett/Davis & Edmunds play as ILBs.

Fours CBs... and a deep safety.

Mojouw
04-28-2018, 11:43 AM
A line of:
Watt - Heyward - Tuitt - Dupree

Watt & Dupree have the option of dropping back.

Burnett/Davis & Edmunds play as ILBs.

Fours CBs... and a deep safety.

OKAY! That makes a ton of sense.

st33lersguy
04-28-2018, 12:04 PM
This draft really doesn't set them up to help win in 2018, this is more geared towards the future. I like Edmunds and think he could be a real dynamic player and alpha dog and they will probably find a way to get him snaps, but he is still raw and probably won't make the real impact needed to improve the defense until 2019/2020. Washington will probably make the most impact, but it's going to be rather modest at best behind AB and Juju. Rudolph of course will be behind Ben and will need at least a couple years of work anyway, and then of course there is the long named raw OT firmly planted behind Gilbert and AV