Harrison retires Part 2

[Moose]

Who cares ? I sure in the hell don't. What's up Jimmy, can't you find any other team to play with this year ? Maybe Brown's will take you ? As far as I'm concerned you still have that CAT smell on you from the bungholes. I lost any respect and concern for you, especially the cheater trip you took. I sure in the hell hope the Steeler's don't sponsor you as a team to 'retire' from. You last played with the cheaters....so wear their attire ! I'm done with you as a Steeler.....sure in the hell glad I don't own any of your crap.

[AtlantaDan]

Who cares ? I sure in the hell don't. What's up Jimmy, can't you find any other team to play with this year ? Maybe Brown's will take you ? As far as I'm concerned you still have that CAT smell on you from the bungholes. I lost any respect and concern for you, especially the cheater trip you took. I sure in the hell hope the Steeler's don't sponsor you as a team to 'retire' from. You last played with the cheaters....so wear their attire ! I'm done with you as a Steeler.....sure in the hell glad I don't own any of your crap.

It's a business - Harrison wanted to play and he acted out to get released after it was clear he no longer could handle the changed responsibilities of a Steelers OLB - not admirable behavior but lots of what goes down on and off the field in the NFL (including by other past & present Steelers) is not admirable

If he would have won another ring out of the deal he would have been regarded as having played his cards brilliantly

Fans forgave Franco for going to the Seahawks after he was released as a result of a contract dispute - I expect most Steelers fans will get over Harrison going to the Pats since the Pats lost the Super Bowl with Harrison on the team

[st33lersguy]

Hope getting torched by Nick Foles in a Super Bowl was worth tainting your legacy over

[DesertSteel]

It's a business - Harrison wanted to play and he acted out to get released after it was clear he no longer could handle the changed responsibilities of a Steelers OLB - not admirable behavior but lots of what goes down on and off the field in the NFL (including by other past & present Steelers) is not admirable

If he would have won another ring out of the deal he would have been regarded as having played his cards brilliantly

Fans forgave Franco for going to the Seahawks after he was released as a result of a contract dispute - I expect most Steelers fans will get over Harrison going to the Pats since the Pats lost the Super Bowl with Harrison on the team
Which player from the past would leave the stadium on game day? I don't care that he went to the Pats; it's how he got there that I won't forget.

[zulater]

Already forgiven as far as I'm concerned. It's like virtually any marriage that stands the course of time. There's going to be bumps in the road. People aren't perfect. And pride and vanity can make the best of us look like a-holes at times. But in the end if the good far outweighs the bad and there was anything there to begin with you forgive and move past it. James if officially back in the Steeler family imo. I'm pretty sure most of his former teammates feel the same or will in short time. If you're gonna hate then you have to dismiss a lot of great football.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Who cares ? I sure in the hell don't. What's up Jimmy, can't you find any other team to play with this year ? Maybe Brown's will take you ? As far as I'm concerned you still have that CAT smell on you from the bungholes. I lost any respect and concern for you, especially the cheater trip you took. I sure in the hell hope the Steeler's don't sponsor you as a team to 'retire' from. You last played with the cheaters....so wear their attire ! I'm done with you as a Steeler.....sure in the hell glad I don't own any of your crap.

You cared enough to make this thread. So many Yinzers that are butt hurt about James playing for another team. Get over it. :deadhorse:

[Moose]

You cared enough to make this thread. So many Yinzers that are butt hurt about James playing for another team. Get over it. :deadhorse:

Just making a statement .... don't respond if you don't want.....I could give shit ! Get over it.

[86WARD]

Already forgiven as far as I'm concerned. It's like virtually any marriage that stands the course of time. There's going to be bumps in the road. People aren't perfect. And pride and vanity can make the best of us look like a-holes at times. But in the end if the good far outweighs the bad and there was anything there to begin with you forgive and move past it. James if officially back in the Steeler family imo. I'm pretty sure most of his former teammates feel the same or will in short time. If you're gonna hate then you have to dismiss a lot of great football.

This.

Get over it. The guys is a Steeler Great and there’s nothing you can argue that makes it any different.

[Mojouw]

Such Hawt Taaaakes. Like him or not, still gonna go down as a franchise great.

[st33lersguy]

It's a business - Harrison wanted to play and he acted out to get released after it was clear he no longer could handle the changed responsibilities of a Steelers OLB - not admirable behavior but lots of what goes down on and off the field in the NFL (including by other past & present Steelers) is not admirable

If he would have won another ring out of the deal he would have been regarded as having played his cards brilliantly

Fans forgave Franco for going to the Seahawks after he was released as a result of a contract dispute - I expect most Steelers fans will get over Harrison going to the Pats since the Pats lost the Super Bowl with Harrison on the team

Franco never left the stadium right before or during a game

[AtlantaDan]

Which player from the past would leave the stadium on game day? I don't care that he went to the Pats; it's how he got there that I won't forget.

Mendenhall would not even show up

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Mendenhall was a no-show (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-rb-mendenhall-suspended-for-one-game-665949/) for the game, failing to arrive after being told he wouldn’t be on the active game-day roster.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/mendenhall-didnt-show-up-for-sundays-game/

My point is fans forgive and/or forget for good to great players - which 70s player shot up a police helicopter and was a fan favorite ?

Which current player escaped being indicted for sexual assault in Georgia and now is idolized by most of the fan base?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY

[st33lersguy]

To me Harrison belongs in a similar class as T.O., yes a great player with a long productive but also a selfish me first jackass who engaged in me-first behavior that cannot be overlooked. Harrison may not have engaged in selfish antics for as long as T.O. did, but nevertheless the crap he pulled puts a permanent black eye on his legacy and the stuff he did on the field won't overshadow it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApudatXeFpA

[zulater]

Mendenhall would not even show up

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Mendenhall was a no-show (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-rb-mendenhall-suspended-for-one-game-665949/) for the game, failing to arrive after being told he wouldn’t be on the active game-day roster.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/mendenhall-didnt-show-up-for-sundays-game/

My point is fans forgive and/or forget for good to great players - which 70s player shot up a police helicopter and was a fan favorite ?

Which current player escaped being indicted for sexual assault in Georgia and now is idolized by most of the fan base?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY

He wasn't indicted because the evidence didn't support such an action, therefore he's owed a presumption of innocence. I'm with your overall point but if in my heart of hearts I thought Ben was an actual rapist I couldn't support him or the team until he was gone. After reading everything there was to read on the case I'm quite comfortable that Ben's only guilt was indiscretion and callousness during and after the fact.

- - - Updated - - -


To me Harrison belongs in a similar class as T.O., yes a great player with a long productive but also a selfish me first jackass who engaged in me-first behavior that cannot be overlooked. Harrison may not have engaged in selfish antics for as long as T.O. did, but nevertheless the crap he pulled puts a permanent black eye on his legacy and the stuff he did on the field won't overshadow it.

Yeah somehow I don't think the longest interception return for a TD in SB history will be forgotten by most of us anytime soon. :coffee:

[AtlantaDan]

He wasn't indicted because the evidence didn't support such an action, therefore he's owed a presumption of innocence. I'm with your overall point but if in my heart of hearts I thought Ben was an actual rapist I couldn't support him or the team until he was gone. After reading everything there was to read on the case I'm quite comfortable that Ben's only guilt was indiscretion and callousness during and after the fact.


Not trying to reargue the Milledgeville cluster, but we respectfully disagree - what happened and what could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to secure a criminal conviction are different standards. The case went away after the alleged victim retained Atlanta plaintiff's attorney Lee Parks, who specializes in civil sexual harassment cases, not criminal law, and quit cooperating with the prosecutors. Draw your own conclusions if a hefty civil settlement had any impact on how that turned out.

Also did not hurt that Ben could afford to be represented by Eddie Garland and Don Samuels, the attorneys who represented Ray Lewis (who also eventually got a pass with most Ravens fans for his alleged misconduct) during his run in with Georgia prosecutors.

But even without an indictment Ben was dragged at the time for being a jackass since he had entered the NFL

https://vault-cdn.si.com/SI_ISSUE_IMAGES/Sports%20Illustrated/2010/05/20100510/Sports_Illustrated_1006812_20100510-001-775.jpg

An NFL superstar's repulsive behavior, the ultimate expression of athletic entitlement run amok, has forced even the most diehard fans to question their team and their football faith

https://www.si.com/vault/2010/05/10/105935652/the-hangover-roethlisberger

Even if Ben's version of events was totally correct his behavior was much worse than what Harrison allegedly did in 2017. Most fans got over it just as they will with Harrison.

[Moose]

[QUOTE=zulater
Yeah somehow I don't think the longest interception return for a TD in SB history will be forgotten by most of us anytime soon.[/QUOTE]

I do agree the TD play was great, as was Ben's tackle after Bus fumble, etc., etc., but I still don't consider Harrison a 'franchise great'. Sorry.

[zulater]

Not trying to reargue the Milledgeville cluster, but we respectfully disagree - what happened and what could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to secure a criminal conviction are different standards. The case went away after the alleged victim retained Atlanta plaintiff's attorney Lee Parks, who specializes in civil sexual harassment cases, not criminal law, and quit cooperating with the prosecutors. Draw your own conclusions if a hefty civil settlement had any impact on how that turned out.

Also did not hurt that Ben could afford to be represented by Eddie Garland and Don Samuels, the attorneys who represented Ray Lewis (who also eventually got a pass with most Ravens fans for his alleged misconduct) during his run in with Georgia prosecutors.

But even without an indictment Ben was dragged at the time for being a jackass since he had entered the NFL

https://vault-cdn.si.com/SI_ISSUE_IMAGES/Sports%20Illustrated/2010/05/20100510/Sports_Illustrated_1006812_20100510-001-775.jpg

An NFL superstar's repulsive behavior, the ultimate expression of athletic entitlement run amok, has forced even the most diehard fans to question their team and their football faith

https://www.si.com/vault/2010/05/10/105935652/the-hangover-roethlisberger

Even if Ben's version of events was totally correct his behavior was much worse than what Harrison allegedly did in 2017. Most fans got over it just as they will with Harrison.


If you have the money you settle to put it behind you guilty or not. If that case goes to a court room even if Ben wins he loses. I read her story. It was inconsistent and didn't make a case for rape in any way.

Rapist's by nature continue to seek and assault. I'm confident Ben will never see such an allegation again. Because it's not who he is or ever was.

[86WARD]

I do agree the TD play was great, as was Ben's tackle after Bus fumble, etc., etc., but I still don't consider Harrison a 'franchise great'. Sorry.

I respectfully disagree. He pretty much contributed majorly to a Super Bowl Title. He leads the franchise in sacks. He showed up on game day every single week up until he felt he was being screwed with. I am in the camp that how he handled it was bullshit and could’ve been handled much better but understand the frustration that was there. End story, he handled it poorly. Doesn’t take away his accomplishments on the field or what he’s done in a Steelers uniform. There were games that he pretty much handled the offense of the opposing team on his own. IMO, he’s a Steeler great.

[86WARD]

Also there was the time he tackled the Browns fan...lol

[Mojouw]

I kinda figure the all-time Steeler sack leader, the dude who is 8th in tackles, and the author of multiple game altering plays along with one of the most iconic SB moments ever kinda deserves to go down as a "Franchise Great".

No one has to like the dude and I am not shocked that a player who fed on emotion and used the "no one believes I can play" mindset as motivation for his entire career ended up lashing out as his career wound to a close.

But to deny that Harrison is one of the best players to ever line up at OLB for the Pittsburgh Steelers is a little bit of a stretch.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I respectfully disagree. He pretty much contributed majorly to a Super Bowl Title. He leads the franchise in sacks. He showed up on game day every single week up until he felt he was being screwed with. I am in the camp that how he handled it was bullshit and could’ve been handled much better but understand the frustration that was there. End story, he handled it poorly. Doesn’t take away his accomplishments on the field or what he’s done in a Steelers uniform. There were games that he pretty much handled the offense of the opposing team on his own. IMO, he’s a Steeler great.

Agree 100%

[BlackAndGold]

One of the best players to play in a Steelers jersey.

Just sucks he became a snake at the end.

https://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/james_harrison.jpg?w=640

[steelcityboyz]

I agree with Atlanta.. It's a business. Did I like him going to the cheats? hell no, did I like him acting like a jackass because he wasn't getting playing time, nope not at all. But Deebo will always be one of the greatest Linebackers to wear the black and gold.

[ALLD]

Harrison scored the greatest TD in SB history. Although his behavior and choices were often controversial, James Harrison was a great Steeler.

[86WARD]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180416/b336c8e8587a23219ede646e88eb8137.jpg

[fansince'76]

To me Harrison belongs in a similar class as T.O., yes a great player with a long productive but also a selfish me first jackass who engaged in me-first behavior that cannot be overlooked. Harrison may not have engaged in selfish antics for as long as T.O. did, but nevertheless the crap he pulled puts a permanent black eye on his legacy and the stuff he did on the field won't overshadow it.

I gotta respectfully disagree. T.O. divided and destroyed locker rooms everywhere he went for the duration of his career. I don't consider his and Harrison's cases to be even remotely similar, honestly.


I respectfully disagree. He pretty much contributed majorly to a Super Bowl Title. He leads the franchise in sacks. He showed up on game day every single week up until he felt he was being screwed with. I am in the camp that how he handled it was bullshit and could’ve been handled much better but understand the frustration that was there. End story, he handled it poorly. Doesn’t take away his accomplishments on the field or what he’s done in a Steelers uniform. There were games that he pretty much handled the offense of the opposing team on his own. IMO, he’s a Steeler great.

This.

[teegre]

If I could have Harrison’s entire career all over again (warts & all), I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Sure, it ended badly, but it’s kind of like Indian food: great.. until the very end part. :lol:

[86WARD]

I gotta respectfully disagree. T.O. divided and destroyed locker rooms everywhere he went for the duration of his career. I don't consider his and Harrison's cases to be even remotely similar, honestly.


Where did TO divide and destroy locker rooms? Even McNabb, who TO and he had his differences, praised TO. Sure the guy was an asshole at times, but he didn’t destroy anything in San Fran or Dallas and it’s questionable that he actually did in Philadelphia after McNabb later praises the guy.

Regardless, I agree...Harrison and Owens situations aren’t remotely close.

[Iron Steeler]

Wounds are still fresh. But he is the alltime leading sackrr for us. And won us a Superbowl. He playrd his best football for us. He will be forgiven in time.

But right now I find it hard visualizing him getting a standing ovation in Heinz field if he came to visit on veterens night.

[Butch]

James Harrison a Great Steeler who didn't always make Great decisions. This is a guy who would walk off the field because he messed up on a play. Cut 3 times early in his career because he didn't seem to be getting it...yet through it all he found ways to get back on the team (I have always said I would rather be lucky than good). James had some luck.

James made some Great plays, I still remember when he was a back up for Joey and he intercepted a pass against the chargers and leaped over Tomlinson. I knew he was going to be special and he was. I also remember the Steelers 75th anniversary game where James single handedly tore up the ravens on a Monday night. I would dare to say the single best game I have ever seen a defender have.All this goes along with one of the Greatest plays in Superbowl history.

I can understand why people are mad at James for what he did, but nobody ever accused James of making the best decisions ever. James made his mistakes but that's what makes him human. Love that he was a Steeler and look forward to him being in the Hall some day. Welcome back James

[Craic]

Harrison twice played hardball with the Steelers to get what he wanted. First time, the Steelers said no and simply released when he wouldn't agree to a salary reduction. The second time, they gave him what he wanted and allowed him to walk.

Do I like it? No. I don't like how he handled it (although I am thankful he didn't take it all over the media like some other Einstein Steelers we could mention), and I don't like how he later sniped at Steelers Nation that supported him all these years.

That being said, he didn't pull this crap in the midst of his body of work. The first time it was pure business and nothing much was said outside of that. The second time it was after his body of work had been completed for the Steelers. There is no way that should reflect on the years of unbelievable plays this guy has made in the black and gold. That being said, it's probably a little too soon to have this discussion because as someone else said, the wounds are still a little fresh.

[fansince'76]

Where did TO divide and destroy locker rooms? Even McNabb, who TO and he had his differences, praised TO. Sure the guy was an asshole at times, but he didn’t destroy anything in San Fran or Dallas and it’s questionable that he actually did in Philadelphia after McNabb later praises the guy.

Regardless, I agree...Harrison and Owens situations aren’t remotely close.

Romo and Witten conspiring against him to "freeze him out" of the offense and drawing up plays behind his back? (For one example)

One can admire the guy for his athletic ability, but it's pretty well-documented he was a locker room cancer.

[DesertSteel]

Mendenhall would not even show up

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Mendenhall was a no-show (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-rb-mendenhall-suspended-for-one-game-665949/) for the game, failing to arrive after being told he wouldn’t be on the active game-day roster.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/12/mendenhall-didnt-show-up-for-sundays-game/

My point is fans forgive and/or forget for good to great players - which 70s player shot up a police helicopter and was a fan favorite ?

Which current player escaped being indicted for sexual assault in Georgia and now is idolized by most of the fan base?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRYMendenhall is hardly a fan favorite and the Ben toss-in is a bit of a reach.

[fansince'76]

Mendenhall is hardly a fan favorite and the Ben toss-in is a bit of a reach.

Agreed. Mendenhall is a footnote in Steelers history. Harrison is not.

[zulater]

Agreed. Mendenhall is a footnote in Steelers history. Harrison is not.

Disagree. 'Spinderella was more than a footnote in Steeler history. He also authored a game changing play in the Super Bowl. Except his cost the Steelers all momentum and sealed a loss to the Packers. Sans his fumble real good chance the Steelers win that game.:mad2:

[tube517]

In a couple of years, his temporary Cheats** tenure will be forgotten. I haven't thought about it since the Super Bowl.

Did I like the whole scenario? F no.

It will be pushed into the back of my mind like Franco's sad stint at Seattle.

[pczach]

I've been hard on Harrison for the nightmarish ending to his career in Pittsburgh. Now that I have stated that, there are two things that are inarguable about Harrison if both sides of this are being honest.

Side #1: He is an undeniably great Steelers player. He will forever be remembered as a dominant force and one of the nastiest, scariest players to ever play pro football. Harrison played with a relentlessness and a passion that inspires players and fans alike. He is without question an all-time Steelers great.

Side #2: He turned into a cancer in the locker room, and did more to undermine the goal of winning as any great Steelers player that I can think of. He disrespected the game, the organization, and everyone who rooted for him and looked at him as the example of how a leader should prepare and perform. Those acts affect the way I will think about him for as long as I breathe.

Many here don't seem to realize that he can be both. I'll always appreciate his great play as a Steeler. I will also always remember how little he really cared about the team and the fans.

[Craic]

Disagree. 'Spinderella was more than a footnote in Steeler history. He also authored a game changing play in the Super Bowl. Except his cost the Steelers all momentum and sealed a loss to the Packers. Sans his fumble real good chance the Steelers win that game.:mad2:

:chuckle: True, but there's more than enough blame to go around for that superbowl. Ben didn't have his best game (threw two picks, one was returned for a TD and the other was turned into another 7). Troy P. didn't look good at all. The defense let the Packers march down the field whenever they wanted to as well. So, as much as the Mendy fumble hurts, the reality is it was only one of several different plays that killed the Steelers. We just remember it because it was the last big mistake.

[Born2Steel]

Since everyone is debating this, let me pose a question to add a little to it.

Which Steeler OLB should be considered for the HoF? Harrison, Lloyd, or Porter?

[AtlantaDan]

Mendenhall is hardly a fan favorite and the Ben toss-in is a bit of a reach.

You asked for a player who left after he was told he was inactive on game day - I gave you a name of someone who unlike Harrison did not even come to the stadium - fans had issues with Mendenhall for his 4th quarter fumble in the Super Bowl against Green Bay, not for his indifferent commitment to his profession

As far as Ben being a reach, think back on where Ben was with the fan base and owner (the Rooneys allegedly shopping him in a trade) in the spring of 2010 after his series of boorish acts (including but not limited to Milledgeville) that were recounted in the SI article I linked above - of couse after another trip to Super Bowl it was all good

Fans would forgive the Unabomber or Charles Manson if they delivered on the field

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You asked for a player who left after he was told he was inactive on game day - I gave you a name of someone who unlike Harrison did not even come to the stadium - fans had issues with Mendenhall for his 4th quarter fumble in the Super Bowl against Green Bay, not for his indifferent commitment to his profession

As far as Ben being a reach, think back on where Ben was with the fan base and owner (the Rooneys allegedly shopping him in a trade) in the spring of 2010 after his series of boorish acts (including but not limited to Milledgeville) that were recounted in the SI article I linked above - of couse after another trip to Super Bowl it was all good

Fans would forgive the Unabomber or Charles Manson if they delivered on the field

All of what you state here is correct.

An anonymous NFL exec was once quoted as saying " If Hannibal Lechter ran a 4.3, he would be diagnosed with an eating disorder and signed to a contract".

[Lady Steel]

Happy Retirement, ya traitor!

[Dwinsgames]

I do agree the TD play was great, as was Ben's tackle after Bus fumble, etc., etc., but I still don't consider Harrison a 'franchise great'. Sorry.

then by that standard we must assume you do not believe the steelers have had any great pass rushers in their storied history ....


Harrison is the all time franchise sack leader

[Mojouw]

I also think that some players create a bond with the team they play for. Other players play for a pay check and ego and don't care about the jersey they wear. Which one is Harrison? Neither? Both? Who knows?

Fans expect the former and get upset if they suspect the latter. In the end, as long as player goes flat out between the white lines on Sundays - do we need to know their motivations?

[Dwinsgames]

I also think that some players create a bond with the team they play for. Other players play for a pay check and ego and don't care about the jersey they wear. Which one is Harrison? Neither? Both? Who knows?

Fans expect the former and get upset if they suspect the latter. In the end, as long as player goes flat out between the white lines on Sundays - do we need to know their motivations?


this

- - - Updated - - -


Since everyone is debating this, let me pose a question to add a little to it.

Which Steeler OLB should be considered for the HoF? Harrison, Lloyd, or Porter?


its 92 and honestly not all that close

[Mojouw]

Since everyone is debating this, let me pose a question to add a little to it.

Which Steeler OLB should be considered for the HoF? Harrison, Lloyd, or Porter?

Harrison is the only one who even comes within shouting distance of the HOF. And if we argue that he is primarily a pass rusher, his career 84.5 sacks are lower than only Howie Long's (@ 80). Harrison would've needed at least 25 more sacks and likely about 50 more to have a realistic shot. His peak just wasn't long enough. The talent was there, but he missed about 3 prime seasons and he was never the dominant pass rusher of his era.

[Dwinsgames]

Harrison is the only one who even comes within shouting distance of the HOF. And if we argue that he is primarily a pass rusher, his career 84.5 sacks are lower than only Howie Long's (@ 80). Harrison would've needed at least 25 more sacks and likely about 50 more to have a realistic shot. His peak just wasn't long enough. The talent was there, but he missed about 3 prime seasons and he was never the dominant pass rusher of his era.

I wouldn't call 92 primarily a pass rusher though ....

not many men ever set the edge as well as 92

how many 3-4 OLB dropped in coverage as much as 92 and came anywhere near the sack totals of Harrison ? I would say zero

so while James could get after the passer he was so much more than a pass rusher

Teams / players feared him and rightfully so as he had the propensity to change the ebb and flow of a game

He could knock you out with punishing hits ...

92 was a complete player that played with a vengeance and often had a hand in the outcomes of games ...

he was as much of a game changer as 43 was IMO so Yes he has ( or should have ) a shot at the HoF ...

not a lock by any means and surely not 1st ballot but I think he gets in at some point

[Born2Steel]

Harrison is the only one who even comes within shouting distance of the HOF. And if we argue that he is primarily a pass rusher, his career 84.5 sacks are lower than only Howie Long's (@ 80). Harrison would've needed at least 25 more sacks and likely about 50 more to have a realistic shot. His peak just wasn't long enough. The talent was there, but he missed about 3 prime seasons and he was never the dominant pass rusher of his era.

Not sure I understand the career sacks point(numbers). Porter had 98 sacks for his career and he's not even in the top 25. As far as playing the OLB position, between those 3 I think Porter was the better get after the passer player. I think Harrison was the better all around LB. Lloyd was the guy you just knew was going to have that play or 2 per game that changed everything, like TP43 did. Stats aren't everything. I think I lean more toward Porter in this discussion though.

[Moose]

Not sure I understand the career sacks point(numbers). Porter had 98 sacks for his career and he's not even in the top 25. As far as playing the OLB position, between those 3 I think Porter was the better get after the passer player. I think Harrison was the better all around LB. Lloyd was the guy you just knew was going to have that play or 2 per game that changed everything, like TP43 did. Stats aren't everything. I think I lean more toward Porter in this discussion though.

Jack Lambert not too shabby either !

[Born2Steel]

Jack Lambert not too shabby either !

You mean Ham?

[Mojouw]

I wouldn't call 92 primarily a pass rusher though ....

not many men ever set the edge as well as 92

how many 3-4 OLB dropped in coverage as much as 92 and came anywhere near the sack totals of Harrison ? I would say zero

so while James could get after the passer he was so much more than a pass rusher

Teams / players feared him and rightfully so as he had the propensity to change the ebb and flow of a game

He could knock you out with punishing hits ...

92 was a complete player that played with a vengeance and often had a hand in the outcomes of games ...

he was as much of a game changer as 43 was IMO so Yes he has ( or should have ) a shot at the HoF ...

not a lock by any means and surely not 1st ballot but I think he gets in at some point


Not sure I understand the career sacks point(numbers). Porter had 98 sacks for his career and he's not even in the top 25. As far as playing the OLB position, between those 3 I think Porter was the better get after the passer player. I think Harrison was the better all around LB. Lloyd was the guy you just knew was going to have that play or 2 per game that changed everything, like TP43 did. Stats aren't everything. I think I lean more toward Porter in this discussion though.

While I agree with the idea that sacks are not the only measure of an OLB, the HOF seems to differ. Harrison is trying to crack the list copied in below. Every dude on their is known for either their prolific tackle #'s (the MLB) or their ability to sack the QB (the OLB/DE). No one is in the HOF for setting the edge. Harrison is not going to have the stats to stack up well against Doleman, Jackson, Greene, Tippet, Taylor, or Thomas. Those are the best comps for James Harrison currently in the HOF. Further if Harrison gets in, then you have to let guys like Elvis Dummerville, Joey Porter, Cam Wake, Ken Harvey, and Pat Swilling in as well. They all have better or similar pass rush #'s to Harrison. The Hall has so far been not viewing Swilling and Harvey as good candidates.

Looking at the stats of the guys on that list that played something akin to Harrison's position, 100 sacks minimum and likely north of 120 to really put you in an ideal position for the HOF to take a long look. I just don't see an OLB on that list with under 100 sacks.

Linebackers (29)
Chuck Bednarik (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/chuck-bednarik/) (C-LB) 1949-1962
Bobby Bell (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/bobby-bell/) (also DE) 1963-1974
Derrick Brooks (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/derrick-brooks/) 1995-2008
Nick Buoniconti (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/nick-buoniconti/) 1962-1974, 1976
Dick Butkus (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/dick-butkus/) 1965-1973
Harry Carson (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/harry-carson/) 1976-1988
George Connor (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/george-connor/) (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Chris Doleman (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/chris-doleman/) (DE, LB) 1985-1999
Bill George (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/bill-george/) 1952-1966
Kevin Greene (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/kevin-greene/) (also DE) 1985-1999
Jack Ham (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/jack-ham/) 1971-1982
Chris Hanburger (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/chris-hanburger/) 1965-1978
Ted Hendricks (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/ted-hendricks/) 1969-1983
Sam Huff (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/sam-huff/) 1956-1967, 1969
Rickey Jackson (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/rickey-jackson/) LB (also DE) 1981-1995
Jack Lambert (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/jack-lambert/) 1974-1984
Willie Lanier (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/willie-lanier/) 1967-1977
Ray Lewis (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/ray-lewis/)
Ray Nitschke (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/ray-nitschke/) 1958-1972
Les Richter (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/les-richter/) 1954-1962
Dave Robinson (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/dave-robinson/) 1963-1974
Joe Schmidt (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/joe-schmidt/) 1953-1965
Junior Seau (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/junior-seau/) 1990-2009
Mike Singletary (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/mike-singletary/) 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/lawrence-taylor/) 1981-1993
Derrick Thomas (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/derrick-thomas/) 1989-1999
Andre Tippett (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/andre-tippett/) 1982-1993
Brian Urlacher (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/brian-urlacher/)
Dave Wilcox (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/dave-wilcox/) 1964-1974

[Moose]

I've been hard on Harrison for the nightmarish ending to his career in Pittsburgh. Now that I have stated that, there are two things that are inarguable about Harrison if both sides of this are being honest.

Side #1: He is an undeniably great Steelers player. He will forever be remembered as a dominant force and one of the nastiest, scariest players to ever play pro football. Harrison played with a relentlessness and a passion that inspires players and fans alike. He is without question an all-time Steelers great.

Side #2: He turned into a cancer in the locker room, and did more to undermine the goal of winning as any great Steelers player that I can think of. He disrespected the game, the organization, and everyone who rooted for him and looked at him as the example of how a leader should prepare and perform. Those acts affect the way I will think about him for as long as I breathe.

Many here don't seem to realize that he can be both. I'll always appreciate his great play as a Steeler. I will also always remember how little he really cared about the team and the fans.

Good reply pczach ! I agree with your 2 points. Harrison was a great player- but I personally don't agree with the 'greatest franchise' theory. Nastiest, scariest player also true- i.e. all the fines paid over the year's, although because of said fines started to lay back toward the end of career. In your second point I also agree. From different reads I understand he did start to become disliked by many of the player's for some reason or other. I just feel his heart/soul wasn't with the Steeler's organization, reputation and family feeling. Going to the bungholes was hurtful.....then the cheaters. He had to know the coaches, front office was doing what's best for the team. Why not just play when you get called, give it your all, cash the checks, respect the team, players, organization, fan's, and help all the younger players by teaching them your knowledge of the game. I think he made a pretty damn good living in the 'burgh. Seems to have worked for Hines, Troy, Keisel and a few others. Just my opinion.

[DesertSteel]

You asked for a player who left after he was told he was inactive on game day - I gave you a name of someone who unlike Harrison did not even come to the stadium - fans had issues with Mendenhall for his 4th quarter fumble in the Super Bowl against Green Bay, not for his indifferent commitment to his profession

As far as Ben being a reach, think back on where Ben was with the fan base and owner (the Rooneys allegedly shopping him in a trade) in the spring of 2010 after his series of boorish acts (including but not limited to Milledgeville) that were recounted in the SI article I linked above - of couse after another trip to Super Bowl it was all good

Fans would forgive the Unabomber or Charles Manson if they delivered on the field
Forget the fans... his own teammates dissed him. That's way different. A parallel would be Pete Rose. As a Reds fan, I wanted Rose in the HOF. But then I heard Morgan and Bench come out and say that they did not support him being in. This changed my position. If his own teammates did not want him in then that was an indictment that I could not overcome. When Cam, Moats, Dupree and the rest of the D come out in support of Harrison than I will honor him.

[Mojouw]

Selection of current and former team mates honoring Harrison - https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/4/17/17243730/steelers-players-take-to-social-media-to-say-congratulations-to-james-harrison-on-a-great-career-nfl

Remember, Troy and I think Hines were both really really pissed at the end of their time with the Steelers. Few dwell on that now...

[Born2Steel]

While I agree with the idea that sacks are not the only measure of an OLB, the HOF seems to differ. Harrison is trying to crack the list copied in below. Every dude on their is known for either their prolific tackle #'s (the MLB) or their ability to sack the QB (the OLB/DE). No one is in the HOF for setting the edge. Harrison is not going to have the stats to stack up well against Doleman, Jackson, Greene, Tippet, Taylor, or Thomas. Those are the best comps for James Harrison currently in the HOF. Further if Harrison gets in, then you have to let guys like Elvis Dummerville, Joey Porter, Cam Wake, Ken Harvey, and Pat Swilling in as well. They all have better or similar pass rush #'s to Harrison. The Hall has so far been not viewing Swilling and Harvey as good candidates.

Looking at the stats of the guys on that list that played something akin to Harrison's position, 100 sacks minimum and likely north of 120 to really put you in an ideal position for the HOF to take a long look. I just don't see an OLB on that list with under 100 sacks.

Linebackers (29)


Chuck Bednarik (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/chuck-bednarik/) (C-LB) 1949-1962
Bobby Bell (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/bobby-bell/) (also DE) 1963-1974
Derrick Brooks (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/derrick-brooks/) 1995-2008
Nick Buoniconti (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/nick-buoniconti/) 1962-1974, 1976
Dick Butkus (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/dick-butkus/) 1965-1973
Harry Carson (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/harry-carson/) 1976-1988
George Connor (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/george-connor/) (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Chris Doleman (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/chris-doleman/) (DE, LB) 1985-1999
Bill George (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/bill-george/) 1952-1966
Kevin Greene (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/kevin-greene/) (also DE) 1985-1999
Jack Ham (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/jack-ham/) 1971-1982
Chris Hanburger (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/chris-hanburger/) 1965-1978
Ted Hendricks (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/ted-hendricks/) 1969-1983
Sam Huff (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/sam-huff/) 1956-1967, 1969
Rickey Jackson (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/rickey-jackson/) LB (also DE) 1981-1995
Jack Lambert (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/jack-lambert/) 1974-1984
Willie Lanier (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/willie-lanier/) 1967-1977
Ray Lewis (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/ray-lewis/)
Ray Nitschke (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/ray-nitschke/) 1958-1972
Les Richter (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/les-richter/) 1954-1962
Dave Robinson (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/dave-robinson/) 1963-1974
Joe Schmidt (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/joe-schmidt/) 1953-1965
Junior Seau (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/junior-seau/) 1990-2009
Mike Singletary (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/mike-singletary/) 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/lawrence-taylor/) 1981-1993
Derrick Thomas (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/derrick-thomas/) 1989-1999
Andre Tippett (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/andre-tippett/) 1982-1993
Brian Urlacher (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/brian-urlacher/)
Dave Wilcox (http://www.profootballhof.com/players/dave-wilcox/) 1964-1974

Totally agree with you on how the Hall looks at stats over career. That's exactly why I could see Porter in before Harrison. Plus Porter contributed on different teams.

Also....I didn't realize Seau played for 19 years. Damn!!

[DesertSteel]

Selection of current and former team mates honoring Harrison - https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/4/17/17243730/steelers-players-take-to-social-media-to-say-congratulations-to-james-harrison-on-a-great-career-nfl

Remember, Troy and I think Hines were both really really pissed at the end of their time with the Steelers. Few dwell on that now...Two current players - V. Williams and Shazier.

[Moose]

Selection of current and former team mates honoring Harrison - https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2018/4/17/17243730/steelers-players-take-to-social-media-to-say-congratulations-to-james-harrison-on-a-great-career-nfl

Remember, Troy and I think Hines were both really really pissed at the end of their time with the Steelers. Few dwell on that now...

The 'team' mates are doing well by wishing him "congratulations" on his retirement. That's kind of typical when a person retires. If Troy and Hines were 'really, really pissed' it wasn't really publicized as a headliner. And they both remained a Steeler until the end.....as I recall. True Steeler's !

[Mojouw]

The 'team' mates are doing well by wishing him "congratulations" on his retirement. That's kind of typical when a person retires. If Troy and Hines were 'really, really pissed' it wasn't really publicized as a headliner. And they both remained a Steeler until the end.....as I recall. True Steeler's !

There is a treasure trove of stories about how upset Polamalu was that after signing a 3 year deal prior to the 2014 season that at the end of that season he was flat out told by the team to either retire or be released.

There are several reputable stories still archived on the Google machines that Ward was less than excited about being released. He wanted to come back, but the team didn't want him. He choose to retire, but was less than thrilled about it.

Look, if individuals have decided that Harrison is a no good SOB, it isn't like anything that gets posted here is going to change their mind. Current and former teammates seem to not really give a crap about any of this. I personally don't really either -- I just think it is interesting to look into.

- - - Updated - - -


Totally agree with you on how the Hall looks at stats over career. That's exactly why I could see Porter in before Harrison. Plus Porter contributed on different teams.

Also....I didn't realize Seau played for 19 years. Damn!!

Honestly forgot about Porter's successful stretch with the 'Phins. He might squeak in, but I really doubt it.

[86WARD]

If you’re talking Steelers HOF, all three get in. If you are talking NFL HOF, Harrison has the best chance out of that trio. Not only because of his numbers alone but a lot of these voters take into consideration whether “the story of the NFL” can be told without that person. James adds a good amount to that story with his play on field, his historic Super Bowl return, his feud with Goodell, the piss tests. As weird as it sounds, some of those “off topic” type stories go in his favor. Quite a few voters discussed this in the past, especially about T.O.

Ultimately, I don’t think he’s a Hall if Famer, but if Terrell Davis can get in, anyone can.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

its 92 and honestly not all that close

I cant believe nobody has made a Jason Gildong reference yet. :sofunny:

[Edman]

Tedi Bruschi went on record saying he would never be caught dead wearing a Steelers jersey. Dislike him or not, but he has a point.

Wether we want to admit it or not, Harrison and the Steelers breaking up really hurts, and I'm not talking about just on a butthurt fan level. It's going to take a little for this one to heal. In the meantime, best of luck to Harrison for his retirement, but that's it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Tedi Bruschi went on record saying he would never be caught dead wearing a Steelers jersey. Dislike him or not, but he has a point.

Wether we want to admit it or not, Harrison and the Steelers breaking up really hurts, and I'm not talking about just on a butthurt fan level. It's going to take a little for this one to heal. In the meantime, best of luck to Harrison for his retirement, but that's it.

this sums up my feelings perfectly, I realize this is a business but loyalty is very important to me when I think about considering a player as an all-time Steelers great. all that's missing is Deebo in a Ravens' uniform...

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harrison+Super+Bowl+LII+Philadelphia+ojjC7Mq ysLUl.jpghttp://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harrison+Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Cincinnati+S_ B6pOW3KHol.jpg

[zulater]

Forget the fans... his own teammates dissed him. That's way different. A parallel would be Pete Rose. As a Reds fan, I wanted Rose in the HOF. But then I heard Morgan and Bench come out and say that they did not support him being in. This changed my position. If his own teammates did not want him in then that was an indictment that I could not overcome. When Cam, Moats, Dupree and the rest of the D come out in support of Harrison than I will honor him.

The reason Rose was disavowed by Morgan and Bench is because they know damn well he bet on Reds games and more than likely bet against them on occasion. Biggest no no in sports.

- - - Updated - - -


Tedi Bruschi went on record saying he would never be caught dead wearing a Steelers jersey. Dislike him or not, but he has a point.

Wether we want to admit it or not, Harrison and the Steelers breaking up really hurts, and I'm not talking about just on a butthurt fan level. It's going to take a little for this one to heal. In the meantime, best of luck to Harrison for his retirement, but that's it.

That's because Teddy knows he would be revealed as a total fraud if he didn't know the plays in advance! lol

[GBMelBlount]

Harrison simply wanted to play.

I was miffed but have no hard feelings at this point.

This is how I will remember him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqnQwKAI4OE

[zulater]

Harrison simply wanted to play.

I was miffed but have no hard feelings at this point.

True. And what people are forgetting is Harrison wasn't dealt with fairly by Tomlin, and the Steelers coaching staff. He put in a lot of work to play and was given short shift to a bunch of stiffs with no game. No one can tell me that the Steelers wouldn't have been better if they gave Harrison 6-15 snaps a game. More than anything his so called disloyalty stemmed from the (correct) perception he was being dealt dirty in regards to playing time. If your boss screws you or shows you up your company loyalty is going to go straight down the drain.

[GBMelBlount]

True. And what people are forgetting is Harrison wasn't dealt with fairly by Tomlin, and the Steelers coaching staff. He put in a lot of work to play and was given short shift to a bunch of stiffs with no game. No one can tell me that the Steelers wouldn't have been better if they gave Harrison 6-15 snaps a game. More than anything his so called disloyalty stemmed from the (correct) perception he was being dealt dirty in regards to playing time. If your boss screws you or shows you up your company loyalty is going to go straight down the drain.

I agree Zu.

...and imagine how the Steelers brass would have looked if he had helped the Patriots win another Superbowl.

[zulater]

I agree Zu.

...and imagine how the Steelers brass would have looked if he had helped the Patriots win another Superbowl.

Anyone who doesn't think Harrison is loyal should go talk to Dick LeBeau. Harrison can be fiercely loyal and also can hold a grudge. He still hates Cowher to this day. Got a feeling his opinion of Porter and Tomlin isn't the greatest either.

[Shoes]

Anyone who doesn't think Harrison is loyal should go talk to Dick LeBeau. Harrison can be fiercely loyal and also can hold a grudge. He still hates Cowher to this day. Got a feeling his opinion of Porter and Tomlin isn't the greatest either.


Loyalty to LeBeau went too far imo. His last year should have been after the embarrassing Tebow skunking. No question about Harrison's loyalty to LeBeau, I'm sure James would have loved to have Watt sit on the bench for a few years under the LeBeau plan.

[Rotorhead]

Loyalty to LeBeau went too far imo. His last year should have been after the embarrassing Tebow skunking. No question about Harrison's loyalty to LeBeau, I'm sure James would have loved to have Watt sit on the bench for a few years under the LeBeau plan.

Ridiculous statement, he would have changed the game against the Jags if he was in instead of Dupree, as setting the edge would have significantly slowed their run game. And on top of that he helped significantly last year.

For the record I hope he has a good retirement and he will always be one of my favorite players.

[teegre]

Yeaaah!!!!! Another “James Harrison shoulda played more” thread.

I was getting tired of the “Le’Veon Bell is overrated” threads.

[Shoes]

Ridiculous statement, he would have changed the game against the Jags if he was in instead of Dupree, as setting the edge would have significantly slowed their run game. And on top of that he helped significantly last year.

For the record I hope he has a good retirement and he will always be one of my favorite players.

I believe I said Watt, not Dupree.

[Rotorhead]

I believe I said Watt, not Dupree.

I wasn’t commenting about that, your statement about how he should have been done before he left for Bungles was ridiculous. He was better than Dupree last year and was our best OLB 2 years ago.

[Shoes]

I wasn’t commenting about that, your statement about how he should have been done before he left for Bungles was ridiculous. He was better than Dupree last year and was our best OLB 2 years ago.


I was talking about Lebeau, not Harrison. How in the hell did the Bungles get into my post? :lol: I'm done with this one.

[DesertSteel]

The reason Rose was disavowed by Morgan and Bench is because they know damn well he bet on Reds games and more than likely bet against them on occasion. Biggest no no in sports.

Right and Harrison's teammates know how big of a cancer he was in the locker room this year.

- - - Updated - - -

The real litmus test with the fans will be that 90% of them will not only not care that he doesn't get elected to the HOF but in many respects will be glad. And this isn't a statement that speaks to the legitimacy of his candidacy, or lack thereof.

- - - Updated - - -


Anyone who doesn't think Harrison is loyal should go talk to Dick LeBeau. Harrison can be fiercely loyal and also can hold a grudge. He still hates Cowher to this day. Got a feeling his opinion of Porter and Tomlin isn't the greatest either.
Harrison is not loyal. I don't need to talk with Dick to know that.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Harrison is not loyal. I don't need to talk with Dick to know that.

many positive adjectives come to my mind when I remember Deebo's Pittsburgh Steelers career. "Loyal" is not one of them...

[Lady Steel]

this sums up my feelings perfectly, I realize this is a business but loyalty is very important to me when I think about considering a player as an all-time Steelers great. all that's missing is Deebo in a Ravens' uniform...

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harrison+Super+Bowl+LII+Philadelphia+ojjC7Mq ysLUl.jpghttp://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harrison+Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Cincinnati+S_ B6pOW3KHol.jpg


This is where I stand right now, also. Loyalty is something that is very important to me, as well. I may forgive him someday, but it's highly unlikely. Us women don't forget anything. :chuckle:

[SteelerFanInStl]

this sums up my feelings perfectly, I realize this is a business but loyalty is very important to me when I think about considering a player as an all-time Steelers great. all that's missing is Deebo in a Ravens' uniform...

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harrison+Super+Bowl+LII+Philadelphia+ojjC7Mq ysLUl.jpghttp://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harrison+Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Cincinnati+S_ B6pOW3KHol.jpg

Loyalty goes both ways. I still believe that James got bad advice from his agent the first time that he left. His agent was telling him that he should be getting paid more when that wasn't the case. He refused the Steelers offer because of that advice and then found himself looking for a team with few offers. He had to take what he could get to continue his career and that meant playing for the Bengals.

This past season, the team wasn't loyal to him, period. That's where it all started. There were no issues with James prior to that. He was promised playing time before the season started and the team didn't follow through. If I'm contemplating leaving my job but am told by my boss that I'll be given specific things to make me stay, and then my boss doesn't follow through on those promises, I'm gonna be pissed. Do what you promise. James knew that this was probably going to be his last season and he didn't want to spend it standing on the sideline. He wanted to play and was promised playing time. That promise wasn't kept. I don't agree with his actions but I can understand how he felt after all of the years that he gave the Steelers organization.

Any talk of "loyalty" when it comes to James is ridiculous.

[Moose]

Those 2 pics of Harrison in a CHEATERS uniform and a BUNGHOLE uniform are priceless ! ( especially when some are talking about him being loyal !!:rofl:)

[86WARD]

Loyalty goes both ways..

This. Neither side handled the situation well. James is James. It’s how the guy is. It’s the guy every Steelers fan loved and because the team was “unloyal” to him, he was “unloyal” to the team. It is what it is, get over it. The guys a Steelers great. Too bad.

[pczach]

The first time James left the Steelers, they offered him what they thought he was worth to them. When James refused what they offered him, he went on to the open market and found out the Steelers had offered him more than anyone else was willing to offer him by a lot. He specifically signed with the Bengals so we could play the Steelers twice a year and try to stick it to them. He was a complete failure in Cincinnati with the Bengals.

The second time around he didn't get as much playing time as he wanted. Last time I checked, Harrison knew the rules of the NFL and NFL locker rooms. You have to earn your spot on the team, and you have to play better than the man in front of you if you want to get on the field. His position was right outside linebacker. Watt came in, and provided the athleticism and talent that they had been looking for at the position. Therefore, James got to sit his ass on the bench and watch the other guy play like every other NFL player in the history of NFL football did.....Period.

People need to stop romanticizing this guy and accept what he did while in Pittsburgh. He's a great player that got old, still wanted to play football, still wanted to make big money, and still wanted to start no matter how good the guy was in front of him because he was "James Harrison".

The Steelers consistently paid him more than anyone else in the NFL was willing to pay him. Every time he hit the open market there was literally zero interest and no one was willing to spend any money on him. The Steelers also put him in the system to maximize his talents while he was on the field in Pittsburgh. He thought he was worth way more money than he really was, and he thought he was much better then he really was at his age. He started to believe all his Instagram, Facebook, and whatever legendary workouts he posted on social media.

[Mojouw]

The first time James left the Steelers, they offered him what they thought he was worth to them. When James refused what they offered him, he went on to the open market and found out the Steelers had offered him more than anyone else was willing to offer him by a lot. He specifically signed with the Bengals so we could play the Steelers twice a year and try to stick it to them. He was a complete failure in Cincinnati with the Bengles.

The second time around he didn't get as much playing time as he wanted. Last time I checked, Harrison new the rules of the NFL and NFL locker rooms. You have to earn your spot on the team, and you have to play better than the man in front of you if you want to get on the field. His position was right outside linebacker. Watt came in, and provided the athleticism and talent that they had been looking for at the position. Therefore, James got to sit his ass on the bench and watch the other guy play like every other NFL player in the history of NFL football did.....Period.

People need to stop romanticizing this guy and accept what he did while in Pittsburgh. He's a great player that got old, still wanted to play football, still wanted to make big money, and still wanted to start no matter how good the guy was in front of him because he was "James Harrison".

The Steelers consistently paid him more than anyone else in the NFL was willing to pay him. Every time he hit the open market there was literally zero interest and no one was willing to spend any money on him. The Steelers also put him in the system to maximize his talents while he was on the field in Pittsburgh. He thought he was worth way more money than he really was, and he thought he was much better then he really was at his age. He started to believe all his Instagram, Facebook, and whatever legendary workouts he posted on social media.

But...but....BUT....

Bud Dupree Sucks
Rookies should earn their spots and not just get handed starting jobs based on draft position
Jarvis Jones sucked
A variety of arguments not backed by stats or game examples about setting the edge

I think that about covers it. Hopefully I have saved everyone some time.

Oh, yeah -- one more thing:

Steeldude.
Steeldude.
Steeldude.

I think he should appear now...just like candyman or bloody mary!

[SteelerFanInStl]

The first time James left the Steelers, they offered him what they thought he was worth to them. When James refused what they offered him, he went on to the open market and found out the Steelers had offered him more than anyone else was willing to offer him by a lot. He specifically signed with the Bengals so we could play the Steelers twice a year and try to stick it to them. He was a complete failure in Cincinnati with the Bengles.

The second time around he didn't get as much playing time as he wanted. Last time I checked, Harrison new the rules of the NFL and NFL locker rooms. You have to earn your spot on the team, and you have to play better than the man in front of you if you want to get on the field. His position was right outside linebacker. Watt came in, and provided the athleticism and talent that they had been looking for at the position. Therefore, James got to sit his ass on the bench and watch the other guy play like every other NFL player in the history of NFL football did.....Period.

People need to stop romanticizing this guy and accept what he did while in Pittsburgh. He's a great player that got old, still wanted to play football, still wanted to make big money, and still wanted to start no matter how good the guy was in front of him because he was "James Harrison".

The Steelers consistently paid him more than anyone else in the NFL was willing to pay him. Every time he hit the open market there was literally zero interest and no one was willing to spend any money on him. The Steelers also put him in the system to maximize his talents while he was on the field in Pittsburgh. He thought he was worth way more money than he really was, and he thought he was much better then he really was at his age. He started to believe all his Instagram, Facebook, and whatever legendary workouts he posted on social media.

No one's "romanticizing" James. Mostly people are just trying to get others to stop posting incorrect information like the bolded part above. James wasn't asking to be the starter. He was only asking to get the playing time that he was promised by the coaching staff. Not "what he wanted", what he was promised. Period. That's all this comes down to.

You're acting as though James couldn't play any more but that's not correct. He played very well in the second half of the 2016 season when he was inserted as the starter. He didn't suddenly lose that over the off season.

If I'm thinking of leaving my job and my boss asks me to stick around and promises me a raise, promotion, whatever and then they don't follow through on that promise, I'm going to be pissed and I'm going to leave. This is no different.

[Shoes]

The first time James left the Steelers, they offered him what they thought he was worth to them. When James refused what they offered him, he went on to the open market and found out the Steelers had offered him more than anyone else was willing to offer him by a lot. He specifically signed with the Bengals so we could play the Steelers twice a year and try to stick it to them. He was a complete failure in Cincinnati with the Bengles.

The second time around he didn't get as much playing time as he wanted. Last time I checked, Harrison new the rules of the NFL and NFL locker rooms. You have to earn your spot on the team, and you have to play better than the man in front of you if you want to get on the field. His position was right outside linebacker. Watt came in, and provided the athleticism and talent that they had been looking for at the position. Therefore, James got to sit his ass on the bench and watch the other guy play like every other NFL player in the history of NFL football did.....Period.

People need to stop romanticizing this guy and accept what he did while in Pittsburgh. He's a great player that got old, still wanted to play football, still wanted to make big money, and still wanted to start no matter how good the guy was in front of him because he was "James Harrison".

The Steelers consistently paid him more than anyone else in the NFL was willing to pay him. Every time he hit the open market there was literally zero interest and no one was willing to spend any money on him. The Steelers also put him in the system to maximize his talents while he was on the field in Pittsburgh. He thought he was worth way more money than he really was, and he thought he was much better then he really was at his age. He started to believe all his Instagram, Facebook, and whatever legendary workouts he posted on social media.

That about wraps this one up!

[Mojouw]

We could make arguments that as the NFL has gone to more horizontally spread out offensive schemes, an OLB like James Harrison doesn't "fit" well.

We could discuss where a pass-rushing and run-stopping EDGE player fits in the NFL compared to those EDGE players that trade some pass rush and run stop prowess for the capability to play in space and deeper down the field than OLB's traditionally do (at least in a 3-4).

We could debate the perceived role of the OLBs in Butler's 2017 and forward version of the 3-4 and our understanding of the role of OLBs in the more traditional Lebeau version of the 3-4.

But, no one wants to do that. People just want to yell about how they feel and concepts of "loyalty" and "promises made versus promises kept".

C'mon man! This is modern pro sports. There is no loyalty and promises aren't worth the paper they are printed on or the breath used to say them. Winning is all that matters. For reasons that may or may not be clear to fans, the Steelers coaching staff judged that Watt and Dupree gave the Steelers a better chance to win in 2017.

[SteelerFanInStl]

We could make arguments that as the NFL has gone to more horizontally spread out offensive schemes, an OLB like James Harrison doesn't "fit" well.

We could discuss where a pass-rushing and run-stopping EDGE player fits in the NFL compared to those EDGE players that trade some pass rush and run stop prowess for the capability to play in space and deeper down the field than OLB's traditionally do (at least in a 3-4).

We could debate the perceived role of the OLBs in Butler's 2017 and forward version of the 3-4 and our understanding of the role of OLBs in the more traditional Lebeau version of the 3-4.

But, no one wants to do that. People just want to yell about how they feel and concepts of "loyalty" and "promises made versus promises kept".

C'mon man! This is modern pro sports. There is no loyalty and promises aren't worth the paper they are printed on or the breath used to say them. Winning is all that matters. For reasons that may or may not be clear to fans, the Steelers coaching staff judged that Watt and Dupree gave the Steelers a better chance to win in 2017.

You're correct and I don't have an issue with any of that. The thing that I laugh at is the Steeler fans who keep crying about Harrison being a "traitor" and him not being "loyal" without acknowledging that the Steelers weren't loyal to him. I understand completely why he wanted out and don't blame him even though I don't agree with a lot of his actions.

James had a long and great career with the Steelers. I will remember him for all of the years prior to 2017.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeaaah!!!!! Another “James Harrison shoulda played more” thread.

I was getting tired of the “Le’Veon Bell is overrated” threads.

....before that you were likely tired of the "we should have drafted Eddy Lacy" threads.

[Mojouw]

You're correct and I don't have an issue with any of that. The thing that I laugh at is the Steeler fans who keep crying about Harrison being a "traitor" and him not being "loyal" without acknowledging that the Steelers weren't loyal to him. I understand completely why he wanted out and don't blame him even though I don't agree with a lot of his actions.

James had a long and great career with the Steelers. I will remember him for all of the years prior to 2017.

Sounds like we are on the same page. I don't get how anyone can expect "loyalty" and "pro sports" to go together anymore.

[hawaiiansteeler]

....before that you were likely tired of the "we should have drafted Eddy Lacy" threads.

should have taken C.J. Mosley :stirthepot:

[pczach]

No one's "romanticizing" James. Mostly people are just trying to get others to stop posting incorrect information like the bolded part above. James wasn't asking to be the starter. He was only asking to get the playing time that he was promised by the coaching staff. Not "what he wanted", what he was promised. Period. That's all this comes down to.

You're acting as though James couldn't play any more but that's not correct. He played very well in the second half of the 2016 season when he was inserted as the starter. He didn't suddenly lose that over the off season.

If I'm thinking of leaving my job and my boss asks me to stick around and promises me a raise, promotion, whatever and then they don't follow through on that promise, I'm going to be pissed and I'm going to leave. This is no different.


There's nothing incorrect about the paragraph you bolded.

Even if you think he was "promised" playing time, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. Just like when players get contracts for previous production on the promise of that level of play going forward. Nobody is giving their money back when they underperform.

Was Tony Romo promised he would play when he got healthy? Brett Favre was butthurt when Aaron Rodgers took over his job. This is life in the NFL. Everyone knows that, and nobody knows that better than NFL players like James Harrison.

If Ben gets hurt and a young QB comes in and lights it up while he's out.....Ben is probably out of a job and on the trading block. This is reality in the NFL. I just don't understand how anybody can believe that he was screwed over by the team when he still made exactly as much money for not playing as he did for playing. If and when they promised him playing time, they probably thought there would be a much more steep learning curve for Watt, and they wanted to know what they had before they adjusted the scheme for the athleticism of Watt and Dupree. After they decided that Watt and Dupree were capable of much more than James ever could, they designed the responsibilities of the OLB position to take advantage of that athleticism and Harrison just didn't fit the scheme to be anything but a designated rusher. That's basically all he has been for a couple years.

You also keep saying how James could still play. Here are a few question for you, but I'll answer them for you.


When was the last time James played well in any scheme other than the Steelers scheme?

Answer: Never. The next time James plays well for another team and is worthy of being a starter will be the first time in his career. He sucked for the Bengals, and he was a one-dimensional pass rusher for the Patriots.


What has James ever shown from a flexibility standpoint in regards to playing in different schemes?

Answer: None. He has never shown the ability to play in any scheme other than the Steelers 3-4 OLB scheme which was designed by LeBeau, and played to all Harrison's strengths.


What has Harrison done from a workout perspective to improve his performance on the weaknesses of his game?

Answer: Next to none. He spent all his time doing strength exercises and posting every workout online because he appears more interested in being a pro wrestler than he ever was in improving his flexibility, quickness, speed, cover skills, etc... He turned into a one-trick pony at the end of his career.....and that's OK. What's not OK is acting like he should be on the field when he was incapable of performing what was asked of him, and seemed to do next to nothing to get smaller and quicker.


When has a disgruntled player ever always slept in meetings, refused to help other players, left the facilities repeatedly, gone out of his way to screw his teammates and the organization........and has been rewarded with more playing time?

Answer: I don't know, but it should be never.


When was the last time a team wanted him more than the Steelers did, or was willing to pay him more money?

Answer: NEVER


Both times James left the Steelers, he went out of his way to try to screw the team. He also always took far LESS money than he was making with the Steelers. It doesn't sound like your last paragraph even remotely applies to Harrison's situation. He was getting paid to sleep in meetings and not help the team in any way.

It sounds to me like the Steelers were far more loyal to Harrison than he was to them.

[Craic]

this sums up my feelings perfectly, I realize this is a business but loyalty is very important to me when I think about considering a player as an all-time Steelers great. all that's missing is Deebo in a Ravens' uniform...



So, you're saying you wouldn't consider Rod Woodson an all-time Steelers great?

https://i2.wp.com/cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/906/913/651128_display_image.jpghttps://www.sportsspeakers360.com/admin/img/rod-woodson.jpg


Our all-time kicker is Gary Anderson, but you wouldn't consider him an all-time great?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7a/e2/a8/7ae2a89840ab91a190c86e98ef122a76.jpg

(Lest we forget, these are the former Oilers, a division rival that Anderson would have played against several times as a Steelers player).

Of course, even though this is an anachronism, we can't forget the best RB in Franco Harris:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YuwAAOSwPOhaYZHU/s-l300.png

[hawaiiansteeler]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/995/415/b30.jpg

[st33lersguy]

It's bad enough that he bitched his way off the team and left the stadium like a jackass, but not being a mentor to younger players because they didn't want them taking his job makes him worse and easier to allow his final act to taint his legacy.

[SteelerFanInStl]

There's nothing incorrect about the paragraph you bolded.

Even if you think he was "promised" playing time, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. Just like when players get contracts for previous production on the promise of that level of play going forward. Nobody is giving their money back when they underperform.

Was Tony Romo promised he would play when he got healthy? Brett Favre was butthurt when Aaron Rodgers took over his job. This is life in the NFL. Everyone knows that, and nobody knows that better than NFL players like James Harrison.

If Ben gets hurt and a young QB comes in and lights it up while he's out.....Ben is probably out of a job and on the trading block. This is reality in the NFL. I just don't understand how anybody can believe that he was screwed over by the team when he still made exactly as much money for not playing as he did for playing. If and when they promised him playing time, they probably thought there would be a much more steep learning curve for Watt, and they wanted to know what they had before they adjusted the scheme for the athleticism of Watt and Dupree. After they decided that Watt and Dupree were capable of much more than James ever could, they designed the responsibilities of the OLB position to take advantage of that athleticism and Harrison just didn't fit the scheme to be anything but a designated rusher. That's basically all he has been for a couple years.

You also keep saying how James could still play. Here are a few question for you, but I'll answer them for you.


When was the last time James played well in any scheme other than the Steelers scheme?

Answer: Never. The next time James plays well for another team and is worthy of being a starter will be the first time in his career. He sucked for the Bengals, and he was a one-dimensional pass rusher for the Patriots.


What has James ever shown from a flexibility standpoint in regards to playing in different schemes?

Answer: None. He has never shown the ability to play in any scheme other than the Steelers 3-4 OLB scheme which was designed by LeBeau, and played to all Harrison's strengths.


What has Harrison done from a workout perspective to improve his performance on the weaknesses of his game?

Answer: Next to none. He spent all his time doing strength exercises and posting every workout online because he appears more interested in being a pro wrestler than he ever was in improving his flexibility, quickness, speed, cover skills, etc... He turned into a one-trick pony at the end of his career.....and that's OK. What's not OK is acting like he should be on the field when he was incapable of performing what was asked of him, and seemed to do next to nothing to get smaller and quicker.


When has a disgruntled player ever always slept in meetings, refused to help other players, left the facilities repeatedly, gone out of his way to screw his teammates and the organization........and has been rewarded with more playing time?

Answer: I don't know, but it should be never.


When was the last time a team wanted him more than the Steelers did, or was willing to pay him more money?

Answer: NEVER


Both times James left the Steelers, he went out of his way to try to screw the team. He also always took far LESS money than he was making with the Steelers. It doesn't sound like your last paragraph even remotely applies to Harrison's situation. He was getting paid to sleep in meetings and not help the team in any way.

It sounds to me like the Steelers were far more loyal to Harrison than he was to them.

You're really reaching. You and I both know that James was playing DE for the Bengals, which isn't a fit for his skills. You also know that he took less money because that's what he was offered. How does signing with the only team offering him a contract equate to "screwing the team"? Him signing with the Bengals and the Patriots had absolutely no effect on the Steelers.

You just sound like a bitter fan who takes pro sports far too personally.

- - - Updated - - -


Sounds like we are on the same page. I don't get how anyone can expect "loyalty" and "pro sports" to go together anymore.

There really isn't loyalty in pro sports any more and fans shouldn't expect it from the team or the players.

[hawaiiansteeler]

There really isn't loyalty in pro sports any more and fans shouldn't expect it from the team or the players.

I understand that pro sports is a multi-billion dollar business and I don't necessarily expect loyalty from teams or players. however, the way Deebo decided to handle things does taint his legacy as a Pittsburgh Steeler in my eyes.

[pczach]

You're really reaching. You and I both know that James was playing DE for the Bengals, which isn't a fit for his skills. You also know that he took less money because that's what he was offered. How does signing with the only team offering him a contract equate to "screwing the team"? Him signing with the Bengals and the Patriots had absolutely no effect on the Steelers.

You just sound like a bitter fan who takes pro sports far too personally.

- - - Updated - - -



There really isn't loyalty in pro sports any more and fans shouldn't expect it from the team or the players.



And you sound like a fan boy with zero real information to backup your point. I just laid out a reasonable and completely understandable assessment of Harrison's two divorces with the Steelers which I described in detail over a few posts.

I'm a bitter fan? :sofunny:

I'm always looking at the bright side. I'm a guy that always preaches patience with young players before screaming that they're a bust like so many here. I'm the guy that goes to the gameday threads and has to read reactionary crap from guys like you rip the team every time they don't score a touchdown on every play......but I'm a bitter fan huh? Talk about being hypocritical.

You have nothing to bring to the discussion. I didn't rip you or attack you. I simply made a couple statements about Harrison.

How about actually giving some information to help make your point? Oh, that's right.....you don't have any.




Here's another factoid for you SteelerFanInStl: Harrison stated it was a goal of his and his agent to stay in the AFC North when he signed with the Bengals.



http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...ntract-bengals (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3876184-74/harrison-contract-bengals)



Is there any more misinformation that you want to spew out?


Oh, and he played OLB in their 4-3 scheme, not DE like you said, which is exactly why I mentioned him not being scheme-versatile.

Wow...you're on fire.

[Craic]

snip

Strawman argument: a misrepresentation or exaggeration of an argument to make it easier to attack.
You: Loyalty is important to me when considering a player as an all time great.

Me: Inquired about the validity of your argument by introducing three other players your argument can be applied to and asking if you would say the same about them not being all-time greats.

That's not a strawman. That's asking whether you are consistent with your argument or still arguing out of emotion because the event is still new. (For me, it's the latter. I consider all three Steelers greats, and will do so with Harrison, but right now it's still too fresh in my mind to really state it with conviction at the moment).

Had I wanted to engage in strawman argumentation, it would have looked something like this:

Example 1: So, anyone who goes to any team is not worth of being "great" in your eyes? I guess that means Alan Faneca is not a great?

This is a strawman because you didn't say "any team." While you didn't outright state it, the ideas was a team that could be considered a rival.



Example 2: So, Kordell Stewart shouldn't be mentioned in light of his place as third best QB per records because he went to the Ravens?

This is a strawman because you did not argue record. It is not a strawman, however, concerning him playing for the Ravens since he was cut by the Steelers just as Deebo was cut before he went to the Bengals.
This argument is not a strawman due to it being about Stewart, but it is an invalid argument because Stewart isn't considered an all-time great player.

_______________________________

What have we learned from this little lesson? Mainly, that my typing sucks anymore. Can't tell you how many times I've had to go back and fix typos. :doh:




__

[hawaiiansteeler]

uh, no.

Strawman argument: a misrepresentation or exaggeration of an argument to make it easier to attack.

You: Loyalty is important to me when considering a player as an all time great.

Me: Inquired about the validity of your argument by introducing three other players your argument can be applied to and asking if you would say the same about them not being all-time greats.

That's not a strawman. That's asking whether you are consistent with your argument or still arguing out of emotion because the event is still new. (For me, it's the latter. I consider all three Steelers greats, and will do so with Harrison, but right now it's still too fresh in my mind to really state it with conviction at the moment).

I'm not debating the circumstances that led Woodson, Anderson and Franco to end up playing for other teams and how they handled those circumstances that were unique to their situations.

I'm only discussing the way Deebo decided to handle things and yes, some of the decisions he made does taint his legacy as a Pittsburgh Steeler in my eyes.

[Craic]

I'm not debating the circumstances that led Woodson, Anderson and Franco to end up playing for other teams and how they handled those circumstances that were unique to their situations.

I'm only discussing the way Deebo decided to handle things and yes, some of the decisions he made does taint his legacy as a Pittsburgh Steeler in my eyes.

And, so, my question still stands: does it taint Rod Woodson's legacy or Gary Anderson's legacy? To a lesser degree (due to it being anachronistic) does it taint Franco Harris's legacy?

(Another off-the-wall note: I still hate the change to s's for possessives even if it is a name ending in s. It just looks strange).

Of course, that does bring up Alan Faneca and Joey Porter. Both of them mouthed their way off the team because they were unhappy.

[GBMelBlount]

I think this is a great thread and I do understand both points of view.

I am just not sure what there is to get heated about.

[hawaiiansteeler]

You're really reaching. You and I both know that James was playing DE for the Bengals, which isn't a fit for his skills.

Deebo played OLB in the Bengals' 4-3 defense, not DE.

[pczach]

Yeah, I just mentioned that in my post above.

There appears to be a lot of things he's a little fuzzy about.

What do I know. I'm just a bitter fan.:thumbsup:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Yeah, I just mentioned that in my post above.

There appears to be a lot of things he's a little fuzzy about.

What do I know. I'm just a bitter fan.:thumbsup:

don't forget that you also take pro sports far too personally. :poker::cool::hippo:

[pczach]

don't forget that you also take pro sports far too personally. :poker::cool::hippo:


Thank you...I forgot.

:yay3:

[teegre]

....before that you were likely tired of the "we should have drafted Eddy Lacy" threads.

Or... anything posted by Dodens Grav.

[tube517]

So, you're saying you wouldn't consider Rod Woodson an all-time Steelers great?

https://i2.wp.com/cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/906/913/651128_display_image.jpghttps://www.sportsspeakers360.com/admin/img/rod-woodson.jpg


Our all-time kicker is Gary Anderson, but you wouldn't consider him an all-time great?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7a/e2/a8/7ae2a89840ab91a190c86e98ef122a76.jpg

(Lest we forget, these are the former Oilers, a division rival that Anderson would have played against several times as a Steelers player).

Of course, even though this is an anachronism, we can't forget the best RB in Franco Harris:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YuwAAOSwPOhaYZHU/s-l300.png

Gary Anderson played for the Titans? Traitor!

[86WARD]

There's nothing incorrect about the paragraph you bolded.

Even if you think he was "promised" playing time, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. Just like when players get contracts for previous production on the promise of that level of play going forward. Nobody is giving their money back when they underperform.

Was Tony Romo promised he would play when he got healthy? Brett Favre was butthurt when Aaron Rodgers took over his job. This is life in the NFL. Everyone knows that, and nobody knows that better than NFL players like James Harrison.

If Ben gets hurt and a young QB comes in and lights it up while he's out.....Ben is probably out of a job and on the trading block. This is reality in the NFL. I just don't understand how anybody can believe that he was screwed over by the team when he still made exactly as much money for not playing as he did for playing. If and when they promised him playing time, they probably thought there would be a much more steep learning curve for Watt, and they wanted to know what they had before they adjusted the scheme for the athleticism of Watt and Dupree. After they decided that Watt and Dupree were capable of much more than James ever could, they designed the responsibilities of the OLB position to take advantage of that athleticism and Harrison just didn't fit the scheme to be anything but a designated rusher. That's basically all he has been for a couple years.

You also keep saying how James could still play. Here are a few question for you, but I'll answer them for you.


When was the last time James played well in any scheme other than the Steelers scheme?

Answer: Never. The next time James plays well for another team and is worthy of being a starter will be the first time in his career. He sucked for the Bengals, and he was a one-dimensional pass rusher for the Patriots.


What has James ever shown from a flexibility standpoint in regards to playing in different schemes?

Answer: None. He has never shown the ability to play in any scheme other than the Steelers 3-4 OLB scheme which was designed by LeBeau, and played to all Harrison's strengths.


What has Harrison done from a workout perspective to improve his performance on the weaknesses of his game?

Answer: Next to none. He spent all his time doing strength exercises and posting every workout online because he appears more interested in being a pro wrestler than he ever was in improving his flexibility, quickness, speed, cover skills, etc... He turned into a one-trick pony at the end of his career.....and that's OK. What's not OK is acting like he should be on the field when he was incapable of performing what was asked of him, and seemed to do next to nothing to get smaller and quicker.


When has a disgruntled player ever always slept in meetings, refused to help other players, left the facilities repeatedly, gone out of his way to screw his teammates and the organization........and has been rewarded with more playing time?

Answer: I don't know, but it should be never.


When was the last time a team wanted him more than the Steelers did, or was willing to pay him more money?

Answer: NEVER


Both times James left the Steelers, he went out of his way to try to screw the team. He also always took far LESS money than he was making with the Steelers. It doesn't sound like your last paragraph even remotely applies to Harrison's situation. He was getting paid to sleep in meetings and not help the team in any way.

It sounds to me like the Steelers were far more loyal to Harrison than he was to them.

Too quickly add to you NFL guarantee comment...what’s his name QB that the Seahawks signed as a starter ... Matt Flynn ... only to be beaten out by rookie Russell Wilson.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Or... anything posted by Dodens Grav.

I used to intentionally take the other side of the argument I believed in so Dodens Grav would then end up agreeing with what I really believed :heh:

[Craic]

Yeah, I just mentioned that in my post above.

There appears to be a lot of things he's a little fuzzy about.

What do I know. I'm just a bitter (beer face) fan.:thumbsup:

https://i.imgur.com/fAmHCzk.jpg


:chuckle:

[Lady Steel]

http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoons/RogerR/2017/RogerR20171228_low.jpg



Okay, okay... I'm really sorry. I'll stop calling Deebo a traitor. Seriously.

From here on out, I'll refer to him as Judas. :giggles:

[Lady Steel]

If Ben gets hurt and a young QB comes in and lights it up while he's out.....Ben is probably out of a job and on the trading block.

Yep. Or retires. Ben knows exactly how that works (coughTommyGuncough). :wink02:

[teegre]

I used to intentionally take the other side of the argument I believed in so Dodens Grav would then end up agreeing with what I really believed :heh:

I bet that pissed him off... but, of course, EVERYTHING pissed him off. :lol:

[pczach]

Too quickly add to you NFL guarantee comment...what’s his name QB that the Seahawks signed as a starter ... Matt Flynn ... only to be beaten out by rookie Russell Wilson.



Thank you. This is something that is universally understood.

I had to say it when Troy couldn't do it anymore. I loved the guy and everything he did here, but he couldn't do it on the field anymore. It doesn't make him less of a player for his career. It just meant that he had given everything he had and it was time for the next generation and to get a younger player that was physically capable.

Far too many times, it's the player or the blinded fan that doesn't want to see what everyone else can plainly see that understands the game. They just don't have it anymore.

Remember, there are fans here that have been saying that Ben has lost it for many years now.....but James Harrison is still playing at a high level. Let that one sink in.

[GBMelBlount]

Looks like things have ended well between Harrison and the Rooneys.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23243210/newly-retired-james-harrison-no-hard-feelings-pittsburgh-steelers

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/04/17/steelers-president-art-rooney-ii-wishes-james-harrison-luck-on-his-retirement/

[Dwinsgames]

I understand that pro sports is a multi-billion dollar business and I don't necessarily expect loyalty from teams or players. however, the way Deebo decided to handle things does taint his legacy as a Pittsburgh Steeler in my eyes.

I get that to a point , but where I have a disconnect is Tomlin holding him out of camp and saying James doesnt need the work he will be ready ( which he was his training is harder than any camp the nfl puts on ) that aside he played 30 something snaps I believe it was .. not exactly giving the man any opportunity ... considering he was the teams best OLB just 1 season prior he should have got some work , granted we shouldnt hold back a rookie in order to give the past more chances but at the same time do not let the man believe he has a role when in fact you are not offering him one either ....


that does not dismiss how James responded by any means but at the same time I can see cause and effect at work here ...If Tomlin does not make James believe he has a role , James does not assume he has one only to be disappointed and then disenchanted with the whole process ...

Blame pie comes with many slices I just do not believe all of it is James to eats

[GBMelBlount]

I get that to a point , but where I have a disconnect is Tomlin holding him out of camp and saying James doesnt need the work he will be ready ( which he was his training is harder than any camp the nfl puts on ) that aside he played 30 something snaps I believe it was .. not exactly giving the man any opportunity ... considering he was the teams best OLB just 1 season prior he should have got some work , granted we shouldnt hold back a rookie in order to give the past more chances but at the same time do not let the man believe he has a role when in fact you are not offering him one either ....


that does not dismiss how James responded by any means but at the same time I can see cause and effect at work here ...If Tomlin does not make James believe he has a role , James does not assume he has one only to be disappointed and then disenchanted with the whole process ...

Blame pie comes with many slices I just do not believe all of it is James to eats

Good post Dwins.

Harrison loves football and wanted to play the little time he has left.
The steelers give him the impression he will see playing time and he does not.
He is an intense comptetitor and get's pissed and becomes an intense ass.
The Steelers don't budge.
He get's released and get's picked up by a team who can use him.

His goal was simply to play some football as he had expected to (and arguable should have) with the Steelers.

[lipps83]

Blame pie comes with many slices I just do not believe all of it is James to eats

This is my stance as well. I think it might just be easier for some to put all of the blame on Harrison since he is no longer part of their beloved Steelers. That makes him enemy numero uno.

It is much harder to blame those that are still in the family.

[Hawkman]

I have searched and haven’t found the article where Tomlin held Harrison out of camp “he’ll be ready”. I didn’t see James driving a fire truck into camp in 2017. I thought he was a little checked out. Don’t get me wrong I have always loved the man/the player. My favorite play..( even more than the 100 interception return) was the full body slam of the Browns fan who ran out on the field.......He was a true Captain Insano.:heh:

[hawaiiansteeler]

He is an intense comptetitor and get's pissed and becomes an intense ass.
The Steelers don't budge.


of course the Steelers aren't going to budge once Harrison decides to fall asleep in team meetings and become an intense ass with conduct detrimental to the team.

Deebo had the chance to remain professional, he chose not to. that's on him, I respect Harrison's athletic contributions as a player to the Steelers on the football field but unfortunately his actions at the end have left me with bittersweet emotions about him as a person. we can agree to disagree, this is simply how I feel...

[Dwinsgames]

I have searched and haven’t found the article where Tomlin held Harrison out of camp “he’ll be ready”. I didn’t see James driving a fire truck into camp in 2017. I thought he was a little checked out. Don’t get me wrong I have always loved the man/the player. My favorite play..( even more than the 100 interception return) was the full body slam of the Browns fan who ran out on the field.......He was a true Captain Insano.:heh:


it happened ....

here it wasnt so hard to find a simple google search and 2 mins and here is 1 of the times it was said ....


Providing opportunity:

James Harrisonhttp://www.steelers.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/james-harrison/f955db12-de79-47a3-9c61-d50c2583d49b/) has seen very limited action in practice during training camp, putting the pads on just once, when the team held their Family Fest practice at Heinz Field. Harrison, who works out maniacally on his own, doesn’t need the extra reps that Tomlin said benefits the younger players.

“Really at this junction, we have been working him off on the side,” said Tomlin. “It is less about James and more about providing opportunities for younger and developing guys. James is at the point in his career where he does not require a bunch of physical reps in order to be game ready. We are utilizing that for his good in terms of preservation. But also, the good of developing young guys like T.J. Watthttp://www.steelers.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/tj-watt/d2e2d598-4996-48fe-b65f-82cea17a0d84/). We will continue to monitor that. Those decisions are not made in a vacuum. Those decisions are made relative to him but also relative to the other guys of the group. The lines got a little short the other night, when we were in Pittsburgh so it was prudent to practice him. We will continue to play it by ear. I do not know what the future holds in regards to his participation. But rest assured that he will be getting on the moving train here at some point



and there is video of him saying it as well so do not take the printed word as the gospel , listen as it comes out of Tomlins mouth

http://www.steelers.com/news/press-conference-takes/article-1/Tomlins-takes-hit-on-preseason-Harrison/a40b42c0-c225-4f20-abbc-6e8e123620df

[teegre]

@hawaiinsteeler

I wonder what Mike Wallace is up to...

[hawaiiansteeler]

@hawaiinsteeler

I wonder what Mike Wallace is up to...

maybe we should dig up some old threads to find out :wink02:

[teegre]

maybe we should dig up some old threads to find out :wink02:

Let the bumping begin!!! :lol:

[Hawkman]

it happened ....

here it wasnt so hard to find a simple google search and 2 mins and here is 1 of the times it was said ....



and there is video of him saying it as well so do not take the printed word as the gospel , listen as it comes out of Tomlins mouth

http://www.steelers.com/news/press-conference-takes/article-1/Tomlins-takes-hit-on-preseason-Harrison/a40b42c0-c225-4f20-abbc-6e8e123620df


Thanks!

[GBMelBlount]

of course the Steelers aren't going to budge once Harrison decides to fall asleep in team meetings and become an intense ass with conduct detrimental to the team.

Deebo had the chance to remain professional, he chose not to. that's on him, I respect Harrison's athletic contributions as a player to the Steelers on the football field but unfortunately his actions at the end have left me with bittersweet emotions about him as a person. we can agree to disagree, this is simply how I feel...

Yes, and I COMPLETELY understand your viewpoint.

[Dwinsgames]

Yes, and I COMPLETELY understand your viewpoint.


yeah I get it too , I just refuse to put all the blame on him its still cause and effect for me ...

but at the end of the day thats fandom

Jerry Seinfield put it best


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we-L7w1K5Zo

[IowaSteeler927]

I'm still a bit perturbed with Harrison for going to the Patriots *. I mean c'mon man. Anybody but them and/or the Ravens. I mean Harrison is a guy that criticized New England for cheating, it's a little difficult to take your words seriously when you run off to a team you've openly criticized as cheaters in the past.

That being said, Deebo gave us a lot of great memories and at times was the embodiment of a Steelers defense. He always had a knack for coming up with some kind of game changing sack in the most critical situations. We cannot look past that. I think Harrison is a fiery, competitive guy, and I think he has a chip on his shoulder with a lot of fans and pundits saying he's too old, and too slow to keep playing at a high level. Trying to look at the situation without bias I can see why he wanted to leave, I can see where he wanted to prove everyone wrong.

I think if he had gone anywhere but New England it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is. While I still think he kind of sold out to go play with those cheating douchebags, I am choosing to remember him for what he did as a Steeler. We wouldn't of won Super Bowl 43 without #92. His accomplishments as a Steeler outweigh his poor (IMO) choices to go on hiatuses in Cinnci and New England.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think this is a great thread and I do understand both points of view.

I am just not sure what there is to get heated about.

So true. There is no loyalty in the NFL and especially by the structure that there are no guaranteed contracts, so I personally don't begrudge any player for moving on.

I think the Harrison situation leaves some fans a bit salty because he basically became a disruptive malcontent, to a team that gave him a shot after being cut 3 different times as a FA. Its compounded by going to a rival team. If the Steelers just suspended him for "conduct detrimental to the team" and didn't release him, then likely fans would not look at him this way. In the end, he was a defensive MVP, one of the great pass rushers in Steelers history and owns one of the signature plays in Super Bowl history.

For me, a couple games at the end of his career doesn't erase big hits like those on Colt McCoy and Joe Flacco, the pick 6 in the Super Bowl, beating Eric Fisher for sacks in playoff game and of course this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQhLL0FnMrM

[DesertSteel]

For me, loyalty has nothing to do with it. It's all about him being a cancer to his teammates in their goal to win a Super Bowl. Leaving the stadium, snoring in position meetings, etc. have nothing to do with loyalty. Him going to the Patriots made it even sweeter when they lost. I would never accept his type of behavior with my 12-year-old son so I'm sure not going to with a 40-year-old man.

I appreciate his play during his prime, but I simply have no respect for him.

[Dwinsgames]

For me, loyalty has nothing to do with it. It's all about him being a cancer to his teammates in their goal to win a Super Bowl. Leaving the stadium, snoring in position meetings, etc. have nothing to do with loyalty. Him going to the Patriots made it even sweeter when they lost. I would never accept his type of behavior with my 12-year-old son so I'm sure not going to with a 40-year-old man.

I appreciate his play during his prime, but I simply have no respect for him.


you do not feel as though some culpability goes to the staff ?

1) for leading him to believe he was being saved in camp for the regular season ( setting him up to be pissed off )

2) for permitting such behavior to begin with and not putting a stop to it from the get go ?


not trying to argue just trying to grasp your position better ...

as it seems to me its understandable he was upset and pissed off ( but agree he failed to handle it correctly )

it also seems to me that a well run coaching staff worth their salt would have pulled him aside and said look we will not condone that sort of thing around here and if it continues disciplinary action will have to be taken so we do not lose the respect of the rest of the team

[DesertSteel]

you do not feel as though some culpability goes to the staff ?

1) for leading him to believe he was being saved in camp for the regular season ( setting him up to be pissed off )

2) for permitting such behavior to begin with and not putting a stop to it from the get go ?


not trying to argue just trying to grasp your position better ...

as it seems to me its understandable he was upset and pissed off ( but agree he failed to handle it correctly )

it also seems to me that a well run coaching staff worth their salt would have pulled him aside and said look we will not condone that sort of thing around here and if it continues disciplinary action will have to be taken so we do not lose the respect of the rest of the teamBecause he didn't get to play? %#$^% No!!!!!! It's a game and a business. Watt made his services mostly unneeded. At the most he became an insurance policy. When you're 39 in the NFL that happens. There is no excuse. Zero. None. for quitting on your teammates. Would you allow your 10-12 year-old son to carry on that way if he wasn't getting to play?

As to discipline? I think instead of cutting him they should have suspended him the first time he left the stadium. That said, it doesn't make Harrison less culpable for his behavior.

[hawaiiansteeler]

you do not feel as though some culpability goes to the staff ?

1) for leading him to believe he was being saved in camp for the regular season ( setting him up to be pissed off )

2) for permitting such behavior to begin with and not putting a stop to it from the get go ?


not trying to argue just trying to grasp your position better ...

as it seems to me its understandable he was upset and pissed off ( but agree he failed to handle it correctly )

it also seems to me that a well run coaching staff worth their salt would have pulled him aside and said look we will not condone that sort of thing around here and if it continues disciplinary action will have to be taken so we do not lose the respect of the rest of the team

you touch on a great point and one I have never understood from the moment I heard about Deebo snoring in team meetings.

how in the world do Joey Porter, Keith Butler and Mike Tomlin allow this type of disruptive and disrespectful behavior and maintain respect from the other LBers and players on the team? I would have woke his ass up and told him to get the hell out of the room and suspended him one game for conduct detrimental to the team yet the Steelers coaches allowed this? :noidea:

[Dwinsgames]

you touch on a great point and one I have never understood from the moment I heard about Deebo snoring in team meetings.

how in the world do Joey Porter, Keith Butler and Mike Tomlin allow this type of disruptive and disrespectful behavior and maintain respect from the other LBers and players on the team? I would have woke his ass up and told him to get the hell out of the room and suspended him one game for conduct detrimental to the team yet the Steelers coaches allowed this? :noidea:


that in a nutshell is the 64 million dollar question ....

[Craic]

Why does snoring in team meetings mean a continues act? He falls asleep, he starts snoring, he gets woken up. It happens again on another day, he gets woken up and told later not to let it happen again. Unless I'm missing something, why does it have to be more than something that simple?

[Dwinsgames]

Why does snoring in team meetings mean a continues act? He falls asleep, he starts snoring, he gets woken up. It happens again on another day, he gets woken up and told later not to let it happen again. Unless I'm missing something, why does it have to be more than something that simple?

keep your ass awake LOL thats what it means , they are not going over a game plan for the sake of doing so ...its disrespectful to the organization , the team and the coaching staff to sleep through it ( but you knew that part already )

[teegre]

you touch on a great point and one I have never understood from the moment I heard about Deebo snoring in team meetings.

how in the world do Joey Porter, Keith Butler and Mike Tomlin allow this type of disruptive and disrespectful behavior and maintain respect from the other LBers and players on the team? I would have woke his ass up and told him to get the hell out of the room and suspended him one game for conduct detrimental to the team yet the Steelers coaches allowed this? :noidea:

I remember Cowher telling a story...

Cowher said that in all of his years of playing and coaching, he’d been around some big, mean mutha f*ckas, but he never felt fear... until he met James Harrison. When Harrison would knock on Cowher’s door and enter his office (even just to say “Hi”), Cowher would tense up & get chills.

So, as they say: Everyone thinks belling the cat is a great idea, until they are the one who has to actually to do it.

[Born2Steel]

I get Harrison's side of things. He retired to spend more time with his family after thoroughly hating his years in Cincy. The Steelers offer him a deal and bring him back, after he has made the decision to walk away. He signs up to play for 2 more years and the chance at another SuperBowl. Then in year 2, he's watching from the sidelines or not even getting a helmet on game day, and he's wondering why did he come back for this. That's frustrating. Especially after how difficult it had to be to retire the first time. Then to come back 'home' and they treat you like time to find grandpa a home. I really do get his side of things. But....Harrison chose to force the FO to release him by childish, selfish behavior in the team facility. He got his feelings hurt so he acted out and forced someone to take action.

Still, IMO, big freakin' deal. Sign him to a 1 day contract and let him retire as a Steeler. He deserves the Steelers Ring of Honor. I would wear a 92 Harrison jersey proudly to any Steeler's game.

[DesertSteel]

Why does snoring in team meetings mean a continues act? He falls asleep, he starts snoring, he gets woken up. It happens again on another day, he gets woken up and told later not to let it happen again. Unless I'm missing something, why does it have to be more than something that simple?
His TEAMMATES are the ones who made it a big deal :)

[Moose]

you touch on a great point and one I have never understood from the moment I heard about Deebo snoring in team meetings.

how in the world do Joey Porter, Keith Butler and Mike Tomlin allow this type of disruptive and disrespectful behavior and maintain respect from the other LBers and players on the team? I would have woke his ass up and told him to get the hell out of the room and suspended him one game for conduct detrimental to the team yet the Steelers coaches allowed this? :noidea:

The BOLD print is your answer ! 3 coaches that have NO discipline and poor coaching skills. Porter and Butler should have received 'walking papers' this past off season because of a pathetic defense. And Tomlin's ass should be 'smoldering' ! I agree with the other's ....Harrison should've been woke up and told to walk out.....and maybe a nice fine the next time. Poor example to the youngsters.

[tom444]

James Harrison is James Harrison. It doesn't matter whether he's lying on the turf in the end zone, during a Super Bowl, exhausted from carrying 275lbs and a football the length of the field, or putting on an enemy uniform. He did what he did, does what he does, and sometimes it works for him, and sometimes it doesn't.