When Bell signs his franchise tag, would you trade him for a 2nd and 4th round pick?

[Six Rings]

When Bell signs his franchise tag, would you trade him for a 2nd and 4th round pick?

[Shoes]

The only way I would keep Bell is if he signs a fair contract, (for both sides) before draft day. If he doesn't sign, I'd draft a RB and use or trade him, which ever benefited the team the most.

[Born2Steel]

I think Bell would have to be signed to a deal in order to be traded. He's not signing the tag until the last minute, and doesn't look like a long term deal is getting done before the draft.

[Six Rings]

I think Bell would have to be signed to a deal in order to be traded. He's not signing the tag until the last minute, and doesn't look like a long term deal is getting done before the draft.

Bell is all about the money. If he thinks he can be traded to a team who is willing to pay him more, he'll sign the tag.

The Dolphins moved Jarvis Landry on tag and trade. Bell knows what happened

[Mojouw]

Bell is all about the money. If he thinks he can be traded to a team who is willing to pay him more, he'll sign the tag.

The Dolphins moved Jarvis Landry on tag and trade. Bell knows what happened

and look what the compensation was. A 2 and a 4 is a fantasy. It is about leverage and if you try and trade a guy on the tag, you have sent a signal that you don’t have any. The best outcome is to ride this out with Bell. Hope he plays well on another 400 touch season in 2018 and then let him walk. Take your 3rd round comp pick and move on.

Assuming I got the comp pick issue correct, that is the baseline for any trade. Have to at least beat what the comp pick would be.

[Shoes]

and look what the compensation was. A 2 and a 4 is a fantasy. It is about leverage and if you try and trade a guy on the tag, you have sent a signal that you don’t have any. The best outcome is to ride this out with Bell. Hope he plays well on another 400 touch season in 2018 and then let him walk. Take your 3rd round comp pick and move on.

Assuming I got the comp pick issue correct, that is the baseline for any trade. Have to at least beat what the comp pick would be.

I believe we got a R3 comp for Wallace, so bell should be at least that.

[steelreserve]

They won't be able to trade him. He won't sign the tag until the day before the season, and by then nobody has $14.5M in cap space laying around, at least not the teams that could benefit from one year of Bell. And he is barred from signing a long-term deal at that point, so his desirability is even less. At that point, any team interested would be better off just waiting for him to hit the free agent market and bid top dollar plus 150% for him there, since that's basically going to be his negotiation process for re-signing anyway.

edit: They don't allow sign-and-trade deals in the NFL, but getting a trade-and-sign deal worked out on a wink, wink, nudge, nudge basis with be the only way I see any trade happening, which is pretty unlikely.

[86WARD]

I believe we got a R3 comp for Wallace, so bell should be at least that.
What was Emmanuel Sanders?

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Sign and trade deals aren't allowed, but permission can be given to a player/agent to negotiate with another team and if they can come to an agreement, then the trade is put into effect. Not a sign and trade deal in the literal sense, but a "agree to sign, trade and sign" deal.

[Dwinsgames]

I believe we got a R3 comp for Wallace, so bell should be at least that.


comp picks start at the end of round 3 ... that is the best anyone could expect for any player but is greatly dependent upon who you lose the deal they sign and who you sign and the playtime of those people as to what you get if anything in the form of compensatory selections ( no guarantees )

[Shoes]

What was Emmanuel Sanders?

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Sign and trade deals aren't allowed, but permission can be given to a player/agent to negotiate with another team and if they can come to an agreement, then the trade is put into effect. Not a sign and trade deal in the literal sense, but a "agree to sign, trade and sign" deal.

I believe they only got a R6.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-awarded-6th-round-compensatory-pick/c0b832a7-0fec-4c7a-9165-295c437d43b8

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comp picks start at the end of round 3 ... that is the best anyone could expect for any player but is greatly dependent upon who you lose the deal they sign and who you sign and the playtime of those people as to what you get if anything in the form of compensatory selections ( no guarantees )


That's what I was thinking since R3 is about the lowest round I've seen.

[Mojouw]

comp picks start at the end of round 3 ... that is the best anyone could expect for any player but is greatly dependent upon who you lose the deal they sign and who you sign and the playtime of those people as to what you get if anything in the form of compensatory selections ( no guarantees )


I believe they only got a R6.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-awarded-6th-round-compensatory-pick/c0b832a7-0fec-4c7a-9165-295c437d43b8

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That's what I was thinking since R3 is about the lowest round I've seen.

It seems that no one really understands what arcane wizardry the NFL uses to determine comp picks. However, the Ravens do seem to make an annual habit of having a ton of them. That means it must be something that NFL teams can approximate.

My understanding it is something to do with the value of FAs out being larger than the value of FAs in plus something about playing time.

Say Bell gets 8-12 million on the open market (I realize less than he wants, but market forces are market forces) -- anyone really think that the Steelers sign a bunch of high priced free agents? Plus Bell plays a ludicrous # of snaps each season.

So while nothing is guaranteed, if I'm Colbert I'm figuring there is a 60% or more chance that I have a 3rd or 4th round 2019 comp pick in my pocket at this point. I made the cap space to pay Bell for 2018. What incentive does Colbert have to put Bell on the market for anything less than a 3rd and something else? Conversely, what incentive does any team have to pony up a 3rd round + to trade for Bell? There is little motivation for a mutually agreeable trade to be worked out. It is why Seattle wasn't able to trade Sherman and likely won't be able to trade Thomas and was able to trade Bennett away for pennies on the dollar. That's what a Bell trade would have to be -- heavily discounted value on the Steelers side of the negotiating table. At this point - why?

[st33lersguy]

I say rescind the tag an let Bell walk to a team dumb enough to overpay for his child-like antics. His age suggests he's an adult, but really maturity wise, he's nothing but a spoiled teenage brat. He's not going to sign the tag before the start of September. I say let him go, that's better than him spending all of training camp drawing attention to himself as he bitches about how much of a tragedy it is that he was offered $13 million a year instead of $17 million a year. I know this may come a shock to Bell, but the whole world doesn't revolve around him, they need cap space to sign other players on the team. They'll never sign him without breaking the bank and leaving little room for other players.

[pczach]

It seems that no one really understands what arcane wizardry the NFL uses to determine comp picks. However, the Ravens do seem to make an annual habit of having a ton of them. That means it must be something that NFL teams can approximate.

My understanding it is something to do with the value of FAs out being larger than the value of FAs in plus something about playing time.

Say Bell gets 8-12 million on the open market (I realize less than he wants, but market forces are market forces) -- anyone really think that the Steelers sign a bunch of high priced free agents? Plus Bell plays a ludicrous # of snaps each season.

So while nothing is guaranteed, if I'm Colbert I'm figuring there is a 60% or more chance that I have a 3rd or 4th round 2019 comp pick in my pocket at this point. I made the cap space to pay Bell for 2018. What incentive does Colbert have to put Bell on the market for anything less than a 3rd and something else? Conversely, what incentive does any team have to pony up a 3rd round + to trade for Bell? There is little motivation for a mutually agreeable trade to be worked out. It is why Seattle wasn't able to trade Sherman and likely won't be able to trade Thomas and was able to trade Bennett away for pennies on the dollar. That's what a Bell trade would have to be -- heavily discounted value on the Steelers side of the negotiating table. At this point - why?


I hear what you're saying. You're probably right that they won't get anyone to give up what they want for him, but Bennett was traded away for a song because he has a big contract and he's 32 years old.

Sherman was traded away for nothing because he's coming off of both Achilles being injured, he's 29 years old, and he plays the position where ultimate athleticism and movement skills is a must. He's a huge risk to invest a lot in.

Bell is 26, in his prime, and is the best, most complete running back in the NFL that is averaging about 130 yards from scrimmage per game for his career.

I don't know what the Steelers could get for Bell, but you can't really compare what Seattle got for an old player like Bennett or damaged goods like Sherman to the best RB in football in his prime.

All this discussion probably won't matter anyway. He'll most likely be the franchise player and be gone after this year.

[Mojouw]

I hear what you're saying. You're probably right that they won't get anyone to give up what they want for him, but Bennett was traded away for a song because he has a big contract and he's 32 years old.

Sherman was traded away for nothing because he's coming off of both Achilles being injured, he's 29 years old, and he plays the position where ultimate athleticism and movement skills is a must. He's a huge risk to invest a lot in.

Bell is 26, in his prime, and is the best, most complete running back in the NFL that is averaging about 130 yards from scrimmage per game for his career.

I don't know what the Steelers could get for Bell, but you can't really compare what Seattle got for an old player like Bennett or damaged goods like Sherman to the best RB in football in his prime.

All this discussion probably won't matter anyway. He'll most likely be the franchise player and be gone after this year.

Those are legit and fair points! But the 'Phins also got a 4 and a 7 for Landry across two drafts. What did the Steelers get for Santonio awhile back?

The Titans only had to move back like a dozen spots in the 4th round of the draft to get Demarco Murray one season removed from winning OPY.

My only point is that once the other GM's know you want a guy out - the bottom falls out of the market. Why did the Steelers suddenly get connected to all those rumored Bryant trades when things went sour last season? Because GMs smelled blood and thought they could get a guy that could help their team for a discounted cost.

Plus the whole argument goes in a circle, really. If there was enough of a demand out there that Bell would net a 2nd and 4th round pick, then isn't he worth 14.5 million or more to the Steelers? I mean those are QB or #1 WR level draft compensations in trade value. Which brings is into the neighborhood that Bell wants to sign for...

You are right, none of this matters because he will play on the tag this year and be some other message board's problem next year. Of course knowing this place, he will be a constant topic even after he leaves the team...

[pczach]

Those are legit and fair points! But the 'Phins also got a 4 and a 7 for Landry across two drafts. What did the Steelers get for Santonio awhile back?

The Titans only had to move back like a dozen spots in the 4th round of the draft to get Demarco Murray one season removed from winning OPY.

My only point is that once the other GM's know you want a guy out - the bottom falls out of the market. Why did the Steelers suddenly get connected to all those rumored Bryant trades when things went sour last season? Because GMs smelled blood and thought they could get a guy that could help their team for a discounted cost.

Plus the whole argument goes in a circle, really. If there was enough of a demand out there that Bell would net a 2nd and 4th round pick, then isn't he worth 14.5 million or more to the Steelers? I mean those are QB or #1 WR level draft compensations in trade value. Which brings is into the neighborhood that Bell wants to sign for...

You are right, none of this matters because he will play on the tag this year and be some other message board's problem next year. Of course knowing this place, he will be a constant topic even after he leaves the team...


You are absolutely correct about value dropping dramatically when teams know you no longer want a player.

In a perfect world, the team is able to fill their needs in free agency and the draft, run Bell into the ground, and win the Super Bowl this coming year. When he leaves, the team is talented and deep, his huge cap hit is gone, and they are able to draft a stud RB to take his place and chase more championships.

A guy can dream....right?

[Mojouw]

You are absolutely correct about value dropping dramatically when teams know you no longer want a player.

In a perfect world, the team is able to fill their needs in free agency and the draft, run Bell into the ground, and win the Super Bowl this coming year. When he leaves, the team is talented and deep, his huge cap hit is gone, and they are able to draft a stud RB to take his place and chase more championships.

A guy can dream....right?

Who knows about the SB -- too many variables to account for -- but the rest of it is entirely reasonable.

[j-d-s]

It seems that no one really understands what arcane wizardry the NFL uses to determine comp picks. However, the Ravens do seem to make an annual habit of having a ton of them. That means it must be something that NFL teams can approximate.

My understanding it is something to do with the value of FAs out being larger than the value of FAs in plus something about playing time.

Say Bell gets 8-12 million on the open market (I realize less than he wants, but market forces are market forces) -- anyone really think that the Steelers sign a bunch of high priced free agents? Plus Bell plays a ludicrous # of snaps each season.

So while nothing is guaranteed, if I'm Colbert I'm figuring there is a 60% or more chance that I have a 3rd or 4th round 2019 comp pick in my pocket at this point. I made the cap space to pay Bell for 2018. What incentive does Colbert have to put Bell on the market for anything less than a 3rd and something else? Conversely, what incentive does any team have to pony up a 3rd round + to trade for Bell? There is little motivation for a mutually agreeable trade to be worked out. It is why Seattle wasn't able to trade Sherman and likely won't be able to trade Thomas and was able to trade Bennett away for pennies on the dollar. That's what a Bell trade would have to be -- heavily discounted value on the Steelers side of the negotiating table. At this point - why?
From what I've heard comp picks come largely down to salary of the player that left, at least in determining who gets the top comp picks (those are at the end of R3).

Bell should be at the top or near the top with his 14.5 million contract.

[ALLD]

She should have signed the LT deal and got a trade. Some team will pay him in 2019, but it most likely won't be a contender, not that the Steelers are locks anymore.