Mayock: Boise State ILB Leighton Vander Esch Would Be ‘Great Fit’ For Steelers

[Shoes]

BY DAVE BRYAN (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/davebryan/) FEBRUARY 26, 2018 AT 03:51 PM
The Pittsburgh Steelers will almost assuredly spend an early selection in the 2018 NFL Draft on an inside linebacker due to the serious spine injury suffered last season by starter Ryan Shazier. Because of that position being high on the Steelers need list this year, NFL draft analyst Mike Mayock was asked during his annual pre-combine conference call with the media to name a player that might still be on the board in the first-round when Pittsburgh picks 28th overall.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/02/mayock-boise-state-ilb-leighton-vander-esch-great-fit-steelers/

[Steeldude]

Everything is riding on his 40 time.

[teegre]

Many have stated: “If only Matakevich had more speed...”

Well, that is basically who Vander Esch is: a faster version of Matakevich.

[Shoes]

Many have stated: “If only Matakevich had more speed...”

Well, that is basically who Vander Esch is: a faster version of Matakevich.

Not a thing wrong with that!

[teegre]

Not a thing wrong with that!

:nod:

[BlackAndGold]

968235529413316610

Like above, I want to see what he runs.

[Mojouw]

I'll agree with the emerging consensus. I try to avoid being a big "OMG!!! Look at the COMBINE #'s!!!! This kid is AMAAAAAZZZZIIINNNNG!!!"....but....I think it is super critical for Vander Esch. It is just hard to get a good handle on what kinda athlete he is. In fact it is kinda hard to get a good handle on anything about this guy because he is just so inexperienced at the position and there is just a bunch of unknowns.

More than the raw triangle #'s, I want to see more of the positional drill results and how well does he really move through traffic?

I was not a fan of this kid earlier (like even a week or so ago) when folks brought him up, but the more I read and the more I watch...the more I want to graciously ask for room to made on the hype train for me!

Whatta you say, Teegre, you've been banging the drum pretty good for this kid...room for a convert?

[SteelMember]

968235529413316610

Like above, I want to see what he runs.

But, I see you've already updated your Early Mock Draft from Evans... Are you already on the train without the run, or is this just your Steelers Universe Mock Draft Contest head fake?!?! :chuckle:

[BlackAndGold]

But, I see you've already updated your Early Mock Draft from Evans... Are you already on the train without the run, or is this just your Steelers Universe Mock Draft Contest head fake?!?! :chuckle:

Both lol

Honestly I've warmed to to LVE the past couple of weeks. I like Evans from Bama but the Steelers have not drafted a player from Alabama since Townsend in 98', also I'm not sure he'll make it to #28 after his combine workout.

Also, anyone know's me back from Steelers Fever knows I change my mock a lot

[st33lersguy]

Here's the thing
Strike 1: He's a catchers mit as a tackled
Strike 2: He has trouble shedding blockers
Both things out him at risk of being bowled over by an nfl power run game.

As far as I'm concerned if he isn't fast, it's strike 3.
I'll continue to maintain they need a fast ilb that can cover and shed blocks

[Shoes]

I'll agree with the emerging consensus. I try to avoid being a big "OMG!!! Look at the COMBINE #'s!!!! This kid is AMAAAAAZZZZIIINNNNG!!!"....but....I think it is super critical for Vander Esch. It is just hard to get a good handle on what kinda athlete he is. In fact it is kinda hard to get a good handle on anything about this guy because he is just so inexperienced at the position and there is just a bunch of unknowns.

More than the raw triangle #'s, I want to see more of the positional drill results and how well does he really move through traffic?

I was not a fan of this kid earlier (like even a week or so ago) when folks brought him up, but the more I read and the more I watch...the more I want to graciously ask for room to made on the hype train for me!

Whatta you say, Teegre, you've been banging the drum pretty good for this kid...room for a convert?

Sounds like what many said about TJ last year. :chuckle:

[teegre]

I'll agree with the emerging consensus. I try to avoid being a big "OMG!!! Look at the COMBINE #'s!!!! This kid is AMAAAAAZZZZIIINNNNG!!!"....but....I think it is super critical for Vander Esch. It is just hard to get a good handle on what kinda athlete he is. In fact it is kinda hard to get a good handle on anything about this guy because he is just so inexperienced at the position and there is just a bunch of unknowns.

More than the raw triangle #'s, I want to see more of the positional drill results and how well does he really move through traffic?

I was not a fan of this kid earlier (like even a week or so ago) when folks brought him up, but the more I read and the more I watch...the more I want to graciously ask for room to made on the hype train for me!

Whatta you say, Teegre, you've been banging the drum pretty good for this kid...room for a convert?

Jump on, brother. :nod:

[Mojouw]

Sounds like what many said about TJ last year. :chuckle:
My new “dream” scenario is that Lamar Jackson is available at 28 and some top 12 or so second round team wants to trade back into the first round and take Jackson. Steelers then get a TJ Watt 2.0 at the top of the 2nd and pick up a 3rd or 4th round pick in the process!

- - - Updated - - -


Jump on, brother. :nod:
I’m thinking about jumping on full bore!!

[teegre]

My new “dream” scenario is that Lamar Jackson is available at 28 and some top 12 or so second round team wants to trade back into the first round and take Jackson. Steelers then get a TJ Watt 2.0 at the top of the 2nd and pick up a 3rd or 4th round pick in the process!

- - - Updated - - -


I’m thinking about jumping on full bore!!

Watt 2.0
:nod:
“one year wonder”
“switched positions/still learning to play”
“looks slow”

Lamar Jackson
I’d be verrry tempted to draft Jackson. But, trading would be a realistic possibility, because there’s a strong possibility that the Taperiots draft Jackson (coach him up for a few years, and he takes over when Brady retires).

You know who else was not “worthy” of a late-R1 pick? Watt :wink02:

Lastly...
All Aboard!!!

[teegre]

Here's the thing
Strike 1: He's a catchers mit as a tackled
Strike 2: He has trouble shedding blockers
Both things out him at risk of being bowled over by an nfl power run game.

As far as I'm concerned if he isn't fast, it's strike 3.
I'll continue to maintain they need a fast ilb that can cover and shed blocks

Strike 1:
Donnie Edwards made a career out of being a catcher’s mitt. Admittedly, LVE doesn’t make many tackles behind the LOS. And, if those tackles are 3-4 yards past the LOS, then meh. But, for the most part, LVE makes those tackles between 1-2 yards past the LOS.

2 yards, 2 yards, 3rd-&-6.

Strike 2:
Once an O-lineman gets his hands on LVE, he does seem to have some trouble disengaging. But, navigating through traffic is actually one of his strengths; he always seems to “sneak” through the congestion.

[st33lersguy]

Strike 1:
Donnie Edwards made a career out of being a catcher’s mitt. Admittedly, LVE doesn’t make many tackles behind the LOS. And, if those tackles are 3-4 yards past the LOS, then meh. But, for the most part, LVE makes those tackles between 1-2 yards past the LOS.

2 yards, 2 yards, 3rd-&-6.

Strike 2:
Once an O-lineman gets his hands on LVE, he does seem to have some trouble disengaging. But, navigating through traffic is actually one of his strengths; he always seems to “sneak” through the congestion.

Except for strike 1, the backs are bigger, stronger, and better at getting extra yards in the NFL than college, so 1-2 yards could turn into 3-4 yards without more drive on the tackle. As for strike 2, the linemen are better and faster. He won't be able to rely on avoiding traffic in the NFL, more so without a lot of speed, he's going to have to learn to shed blocks in the pros

[teegre]

Except for strike 1, the backs are bigger, stronger, and better at getting extra yards in the NFL than college, so 1-2 yards could turn into 3-4 yards without more drive on the tackle. As for strike 2, the linemen are better and faster. He won't be able to rely on avoiding traffic in the NFL, more so without a lot of speed, he's going to have to learn to shed blocks in the pros

Strike 1:
Except for the DEs and NT paving the way for Vander Esch will also be bigger, stronger, and better at slowing down running backs.

Strike 2:
Except for the DEs and NT paving the way for Vander Esch will also be bigger, stronger, and better at freeing up their linebackers.

[st33lersguy]

I know the guy has ardent supporters, but he just doesn't seem like someone you want defending against the inside power run game. It seems like if he was in on the 4th and goal from the 1 against Jacksonville instead of Spence, Jacksonville still scores the TD.

[teegre]

I know the guy has ardent supporters, but he just doesn't seem like someone you want defending against the inside power run game. It seems like if he was in on the 4th and goal from the 1 against Jacksonville instead of Spence, Jacksonville still scores the TD.

1) I don’t know where to locate the statistic, but PFF listed Vander Esch as the third-best run-stopper innthe NCAA (first in this draft). It’s PFF... so, take that as you will.

2) IMO, if Matakevich is playing on that 4th-&-1, he stops Fournette. (Alas, he had a shoulder injury.) Spence hit Fournette, but simply could not stop him.

Vander Esch > Matakevich > Spence

[Steeldude]

Did he opt out of the 40?

[Born2Steel]

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13372555-74/linebacker-prospect-leighton-vander-esch-playing-for-steelers-would-mean-everything

Fantastic read.

[Steeldude]

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13372555-74/linebacker-prospect-leighton-vander-esch-playing-for-steelers-would-mean-everything

Fantastic read.

Hopefully those extra 16lbs don't slow him down. I would rather have 240lbs and fast than 256lbs and slow. If he doesn't run in the mid 4.6's or better he won't be worth taking in the early rounds, IMO. The Steelers need a good or better starting ILB, not an average one.

[BlackAndGold]

Per Tony Pauline (He's pretty good at this stuff)

According to teams, Leighton Vander Esch has been crushing interviews and continues to impress people. After weighing in at 256 pounds and completing 20 reps on the bench, the Boise State linebacker is hoping to run under 4.7 in the 40-yard dash. Truth be told, anything at or below 4.75 would be a great time. I’ve been told the Green Bay Packers are very high on Vander Esch and that he won’t get past the Pittsburgh Steelers in Round 1.

http://draftanalyst.com/combine-notes-day-5

[Mojouw]

Let's see their #'s from the individual tests and drills later today, but Darius Leonard is so far a physical clone of Edmunds and Vander Esch in a 3rd round package.

Rnd. 1 - Edge or Safety
Rnd. 2 - BPA
Rnd 3. - ILB solution

[teegre]

LVE likes the Steelers. I wonder if it’s reciprocal.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13372555-74/linebacker-prospect-leighton-vander-esch-playing-for-steelers-would-mean-everything

[teegre]

Per Tony Pauline (He's pretty good at this stuff)


http://draftanalyst.com/combine-notes-day-5

The entire situation sounds a LOT like TJ Watt from last draft.

-position switch
-one “good” year
-not fast in shorts (plays faster)
-connected with Green Bay’s R1 pick

[Shoes]

LVE likes the Steelers. I wonder if it’s reciprocal.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13372555-74/linebacker-prospect-leighton-vander-esch-playing-for-steelers-would-mean-everything


They gave him a formal interview because they liked what they saw on film, he has a solid off field history and is a heck of a nice young man. Sounds like TJ to me, so I'd say Yes!

[teegre]

They gave him a formal interview because they liked what they saw on film, he has a solid off field history and is a heck of a nice young man. Sounds like TJ to me, so I'd say Yes!

:nod:

[st33lersguy]

Ran an unofficial 4.66

- - - Updated - - -

Leonard ran 4.70 a little concerning

- - - Updated - - -

Leonard ran 4.70 a little concerning

[teegre]

Ran an unofficial 4.66

- - - Updated - - -

Leonard ran 4.70 a little concerning


Neither of those times concern me.

The drill I want to see is the 3-cone drill. Getting under 7.0 in that drill is far more important.

[st33lersguy]

Neither of those times concern me.

The drill I want to see is the 3-cone drill. Getting under 7.0 in that drill is far more important.

Not concerned about LVE's time as that was around where it was expected. I thought Leonard would run faster, though he isn't doing position drills so he may have pulled something.

- - - Updated - - -

On position drills I think he did well overall. Feet were a little choppy moving laterally one drill, but got nice depth dropping back into coverage

[st33lersguy]

Ran an unofficial 4.66

- - - Updated - - -

Leonard ran 4.70 a little concerning

- - - Updated - - -

Leonard ran 4.70 a little concerning

Lve official 40 4.65. Leonard same as unofficial

[teegre]

Not concerned about LVE's time as that was around where it was expected. I thought Leonard would run faster, though he isn't doing position drills so he may have pulled something.

- - - Updated - - -

On position drills I think he did well overall. Feet were a little choppy moving laterally one drill, but got nice depth dropping back into coverage

Thanks for the update.

His coverage skills are probably his biggest asset.

[Mojouw]

Neither of those times concern me.

The drill I want to see is the 3-cone drill. Getting under 7.0 in that drill is far more important.

Here is what is soooooooooooo ridiculous.

Look at Shazier's pro day and combine #'s - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/ryan-shazier. They are simply the #'s of an alien being from another planet. Not really relevant comparisons for a ILB prospect.

4.7 and 4.6 are a bit disappointing, but most of the "name" prospects in this class ran 4.5-4.6. So it is what it is...

[Born2Steel]

Here is what is soooooooooooo ridiculous.

Look at Shazier's pro day and combine #'s - https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/ryan-shazier. They are simply the #'s of an alien being from another planet. Not really relevant comparisons for a ILB prospect.

4.7 and 4.6 are a bit disappointing, but most of the "name" prospects in this class ran 4.5-4.6. So it is what it is...

He measured at 6'4" and 256lbs. Once he's down to 235-245lbs and gets into the strength program, he should get a little bit faster than his combine numbers.
I'm still keeping an eye on Jerome baker as well. Shaq Griffen is this year's ILB/Safety hybrid to watch.

[teegre]

Here’s an interesting comparison:

DRILL: Watt - LVE
vertical: 37 - 39.5
broad: 128 - 124
three-cone: 6.79 - 6.88
short shuttle: 4.13 - 4.15
height: 6’2” - 6’4”
weight: 252 - 256

[Mojouw]

Here’s an interesting comparison:

DRILL: Watt - LVE
vertical: 37 - 39.5
broad: 128 - 124
three-cone: 6.79 - 6.88
short shuttle: 4.13 - 4.15
height: 6’2” - 6’4”
weight: 252 - 256

Makes me wonder about a question I asked in another thread. Who is the best ILB right now? Likely the guy from Georgia and then the kid from 'Bama. Who is the better backer in 3 years? Likely still the dude from Georgia, but does LVE overtake the 'Bama guy by then?

And what about Malik Jefferson? Had an amazing combine -- just doesn't have the same level of game tape laid down...

[teegre]

Makes me wonder about a question I asked in another thread. Who is the best ILB right now? Likely the guy from Georgia and then the kid from 'Bama. Who is the better backer in 3 years? Likely still the dude from Georgia, but does LVE overtake the 'Bama guy by then?

And what about Malik Jefferson? Had an amazing combine -- just doesn't have the same level of game tape laid down...

I think you’re right. Roquan is and will be the best ILB in this draft. Rashaan is the second-best right now, but I see Leighton surpassing him.

The wild cards are Tremaine & Malik. Tremaine is less of a risk; he’s just young. But, as we discussed elsewhere, Malik might just not be very smart (but, who actually knows).

[Mojouw]

I think you’re right. Roquan is and will be the best ILB in this draft. Rashaan is the second-best right now, but I see Leighton surpassing him.

The wild cards are Tremaine & Malik. Tremaine is less of a risk; he’s just young. But, as we discussed elsewhere, Malik might just not be very smart (but, who actually knows).

Two other wildcards are Leonard and Lorenzo Carter. Film for both looks good and Carter had a darn good combine. I wonder if you could get yourself Lawrence Timmons 2.0 if you moved Carter inside?

Plus, here is a name that we just haven't talked about. And I bet you can get him for a song - Jack Cichy LB Wisconsin. Two years ago, kid just ripped through the Big 10 like it wasn't even hard. Then had a pec and an ACL tear. But still...Cichy in the 7th? Worst case - he just never makes it back and you cut him. Best case, you have Jewell at a bargain price.

[teegre]

Two other wildcards are Leonard and Lorenzo Carter. Film for both looks good and Carter had a darn good combine. I wonder if you could get yourself Lawrence Timmons 2.0 if you moved Carter inside?

Plus, here is a name that we just haven't talked about. And I bet you can get him for a song - Jack Cichy LB Wisconsin. Two years ago, kid just ripped through the Big 10 like it wasn't even hard. Then had a pec and an ACL tear. But still...Cichy in the 7th? Worst case - he just never makes it back and you cut him. Best case, you have Jewell at a bargain price.

Darius had a great Senior Bowl; he seemed to make EVERY tackle. Lorenzo looks a lot like Leonard Floyd.

Great call. Jack Cichy (much like Shaun Dion Hamilton) could be a steal for a team willing to spend a Day 3 pick on him.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Two other wildcards are Leonard and Lorenzo Carter. Film for both looks good and Carter had a darn good combine. I wonder if you could get yourself Lawrence Timmons 2.0 if you moved Carter inside?

Plus, here is a name that we just haven't talked about. And I bet you can get him for a song - Jack Cichy LB Wisconsin. Two years ago, kid just ripped through the Big 10 like it wasn't even hard. Then had a pec and an ACL tear. But still...Cichy in the 7th? Worst case - he just never makes it back and you cut him. Best case, you have Jewell at a bargain price.

I second that on Cichy. NFL is still sleeping on Badger defenders

[Mojouw]

I second that on Cichy. NFL is still sleeping on Badger defenders

Leon Jacobs had a hell of a combine. Not sure I see him as a legit edge rusher, but again what about kicking him inside at the pro level? I seem to remember him making more than a few plays in coverage this past season...but maybe my memory is fuzzier than usual tonight!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Combine standout Shaquem Griffin fits Steelers' need for speed

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/270236/steelers-may-look-to-add-combine-standout-shaquem-griffin

[Mojouw]

Combine standout Shaquem Griffin fits Steelers' need for speed

Jeremy Fowler
ESPN Staff Writer

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/270236/steelers-may-look-to-add-combine-standout-shaquem-griffin

I absolutely love this kid's story. It is simply amazing. He wrote a great piece in the Player's Tribune prior to the combine detailing his struggles and challenges. Offered insight into how great a person and a hard worker the guy truly is. All that being said -- how good is Griffen at actually making plays? His stat line was productive in college, but who did they play? One "elite" team in Auburn for their bowl game. Griffin had 6 tackles and 1.5 sacks. So maybe it is legit?

Anyone know anything about this kid?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Darius had a great Senior Bowl; he seemed to make EVERY tackle. Lorenzo looks a lot like Leonard Floyd.

Great call. Jack Cichy (much like Shaun Dion Hamilton) could be a steal for a team willing to spend a Day 3 pick on him.

I watched VanderEsch game vs BYU and he looks like a long strider, feet are not as quick and change of direction/acceleration not what I would like to see at ILB with Steelers. I honestly think Vince Williams is a quicker ILB than him from what is on tape. Maybe its the 250LBS, but what is his playing weight going to be? He looked very fluid in his combine field drills and is a solid athlete, but the tape isn't that impressive IMO.

Darius Leonard on the other hand seems quicker to the ball, accelerates once he makes his read, has proven to be productive and like you say had a great week at the Senior Bowl against other future NFL players. If the Steelers pass on Vander Esch I would not be heartbroken. If they pick him, they must have some kind of developmental plan with him for sure.

[Steeldude]

Can Leonard play ILB in the NFL at 213lbs? Or is that a typo on the NFL Combine page?

[Mojouw]

Can Leonard play ILB in the NFL at 213lbs? Or is that a typo on the NFL Combine page?

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/darius-leonard?id=32462018-0002-5598-185a-4784aff66bfa

This indicates he was up to 234 over the combine. That oughta be big enough if he can maintain quickness.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/darius-leonard?id=32462018-0002-5598-185a-4784aff66bfa

This indicates he was up to 234 over the combine. That oughta be big enough if he can maintain quickness.
Yeah and his Senior Bowl stat was 6'2" 229Lbs. Below is LVE vs Wyoming and if somebody can show me something really impressive, please do. Vander Esch is in coverage a lot, but when he does come up to support run, it looks as if he gets engulfed by the O lineman a lot and seems to lumber IMO. The 2:00 minute mark, he misses a tackle in space on Josh Allen. I know that Allen is a good athlete, but if he cant finish the tackle against an athletic QB in space, I really don't expect much against an NFL RB.

Maybe I need to see the tape that Mayock is looking at, because he is starting to look like a workout warrior to me from the BYU and Wyoming games.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SLLvxiGFhs

[teegre]

I watched VanderEsch game vs BYU and he looks like a long strider, feet are not as quick and change of direction/acceleration not what I would like to see at ILB with Steelers. I honestly think Vince Williams is a quicker ILB than him from what is on tape. Maybe its the 250LBS, but what is his playing weight going to be? He looked very fluid in his combine field drills and is a solid athlete, but the tape isn't that impressive IMO.

SteelersCanada agrees with you. :wink02:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

SteelersCanada agrees with you. :wink02: OK, :noidea:

I know we didn't evaluate Demarcus Van Dyke the same way. I thought Javon Kearse was just a tweener, Jarvis Jones was all hustle and no speed or moves and Mantei T'eo was all hype, so my LB evaluation is all over the place. I'm just not getting the hype with LVE. On paper he's a 1st round talent, on tape he is a 3rd round project.

[hawaiiansteeler]

2018 NFL Draft Rumors

by Walter Football

28. Pittsburgh Steelers:

3/4: The Packers like Leighton Vander Esch, and he won't last beyond the Steelers. - Tony Pauline, DraftAnalyst.com
Pauline is also reporting that Vander Esch has been interviewing extremely well in Indianapolis. His stock is definitely pointing up. -Walter

2/27: "I'm told the Steelers already have started doing their draft due diligence on Boise State LB Leighton Vander Esch, whom analysts are pegging to the Steelers at No. 28 overall." - Jeremy Fowler, ESPN
Vander Esch is a late first-round prospect, so he would make sense for the Steelers at No. 28, as Pittsburgh needs to fill Ryan Shazier's void. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors/teamdraft/17-32

[Steeldude]

Yeah and his Senior Bowl stat was 6'2" 229Lbs. Below is LVE vs Wyoming and if somebody can show me something really impressive, please do. Vander Esch is in coverage a lot, but when he does come up to support run, it looks as if he gets engulfed by the O lineman a lot and seems to lumber IMO. The 2:00 minute mark, he misses a tackle in space on Josh Allen. I know that Allen is a good athlete, but if he cant finish the tackle against an athletic QB in space, I really don't expect much against an NFL RB.

Maybe I need to see the tape that Mayock is looking at, because he is starting to look like a workout warrior to me from the BYU and Wyoming games.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SLLvxiGFhs

Well if he misses tackles he should fit right in. Haha

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Well if he misses tackles he should fit right in. Haha

Yeah, when he gets there he makes the tackle, but getting juked in the open field by a 247 lb QB is pretty JV and not enough Varsity IMO.

Watch these "official Boise St Highlights" of him. He is good in coverage, but the tackles he makes are well beyond the LOS. The sacks he gets are either uncontested or because they have a 200lb RB on him that cant block. IMO his pass defense is the best part of his game, but his film on tackling in the run game is no better than Sean Spence. I'm sure somebody will draft him high, but I just don't see it in the videos that I watched. Maybe I didn't see his good games :noidea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uohb0_zIEA

[Mojouw]

Yeah and his Senior Bowl stat was 6'2" 229Lbs. Below is LVE vs Wyoming and if somebody can show me something really impressive, please do. Vander Esch is in coverage a lot, but when he does come up to support run, it looks as if he gets engulfed by the O lineman a lot and seems to lumber IMO. The 2:00 minute mark, he misses a tackle in space on Josh Allen. I know that Allen is a good athlete, but if he cant finish the tackle against an athletic QB in space, I really don't expect much against an NFL RB.

Maybe I need to see the tape that Mayock is looking at, because he is starting to look like a workout warrior to me from the BYU and Wyoming games.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SLLvxiGFhs

That is not an impressive series of snaps. But there are positives there.

1. He does look "lumbering" at points. I think it is because he is so new to the position and lacks the technical details, so its all athletic ability and very little instincts and recognition. Moves like a player who doesn't trust what he is seeing and what his brain is telling him. Very mechanical - leads to choppy steps rather than just getting out there, picking a direction, and getting to a spot. You can see in a few plays where he just decides to turn and go and he looks far more fluid. So LVE clearly can move very well, he just looks like he doesn't always trust things. So Raw. Very Raw?

By the Bowl Game, Wyoming was about mid-season, LVE looks a bit more fluid and is demonstrating more of an ability to slide across the face of OL to slip blocks - https://youtu.be/9V8dZI_HZX8. While that is still not 9 minutes of domination or anything, it does show a player who looks for decisive and "playmakey" than in the Wyoming film. But, man alive, someone needs to teach this kid that at 6'4" or whatever, he has got to come into tackles and blocks lower. Leverage young man, leverage.

[SteelMember]

I'm not a buyer yet either, but if Teegre is gonna make Watt comparisons, I'm at least looking in the window. :chuckle:

I think Evans is way smoother... Gun to my head, I'm still taking him as the rd1 LB if available.

[Mojouw]

Yeah, when he gets there he makes the tackle, but getting juked in the open field by a 247 lb QB is pretty JV and not enough Varsity IMO.

Watch these "official Boise St Highlights" of him. He is good in coverage, but the tackles he makes are well beyond the LOS. The sacks he gets are either uncontested or because they have a 200lb RB on him that cant block. IMO his pass defense is the best part of his game, but his film on tackling in the run game is no better than Sean Spence. I'm sure somebody will draft him high, but I just don't see it in the videos that I watched. Maybe I didn't see his good games :noidea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uohb0_zIEA

I think with LVE in comparison to Evans or Smith, what you are rolling the dice on is what is he as a player in year 2-5 of his rookie deal? Because he certainly will not have the immediate impact of either of those 2. I suspect many teams see his speed and length roaming the middle of the field and they are picturing a player that in a base defense can move with TEs down the seam, maybe a slot WR or two, definitely most RBs, etc. This then allows teams to play more base rather than sub packages. My feeling is that teams are gambling on his raw athletic ability and hoping they can mold him in to what they need.

If I learned anything from last season, it is the NFL is all about stressing defenses horizontally right now. Spread teams out and pull formations apart until something breaks. The only counter that teams seem to have right now is to collect as many rangy athletes at the LB level as they can and hope for the best. I think most NFL teams are willing to trade the ability to take on blocks, breakdown and fill holes around the LOS for the ability to move well in space, make plays on the ball, and turn and run with the ridiculous athletes that offenses are turning loose at the short to intermediate levels of the defense. It isn't so much that teams don't see a value to taking on blockers or excellent run fits, but more that they are hoping they can teach a good athlete to do those things, while they can't teach a guy like Matakevich to be taller and faster.

Are they right? Who knows. But I do know that if the Steelers want LVE, it has to be in the first round. While he may be a "reach" there, he certainly will not be on the board at their 2nd round pick. I am still hoping for a trade back into the top of the 2nd. Say the Giants take Chubb second over all and then trade back with the Steelers to get Mason Rudolph or something...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is not an impressive series of snaps. But there are positives there.

1. He does look "lumbering" at points. I think it is because he is so new to the position and lacks the technical details, so its all athletic ability and very little instincts and recognition. Moves like a player who doesn't trust what he is seeing and what his brain is telling him. Very mechanical - leads to choppy steps rather than just getting out there, picking a direction, and getting to a spot. You can see in a few plays where he just decides to turn and go and he looks far more fluid. So LVE clearly can move very well, he just looks like he doesn't always trust things. So Raw. Very Raw?

By the Bowl Game, Wyoming was about mid-season, LVE looks a bit more fluid and is demonstrating more of an ability to slide across the face of OL to slip blocks - https://youtu.be/9V8dZI_HZX8. While that is still not 9 minutes of domination or anything, it does show a player who looks for decisive and "playmakey" than in the Wyoming film. But, man alive, someone needs to teach this kid that at 6'4" or whatever, he has got to come into tackles and blocks lower. Leverage young man, leverage.

Thanks for sharing the link. Have a look at the 3:50 mark and there is a play run to the defensive right edge. LVE isn't able to get off the block and seems a bit slow to flow and only gets an arm on the ballcarrier.

Last season after Shazier goes down, it seemed like teams ran off tackle well and the Steeler ILB's were not able to get to the edges in order to make tackle in the run game. The thing I see is the Steelers need somebody that is going to be able to get to the edge and make that tackle. Maybe he is that guy in 2-5 years like you mention. The tape just isn't impressive to me.

That being said, I wonder if Josey Jewell ends up in the 3rd-5th round. That kid's tape is nice, but still don't think he is the guy with speed to get to the edge either. I love the Sean Lee comparisons that Jewell gets.

[teegre]

I'm not a buyer yet either, but if Teegre is gonna make Watt comparisons, I'm at least looking in the window. :chuckle:

I think Evans is way smoother... Gun to my head, I'm still taking him as the rd1 LB if available.

For 2018 & 2019... Evans is indeed the better ILB.
For 2020 & beyond... I see LVE surpassing Evans.

Evans = Mosley
LVE = Shazier

As El Gonzo said: LVE’s strength is dropping into coverage, which is why (IMO) he’s a great fit in Butler’s defense. As far as the sacks go, LVE is very similar to Watt & VW in that regard: all three struggle to get sacks on their own accord, but when the scheme affords them an open lane (a dong sack), they certainly take full advantage of it.

One more thing, I saw a cool diagram comparing Watt to LVE, and Evans to LVE. It’s those Combine pizza chart things. anyway, Watt & LVE looked almost identical... like an almost full umbrella. Whereas, Evans (surprisingly) looked a lot like a starfish. Again, Evans is great, but he’s about maxed out.

SUMMATION:
Evans has a higher floor, but also a lower ceiling. Evans low & his high are about (again) equivolent to Mosley.

LVE has a lower floor (Vince Williams), but also a higher ceiling (Brian Urlacher).

Evans is almost 100% guaranteed to be very, very good. Whereas, LVE could be a “bust” (if you can call VW a bust) or he could be a HOFer.

[Mojouw]

Okay, Teegre, you asked for it. You call 'em pizza graphs (which I like way too much) and I call 'em spider graphs...but they are finally here!! I'm reworking this from another post in the draft section...

So start with this -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/ryan-shazier?position=ATH -- that is what the Steelers are trying to replace. Remember that these graphs are structured not on position, but on ALL draftable players. So, in case anyone was confused, Ryan Shazier was basically an alien being.

Look at the two most popular picks for ILB in the first round:

1. Rashaan Evans -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/rashaan-evans?position=ATH -- short and sweet, Evans is not an explosive athlete. Can he do better at a pro day or later individual workout? If not, he does not fit with the recent trends in Steelers picks. Wanna guess who he does pizza graph like -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jarvis-jones?position=ATH -- I mean Jones is far far worse, but still...

2. Now let's look at LVE -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/leighton-vander-esch?position=ATH -- again we see an athlete not quite in Shazier's tier but almost a clone of TJ Watt -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tj-watt?position=ATH

I suspect that the Steelers are looking for someone like Timmons -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/lawrence-timmons?position=ATH -- as a baseline and Shazier as an upper limit.

An outside the box solution -- assuming the kid is willing to make the switch and I suspect that if that is a path to a first round selection the answer is yes -- Lorenzo Carter -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/lorenzo-carter?position=ATH

Now of course, all of this discounts the points/perspective that El-Gonzo Jackson was bringing up before. Can any of these kids actually play ball?

[teegre]

Okay, Teegre, you asked for it. You call 'em pizza graphs (which I like way too much) and I call 'em spider graphs...but they are finally here!! I'm reworking this from another post in the draft section...


Now of course, all of this discounts the points/perspective that El-Gonzo Jackson was bringing up before. Can any of these kids actually play ball?


YES!!! Those are the things that I was talking about. Great minds... :wink02:

Question:
Are pizza-spiders distant relatives of snake-clowns??? #legobatman



El Gonzo brings up valid concerns. Tape doesn’t lie. But, at the same time, what I see in LVE is eerily similar to what I saw in Watt: a flawed linebacker who is still very raw and has a ton of potential.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

El Gonzo brings up valid concerns. Tape doesn’t lie. But, at the same time, what I see in LVE is eerily similar to what I saw in Watt: a flawed linebacker who is still very raw and has a ton of potential.

I didn't see Watt as flawed last year. I would say that I saw a kid that is a very good athlete, that as a pass rusher uses his hands very well and always keeps his feet moving towards the QB, while shedding the O lineman hands. His on field drills looked quick like a 225 lb safety and not a tall OLB. LVE looked fluid in his combine field drills to me, but not as sudden in change of direction as Watt. (lets just say he had glide, but not as much suddenness :wink02: )

That would be a good find to compare video of their on field drills at the combine.

[teegre]

I didn't see Watt as flawed last year. I would say that I saw a kid that is a very good athlete, that as a pass rusher uses his hands very well and always keeps his feet moving towards the QB, while shedding the O lineman hands. His on field drills looked quick like a 225 lb safety and not a tall OLB. LVE looked fluid in his combine field drills to me, but not as sudden in change of direction as Watt. (lets just say he had glide, but not as much suddenness :wink02: )

That would be a good find to compare video of their on field drills at the combine.

First of all, suddenness and glide. :rofl2:

Okay, with that out of the way... When I say “flawed”, I mean he has things to work on. Neither seems like a finished product (which is a good thing, because the best is yet to come).

Speaking of video, watch the SDSU game and the Oregon game. I watched those (had them on while building LEGOs with my son), and it seemed like LVE was making play after play. Maybe his technique is flawed (needs work), but in the interim, he sure is producing.

One thing to take note of (I’m really asking): are those tackles past the LOS because he’s dropping into coverage (and having to run up to stop a run)? Because, to me, it seems that on 75% of the plays, at the snap LVE backpedals at least 10 yards into coverage...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

First of all, suddenness and glide. :rofl2:



One thing to take note of (I’m really asking): are those tackles past the LOS because he’s dropping into coverage (and having to run up to stop a run)? Because, to me, it seems that on 75% of the plays, at the snap LVE backpedals at least 10 yards into coverage...

Watch the SDSU tape again and ask yourself if he is lining up 5 yards off the LOS and standing in place shuffling his feet, then sliding to the ballcarrier and waiting ....or is he reading the handoff and attacking the LOS and the ballcarrier?? That should be an indication of why all those tackles are past the LOS.

Then, have a look at the top 4 or 5 ILB prospects in the draft and see if they stand around in "no man's land" and wait for the ballcarrier, or do they get upfield to make the tackle. (I don't think Josey Jewell is top 4 ILB prospect and watch him in the Penn St game :wink02:)

[Mojouw]

Watch the SDSU tape again and ask yourself if he is lining up 5 yards off the LOS and standing in place shuffling his feet, then sliding to the ballcarrier and waiting ....or is he reading the handoff and attacking the LOS and the ballcarrier?? That should be an indication of why all those tackles are past the LOS.

Then, have a look at the top 4 or 5 ILB prospects in the draft and see if they stand around in "no man's land" and wait for the ballcarrier, or do they get upfield to make the tackle. (I don't think Josey Jewell is top 4 ILB prospect and watch him in the Penn St game :wink02:)

That is the critical question, but there is another layer to it. Lots of silly draft websites like to put a clever phrase on everything and they tend to use "click and close" or whatever the phrase is this year for what you are describing. So we can take the position that several other ILB prospects in this class click and close faster than LVE right now. That means their value to any NFL team in 2018 is higher than LVE's. But what about their ability to click and close faster as a component of overall development moving forward? Take someone like Jewell. He certainly gets upfield better right now. But does he have any room for improvement in that area? Perhaps through increased scheme and play recognition, but his measurables say he does not based on athletic ability. The same data says that LVE can improve from scheme, play recognition, and has the raw measurables to get upfield with "suddenness and glide" that others in the class lack.

2018 - LVE is a "catchers mitt" -- another clever draft phrase. Others in the class play "behind the LOS".
2019 and beyond - LVE improves and marries his raw athletic gifts with technique and recognition and now he is bursting upfield and making his living on the offense's side of the ball. Others in the class are treading water because they simply lack the speed and agility.

Granted, I am arbitrarily upgrading LVE's outlook and likely downgrading others. But that, to me, is the fundamental challenge in the draft. One of my favorite draft writers consistently talks about length to impact ratio. In other words, how long after you draft a player do you have to wait for him to develop to have their maximum impact on the field? Couple that with their best case scenario ceiling and this is the challenge that teams are facing each draft cycle. If I have to wait a year but then a kid develops into a dynamo, was it worth it? If I get a kid who is a notch or three below dynamo but can do that every game all game from day one, is that more important?

Take a few wildly different Steelers examples. Polamalu took a year and half almost to really "impact" and for awhile looked behind some others in his draft class. Then his development progression and athletic ceiling merged and he became a generational player. Jarvis Jones was exactly the same guy from the day he was drafted until the day he was cut. Bud Dupree is the middle ground of this - some progress but his athletic gifts have many feeling there should be far more "impact". Mark Bruener is a less extreme example. He took awhile to get his blocking squared away, but he did and the Steelers were rewarded with an amazing all around TE. Jesse James looks like what Bruener would have been without the blocking ever coming on line.

What am I trying to say in this long and rambling post? LVE is not a definitive high-quality solution to the Steelers ILB woes in 2018. What the scouts and coaches have to determine is what kind of solution is he in 2019-2021?

[Mojouw]

Here is one other way of thinking about what I am struggling to evaluate for the Steelers LB targets in this draft class. What is the tipping point between finished product and potential?

Look at some recent cherry picked Steelers examples:

1. Timmons - far from a finished product and took awhile to come online, but that sure worked.
2. Woodley - same as above. Until his body broke down he was a ferocious pass rusher and really improved at doing other LB things.
3. Shazier - again, struggled to merge his athletic gifts and his ability to play under control. Once he did it was sight to behold however briefly.
4. Watt - raw and unfinished but provides glimpses of a developing playmaker.
5. Matekevich - he is what he is. If he can get his hands on you, you're tackled. Problem is that size/speed prevent him from getting his hands on you early enough in the play to really impact.
6. Jarvis Jones - the ultimate cautionary tale when you try and talk yourself into "plug and play" over NFL athleticism. Colbert and company rolled the dice on Jones being a finished product who could contribute right away to a team that wanted a pass rusher to reinforce an aging defense for one last SB ride. That blew up in their faces.
7. Bud Dupree - staggering physical gifts. Uneven results on the field. Bust? Not yet. First round impact? Hardly and running out of time to change that evaluation.

So where does that leave things? Well 3 out of 5 first round LB picks say you pick the athlete and develop them into the LB'er. 1 says you better be wary of the LBer who isn't an athlete. And 1 says you should be cautious about the LBer who is an athlete but not a football player. The rest says after the first round, who knows?

[teegre]

Watch the SDSU tape again and ask yourself if he is lining up 5 yards off the LOS and standing in place shuffling his feet, then sliding to the ballcarrier and waiting ....or is he reading the handoff and attacking the LOS and the ballcarrier?? That should be an indication of why all those tackles are past the LOS.


I shall rewatch this weekend.

Here’s what I’ve always said about tackling. Some guys are fast, but can not diagnose a play to save their life... or, they run the wrong way, negating their speed. Other guys have super high football IQs, but are simply too slow to make the play. The prior has a chance to improve, but the latter does not.

high football IQ, fast as hell: Junior Seau
low football IQ, fast as hell: Mike Mitchell
high football IQ, slow as sin: Tyler Matakevich
low football IQ, slow as sin: Jarvis Jones

I see LVE as being “low football IQ, fast as hell” with the potential for that IQ to improve a student he gets more comfortable with the position.

[hawaiiansteeler]

NFL Rumors - March 6 Updates:

The Eagles would love to draft Boise State linebacker Leighton Vander Esch, but don't believe he'll be available. - Tony Pauline, DraftAnalyst.com

Philadelphia, with very few needs, is in position to take the best player available. That could be Vander Esch, but Pauline has reported that Vander Esch won't make it past the Steelers at No. 28. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors

[Six Rings]

Vander Esch had a very good combine. He worked out like a top ten pick.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

NFL Rumors - March 6 Updates:

The Eagles would love to draft Boise State linebacker Leighton Vander Esch, but don't believe he'll be available. - Tony Pauline, DraftAnalyst.com

Philadelphia, with very few needs, is in position to take the best player available. That could be Vander Esch, but Pauline has reported that Vander Esch won't make it past the Steelers at No. 28. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors

I really like Tony Pauline's draft evaluations, but I haven't seen him print any kind of eval on LVE. All I have seen is him reporting that teams are interested.

I think the combine interviews needed to be important, as Vanderesch looks like a great athlete with a lot of potential. As Bill Parcells once said "potential is just a fancy French word that means you haven't done anything yet". This kid may be a HOF when its all done, but his tape doesn't look like an impactful tackler, as much as a guy that plays zone coverage well and tackles guys 5-10 yards downfield.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Brugler Big Board 2.0: Maryland’s Moore, Boise State’s Vander Esch rising

March 8, 2018, By Dane Brugler

–27. Leighton Vander Esch, LB, Boise State (6-4, 256, 4.65)

An ascending player, Vander Esch has the athletic skill-set and budding instincts to be a three-down player in the NFL. He has a better chance of getting drafted in round one than round two.

http://nfldraftscout.com/2018/03/08/brugler-big-board-20-marylands-moore-boise-states-vander-esch-rising/

[hawaiiansteeler]

Top inside linebacker prospect Leighton Vander Esch visited the Steelers on Saturday

RAY FITTIPALDO
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
APR 9, 2018

The Steelers are looking for an inside linebacker in the draft later this month, and one of the top inside linebacker prospects in the draft took a visit to the Steelers over the weekend.

Leighton Vander Esch visited the UMPC Rooney Sports Complex Saturday for a top-30 visit, according to an industry source. The Steelers reportedly had dinner with Vander Esch the night before his pro day last week as well.

Vander Esch, who stands 6 feet 4 and weighs 256 pounds, is considered one of the top inside linebackers in this draft along with Roquan Smith of Georgia, Tremaine Edmunds of Virginia Tech and Rashaan Evans of Alabama.

So far, Vander Esch is believed to be the only one of the four to take a predraft visit to the Steelers. The Steelers did meet with Evans before his pro day as well.

to read rest of article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/04/09/Leighton-Vander-Esch-visit-nfl-draft-mock/stories/201804090112

[86WARD]

He’ll be long gone by pick 28.

[pczach]

I worry about a player like LVE. What I see on tape is a kid that gets overwhelmed by blockers unless he's fighting off a back. Some players show you some of that, but his tape consistently shows him having problems with that. He also doesn't show the natural instincts you would like as far as recognition is concerned.

There are some guys who just don't have the natural power to play the position. Forget about how many times he benches 225 at the combine. I'm talking about real football situations that combine strength, speed, vision, the use of hands, core strength, and keeping your center of gravity. I'm still trying to figure out if his problem is partially his lower body strength, his upper body strength, or both.

This is where Evans is clearly the better player right now with his ability to read and react, and then play with power. Evans is not a great athlete, but he has the strength to play. You can see that he would be able to play the position. The question is at what level.

LVE is still a player that I would be hesitant to draft in the 1st round.

[tube517]

983787933860859904

[hawaiiansteeler]

NFL Rumors - April 13 Updates:

The Titans have canceled their visit with Leighton Vander Esch because they don't expect him to be available at No. 25. - Tony Pauline, DraftAnalyst.com

There are some concerns with Vander Esch, which we'll post Monday, but there's no doubt that his stock has been rising throughout the pre-draft process. Vander Esch is 19th in our 2018 NFL Mock Draft. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors

[st33lersguy]

NFL Rumors - April 13 Updates:

The Titans have canceled their visit with Leighton Vander Esch because they don't expect him to be available at No. 25. - Tony Pauline, DraftAnalyst.com

There are some concerns with Vander Esch, which we'll post Monday, but there's no doubt that his stock has been rising throughout the pre-draft process. Vander Esch is 19th in our 2018 NFL Mock Draft. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors

I think that is stupid, you never know who is going to be available (i.e. David DeCastro).

[hawaiiansteeler]

Some Teams Have Medically Flunked Vander Esch

Updated April 16, 2018
By Charlie Campbell

One of the late-rising prospects during the leadup to the 2018 NFL Draft has been Boise State linebacker Leighton Vander Esch. He put together some excellent workouts for teams, showing speed and athleticism in his 6-foot-4, 256-pound frame. Injuries limited Vander Esch to six games in 2016, but he exploded as a junior with 141 tackles with 8.5 tackles for a loss, four sacks, four passes broken up and three interceptions. That injury history, however, has still comeback to bite Vander Esch, as WalterFootball.com has learned that some teams have removed him from their draft board after was flunking him medically.

Sources from four teams said they felt Vander Esch belongs on the second day of the 2018 NFL Draft and would go there. Two other team sources thought Vander Esch could go late in the first round. One team that flunked him medically said they had a third-round grade on Vander Esch before the medical report ruled him out.

"To me, he's a third-round talent, but probably will go higher," said an AFC general manager. "He has gotten a lot of hype, but he plays soft. He's too much like Paul Posluszny for me. He's a good player and will have a lot of tackles, but most of them will come four yards downfield. He's not an impact-at-the-line guy like a Ray Lewis, Luke Kuechly, Jon Beason or Brian Urlacher."

Helping Vander Esch to go in the first round are teams not having 32 first-round grades. It varies by team, but in the final dozen picks of the first round, there will be players with second-round grades getting selected because there are not enough true first-rounders. Vander Esch could be one of those players, but medical concerns also might cause him to slide to Day 2 of the 2018 NFL Draft.

http://walterfootball.com/NFLHotPress

[86WARD]

I think that is stupid, you never know who is going to be available (i.e. David DeCastro).

It’s very stupid. If he winds up being there, then they aren’t going to know what the hell to do because frankly, they half assed it and didn’t fully do all their homework.

Even if players aren’t going to be around when you select, you still have to do all your homework on the player so that you have an idea about each guy and are fully prepared for the draft.

[teegre]

Some Teams Have Medically Flunked Vander Esch

That rumor has already been debunked.

(My guess is that some team in the 20s smeared LVE, so that he’d fall down to them.)

[hawaiiansteeler]

That rumor has already been debunked.

(My guess is that some team in the 20s smeared LVE, so that he’d fall down to them.)

hey, can't blame the Steelers for trying :wink02:

[teegre]

hey, can't blame the Steelers for trying :wink02:

Well... I do have a Twitter account for a reason. :wink02:


Joking aside, I’d bet it’s the Titans. First, they cancel his visit. Then, they leak this info. It screams of: “What???... it wasn’t us”

[hawaiiansteeler]

Pittsburgh Steelers:

The Steelers absolutely must find a new inside linebacker to replace Ryan Shazier. After that, they should find other upgrades to a defense that couldn't stop Blake Bortles, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco or even Brett Hundley to close out the year.

Ideal 2018 NFL Draft (First Four Rounds):

28. Leighton Vander Esch, LB
60. Justin Reid, S
92. Duke Dawson, CB

http://walterfootball.com/draft2018goals_1.php

[86WARD]

Pittsburgh Steelers:

The Steelers absolutely must find a new inside linebacker to replace Ryan Shazier. After that, they should find other upgrades to a defense that couldn't stop Blake Bortles, Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco or even Brett Hundley to close out the year.

Ideal 2018 NFL Draft (First Four Rounds):

28. Leighton Vander Esch, LB
60. Justin Reid, S
92. Duke Dawson, CB

http://walterfootball.com/draft2018goals_1.php

Chances Reid is there at Round 2?

[teegre]

Chances Reid is there at Round 2?

Zero

[Dwinsgames]

Zero

with something as uncertain as the draft ... that is about as certain as it gets ...

that said I will say 1% but expect him to be gone in the 35-45 range

[Mojouw]

Chances Reid is there at Round 2?


Zero


with something as uncertain as the draft ... that is about as certain as it gets ...

that said I will say 1% but expect him to be gone in the 35-45 range

I think it is a bit higher than that. Reid is a "falling" prospect based on what I have been hearing lately on the interwebs. Lots of draft "analysts" that just don't like his game. I think both Reid and Bates test well and are popular in Steelers related discussions, but taking a step back -- a lot of people see both players as "2nd or 3rd round prospects".

[Shoes]

Just about everyone is mocking Evans as a Steeler R1 pick. Have the Steelers even talked to this guy? I don't see his name on the visit or dinner list, when was the last time the steelers drafted a R1player without a visit? Sure its possible but it doesn't fit. If the Steeler's pick from their dinner list and LVE is gone, I'll bet they take Guice or Bates.

[teegre]

Just about everyone is mocking Evans as a Steeler R1 pick. Have the Steelers even talked to this guy? I don't see his name on the visit or dinner list, when was the last time the steelers drafted a R1player without a visit? Sure its possible but it doesn't fit. If the Steeler's pick from their dinner list and LVE is gone, I'll bet they take Guice or Bates.

He was one of the EIGHT players with whom Tomlin had dinner at Alabama’s pro day.

[Shoes]

He was one of the EIGHT players with whom Tomlin had dinner at Alabama’s pro day.


I think I'll just wait until Thursday. :lol: