Statement from Carnell Lake

[tube517]

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-4/Statement-from-Lake/063c43d9-7fec-4601-80c8-8fd59f559290



Carnell Lake Statement
I have decided to return to California to be able to be a part of my youngest son’s last year of high school football.

[Born2Steel]

Hmmm....Good news/bad news??? Who's your first call?

[Mojouw]

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-4/Statement-from-Lake/063c43d9-7fec-4601-80c8-8fd59f559290

That may indeed be true. But it can also read like Lake being told he's out but he can go out on his own terms. I suspect we will never know, and I wish Lake the best. He was always one of my favorite players and I was excited when he came here. Maybe Perry gets brought in? Recently "let go" from a similar position with the Packers.

That being said -- I do not think he was a good position coach nor did he have any "untapped" DC potential. This may be totally unfair on my part, as what do I really know? But, I can't think of a DB who really developed during Lake's tenure. It isn't so much that his guys regressed either. It is simply that nothing really happened. At least from a fan's perspective. In contrast, I can look at RB, WR, OL, and DL and see a # of guys who came to Pittsburgh and got significantly better than they either were projected to be coming out of college or had been in their previous NFL stops.

Now if Porter could just need to attend to his family...

[Shoes]

Good, one down a few more to go! :chuckle:

[Bluecoat96]

What about Deshea Townsend? What's he up to these days?

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[tube517]

What about Deshea Townsend? What's he up to these days?

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Just got hired w/the Giants w/new coach Shurmur

[Shoes]

What about Deshea Townsend? What's he up to these days?

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Please no more Steeler player coaches. Better to look long and hard at outside possibilities.

[vasteeler]

Yep, Porter should be next

[86WARD]

Wish him the best of luck. Loved him as a player. Meh...as a coach.

Thinking of an out of the box type answer to your question...maybe Greg Schiano? Ohio State keep cranking out NFL Caliber CBs and Safeties so maybe there's something to him coaching back there. Not sure he'd want to give up the OSU DC/Asst HC/Safeties/DBs job though...

I may give Rod Woodson a call if you are going to stay within the "family" but not sure what his status is...I think he was coaching the Raiders CBs last year?

Just throwing a couple names out there...

Who is the "Mike Munchak" of DBs???

[st33lersguy]

Lake did the team a favor. He wasn't good as a position coach

[AtlantaDan]

This sounds like AJRII had a sitdown with Tomlin like he did after the 2011 season when Arians "retired" - doubtful Lake found out this week his son's team will be playing football this fall - secondary was a wreck while high draft picks Burns and Davis did not progress as expected in second seasons


Wish him the best of luck. Loved him as a player. Meh...as a coach.

Thinking of an out of the box type answer to your question...maybe Greg Schiano? Ohio State keep cranking out NFL Caliber CBs and Safeties so maybe there's something to him coaching back there. Not sure he'd want to give up the OSU DC/Asst HC/Safeties/DBs job though...

I may give Rod Woodson a call if you are going to stay within the "family" but not sure what his status is...I think he was coaching the Raiders CBs last year?

Just throwing a couple names out there...

Who is the "Mike Munchak" of DBs???

Too bad the trigger was not pulled three weeks ago before possible replacements were hired for other staffs

Schiano said this morning he is staying at OSU after being rumored to be the new Patriots DC (hopefully this means he pulled a McDaniels on Belichick :chuckle: )

Contrary to a published report Monday that Greg Schiano was expected to join the New England Patriots as their new defensive coordinator, the Ohio State defensive coordinator told SI Wednesday morning that he is staying at OSU. A source told SI that Schiano, who is very close to Bill Belichick, had the opportunity to join the Patriots’ staff, although it was unclear if it would be as defensive coordinator.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/02/07/greg-schiano-ohio-state-new-england-patriots-defensive-coordinator

[SteelerFanInStl]

Please no more Steeler player coaches. Better to look long and hard at outside possibilities.

Agreed. Let's hire someone who can come in and help our DBs improve. Lake didn't do that. I loved him as a player but he just wasn't a very good coach.

I'm reading this as he was basically forced out. I hope that's what it is because that tells me that they know they need to improve the coaching and this is the first step.

Send Porter packing next and that will be two good first steps.

[tube517]

Wish him the best of luck. Loved him as a player. Meh...as a coach.

Thinking of an out of the box type answer to your question...maybe Greg Schiano? Ohio State keep cranking out NFL Caliber CBs and Safeties so maybe there's something to him coaching back there. Not sure he'd want to give up the OSU DC/Asst HC/Safeties/DBs job though...

I may give Rod Woodson a call if you are going to stay within the "family" but not sure what his status is...I think he was coaching the Raiders CBs last year?

Just throwing a couple names out there...

Who is the "Mike Munchak" of DBs???

Woodson has stated that the Steelers would be a "dream" job. But, like others have said, maybe it's time for some outside minds.

[st33lersguy]

I may give Rod Woodson a call if you are going to stay within the "family" but not sure what his status is...I think he was coaching the Raiders CBs last year?



Not sure I would go after Woodson given the Raiders didn't have an INT until I think week 12

[SteelerFanInStl]

Not sure I would go after Woodson given the Raiders didn't have an INT until I think week 12

Yea, the Raiders DBs haven't been very good while he's been the coach.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

John Butler went from Texans to Bills and I think Perry is looking for the DC spot with Titans. Gil Byrd was fired from the Bills, but not sure he really has a track record of success.

Either way, as much as I was a fan of Lake as a player. The year he kept pumping up the tires of Antowan Blake, while he was just a turnstile, solidified that he is not a good solution as a DB coach. I agree that Porter should be next to go. Imagine the progress TJ Watt can make with a good OLB coach?

[Born2Steel]

Woodson has stated that the Steelers would be a "dream" job. But, like others have said, maybe it's time for some outside minds.

Ike Taylor has said the same.

[DesertSteel]

Please no more Steeler player coaches. Better to look long and hard at outside possibilities.
Yes please!! Find a wily veteran coach with a proven system of development.

[stillers4me]

Can't say I'm disappointed. Long over due to upgrade this coaching position. If we are really lucky, we will notice the improvement as quickly as we did with Munchak.

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[SteelerFanInStl]

Just throwing this out there but how about bringing Ray Horton back? He did a pretty good job with the Steelers as the DB coach.

[Moose]

Not bad news in my book. Maybe Porter could find something to do too.......maybe being a 'bouncer' at a neighborhood Pitt. bar ! ?

[BlackAndGold]

Rod Woodson, Dom Capers are two names on top of my head for potential replacements

[86WARD]

Didn’t know that about Schiano. Think Capers would “downgrade” to a DB Coach?

I think we may get a fresh name out of the deal...???

[steelreserve]

Player progression has been zero with Lake in charge. Lots of high draft picks and expensive players, struggling to play well as a unit, or individually except for the rare ones who don't need to improve any further (Haden).

Reminds me almost exactly of the offensive line before Munchak.

The good news is, it's fixable. Maybe the talent really is there and we don't need an overhaul. The question is, who's the Mike Munchak of defensive backs? Woodson or Taylor is probably wishful thinking, easy way out that got us here in the first place.

This may also mean no extensive shakeup in the secondary, maybe everyone stays including Mitchell if we thought it was the coaching that was the problem. It certainly would be nice if we didn't need to use a high pick on safety and could instead spend it fixing our pass rushing issue or filling the Shazier gap. Or even a future Ben/Bell replacement that we wouldn't have the luxury of otherwise.

[Steeldude]

He was probably told he was going to be canned. Porter next? I hope so.

Still need a DC.

[Born2Steel]

I think dismissing a possible replacement coach just because he was a player here, is the same reaction as hiring a replacement coach just because he was a player here. Do some diligence and make a GOOD hire. I don't care what his name is, or where he played football before, or IF he played football before. There are lots of good coaches out there.

[steelreserve]

I think dismissing a possible replacement coach just because he was a player here, is the same reaction as hiring a replacement coach just because he was a player here. Do some diligence and make a GOOD hire. I don't care what his name is, or where he played football before, or IF he played football before. There are lots of good coaches out there.

I don't know if that's the intention, at least it wasn't mine ... but the odds that one of your own recent players, with little/no coaching experience, will just happen to also be among the best position coaches in the league are pretty slim. But the bias toward selecting your own guys is probably a lot higher than that.

I don't really care who we get either as long as they're competent, but knee-jerking it is not the way. In fact, it's usually what you do the first time, that then teaches you to broaden your horizons after the results are disappointing.

[Born2Steel]

I don't know if that's the intention, at least it wasn't mine ... but the odds that one of your own recent players, with little/no coaching experience, will just happen to also be among the best position coaches in the league are pretty slim. But the bias toward selecting your own guys is probably a lot higher than that.

I don't really care who we get either as long as they're competent, but knee-jerking it is not the way. In fact, it's usually what you do the first time, that then teaches you to broaden your horizons after the results are disappointing.

I absolutely agree. My real point is there are some good position coaches out there, and a lot of them are former NFL players. I'm not saying go out and hire Rod Woodson or Ike Taylor, just that I would at least give them a call and invite an interview. IMO, Woodson, and Kevin Green should both get interviews this offseason.
Is Jim Mora Jr still looking for a job?

[steelreserve]

I absolutely agree. My real point is there are some good position coaches out there, and a lot of them are former NFL players. I'm not saying go out and hire Rod Woodson or Ike Taylor, just that I would at least give them a call and invite an interview. IMO, Woodson, and Kevin Green should both get interviews this offseason.
Is Jim Mora Jr still looking for a job?

I have no idea who the best position coach is - but it seems like a lot of them are not "name" NFL players from the near-middle past. The guy we're looking for could be like .. I don't know, some borderline second cornerback from the 2001 Saints who you never heard of again, but spent the next decade working his way up from Bowling Green to Nevada to Texas A&M and figuring out how to be an excellent teacher at the position, then got an NFL job for two years but that team just underwent a coaching shakeup or something, and now he's looking for a job.

I have no idea who these guys are, but NFL people do, one of the few times I would truly 100% agree with the "what do you know, you're just a fan and these guys are professionals" argument. But somewhere, that guy is out there, and it probably isn't Woodson or Kevin Greene.

[Born2Steel]

I have no idea who the best position coach is - but it seems like a lot of them are not "name" NFL players from the near-middle past. The guy we're looking for could be like .. I don't know, some borderline second cornerback from the 2001 Saints who you never heard of again, but spent the next decade working his way up from Bowling Green to Nevada to Texas A&M and figuring out how to be an excellent teacher at the position, then got an NFL job for two years but that team just underwent a coaching shakeup or something, and now he's looking for a job.

I have no idea who these guys are, but NFL people do, one of the few times I would truly 100% agree with the "what do you know, you're just a fan and these guys are professionals" argument. But somewhere, that guy is out there, and it probably isn't Woodson or Kevin Greene.

Probably isn't.

[AtlantaDan]

Although Tomlin now has eleven years under his belt as a HC I do not see the sort of coaching tree developing that occurred under Cowher (assistants who went on to be head coaches included LeBeau, Capers, Haslett, Whisenhunt, Mularkey and Gailey).

Arians became a HC (after being fired) and Lebeau landed as a DC in Tennessee (after being fired and having established his rep before Tomlin arrived) but other than that I cannot recall any coach who even moved on to a coordinator position other than Ray Horton, who was on the staff when Tomlin arrived, and Haley, who was let go rather than hired away.

Coach Munchak obviously is a star assistant but I doubt anyone attributes that to Tomlin.

Either weak hiring or weak development (or both) of coaches. Under Cowher the staff was turning over either due to getting promoted elsewhere or Cowher firing them with regularity.

[Hawkman]

Although Tomlin now has eleven years under his belt as a HC I do not see the sort of coaching tree developing that occurred under Cowher (assistants who went on to be head coaches included LeBeau, Capers, Haslett, Whisenhunt, Mularkey and Gailey).

Arians became a HC (after being fired) and Lebeau landed as a DC in Tennessee (after being fired and having established his rep before Tomlin arrived) but other than that I cannot recall any coach who even moved on to a coordinator position other than Ray Horton, who was on the staff when Tomlin arrived, and Haley, who was let go rather than hired away.

Coach Munchak obviously is a star assistant but I doubt anyone attributes that to Tomlin.

Either weak hiring or weak development (or both) of coaches. Under Cowher the staff was turning over either due to getting promoted elsewhere or Cowher firing them with regularity.

So Tomlin gets all the blame for the hiring of weak assistants, but no credit for the hiring of one of the best position coaches in the NFL?

[Psycho Ward 86]

So Tomlin gets all the blame for the hiring of weak assistants, but no credit for the hiring of one of the best position coaches in the NFL?

How much credit should Tomlin get for hiring an O-line coach already highly regarded as one of the best at his job? It was a good common sense move, not a sneaky, under the radar coaching hire that no one was smart enough to make

[AtlantaDan]

So Tomlin gets all the blame for the hiring of weak assistants, but no credit for the hiring of one of the best position coaches in the NFL?

I said I doubt anyone attributes Munchak's development as a coach to Tomlin, not that he was not a good hire - even a broken clock is right twice a day

Munchak was an O-line coach for 14 years and then the head coach for the Titans before he arrived in Pittsburgh - he was not some position coach from a low level college program who Tomlin discovered while scouting players with no other opportunities

Mike Munchak didn’t need a job, and so he wasn’t going to take any job just to have one....

Pittsburgh itself for me is more Pennsylvania, and being from Pennsylvania I have a lot of family and friends who live in this part of the country....

“There were some other opportunities I looked at, but then it came down to, ‘Do I want to coach the offensive line?” And with that meant moving and doing all those things that come with a coach’s life, so it had to be a good opportunity.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Munchak-on-why-he-chose-the-Steelers/9964802f-f31f-4bb8-8f5e-0ef2af8db254

I also am saying I have not seen any coaches hired and favorably develop their reputations under Tomlin that resulted in head coaching opportunities - for the success Tomlin has experienced that is surprising when considering the number of future head coaches who worked under coaches such as Tony Dungy, Andy Reid and even Marvin Lewis

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17221096/tony-dungy-coaching-tree-10-key-limbs-mike-tomlin-rod-marinelli-herm-edwards-love-smith
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article193570754.html


Feel free to share any coaches that you regard to have developed their reputations under Tomlin

[Mojouw]

I said I doubt anyone attributes Munchak's development as a coach to Tomlin, not that he was not a good hire - even a broken clock is right twice a day

Munchak was an O-line coach for 14 years and then the head coach for the Titans before he arrived in Pittsburgh - he was not some position coach from a low level college program who Tomlin discovered while scouting players with no other opportunities

Mike Munchak didn’t need a job, and so he wasn’t going to take any job just to have one....

Pittsburgh itself for me is more Pennsylvania, and being from Pennsylvania I have a lot of family and friends who live in this part of the country....

“There were some other opportunities I looked at, but then it came down to, ‘Do I want to coach the offensive line?” And with that meant moving and doing all those things that come with a coach’s life, so it had to be a good opportunity.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Munchak-on-why-he-chose-the-Steelers/9964802f-f31f-4bb8-8f5e-0ef2af8db254

I also am saying I have not seen any coaches hired and favorably develop their reputations under Tomlin that resulted in head coaching opportunities - for the success Tomlin has experienced that is surprising when considering the number of future head coaches who worked under coaches such as Tony Dungy, Andy Reid and even Marvin Lewis

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17221096/tony-dungy-coaching-tree-10-key-limbs-mike-tomlin-rod-marinelli-herm-edwards-love-smith
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article193570754.html


Feel free to share any coaches that you regard to have developed their reputations under Tomlin

I think that part of the thing is that Tomlin has hired older coaches for the coordinator jobs. Lebeau then Butler on defense and Arians then Haley on offense. Those guys were already established and had built reputations for better or worse prior to Tomlin's Steelers tenure.

Cowher started down the same road on offense with Earhardt, then Sherman (with a detour to Gailey in there), then Gilbride. It was only after all that Cowher kinda went to the developmental well with Mularkey and Whisenhunt (which you could argue was really just an attempt to go back to Chan Gailey). On defense there was the "meh" stretch of Lewis and Haslett - not Cowher developed guys - sandwiched around Capers and Lebeau.

I kinda see the same thing with Tomlin. He comes in as young head coach with a defensive background. He retains his inherited DC and system. Then moves on to the DC's understudy in an attempt to merge his coverage ideas with Butler's take on Lebeau's fronts. Then, he basically outsources the offense. Amazing position coaches and offensive coordinators that have free rein.

So the coaches I can think of that got prominent post-Steelers roles under Cowher that he had a hand in developing are Capers, Wisenhunt, and Mularkey. Tomlin gets....yeah that is hard one.

I think the coordinator hires have been fine. I mean there hasn't been a Walton, Lewis, or Gilbride as of yet. It is the lower tier of coaches on defense that don't seem to be doing much. The thing they all have in common is that they are former Steelers. Now on one hand it makes sense - who better to teach the system? On the other hand...

[fansince'76]

Yep, Porter should be next


I agree that Porter should be next to go. Imagine the progress TJ Watt can make with a good OLB coach?

Agreed. Despite the freakish athletic ability, he hasn't been able to get ANYTHING more out of Dupree?


Although Tomlin now has eleven years under his belt as a HC I do not see the sort of coaching tree developing that occurred under Cowher (assistants who went on to be head coaches included LeBeau, Capers, Haslett, Whisenhunt, Mularkey and Gailey).

Not really much of a "tree" there, though. Belichick's is even worse, however.

[Steelerette]

I don't perceive Lake to have been a good DB coach. Love the guy, but as far as team development goes, it's for the best. Similarly, I wouldn't want Troy as a DB coach - that was a sheer perfect storm talent, instinct, and physical capability, and you can't teach that stuff. The secondary suffered dramatically when his physical gifts gave way to age. A great player doesn't always have great optics as a coaching prospect. I'm not convinced hiring Porter was ever a good idea either. Hines Ward on the other hand, I think he'll make a fantastic coach if he gets into that.

[Iron Steeler]

How about Kris Richards defense coordinator of Seattle.

Could he bring the agressiveness react to our defense mentality.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

How about Kris Richards defense coordinator of Seattle.

Could he bring the agressiveness react to our defense mentality.

He is apparently gone to Dallas.

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed. Despite the freakish athletic ability, he hasn't been able to get ANYTHING more out of Dupree?


.

Yup, I would have to think that he would have taught Dupree some hand use, convert speed to power in the bull rush, or at least a good swat and rip to shorten the arc running around the RT in pass rush.

Fans can say that Dupree is in coverage more than pass rush, but when he does pass rush, he shows no technique whatsoever, IMO.

[Hawkman]

How much credit should Tomlin get for hiring an O-line coach already highly regarded as one of the best at his job? It was a good common sense move, not a sneaky, under the radar coaching hire that no one was smart enough to make

He was smart enough to hire him before another team did.