Bouchette Doesn’t Believe Steelers Will Use 5th Year Option On Bud Dupree

[Shoes]

BY ALEX KOZORA (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/alex-kozora/) JANUARY 31, 2018 AT 02:27 PM
Though far from gospel, one of the top Pittsburgh Steelers’ beat writers doesn’t believe the team will place the fifth year option on outside linebacker Bud Dupree. In one of his Steelers’ chats (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/30/Ed-Bouchette-Steelers-chat-1-30-18/stories/201801300084) yesterday,Ed Bouchette was asked if the team will exercise Dupree’s option season. His response?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/bouchette-doesnt-believe-steelers-will-use-5th-year-option-bud-dupree/

[st33lersguy]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/fb/Just_say_no.png/revision/latest?cb=20081210153755

[SteelerFanInStl]

I don't know why they wouldn't. It's not like as if we have a better option right now. Like Bouchette said, if he doesn't perform, then they can just cut him with no dead money.

[86WARD]

Exactly. They are basically riding with on OLB on a team that needs 4 total LB starters.

[AtlantaDan]

I don't know why they wouldn't. It's not like as if we have a better option right now. Like Bouchette said, if he doesn't perform, then they can just cut him with no dead money.

Yep - it is not as if any team ever gets burned on guaranteeing the $$ on the fifth year option if the player is injured

After this past season Dupree may not be in the Jarvis Jones neighborhood but he is getting closer

My guess is the option is not exercised

[zulater]

I think they will. He may have been hampered with a shoulder injury all season. Anyway he's been a disappointment, no doubt. But not a bust. Risk/ reward factor measured in it makes more sense than not to guarantee the 5th year.

[Born2Steel]

There are 2 risks involved here. The financial risk of Dupree getting injured and the Steelers being 'stuck' with paying a player that's on IR. OR, there is the risk of having a LB corps of players worse than Dupree because you opted to let him walk. As a fan, and not an owner, my biggest fear is the on-the-field side of the issue. Bud Dupree starts because nobody else on the team is good enough to take his spot, Think about that for a second or 2. Bud was only able to use one arm for a portion of the season, and nobody could supplant him. That's not saying Bud has been great up till now, that's how bad the backups are. Until his injured shoulder is diagnosed as a chronic issue, and/or somebody steps up to take the job from him, how can I justify just letting him walk? Whatever the money situation is, we still need to be able to win games. It's not as easy as "just draft somebody, anybody". We failed on 2 of the last 3 first round OLBs we selected.
As for the money side, the level of risk has yet to be determined, or at least made public. We do not know the extent of his shoulder issues. If this is going to be a chronic problem and there will continue to be games where Bud has to play one-armed, common sense dictates no 5th year option. I don't care how much Bud gets paid per season. If he signs a $100M contract or a $100K contract. My ONLY concern is if we are winning games or not.

[Mojouw]

My response to Dupree and Mitchell are the same thing. Despite the fact that they are under-performing their anticipated cap #'s, we need to look at Colbert's history on this stuff. He doesn't go into the draft with gaping holes in his starting 22. He certainly goes in with guys that need improvement and replacement, but he rarely (if ever) hits draft day with a total donut hole on the starting depth chart.

So for that reason, they pick up Dupree's fifth year option. Because after him and Watt the depth chart reads "some guys".

[Born2Steel]

My response to Dupree and Mitchell are the same thing. Despite the fact that they are under-performing their anticipated cap #'s, we need to look at Colbert's history on this stuff. He doesn't go into the draft with gaping holes in his starting 22. He certainly goes in with guys that need improvement and replacement, but he rarely (if ever) hits draft day with a total donut hole on the starting depth chart.

So for that reason, they pick up Dupree's fifth year option. Because after him and Watt the depth chart reads "some guys".

In all honesty, after Dupree and Watt the depth chart reads, Chickillo and Adams. "Some Guys" actually gives me a bit more hope that one of them will be good.

[steelreserve]

I don't see what benefit there is to exercising it. If we really have a problem at OLB and need to keep him on the roster, we can re-sign him for a lot less than $10 million. Or if we spend $10 million, we can use it on someone a lot better than Dupree.

People keep saying "what's the downside" - but what's the upside? Nothing positive happens from exercising the option.

Hey great, we can use the option and then cut him loose before we have to pay it. What did we gain from that? Nothing. Why even do it?

[Steeldude]

I would rather have Chickillo. At least he hustles. No difference in the way Dupree and Chickillo obtained their sacks.

It's time to move on from the Dupree project. Draft an OLB early again.

[Mojouw]

I don't see what benefit there is to exercising it. If we really have a problem at OLB and need to keep him on the roster, we can re-sign him for a lot less than $10 million. Or if we spend $10 million, we can use it on someone a lot better than Dupree.

People keep saying "what's the downside" - but what's the upside? Nothing positive happens from exercising the option.

Hey great, we can use the option and then cut him loose before we have to pay it. What did we gain from that? Nothing. Why even do it?

You buy time to identify and develop a replacement. He plays this year on a totally manageable cap # even if his production stays exactly the same. If you exercise the option, you can let this draft come to you. No need to "reach" for an edge rusher because you know you have a hole in your starting line-up after 2018 season. Can even do the same thing a bit in 2019 draft - if the cap allows you to pay the 5th year option to Dupree.

Now if "random 3rd round pick" or Adams or "street free agent" comes in and is productive - pull the option and wish Dupree luck as he moves on with his life's work.

Alternatively, you figure Dupree had a mini-breakout in 2018. Say 50 tackles 9 legit sacks and a couple of turnovers. Additionally, he starts to display a plan during his pass-rush. Well then you hit him with a team friendly extension and buy out his option year and sign an "emerging" pass rusher while you still have leverage.

Worst case (non catastrophic injury) is that Dupree is terrible and by the 4th game of the season the position devolves into some awful platoon of Dupree/Chickillo/Adams. Okay - what many think is going to happen anyway. Pull the option and cut him.

Tell me again, how the Steelers lose? Remember the only way they are likely going to let him see a season at 9.5 million is if he puts up 50+tackles and 10+ sacks - that would be a bargain.

Ryan Shazier was going to be playing on a 5th year option in 2018 and he was looking like the most underpaid LB in football before he went down.

[steelreserve]

Worst case (non catastrophic injury) is that Dupree is terrible and by the 4th game of the season the position devolves into some awful platoon of Dupree/Chickillo/Adams. Okay - what many think is going to happen anyway. Pull the option and cut him.

Tell me again, how the Steelers lose? Remember the only way they are likely going to let him see a season at 9.5 million is if he puts up 50+tackles and 10+ sacks - that would be a bargain.

Again, the worst case isn't that he's bad and we back out of the option year. The worst case is the Jason Worilds scenario: He has another low-impact season like the last three, but we talk ourselves into keeping the option anyway because "omg this is finally gonna be his year" or "just one more chance" or "we're still not sure what we have" or "who else is on the market" or "what choice do we have" or "we need one more season to get a really good look at him" or some shit like that. In fact, I would rate that by far the most likely outcome if we use the option. For some reason, we won't let go of players like that if we took the first step. Better to just steer way clear.



Ryan Shazier was going to be playing on a 5th year option in 2018 and he was looking like the most underpaid LB in football before he went down.

No he wasn't. He was going to get a big contract extension well before the option ever came into play. Probably one that would've had a much lower cap hit in the first year, too.

But this is basically the entire point. The option is for players like Shazier, or Pouncey, or Heyward, who you know you're keeping but you still have to work out the actual deal. If you're not sure, that should pretty much make the decision for you not to do it.

[Mojouw]

Again, the worst case isn't that he's bad and we back out of the option year. The worst case is the Jason Worilds scenario: He has another low-impact season like the last three, but we talk ourselves into keeping the option anyway because "omg this is finally gonna be his year" or "just one more chance" or "we're still not sure what we have" or "who else is on the market" or "what choice do we have" or "we need one more season to get a really good look at him" or some shit like that. In fact, I would rate that by far the most likely outcome if we use the option. For some reason, we won't let go of players like that if we took the first step. Better to just steer way clear.




No he wasn't. He was going to get a big contract extension well before the option ever came into play. Probably one that would've had a much lower cap hit in the first year, too.

But this is basically the entire point. The option is for players like Shazier, or Pouncey, or Heyward, who you know you're keeping but you still have to work out the actual deal. If you're not sure, that should pretty much make the decision for you not to do it.

Dude, I do see your point. Honestly, I do. But the 5th year option is in the CB CBA to give teams leverage. Never ever walk away from leverage. Steelers pick up the option they control the entire conversation going forward. Now, they then do something dumb, well crap. That's when you fire a GM. Not cede leverage because you suspect your GM is an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pczach]

Dude, I do see your point. Honestly, I do. But the 5th year option is in the CB CBA to give teams leverage. Never ever walk away from leverage. Steelers pick up the option they control the entire conversation going forward. Now, they then do something dumb, well crap. That's when you fire a GM. Not cede leverage because you suspect your GM is an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly.

You can't worry about the GM making a bad decision later. If you don't think the GM is capable of making that decision or doesn't know more about the player than you, he shouldn't be the GM in the first place.

Have the best player available to you at the time on the roster until a better option presents itself from a talent/cost perspective. If it doesn't work out.....walk away. This isn't that hard, and people are overthinking this.

[teegre]

Let’s see...

Costs the Steelers nothing.
Gives the Steelers 100% control of the situation.

SUMMATION:
No one has yet to convince me that this is a bad move.

[tube517]

Steelers pick up Dupree's 5th year option.

http://www.steelers.com/news/transactions/article-4/Steelers-exercise-Duprees-fifth-year-option/1813c5be-b7db-49cd-90c5-6eef4ea1a621

[st33lersguy]

What did he do to earn it?

[Mojouw]

What did he do to earn it?

Players don't "earn" 5th year options. They have it imposed on them by the team. If players in years 1-4 "earn" anything it is the opportunity to sit down with the team and have their 5th year option bought out with an extension.

Broncos picked up Shane Ray's option for the same $$ and with some of the exact same questions (which player is real? The one who put together stretches of success or the oft-injured "meh"?) - this is exactly what the CBA is designed to do. Now, of course, Ryan Shazier's situation is an example of how this can all go south. Shazier has his option picked up instead of an extension so that the team could ensure that Shazier really was the player that he appeared to be when not injured. Then prior to getting catastrophically injured, Shazier played like a DPOY candidate. A total cap bargain for the team and making Shazier an almost certain extension candidate.

We can only hope that the exact same scenario (minus the injury) plays out with Dupree. In fact, it is entirely likely that he never plays on the tag because he either underperforms and gets cut or he overperforms and the Steelers sign him to a contract extension.

[Neversatisfied]

I dont think the Steelers had a choice. Despite the number of draft picks the Steelers have spent on LB over the past 6-8 drafts the Steelers still have trouble putting 4 guys out there worth owning a roster spot.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Paul Zeise: The Steelers were right to pick up fifth-year option to Bud Dupree

PAUL ZEISE
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
APR 23, 2018

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/zeise-is-right/2018/04/23/paul-zeise-Steelers-make-right-move-fifth-year-option-Bud-Dupree/stories/201804230102

[Shoes]

Anybody see Ed today? :chuckle:

[Rotorhead]

Hahahahahahahaha

[teegre]

Derp... Harrison...derp.

[Mojouw]

I dunno - the track record at LB is fairly decent:


Rk
Year
Rnd
Pick

Pos
DrAge
From
To
AP1
PB
St
CarAV
G
GS
Int
Sk
College/Univ



1
2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/draft.htm)
1
30
T.J. Watt (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattT.00.htm)
OLB
22
2017
2017
0
0
1
7
15
15
1
7.0
Wisconsin (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/wisconsin/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tj-watt-1.html)


2
2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/draft.htm)
7
248
Keion Adams (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamKe02.htm)
OLB
22


0
0
0





West. Michigan (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/westmichigan/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/keion-adams-1.html)


3
2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/draft.htm)
6
220
Travis Feeney (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FeenTr00.htm)
OLB
23


0
0
0





Washington (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/washington/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/travis-feeney-1.html)


4
2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/draft.htm)
7
246
Tyler Matakevich (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MataTy00.htm)
OLB
23
2016
2017
0
0
0
2
31
0


Temple (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/temple/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-matakevich-1.html)


5
2015 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/draft.htm)
1
22
Bud Dupree (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DuprAl00.htm)
OLB
22
2015
2017
0
0
1
12
38
24

14.5
Kentucky (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/kentucky/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/alvin-dupree-1.html)


6
2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/draft.htm)
1
15
Ryan Shazier (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/ShazRy00.htm)
LB
22
2014
2017
0
2
3
27
46
41
7
7.0
Ohio St. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/ohiost/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ryan-shazier-1.html)


7
2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/draft.htm)
6
192
Jordan Zumwalt (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Z/ZumwJo00.htm)
LB
22
2014
2014
0
0
0
0
0



UCLA (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/ucla/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jordan-zumwalt-1.html)


8
2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm)
1
17
Jarvis Jones (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJa05.htm)
LB
23
2013
2016
0
0
2
18
50
35
2
6.0
Georgia (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/georgia/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jarvis-jones-1.html)


9
2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm)
6
206
Vince Williams (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillVi01.htm)
LB
23
2013
2017
0
0
2
19
79
33
1
10.5
Florida St. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/floridast/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-williams-1.html)


10
2012 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/draft.htm)
3
86
Sean Spence (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SpenSe00.htm)
LB
22
2012
2017
0
0
1
12
53
23

6.0
Miami (FL) (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/miami(fl)/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sean-spence-1.html)


11
2011 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2011/draft.htm)
5
162
Chris Carter (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CartCh00.htm)
LB
22
2011
2017
0
0
0
6
75
4


Fresno St. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/fresnost/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/chris-carter-2.html)


12
2010 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/draft.htm)
5
166
Stevenson Sylvester (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SylvSt99.htm)
LB
22
2010
2014
0
0
0
5
50
2


Utah (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/utah/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/stevenson-sylvester-1.html)






That's everyone from 2009-2017. Some nothing guys in the 5th and 6tth round. Not going to hold that against any NFL team at any position. At that point you are expecting to be choosing between special teams and depth players.

Spence busted out because of injury. Totally off-set by the massive win that is Vince Willliams. Shazier is a tragic win. Jones is a bust. Dupree is a league average OLB with a bit of upside remaining. Watt is a seeming win.

I keep hearing how there are all these LB draft picks the Steelers "missed" on. It is one. One guy.

[steelreserve]

Let’s see...

Costs the Steelers nothing.
Gives the Steelers 100% control of the situation.

SUMMATION:
No one has yet to convince me that this is a bad move.

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

[Mojouw]

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

When have they picked up an option and regretted it? Heyward's production was not really earth shattering until year 4. No one regrets his option being picked up. Many questioned DeCastro being extended. That's kinda cute now.

For pass rushers, here is a recent list of "late bloomers":

Melvin Ingram
Nick Perry
Jerry Hughes (not as clear cut as the other two)
James Harrison was cut how many times? By his own admission he had no idea what he was doing early in his career.
I can't remember what Cam Wake was doing prior to his age 27 season, but it certainly wasn't sacking NFL QBs.
Brandon Graham was worse than Bud Dupree for most of his early career.
Bruce Irvin took a few years to put it all together as a starter.
Dante Fowler still isn't anything but a specialized pass rusher.

I mean none of this is a guarantee or even a sign that Dupree is anything more than what he was last time we saw him play. But everyone paints this as this ill-fated decision that leads to an inevitable path of the Steelers paying Dupree $9 million dollars to sit behind a draft pick or something.

I mean, I guess anything can happen, but c'mon. Where are all these expensive players the team just keeps running out there in spite of terrible on field performance? Sure they give younger guys a bit more run than we all might like (the entire point of the new CBA) and sometimes they seem to fall in love with a random vet. But I can't think of the last guy they paid big $$ to and kept around once performance didn't match up...

[teegre]

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

Will power.

The Steelers have every right to cut him / not pay him that fifth-year. All it takes is will power.

Of course, the Steelers could do as you say (keep him for that fifth year). They could also sign him to a 5 year/ $50 million salary. They could do lots of things that are stupid, but using the fifth-year option does not guarantee that they absolutely will.

A few Steelers-related linebackers who suddenly got it in their fifth season:
-James Farrior
-James Harrison
-Mike Vrabel

[BlackAndGold]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4pTsh45Dg7jnDM6Q/giphy.gif

[stillers4me]

Why are we digging up a 3 month old thread?????????????????????????????????????????

It's news...make anew friggin post next time! It's not rocket science.

[Neversatisfied]

I dunno - the track record at LB is fairly decent:


Rk
Year
Rnd
Pick

Pos
DrAge
From
To
AP1
PB
St
CarAV
G
GS
Int
Sk
College/Univ



1
2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/draft.htm)
1
30
T.J. Watt (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattT.00.htm)
OLB
22
2017
2017
0
0
1
7
15
15
1
7.0
Wisconsin (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/wisconsin/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tj-watt-1.html)


2
2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/draft.htm)
7
248
Keion Adams (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamKe02.htm)
OLB
22


0
0
0





West. Michigan (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/westmichigan/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/keion-adams-1.html)


3
2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/draft.htm)
6
220
Travis Feeney (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FeenTr00.htm)
OLB
23


0
0
0





Washington (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/washington/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/travis-feeney-1.html)


4
2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/draft.htm)
7
246
Tyler Matakevich (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MataTy00.htm)
OLB
23
2016
2017
0
0
0
2
31
0


Temple (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/temple/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyler-matakevich-1.html)


5
2015 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/draft.htm)
1
22
Bud Dupree (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DuprAl00.htm)
OLB
22
2015
2017
0
0
1
12
38
24

14.5
Kentucky (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/kentucky/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/alvin-dupree-1.html)


6
2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/draft.htm)
1
15
Ryan Shazier (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/ShazRy00.htm)
LB
22
2014
2017
0
2
3
27
46
41
7
7.0
Ohio St. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/ohiost/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ryan-shazier-1.html)


7
2014 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/draft.htm)
6
192
Jordan Zumwalt (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Z/ZumwJo00.htm)
LB
22
2014
2014
0
0
0
0
0



UCLA (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/ucla/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jordan-zumwalt-1.html)


8
2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm)
1
17
Jarvis Jones (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJa05.htm)
LB
23
2013
2016
0
0
2
18
50
35
2
6.0
Georgia (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/georgia/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jarvis-jones-1.html)


9
2013 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/draft.htm)
6
206
Vince Williams (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillVi01.htm)
LB
23
2013
2017
0
0
2
19
79
33
1
10.5
Florida St. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/floridast/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-williams-1.html)


10
2012 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2012/draft.htm)
3
86
Sean Spence (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SpenSe00.htm)
LB
22
2012
2017
0
0
1
12
53
23

6.0
Miami (FL) (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/miami(fl)/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sean-spence-1.html)


11
2011 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2011/draft.htm)
5
162
Chris Carter (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CartCh00.htm)
LB
22
2011
2017
0
0
0
6
75
4


Fresno St. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/fresnost/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/chris-carter-2.html)


12
2010 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/draft.htm)
5
166
Stevenson Sylvester (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SylvSt99.htm)
LB
22
2010
2014
0
0
0
5
50
2


Utah (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/utah/)
College Stats (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/stevenson-sylvester-1.html)






That's everyone from 2009-2017. Some nothing guys in the 5th and 6tth round. Not going to hold that against any NFL team at any position. At that point you are expecting to be choosing between special teams and depth players.

Spence busted out because of injury. Totally off-set by the massive win that is Vince Willliams. Shazier is a tragic win. Jones is a bust. Dupree is a league average OLB with a bit of upside remaining. Watt is a seeming win.

I keep hearing how there are all these LB draft picks the Steelers "missed" on. It is one. One guy.

I disagree, the LB core is mediocre when you consider the amount of work and attention put into the position

[Dwinsgames]

I disagree, the LB core is mediocre when you consider the amount of work and attention put into the position

I disagree with the disagreement .... if not for a freak injury sustained by Shazier last year we would be in pretty good shape at LB outside of upgrading Dupree ( that may or may not need upgrading depending on if his injury last year was what was holding him back or not )

[steelreserve]

When have they picked up an option and regretted it? Heyward's production was not really earth shattering until year 4. No one regrets his option being picked up. Many questioned DeCastro being extended. That's kinda cute now.

...

But I can't think of the last guy they paid big $$ to and kept around once performance didn't match up...

Jason Worilds comes to mind, although that may have been a tranny tag instead of the option, but that's sort of the second-round equivalent for that since there is no option.

As for the panic-signing because of one of the lines of thinking that I mentioned ... we have a long and unfortunate tradition with that. Worilds, Woodley, Kemoeatu, Colon, Starks ... no, it's not the exact same thing player-for-player, but a lot of the same surrounding factors are there. Thin at a position; really really really really hoping that a particular guy is the solution, because he's already on the team and wouldn't that be nice; guy being the solution would require a big improvement; retaining him requires paying an average or below-average player a premium salary; in general, not thinking clearly because we are all wrapped up in the situation by having 3 or 4 years invested in the guy and a similar number of years being lackluster at the position so it's a sore spot.

Never mind that that guy has been a starter for most of the time that the position has been a sore spot -- the two probably aren't related, right????? Like, Dupree is the starter and OLB is a problem for us, but that's some other guy's fault. Makes a lot of sense to me, at least when I'm smoking crack.



Will power.

The Steelers have every right to cut him / not pay him that fifth-year. All it takes is will power.

Of course, the Steelers could do as you say (keep him for that fifth year). They could also sign him to a 5 year/ $50 million salary. They could do lots of things that are stupid, but using the fifth-year option does not guarantee that they absolutely will.

A few Steelers-related linebackers who suddenly got it in their fifth season:
-James Farrior
-James Harrison
-Mike Vrabel

For all the reasons I just ranted about above, I don't think they have the willpower. Jones-Dupree will almost certainly be back in 2019 at a $10 million salary, it is practically guaranteed once they did this.

FWIW, I wouldn't include Harrison on that list - it was pretty well-known before his fifth year that he was a quite capable player, just not getting a whole lot of playing time because he was stuck behind Joey Porter (in fact, Harrison being so solid was one of the reasons why we felt comfortable letting Porter go). The fifth season wasn't some revelation where he finally "got it," it was just when he finally started getting on the field full-time. Vrabel and Farrior "got it" when they switched teams, and Farrior also changed positions.

[Craic]

Found it interesting to have Colon and Starks as cases of not being a good signing. Towards the end of their careers, they were the best lineman we had. Colon especially. He jumped off sides, sure, but he was pretty dang good. Colon, after he lost his position a second time, seemed to come back and finally have his head in the game.

In short, I get what you're saying, but I don't get where you think we're going to find two LBs better than Dupree for what he'll cost us this coming year. That's the real issue. The tag can be pulled unless he's injured. If we get a good LB this time and again in the next draft, then drop him. If we can find someone in FA that can beat him out of his position, then let him go. But exercising an option right now that has almost no negative effect does not make sense. At all.

[st33lersguy]

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

Spot on. If he disappoints again (he probably will, he's just an athlete that was given a football jersey and football position) and they didn't pick up the 5th year option, at least I know that they'd rid themselves of him. I could easily see them picking up the 5th year option and then we are looking at giving $10 million a year to a guy who played below average football for 4 years to play below average football for a 5th year because "He's athletic, he can turn it around" and "we don't want to admit we made a mistake".

[teegre]

For all the reasons I just ranted about above, I don't think they have the willpower. Jones-Dupree will almost certainly be back in 2019 at a $10 million salary, it is practically guaranteed once they did this.

FWIW, I wouldn't include Harrison on that list - it was pretty well-known before his fifth year that he was a quite capable player, just not getting a whole lot of playing time because he was stuck behind Joey Porter (in fact, Harrison being so solid was one of the reasons why we felt comfortable letting Porter go). The fifth season wasn't some revelation where he finally "got it," it was just when he finally started getting on the field full-time. Vrabel and Farrior "got it" when they switched teams, and Farrior also changed positions.

Your use of the words “almost certainly” and “practically” are a lot like my use of the word “could”...

Harrison may not have taken five years to develop: he showed promise in 2005, but was stuck behind Porter... although, if he were able to play on the other side, he would have unseated Clark Haggans (just as how if he could play on the other side he would have played ahead of Dupree). The point is that he was cut five times... meaning he wasn’t a finished product for a while.

Vrabrl left. Okay? :noidea: The point is that he became a great player after floundering for four seasons.

Farrior switched positions. Okay? :noidea: The point is that he became a great player after floundering for four seasons.

[Mojouw]

Woodley was a bargain when he signed. He was putting up double digit sacks each year and looked like one of the best young pass rushers in the league. No indications his body would fall apart.

Kemo was a moderate bargain when he signed. Not a great guard, but an adequate player for very little money -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2009/03/chris-kemoeatu-contract-numbers/

Colon and Starks were solid players on reasonable contracts. I agree that all three wouldn't be able to start on the current line, but at least Colon and Starks were above average.

Worilds is the only signing that felt a bit "panicky" - Harrison was aging, Woodley had disintegrated, and Jones was not good. In that sense, you could get backed into a similar place in 2019. Watt is solid or better, Adams, Chickillo, and whoever the hell are just okayish. So you roll Dupree out there one last time.

But at the same point -- other than the # being distasteful, as long as Dupree's cap charge doesn't prevent the team from pursuing a replacement/upgrade at the position and making other moves, it won' t matter.

Long story short, I suspect that Dupree never plays on that option salary. Either he gets cut for not developing or he gets a team friendly extension because he "breaks out".

For me, there is often too much focus on the $ amount of a given contract, option, tag, or extension. But you have to put that #, whatever it may be, in a context. What would it cost the team to sign an improvement on the open market? What are other comparable players getting paid? What would the most likely draft cost be of a year one upgrade? And so on.

For Dupree it would be a Round 1 pick - maybe Round 2 in a deep class.

Here is the signed edge guys for 2019 - https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher/2019/. While 9 million and change isn't a bargain, what if Dupree does decent or better in coverage and puts up 8 sacks? That is likely a 9 million dollar edge guy in 2019 NFL dollars.

I want better production at the position as much as the next fan. Don't really care if comes from Dupree, a draft pick, or an outside free agent. But I do think that if it isn't Dupree than you are looking at either a Round 1 2019 pick or a 8-12 million dollar per year free agent.

[steelreserve]

Your use of the words “almost certainly” and “practically” are a lot like my use of the word “could”...

Harrison may not have taken five years to develop: he showed promise in 2005, but was stuck behind Porter... although, if he were able to play on the other side, he would have unseated Clark Haggans (just as how if he could play on the other side he would have played ahead of Dupree). The point is that he was cut five times... meaning he wasn’t a finished product for a while.

Vrabrl left. Okay? :noidea: The point is that he became a great player after floundering for four seasons.

Farrior switched positions. Okay? :noidea: The point is that he became a great player after floundering for four seasons.

The point with Vrabel and Farrior is that something changed for them to be able to succeed. Different systems, different roles. They weren't just doing the same exact thing as always and then suddenly got 5x better at it. If they were going to try Dupree at ILB, or DE in a 4-3, or even change the role of the OLB in the current defense, then OK, maybe you could convince me there's something that might unlock all this alleged potential he has. But they're not. They're going to have him do the same old thing and get the same old results.

Harrison showed great flashes of potential before they handed him the starting job. Maybe that would convince me there's something left to hope for with Dupree. But he hasn't even shown that at all. There have been stretches where he's OK, that's it. Average is a GOOD day for him. This is not the kind of player you "need" on your team, which is why I don't understand the option. He walks away, then so what? You're no worse off. Why even mess with the idea of $10 million?

It should also be noted that Harrison generated a lot of confidence in his ability as while playing as a backup (and getting paid peanuts). THAT'S the kind of guy you look at and go "wow, he has potential, imagine what he could do playing full-time!" Not the guy who has been the near full-time starter for three seasons and is barely getting by.

[Mojouw]

I'm kinda not sure I buy this revisionist history that everyone knew what the Steelers had in Harrison and he was simply blocked by Joey Porter. Look at the #'s:




Games
Def Interceptions
Fumbles
Sacks & Tackles




Year
Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
Int
Yds
TD
Lng
PD
FF
Fmb
FR
Yds
TD
Sk
Tkl
Ast
Sfty
AV


2002 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2002/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2002.htm)

93
1
0














0


2004 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/)
26
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004.htm)
lolb/rolb
92
16
4
0
0
0
0
3
0
0
1
18
1
1.0
36
9

4


2005 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/)
27
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2005.htm)
lolb
92
16
3
1
25
0
25
3
0
0
1
0
0
3.0
36
9

4


2006 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/)
28
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2006.htm)
lolb
92
11
1











14
6

1


2007 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/)*
29
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2007.htm)
ROLB
92
16
16
1
20
0
20
3
7
0
3
0
0
8.5
76
22

15




4 sacks and some special teams tackles prior to being put into the starting line-up. Prior to his break-out in 2007 he was basically known as that mean looking dude who body slammed a Browns fan.

Dupree:




Games
Def Interceptions
Fumbles
Sacks & Tackles




Year
Age
Tm
Pos
No.
G
GS
Int
Yds
TD
Lng
PD
FF
Fmb
FR
Yds
TD
Sk
Tkl
Ast
Sfty
AV


2015 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/)
22
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2015.htm)
lolb
48
16
5
0
0
0
0
1





4.0
17
9

3


2016 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/)
23
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2016.htm)
de/lolb
48
7
4
0
0
0
0
1
1
0
0
0
0
4.5
19
5

2


2017 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/)
24
PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2017.htm)
LOLB
48
15
15
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
1
0
0
6.0
31
9

7



Leaving aside the significant differences in ages (by 24 Dupree has a better career than a 24 year old Harrison), look at just the first handful of starts and games played. Or look at 2017 Dupree and 2007 Harrison. Only 2.5 sacks difference. The pass rush is more than sacks, and I bet Harrison had more pressures/hurries -- but the major statistical difference is in tackles and run support. If you are looking for an OLB that plays like Harrison did against the run, good luck. I've never seen anyone else do it like he did and I don't think we will for some time.

By the time Harrison entered the line-up, he was a finished product. With an arsenal of moves, and NFL body, and an understanding of his role in the defensive scheme. Dupree is only 3 years away from his entire defensive role being, "line-up and be faster than the tackle as you run to the ball".

Does any of this mean Dupree is going to be good? Nope. Does it mean that he could? Yes. Do I want to hold the lottery ticket (option year) if he does put his physical tools to use on the field? Absolutely.

I'm not ready to give up on a 25 year old pass rusher project simply because he isn't James Harrison. In fact, if the same thing was done in Harrison's example he would be known for competing in strongman competitions or sacking guys in the CFL.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Vrabrl left. Okay? :noidea: The point is that he became a great player after floundering for four seasons.

.

Vrabel was a guy that took a long time to make the adjustment from DE at Ohio St to OLB. He was also in a OLB room with Gildon, Porter and I think Carlos Emmons showed more promise earlier on than Vrabel. Your point of he still took time to develop, but had the talent is valid. I think Dupree was well known to be a raw talent at Kentucky and between injuries and taking time to develop, I think its a good plan to pickup his option.

[teegre]

Vrabel was a guy that took a long time to make the adjustment from DE at Ohio St to OLB. He was also in a OLB room with Gildon, Porter and I think Carlos Emmons showed more promise earlier on than Vrabel. Your point of he still took time to develop, but had the talent is valid. I think Dupree was well known to be a raw talent at Kentucky and between injuries and taking time to develop, I think its a good plan to pickup his option.

Thank you.

That is exactly the point that I was trying to get across.

[teegre]

The point with Vrabel and Farrior is that something changed for them to be able to succeed. Different systems, different roles. They weren't just doing the same exact thing as always and then suddenly got 5x better at it. If they were going to try Dupree at ILB, or DE in a 4-3, or even change the role of the OLB in the current defense, then OK, maybe you could convince me there's something that might unlock all this alleged potential he has. But they're not. They're going to have him do the same old thing and get the same old results.

Harrison showed great flashes of potential before they handed him the starting job. Maybe that would convince me there's something left to hope for with Dupree. But he hasn't even shown that at all. There have been stretches where he's OK, that's it. Average is a GOOD day for him. This is not the kind of player you "need" on your team, which is why I don't understand the option. He walks away, then so what? You're no worse off. Why even mess with the idea of $10 million?

It should also be noted that Harrison generated a lot of confidence in his ability as while playing as a backup (and getting paid peanuts). THAT'S the kind of guy you look at and go "wow, he has potential, imagine what he could do playing full-time!" Not the guy who has been the near full-time starter for three seasons and is barely getting by.

I used those three players as examples, because they were Steelers. A better/more current example is actually Melvin Ingram. Ingram was pedestrian for three seasons, and then BOOM!!! he got it in year four.

Going back to Harrison... why is it that everyone always talks about how Harrison was stuck behind Porter, but simultaneously fails to mention that Harrison could not beat out Clark Haggans??? Maybe it is because Harrison wasn’t ready yet... or, maybe it is because Harrison is only good from the left side (I honestly think it is partially both... which explains why they didn’t play him in front of Dupree: Harrison cannot play on that side).

Geoff Schwartz was talking about this very thing the other day, saying how the new CBA has limited practices so badly that players are not developing until years 3, 4, & 5. He dscussed O-linemen mainly, and how many of them used to start their first season, but now, you see many of them them floundering until year three. He said a lot of those guys get cut, not because they don’t have what it takes, but rather because they were not afforded the time to develop.

[Mojouw]

I used those three players as examples, because they were Steelers. A better/more current example is actually Melvin Ingram. Ingram was pedestrian for three seasons, and then BOOM!!! he got it in year four.

Going back to Harrison... why is it that everyone always talks about how Harrison was stuck behind Porter, but simultaneously fails to mention that Harrison could not beat out Clark Haggans??? Maybe it is because Harrison wasn’t ready yet... or, maybe it is because Harrison is only good from the left side (I honestly think it is partially both... which explains why they didn’t play him in front of Dupree: Harrison cannot play on that side).

Geoff Schwartz was talking about this very thing the other day, saying how the new CBA has limited practices so badly that players are not developing until years 3, 4, & 5. He dscussed O-linemen mainly, and how many of them used to start their first season, but now, you see many of them them floundering until year three. He said a lot of those guys get cut, not because they don’t have what it takes, but rather because they were not afforded the time to develop.

James Harrison would've never made it in the NFL with the new CBA. Some hot-shot draft pick on a cheap 3-5 year deal would've pushed him off a roster never to return.

[steelreserve]

I guess the whole reason why I don't see eye-to-eye with you guys is two things. First the idea that the option is "no risk to us" because we can just void it if we don't like it, so no harm done. I see it as very high-risk because we probably won't void it. Call it a gut feeling or what have you, but it has trouble written ALL OVER it.

Second being the odds of Dupree actually becoming a superstar next year. Because that's what he'd have to be in order for the option to be a "good" deal for us. Not just a decent player, not a star player who is worth $10 million a year on the open market because that's just breaking even - a superstar who commands $12M+ per season in a long-term deal. Anything less than that and we've gained no advantage whatsoever with the right to pay him $10 million. It's a very narrow window where there's any benefit at all to us - why even bother?

I just don't think he's very good in the first place, not even going to be average, just one of those guys who hangs around being extremely frustrating because he "should" be a lot better than he "is." It'd be great if he improved that much, but it'd also be great if I randomly found a suitcase full of cocaine just laying on the ground. But I am not going to plan things around either one of those happening.

The examples of players who finally improved after a few years ... that's great, but how many players have sucked for three years and then finally figured it out, compared to how many players have sucked for three years and then continued to suck? I'd guess that the second one is almost all of them. So if $10 million is on the line, I'd go with the odds and take the 95+ percent bet.

Again, make no mistake, it's not a "risk-free" deal - $10 million IS on the line, in a very real way.

[Mojouw]

But what that $10 million represents is the real question. Star pass rushers are not $10-12 million dollar per year players anymore. Consistent double digit edge rushers on 2nd or 3rd contracts are 15-25 million per year guys now. Take a look at Von Miller's contract - https://overthecap.com/player/von-miller/2/. In case you think that is an aberration here is Melvin Ingram's deal - https://overthecap.com/player/melvin-ingram/467/. Clay Matthews will earn $15 million in 2018. Khalil Mack will make almost $14 million in 2018.

2nd contract pass rushers under about 29 or so command roughly 8-11 million per on the market. Nick Perry basically is Bud Dupree. Look what he got - https://overthecap.com/player/nick-perry/1129/ -- 10-14 million per year (AVY of $12 million).

Honestly I think I am starting to see your point, but I can't get on board with it because in 2009 NFL cap dollars paying someone $9.2 million or whatever to do a bit better than league average at OLB is Zantac moment that likely leads to an ulcer. But in 2019 NFL dollars? Maybe bitter beer face, but not really a big deal.

Assume that Dupree continues to be totally average and underwhelming and the Steelers don't retract the option. Here is the current cap table for 2019 - https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers - that is a not a ton of guys signed for any money. There will be cap space. Now does that mean I would support burning cap space on a guy that doesn't give you much in return? Of course not. But it does speak to consequences. What exactly are they? There is no clear line from Bud Dupree's fifth year option to cutting Joe Haden to carve out cap space. Looking further down the speculative rabbit hole - here are the 2019 OLB FAs -- http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2019/outside-linebacker/. There is ONE name on that list that I would hope the Steelers would throw Dupree and darn near everyone elses salary at if he hit the market, Jadaveon Clowney. Wanna bet me now on how likely it is he sees the open market? So no clear straight line from Dupree gets his option year and the Steelers miss on FA pass rushing help. Maybe they pass on another FA? But then we are back to the wide open salary cap balance sheet.

The ONLY drawback to the whole situation is if the Steelers just look at the situation and are like "Naw. We're good." If between this draft and next off-season cycle no one gets brought in to provide an alternative, then it would be a bad outcome. But dollars wise, it is far more distasteful than disastrous.

[steelreserve]

The ONLY drawback to the whole situation is if the Steelers just look at the situation and are like "Naw. We're good." If between this draft and next off-season cycle no one gets brought in to provide an alternative, then it would be a bad outcome. But dollars wise, it is far more distasteful than disastrous.

Yes, that is another piece of it that is distressing - settling for mediocrity because we're stubborn about giving up on the sunk cost that's already been spent on the guy. That's why when people talk about their list of biggest recent draft busts and say "Limas Sweed because he was a high pick and didn't play," I would say "no way, Ziggy Hood because he played a lot and played badly, and held us back from finding a real solution for years." That's a big problem. I think getting Watt was a good sign that we're not necessarily just going to sit on our hands while the Dupree thing grinds its way to the gloomy conclusion ... but then again, maybe we are, and Watt was simply the end of the Jones crash-and-burn.

Speaking of Watt - THERE'S what a guy looks like who is a young player on track to be a difference-maker (and worth the option without question). Shazier was another one. Dupree has looked like anything but that.

As far as contract numbers go. I think $10 million gets you a good OLB; the best superstars in the game have long since priced themselves above that range, but that's what we're talking about here - what would it take for the option to be a "good" deal for us? Paying $10 million for a guy who's worth $14M or $15M, that's what it would take. Dupree would have to be an elite OLB for it to be a favorable deal, and he's got a long way to go before he's even good.

And even if shitty OLBs were getting $10M ... does that mean we want to pay $10M to have a shitty OLB? No way, I'd rather spend the draft pick and use the $10M on, like, a badass safety or a tight end. Dupree has been so ho-hum that at this point, I really wouldn't have any problem just taking some 4th-round rando next year, throwing him on the field and seeing how he does. That's essentially what we've been doing with Dupree, only it's been the same guy over and over.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Thank you.

That is exactly the point that I was trying to get across.

Yes, but the one big difference was that Vrabel was a 3rd round pick and Dupree is a 1st round pick. Ideally you want to see more production out of that 1st rounder and its easier to give up on a 3rd round guy that hasn't started to produce by year 4 in the NFL.

I know we all want to see Dupree progress like Anthony Barr, but IMO part of his lack of progress is due to injury and I'm starting to wonder how good the Steelers OLB coach is at actually developing young players.

[Dwinsgames]

Yes, but the one big difference was that Vrabel was a 3rd round pick and Dupree is a 1st round pick. Ideally you want to see more production out of that 1st rounder and its easier to give up on a 3rd round guy that hasn't started to produce by year 4 in the NFL.

I know we all want to see Dupree progress like Anthony Barr, but IMO part of his lack of progress is due to injury and I'm starting to wonder how good the Steelers OLB coach is at actually developing young players.



hold up a sec guys Vrabel was a very good football player even when he was in Pittsburgh , he just didnt get many opportunities on the field but when he did he produced ..

I can remember thinking back then why isnt this kid getting more reps ..... ( BilliCheat was thinking the same thing ) and snatched him up first chance he got ...

3 forced fumbles , 3 fumble recoveries and 7 sacks in very limited play during his time in Pittsburgh ..I would say thats pretty good work considering he didnt hardly play

[IowaSteeler927]

Bud has a chip on his shoulder now and reportedly stated that he wants to go out and dominate to thank the Steelers for placing their trust in him. He's shown flashes at times during his career, and I think he's been more consistent than Jarvis Jones ever was. This is a make or break season for Bud Dupree, this is usually when you really find out what a player is made of. I hope he finally puts it all together and hits double digit sacks, we need a dominant pass rusher badly.

[teegre]

Yes, but the one big difference was that Vrabel was a 3rd round pick and Dupree is a 1st round pick. Ideally you want to see more production out of that 1st rounder and its easier to give up on a 3rd round guy that hasn't started to produce by year 4 in the NFL.

I know we all want to see Dupree progress like Anthony Barr, but IMO part of his lack of progress is due to injury and I'm starting to wonder how good the Steelers OLB coach is at actually developing young players.

Bill Cowher once said that the draft is how you got players onto your team, but draft position didn’t mean squat. First round or fifth round, you all have to work on your game... and, the best player plays.

Of course, Cowher also forced Troy Edwards to start ahead of Hines Ward, simply because Troy was the “first round” pick. :lol:

Yeah... I love me some Joey the Player, but not so much Joey the Coach.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Bill Cowher once said that the draft is how you got players onto your team, but draft position didn’t mean squat. First round or fifth round, you all have to work on your game... and, the best player plays.

Of course, Cowher also forced Troy Edwards to start ahead of Hines Ward, simply because Troy was the “first round” pick. :lol:

Yeah... I love me some Joey the Player, but not so much Joey the Coach.

I completely agree with that. Once the pick is made, then they have to go out and perform. But lets be serious....there is a reason Cowher and staff found it easy to release 4th round WR Fred Gibson in training camp, yet 1st round pick OT Jamain Stephens was on the roster for 3 seasons.

[teegre]

I completely agree with that. Once the pick is made, then they have to go out and perform. But lets be serious....there is a reason Cowher and staff found it easy to release 4th round WR Fred Gibson in training camp, yet 1st round pick OT Jamain Stephens was on the roster for 3 seasons.

Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon... side 2, track 1