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View Full Version : Sean Davis Ranked As One Of League’s Worst Safeties



Shoes
01-30-2018, 07:44 PM
BY ALEX KOZORA (http://www.steelersdepot.com/author/alex-kozora/) JANUARY 30, 2018 AT 01:11 PM
Sean Davis clearly did not take the step many expected in 2017. His grade in Bleacher Report’s (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2755356-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-strong-safeties-of-2017-season)NFL 1000 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2755356-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-strong-safeties-of-2017-season) reflects that with Davis coming out as one of the worst in the NFL.
He was rated 51st out of 54 strong safeties only finishing ahead of household names like Xavier Woods, Da’Norris Searcy, and Shalom Luani. Davis finished with a grade of 57 out of 100, earning an ugly 9/25 for his tackling. Here is what author Kyle Posey wrote about him.
“Davis is likely still having Rob Gronkowski-related nightmares. Pittsburgh’s 27-24 Week 15 loss to New England highlighted Davis’ yearlong troubles in coverage, as he never seemed comfortable. The 24-year-old was a willing run defender and had no problem making plays around the line of scrimmage. However, he missed far too many tackles: 21, to be specific. Don’t be surprised if the Steelers upgrade this position in the offseason.”

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/sean-davis-ranked-one-leagues-worst-safeties/

st33lersguy
01-30-2018, 08:32 PM
Hopefully they get serious about upgrading the safety position this offseason

Psycho Ward 86
01-30-2018, 09:14 PM
We need a plug and play safety badly. I still have hopes for Davis, but boy, its a tight race between him and Dupree for most disappointing steeler of the year

BlackAndGold
01-30-2018, 09:43 PM
He took a step back this year after playing very well his rookie season. Davis is a talented player, so Imo it's still too early to give up on him.

PS: STOP THE SHOULDER TACKLING!!!

steelreserve
01-30-2018, 09:47 PM
Lesson learned: If a cornerback struggles in coverage at the college level, moving him to safety in the NFL means you now have a safety who struggles in coverage, and also in tackling compared to other NFL safeties. That's not good.

How often do these "great raw talent, needs coaching" players work out for us?

Now, how often do the "great game sense, not a superhuman athlete" kinds work. At least those guys make serviceable players a lot of the time.

Obviously in rounds 1-2 you should mostly get players with both game sense and athleticism. We tend to go yolo and overload on one or the other, though.

Mojouw
01-30-2018, 10:09 PM
Sean Davis is far bigger source of struggling on defense than Dupree.

Vikings had amazing defense with Barr at LB who is not much better than Dupree. But their safety play was amazing.

Davis and Mitchell made like 4 plays between them.


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Iron Steeler
01-30-2018, 11:02 PM
He took a step back this year after playing very well his rookie season. Davis is a talented player, so Imo it's still too early to give up on him.

PS: STOP THE SHOULDER TACKLING!!!


Hate the shoulder tackling. He thinks he is bigger then he is .

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honestly we should get a whole new secondary thrpugh Free agency.

teegre
01-31-2018, 05:50 AM
He took a step back this year after playing very well his rookie season. Davis is a talented player, so Imo it's still too early to give up on him.

PS: STOP THE SHOULDER TACKLING!!!

Yep. I was so, so high on Davis after his rookie season. He had the worst sophomore slump since... well... since Limas Sweed.

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Lesson learned: If a cornerback struggles in coverage at the college level, moving him to safety in the NFL means you now have a safety who struggles in coverage, and also in tackling compared to other NFL safeties. That's not good.

Davis was a safety, who switched to CB due to Maryland’s need at that position. Yes, he wasn’t good as a CB, but most safeties would struggle with that switch. (i.e. When he played safety, he played well.)

I honestly thought that we got a steal in Davis, because his play at CB did indeed drop him down from a “end of R1” prospect to a “late R2” pick.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-31-2018, 08:29 AM
I don't see them upgrading Davis, but he definitely was not as impactful of a player as is needed from the safety position. He's a good athlete and a smart player, so I am optimistic that he will improve his level of play this upcoming season.

Psycho Ward 86
01-31-2018, 11:09 AM
Yep. I was so, so high on Davis after his rookie season. He had the worst sophomore slump since... well... since Limas Sweed.

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Davis was a safety, who switched to CB due to Maryland’s need at that position. Yes, he wasn’t good as a CB, but most safeties would struggle with that switch. (i.e. When he played safety, he played well.)

I honestly thought that we got a steal in Davis, because his play at CB did indeed drop him down from a “end of R1” prospect to a “late R2” pick.

Im looking for your thoughts on S Kyzir White at some point in the offseason. You had me jumping on the West Virginia DB bangwagon the past couple years

steel striker
01-31-2018, 11:31 AM
Yeah he is still young has talent and, lets see if he gets better.

steelreserve
01-31-2018, 11:49 AM
Davis was a safety, who switched to CB due to Maryland’s need at that position. Yes, he wasn’t good as a CB, but most safeties would struggle with that switch. (i.e. When he played safety, he played well.)

I honestly thought that we got a steal in Davis, because his play at CB did indeed drop him down from a “end of R1” prospect to a “late R2” pick.

I wish I had more time to follow college football. Anyway, I didn't mean to imply he CAN'T improve (although it may have come off as that way), just that he's got an extra challenge in front of him to adapt to the NFL. We seem to draft a lot of those players, and a lot of them follow that pattern of pretty good for a rookie, shaky second year, then ??????

He could still go either way, and lord knows I hope it's the right one. However, I tend to believe that you're better off in general looking for players in the early rounds who have a 75 percent chance of being above average and a 25 percent chance of being busts, than guys with a 50-50 chance of being a star or a bust. Because a lot of those guys in the 75 percent "pretty good" group actually end up becoming "really good" anyway. If that makes sense.

GBMelBlount
01-31-2018, 03:19 PM
This year's defense should have improved over last years.

I am supremely disappointed as I am not sure we will have as good a shot as we had this year, for the rest of Ben's tenure.

DesertSteel
01-31-2018, 03:35 PM
He needs a FIRE lit under him to get back on track. Hopefully he's the type of guy to light his own fire.

Mojouw
01-31-2018, 04:02 PM
I'm interested to hear why people are excited about Sean Davis? I mean he played his rookie year and wasn't totally awful but he was pretty bad. He misses tackles in every phase of the game. He really hasn't done much of note in coverages except 2 or 3 fairly fortunate plays on TEs in the endzone.

I saw no real improvement over the course of his second year. I was once high on the kid based on college highlights and his measurables, but after 32 games or so in the NFL, I'm starting to lose the faith.

This is coming from a guy who typically stays positive on guys through their rookie deals. But I'm struggling to see how Sean Davis is all that much better than Shamarko Thomas. Would he do better if he was the deep safety and someone else played a more traditional SS role?

Psycho Ward 86
01-31-2018, 04:30 PM
I'm interested to hear why people are excited about Sean Davis? I mean he played his rookie year and wasn't totally awful but he was pretty bad. He misses tackles in every phase of the game. He really hasn't done much of note in coverages except 2 or 3 fairly fortunate plays on TEs in the endzone.

I saw no real improvement over the course of his second year. I was once high on the kid based on college highlights and his measurables, but after 32 games or so in the NFL, I'm starting to lose the faith.

This is coming from a guy who typically stays positive on guys through their rookie deals. But I'm struggling to see how Sean Davis is all that much better than Shamarko Thomas. Would he do better if he was the deep safety and someone else played a more traditional SS role?

I was one of the biggest Davis haters during his rookie season, but he actually did get pretty good in the 2nd half of the season (a lot of that was because the coaching staff wasnt forcing him to juggle his focus between slot corner and safety). He looked good in the playoffs too until the Patriots exposed the back end. Started slow again, really picked it up for a handful of games starting right around the Chiefs game (even saving multiple touchdowns) and then dropped off a cliff.

Count me in on the pessimistic side now, but theres extensive tape out there that suggests he could still be good. I find it odd that his inconsistency seems to appear to stretches of time rather than a game-to-game basis. Im going to speculate that confidence might play an issue?

steelreserve
01-31-2018, 04:44 PM
This is coming from a guy who typically stays positive on guys through their rookie deals. But I'm struggling to see how Sean Davis is all that much better than Shamarko Thomas. Would he do better if he was the deep safety and someone else played a more traditional SS role?

I'm not sure how that helps, since that position requires you to be good at coverage and also at immediately sensing which spot to run to.

That seems like his main problem. Just a tiny moment of indecision that kills. Being a tenth of a second slow to recognize the play in front of you and react correctly is exactly enough to produce the kind of struggles he's having both in coverage and in tackling. (The opposite of this, being able to do all that a tenth of a second faster than everyone, is why players like Leveon Bell or Troy Polamalu are/were so good.)

So I guess I can see how having more space in front of him might give him more time to react and make the right move on more plays. On the other hand, there are still plenty of plays as the deep safety where you have that same tiny window to react, and if you mess up there it's a huge play. So I'm not so sure I'd want that as a solution either.

There may not be a solution. If you're just not quite playing at the speed you need to be, that's not a "needs work" thing, that's a "can't cut it" thing. I hope it's not that.

edit: to the poster above, you may be on to something, that's the kind of thing where confidence absolutely could be part of it. One of the reasons why DB is such an impossible position to project, there's a whole mental aspect that probably only QB also has to the same extent. Lose your decisiveness, don't trust your first instinct even if it was the right one, and it's as bad as being wrong. That's why a guy like Mitchell is probably better than you would first think - I mean, he's no Ed Reed, but he's decisive and he doesn't give a fuck, so he might miss sometimes, but he doesn't flat-out lose many plays to hesitation.

st33lersguy
01-31-2018, 05:23 PM
A coach better than Carnell Lake will help. Also need a center fielder. Sean Davis did play well his first year so hopefully last year was just a sophomore slump that he snaps out of in 2018 and not a sign of things to come.

Mojouw
01-31-2018, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure how that helps, since that position requires you to be good at coverage and also at immediately sensing which spot to run to.

That seems like his main problem. Just a tiny moment of indecision that kills. Being a tenth of a second slow to recognize the play in front of you and react correctly is exactly enough to produce the kind of struggles he's having both in coverage and in tackling. (The opposite of this, being able to do all that a tenth of a second faster than everyone, is why players like Leveon Bell or Troy Polamalu are/were so good.)

So I guess I can see how having more space in front of him might give him more time to react and make the right move on more plays. On the other hand, there are still plenty of plays as the deep safety where you have that same tiny window to react, and if you mess up there it's a huge play. So I'm not so sure I'd want that as a solution either.

There may not be a solution. If you're just not quite playing at the speed you need to be, that's not a "needs work" thing, that's a "can't cut it" thing. I hope it's not that.

edit: to the poster above, you may be on to something, that's the kind of thing where confidence absolutely could be part of it. One of the reasons why DB is such an impossible position to project, there's a whole mental aspect that probably only QB also has to the same extent. Lose your decisiveness, don't trust your first instinct even if it was the right one, and it's as bad as being wrong. That's why a guy like Mitchell is probably better than you would first think - I mean, he's no Ed Reed, but he's decisive and he doesn't give a fuck, so he might miss sometimes, but he doesn't flat-out lose many plays to hesitation.

My thought was the few positive plays I remember seeing Davis have this season where in coverages (non-Gronk situations). So maybe more of a deep center-field role where he can take advantage of his speed and rumored ball skills to make some plays and his poor tackling and run fits could be hidden from view a bit more. I don't know. The Steelers have always been a bit muddy with their roles between safeties and I'm not really certain what roles and skills they want divvied up between the SS and FS positions. Or if they really even see them as all that different.

The only real question I have, is where the hell did this guy go? https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room-breakdown-analysis/2017/2/18/14629160/sean-davis-top-plays-of-2016-prove-why-he-was-the-clear-choice-for-steelers-rookie-of-the-year

Craic
01-31-2018, 07:08 PM
Perhaps there's a different reason altogether why he didn't look so good, and it has to do with the people who were/weren't in front of him. Last year, he had a very strong center LB corp with Timmons and Shazier as starters and Wlliams as a backup. Timmons being gone this year puts more responsibility on the safety as well. He had to keep a bigger eye on stopping the run as well as worrying about coverage breaking down from one of the linebackers. Then, when Shazier went down, that responsibility got enough worse. Moreover we also lost our CB on that side for several games after Shazier was out.

So, what I want to see is a strengthening of the ILB position and a little more depth at CB if Haden goes out. I also want to see Davis playing with a full year as a starter at the same position in the NFL under his belt.

Mojouw
01-31-2018, 07:22 PM
Perhaps there's a different reason altogether why he didn't look so good, and it has to do with the people who were/weren't in front of him. Last year, he had a very strong center LB corp with Timmons and Shazier as starters and Wlliams as a backup. Timmons being gone this year puts more responsibility on the safety as well. He had to keep a bigger eye on stopping the run as well as worrying about coverage breaking down from one of the linebackers. Then, when Shazier went down, that responsibility got enough worse. Moreover we also lost our CB on that side for several games after Shazier was out.

So, what I want to see is a strengthening of the ILB position and a little more depth at CB if Haden goes out. I also want to see Davis playing with a full year as a starter at the same position in the NFL under his belt.

I think that all does have an impact. The overall strength/weakness of the defensive unit as whole can really influence the performance of a specific player. But here is the thing, how does that explain the sheer ridiculous # of tackles that Davis misses? His awful angles in run support? Maybe it does, but I just don't see it right now. Also, I am not going to do the work to find out either. So totally willing to wait to pass judgement on Sean Davis, but his arrow is trending down for me far more than Dupree's is. I can at least fool myself into thinking that a healthy shoulder = better Dupree. What excuse does Davis have?

teegre
01-31-2018, 09:40 PM
Im looking for your thoughts on S Kyzir White at some point in the offseason. You had me jumping on the West Virginia DB bangwagon the past couple years

Kyzir is not as physically talented as Karl Joseph, but I swear that the defense didn’t miss a beat when he took over as a starter.

As you already know, the WVU secondary has to know how to play all five DB positions (that way they can mix up coverages). Some might say that this creates a “Jack of all trades, master of none” type of player, but I honestly love the versatility.

The reports out of the Senior Bowl were that Kyzir was amazing covering the TEs. And, since everyone in the AFC is trying to stop Gronk & Kelce, that alone might be enough to see him drafted in the mid-R2 range.

teegre
01-31-2018, 09:51 PM
Im going to speculate that confidence might play an issue?

Case in point:
At the end of last season’s playoff win against the Chiefs, Davis got flagged for a personal foul (helmet-to-helmet tackle). He was DONE... and the Chiefs could smell blood in the water.

Tomlin called a time out, and while the rest of the defense met with Butler, Tomlin counseled Davis (1-To-1) for the entire time out. Tomlin talked Davis “off of the cliff”... and Davis responded with the game-winning pass breakup.

So, Yes... Davis needs a lot of reaffirmation/coaching (but, the talent is indeed there).

zulater
02-01-2018, 07:15 AM
He took a step back this year after playing very well his rookie season. Davis is a talented player, so Imo it's still too early to give up on him.

PS: STOP THE SHOULDER TACKLING!!!

Agreed. The lack of progression by premium defensive picks and the outright regression of others speaks to serious coaching deficiencies with the defensive coaching staff.

Born2Steel
02-01-2018, 07:48 AM
Sean Davis has to play better. He has the physical tools to be a pretty good safety. I still have confidence that he can do it. Even so, the safety corps is embarrassing. Have to get better there.

KillerBees
02-02-2018, 12:29 AM
I don’t imagine mike Mitchell returns, the verdict is still out on Davis. A year at Free safety could be a different story but I wouldn’t be surprised if the organization decides to move on. I’ve seen what the draft has to offer at safety. It’s pretty strong, but does anyone know what the free agency could look like for the Steelers grabbing a veteran safety..( I know this isn’t a Steelers thing to sign FA)


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teegre
02-02-2018, 06:24 AM
does anyone know what the free agency could look like for the Steelers grabbing a veteran safety..( I know this isn’t a Steelers thing to sign FA)

Lamarcus Joyner would be stellar... but, there’s little chance that the Rams let him walk.

Eric Reid is a pretty good player. Kenny Vaccaro is pretty good. Morgan Burnett is alright.


NOTE: FS is actually one of the positions where the Steelers have indeed signed/played a free agent. Outside of three years with Chris Hope (drafted in R3) for 17 seasons, the FS position has been a free agent acquisition: Brent Alexander, Ryan Clark, Mike Mitchell.

KillerBees
02-02-2018, 08:36 AM
Lamarcus Joyner would be stellar... but, there’s little chance that the Rams let him walk.

Eric Reid is a pretty good player. Kenny Vaccaro is pretty good. Morgan Burnett is alright.


NOTE: FS is actually one of the positions where the Steelers have indeed signed/played a free agent. Outside of three years with Chris Hope (drafted in R3) for 17 seasons, the FS position has been a free agent acquisition: Brent Alexander, Ryan Clark, Mike Mitchell.

Good stuff. I really hadn’t looked back at the history of the Steelers FS position. That may be a move they make. Unless they feel the issue will be addressed via Draft day.


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El-Gonzo Jackson
02-02-2018, 08:45 AM
Lamarcus Joyner would be stellar... but, there’s little chance that the Rams let him walk.

Eric Reid is a pretty good player. Kenny Vaccaro is pretty good. Morgan Burnett is alright.


NOTE: FS is actually one of the positions where the Steelers have indeed signed/played a free agent. Outside of three years with Chris Hope (drafted in R3) for 17 seasons, the FS position has been a free agent acquisition: Brent Alexander, Ryan Clark, Mike Mitchell.

Yeah, any 3 of those guys will upgrade the safety spot, but the Steelers have historically never gone for those high profile of free agents. IMO, they would be like a Weddle signing, which the Steelers apparently had interest in, so I wont count it out.

Burnett is a guy I hoped the Steelers would have drafted out of GT in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Psycho Ward 86
02-02-2018, 09:25 AM
Ive been a big proponent of Eric Reid as an option. Morgan Burnett also makes a lot of sense. Pretty good, but substantially underrated safety. Hell, the packers in general have had the most underrated group of safeties for years.

High character guy? Art Rooney Sportsmanship Award nominee/Clean record. Looking for a leader? Burnett has been a defensive captain at every level, even in the playoffs when he was only 25. Need a guy who can wear a lot of hats? Burnett plays ILB/slot CB/boundary CB regularly in subpackages. Did the run fills from the safety position piss you off? Burnett is one of the best there.

Ted Thompson has been letting a lot of good players leave Green Bay after their 2nd contracts in recent years and the Packers already have Clinton-Dix holding a safety spot down + Josh Jones waiting in the wings.

Burnett to the Steelers just makes way too much sense

Craic
02-02-2018, 09:51 AM
I think that all does have an impact. The overall strength/weakness of the defensive unit as whole can really influence the performance of a specific player. But here is the thing, how does that explain the sheer ridiculous # of tackles that Davis misses? His awful angles in run support? Maybe it does, but I just don't see it right now. Also, I am not going to do the work to find out either. So totally willing to wait to pass judgement on Sean Davis, but his arrow is trending down for me far more than Dupree's is. I can at least fool myself into thinking that a healthy shoulder = better Dupree. What excuse does Davis have?

It doesn't, necessarily. Of course, it could also affect his timing so that he's making decisions later than usually and having to take bad angles to get places because he's having to think through all the responsibility. If that's true, however, I'd expect a marked improvement this year as he settles in. Or, it could just be bad tackling skills.