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Born2Steel
01-28-2018, 09:19 AM
This year the DL was a bright spot on an otherwise average defense. I don't think there is really anything negative to say about this position group at large. Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave, Alualu, Walton, and Levon Hooks should all be together for another season. I don't think there's any way that we see Shade Tree McCullers with this group next season. AND, if Hooks has not earned a spot over the BIG Mac, he should remain on PS.

It is my opinion that in the NFL, If you are not moving forward, you are getting passed. Not saying that personnel/position groups have to be changed, but that upgrading every position group has to be considered. YES, there are 'more pressing needs' to be addresses this offseason, but you have to at least take a look at what's available to make the DL even stronger and better. More dynamic, if you will. At the end of the season injuries caught up with even this group of guys. I think Tuitt nursed an injury for most of the season. Hargrave was not quite the same force at the end as he started out being. Alualu was a very pleasant edition to this group. I think we saw Walton become a quality backup player here. Hooks tyrned some heads inpreseason, but was unable to beat out McCullers for that last DL roster spot, which is disappointing. Since we tend to carry 6 DL on our roster, I see 2-4 player upgrades that CAN be made with this group. Big Dan is a UFA, and I doubt we see him as a Steeler again. Hooks, I think, is also a FA now and doubtful to return as well. We have Alualu contracted for 1 more year at $3.6M. Walton has 1 more year on his rookie deal. And we all know Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave are locked in for the forseeable future.

I guess the question/discussion here is, even though this was our strongest defensive unit this season, changes ARE coming. Who are some FAs, draft prospects, and guys already on the team you would want here long term. I think there will be a minimum of 2 new faces with this position group for the 2018 season. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate the true NT role in this defense too.

steelreserve
01-28-2018, 07:25 PM
I want to know what the deal is with Hargrave, are we planning on using him or what? Seemed like he was on the field a lot less this year, with Walton and Alualu getting most of the playing time. But I've always thought he's been effective when he's in the game. Basically, what the hell?

st33lersguy
01-28-2018, 07:33 PM
I want to know what the deal is with Hargrave, are we planning on using him or what? Seemed like he was on the field a lot less this year, with Walton and Alualu getting most of the playing time. But I've always thought he's been effective when he's in the game. Basically, what the hell?

I have a wild theory about this: The defensive coaching staff on this team is clueless

Born2Steel
01-28-2018, 08:16 PM
Hargrave had almost the exact same stats this season as he had last season. Just copy and paste. He did start out this season slow due to just coming off concussion protocol. I don't know if that hampered him any, no report that I can find on it.

By the numbers:
Heyward 45 tackles, 12 sacks
Alualu(backup for Tuitt) 39 tackles, 4 sacks
Hargrave 32 tackles 2 sacks
Tuitt 25 tackles, 3 sacks
Walton(backup for Heyward) 12 tackles. 2 sacks
McCullers(backup for Hargrave) 1 tackle

What I'm saying is McCullers has most likely played his last game as a Steeler. I just do not see him coming back. Therefore, get somebody to compete with Lavon Hooks and Hargrave for the starting NT spot. Hooks was undrafted and cut by the Packers before the final 53, then got signed to our PS. If concussions should come calling on Hargrave again, we will need the quality depth. Not a main priority, I understand. But if the DL becomes weak, this defense doesn't stand a chance. May even bring in somebody to compete with Walton as well. Better is better.

DesertSteel
01-28-2018, 08:17 PM
I really liked the Alualu acquisition. I think we need another rotational guy like him and we need to cut some dead weight (I think we all know who).

teegre
01-28-2018, 08:20 PM
(I think we all know who).

:nod: (Cam Heyward)

DesertSteel
01-28-2018, 08:26 PM
:nod: (Cam Heyward)
You're a mind reader!

pepsyman1
01-29-2018, 02:09 AM
We need a true NT. The gaps being opened against us in the run game are frightening.

Mojouw
01-29-2018, 08:32 AM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

This table seemsto say that the DL is not the problem. The line ranked well (team was #12 in Adj. Yards) but the LBs and secondary were awful in the run game (#30 in second level and open field yards).

What that tells me is that the Steelers run game issues are not because Hargrave is getting pushed around, but because the folks behind him are not tackling.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-29-2018, 09:18 AM
Its a solid group in the top 4 players in the rotation. Walton is a good DE, but plays tall still IMO, so I am really fine with the 5 linemen they have. Are we really thinking that the #6 D lineman is the key to something? I am not.

The front 7 played terribly vs the Jags in both meetings this season and that was apparent vs the Bears as well. Talent is there, John Mitchell is one of the best in the NFL, they just need to show up and not wilt in big games like their last. Its a 1 gap system, but could be some nuances of how they are to play (get upfield vs. squeeze down adjacent gap) which cause the issues?

Honestly, I don't think many will say that drafting a D lineman is big in the priority of needs.

Born2Steel
01-29-2018, 09:34 AM
Its a solid group in the top 4 players in the rotation. Walton is a good DE, but plays tall still IMO, so I am really fine with the 5 linemen they have. Are we really thinking that the #6 D lineman is the key to something? I am not.

The front 7 played terribly vs the Jags in both meetings this season and that was apparent vs the Bears as well. Talent is there, John Mitchell is one of the best in the NFL, they just need to show up and not wilt in big games like their last. Its a 1 gap system, but could be some nuances of how they are to play (get upfield vs. squeeze down adjacent gap) which cause the issues?

Honestly, I don't think many will say that drafting a D lineman is big in the priority of needs.

And I would agree that is not a big draft concern. That's not even the point of this conversation. They will bring in somebody to replace McCullers though, maybe Hooks, maybe someone else. And Walton is not cemented to his spot either. You are correct that the top 4 in the rotation are solid and safe. It's 5 and 6 that this thread is mostly discussing. When the DL broke down, the weak LB corps was exposed and got ran over and through. Quality depth on the DL IS a need to help prevent a repeat of that. Big Dan should be gone and Hooks couldn't beat him out for the spot, there is a roster spot need there.

Mojouw
01-29-2018, 02:46 PM
Looking at the charts from my earlier post, Steelers are 1-2 yards per run WORSE when the offense runs at Tuitt/Watt/Burns side of the field than the Heyward/Dupree/Haden side of the field. And they are at their best when teams run right at Hargrave.

So the rookie LB and the CB who doesn't tackle gave up a ton of yards. That seems like a "solveable" problem to me.

Notice how runs to the lazy, ineffective, and worthless Dupree's side is 2 yards per rush better than Watt's side? Also, as good as Tuitt is, that means Heyward is just stupid good.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-29-2018, 03:06 PM
Notice how runs to the lazy, ineffective, and worthless Dupree's side is 2 yards per rush better than Watt's side? Also, as good as Tuitt is, that means Heyward is just stupid good.

Yup, I have said the Watt doesn't set an edge well in the run game yet and that is expected as he should need to get a little stronger in the offseason. Some fans get upset when pointing out such things, but its just reality.

Dupree has the size and strength to hold up the run game well, but lets just be realistic in that his work as a pass rusher for a guy with his tools is just sad. I mean, learning some hand skills in pass rushing isn't really that difficult and he should have some by now. Some will say that "he isn't asked to rush the passer as much" and I will say that when he does he is largely running the wide arc and if he was effective, the coaches would use him more. If a guy can get to the QB, they will find a way to use those skills, but Dupree hasn't shown he can do that.

Mojouw
01-29-2018, 03:13 PM
Yup, I have said the Watt doesn't set an edge well in the run game yet and that is expected as he should need to get a little stronger in the offseason. Some fans get upset when pointing out such things, but its just reality.

Dupree has the size and strength to hold up the run game well, but lets just be realistic in that his work as a pass rusher for a guy with his tools is just sad. I mean, learning some hand skills in pass rushing isn't really that difficult and he should have some by now. Some will say that "he isn't asked to rush the passer as much" and I will say that when he does he is largely running the wide arc and if he was effective, the coaches would use him more. If a guy can get to the QB, they will find a way to use those skills, but Dupree hasn't shown he can do that.

Agree with both of those statements. For Watt, my point has only ever (tried) to be that he can set the edge and be effective at it. But you are totally right to point out that he needs to get better at it and like almost every young player needs to figure out how to add strength without losing speed/agility. For some reason, likely because it worked at previous levels, Dupree insists that the only way to get into the backfield is to try and run around the OT. Not in the NFL. Those guys will just let you run yourself out of the play all day.

Now that the season is over and I can kinda step back and think about it -- it is the just really bad tackling at the LB and DB level that should be the one thing current players could work on correcting. That's be worth a few run stops per game.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-29-2018, 06:53 PM
Now that the season is over and I can kinda step back and think about it -- it is the just really bad tackling at the LB and DB level that should be the one thing current players could work on correcting. That's be worth a few run stops per game.

LB play was sub par in the run game. The D line needs to control gaps or get upfield in their gaps if that is the scheme. The playoff game was apparent that the Jags D line was in the backfield, while the Steelers were standing at the LOS and running lanes were there to be had, plus neither Williams or Spence could get to the edges to tackle the RB running off tackle. Either the DE or OLB needs to squeeze those gaps down, or the LB needs to flow in a hurry.

Sure, they cant bring any S down in the box, as Mitchell is too busy talking to tackle anybody and Davis isn't strong enough to be near the LOS unless its on the edge. Time to bolster the LB and S positons, while expecting the D line to be better vs the run.

EzraTank
01-30-2018, 02:39 PM
We need a true NT. The gaps being opened against us in the run game are frightening.

This.

And saying our defensive line was a bright spot is a bit of a stretch. Whether it was coaching or poor play when you give up that many points and rushing yards it's not good. Those front 4 got NO pressure on Blake Bortles in two games at home this season. Unacceptable.