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Shoes
01-08-2018, 12:43 AM
Whenever the end of the regular season arrives, some teams start preparing for the playoffs, while others start their NFL Draft (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-draft) prep. One aspect of the next season which is on all teams’ minds, at one point or another, are pending free agents.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2018/1/7/16845422/complete-list-of-pittsburgh-steelers-2018-free-agents-nfl-afc-north

teegre
01-08-2018, 06:30 AM
My first thought: a whole lot of restricted free agents, which gives us at least one more season with them (unless they sign elsewhere... and, then we’d get a draft pick for them). We are in GREAT shape.

Tag: Bell

Re-sign: Boswell, Hilton, Nix, Chickillo, Finney, Canady, Feiler (all RFAs)

Hubbard is gone (alas). The rest are replaceable.

EzraTank
01-08-2018, 08:28 AM
We need linebackers to replace Shazier (assuming he isn't coming back at this point) and that can stop the run. We also could use another CB.

If Ben comes back (to defend our title) I like our offense as is.

Mojouw
01-08-2018, 10:03 AM
My first thought: a whole lot of restricted free agents, which gives us at least one more season with them (unless they sign elsewhere... and, then we’d get a draft pick for them). We are in GREAT shape.

Tag: Bell

Re-sign: Boswell, Hilton, Nix, Chickillo, Finney, Canady, Feiler (all RFAs)

Hubbard is gone (alas). The rest are replaceable.

I agree. But the dreaded "restructure" word is going to start showing up a ton in the off-season. While I don't think the cap situation is so dire that it will totally hamstring the FO in the offseason, the team is tight against the 2018 cap already with a TON of maneuvers still needing to be made. That likely means restructures for Heyward, AB, Tuitt, and DeCastro. Additionally, the bottom 1/3 of the roster is going to be let go. Guys like Hunter, DHB, and Moats are almost assuredly gone as well as almost all the safeties! It is gonna be wild to watch play out.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-08-2018, 10:04 AM
My first thought: a whole lot of restricted free agents, which gives us at least one more season with them (unless they sign elsewhere... and, then we’d get a draft pick for them). We are in GREAT shape.

Tag: Bell

Re-sign: Boswell, Hilton, Nix, Chickillo, Finney, Canady, Feiler (all RFAs)

Hubbard is gone (alas). The rest are replaceable.

I agree, but maybe they can get a deal done with Bell without the tag. Also Finney, Feiler, Hilton, Canady are all exclusive rights FA according to that article, so they can be tendered and kept with just the tender offer. I also would like the Steelers to try and keep Eli Rogers, as he adds depth to the WR group as we saw when JuJu, Bryant and now AB were inactive for various reasons.

Shoes
01-08-2018, 10:09 AM
I agree, but maybe they can get a deal done with Bell without the tag. Also Finney, Feiler, Hilton, Canady are all exclusive rights FA according to that article, so they can be tendered and kept with just the tender offer. I also would like the Steelers to try and keep Eli Rogers, as he adds depth to the WR group as we saw when JuJu, Bryant and now AB were inactive for various reasons.

Bingo, Rogers took a beating for some of his screw ups, but has proved to be a very good WR, I'd definitely keep him.

Psycho Ward 86
01-08-2018, 11:22 AM
I agree. But the dreaded "restructure" word is going to start showing up a ton in the off-season. While I don't think the cap situation is so dire that it will totally hamstring the FO in the offseason, the team is tight against the 2018 cap already with a TON of maneuvers still needing to be made. That likely means restructures for Heyward, AB, Tuitt, and DeCastro. Additionally, the bottom 1/3 of the roster is going to be let go. Guys like Hunter, DHB, and Moats are almost assuredly gone as well as almost all the safeties! It is gonna be wild to watch play out.

luckily it doesnt look like a splash signing is all that necessary. I hope we try to shore up at least one of the positions (with a starter) before the draft though: ILB, S, TE. ILB looks like the best spot to plug the hole, theres a ton of options out there, varying in all capacities.


ILB candidates: Kevin Minter, Navorro Bowman, Zach Brown, Demario Davis. Karlos Dansby (does he ever age? should be a willing 1 year stopgap at his age), Korey Toomer (read good things about him from Chargers forums, seems under the radar relative to a deep ILB free agent group. Would be my pick as a good starter within a medium/medium low range pricetag)

S candidates: Morgan Burnett (Underrated safety, i think my fellow Wisconsin natives can back me up on that one), Reggie Nelson (Age and playing on a horrid defense could bring his pricetag down. Would be a great stopgap), TJ Ward (playing on a forgettable team and a little drama with being miffed about being booted from the Broncos could bring his pricetag down. He is a former pro bowler after all), Eric Reid (Another former pro bowler as a rookie. Really smart, with desirable physicality if were worried about losing that with Mitchell. Played linebacker in subpackages for the 49ers so it could kill 2 birds with 1 stone for us in some capacity. I think i brought him up a while back as a realistic option), Tre Boston (1 hit wonder/Product of a really underrated front 7? Or is he a young kid on the up?), Lamarcus Joyner (If we wanted to go balls to the balls in free agency like last season for Ben's ride into the sunset, you go right here. Played CB/S in college and played CB for 3 seasons before blossoming as a safety this season. Never going to happen. Free agent blue balls, brought to you by, me)

TE candidates: Jimmy Graham (Anyone want to have another go at an expensive, talented, and injury prone tight end :lol:), Tyler Eifert (How many times do you want your heart broken by a talented but injury prone tight end)

Mojouw
01-08-2018, 11:52 AM
luckily it doesnt look like a splash signing is all that necessary. I hope we try to shore up at least one of the positions (with a starter) before the draft though: ILB, S, TE. ILB looks like the best spot to plug the hole, theres a ton of options out there, varying in all capacities.


ILB candidates: Kevin Minter, Navorro Bowman, Zach Brown, Demario Davis. Karlos Dansby (does he ever age? should be a willing 1 year stopgap at his age), Korey Toomer (read good things about him from Chargers forums, seems under the radar relative to a deep ILB free agent group. Would be my pick as a good starter within a medium/medium low range pricetag)

S candidates: Morgan Burnett (Underrated safety, i think my fellow Wisconsin natives can back me up on that one), Reggie Nelson (Age and playing on a horrid defense could bring his pricetag down. Would be a great stopgap), TJ Ward (playing on a forgettable team and a little drama with being miffed about being booted from the Broncos could bring his pricetag down. He is a former pro bowler after all), Eric Reid (Another former pro bowler as a rookie. Really smart, with desirable physicality if were worried about losing that with Mitchell. Played linebacker in subpackages for the 49ers so it could kill 2 birds with 1 stone for us in some capacity. I think i brought him up a while back as a realistic option), Tre Boston (1 hit wonder/Product of a really underrated front 7? Or is he a young kid on the up?), Lamarcus Joyner (If we wanted to go balls to the balls in free agency like last season for Ben's ride into the sunset, you go right here. Played CB/S in college and played CB for 3 seasons before blossoming as a safety this season. Never going to happen. Free agent blue balls, brought to you by, me)

TE candidates: Jimmy Graham (Anyone want to have another go at an expensive, talented, and injury prone tight end :lol:), Tyler Eifert (How many times do you want your heart broken by a talented but injury prone tight end)

I will back you on Burnett and Eric Reid. I solid "maybe" on Boston (although the Steelers seem to like him) and a "heck yeah if money grew on trees!" on Joyner.

For the ILB - all I got is a Mr. Yuck face. Steelers already have their "thumper" ILB in VW. They need an athletic playmaker who can go 3 downs. That's a draft pick plain and simple.

For TE - what about some cap magic and Vance McDonald returns? I think IF he could stay healthy he would be a really nice fit as the starting TE.

GoSlash27
01-08-2018, 04:33 PM
For ILB, we can fill that spot in the draft with Josey Jewell. That kid is the TJ Watt of inside linebackers. Plus, he can flip to OLB if need be. Currently projected to be a 2-3 round pick, but I'd pull the trigger in the first round.

I really hope the others are right about our ability to keep Lev Bell. I'm afraid this may be his last season in the black 'n gold.

For TE, I think we can get by okay without the x-man if need be.

- - - Updated - - -

For ILB, we can fill that spot in the draft with Josey Jewell. That kid is the TJ Watt of inside linebackers. Plus, he can flip to OLB if need be. Currently projected to be a 2-3 round pick, but I'd pull the trigger in the first round.

I really hope the others are right about our ability to keep Lev Bell. I'm afraid this may be his last season in the black 'n gold.

For TE, I think we can get by okay without the x-man if need be.

Psycho Ward 86
01-08-2018, 04:56 PM
Seems to me that a ton of rookie ILB's thrive as plug and play material. The safety market looks deep and the tight end market looks awful. Sounds logical to fill the hole at safety in free agency, and sit and wait for draft day for your ILB and TE.

I think Mcdonald is worthy of consideration for keeping if we can bring his $4.3 million salary cap hit down.

Oh yeah, and a sneaky utilitarian move for the offseason: Move William Gay to safety.

Wilcox is going to be gone, Mitchell is going to be gone if were smart, and depth will be thin. Gay isnt going to make this team next season as a cornerback. Haden, Burns, Hilton will be starters. Sutton will supplant anyone as the dime CB, who knows even take Burns' spot as a starter. Allen or a draft pick as a high upside developmental project/special teams player. Theres no longer a reason to keep an old declining DB on the roster with a $2.4 million cap hit when he isnt even going to be among the first 4 cornerbacks in the game. Unless said DB converts to an area (S) that were thin at. Gay is cerebral, a strong tackler, and knows how to play every DB spot in this defense. Communication will be synced up should we end up having to have him in there

Mojouw
01-08-2018, 05:06 PM
I really like Gay and think he has greatly assisted the development of the secondary this year and do not look forward to him moving off the roster. All that being said - he doesn't fit anymore at CB for the reasons that PsychoWard86 clearly laid out. I also do not think that you take a 34 year old player and make him one of the smallest and potentially slowest safeties in the league. Best situation for Gay is to offer him a spot as a coach if he isn't good enough to make the 53 man roster.

steelreserve
01-08-2018, 05:07 PM
My first thought: a whole lot of restricted free agents, which gives us at least one more season with them (unless they sign elsewhere... and, then we’d get a draft pick for them). We are in GREAT shape.

Tag: Bell

Re-sign: Boswell, Hilton, Nix, Chickillo, Finney, Canady, Feiler (all RFAs)

Hubbard is gone (alas). The rest are replaceable.

How's this for a radical move ... If we're fed up with Gilbert (not saying we are, but who knows how these things turn out with suspensions, up-and-coming players, etc.), releasing him is a $4M cap savings. Depending on what kind of deal we get done with Bell, maybe we do have enough room to keep Hubbard after all if we decide he's the future. Otherwise, though ... alas.

Beyond him and Bell, the rest are pretty open-and-shut cases; everyone worth keeping is an RFA of some kind. I could see us letting Rogers go if we take a WR as a potential Bryant replacement and want to get a look at him.

Oh yeah, and if we get Timmons back for a reasonable price (one can always dream), that could be the one "big" FA move and take some urgency off at ILB.

DesertSteel
01-08-2018, 05:07 PM
I think Bell comes down to earth a little and signs the same type deal he turned down this year. He knows the clock is ticking and another year of being tagged will leave him with 6 years of tread off his tires. Nobody is paying $15 for that.

steelreserve
01-08-2018, 05:09 PM
I really like Gay and think he has greatly assisted the development of the secondary this year and do not look forward to him moving off the roster. All that being said - he doesn't fit anymore at CB for the reasons that PsychoWard86 clearly laid out. I also do not think that you take a 34 year old player and make him one of the smallest and potentially slowest safeties in the league. Best situation for Gay is to offer him a spot as a coach if he isn't good enough to make the 53 man roster.

Do we want him as a starting safety? Hell no. Could he be a backup safety? That might be OK. Not for a lot of money, though.

tube517
01-08-2018, 05:38 PM
How's this for a radical move ... If we're fed up with Gilbert (not saying we are, but who knows how these things turn out with suspensions, up-and-coming players, etc.), releasing him is a $4M cap savings. Depending on what kind of deal we get done with Bell, maybe we do have enough room to keep Hubbard after all if we decide he's the future. Otherwise, though ... alas.

Beyond him and Bell, the rest are pretty open-and-shut cases; everyone worth keeping is an RFA of some kind. I could see us letting Rogers go if we take a WR as a potential Bryant replacement and want to get a look at him.

Oh yeah, and if we get Timmons back for a reasonable price (one can always dream), that could be the one "big" FA move and take some urgency off at ILB.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/29/16386928/miami-dolphins-lawrence-timmons-2018-guaranteed-money-voided-due-to-suspension

What does Timmons have left. Did anybody watch Dolphins games this year?

GoSlash27
01-08-2018, 05:48 PM
Oh yeah, and if we get Timmons back for a reasonable price (one can always dream), that could be the one "big" FA move and take some urgency off at ILB.
Steelreserve,
Lawrence Timmons' big weapon was always his speed, but I'm afraid he's lost a step since then. He was great in the old LeBeau scheme, but I don't think he's a good fit now.

Could be wrong and often am,
-Slashy

Psycho Ward 86
01-08-2018, 06:05 PM
https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/29/16386928/miami-dolphins-lawrence-timmons-2018-guaranteed-money-voided-due-to-suspension

What does Timmons have left. Did anybody watch Dolphins games this year?

Wow, if thats not divine intervention i dont know what is.

If Timmons is at least as good as he was at the tail end of his Steelers career im pretty warm to the idea

43Hitman
01-08-2018, 06:11 PM
https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/9/29/16386928/miami-dolphins-lawrence-timmons-2018-guaranteed-money-voided-due-to-suspension

What does Timmons have left. Did anybody watch Dolphins games this year?
I only saw a few, but he looked good and the fans really liked him.

steelreserve
01-08-2018, 06:21 PM
Steelreserve,
Lawrence Timmons' big weapon was always his speed, but I'm afraid he's lost a step since then. He was great in the old LeBeau scheme, but I don't think he's a good fit now.

Could be wrong and often am,
-Slashy

If he hasn't lost as much of a step as Spence, that's an improvement over now.

I don't think he's the long-term answer, but as a stopgap for a year, or a guy who can keep the spot warm until a draft pick can take the training wheels off, or a guy who can step in if there's an injury, he might fit the bill for all three of those.

I do think that you're right, long-term we want a guy who can pair speed and athleticism with Williams' game, which is more fundamentals and hard-hitting strength.

tube517
01-08-2018, 06:25 PM
Would Timmons fall asleep and snore during Olsalvsky's meetings?

teegre
01-08-2018, 07:38 PM
I agree, but maybe they can get a deal done with Bell without the tag. Also Finney, Feiler, Hilton, Canady are all exclusive rights FA according to that article, so they can be tendered and kept with just the tender offer.

True.
I always found it odd to call them free agents, when basically they can’t go anywhere.

- - - Updated - - -


How's this for a radical move ... If we're fed up with Gilbert (not saying we are, but who knows how these things turn out with suspensions, up-and-coming players, etc.), releasing him is a $4M cap savings. Depending on what kind of deal we get done with Bell, maybe we do have enough room to keep Hubbard after all if we decide he's the future. Otherwise, though ... alas.

I get your point, but Gilbert is our best O-lineman (which truly is a feat, considering Pouncey & DeCastro are no dlouchs).

Steelerette
01-08-2018, 08:13 PM
I wouldn't make this kind of change during the season/playoffs, but honestly I would draft an OLB to compete with Chickillo, and move Dupree inside. He'd be solid there.

steelreserve
01-08-2018, 09:55 PM
I get your point, but Gilbert is our best O-lineman (which truly is a feat, considering Pouncey & DeCastro are no dlouchs).

Well though ... One more fuck-up and he's done for a full year, I believe. He's a good player, no doubt, and we clearly intended for him to be here a while, so I wouldn't give it more than a 10% chance he's not in Pittsburgh best season. But you just never know.

IMO the real most important free agent is Munchak - he stays and we could probably make it work with or without any one guy. He leaves, we could have all the same players and within a year be back to mediocre as a unit.

Psycho Ward 86
01-08-2018, 11:25 PM
I wouldn't make this kind of change during the season/playoffs, but honestly I would draft an OLB to compete with Chickillo, and move Dupree inside. He'd be solid there.

What makes you believe Dupree will be good inside

teegre
01-09-2018, 06:20 AM
Well though ... One more fuck-up and he's done for a full year, I believe. He's a good player, no doubt, and we clearly intended for him to be here a while, so I wouldn't give it more than a 10% chance he's not in Pittsburgh best season. But you just never know.

IMO the real most important free agent is Munchak - he stays and we could probably make it work with or without any one guy. He leaves, we could have all the same players and within a year be back to mediocre as a unit.

The suspension thing is indeed scary, but “we can’t live in our fears”. :wink02:

If Munchak leaves to be a HC, I’d be fine with that. He deserves a shot. Would I prefer that he stayed: absolutely.

Mojouw
01-09-2018, 10:11 AM
Well though ... One more fuck-up and he's done for a full year, I believe. He's a good player, no doubt, and we clearly intended for him to be here a while, so I wouldn't give it more than a 10% chance he's not in Pittsburgh best season. But you just never know.

IMO the real most important free agent is Munchak - he stays and we could probably make it work with or without any one guy. He leaves, we could have all the same players and within a year be back to mediocre as a unit.

That's the recreational drug policy. The PED policy is different: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

Gilbert got a 4 game ban even though it was first offense, because apparently that is the policy. Next offense is a 10 game ban. Next one after that is 2 years at a minimum.

pczach
01-10-2018, 12:37 PM
That's the recreational drug policy. The PED policy is different: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11542076/nfl-union-ok-new-performance-enhancing-drug-policy-human-growth-hormone-testing

Gilbert got a 4 game ban even though it was first offense, because apparently that is the policy. Next offense is a 10 game ban. Next one after that is 2 years at a minimum.



The other thing that everyone has to consider is whether Gilbert is the same player without using PEDs.

I hear so many calling him the teams' best lineman. He wasn't that for quite a while. It's possible that is what got him to a different level.

Maybe Hubbard is the cheaper option. Maybe Hubbard is the better option that allows them to re-sign many players that they would love to keep.

There is much to consider.

Mojouw
01-10-2018, 12:58 PM
The other thing that everyone has to consider is whether Gilbert is the same player without using PEDs.

I hear so many calling him the teams' best lineman. He wasn't that for quite a while. It's possible that is what got him to a different level.

Maybe Hubbard is the cheaper option. Maybe Hubbard is the better option that allows them to re-sign many players that they would love to keep.

There is much to consider.

I have no idea with the PED stuff. Who knows? Maybe he is taking something that makes him a strong as the Hulk and as quick to recover as Wolverine. Maybe it really was an "accidental" mix-up. We will never know.

But we can address the cap stuff. Going rate for a non-top of the line and non-rookie deal RT is about $6 million per year. This is roughly what the Steelers are paying Gilbert. If you cut him he gives a dead cap of $3.4 million and $3.9 comes off the cap. So now you have to sign your "new" starting RT in Hubbard. Even if he only takes $4 million per year (a 100+% raise for him), that starting RT now costs you $4 million + $3.4 million - more than simply hanging onto Gilbert (the perceived better player), letting Hubbard walk, and elevating Hawkins to that swing tackle role.

Maybe their is wacky cap stuff about spreading things out and % guaranteed and all of that kinda stuff that makes Hubbard cheaper, but a quick simple math approach makes it look (at least to me) that he would be more expensive.

pczach
01-10-2018, 08:29 PM
I have no idea with the PED stuff. Who knows? Maybe he is taking something that makes him a strong as the Hulk and as quick to recover as Wolverine. Maybe it really was an "accidental" mix-up. We will never know.

But we can address the cap stuff. Going rate for a non-top of the line and non-rookie deal RT is about $6 million per year. This is roughly what the Steelers are paying Gilbert. If you cut him he gives a dead cap of $3.4 million and $3.9 comes off the cap. So now you have to sign your "new" starting RT in Hubbard. Even if he only takes $4 million per year (a 100+% raise for him), that starting RT now costs you $4 million + $3.4 million - more than simply hanging onto Gilbert (the perceived better player), letting Hubbard walk, and elevating Hawkins to that swing tackle role.

Maybe their is wacky cap stuff about spreading things out and % guaranteed and all of that kinda stuff that makes Hubbard cheaper, but a quick simple math approach makes it look (at least to me) that he would be more expensive.



I hear what you're saying. My only point was not to minimize the player that Gilbert has been, but to point out that we really don't know how long he has been using PEDs. There was a time not too long ago when Gilbert was a bit of a punchline and was more well known for injuring teammates than for his play. It's just something to think about. If Gilbert continues to play at a high level, his contract is a bargain.

That was my only point. I guess we'll find out when he returns.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-11-2018, 10:01 AM
I hear what you're saying. My only point was not to minimize the player that Gilbert has been, but to point out that we really don't know how long he has been using PEDs. There was a time not too long ago when Gilbert was a bit of a punchline and was more well known for injuring teammates than for his play. It's just something to think about. If Gilbert continues to play at a high level, his contract is a bargain.

That was my only point. I guess we'll find out when he returns.

IMO, Gilbert has been the Steelers best O lineman the past 2 seasons. He has gotten technically sound and there was always discussions early that he was athletic enough to play LT, but never really handled that side. He is probably one of the top 6 RT's in football, so I am good to ride with him. If he gets suspended again, which I don't know why he would, I am sure there is some provision in the CBA for cap relief from suspended players.

Hubbard is kind of a more athletic Willie Colon. Undersized as an OT, but can play it if needed. He should get an offer somewhere to play at Guard, so next man up. That in my opinion is Finney and Feiler. Feiler has the size to play OT, but he shows the ability to maul people in line as an OG. He pulled from LG in the preseason and just flat out blew up a defender in the Rt side A gap and drove him 7 yards downfield.

steelreserve
01-11-2018, 12:49 PM
The main thing I worry about with Gilbert is - how many players have been suspended for PEDs and then gone on to do anything of note after that? There are maybe a couple examples I can think of, which were Joe Haden and Dwight Freeney, and both of those were for stimulants. Anyone who's tested positive for steroids or hormones has generally played a couple unremarkable seasons afterward before being out of the league. Either they are constantly injured or just can't cut it anymore. Maybe Gilbert is the rare exception to that, but I do not like those odds.

As for the others, Finney is a no-brainer to keep; I think he will eventually replace Ramon Foster as a starter. Feiler as well, as we can keep him for cheap.

It is kind of a good point Gonzo brings up - hard to tell where exactly Hubbard fits in for the money and in terms of his role as a long-term solution. For an interior lineman, I'm perfectly happy with Finney. BUT if the Gilbert thing plays out poorly and we need a guy who can play OT, maybe Hubbard becomes our option by default.

The worst thing IMO would be if Gilbert goes into a steep decline and we keep him around for a couple years trying to force it, and those other guys move on and we've got to start from scratch, possibly without Munchak. That would be a disaster.

Mojouw
01-11-2018, 01:21 PM
Julius Peppers
Charles Johnson
Jimmy Smith
Duece McCallister
Brian Cushing
Both Williams DTs from the Vikings a few years back.
Jeremy Kerley

This is not to defend Gilbert or to excuse whatever the heck it was he is or was doing. However, there are many examples of guys testing positive and continuing to have productive NFL careers. Who knows with Gilbert...

steelreserve
01-11-2018, 02:24 PM
Julius Peppers
Charles Johnson
Jimmy Smith
Duece McCallister
Brian Cushing
Both Williams DTs from the Vikings a few years back.
Jeremy Kerley

This is not to defend Gilbert or to excuse whatever the heck it was he is or was doing. However, there are many examples of guys testing positive and continuing to have productive NFL careers. Who knows with Gilbert...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of those guys either got busted very recently or toward the end of their productive careers, no? (Peppers is the guy I meant when I said Freeney, busted for stimulants not hormones. And the Williams ones were kind of a weird one IIRC for something other than steroids, and one of them did well after that and one didn't.)

Anyway, the only point is that there is a risk, and not an insignificant one. Who knows what Gilbert will do next year or 3 years from now. I don't really care to make some holier-than-thou moral argument on whether he "should" be on the team, but just in terms of performance you have to flag that as a 50-50 shot that we could have a problem.

pczach
01-11-2018, 03:38 PM
IMO, Gilbert has been the Steelers best O lineman the past 2 seasons. He has gotten technically sound and there was always discussions early that he was athletic enough to play LT, but never really handled that side. He is probably one of the top 6 RT's in football, so I am good to ride with him. If he gets suspended again, which I don't know why he would, I am sure there is some provision in the CBA for cap relief from suspended players.

Hubbard is kind of a more athletic Willie Colon. Undersized as an OT, but can play it if needed. He should get an offer somewhere to play at Guard, so next man up. That in my opinion is Finney and Feiler. Feiler has the size to play OT, but he shows the ability to maul people in line as an OG. He pulled from LG in the preseason and just flat out blew up a defender in the Rt side A gap and drove him 7 yards downfield.


Yeah, it's hard to argue with that. It's just the doubt that creeps in when you see a player blossom, and then he gets suspended for PEDs.

I hope my concerns are completely unfounded.

Psycho Ward 86
01-11-2018, 06:46 PM
Gilbert has looked like his old self without PED's. Were really underselling how skilled he is if were assuming he'll have such a dramatic drop off in play without them.

I think it should also be pulled into account that he was going through some nagging injuries. Its not out of the ordinary for players to use PED's to recover faster.

$2.3 million in savings if we cut him pre June, $4.1 million in savings if we cut him post June. Take into account the cap hit for Chris Hubbard (since we'd be looking to sign him long term if that were the case) and you really didnt accomplish much in terms of cap savings while still having an above average RT. Its a push pull move. Seems overly complicated to make a nominal difference to the team. If we have a strong negatively trending hunch about Gilbert I think we should just trade him. Someones going to take him

teegre
01-11-2018, 08:21 PM
I’m not worried about Gilbert being suspended, because if he is, he is. In the meantime, we have one of the best RTs in the league.

Mojouw
01-11-2018, 08:49 PM
I find the average fans response to a PED suspension (typically a shoulder shrug) versus recreational drugs (outrage and indignation) to be fascinating.

Aren't both typically players self medicating? Or at least that is what they tell us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

teegre
01-11-2018, 08:57 PM
I find the average fans response to a PED suspension (typically a shoulder shrug) versus recreational drugs (outrage and indignation) to be fascinating.

Aren't both typically players self medicating? Or at least that is what they tell us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not worried about Bell being suspended, because if he is, he is. In the meantime, we have the best RB in the league.

steelreserve
01-11-2018, 09:11 PM
I find the average fans response to a PED suspension (typically a shoulder shrug) versus recreational drugs (outrage and indignation) to be fascinating.

Aren't both typically players self medicating? Or at least that is what they tell us.


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Personally my reaction to both is "you dumbass." Guys screwing over the team because of poor decisions.

In the case of recreational drugs I think it's maybe a bit more irresponsible because really, what the fuck? If it's steroids it's a bit more sinister given the intent.

I really think there should only be drug suspensions for PEDs; if it's street drugs it should be up to the team whether they want to put up with you or not - not a leaguewide policy. Fuck it, give me a team of all heroin addicts and if they perform well, they can shoot up in the locker room at halftime for all I care.

Steelerette
01-11-2018, 10:49 PM
I don't care of someone uses a recreational drug, besides the "you're an idiot" for risking a multimillion dollar career when they could have waited a few years then used all they wanted.

PED to me feels more like cheating, but I guess there's a lot of technicalities involved in PED infractions that it's plausible that positive tests could be by accident, or because of trainers.

Mojouw
01-12-2018, 10:50 AM
Personally my reaction to both is "you dumbass." Guys screwing over the team because of poor decisions.

In the case of recreational drugs I think it's maybe a bit more irresponsible because really, what the fuck? If it's steroids it's a bit more sinister given the intent.

I really think there should only be drug suspensions for PEDs; if it's street drugs it should be up to the team whether they want to put up with you or not - not a leaguewide policy. Fuck it, give me a team of all heroin addicts and if they perform well, they can shoot up in the locker room at halftime for all I care.

I would tend to agree. I have never understood why leagues get all hot and bothered about street drugs. It is all about PR. Outlaw street drugs but hand out opiods like PEZ?...Anyways, that is a soapbox for another time and place.

Again, I wasn't coming at anyone directly or with any specific intent. I just find it really intriguing that when guys get suspended for PEDS it is typically swept under the rug and not really talked about and we all buy into the "mistakenly taken something on the banned list argument" and move on. When it is narcotics, the player is "selfish" and "irresponsible/immature" and often their is an initial wave of public discussion about trading or cutting the player to preserve the integrity of the roster and all of that.

steelreserve
01-12-2018, 12:28 PM
I would tend to agree. I have never understood why leagues get all hot and bothered about street drugs. It is all about PR. Outlaw street drugs but hand out opiods like PEZ?...Anyways, that is a soapbox for another time and place.

Again, I wasn't coming at anyone directly or with any specific intent. I just find it really intriguing that when guys get suspended for PEDS it is typically swept under the rug and not really talked about and we all buy into the "mistakenly taken something on the banned list argument" and move on. When it is narcotics, the player is "selfish" and "irresponsible/immature" and often their is an initial wave of public discussion about trading or cutting the player to preserve the integrity of the roster and all of that.

I don't know how many people buy into the "oops, I didn't know what I was taking" argument for PEDs. Maybe the most gullible fans do. I think there's rarely any mistake on the athlete's part and that's just the easy go-to excuse. Or, maybe some people want to believe everyone on their favorite team is fundamentally good and not a cheater, and PEDs are a worse transgression in that respect - so they're more open to any reason that lets them give the player the benefit of the doubt. All kind of interesting psychological theories that could explain it, but that could go on for days.

Regardless, anyone who gets suspended for either kind of drug violation presents a problem for the team. If it came down to it, and I had to pick which was the bigger future risk between Gilbert and, say, Bryant, I honestly don't know. Obviously Bryant had a pattern of bad decision-making ... but on the other hand if a guy was really wrapped up in steroids, that can be a pretty dark road to go down, and getting busted for weed seems pretty silly by comparison. Either one is a pretty similar risk for the team, I'd say.

BlackAndGold
03-13-2018, 05:09 PM
Hubbard to Browns.

973680404585762822

Devilsdancefloor
03-13-2018, 05:53 PM
Hubbard to Browns.

973680404585762822

that is crazy money oh wait its the browns

steelreserve
03-13-2018, 06:15 PM
Hubbard to Browns.

973680404585762822

Well, I suppose that amount of money precluded it from being worth it for us to take a shot at keeping him.

Crazy, since I saw projections that he might go in the $4-5M range. I guess $8M is now table stakes for a "maybe" starter on the offensive line, which is incredible to me.

Mojouw
03-13-2018, 06:20 PM
Well, I suppose that amount of money precluded it from being worth it for us to take a shot at keeping him.

Crazy, since I saw projections that he might go in the $4-5M range. I guess $8M is now table stakes for a "maybe" starter on the offensive line, which is incredible to me.

Things are going to skyrocket this year. Multiple teams have ridiculous amounts of cap space. You need to hit the salary floor. Many of the teams that have cap space also really really stink.

I predict lots of just eye-popping overpays.

steelreserve
03-13-2018, 06:54 PM
Things are going to skyrocket this year. Multiple teams have ridiculous amounts of cap space. You need to hit the salary floor. Many of the teams that have cap space also really really stink.

I predict lots of just eye-popping overpays.

You may be right about that. I can't ever recall so many teams with $50M, $60M, even $100M of cap space. It's not like there are any more free agents than usual, so the money's got to go somewhere. I guess we are going to have to wait for the dust to settle before we figure out if even the mid-tier guys to fill holes are going to be available for a realistic price.

Mojouw
03-13-2018, 07:02 PM
You may be right about that. I can't ever recall so many teams with $50M, $60M, even $100M of cap space. It's not like there are any more free agents than usual, so the money's got to go somewhere. I guess we are going to have to wait for the dust to settle before we figure out if even the mid-tier guys to fill holes are going to be available for a realistic price.

Yeah. This feels like one of those years that we all just have to recalibrate "normal" for certain positions. For instance, Hubbard just got low end LT money and more than Gilbert.

In no previous "market rate" does Hubbard come close to that -- but here we are.

hawaiiansteeler
03-13-2018, 10:25 PM
Browns sign OT Chris Hubbard (5 years, $37.5 million; $18 million guaranteed): B+ Grade

The Browns entered the offseason with a strong offensive line with one definite hole, which was at right tackle. That's no longer a problem in the wake of the Chris Hubbard signing. If Hubbard lives up to this money, and Joe Thomas doesn't retire, Cleveland will have one of the top offensive lines in the NFL next year.

As for Hubbard, this is a ton of money for a player who wasn't a regular starter last year. Hubbard filled in at right tackle whenever Marcus Gilbert was out of the lineup, and he did a very solid job. Hubbard is also just 26, so he has good potential to improve his game even more.

Something else that needs to be considered is the lack of talent available at tackle this offseason. Excluding Hubbard, Nate Solder and Mike McGlinchey (via the draft), there are no sure things. I guess you can say Hubbard isn't a sure thing either, but he's the closest thing to one besides Solder and maybe McGlinchey. The scarcity of tackles drove up the price, so I definitely understand the Browns giving Hubbard this kind of cash. Thus, I'm willing to award them with a B+.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php