Todd Haley with the cowboys next year?

[polamalubeast]

947404210919956480

[vader29]

Hopefully he gets a job with them.

http://media.giphy.com/media/Q2PuhIauoFwY0/giphy.gif

[BlackAndGold]

If Ben returns, Haley is gone.

So yes, Haley to Dallas is possible.

[polamalubeast]

If Ben returns, Haley is gone.

Possible and I also think that Haley will not want to be back if he does not know if Ben is going to be back, so it could be Haley's last year with us.

But I think Haley is going to be back if we go to the Super Bowl.

[ALLD]

We could send Haley to Dallas now and not skip a beat. Do the Cowboys need a new STs coach too???

[fansince'76]

Possible and I also think that Haley will not want to be back if he does not know if Ben is going to be back, so it could be Haley's last year with us.

But I think Haley is going to be back if we go to the Super Bowl.

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

[st33lersguy]

Please take Haley Dallas, and let him take butler and Danny Smith with him

[Shoes]

and probably replace him with Fichtner. No thanks

[BlackAndGold]

Please take Haley Dallas, and let him take butler and Danny Smith with him

Who's going to replace Haley?

Butler is doing a fine job.

Special teams aren't an issue. Well the kick returns sucks but who cares? kneel in the EZ if you can, if not, don't fumble.

[polamalubeast]

Who's going to replace Haley?

Butler is doing a fine job.

Special teams aren't an issue. Well the kick returns sucks but who cares? kneel in the EZ if you can, if not, don't fumble.

947495976427597825

[steelreserve]

Yeah I don't get the complaints about the special teams. The kicker is good, the punter is good, and we're not giving up 50-yard returns every game. I guess we don't get big returns very often, but they're trying to legislate that out of the game anyway, so it's not such a big deal.

As for Haley, I don't love him or hate him. He can stay or go, I don't think it would make a ton of difference, unless we replaced him with a dumbfuck.

[Shoes]

Arians? I'd become the OC before that would happen. :chuckle:

[BlackAndGold]

947495976427597825

Yeah that bridge is burnt.

Also, Ben would get hurt as soon as Arians is hired.

[Steelersfan]

I am on the; Todd Haley hired as the next Cinci Bengals head coach taking over for long time owner favorite Marvin Lewis, bandwagon.

Looking forward to another 14 yrs of Bengals mediocrity.

[BlackAndGold]

and probably replace him with Fichtner. No thanks

Most likely candidate.

[Shoes]

Most likely candidate.

well Ben would be back then since Fichtner acts as his grandmother. :chuckle:

[zulater]

Most likely candidate.

Almost a given he'll replace Haley if he goes.


When was the last time a Steeler OC wasn't hated by a majority of the fanbase? :lol: Maybe Whiz?

[st33lersguy]

947495976427597825

Please no, we need someone who doesn't call stupid plays

[Lady Steel]

Bye, Haley. I hope you don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya if you leave.

No, we don't want Arians back!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Yes, please take Haley! No to Arians coming back.

[Mojouw]

Changing offensive coordinators would almost certainly help push Ben out the door. If a guy is questioning whether or not he wants to go through the grind each season, learning a new system and all that goes with that would almost certainly be a big negative in his decision making.

[lipps83]

The Steelers haven't had an efficient coordinator since Whisenhunt. I loved how they ran the offense when he was here. Arians and Haley were so enamored with 'big play potential' that the offense wasn't really 'efficient', but it was more 'explosive'. I would just rather let the players be 'explosive' because with Bell, Brown, Bryant and JuJu, they are 'explosive' enough on their own without necessarily designing plays like that.

Play smart, the players will display enough magic on their own.

[43Hitman]

Changing offensive coordinators would almost certainly help push Ben out the door. If a guy is questioning whether or not he wants to go through the grind each season, learning a new system and all that goes with that would almost certainly be a big negative in his decision making.
In my opinion not if its Fictner, Ben has a pretty good relationship with him.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers haven't had an efficient coordinator since Whisenhunt. I loved how they ran the offense when he was here. Arians and Haley were so enamored with 'big play potential' that the offense wasn't really 'efficient', but it was more 'explosive'. I would just rather let the players be 'explosive' because with Bell, Brown, Bryant and JuJu, they are 'explosive' enough on their own without necessarily designing plays like that.

Play smart, the players will display enough magic on their own.
Have you seen the cluster fudge of an offense than Whiz is running in Tennessee? He is universally regarded as almost single-handedly strangling the life out of that offense. His offense just doesn’t work in this era of the NFL. It is outdated and far too methodical.

Unless you like draw plays on third and long, your QB constantly throwing short of the sticks, and the total inability to move the ball quickly.

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In my opinion not if its Fictner, Ben has a pretty good relationship with him.
That may be true. I hadn’t really considered that. Maybe see if Batch wants to coach QBs?

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers haven't had an efficient coordinator since Whisenhunt. I loved how they ran the offense when he was here. Arians and Haley were so enamored with 'big play potential' that the offense wasn't really 'efficient', but it was more 'explosive'. I would just rather let the players be 'explosive' because with Bell, Brown, Bryant and JuJu, they are 'explosive' enough on their own without necessarily designing plays like that.

Play smart, the players will display enough magic on their own.


I agree on Whisenhunt....I watched some games of the 2004 and 2005 seasons lately and Whisenhunt is easily our best OC in the Roethlisberger era.

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Have you seen the cluster fudge of an offense than Whiz is running in Tennessee? He is universally regarded as almost single-handedly strangling the life out of that offense. His offense just doesn’t work in this era of the NFL. It is outdated and far too methodical.

Unless you like draw plays on third and long, your QB constantly throwing short of the sticks, and the total inability to move the ball quickly.


Whisenhunt is a terrible HC but a very good OC.

[Lady Steel]

<snip> I would just rather let the players be 'explosive' because with Bell, Brown, Bryant and JuJu, they are 'explosive' enough on their own without necessarily designing plays like that.

Play smart, the players will display enough magic on their own.

Exactly. Let our stars shine on their own.

[Mojouw]

I agree on Whisenhunt....I watched some games of the 2004 and 2005 seasons lately and Whisenhunt is easily our best OC in the Roethlisberger era.

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Whisenhunt is a terrible HC but a very good OC.

Nope. Nope. Nope. It is Todd Haley by a country mile. Whiz’s offense would stagnate in the current NFL — oh wait, it totally has in Tennessee. The talent on offense for that team is pretty darn good and the offense craps the bed every year. Whiz insists on playing Murray over the far more explosive and dynamic Henry, Mariota regresses on an almost weekly basis. It is bad.

Watch what happens when Haley leaves. You all need to be careful what you wish for!

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I agree on Whisenhunt....I watched some games of the 2004 and 2005 seasons lately and Whisenhunt is easily our best OC in the Roethlisberger era.

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Whisenhunt is a terrible HC but a very good OC.
No. He just isn’t. Malarkey runs Whiz’s offense in Tennessee and it is bad. It is going to get them both fired. 12 years ago he ran a pretty good offense. That is a geological era in NFL time. His system is dated and ineffective.

[polamalubeast]

Nope. Nope. Nope. It is Todd Haley by a country mile. Whiz’s offense would stagnate in the current NFL — oh wait, it totally has in Tennessee. The talent on offense for that team is pretty darn good and the offense craps the bed every year. Whiz insists on playing Murray over the far more explosive and dynamic Henry, Mariota regresses on an almost weekly basis. It is bad.

Watch what happens when Haley leaves. You all need to be careful what you wish for!

I think you're talking about Mike Murlarkey and not Ken Whisenhunt.

I agree on Murlarkey, he would be worse than Haley!

Whisenhunt is with the chargers right now and he was our OC from 2004 to 2006.

[lipps83]

Have you seen the cluster fudge of an offense than Whiz is running in Tennessee? He is universally regarded as almost single-handedly strangling the life out of that offense. His offense just doesn’t work in this era of the NFL. It is outdated and far too methodical.

That wasn't my point. I am not saying 'bring him back', I am saying what he did 'worked' and 'worked fairly well' while he was here.


Unless you like draw plays on third and long, your QB constantly throwing short of the sticks, and the total inability to move the ball quickly.

We have these same issues. We just call them 30 yard bombs on 3rd and inches, WR screens for 2 yards 10x a game and so on.

[Mojouw]

I think you're talking about Mike Murlarkey and not Ken Whisenhunt.

I agree on Murlarkey, he would be worse than Haley!

Whisenhunt is with the chargers right now and he was our OC from 2004 to 2006.
Dooooooooohhhhhhhh!!!!! Never post without coffee! I was sure that both those guys were at Tennessee.

Apologies to everyone, that was a totally ridiculous mistake on my part.

Polamalunbeast is correct. Whiz is a bad HC but a pretty good OC. Him and Haley are pretty close in my mind. I actually like Haley’s scheme - in fact I really like it. I question his game day strategies, but I like the underlying scheme a whole bunch.

But then, I am a sucker for the big play centered offense. Always have been.

[vasteeler]

As usual I'm in the minority... Keep Haley, he's not as bad as you guy make him out to be.

[Dissolv]

Yeeeeeeeah, although Haley is definitely not a guy that presents himself as a "people person", looking at the body of work, he's been the best that we've had. Less Ben hurt, more yards, way, way, way more high 30's and 40 point games. And yes, he has the super stars, unlike Steelers teams of old. But we are looking at a 13-3 season here people. I would not be so quick to "fire" people, no matter the warts they display (on field and off).

Like it or not, we've been amazingly successful for some time. Haley has been a part of that equation. This isn't like LeBeau or Arians where there were specific, obvious weaknesses that just were never going to be addressed. This offense has a good ToP, good points, and good win record. It is not perfect, and it could use tweaked. But has Haley show an inability to make those tweaks? I would say not yet. But mess with the Jenga pieces at your own peril.

Now if he moves on for his own reasons, like a HC job, or if Ben just can't stand him -- that's a different deal. I am talking just about fan angst here.


Dissolv

[zulater]

In my opinion not if its Fictner, Ben has a pretty good relationship with him.

That's who it's going to be next year. Haley's gone one way or the other. Whatever truce Ben and Haley had come to has pretty much eroded this year. Ben wants Fichtner. The offense will virtually be the same. Basically the only difference will be you'll remove Haley's ego from the equation. Which probably wont be a bad thing.

Btw I'm not a Haley hater. If a play works the players are great. If it doesn't Haley's play call sucked. :lol: Tough audience. Anyway I think he prolonged Ben's career. Got him to get the ball out quicker. But at this point I don't think he'll be missed. These guys can run the offense without him.

[ALLD]

How about we trade Landry Jones, Todd Haley and Danny Smith to anybody for whatever we could get?

[Lady Steel]

If Haley leaves, I wonder if he will take the shrubbery and bathroom fixtures with him. :noidea:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Bill O'Brien is supposed to be a a strong candidate to get released. No way does Hue Jackson not get fired.

Either of those would be outstanding replacements


Sorry, not replacements. UPGRADES

[Hawkman]

As usual I'm in the minority... Keep Haley, he's not as bad as you guy make him out to be.

I’m with you in that corner.......but then we are both from Virginia.

[vader29]

No way does Hue Jackson not get fired.


947581846921064449

[Psycho Ward 86]

947581846921064449

Fingers crossed for Bill O'Brien then. My stars, Hue did everything he could to get fired

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

As usual I'm in the minority... Keep Haley, he's not as bad as you guy make him out to be.

I agree, I don't think he gets a look as a HC, so likely going to stay at OC.

Plus, the Danny Smith haters seem to have nothing to say about the way special teams played today. So funny, but Haters gonna Hate.

[GoSlash27]

I'll join you, VASteeler. Why all the hate for Boss Todd? All he's done was mold the Steelers into the most dominant offense in the entire NFL.

[hawaiiansteeler]

How about we trade Landry Jones, Todd Haley and Danny Smith to anybody for whatever we could get?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51-MX5K8-fL.jpg

[zulater]

I'll join you, VASteeler. Why all the hate for Boss Todd? All he's done was mold the Steelers into the most dominant offense in the entire NFL.

Was it him? Or is the talent level so high that any jackass who could diagram a play or two would look good? I'm not a Haley hater. But in recent seasons despite top tier talent we've struggled in the red zone and have been closer to the middle than the top in points scored. I mean you've got an o-line that's unquestionably one of the top in the league. You've got an elite rb, an other worldly wr, a top tier qb, so is he really helping or holding you back?

Plus you've got his hot and cold relationship with Big Ben. To me this will be the reason he goes if he indeed goes. Because while their relationship has never been chummy it's now reportedly hit virtual rock bottom. They don't like the site of one another is what I've heard from several of the beat writers. Ben will push hard for Fichtner's promotion when the season ends. For Todd's sake I hope there's safe harbor out there and he's courted by someone and everyone gets to save face.

[Shoes]

Was it him? Or is the talent level so high that any jackass who could diagram a play or two would look good? I'm not a Haley hater. But in recent seasons despite top tier talent we've struggled in the red zone and have been closer to the middle than the top in points scored. I mean you've got an o-line that's unquestionably one of the top in the league. You've got an elite rb, an other worldly wr, a top tier qb, so is he really helping or holding you back?

Plus you've got his hot and cold relationship with Big Ben. To me this will be the reason he goes if he indeed goes. Because while their relationship has never been chummy it's now reportedly hit virtual rock bottom. They don't like the site of one another is what I've heard from several of the beat writers. Ben will push hard for Fichtner's promotion when the season ends. For Todd's sake I hope there's safe harbor out there and he's courted by someone and everyone gets to save face.

Yep, Ben likes him some grandma Fichtner. :chuckle:

[GoSlash27]

zulater,
All good points, especially the undeniable fact that Haley is a world- class asshole and I would personally hate playing for him. Nevertheless, what we have now is working and looks like it will continue to work so long as we leave it alone. I wouldn't be quick to monkey with this offense if I don't have to.

BTW, happy New Year!

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zulater,
All good points, especially the undeniable fact that Haley is a world- class asshole and I would personally hate playing for him. Nevertheless, what we have now is working and looks like it will continue to work so long as we leave it alone. I wouldn't be quick to monkey with this offense if I don't have to.

BTW, happy New Year!

[zulater]

Yep, Ben likes him some grandma Fichtner. :chuckle:


Hey he's younger than I am! :lol: ( he's 54)

Honestly I think it would be a seamless transition if it goes down how I think it will. It may or may not help? But I guarantee it wont hurt the continuity that's been established with this cast. Fich wont try to reinvent the wheel. He'll keep what's working in. Outside of him giving Ben more play calling freedom and maybe more no huddle series per game, it will stay the same offense.

That's why I'm virtually certain that if Todd goes the job stays in house, and given Fichtner being one of Tomlin's original hires to his coaching staff ( in 07) and his good relationship with Ben he's the obvious choice.
!

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zulater,
All good points, especially the undeniable fact that Haley is a world- class asshole and I would personally hate playing for him. Nevertheless, what we have now is working and looks like it will continue to work so long as we leave it alone. I wouldn't be quick to monkey with this offense if I don't have to.

BTW, happy New Year!

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zulater,
All good points, especially the undeniable fact that Haley is a world- class asshole and I would personally hate playing for him. Nevertheless, what we have now is working and looks like it will continue to work so long as we leave it alone. I wouldn't be quick to monkey with this offense if I don't have to.

BTW, happy New Year!

You too Slashy! And the rest of the board!!!

[86WARD]

If Ben returns, Haley is gone.

So yes, Haley to Dallas is possible.

I think the rationale from this front office would be the total opposite. If Ben returns, so will Haley. Why would Ben want to deal with a whole new OC for one maybe two more years?

[polamalubeast]

No Todd Haley in Dallas....

948205035976093698

[polamalubeast]

948227071767142400

[Mojouw]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/4-top-6-scoring-seasons-franchise-history-come-past-4-years/

Why is everyone in a rush to change this? As maddening as Haley can be (and I get that he is a jerk), his offenses just flat-out put up points and don't get his QB killed in order to do it. If I was in charge and going to pull the trigger on a change at OC, I would need to be damned sure the new guy could meet or exceed the current offensive output. Based on the Steelers ranking in the NFL, that is only about 5-6 other coordinators. If they are not available, you are rolling the dice pretty darn hard.

[polamalubeast]

948276637711392768

[tube517]

Roethlisberger Explains Fichtner’s Return To Sideline; Says Relationship With Haley Is Fine

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/roethlisberger-explains-fichtners-return-sideline-says-relationship-haley-fine/


:hockeyfight:

Fichtner would be the natural choice if Haley's not retained. Haley's contract expires at the end of this year.

Fichtner was the Steelers' WR coach before he went to be the QB coach.

[polamalubeast]

Ben will be back next year but not Haley even if the steelers win the super bowl....

[zulater]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/roethlisberger-explains-fichtners-return-sideline-says-relationship-haley-fine/

n case you haven’t heard by now, Haley’s current contract with the Steelers is reportedly set to expire after this season. So, will Haley have his contract renewed should Roethlisberger ultimately decide he wants to continue his career? It’s hard to say for sure, but personally, I would bet that if Roethlisberger does decide to return for another season that Haley won’t be retained. If that’s ultimately what happens, odds would then be pretty good that Fichtner would take over as the team’s offensive coordinator.

[Craic]

Changing offensive coordinators would almost certainly help push Ben out the door. If a guy is questioning whether or not he wants to go through the grind each season, learning a new system and all that goes with that would almost certainly be a big negative in his decision making.

THIS. We just finished the last half of the season scoring over 30 points on average. Ben has settled in and is playing great. He is comfortable in a system. Now, people want to uproot that system and throw it away for another OC? Really? I guarantee you the language will change with a new OC and perhaps, the philosophy as well. Like it or not, Ben has experienced that only once, and he had to resort to the previous system at least once in the middle of a game.

Now, at his age, people here think he's going to voluntarily learn a brand new system only to play in it a year or two? I'd give even odds that if Haley is gone, so is Ben.

EDIT: Unless it is someone from inside the system who doesn't change it.

[polamalubeast]

THIS. We just finished the last half of the season scoring over 30 points on average. Ben has settled in and is playing great. He is comfortable in a system. Now, people want to uproot that system and throw it away for another OC? Really? I guarantee you the language will change with a new OC and perhaps, the philosophy as well. Like it or not, Ben has experienced that only once, and he had to resort to the previous system at least once in the middle of a game.

Now, at his age, people here think he's going to voluntarily learn a brand new system only to play in it a year or two? I'd give even odds that if Haley is gone, so is Ben.

EDIT: Unless it is someone from inside the system who doesn't change it.

Fichtner(our QB coach)will be our OC if Haley leave....The offense is much better since Fichtner is on the sideline...

[zulater]

THIS. We just finished the last half of the season scoring over 30 points on average. Ben has settled in and is playing great. He is comfortable in a system. Now, people want to uproot that system and throw it away for another OC? Really? I guarantee you the language will change with a new OC and perhaps, the philosophy as well. Like it or not, Ben has experienced that only once, and he had to resort to the previous system at least once in the middle of a game.

Now, at his age, people here think he's going to voluntarily learn a brand new system only to play in it a year or two? I'd give even odds that if Haley is gone, so is Ben.

EDIT: Unless it is someone from inside the system who doesn't change it.

Bingo! That's exactly what we're saying! It's going to happen because...

A. Haley's contract is up after the season.

B. Ben can't stand the sight of Haley.

C. Haley can't stand the sight of Ben.

D. Fichtner is waiting in the wings. One of Tomlin's earliest hires. Knows this offense and it's personell better than anyone on the planet. Gets along great with Ben and is likely to be poached as an OC by another team, particularly if Munchak gets the Arizona job if he's not promoted.

E. There will be no change to the offense except for the removal of Haley's ego.

[DesertSteel]

Bingo! That's exactly what we're saying! It's going to happen because...

A. Haley's contract is up after the season.

B. Ben can't stand the sight of Haley.

C. Haley can't stand the sight of Ben.

D. Fichtner is waiting in the wings. One of Tomlin's earliest hires. Knows this offense and it's personell better than anyone on the planet. Gets along great with Ben and is likely to be poached as an OC by another team, particularly if Munchak gets the Arizona job if he's not promoted.

E. There will be no change to the offense except for the removal of Haley's ego.
Bingo to your Bingo!!!

[tube517]

948276637711392768

Ben beat his ass in the octagon

[polamalubeast]

948303939686068230

[zulater]

Bingo to your Bingo!!!


Dilly Dilly!

[SteelerFanInStl]

948303939686068230

I've fallen and I can't get up!

[Shoes]

I've fallen and I can't get up!

:lol:

[Craic]

Where, exactly, is all this Ben and Haley hate each other stuff coming from? One outburst? It's been a media whipping horse for years, but there's never been any truth to it.

[GBMelBlount]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01/4-top-6-scoring-seasons-franchise-history-come-past-4-years/

Why is everyone in a rush to change this? As maddening as Haley can be (and I get that he is a jerk), his offenses just flat-out put up points and don't get his QB killed in order to do it. If I was in charge and going to pull the trigger on a change at OC, I would need to be damned sure the new guy could meet or exceed the current offensive output.

Based on the Steelers ranking in the NFL, that is only about 5-6 other coordinators. If they are not available, you are rolling the dice pretty darn hard.

The Steelers have the most loaded offense in the NFL and yet have struggled to put up the corresponding points much of the time.

[86WARD]

The Steelers have the most loaded offense in the NFL and yet have struggled to put up the corresponding points much of the time.

You say that, yet they put up 25+ points per game (more per game than 2016) and rank in Top-7 in the league in points per game. Top-4 over these last few weeks. It’s not like their schedule was as easy as say the Eagles, Chiefs, Rams, Patriots., etc. Not many teams had much more than that per game. Sure it could be better, but at the same time, these guys haven’t played together over an extended period of time...

[Lady Steel]

Geesh, we just can't get rid of this tool.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers have the most loaded offense in the NFL and yet have struggled to put up the corresponding points much of the time.

Maybe. I don't know how much I agree with that. 8th, 12th, 7th, and 7th in points scored from 2017-2014. And in 3 of those 4 seasons it was less than a TD per game between the Steelers and the top spot. With some pretty vicious home road splits and a few non Ben games thrown in etc. Can poke around here if you want: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game?date=2018-01-06

The "Fire Haley" of "Keep Haley" issue is one of those things that I struggle with. What are the parameters for evaluation? I mean look at 2017.



1
LA Rams (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/los-angeles-rams)
29.9







2
New England (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/new-england-patriots)
28.6







3
Philadelphia (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)
28.6







4
New Orleans (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/new-orleans-saints)
28.0







5
Jacksonville (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/jacksonville-jaguars)
26.1







6
Kansas City (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/kansas-city-chiefs)
25.9







7
Detroit (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/detroit-lions)
25.6







8
Pittsburgh (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/pittsburgh-steelers)
25.4







There are really only 4 teams that scored a meaningful # of ppg more - Rams, NE, Philly, and Saints. So are the various OC's for those teams better than Haley? Maybe. Two or 3 of them are HC's so no chance of replacing Boss Todd with Peyton, Pederson, or McVay. McDaniels with the Pats is going to get another head job. So if we go solely by 2017 ppg - Haley is the best coordinator left available.

Is the above argument a bit of a dodge? Of course. I find it hard to really talk about other teams coordinators because I don't watch them as obsessively as the Steelers. See the other thread where I mixed up Mularkey and Whisenhunt!

But what standards are those who want Haley gone and gone yesterday using? What is a reasonable set of PPG #'s? 30? Why? Because some players said so in an interview? Maybe they chose that goal because it was a bit ridiculous? A quick tour through the last 5 seasons from the site linked above indicates 1-2 teams come close to that # per year (used 29-30+ as the range).

Maybe it is red zone efficiency? Again, if so what are the boundaries of the evaluation? It could be individual player performance? Who besides Bryant has regressed? Wheaton? Rogers? Do they matter?

The most frequent criticism I hear is play-calling - mostly on individual plays. A quick search of some stats indicates that the Steelers ran just north of 1100 offensive snaps in 2017. Trying to remember the comment threads on gamedays, but I feel like 6 plays per game that have people smacking their heads and howling is a generous estimate. That works out to about 8.7% of the play-calls are ""bad". If we do it at 3 plays per game it is under 5% of the plays called. That means Haley is somewhere between 91-95% "good" at his job. Is that enough? I don't know, but it is at least something to talk about.

What about all the late game comebacks? Is that all Ben R or does Haley and the playbook get some credit there? Again, I don't know but it is a factor to consider. I know I have mentioned this before, but it works here as well. Where does Ben R throw when the game and season are on the line? He certainly throws to the sticks or beyond the majority of the time. Part of that is Ben R's make-up and part of it is that Haley's offense has plays that provide that opportunity. Where did Flacoo throw with the season on the line on 4th down? Short of the sticks to the slowest offensive skill position player. Now you can argue that this is because Flacco is a fraud and sucks. But why the hell was that route even in that play? It serves almost no purpose.

Again, I only point out that there are multitude of things to consider when evaluating "performance" and rarely are they made clear. For me it isn't about Haley is great or Haley sucks. It is about what exactly are the priorities for the offense and what are realistic standards?

[polamalubeast]

Maybe. I don't know how much I agree with that. 8th, 12th, 7th, and 7th in points scored from 2017-2014. And in 3 of those 4 seasons it was less than a TD per game between the Steelers and the top spot. With some pretty vicious home road splits and a few non Ben games thrown in etc. Can poke around here if you want: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game?date=2018-01-06

The "Fire Haley" of "Keep Haley" issue is one of those things that I struggle with. What are the parameters for evaluation? I mean look at 2017.



1
LA Rams (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/los-angeles-rams)
29.9







2
New England (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/new-england-patriots)
28.6







3
Philadelphia (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/philadelphia-eagles)
28.6







4
New Orleans (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/new-orleans-saints)
28.0







5
Jacksonville (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/jacksonville-jaguars)
26.1







6
Kansas City (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/kansas-city-chiefs)
25.9







7
Detroit (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/detroit-lions)
25.6







8
Pittsburgh (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team/pittsburgh-steelers)
25.4







There are really only 4 teams that scored a meaningful # of ppg more - Rams, NE, Philly, and Saints. So are the various OC's for those teams better than Haley? Maybe. Two or 3 of them are HC's so no chance of replacing Boss Todd with Peyton, Pederson, or McVay. McDaniels with the Pats is going to get another head job. So if we go solely by 2017 ppg - Haley is the best coordinator left available.

Is the above argument a bit of a dodge? Of course. I find it hard to really talk about other teams coordinators because I don't watch them as obsessively as the Steelers. See the other thread where I mixed up Mularkey and Whisenhunt!

But what standards are those who want Haley gone and gone yesterday using? What is a reasonable set of PPG #'s? 30? Why? Because some players said so in an interview? Maybe they chose that goal because it was a bit ridiculous? A quick tour through the last 5 seasons from the site linked above indicates 1-2 teams come close to that # per year (used 29-30+ as the range).

Maybe it is red zone efficiency? Again, if so what are the boundaries of the evaluation? It could be individual player performance? Who besides Bryant has regressed? Wheaton? Rogers? Do they matter?

The most frequent criticism I hear is play-calling - mostly on individual plays. A quick search of some stats indicates that the Steelers ran just north of 1100 offensive snaps in 2017. Trying to remember the comment threads on gamedays, but I feel like 6 plays per game that have people smacking their heads and howling is a generous estimate. That works out to about 8.7% of the play-calls are ""bad". If we do it at 3 plays per game it is under 5% of the plays called. That means Haley is somewhere between 91-95% "good" at his job. Is that enough? I don't know, but it is at least something to talk about.

What about all the late game comebacks? Is that all Ben R or does Haley and the playbook get some credit there? Again, I don't know but it is a factor to consider. I know I have mentioned this before, but it works here as well. Where does Ben R throw when the game and season are on the line? He certainly throws to the sticks or beyond the majority of the time. Part of that is Ben R's make-up and part of it is that Haley's offense has plays that provide that opportunity. Where did Flacoo throw with the season on the line on 4th down? Short of the sticks to the slowest offensive skill position player. Now you can argue that this is because Flacco is a fraud and sucks. But why the hell was that route even in that play? It serves almost no purpose.

Again, I only point out that there are multitude of things to consider when evaluating "performance" and rarely are they made clear. For me it isn't about Haley is great or Haley sucks. It is about what exactly are the priorities for the offense and what are realistic standards?

For the PPGs,the steelers would be higher if they would have more non offensive TD this year

I mean, the steelers had only 2 non offensive TD this year and I think the jaguars had 10 and the ravens had several too(6-8) ....

But for Haley ... I do not think he's a bad OC, but he's not a genius too!

I mean, when Haley had total control of our offense in 2012, the steelers were always 3rd down and long because of the dink and dunk but fortunately Roethlisberger was on fire in his situations for the first half of the season before his injury.

When Roethlisberger started having more control in the offense, that's where our offense started to get better and having a great o-line coach helped too.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Maybe. I don't know how much I agree with that. 8th, 12th, 7th, and 7th in points scored from 2017-2014. And in 3 of those 4 seasons it was less than a TD per game between the Steelers and the top spot.

You can save yourself some keystrokes and just walk away from the thread. Nobody is going to change their mind on this topic. 13-3 record, one of the top offenses for the past few seasons and people want to fire the OC.

Better question for you to ask is : "what OC currently on the job market would be an improvement and how can you prove that he would be an improvement?"

[polamalubeast]

At least our offense has been much better in the second half of the season, since the QB coach is on the sideline....For the entire season, the Steelers were 4th in points per drive.

[vasteeler]

Where, exactly, is all this Ben and Haley hate each other stuff coming from? One outburst? It's been a media whipping horse for years, but there's never been any truth to it.

I don't get it either. It must just be because Haley is the devil

[Mojouw]

You can save yourself some keystrokes and just walk away from the thread. Nobody is going to change their mind on this topic. 13-3 record, one of the top offenses for the past few seasons and people want to fire the OC.

Better question for you to ask is : "what OC currently on the job market would be an improvement and how can you prove that he would be an improvement?"

As always, someone has said what I meant in fewer words and far better! Thanks! That is the central question for me, and frankly, I can't come up with an answer other than rolling the dice on some "young/rising star" type.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l397998l2DT0ogare/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Hawkman]

As always, someone has said what I meant in fewer words and far better! Thanks! That is the central question for me, and frankly, I can't come up with an answer other than rolling the dice on some "young/rising star" type.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l397998l2DT0ogare/giphy-downsized-large.gif

“I think I’ll use a five iron”

- - - Updated - - -

Dilly, dilly

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

“I think I’ll use a five iron”

- - - Updated - - -

Dilly, dilly

" I don't think the heavy stuffs gonna come down for a while yet...I'd keep going"

" hey llama, how about something for the effort?"

"...its a mix of Kentucky bluegrass and California sensamelia.........."

One of the classics..:thumbsup:

[DesertSteel]

Where, exactly, is all this Ben and Haley hate each other stuff coming from? One outburst? It's been a media whipping horse for years, but there's never been any truth to it.
It's been there from the beginning.