Get over it

[RunNGun]

It was a drop. Plain and simple. Right in the rulebook is states you have to maintain possession through contact with the ground if the catch takes you to the ground. He caught the ball and immediately went to the ground and you could clearly see the ball spin when it hit the ground. He trapped it against the ground. If his hand was under the ball instead of to the side of the ball, and the ball doesn't spin on contact with the ground, then it's a catch. Jesse James choked, then Ben choked. The NFL is not rigged and the refs made the right call. Onto next week.

[Neversatisfied]

It's hard to get over this loss, the Steelers WILL NOT beat the Pats in New England and for me this was a playoff game. 0 points put up in the 4th quarter against New England even with the absence of AB is inexcusable. I loath the way this team is coached

[st33lersguy]

Agreed, and if a team doesn't want the refs deciding the outcome of the game, maybe they shouldn't wait until the final damn play every fucking week to try and win the game. Don't piss around with the lead and the ball, don't surrender leads. Leave the whining and bitching about the refs to bitch pigeon, bungal, and cowpie fans

[RunNGun]

It's hard to get over this loss, the Steelers WILL NOT beat the Pats in New England and for me this was a playoff game. 0 points put up in the 4th quarter against New England even with the absence of AB is inexcusable. I loath the way this team is coached

This one definitely hurt. Can't argue that. Everything thing you said may be correct, but there's always a 50/50 chance of winning or losing a football game whether it's at home or in Foxborough.

My post was more for the people saying we got screwed. Seeing it all over social media and a few members on this forum. It annoys me when people make bold statements about something they know nothing about. Read the damn rulebook.

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed, and if a team doesn't want the refs deciding the outcome of the game, maybe they shouldn't wait until the final damn play every fucking week to try and win the game. Don't piss around with the lead and the ball, don't surrender leads. Leave the whining and bitching about the refs to bitch pigeon, bungal, and cowpie fans

No kidding. I won't stoop to that level of a fan. And when will this team put a team away in the 4th quarter?

[fansince'76]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...

[Hawkman]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...

Me too!

- - - Updated - - -


It's hard to get over this loss, the Steelers WILL NOT beat the Pats in New England and for me this was a playoff game. 0 points put up in the 4th quarter against New England even with the absence of AB is inexcusable. I loath the way this team is coached

So I guess this season is over you. Frees up a few Sundays for you. Saves you a lot aggravation.

[cubanstogie]

I don't see how you blame coaches on this. Execution on many plays. Missed pic, holding on first down on a run call. Ben played great until the last play, poor execution. Davis getting schooled all second half. Ok maybe coaches on that one, let him get beat one on one all day. Not to mention the play that was called back. If a guy catches ball and lands on knee he has controlled it to ground. Then lunges forward and ball moves. I get it if he was out of bounds instead of goal line but on goal line just doesn't make sense. The coaches tried to adjust from last year so I give them some credit, our D is just not that good right now.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...

Waiting for the replies...

I won't get over this loss and I hope that the Steelers don't either. They should play with a chip on their shoulder for the rest of this season after this game.

[RunNGun]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...

Like I mentioned, I don't believe the NFL is rigged in anway. The referees do the best of their ability. They also make mistakes because they're human. Sometimes it's in critical moments of a key game on live television. Tonight wasn't one of those nights.

[fansince'76]

Like I mentioned, I don't believe the NFL is rigged in anway. The referees do the best of their ability. They also make mistakes because they're human. Sometimes it's in critical moments of a key game on live television. Tonight wasn't one of those nights.

I'm not blaming the loss on that play, I blame the loss squarely on Haley turtling up with a 5-point lead late in the 4th.

By the same token, the refs are far too conspicuous far too often in big games. Consistency in the way they call games is a huge problem as well. See the PI on Burns while Bryant had his arm held all the way down the field with no PI as well as Rogers getting tackled in the EZ with again, no PI.

[RunNGun]

I don't see how you blame coaches on this. Execution on many plays. Missed pic, holding on first down on a run call. Ben played great until the last play, poor execution. Davis getting schooled all second half. Ok maybe coaches on that one, let him get beat one on one all day. Not to mention the play that was called back. If a guy catches ball and lands on knee he has controlled it to ground. Then lunges forward and ball moves. I get it if he was out of bounds instead of goal line but on goal line just doesn't make sense. The coaches tried to adjust from last year so I give them some credit, our D is just not that good right now.

The rules also includes ball contact with the ground. So, knee contact would be irrelevant in this scenario because James was receiving a pass. However, if James were a ball carrier it would have been a TD. The difference that many are not seeing is James was a receiver, and not a ball carrier in that moment.

[Mojouw]

The rules also includes ball contact with the ground. So, knee contact would be irrelevant in this scenario because James was receiving a pass. However, if James were a ball carrier it would have been a TD. The difference that many are not seeing is James was a receiver, and not a ball carrier in that moment.
Nailed it.

[pczach]

The rules also includes ball contact with the ground. So, knee contact would be irrelevant in this scenario because James was receiving a pass. However, if James were a ball carrier it would have been a TD. The differenice that many are not seeing is that James was a receiver, and not a ball carrier in that moment.


I don't think that's all of it. I think that many think that James' knee hitting the ground equals two feet down(which it does when a receiver), and that he made a separate football move by lunging and controlling the ball when he crossed the plane. At that point, if the ball came out of his hand before he crossed the goal line, it would be a fumble because they feel he established control and became a runner.

I think that's how many are looking at it.

[Mojouw]

I don't think that's all of it. I think that many think that James' knee hitting the ground equals two feet down(which it does when a receiver), and that he made a separate football move by lunging and controlling the ball when he crossed the plane. At that point, if the ball came out of his hand before he crossed the goal line, it would be a fumble because they feel he established control and became a runner.

I think that's how many are looking at it.
That’s how many are looking at it but that’s not the rule. Once he crossed the plane he had to control to the ground. In the eyes of the rule he was never a runner. Highlights the absurdity of the rule.

[cubanstogie]

The rules also includes ball contact with the ground. So, knee contact would be irrelevant in this scenario because James was receiving a pass. However, if James were a ball carrier it would have been a TD. The difference that many are not seeing is James was a receiver, and not a ball carrier in that moment.
I get that, when does he become a ball carrier then. I would think if you have control of ball and knee hits you become ball carrier. I get you have to control it to ground but IMO which is obviously wrong if you have control while on a knee you have secured to ground. Bottom line for me is they were a bobble away from beating NE without their best weapon and without Haden. They have to have confidence that they could beat them. Rams lost to Seattle earlier in season and absolutely throttled them today. Any given Sunday. I would love for a rematch in AFC title game.

[Born2Steel]

The rule is what it is. That was a tough way to lose a game. I'm still proud of this team. We knew we were going to need everyone in order to beat that team, and yet we almost(still did IMO) win anyway. Our second half offense missed AB getting doubled. We will continue. This has not been decided. We are better with our backs to the wall anyway.

[Mojouw]

I get that, when does he become a ball carrier then. I would think if you have control of ball and knee hits you become ball carrier. I get you have to control it to ground but IMO which is obviously wrong if you have control while on a knee you have secured to ground. Bottom line for me is they were a bobble away from beating NE without their best weapon and without Haden. They have to have confidence that they could beat them. Rams lost to Seattle earlier in season and absolutely throttled them today. Any given Sunday. I would love for a rematch in AFC title game.
The new standard for a “football move” that establishes a player as a runner seems now to be tucking the ball away and changing direction.

Im not sure, but I think that since James got into the end zone while still securing 5e catch, the nonsense world of NFL TD catch rules Camembert into play.

[Rotorhead]

It was a drop. Plain and simple. Right in the rulebook is states you have to maintain possession through contact with the ground if the catch takes you to the ground. He caught the ball and immediately went to the ground and you could clearly see the ball spin when it hit the ground. He trapped it against the ground. If his hand was under the ball instead of to the side of the ball, and the ball doesn't spin on contact with the ground, then it's a catch. Jesse James choked, then Ben choked. The NFL is not rigged and the refs made the right call. Onto next week.

Except when they make a “football move” which he did when he turned and stretched across the goal line, if anything that was a fumble and recovery in the end zone, besides the rules also state once the ball breaks the plane, if it is in possession it is a TD, which clearly happened. Also his elbow touched after his knee, and he was touched by the defender before the ball hit the ground, at that point he is down by contact, with the ball across the plane . . . TD

[Mojouw]

Except when they make a “football move” which he did when he turned and stretched across the goal line, if anything that was a fumble and recovery in the end zone, besides the rules also state once the ball breaks the plane, if it is in possession it is a TD, which clearly happened.
That’s only if the player is a runner. Which he never was in this case. It is dumb confusing and wrongheaded but it has been fairly consistently screwing teams for a few years now.

[Fire Goodell]

Face it, we played a hell of a game, but it wasn't enough to win. It happens, and when you're playing a championship caliber team, it sometimes can come down to 1 play. Often times against NE, winning and losing comes down to just making 1 more play than them.

With that said, we proved we can hang with those guys even without AB. The Patriots are not a better team than us and we CAN beat them. Silver lining? We still control our destiny for a first round bye, and AB will be back and healthy for the playoffs most likely. This season is far from over guys.

[Rotorhead]

That’s only if the player is a runner. Which he never was in this case. It is dumb confusing and wrongheaded but it has been fairly consistently screwing teams for a few years now.

You missed my last part, I accidentally posted before I was done

[teegre]

AV killed one drive.

Davis should have had the game-winning INT with 2:01 remaining.

BB makes two bad passes at the end of the game (instead of safe passes and going to OT).

SUMMATION:
Those three situations were equally as important.

[Rotorhead]

I don’t count the last pass as a bad play, he has the inside position and was PI’d or it was a TD or an incomplete pass, either way we get the win or the FG, bad luck and bad no call for the last play.

[RunNGun]

I'm not blaming the loss on that play, I blame the loss squarely on Haley turtling up with a 5-point lead late in the 4th.

By the same token, the refs are far too conspicuous far too often in big games. Consistency in the way they call games is a huge problem as well. See the PI on Burns while Bryant had his arm held all the way down the field with no PI as well as Rogers getting tackled in the EZ with again, no PI.

Consistency I can agree with, but again, there's a lot going on in a football game so mistakes are made every week. It's inevitable. We have witnessed this ever since instant replay was introduced. With that being said, I can't agree with you on conspiracy.

[fansince'76]

AV killed one drive.

No, Haley calling two running plays for minimal gains after AV got nailed for holding and a false start killed that drive. Biggest game of the season, late in the 4th, 2nd-and-23 situation, and you take the ball out of your future HoF QB's hands and put it in...Fitzgerald Toussaint's? Really?

Well, at least Frenchy didn't fumble the game away like he did 2 years ago in Denver...

[j-d-s]

No, Haley calling two running plays for minimal gains after AV got nailed for holding and a false start killed that drive. Biggest game of the season, late in the 4th, 2nd-and-23 situation, and you take the ball out of your future HoF QB's hands and put it in...Fitzgerald Toussaint's? Really?
Kinda reminds me of Arians. 3rd and 2, spread 'em, empty backfield.

In the sense that some playcalls are just stupid. Not even risky, just plain stupid.

[Hawkman]

Well, at least Frenchy didn't fumble the game away like he did 2 years ago in Denver...

Still a little bitter are we?:chuckle:

[fansince'76]

Still a little bitter are we?:chuckle:

When I need to get out of a 2nd-and-23 jam, I'm calling Ben's number, not Frenchy's. I'm not waiting until it's 3rd-and-a-mile before I ask Ben to bail us out. That's all.

[teegre]

No, Haley calling two running plays for minimal gains after AV got nailed for holding and a false start killed that drive. Biggest game of the season, late in the 4th, 2nd-and-23 situation, and you take the ball out of your future HoF QB's hands and put it in...Fitzgerald Toussaint's? Really?

Well, at least Frenchy didn't fumble the game away like he did 2 years ago in Denver...

AV was called for a hold, followed by a false start.

And then, Yes, they didn’t pass it on second-&-23. With Bell in, I could kind of see it, since had had just had three straight 10+ yard runs. But, Toussaint wasn’t going to get much more than he got (3 yards).

[fansince'76]

AV was called for a hold, followed by a false start.

And then, Yes, they didn’t pass it on second-&-23. With Bell in, I could kind of see it, since had had just had three straight 10+ yard runs. But, Toussaint wasn’t going to get much more than he got (3 yards).

I could also see giving it to Bell in that situation. NOT Toussaint.

[fansince'76]

OK, so how was THIS a catch?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017121711/2017/REG15/Cowboys@Raiders?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2017121711#menu=drivechart%7CcontentId%3A0ap300000 0894964&tab=videos

[RunNGun]

OK, so how was THIS a catch?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017121711/2017/REG15/Cowboys@Raiders?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2017121711#menu=drivechart%7CcontentId%3A0ap300000 0894964&tab=videos

My guess is they ruled him a ball carrier after taking two steps and also palming the football. There was also no clear evidence in him losing possession of the ball. It moved a little, but it didn't spin and his hand stayed under the ball from what I could see. It just goes to show how hard a ref's job really is. Definitely a catch 22 in those situations, because one fan base is going to hate you.

[pepsyman1]

Based on what they said with James "drop" and the fact that the receiver rolled over with his hand on the SIDE of the ball, it moved and he squashed it to the ground with his body to regain control, that shouldn't have been a completion.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155147592672411&set=a.135963052410.120959.585842410&type=3&theater

[st33lersguy]

Here's an idea, how about not letting the ball move! AS a player, you have to know the lofty standards of what is and isn't a catch nowadays. As a player, you also have to know that the refs will find any reason to rule in favor of the Patriots so knowing that going to the ground you have to make sure the ball isn't moving (which shouldn't be too much to ask for anyway).

Of course what would help is if the Steelers had a TE worth something that isn't injured all the time

[Butch]

OK, so how was THIS a catch?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2017121711/2017/REG15/Cowboys@Raiders?icampaign=scoreStrip-globalNav-2017121711#menu=drivechart%7CcontentId%3A0ap300000 0894964&tab=videos
you are talking about the Seth Roberts bobbling catch and I completely agree.

[EzraTank]

The rules also includes ball contact with the ground. So, knee contact would be irrelevant in this scenario because James was receiving a pass. However, if James were a ball carrier it would have been a TD. The difference that many are not seeing is James was a receiver, and not a ball carrier in that moment.

What you leave out is that he consciously reached out the ball to break the plane which IS a football move. Once he did that and broke the plane ... touchdown.

[fansince'76]

What you leave out is that he consciously reached out the ball to break the plane which IS a football move. Once he did that and broke the plane ... touchdown.

Exactly. And as someone else pointed out, how, exactly, do you reach the ball out to begin with if you don't already have control of it?

I'm not getting over it. Bullshit call.

[SteelerFanInStl]

My guess is they ruled him a ball carrier after taking two steps and also palming the football. There was also no clear evidence in him losing possession of the ball. It moved a little, but it didn't spin and his hand stayed under the ball from what I could see. It just goes to show how hard a ref's job really is. Definitely a catch 22 in those situations, because one fan base is going to hate you.

He was bobbling the ball the whole time and then used the ground to control it. No catch.

[stillers4me]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...



942608092713406464

[SteelerFanInStl]

942608092713406464

Add the Jets game where the TD was taken away by the refs and you've got 8-6.

[fansince'76]

He was bobbling the ball the whole time and then used the ground to control it. No catch.

Nope. Watch from :52 to :57. That's control. Touchdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18GWrZLOpAA

[stillers4me]

And BTW, No Quick Hits thread today.

1. I have a massive head/chest cold and feel like crap.

2. I'm not over it. When they take 6 minutes to find some obscure rule they can twist to hand the Pats* the game the we clearly had won, I'm really, really not over it.

[tube517]

942570961718538240

Oh, but this isn't taunting. :coffee:

[SteelerFanInStl]

Nope. Watch from :52 to :57. That's control. Touchdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18GWrZLOpAA

I was obviously talking about the Seth Roberts "catch".

[fansince'76]

I was obviously talking about the Seth Roberts "catch".

Ah, see that now. Still waking up. My bad. :chuckle:

[SteelerFanInStl]

Ah, see that now. Still waking up. My bad. :chuckle:

Get some coffee!

[stillers4me]

Always, always involves the Pats* . It seems they create silly rules to pull put when it's convenient to hand NE a win. I know....conspiracy and all that. The fact is, the NFL brings it on themselves.

942623311045058560

[stillers4me]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...

942570961718538240

[Born2Steel]

Nope. Watch from :52 to :57. That's control. Touchdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18GWrZLOpAA

Yes, you are 100% correct. Had James taken even 1 step toward the goal line and lunged in, TD. BUT, and this is the important part, the fact that he immediately went to his knee without taking a step, and fell across the goal line, makes it a continuation of the catch. That is why it was ruled incomplete.

The eyes tell you it IS a catch and that is the frustrating part. It was caught, then carried over the goal line, should be a TD, by eye test. By rule the ball came out during the catch process. SUCKS, but what it is.

[fansince'76]

Yes, you are 100% correct. Had James taken even 1 step toward the goal line and lunged in, TD. BUT, and this is the important part, the fact that he immediately went to his knee without taking a step, and fell across the goal line, makes it a continuation of the catch. That is why it was ruled incomplete.

The eyes tell you it IS a catch and that is the frustrating part. It was caught, then carried over the goal line, should be a TD, by eye test. By rule the ball came out during the catch process. SUCKS, but what it is.

Maybe they should have measured whether he broke the plane with an index card...

[Born2Steel]

Maybe they should have measured whether he broke the plane with an index card...

Again, you're correct in everything you're saying. James did not COMPLETE the catch all the way to the ground, 'BY RULE'. That is the ONLY reason it was ruled incomplete. We all saw James make the catch and put the ball across the line. How he did that is why it matters that the ball moved when he hit the ground. There was a Bell play a few seasons ago where Bell's helmet was knocked off as he crossed the line. He continued to fall forward into the endzone. By rule, the play is over at the spot the helmet came off. It did not matter that his semi-conscious form naturally fell beyond the line, he was down by rule at the 1inch line. Some rules just don't work all the time, but they work most times. Last night and the Bell call are 2 examples of where they do not work.

[fansince'76]

Again, you're correct in everything you're saying. James did not COMPLETE the catch all the way to the ground, 'BY RULE'. That is the ONLY reason it was ruled incomplete. We all saw James make the catch and put the ball across the line. How he did that is why it matters that the ball moved when he hit the ground. There was a Bell play a few seasons ago where Bell's helmet was knocked off as he crossed the line. He continued to fall forward into the endzone. By rule, the play is over at the spot the helmet came off. It did not matter that his semi-conscious form naturally fell beyond the line, he was down by rule at the 1inch line. Some rules just don't work all the time, but they work most times. Last night and the Bell call are 2 examples of where they do not work.

Still don't accept that it wasn't a TD...

[stillers4me]

Maybe they should have measured whether he broke the plane with an index card...

Winner winner chicken dinner

[EzraTank]

942570961718538240

Oh, but this isn't taunting. :coffee:

I said that in the GDT. Should have been a 15 yard penalty on the kickoff. But that was a moot point because of Juju's catch and run.

[tube517]

Again, you're correct in everything you're saying. James did not COMPLETE the catch all the way to the ground, 'BY RULE'. That is the ONLY reason it was ruled incomplete. We all saw James make the catch and put the ball across the line. How he did that is why it matters that the ball moved when he hit the ground. There was a Bell play a few seasons ago where Bell's helmet was knocked off as he crossed the line. He continued to fall forward into the endzone. By rule, the play is over at the spot the helmet came off. It did not matter that his semi-conscious form naturally fell beyond the line, he was down by rule at the 1inch line. Some rules just don't work all the time, but they work most times. Last night and the Bell call are 2 examples of where they do not work.

You are right. The rule is the rule. It sucks but it is.

Thing is, they better have irrefutable evidence to overturn. That has always been the case. In this case, it wasn't there.

[fansince'76]

If it was that cut and dry, it wouldn't have taken 10 minutes for the review.

[Drazo85]

It was a TD. Rule or no rule. He went down on his knee, stretched, while stretching his elbow went down and broke the plane. After that he bobled it without clear evidence that the ball hit ground. TD! Plain and simple.

[Hawkman]

942570961718538240

Oh, but this isn't taunting. :coffee:

Damn totally missed that one

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Tony Dungy said it best. In every other level of football, flag football, youth football, highschool football, college football....that is a catch, but the NFL created the rule based on Calvin Johnson's catch several years ago and while its a terrible rule, its the rule.

Honestly, when the Steelers punted the ball away with over 2 minutes left, I knew the drive by Brady was coming, but the Steelers had chances to make plays, like Davis INT, Davis deny the 2 point convert and the secondary not giving up 3 successive passes to Gronkdudeski for 60 yards combined.

I've been a fan for over 35 years and love the Steelers, but my life didn't noticeably change when they won Super Bowls, nor did it change when they lost in '95 or 2011. Its football folks, enjoy it for what it is and move on to the upcoming week.

[86WARD]

Nope. Watch from :52 to :57. That's control. Touchdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18GWrZLOpAA

Last night I thought the rule was stupid. After watching this video today, the rule is still stupid, but that was as close to a catch as you could get. He caught the ball had clear control of it, pulled it in and then extended it across the goal line. That shouldn’t have been over turned.

[AtlantaDan]

Its football folks, enjoy it for what it is and move on to the upcoming week.

The Steelers better do so - losing the bye with AB needing recovery time becomes even more of a potential problem

[LLT]

It's hard to get over this loss, the Steelers WILL NOT beat the Pats in New England and for me this was a playoff game. 0 points put up in the 4th quarter against New England even with the absence of AB is inexcusable. I loath the way this team is coached

I actually think that we can beat The Pats in New England.

[Rotorhead]

We can argue this until we die (and probably will), but the fact that this and a number of other no calls or bad calls changed the outcome of this game is what is infuriating. The refs decided this game, not the play or the players. Call PI on the Rogers play and we kick the FG, call the offsides on the Def during the last play and we kick the FG, don't call the BS PI call on Gronk on the previous drive and we probably win, etc etc etc. On top of that, if we don't run it 2x on 1st and 20 with 4m left and get a 1st down, we probably win. I just hope AB will be back for the playoffs and this team will be healed up and pissed going into Gillette.

[Iron Steeler]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...

My Thought exactly

[fansince'76]

My Thought exactly


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXjqAzugiaY

Yep - no bobble there. :rolleyes:

[Mach1]

More proof the NFL is clueless clowns.


NFL contradicts itself in calling Steelers' overturned touchdown vs. Patriots incomplete

In explaining why Jesse James did not score the touchdown that he — and just about everyone watching Sunday's Steelers-Patriots game that saw the Steelers ultimately lose 27-24 — thought he scored, NFL senior vice president of officiating Al Riveron, in summation, explained that Roethlisberger's completed pass was incomplete.

Huh?

Try to keep up with this — or watch the video above if you're interested in inducing a headache.

We know the call on the field, originally a touchdown, was overturned, and the pass was ruled incomplete.

But here's how Riveron opens his explanation 12 seconds into his video.

"As we can see here, Roethlisberger completes a pass to James, and James is going to the ground as he reaches the goal line."

That's right, Al. That's what we all thought. That Roethlisberger completed a pass to James. So would you mind continuing with your instantly contradictory explanation that undoubtedly will cause only more confusion to the already-indeterminable "What's a catch?" problem in the NFL?

"By rule, to complete the process of the catch..."

You already said it was complete.

"... He must survive the ground."

He already fell to the ground with control.

“... And by that we mean he must maintain control of the football."

He did, which is why he was able to lunge for the goal line.

Go on, Al.

"As we see here, he does put the ball over the goal line extended."

So ... touchdown, right? You're making a good case for it.

"Once he gets there, he loses control of the football, and then the ball hits the ground — we can see here the ball touches the ground."

Sure, but he crossed the plane of the goal line, so no problem, right?

Sum it up for us, Al. Obviously this should've gone the Steelers' way.

"So therefore two things occur."

Right. A completed pass and crossing the goal line. Touchdown, yes?

"He loses control of the football, and the ball touches the ground prior to him regaining control. "Therefore the ruling on the field of a touchdown was changed to an incomplete pass."

So since the would-be touchdown was overturned, there obviously was conclusive evidence that James' hand was not underneath the ball, as the NFL sees it.
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/13087313-74/nfl-contradicts-itself-in-calling-steelers-overturned-touchdown-vs-patriots-incomplete?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Main&utm_source=Facebook

[Mojouw]

Good explanation here of why the rule says it wasn't a catch -- https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/12/18/16789482/winners-and-losers-week-15

"We’re often told a play is a touchdown the very instant the ball breaks the plane of the goal line, but not here: James was “going to the ground,” and therefore, had to control the ball through his initial contact with the turf to register a catch. Since the ball jostled and hit the ground when James’s arms crashed down, the pass was actually incomplete. James had control of the ball in the end zone, but because this wasn’t a catch, he never technically had possession."

More good stuff here -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/punitive-catch-rule-overdue-proper-revision/

"By the letter of the law, the officials appropriately applied the catch rule as it was written to the James play. I have seen some people dispute whether or not there was indisputable evidence that the football ever actually touched the ground, but this strikes me as a desperation, Hail Mary critique, as I find it hard to believe anybody actually believes the ball did not touch the ground."

Neither of these takes means that the rule isn't stupid. Neither means that the rule isn't inconsistently applied. But both point out that this call happens weekly in the NFL and is dumb. Everyone needs to also be mindful that the NFL seems to hold different rules for possession and a "football move" in the field of play and in the endzone/scoring plays. That combination of circumstances jobbed the Steelers last night. No doubt.

But everyone needs to realize that this is the way the game is called in 2017. It isn't some vast overarching conspiracy - it just feels that way today.

[tube517]

Tony Dungy said it best. In every other level of football, flag football, youth football, highschool football, college football....that is a catch, but the NFL created the rule based on Calvin Johnson's catch several years ago and while its a terrible rule, its the rule.

Honestly, when the Steelers punted the ball away with over 2 minutes left, I knew the drive by Brady was coming, but the Steelers had chances to make plays, like Davis INT, Davis deny the 2 point convert and the secondary not giving up 3 successive passes to Gronkdudeski for 60 yards combined.

I've been a fan for over 35 years and love the Steelers, but my life didn't noticeably change when they won Super Bowls, nor did it change when they lost in '95 or 2011. Its football folks, enjoy it for what it is and move on to the upcoming week.

Watching Juju get that long run was fun though. I think I woke the cat that hangs out on my back patio and naps. If Juju didn't have an injured hammy. Oh well.

[Rotorhead]

"We’re often told a play is a touchdown the very instant the ball breaks the plane of the goal line, but not here: James was “going to the ground,” and therefore, had to control the ball through his initial contact with the turf to register a catch. Since the ball jostled and hit the ground when James’s arms crashed down, the pass was actually incomplete. James had control of the ball in the end zone, but because this wasn’t a catch, he never technically had possession."

The key part of this comment is "control the ball through his initial contact with the turf", his knee was down, then his elbow, then the extension, so technically he had control through his initial contact with the turf (knee), and his secondary contact with the turf (elbow) and then across the goal line. I understand the argument, but it is still BS that was overturned.

[Method28]

My issue (besides the obvious) is what football is turning into. They went to a review and called back a td on those replays? Like cmon man, thats a freaking td. Its turning into a game of nitpicky calls and technicalities. Sad really.

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[NCSteeler]

I think he had it on his knees clear control. The lunge is a football move so he becomes a runner there. Fuck the NFL it is clear the NFL is not rigged BUT refs clearly give benefit to star players that they like.

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[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Watching Juju get that long run was fun though. I think I woke the cat that hangs out on my back patio and naps. If Juju didn't have an injured hammy. Oh well.

Yup, that was great. But even after DHB could not get out of bound and the slant to Eli Rodgers wasn't there, I would have thought the HOF QB would throw it away and look to let the Boz tie it up.

The whole notion of saying the call came from the sideline, but Ben wanted to clock it is just deflecting blame and accountability. Know the scenario, do the right thing and keep playing. I have enjoyed the decade of Ben and the multiple SB titles, but he has never been the thinking mans QB.

[NCSteeler]

That’s only if the player is a runner. Which he never was in this case. It is dumb confusing and wrongheaded but it has been fairly consistently screwing teams for a few years now.Definition of a runner is two feet down with control and a football move. One knee equals two feet. Clear possession and a lunge

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[Mojouw]

Definition of a runner is two feet down with control and a football move. One knee equals two feet. Clear possession and a lunge

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I feel like people think I'm agreeing with the NFL here. I'm not. I'm just trying to tell people what the actual rule is and where the over-turn is coming from.

Of course I agree and think it was a catch and then a lunge. So at WORST it should be completion and down at the one yard line.

But after watching a decent amount of NFL the last several seasons, I knew that was getting over-turned. Shit call. Shit rule. But it is what it is.

[Rotorhead]

I can't have an issue with that last play, 99 times out of 100 that is at worst an incomplete pass, Rogers had the inside position on the slant, the DB was all over him (on the uncalled PI) and it was a lucky tip to get it in the air. I would run that play every time (especially with AB) as it should have resulted in one more play for the FG.

[RunNGun]

He has to maintain possession through contact with the ground. Yes, his knee hit first, but since he was on his way to the ground and clearly lost possession of the ball, it's not a catch. The lunge was while he was going to the ground, which is why the football move is irrelevant in this scenario as well. It was all in the same motion if that makes sense. Tough one to stomach. Stupid rule. Right call.

[tube517]

If there is any doubt on the replay, it can't be overturned. That's been the rule forever. Have to have indisputable evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. Period.

[tube517]

942837257941258241

[Mojouw]

I mean all of this detective work and grammar parsing is cool and all, but what's the point?

Anyone think the NFL is going to see all the blazing hot social media posts and be like "Hey. Looks like we got this wrong. Let's go back, put that on the board as a TD and vacate the Pats win."

This is like when the NFL acknowledged that there were not 12 men on the field during the game Cowher stuffed a photo in the refs pocket. Or like the time they botched the coin flip in OT.

What would be the point? Game is over. It sucks, the rule is dumb, the NFL has known for years that there is a MASSIVE problem with the definition of a catch and they keep making it more and more confusing rather than simplified and clear. That would be the only "good" outcome from all this - a significant rule change.

[RunNGun]

I mean all of this detective work and grammar parsing is cool and all, but what's the point?

Anyone think the NFL is going to see all the blazing hot social media posts and be like "Hey. Looks like we got this wrong. Let's go back, put that on the board as a TD and vacate the Pats win."

This is like when the NFL acknowledged that there were not 12 men on the field during the game Cowher stuffed a photo in the refs pocket. Or like the time they botched the coin flip in OT.

What would be the point? Game is over. It sucks, the rule is dumb, the NFL has known for years that there is a MASSIVE problem with the definition of a catch and they keep making it more and more confusing rather than simplified and clear. That would be the only "good" outcome from all this - a significant rule change.

Agreed. Nothing can change the outcome of that game. Catch or no catch could be debated forever and there'd still be no right or wrong answer. The only solution is to eliminate instant replay on those types of plays. Don't give the fan something to bitch about. Eliminate the challenge, and let the refs call the game by the naked eye. I kinda miss those days TBH.

[Mojouw]

Agreed. Nothing can change the outcome of that game. Catch or no catch could be debated forever and there'd still be no right or wrong answer. The only solution is to eliminate instant replay on those types of plays. Don't give the fan something to bitch about. Eliminate the challenge, and let the refs call the game by the naked eye. I kinda miss those days TBH.

Then everyone would complain about NOT having replay in order to get the calls "correct" :doh:

[Hawkman]

Hey a reason to be hopeful. On the PGA tour, they have eliminated the armchair viewers ability to call in and make rulings on a player.

[touchdownward]

Just one question - if that were Gronk, think it still gets overturned? I know I have my doubts...That's been my thoughts since last night, if Brady throws that pass, it's a touchdown.
I'm not going to piss and moan about it, just moving onto next week. Too old to sweat shit I can't control. :heh:

[silver & black]

Maybe they should have measured whether he broke the plane with an index card...
I just knew that was coming sooner or later. I didn't think there was another bullsh*t way to get screwed, but they seem to find new ways to get the Raiders.

I find myself caring less and less about the NFL.... to the point where that was the only game I watched this year.... and I still don't care that we lost...lol.