Want to Get this Out Early Because No One Will Hear it Later

[Mojouw]

I remain unconvinced that "man coverage" is a simple one stop shopping solution for beating any NFL team, let alone the Patriots. The reasons are too many to list, but the primary one is that if you aren't any good at man coverage -- you might as well stick with something you are good at.

So watch/read this breakdown and weep at Sean Davis' inability to do his job on the play. If Flacco can hit the no-name WR he hit on the detailed play, what are Brady/Cooks/Gronk going to do against a secondary that continually demonstrates that while they may possess the physical ability to "man-up" with NFL receivers, they lack the mental discipline required to consistently execute complex single cover schemes as a unit. Or at the very least, Davis and Burns do!

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/film-room-steelers-blown-coverage-ravens-30-yard-touchdown/

http://www.steelersdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/moore-td-1.jpg

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

You can beat Brady playing zone but with a short zone. You can't beat him playing 10 yards off the wr's and te's and not respecting the rb's pass catching.

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What I'm saying regardless if it is man or zone. Got to pressure him quick and take away the dink & dunks.

[Mojouw]

You can beat Brady playing zone but with a short zone. You can't beat him playing 10 yards off the wr's and te's and not respecting the rb's pass catching.

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What I'm saying regardless if it is man or zone. Got to pressure him quick and take away the dink & dunks.
I can get behind that!

[steel striker]

Yeah to me you have to get pressure up the middle on Brady no matter if you play man or zone.

[DesertSteel]

All I know is the definition of insanity.

[steelreserve]

You don't beat him with straight-up "man coverage." I mean, you can if you're really good at it, but most teams aren't.

What you can do is play tight man coverage for about the first 2.5 seconds, DOUBLE THE TIGHT END IF A LINEBACKER IS PART OF YOUR PLAN THERE, and if nobody is open by then, you can hand off guys into more of a zone because you already have a huge advantage.

That's the ENTIRE key to defending against this cocksucker. The whole offense is based around someone being open immediately so he can choose to short-circuit your pass rush whenever he wants. You don't give him that freebie, he's very ordinary.

tl;dr - Just don't play 10 yards off the line and concede the quick pass, THAT'S what kills you.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

All I know is the definition of insanity. Yep if you do go zone it has to be different then the past.

[st33lersguy]

Play tighter, pressure up the middle. Beating this team is more than just utilizing a simple formula (otherwise, the Patriots wouldn't win so much), but it is an improvement and a step in the right direction

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Play tighter, pressure up the middle. Beating this team is more than just utilizing a simple formula (otherwise, the Patriots wouldn't win so much), but it is an improvement and a step in the right direction They win so much cause they been playing in the weakest division in the NFL for many years. Which almost gives them the best record each year for home field advantage. What they do good is have a good game plan and follow it to almost precision. That is to respected but still very beatable

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Ps My bad st33 I was talking about how they win each year and not how they win playing us.

[StillCurtains]

The key is middle pressure with only rushing 4. The pocket is Brady's sweet spot and he likes to climb in it to make his throws. He is neutralized when having to move laterally being wildly inaccurate with no escapability.

His game is based upon getting the ball out in 2 seconds or less. This is the reason why edge rushers have no affect on him. It's extremely difficult for edge rushers to get home on him even if playing man because of his quick release.
A rush up the middle won't always get home either, but it's the best way to defend him. You also need to mix your coverages to make him think.

You can play man or zone behind the middle pass rush, but you need to play your coverages tighter. Bumping his targets at the line of scrimmage is key. Man coverage isn't the only way to get this done. You can also play tight bump coverage in zone as well by bumping and covering within the first 5-10 yards and passing them off to a defender in the zone. What this does is takes away his first read while forcing him to hold onto the ball and go through his progressions while allowing the pass rush time to get home.

What needs to be scrapped is the 10-15 yard cushions. It doesn't allow the rush to get home at all and he will take those 10-15 yard throws the whole way down the field if you give it to him. I think that is the most frustrating thing to watch. When that is the scheme they run, we all know where the ball is going. I think it's disturbing that the Steelers are the only ones that don't seem to know.

So after all of that is said: Generate pressure up the middle somehow while playing tight bump coverage at the line of scrimmage whether it be in man or zone.

[GBMelBlount]

All I know is the definition of insanity.

Why do you keep saying that over and over. :wink02:

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Why do you keep saying that over and over. :wink02: Einstein is his hero ?

[teegre]

I’ve mentioned it.
I’ve posted it.
I’ve averred it.

Most analysts will will tell you that the single most important factor in defeating Brady is pressure up the middle.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I’ve mentioned it.
I’ve posted it.
I’ve averred it.

Most analysts will will tell you that the single most important factor in defeating Brady is pressure up the middle. yes best case but pressure from the sides help too. Key is take away his dink and dunk.

[teegre]

yes best case but pressure from the sides help too. Key is take away his dink and dunk.

I guess my point is that once Brady gets hit/feels pressure up the middle, he becomes rattled. Look at the final quarter of the Dolphins game: Brady wasn’t really getting hit, but he was rattled and threw bad passes.

Everything else obviously helps, but pressure up the middle is key.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I guess my point is that once Brady gets hit/feels pressure up the middle, he becomes rattled. Look at the final quarter of the Dolphins game: Brady wasn’t really getting hit, but he was rattled and threw bad passes.

Everything else obviously helps, but pressure up the middle is key. I caught the whole game while I was playing COD on my other TV. Pressure on the sides got to him too and made him go to the middle which resulted in a sack. Brady had some plays when he had all day after that. Was rattled because of that and was erratic throwing them!

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Point is any pressure on Brady is a good thing and makes him hurry his throws and rattles him.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I guess my point is that once Brady gets hit/feels pressure up the middle, he becomes rattled. Look at the final quarter of the Dolphins game: Brady wasn’t really getting hit, but he was rattled and threw bad passes.

Everything else obviously helps, but pressure up the middle is key. Yes pressure up the middle is preferred but any pressure helps and does rattle him.

[GBMelBlount]

I’ve mentioned it.
I’ve posted it.
I’ve averred it.

Most analysts will will tell you that the single most important factor in defeating Brady is pressure up the middle.

Indeed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I

[teegre]

Indeed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I


Which will lead to...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY&app=desktop

[Craic]

I keep noticing people saying to play the man coverage. Here's the problem with that: the run game. Our defense is still predicated on CBs protecting against the run. If you man up tight, we're going to be ran on all night. I want to see our CBs about 4 yards off. Enough to protect against the short game, but far enough away not to get locked up immediately.

[steelreserve]

I guess my point is that once Brady gets hit/feels pressure up the middle, he becomes rattled. Look at the final quarter of the Dolphins game: Brady wasn’t really getting hit, but he was rattled and threw bad passes.

Everything else obviously helps, but pressure up the middle is key.


I keep noticing people saying to play the man coverage. Here's the problem with that: the run game. Our defense is still predicated on CBs protecting against the run. If you man up tight, we're going to be ran on all night. I want to see our CBs about 4 yards off. Enough to protect against the short game, but far enough away not to get locked up immediately.

Seems like a healthy dose of Javon Hargrave is in order for this game. They're looking for an excuse to get him on the field, here it is. He does both of those things very well.

[pczach]

I've said it a million times before, but I'll say it again.

There is no one way to beat Brady. You can't just play man coverage, and you can't just rush the passer. The keys to beating Brady are to make him hold the ball longer, make him move off of his spot in the pocket, getting good pass rush(particularly up the middle), and disrupting the release of his receivers and affecting the timing of routes. You also want to get pressure with 4 or 5 rushers only.

It isn't enough to just play man coverage. You need to play "press man coverage". Putting a body in front of every receiver and disrupting their release from the LOS is key. It throws off the timing of the play, and causes Brady to find the receiver with his eyes and not throw to a spot based on timing that they practice a million times and he can do in his sleep. It also gives the pass rush more time to get to Brady for sacks, or to push the pocket into his face so he can't see the routes develop or have an impact on his throwing motion.

It's as simple as that. They can mix in zone, but they need to disguise who's dropping and who's coming with some different looks for this game than they have on tape. Brady is going to motion a receiver to determine man or zone coverage, but if they disguise it well enough, and not use zone exclusively.....it can work in spots.

What concerns me in this game is the loss of Shazier. His athleticism and speed in the middle of the field is a huge loss.

[pczach]

Seems like a healthy dose of Javon Hargrave is in order for this game. They're looking for an excuse to get him on the field, here it is. He does both of those things very well.

I would love to see more of Hargrave on the field in pure penetration mode. He is exactly what the defense needs in this matchup. Play Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave together more in this game, and play press man behind them while disguising the 4th or 5th rushers as much as possible. Hargrave's interior quickness and penetration is exactly what they need.

[slippy]

i think the only path to victory is to win a shootout. and i think that is very possible at home.

steelers D still does not match up well against the patsies. who's gonna take advantage of that third string RT? Dupree?? lol.

[Born2Steel]

Right now, the Pats are vulnerable to what we do. We get them at home and in primetime. I'm looking forward to this.

[Mojouw]

I've said it a million times before, but I'll say it again.

There is no one way to beat Brady. You can't just play man coverage, and you can't just rush the passer. The keys to beating Brady are to make him hold the ball longer, make him move off of his spot in the pocket, getting good pass rush(particularly up the middle), and disrupting the release of his receivers and affecting the timing of routes. You also want to get pressure with 4 or 5 rushers only.

It isn't enough to just play man coverage. You need to play "press man coverage". Putting a body in front of every receiver and disrupting their release from the LOS is key. It throws off the timing of the play, and causes Brady to find the receiver with his eyes and not throw to a spot based on timing that they practice a million times and he can do in his sleep. It also gives the pass rush more time to get to Brady for sacks, or to push the pocket into his face so he can't see the routes develop or have an impact on his throwing motion.

It's as simple as that. They can mix in zone, but they need to disguise who's dropping and who's coming with some different looks for this game than they have on tape. Brady is going to motion a receiver to determine man or zone coverage, but if they disguise it well enough, and not use zone exclusively.....it can work in spots.

What concerns me in this game is the loss of Shazier. His athleticism and speed in the middle of the field is a huge loss.

ALex K over at the Depot is kind of hitting on what I was getting at in this post - http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/keith-butler-spot-drops-steelers-lose/

It is no one thing, but it certainly isn't ONLY playing deep zones.

As I posted in another one of the 1,657 Pats/Steelers threads, Shazier'as absence will be the single largest contributing factor in the case of a Steelers loss.

[GBMelBlount]

Which will lead to...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY&app=desktop

Providing we have the right...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spm5-SXo4Do

[Steeldude]

The Steelers can't play zone either. It will be the usual sight. Brady will pass to wide open receivers all day. The Steelers will probably need to score 45 to win, IMO.

[teegre]

Providing we have the right...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spm5-SXo4Do

If so, we will see that...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE&app=desktop

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I’ve mentioned it.
I’ve posted it.
I’ve averred it.

Most analysts will will tell you that the single most important factor in defeating Brady is pressure up the middle.

This is common with most Non-mobile QB's. Get them off their spot and make them move to where they are uncomfortable. Its why the Geno Atkins, Aaron Donald type players are so important in the pass rush, where there are QB's that don't like to move.

[Mojouw]

I’m going to agree with others. I’m not sure it matters where the pressure comes from. Left, right, or center doesn’t matter. Just move Brady off his spot, change his passing lanes, and disrupt the timing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pczach]

ALex K over at the Depot is kind of hitting on what I was getting at in this post - http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/keith-butler-spot-drops-steelers-lose/

It is no one thing, but it certainly isn't ONLY playing deep zones.

As I posted in another one of the 1,657 Pats/Steelers threads, Shazier'as absence will be the single largest contributing factor in the case of a Steelers loss.



Yeah, I think he speaks for most of us in that article.

They can't just roll out the same simple zone scheme all day long against Brady. It hasn't worked and it won't work in this game. They have to make him as uncomfortable as possible. If he knows exactly what the defense is doing presnap and they play zone on every snap, it will be another disaster defensively.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I’m going to agree with others. I’m not sure it matters where the pressure comes from. Left, right, or center doesn’t matter. Just move Brady off his spot, change his passing lanes, and disrupt the timing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Suh was given Brady problems all game. Which caused Brady to run towards the middle and got sack by them.

[DesertSteel]

I'd say that when the Pats get down inside the 5 on first and goal to give Brady a good solid late hit that only costs us a couple of yards.