Can the Defense Develop Another Playmaker?

[Mojouw]

Based on the last 24 hours or so of news, I believe there is no way that Shazier plays again in 2017 and his football future remains in doubt. While I honestly believe that is the least important thing for Ryan and his family, it did get me thinking about where the 2017 Pittsburgh Steelers get some playmaking from.

5 turnovers, 68 tackles is nothing to sneeze at. Shazier was the one player on the defense that seemed to combine staggering athletic ability with elite recognition skills to regularly make offenses pay for mistakes.

I see many other players that could do that, but are not currently doing that for this defense.

Anyone wonder who steps it up? I got Sean Davis as the guy who emerges to make plays down the middle of the defense.

[Hawkman]

Davis is a good one. I like Hilton. He’s almost as fearless as Shazier.

[Neversatisfied]

The injury to Shazier completely changes the Steelers upcoming draft plans.

[Mojouw]

Both of the above are good points.

It may fundamentally alter the defense. Shazier's skill-set was so unique that I'm not certain Butler won't have to do a "re-think" for this season and beyond.

[st33lersguy]

Very hard to replace Shazier, his loss will hurt

[Hawkman]

Both of the above are good points.

It may fundamentally alter the defense. Shazier's skill-set was so unique that I'm not certain Butler won't have to do a "re-think" for this season and beyond.

True.....Shazier has the field “generalship” of Farrior and the athleticism of Troy. Tough combination to replace.

I think we will be fine with Williams calling the defense, he has a high football IQ, but like you said, guys are going to have step up to fill that, “playmaking” void.

[DesertSteel]

For this year, I think the best compensation for the absence of Shazier is to get Haden back to shore up the secondary. If so, I think we can win it all. Without both, it's gonna be a tough road to hoe. Last year Cam went down and the D actually improved so who knows what happens and who steps up.

As for the one guy who can do more in this situation, I'm going to go with Gravedigger in the middle.

[Psycho Ward 86]

get our best 11 on the field without over compromising match up problems. Not sure if that means using more 2-4-5 or 3-3-5 nickel, that would make for an interesting discussion. But it does means more Deebo and less Dupree. That means we still need to find a way to give Tuitt/Heyward a breather by giving Hargrave more snaps (those 2 are still regularly registering the same alarming percentage of snaps as past seasons that caused them to get gassed/more susceptible to injury. Heyward essentially said so himself. Strangely enough thats been talked about a lot last season but not this season).

Davis needs to come down and play closer to the line of scrimmage more frequently than usual and inherit some of Shazier's coverage responsibilities. That means Mitchell better be on his ass when he's playing single high and lord knows that wont look pretty against above average QB's.

At the end of the day I dont think anyone on our defense (not even cumulatively) will reach that transcendent level of playmaking that we need to compensate for Shazier. Our offense needs to play to at least 80% of its potential. Then its game on against anybody. And i mean anybody

[ALLD]

LB & CB are priority and that's if Ben returns. I give that 50/50 at best.

[GBMelBlount]

LB & CB are priority and that's if Ben returns. I give that 50/50 at best.

So we draft a LB, CB next year.

We still have less needs than 80% - 90% of the teams out there and CAN still win it all.

The team with the best season in the histroy of the NFL, had a "no name" defense.

[Psycho Ward 86]

LB & CB are priority and that's if Ben returns. I give that 50/50 at best.

Is CB a priority? I expect Joe Haden back, Mike Hilton has the slot secured. Artie Burns has another year of seasoning on the outside, and Cam Sutton is a really fast learner who will be at the ready if Burns cant handle it. I like this safety class and Mitchell just isnt getting it done + has no viable replacement behind him

[RunNGun]

CB is not a need right now. I could see one in the 3rd or 4tg, but no sooner. Assuming Shazier has played his last down:uhoh: IMO, we go ILB or TE in rd1.

[SteelMayhem72]

LB, Safety, TE are the most pressing concerns that we need. If Ben retires we will need to draft another QB cause I'm not sure Dobbs will be the eventual replacement even though he is more athletic than Jones. It's gonna be impossible to plug and play with the same intensity and skill set as shazier was. Just not gonna happen. I do think we are gonna see more blitzing to rush the passer into making quicker decisions to offset the lack of coverage skills of our linebackers. Watt is ok but the others, not so much.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[st33lersguy]

Super Bowl chances took a hit, and now Haden needs to play at the level he was at earlier this season and the team can't afford another star player to sit out a playoff game otherwise the team is in serious trouble

[SteelMayhem72]

Super Bowl chances took a hit, and now Haden needs to play at the level he was at earlier this season and the team can't afford another star player to sit out a playoff game otherwise the team is in serious troubleWe are always snake bitten right before playoff time, seems to always be the result of playing the Bengals.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[Psycho Ward 86]

We are always snake bitten right before playoff time, seems to always be the result of playing the Bengals.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

damn you aint kidding. Bell (Iloka), Bell again (Burfict), Ben (Burfict), Brown (Burfict), Shazier (from his own tackle)

[AtlantaDan]

LB & CB are priority and that's if Ben returns. I give that 50/50 at best.

Agreed both in terms of defensive priorities and Ben - what happened to Ryan Shazier appears to have shaken all of the Steelers in a way the typical blown out ACL would not

My guess is players across the league are having discussions with their families about how random the event was with such devastating consequences along with running the numbers on when/whether they can afford to get out

Ben has the $$ and already has spoken about wanting to be as healthy as possible when he leaves

Lots of issues after the shock wears off

[Mojouw]

Man. You all are killing it in this thread. Lots of great conversation and interesting ideas. I'm interested to see if Butler tweaks things. This is when we will really see what we have at DC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stillers4me]

The injury to Shazier completely changes the Steelers upcoming draft plans.

I woke up this morning thinking this myself.

Here we are, picking from the bottom of the heap again (that whole pros/cons thing), desperately needing to address the teams future at QB and likely losing a productive 1st rounder on defense after years of draft picks heavy on D.

At least we're not the Browns.

[GBMelBlount]

Man. You all are killing it in this thread. Lots of great conversation and interesting ideas.

I'm interested to see if Butler tweaks things. This is when we will really see what we have at DC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My thoughts Exactly.

[stillers4me]

We are always snake bitten right before playoff time, seems to always be the result of playing the Bengals.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

That's because their focus is on ruining our season instead succeeding in their own.

[tube517]

Some things I think about:

Vince Williams will be on a mission. Shazier is his buddy and will be emotionally on fire. I'm hoping performances like the KC game last year.

Heyward is the Captain and will be even more motivated.

TJ Watt and Sean Davis will need to step up their game. These 2 will likely be in the "rover" role that Butler/LeBeau like to use.

We need need need Haden back for the playoffs. Hopefully sooner.

Lastly, do not count out that 39 year old dude. I don't think we've seen the last of him. I want to see him pissed and knocking LT's to their knees.

[DesertSteel]

I think that the whole D gets inspired and plays lights out to honor Shazier.

[AtlantaDan]

I think that the whole D gets inspired and plays lights out to honor Shazier.

The whole team hopefully will be inspired - time for the offense to carry the load and play complete games rather than the defense keeping it close while the offense shows up in the 4th quarter

If ever there was a time for Ben to be the team leader he wants to be and have his finest hour this is it

[86WARD]

Losing Shazier in the past isn’t as devastating as it is this seas n because you had Timmons. Losing both Timmons and Shazier May be something this team can’t recover from...

[Born2Steel]

Rd1: BPA
Rd2: BPA at position of need
Rd3: same as 2 and so on.

As for the remainder of THIS season...
We have to assume it will be without Shazier. As for the future, wait, be patient, and we will LEARN about how Shazier is rehabbing. This team has other talented players that will continue and finish this season.

As for this thread...
I still like the capability of the defensive front 7. Obviously we brought in Spence because losing Shazier is a huge blow. VW still has his role and he will be fine. I like the idea of letting Watt roam and line up where it gives him the bigger advantage. I think we see more Harrison on passing downs. Our secondary is playing better than in recent history, and when Haden returns, it only gets better. Davis or Mitchell may need to become a more 'in the box' safety on early downs. This is a big injury for this defense, no doubt. But for this defense, it is not a season ending type of thing.

[Fire Goodell]

When Haden comes back, this secondary can be scary good. Artie Burns, as much criticism as he's gotten, still is on his way to reaching his ceiling. Hilton has been solid in the slot, and Sutton looks like he's also solid. That's 4 corners playing at a high level, and as long as the front 7 can stop the run, I think this secondary could be one capable of shutting down Brady like how the jets did back in 2010. William Gay is also a solid dime CB / Safety hybrid with a lot of big game experience.

The 2nd half performance against the Bengals did show that even without Shazier, this defense can play at a very high level still, which is comforting.

[Hawkman]

Losing Shazier in the past isn’t as devastating as it is this seas n because you had Timmons. Losing both Timmons and Shazier May be something this team can’t recover from...

Not really sure that Williams the way he's playing this year is a drop off from Timmons last year.....possibly an upgrade.

[Fire Goodell]

Not really sure that Williams the way he's playing this year is a drop off from Timmons last year.....possibly an upgrade.

I agree, Vince has been nearly lights out this year.

[43Hitman]

Not really sure that Williams the way he's playing this year is a drop off from Timmons last year.....possibly an upgrade.


I agree, Vince has been nearly lights out this year.

I said early on this season, maybe even preseason, when a lot of people were freaking out over the loss of Timmons to free agency that they would be pleasantly surprised at how well VW would do. I'm just glad I was correct, because he has been playing very well this year.


Yep it was in May of this year when we had the discussion.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/27040-Post-Draft-Which-Position-Group-Remains-The-Weakest?

[Hawkman]

I said early on this season, maybe even preseason, when a lot of people were freaking out over the loss of Timmons to free agency that they would be pleasantly surprised at how well VW would do. I'm just glad I was correct, because he has been playing very well this year.


Yep it was in May of this year when we had the discussion.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/27040-Post-Draft-Which-Position-Group-Remains-The-Weakest?

And the the man knows how to tackle.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I said early on this season, maybe even preseason, when a lot of people were freaking out over the loss of Timmons to free agency that they would be pleasantly surprised at how well VW would do. I'm just glad I was correct, because he has been playing very well this year.


Yep it was in May of this year when we had the discussion.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/27040-Post-Draft-Which-Position-Group-Remains-The-Weakest?

i was pretty excited to see him finally get his shot in the offseason but those first few slow games had me a little worried (The Timmons curse perhaps? :lol:). boy was i wrong. this guy is pure hustle

[st33lersguy]

VW is great at getting sacks and tackles, how is he in coverage? I haven't paid much attention to him in coverage

[teegre]

Losing Shazier sucks. He’s not going to be replaced by anyone.

Sure, Watt and Davis could be the next big thing, but they’d be great regardless of who plays ILB. Simply, I’d rather have them AND Shazier (but, he’s not coming back... a void which will not be easily filled any time soon).

[Hawkman]

Losing Shazier sucks. He’s not going to be replaced by anyone.

Sure, Watt and Davis could be the next big thing, but they’d be great regardless of who plays ILB. Simply, I’d rather have them AND Shazier (but, he’s not coming back... a void which will not be easily filled any time soon).

AND........?

[teegre]

AND........?

And... the Steelers always find a new playmaker. It’s what they do. Watt, Heyward, Davis, Tuitt, et cetera.

And... even if they draft a guy at ILB who’s just as good, it uses a draft pick that could be used on a S or TE.

SUMMATION:
This loss, this void hurts.

[pczach]

And... the Steelers always find a new playmaker. It’s what they do. Watt, Heyward, Davis, Tuitt, et cetera.

And... even if they draft a guy at ILB who’s just as good, it uses a draft pick that could be used on a S or TE.

SUMMATION:
This loss, this void hurts.


No question.

He is an elite talent and athlete. You are correct. They were going to use this upcoming draft to build on top of the talent already on the roster. This gives them another hole to fill if Ryan is no longer able to play or better yet...chooses not to.

This isn't something that is insurmountable. It just makes it more difficult.

[DesertSteel]

The loss hurts but once you accept involuntary attrition as a normal part of the game you learn not to dwell on it.

The main thing is Ryan's personal well-being.

[cubanstogie]

The loss hurts but once you accept involuntary attrition as a normal part of the game you learn not to dwell on it.

The main thing is Ryan's personal well-being.
very true. Its not like this is the first time they go without him either. Don't want to sound cold hearted and like Im already moving on but honestly ever since he went down I thought he was done and just want him to walk again and have a family. No doubt he will be missed on field and locker room. Since Ryan arrived it does seem Ravens TE's and check downs to RB's has decreased. flacco and Pitta , Ray Rice and whoever was back there used to kill us.No coincidence Im sure. Patriots a little different their WR's picked us apart. No way around it, this sucks. But this team still talented enough to win it all. IMO it all comes down to the secondary. Haden will be huge boost.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

i was pretty excited to see him finally get his shot in the offseason but those first few slow games had me a little worried (The Timmons curse perhaps? :lol:). boy was i wrong. this guy is pure hustle

I agree. I liked Williams from the day he blew up a pulling guard in the Senior Bowl, but he went MIA for a few games this season, which had me a bit concerned. I always thought he and Spence would be the LB tandem when drafted, but we know how that turned out.

I believe in the guys they have, but nobody is really as athletic of a LB as Shazier.