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DesertSteel
11-29-2017, 01:37 PM
What does everyone think about the notion that Bell has lost a step? This keeps coming up and the stats seem to bear it out. Although he leads the NFL in yards, he only has two runs of longer than 20 yards. No one else in the top 10 has that few. Even L. Blount has seven.

And......... if Bell has lost a step, how does that play out for a long term deal as he goes into his sixth year? Is it a warning sign of things to come?

polamalubeast
11-29-2017, 01:44 PM
He had a great game against the Packers....12 catchs with more that 80 yards after the catch and 20 run for 95 yards....The answers is no....

And if the steelers use a lot of the passing game as in the last two games, it will help Bell.

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DesertSteel
11-29-2017, 01:50 PM
He had a great game so he hasn’t lost a step? Ok....

Born2Steel
11-29-2017, 01:51 PM
He found it. It's not lost anymore.

polamalubeast
11-29-2017, 01:54 PM
He had a great game so he hasn’t lost a step? Ok....

Each player can have a period that you are worse than other times, it does not mean that the player has lost a step.....Will we ask each time a player plays less well if he lost a step?

I mean, it was the same thing with Ben early this year ...

DesertSteel
11-29-2017, 01:56 PM
Each player can have a period that you are worse than other times, it does not mean that the player has lost a step.....Will we ask each time a player plays less well if he lost a step?

I mean, it was the same thing with Ben early this year ...
Seems that you are missing the whole point of my question. My question isn’t is he playing well. My question is has he lost the ability to break off long runs. So if he hasn’t, please point me to the data or give me the extenuating circumstance that is preventing it.

tube517
11-29-2017, 02:06 PM
He's working hard for that 12 million.

252 carries (23 carries/game) Tops in the league. Closest guy is Todd Gurley at 204 carries. Zeke probably would have been closer if not for the suspension.

61 receptions (#11 overall)

Best blocking back, arguably, in the NFL.

Bell has never been a burner and yeah his per carry avg is down. I see him tired sometimes but I don't see him slowing down yet.

I have never seen him break long runs over 30 too often. His longest run is 48 yards, not exactly that great.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-29-2017, 02:13 PM
You should have posted Bell Sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Trust me you would get more replies.

Born2Steel
11-29-2017, 02:19 PM
Bell has never been the long run breaker. The reason he doesn't do it now is because he never did, and now that he does consistently get 5-6 yards, defenses have a guy for that.

BTW, the thread title is a bit off-putting by itself.

DesertSteel
11-29-2017, 02:29 PM
You should have posted Bell Sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Trust me you would get more replies.
Haha... I'm happy with Bell, but also keeping an eye to the future and a little concerned about workload and injuries taking a toll.

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Bell has never been the long run breaker. The reason he doesn't do it now is because he never did, and now that he does consistently get 5-6 yards, defenses have a guy for that.

BTW, the thread title is a bit off-putting by itself.
It's not a statement but a question (?). I'm not the first one to ask it. Several of the beat writers have thrown it out there in chats as well. It's a valid question.

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There's this mentality around here that you are only allowed to ask questions about players right after a bad game - that it's sacrilegious to ask one after a good game. I don't subscribe to that notion.

Mojouw
11-29-2017, 02:30 PM
Bell's workload is ludicrous and the Steelers are going to burn him out. He isn't there yet, but it seems goofy to think that Bell would be able to sustain a workload that NO OTHER RB has ever survived.

DesertSteel
11-29-2017, 02:31 PM
Bell's workload is ludicrous and the Steelers are going to burn him out. He isn't there yet, but it seems goofy to think that Bell would be able to sustain a workload that NO OTHER RB has ever survived.
I don't think they're concerned about his long-term - i.e., how he does for his next team.

Mojouw
11-29-2017, 02:39 PM
I don't think they're concerned about his long-term - i.e., how he does for his next team.

The historical trends say that the "long-term" is literally any carry at this point. I think the magic # is 350 touches or something like that.

I go back and forth on whether or not Bell is getting too big a workload. I have looked at it before and been like "Nope - it is fine and in line with other backs like Forte and McCoy". I have looked at it and been like "They are going to destroy him like some sort of modern day Eddie George."

While, I don't know the cause -- the run game is not explosive this year as much as past seasons. Maybe a result of the struggles on offense as a whole? I guess see where things are at later in the year?

AtlantaDan
11-29-2017, 02:43 PM
Seems that you are missing the whole point of my question. My question isn’t is he playing well. My question is has he lost the ability to break off long runs. So if he hasn’t, please point me to the data or give me the extenuating circumstance that is preventing it.

I have been considering the same point you have for several weeks, notably after some of the wide runs that lost yardage in the Colts game.

As you note, P-G reporter Ray Fittipaldo has been saying Bell has lost a step for several weeks, with regard to breaking runs and getting to the edge. The latest comment was in his chat after the Packers game

In your opinion, does Bell look slow? I don't understand the reluctance to use Connor... How is his pass protection?
Ray Fittipaldo: I think the pass pro is a big issue with Conner. And yes, Bell appears to have lost a half step. Maybe we shouldn't be surprised with all the hits he's taken over the years. Still, what did he have Sunday night? Almost 200 scrimmage yards? He's still pretty darn good.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/27/Ray-Fittipaldo-Steelers-chat-11-27-17/stories/201711270111

Bouchette appears to agree, although Ed B. also thinks defenses may have adapted to Bell's hesitation style of waiting for the hole to develop. This from Bouchette's chat yesterday.

What is your opinion on Bell's running? I feel he has lost a step and defenses have adjusted and are now stopping his once effective hesitation running style. I know he leads the league in rushing yards, but what I watch on Sunday's does not look like the Bell of previous years. Even in the passing game he seems less dynamic and really hasn't broken off many big splash plays. Thoughts?
Ed Bouchette: I agree with you on many points. I do think defenses are defending him a little different. A few more doses of James Conner might help that. When a runner shows he's always going to be patient, a defense can show its patience as well.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/28/ed-bouchette-chat-steelers-11-28-17/stories/201711280089

Bell never had elite breakaway speed. IMO you franchise him again in 2018 then say goodbye - may not be lot of tread left on the tires.

For the rest of the season I bet you see him split out as a receiver more. Very few LBs can cover Bell as a receiver rather than a checkdown coming out of the backfield.

steel striker
11-29-2017, 03:11 PM
Bell's workload is ludicrous and the Steelers are going to burn him out. He isn't there yet, but it seems goofy to think that Bell would be able to sustain a workload that NO OTHER RB has ever survived.
That's what I'm worried about they are going to burn him out and, Connor gets very few carries. Much like the end of last year and, I really think the games with the Bills & KC was the end game. I know he got hurt in the KC playoff game. Hopefully I'm wrong.

tube517
11-29-2017, 03:15 PM
For the rest of the season I bet you see him split out as a receiver more. Very few LBs can cover Bell as a receiver rather than a checkdown coming out of the backfield.


He bailed Ben out alot on 3rd downs vs the Packers. If McDonald can come back and make some catches along w/Juju, that may help Bell out.

Craic
11-29-2017, 03:21 PM
I say no, and no for three reasons. First, watch him in space. When he catches the ball in space, he looks just like he used to. That means it isn't a physical issue. Second, he never had break-away speed—that top gear that allows him to break long runs like Willie P. or Mendy or even Bettis in his early years had. Third, in the previous years teams had to account more for the pass game. Even with the problems at WR last year, Ben was a whole lot more solid than he was the first half of this year. That means teams get to focus more on stopping the run this year. Finally, as others have said, Bell has now been in the league several years and his running style is not a surprise to anyone. Defenses can scheme for it, and they do.

86WARD
11-29-2017, 03:28 PM
No. He was slow to start but no...he hasn’t lost a step.

Where do you see he’s lost a step?

ALLD
11-29-2017, 03:34 PM
That fumble vs. the Pack meant he was tired. If we could put away some teams by the 3rd quarter we could let Conner close out the game, but we have needed Bell on the field for almost every down. They should give him a 3-yr. contract and pay him.

AtlantaDan
11-29-2017, 03:39 PM
No. He was slow to start but no...he hasn’t lost a step.

Where do you see he’s lost a step?

P-G reporters have been on this topic for several weeks.

In addition to his comments after the Packers game, P-G reporter Fittipaldo had this observation in his chat after the Colts game.

Ray Fittipaldo: I'm not totally down on Bell. I just think Conner's ability to gain the edge is not something Bell can do at the moment. Looks like he's lost a step.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/13/Ray-Fittipaldo-Steelers-chat-11-13-17/stories/201711130085

It seems as if a lot of the wide runs to the right have been getting stuffed. That might be a function of Gilbert being MIA much of the season but Gilbert played the Colts game where I noticed Bell not being able to turn the corner. I certainly am not seeing performances like the 2016 Buffalo and Chiefs playoff games from Bell in terms of longer runs.

Because of Conner's pass blocking problems apparently keeping him off the field I fear Bell running out of gas before mid-January.

43Hitman
11-29-2017, 03:39 PM
That fumble vs. the Pack meant he was tired. If we could put away some teams by the 3rd quarter we could let Conner close out the game, but we have needed Bell on the field for almost every down. They should give him a 3-yr. contract and pay him.

Are you sure? I mean he still played very well the rest of the game. That fumble was more than likely the product of a good defensive play. Why is it that when the Steelers do something bad its because they suck, when in all reality the other team just made a good play. I don't get it.

Mojouw
11-29-2017, 03:57 PM
P-G reporters have been on this topic for several weeks.

In addition to his comments after the Packers game, P-G reporter Fittipaldo had this observation in his chat after the Colts game.

Ray Fittipaldo: I'm not totally down on Bell. I just think Conner's ability to gain the edge is not something Bell can do at the moment. Looks like he's lost a step.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/13/Ray-Fittipaldo-Steelers-chat-11-13-17/stories/201711130085

It seems as if a lot of the wide runs to the right have been getting stuffed. That might be a function of Gilbert being MIA much of the season but Gilbert played the Colts game where I noticed Bell not being able to turn the corner. I certainly am not seeing performances like the 2016 Buffalo and Chiefs playoff games from Bell in terms of longer runs.

Because of Conner's pass blocking problems apparently keeping him off the field I fear Bell running out of gas before mid-January.

Don't forget that you have Jesse "I can't Lead Block to Save my Life" James out there "leading" some of those failed runs.

GBMelBlount
11-29-2017, 03:58 PM
Bell has averaged close to 5 ypc the last 3 years.

This year he is under 4 ypc.

Regardless, I hope they don't run his wheels off before the playoffs.

Perhaps throttle him back except when necessary (NE & playoffs)?

AtlantaDan
11-29-2017, 04:24 PM
Don't forget that you have Jesse "I can't Lead Block to Save my Life" James out there "leading" some of those failed runs.

True that - but Jesse "The Matador" James was doing his thing last season too

Born2Steel
11-29-2017, 04:31 PM
Bell has never been a break away runner though. Are we asking if he's slower to get those 4-6 yards per carry now? I never thought to time him, but maybe? If we are asking if he's getting too much of the workload, then would have to ask him. He seems to be doing just fine to me.

Mojouw
11-29-2017, 04:34 PM
True that - but Jesse "The Matador" James was doing his thing last season too

That is a good point. I was just throwing it out as a potential explanation.

AtlantaDan
11-29-2017, 04:43 PM
Bell has averaged close to 5 ypc the last 3 years.

This year he is under 4 ypc.

Regardless, I hope they don't run his wheels off before the playoffs.

Perhaps throttle him back except when necessary (NE & playoffs)?

Or do this

Roethlisberger can do something Monday night in Cincinnati that he hasn’t done at any point during his 14-year career. If Roethlisberger attempts 40 passes, it will be the first time in his career that he’s attempted 40 passes or more in three consecutive games.

Roethlisberger has attempted 45 passes in each of the past two games, against the Titans and Packers. According to Pro Football Focus, in the past month the Steelers have been the NFL’s most pass-heavy team in neutral game scripts, which means in games that are within one score.

The Steelers have been passing 67.6 percent of the time when it’s a one-score game, an even higher percentage than the Patriots (65.6) during the same span. The slanted pass-run ratio stands in stark contrast to the formula the Steelers used during their long winning streak last season when Bell carried the load. Now it’s Roethlisberger as the focal point of the offense.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/29/Ben-Roethlisberger-fantasy-football-passing-plays-todd-haley-LeVeon-Bell-scoring/stories/201711290190
(http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/29/Ben-Roethlisberger-fantasy-football-passing-plays-todd-haley-LeVeon-Bell-scoring/stories/201711290190)

JayC
11-29-2017, 05:07 PM
he looks bigger than before. i thought he was better when he was thinner looking 1-2 years ago. but his stats are still super good.

LambertsLunatic
11-29-2017, 05:25 PM
Stop, please...just stop. I don't know if he'll be here next year or not, but without him this year we wouldn't be where we're at.

LambertsLunatic

AtlantaDan
11-29-2017, 05:35 PM
Stop, please...just stop. I don't know if he'll be here next year or not, but without him this year we wouldn't be where we're at.

LambertsLunatic

All things considered I prefer a thread on whether the league leading rusher on a 9-2 team may have lost a step to being like Giants fans and having to debate whether it was right to bench Ben for Landry Jones while preparing for Dobbs to then get some starts later in the season :rolleyes:

Hawkman
11-29-2017, 05:41 PM
The historical trends say that the "long-term" is literally any carry at this point. I think the magic # is 350 touches or something like that.

I go back and forth on whether or not Bell is getting too big a workload. I have looked at it before and been like "Nope - it is fine and in line with other backs like Forte and McCoy". I have looked at it and been like "They are going to destroy him like some sort of modern day Eddie George."

While, I don't know the cause -- the run game is not explosive this year as much as past seasons. Maybe a result of the struggles on offense as a whole? I guess see where things are at later in the year?

You also have to look at some of the run defenses we have played against. Even the Browns are up there in stopping the run.

I was loving the yardage after contact he was getting. He bulled ahead on one play where he dragged three guys with him for five more yards. Very little of his hesitation step on Sunday. I was loving it.

DesertSteel
11-29-2017, 07:41 PM
If he had the one run of 25-35 yards every game could you imagine his numbers?! I'm happy but would love to see him bust a couple.

steelreserve
11-29-2017, 07:52 PM
His average is down because he was incompetent for the first month of the season due to his "holdout" that was actually more like just an infantile shitfit. So that's a third of the games so far. After that, he's looked like he normally does.

I don't buy the workload argument. At this point I think he's sat out roughly a third of the games in his career and he's played one full season from wire to wire. Short term, long term, he's not closer to wearing out than any other RB.

I do think, however, that when he does fall off one day, he'll fall off fast, due to the nature of his game which is exploiting timing windows too short for other people to do. Losing even a small amount of quickness/reaction time will render that completely ineffective, and no telling when that happens. I think we got a nice little preview of what that'll be like in the first few games this year.

Psycho Ward 86
11-29-2017, 08:24 PM
"Ed Bouchette: I agree with you on many points. I do think defenses are defending him a little different. A few more doses of James Conner might help that. When a runner shows he's always going to be patient, a defense can show its patience as well."

This right here. This is key, along with the volume of touches Bell is absorbing right now. This offensive line has shown the past few years that it can often impose its will in the run game. Give Connor SOMETHING to give Bell a breather and throw a wrench at defenders. Ok ok, so Connor is still working on his pass pro, but that doesnt mean Bell should be sent on a death march. If not to protect him for the next few years from completely dropping off a cliff, how about at least preserving him this season? I dont think anyone would argue that our superbowl aspirations are dead if Bell isnt playing anymore. 2 RB sets? Thats one solution. This had been discussed by the coaching staff back when Deangelo was here.

All I know is Bell getting some snaps without the ball in his hands will probably make him more efficient anyways and will give us the best opportunity to be successful down the stretch. How in the hell people manage to take Bell's health for granted is beyond me. Theres a pattern here and everyone kind of seems to shrug their shoulders and go "eh, that was just an unfortunate health aberrant." Bell hasnt been able to play every game in a season for us yet, why would this season be any different when Bell is pacing around 400 touches?

2013: Lisfranc injury for the first few games
2014: Hurray! He played started the entire regular season...missed our wildcard playoff game and we proceeded to rush for 43 yards (oh yeah, and we started a practice squad RB and signed Ben Tate off the street) on our way to losing at home by multiple scores to a much weaker Ravens team
2015: Damn near beat the Superbowl champ Broncos in their house, except Frenchy was starting and also fumbled on a promising scoring drive
2016: Immediately injured against the Patriots who proceeded to pin their ears back the rest of the game

We would have moved on in the playoffs in 2014, beat the Broncos in 2015, and at least challenged the Patriots in 2016 if Bell were healthy. Time to take Bell's health seriously.

But omg, Bell is so talented, and conditioned, and Connor isnt as good of a blocker/receiver. Well guess what, were most likely going to have Connor handling all the touches in the backfield anyways if we keep going at the pace that we are.

Count Steeler
11-30-2017, 06:38 AM
1) No preseason, so he got off to a slow start
2) Gilbert has been injured and/or suspended
3) No blocking TE
4) Offensive woes for the 1st half of the season
5) Offensive line was sub par for the first 5 or 6 games.
6) Bell has never had the turbo level.
7) Defenses adapt, something we can exploit by putting Connor in more and saving Bell for the playoffs.

I'll stop at 7, because 7 would be a good theme number for the Steelers this year.

Craic
11-30-2017, 08:09 PM
If he had the one run of 25-35 yards every game could you imagine his numbers?! I'm happy but would love to see him bust a couple.


Yeah, but those don't count.




:chuckle: Sorry, couldn't resist.

GBMelBlount
11-30-2017, 08:14 PM
1) No preseason, so he got off to a slow start
2) Gilbert has been injured and/or suspended
3) No blocking TE
4) Offensive woes for the 1st half of the season
5) Offensive line was sub par for the first 5 or 6 games.
6) Bell has never had the turbo level.
7) Defenses adapt, something we can exploit by putting Connor in more and saving Bell for the playoffs.

I'll stop at 7, because 7 would be a good theme number for the Steelers this year.

I totally agree with strategically playing Conner more.

steelreserve
12-01-2017, 02:10 PM
Yeah, but those don't count.




:chuckle: Sorry, couldn't resist.

Shut UP, Willie! We know it's you.

Craic
12-01-2017, 03:00 PM
Shut UP, Willie! We know it's you.

:lol: Could you imagine if Bell had Willie P.'s speed as well?

pczach
12-03-2017, 08:00 AM
:lol: Could you imagine if Bell had Willie P.'s speed as well?


He would unquestionably be the greatest RB in NFL history........and they'd be adding to the trophy case that Mike Tomlin walks by every day not full of "rushing titles". Tomlin would be very proud.....Willie would be jealous. :chuckle:

tube517
12-03-2017, 12:32 PM
He would unquestionably be the greatest RB in NFL history........and they'd be adding to the trophy case that Mike Tomlin walks by every day not full of "rushing titles". Tomlin would be very proud.....Willie would be jealous. :chuckle:

:tomlinism: :chuckle: