Mike Tomlin: “We should win it all”

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mike Tomlin: “We should win it all”

Mike Florio,ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports

Many believe that the Steelers are legitimate Super Bowl contenders, the current status of Sunday night’s game against the Packers notwithstanding. One person who believes it, and who isn’t bashful about saying it, is Steelers coach Mike Tomlin.

“Oh, we can win it all,” Tomlin told Tony Dungy of NBC’s Football Night in America. “We should win it all. I think that’s my mentality. I think that’s their mentality. But I’m less concerned about that and more concerned about what are the things that we’re going to do along the way to make that happen.”

Tomlin also knows that, along the way to make that happen, the Steelers will encounter the Patriots at least once, and maybe twice. He’s not afraid to talk about that.

“I’m going to embrace the elephant in the room,” Tomlin said. “There’s going to be fireworks. But it’s probably going to be part one. You know? . . .

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mike-tomlin-win-022212262.html

[ALLD]

Secondary is back to being the weak link, however it looked like Butler was trying out man coverage in real time in prep for Week 15.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mike Tomlin Promises ‘Fireworks’ Vs. Patriots, Already Looking Ahead To AFC Championship Rematch

November 27, 2017
By Michael Hurley, CBS Boston

BOSTON (CBS) — If there’s one thing that hasn’t been lacking from the Steelers in recent years, it’s bulletin board material from their head coach — specifically as it relates to the Patriots.

to read rest of article:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/11/27/mike-tomlin-fireworks-patriots-bulletin-board-material/

[Moose]

I like having a coach with the faith and determination of wanting to 'win it all' ! Good motivation...wish all the player's had that mindset.

[teegre]

Mike Tomlin Promises ‘Fireworks’ Vs. Patriots, Already Looking Ahead To AFC Championship Rematch

November 27, 2017
By Michael Hurley, CBS Boston

BOSTON (CBS) — If there’s one thing that hasn’t been lacking from the Steelers in recent years, it’s bulletin board material from their head coach — specifically as it relates to the Patriots.

to read rest of article:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/11/27/mike-tomlin-fireworks-patriots-bulletin-board-material/

They are still bringing up Tomlin’s “a$$holes” comment (from AB’s Facebook Live). :lol: If they heard 1/10 the stuff said in lockerrrooms, they’d realize that that was absolutely nothing.

And, as far as “bulletin board material” goes, if anything, Tomlin dissed every other AFC team besides the Taperiots... because, Tomlin insinuated that the Steelers & Taperiots would play again in the playoffs. Now, Tomlin did not say this, but logic says that since the Steelers & Taperiots will likely be the #1 & #2 seeds, a rematch could only happen in the AFCCG.

So... it was in no way a diss of the Taperiots. In fact, just the opposite.

I do indeed expect some other team to replay this interview during the playoffs... Oh well. :yawn:

[AtlantaDan]

They are still bringing up Tomlin’s “a$$holes” comment (from AB’s Facebook Live). :lol: If they heard 1/10 the stuff said in lockerrrooms, they’d realize that that was absolutely nothing.

And, as far as “bulletin board material” goes, if anything, Tomlin dissed every other AFC team besides the Taperiots... because, Tomlin insinuated that the Steelers & Taperiots would play again in the playoffs. Now, Tomlin did not say this, but logic says that since the Steelers & Taperiots will likely be the #1 & #2 seeds, a rematch could only happen in the AFCCG.

So... it was in no way a diss of the Taperiots. In fact, just the opposite.

I do indeed expect some other team to replay this interview during the playoffs... Oh well. :yawn:

A coach saying his team and another team are the two best teams in the conference has been used in the past by the coach of a third team as a successful motivational tool :coffee:

Before Oakland's first-round game with Miami, Raider Coach John Madden had said of the Raiders and the Dolphins, "When the two best teams in football get together, anything can happen.""I'll tell you what anything is," [Chuck] Noll told the Steelers. "Anything is that Oakland isn't getting into the Super Bowl." The room was charged. [Joe] Greene jumped up and began waving his fists and yelling. The fat was in the fire.

The Steelers soundly whipped Oakland.

https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this (https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this)

[zulater]

In a sense this is bullshit. He's not saying anything that anyone else associated with the sport isn't thinking. But at the same token with two division games coming up against teams that have found some playoff pulse, do you really need this? Put yourself on the other team and you can just see their coaches telling their teams that Tomlin has more or less put you in the rear view mirror before the games have even been played. Now granted the Steelers have a significant divisional lead, but neither of these games will likely be easy. And if you lose either or both you can forget that number one seed and you are in effect scrambling to preserve the division lead. So does this sort of thing change results? Probably not. But I don't like tempting fate. Bringing bad karma on yourself. If the Steelers lose these next games Tomlin will be wearing egg all over his face and the Patriots game could prove anti-climatic with the Patriots already having all but locked up the number one seed.

[AtlantaDan]

Ben uses today's Tuesday morning radio show/stream of consciousness session to say at least Ben remains focused :coffee:

935543603463688192

[teegre]

In a sense this is bullshit. He's not saying anything that anyone else associated with the sport isn't thinking. But at the same token with two division games coming up against teams that have found some playoff pulse, do you really need this? Put yourself on the other team and you can just see their coaches telling their teams that Tomlin has more or less put you in the rear view mirror before the games have even been played. Now granted the Steelers have a significant divisional lead, but neither of these games will likely be easy. And if you lose either or both you can forget that number one seed and you are in effect scrambling to preserve the division lead. So does this sort of thing change results? Probably not. But I don't like tempting fate. Bringing bad karma on yourself. If the Steelers lose these next games Tomlin will be wearing egg all over his face and the Patriots game could prove anti-climatic with the Patriots already having all but locked up the number one seed.

I get what you are saying.

But, I also do not see the Steelers looking past the hated Bengals and the rival Ravens. I agree that Tomlin’s comments could provide extra motivation for the Bengals and/or Ravens, but they already hate us/already want to hurt us.

[steel striker]

To me it really does not matter what Tomlin said because, I'm sure 30 other teams think the same thing about the cheats/pats. He said it time to move on and, Hell the cheats are so buttoned they can't even say anything that does not get approved by Belicheat.

[Hawkman]

Colin Cowherd talked about this today.....He has such a man crush on Belacheat. I had to turn it off.

- - - Updated - - -


To me it really does not matter what Tomlin said because, I'm sure 30 other teams think the same thing about the cheats/pats. He said it time to move on and, Hell the cheats are so buttoned they can't even say anything that does not get approved by Belicheat.

Yeah, Gronk is actually scared of him.

[tube517]

Elevator music

[43Hitman]

Colin Cowherd talked about this today.....He has such a man crush on Belacheat. I had to turn it off.
Oh man I cannot stand this guy. Closet racist and an elitist that looks down his nose to any working man. A complete Lebron worshiping asshat.

[Psycho Ward 86]

A coach saying his team and another team are the two best teams in the conference has been used in the past by the coach of a third team as a successful motivational tool :coffee:

Before Oakland's first-round game with Miami, Raider Coach John Madden had said of the Raiders and the Dolphins, "When the two best teams in football get together, anything can happen.""I'll tell you what anything is," [Chuck] Noll told the Steelers. "Anything is that Oakland isn't getting into the Super Bowl." The room was charged. [Joe] Greene jumped up and began waving his fists and yelling. The fat was in the fire.

The Steelers soundly whipped Oakland.

https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this (https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this)


Belichick LOVES bulletin board material and used it to beat the Eagles for having the audacity to plan a superbowl parade before losing to the patriots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4oSXzEQj7k

[Butch]

In a sense this is bullshit. He's not saying anything that anyone else associated with the sport isn't thinking. But at the same token with two division games coming up against teams that have found some playoff pulse, do you really need this? Put yourself on the other team and you can just see their coaches telling their teams that Tomlin has more or less put you in the rear view mirror before the games have even been played. Now granted the Steelers have a significant divisional lead, but neither of these games will likely be easy. And if you lose either or both you can forget that number one seed and you are in effect scrambling to preserve the division lead. So does this sort of thing change results? Probably not. But I don't like tempting fate. Bringing bad karma on yourself. If the Steelers lose these next games Tomlin will be wearing egg all over his face and the Patriots game could prove anti-climatic with the Patriots already having all but locked up the number one seed.
Completely agree with this.

Guess it's time to unleash hell

[st33lersguy]

If Colin Coward ever interviewed the mighty Bellicheat, I'd half expect him to ask Bellicheat "Will you go out on a date with me?"

Similarly, if he ever interviewed Tomlin, I'd half expect him to ask Tomlin "Do you like torturing kittens for fun?"

Seriously

[st33lersguy]

That being said though, you should never give bulletin board material which is what that is.

[AtlantaDan]

That being said though, you should never give bulletin board material which is what that is.

It provides an opportunity for some opposing team soundbites after the game if the Bengals or Ravens (for being overlooked) or the Pats (for once again owning the Steelers) win in December. But I doubt it provides any real competitive advantage.

Harbaugh might and players for the Ravens or Bengals will pop off if they win. Pats will say nothing if they win on December 17 since they probably expect to see the Steelers in January and Belichick has them under control.

[Lady Steel]

One game at a time.

I swear, Tomlin and everyone else looking too far ahead are going to jinx us. :pin:

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

One game at a time.

I swear, Tomlin and everyone else looking too far ahead are going to jinx us. :pin: F jinxing it and we are either better then the Pats or not. We definitely are the more talented team. Time will tell and glad what Tomlin said!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Tomlin done pissed off the Bengals, Ravens,Texans and the Browns just talking ahead about the Patriots. We are going to get a beat down now! Thank God Tomlin didn't piss of the 49er's too!

[tube517]

Tomlin done pissed off the Bengals, Ravens,Texans and the Browns just talking ahead about the Patriots. We are going to get a beat down now! Thank God Tomlin didn't piss of the 49er's too!

So we might as well not play any games and just hand the Lombardi to St Bellicheat. :rolleyes:

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

So we might as well not play any games and just hand the Lombardi to St Bellicheat. :rolleyes: Where did you get that from my post ? My point was Tomlin piss off a bunch of crappy teams!

[tube517]

Where did you get that from my post ? My point was Tomlin piss off a bunch of crappy teams!

We are going to get a beat down now is what you stated.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

We are going to get a beat down now is what you stated. Yes by the crap as teams Tomlin pissed off. Sarcasm and again glad Tomlin said what he said. Bunch of losing teams he may have pissed off. Who The F are they ?

[tube517]

A coach saying his team and another team are the two best teams in the conference has been used in the past by the coach of a third team as a successful motivational tool :coffee:

Before Oakland's first-round game with Miami, Raider Coach John Madden had said of the Raiders and the Dolphins, "When the two best teams in football get together, anything can happen.""I'll tell you what anything is," [Chuck] Noll told the Steelers. "Anything is that Oakland isn't getting into the Super Bowl." The room was charged. [Joe] Greene jumped up and began waving his fists and yelling. The fat was in the fire.

The Steelers soundly whipped Oakland.

https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this (https://www.si.com/vault/1975/02/17/557877/youre-a-part-of-all-this)


Bradshaw disagrees but he uses the above as an example.

But I thought Tomlin was a cheerleader??????


Terry Bradshaw defends Mike Tomlin, Steelers



"I’ve heard Mike Tomlin say they expect to win it all, and I get that," Bradshaw said. "You should think that way.

"I recall going into a meeting before we played the Raiders in the AFC Championship Game (in 1974), and Chuck Noll flat telling us that we’re gonna go out there and we’re gonna beat them.

"We had never heard him say that we’re going to go out and beat anybody, and we did."

Bradshaw and the Steelers defeated the Raiders, 24-13, en route to their first Super Bowl victory over the Vikings two weeks later. Bradshaw went onto have a Hall of Fame career, winning the NFL's MVP award in 1978 and two Super Bowl MVP awards while leading the Steelers to four Super Bowl victories.

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Bolt/Terry-Bradshaw-defends-Mike-Tomlin-Pittsburgh-Steelers-111336157

[Born2Steel]

If we play to OUR best, and every other team plays to THEIR best, yes we 'should' win it all. In that scenario we are the best team this year.

[vasteeler]

It would have been cooler if he had said " We will win it all"

[SteelMember]

I see Eddie B already wants to look ahead as well... and stir the pot a little while he's there.

Patriots the favorite vs. Steelers, no matter the place

Mike Tomlin talked about the game as “fireworks,” so who would be favored in that Patriots-Steelers heavyweight matchup in two weeks at Heinz Field? And, subsequently, if they meet in the AFC championship?

We reached out to a Scott Cooley of Bookmaker.eu, a professional online gambling site that has a sports book. Cooley turned to his bookmakers to determine, based on where the Patriots and Steelers stand today, what the odds on that game might be.

Steelers fans might be surprised to know their team would be underdogs in all circumstances.

For the Dec. 17 game at Heinz Field, the Patriots would be favored by 3 points.

PG Article (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/11/30/steelers-patriots-super-bowl-odds-nfl-2017-season-mike-tomlin/stories/201711300196)

[st33lersguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjeh_PiqUU8

To quote a certain other coach, hopefully this is the mantra of the week

[86WARD]

Lol. I love that interview...

[teegre]

I was looking for the thread with Colin Cowhatred ripping Tomlin for looking ahead.

First of all... 3-0.

Secondly, the Taperiots are behind. Hmm... might they be looking ahead to next week??? I’m sure they’ll still win this game, but if not, people will rationalize this loss by saying: “Belichick is a genius; he saved his team’s energy for next week when it really matters” (which, is actually a good gameplan, because tonight’s game has almost no bearing on the #1 seed).

Lastly, Cowherd swore that the Taperiots are up 14-0 at halftime in every game. Exaggerate much.

[polamalubeast]

I was looking for the thread with Colin Cowhatred ripping Tomlin for looking ahead.

First of all... 3-0.

Secondly, the Taperiots are behind. Hmm... might they be looking ahead to next week??? I’m sure they’ll still win this game, but if not, people will rationalize this loss by saying: “Belichick is a genius; he saved his team’s energy for next week when it really matters” (which, is actually a good gameplan, because tonight’s game has almost no bearing on the #1 seed).

Lastly, Cowherd swore that the Taperiots are up 14-0 at halftime in every game. Exaggerate much.


The Pats could not have a playoff bye if they lose against us next week since the Jaguars have the tiebreaker over the Pats .....

[teegre]

The Pats could not have a playoff bye if they lose against us next week since the Jaguars have the tiebreaker over the Pats .....

If the Taperiots win on Sunday, the Dolphins loss means zilch.

But... if the Taperiots lose on Sunday, you are right:



Let’s say we beat the Taperiots... and, even if we lose to the Texans or Browns, we would still end up 13-3.

The Taperiots and Jaguars can only get to 12-4.

But, because the Taperiots lost to 3 AFC teams and the Jaguars only lost to two AFC teams, the Jaguars would hold the tie-breaker over the Taperiots... and would get the #2 seed.

So, assuming we win on Sunday... Go Jags!!!

[86WARD]

They need to man up and win. New England isn’t that good talent wise. Other than Cooks Brady and Gronk, the rest of the team is suspect. If the Steelers lose, which I think they will, it’s going to be because of the coaching staff being out coached.

[Mojouw]

Wait. What?

While the secondary has had serious struggles this season, that is an impressive collection of impact talent. Gilmore/Butler/Chung/McCourty is nothing to sneeze at. On paper that is far better secondary than the Steelers role out. Luckily the games aren't played on paper.

While they lack the dominant lead back, their overall collection of talent at RB is impressive and well suited to their offensive system. Burkhead in particular has been a swiss-army knife for them just opening up mismatches against teams all year.

Unlike in years past, they lack true impact players on the defensive front 7. They have some interesting young guys, but most of their production is the result of scheme. So there, I agree with you. They are ordinary and the Steelers offensive line should be viewed as the superior unit.

New England has never been a star driven team. But to say that they lack talent -- that might be too far.

[DesertSteel]

Is Chung hurt? He limped off in the 4th Q last night.

[43Hitman]

Is Chung hurt? He limped off in the 4th Q last night.

That what they have been saying on the Pats boards..they're concerned.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ray Fittipaldo's Steelers chat transcript: 1.15.18

RAY FITTIPALDO
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
JAN 15, 2018

Ray Fittipaldo: Welcome to my Steelers chat. Let's get started.

Chowdah Mullaney: just seems like this all comes back to Tomlin . Great organizational talent engine, and absolutely pathetic coaching.

Chowdah Mullaney: all trolling aside, how much blame do you lay at the feet of the coaching staff? Pitt is far and away the most talented team in the NFL, but they are routinely unprepared, baited into stupid plays(how bout a QB sneak) of which they actually got away w a few today (2 4th down 40+ completions) and can’t focus on what’s in front of them. People around the Pats organization said all weekend “don’t be surprised if that jag team comes out and knocks pitt out”.

Ray Fittipaldo: Nice handle, Chowdah. I lay lots of blame at the feet of the coaches, and I start at the top with Mike Tomlin. When he did that interview with Tony Dungy and looked ahead to the Patriots Part I and Part II. That gave his players the freedom to do the same. It was inexcusable for him to do that and a fireable offense in my opinion. I don't know if the Steelers will hold him accountable, but he made an egregious error when he answered that question by Dungy. Haley isn't likely to return and I'm not sure about Butler either. But for me it starts and stops with Tomlin. This season was a bad reality show.

to read rest of article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/15/Ray-Fittipaldo-Steelers-chat-1-15-18/stories/201801150092

[plenewken]

Ray Fittipaldo's Steelers chat transcript: 1.15.18

RAY FITTIPALDO
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
JAN 15, 2018

Ray Fittipaldo: Nice handle, Chowdah. I lay lots of blame at the feet of the coaches, and I start at the top with Mike Tomlin. When he did that interview with Tony Dungy and looked ahead to the Patriots Part I and Part II. That gave his players the freedom to do the same. It was inexcusable for him to do that and a fireable offense in my opinion. I don't know if the Steelers will hold him accountable, but he made an egregious error when he answered that question by Dungy. Haley isn't likely to return and I'm not sure about Butler either. But for me it starts and stops with Tomlin. This season was a bad reality show.


Totally agree with him.

[Edman]

The 2017 team got 13-3 on talent alone. Better coaching takes them to a Super Bowl. Inferior Coaching resulted in a Divisional round exit to Blake Bortles and the Jaguars.

[SteelMember]

At least they got some really nice AFC North Champs t-shirts and hats.... :rolleyes:

[Mojouw]

All right. All right. I'm gonna try and understand the argument. I will make an honest effort. But what I need is for someone to connect the dots for me.

Let's start at it being sometime in early November and the Steelers are 11-2 and Tomlin has a sit down with Dungy. Says whatever it was that he says - I honestly don't know because I didn't read or see it.

Then the Steelers go 2-1 in their last 3 games. Then Sunday happens. Okay. That's the starting sequence. Other information we know - the team played balls out against the Pats and almost won except for a questionable call. The team made a formidable and valiant comeback in the playoff loss.

So can anyone walk me through the causal links between comment and outcome?

[AtlantaDan]

The 2017 team got 13-3 on talent alone. Better coaching takes them to a Super Bowl. Inferior Coaching resulted in a Divisional round exit to Blake Bortles and the Jaguars.

It might be coaching but perhaps as much in terms of managing the personalities in the locker room than just Xs and Os

Interesting quote from AV today

When Villanueva was asked whether the Steelers have the right makeup in their locker room, he answered a slightly different question. “I feel like we have really good players, for sure,” he said. “Maybe it’s not just talent that’s gonna get you to the championship. And maybe we need to find that out. But again, I’m not a head coach either. I’ve never won a Super Bowl. I don’t know what it takes to win a Super Bowl.”...

I have a very good position coach in [Mike Munchak]. I spend a lot of time listening to him and making sure that I’m ready to play every single game,” he said. “I like the culture. I like the Rooneys. Obviously, I love the head coach. I have a lot of respect for coach Tomlin, the way he goes about his business and what a great person he is, and what a great leader.

“But there’s a lot of things and players involved, players inclusive, that we have to change to take our game to the next level — to be the dominant team that doesn’t lose a game at home in the playoffs.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/15/alejandro-villanueva-steelers-jaguars-nfl-playoffs-2017/stories/201801150115
(http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/15/alejandro-villanueva-steelers-jaguars-nfl-playoffs-2017/stories/201801150115)
(http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/15/alejandro-villanueva-steelers-jaguars-nfl-playoffs-2017/stories/201801150115)Based on that quote add AV to the list of those who do not go out of their way to express their respect for Haley

I bet DeCastro and AV have had some interesting conversations about all the unnecessary drama of the past season

[Shoes]

It might be coaching but more in terms of managing the personalities in the locker room than Xs and Os

Interesting quote from AV today

When Villanueva was asked whether the Steelers have the right makeup in their locker room, he answered a slightly different question. “I feel like we have really good players, for sure,” he said. “Maybe it’s not just talent that’s gonna get you to the championship. And maybe we need to find that out. But again, I’m not a head coach either. I’ve never won a Super Bowl. I don’t know what it takes to win a Super Bowl.”...

I have a very good position coach in [Mike Munchak]. I spend a lot of time listening to him and making sure that I’m ready to play every single game,” he said. “I like the culture. I like the Rooneys. Obviously, I love the head coach. I have a lot of respect for coach Tomlin, the way he goes about his business and what a great person he is, and what a great leader.

“But there’s a lot of things and players involved, players inclusive, that we have to change to take our game to the next level — to be the dominant team that doesn’t lose a game at home in the playoffs.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/15/alejandro-villanueva-steelers-jaguars-nfl-playoffs-2017/stories/201801150115

I bet DeCastro and AV have had some interesting conversations about all the drama of the past seasonBased on that quote add AV to the list of those who do not express their respect for Haley

Indeed, and DeCastro, AV & Dobbs are probably the only three on the team that went to college to learn something other than football.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers vs. Jaguars: 4 Winners and 4 Losers in the Steelers’ season-ending loss to Jacksonville

By Jeff.Hartman
Jan 15, 2018

LOSERS

Mike Tomlin

I am not one to blame coaches, but there were some huge decisions which came back to kick the Steelers in the behind. The worst decision of all, in my opinion, was the onside kick in the fourth quarter. It showed a genuine lack of trust in his players, and it ultimately gift-wrapped the win for the Jaguars. This wasn’t the only questionable decision, turning away points to go for it on fourth down, on more than one occasion, and at a time when the Steelers needed a prepared, and focused, start to the game, they were anything but — and that is a slap in the face of the man in charge.

to read rest of article:

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-2017-2018-preview-playoffs-divisional-round-news-updates-roster-depth-chart-tickets-jaguars-how-to-watch/2018/1/15/16891274/steelers-vs-jaguars-winners-and-loser-in-the-steelers-season-ending-loss-to-jacksonville-playoffs

[AtlantaDan]

All right. All right. I'm gonna try and understand the argument. I will make an honest effort. But what I need is for someone to connect the dots for me.

Let's start at it being sometime in early November and the Steelers are 11-2 and Tomlin has a sit down with Dungy. Says whatever it was that he says - I honestly don't know because I didn't read or see it.

Then the Steelers go 2-1 in their last 3 games. Then Sunday happens. Okay. That's the starting sequence. Other information we know - the team played balls out against the Pats and almost won except for a questionable call. The team made a formidable and valiant comeback in the playoff loss.

So can anyone walk me through the causal links between comment and outcome?

OK - here goes :chuckle:

That Tomlin is Captain Ahab, the Pats are Moby Dick, and his fixation on slaying the white whale ultimately wrecked the season because it took the focus off what matters is winning the Super Bowl by taking care of business every week rather than beating the Pats while giving a green light to the players to express similar thoughts. The season became all about what the Steelers did against the Pats to the exclusion of everything else. It created a bad frame of reference for how to measure progress and success. For whatever reason the Steelers were catatonic for the start of yesterday's game - that would not have been the case against the Pats.

My view is what was really unforgivable was Tomlin gave Tony Dungy the quote not because Tomlin was keeping it real but because he wanted to show off on national TV while giving the man who gave him his big break into pro coaching an interview with sound bites that would get nationwide attention to benefit both Tomlin and Dungy.

[Shoes]

That's what Jalen Ramsey said. :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

OK - here goes :chuckle:

That Tomlin is Captain Ahab, the Pats are Moby Dick, and his fixation on slaying the white whale ultimately wrecked the season because it took the focus off what matters is winning the Super Bowl by taking care of business every week rather than beating the Pats while giving a green light to the players to express similar thoughts. The season became all about what the Steelers did against the Pats to the exclusion of everything else. It created a bad frame of reference for how to measure progress and success. For whatever reason the Steelers were catatonic for the start of yesterday's game - that would not have been the case against the Pats.

My view is what was really unforgivable was Tomlin gave Tony Dungy the quote not because Tomlin was keeping it real but because he wanted to show off on national TV while giving the man who gave him his big break into pro coaching an interview with sound bites that would get nationwide attention to benefit both Tomlin and Dungy.

Sorry, while that is logical and coherent -- it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean I never played sports past high school, so what do I really know but when that whistle blew it wasn't hard to get motivated for whoever we played. Now my HS teams stunk and were always the underdog...

Anyway, I just don't see how some comments here or there are anything more than that. It isn't like folks were just playing video games and day drinking at the facility for the past two weeks.

But basically everyone seems to think that this was somehow either the major cause or largest contributing factor to the loss on Sunday - so I must be wrong and it is just my problem to try and wrap my head around it.

[st33lersguy]

Maybe next year, this team can try not running their mouth to the press and not creating off-field drama

[AtlantaDan]

Sorry, while that is logical and coherent -- it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean I never played sports past high school, so what do I really know but when that whistle blew it wasn't hard to get motivated for whoever we played. Now my HS teams stunk and were always the underdog...

Anyway, I just don't see how some comments here or there are anything more than that. It isn't like folks were just playing video games and day drinking at the facility for the past two weeks.

But basically everyone seems to think that this was somehow either the major cause or largest contributing factor to the loss on Sunday - so I must be wrong and it is just my problem to try and wrap my head around it.

It was not the major cause but it did not help.

At the highest level of any profession (and pro football is a pretty high level compared to other professions in terms of who is there as opposed to who wants to be there) giving up any edge can be catastrophic given the margin of error - Tomlin blunted his team's focus for non-Pats games by focusing on Pats games

My all time favorite stat about the focus of the 70s Steelers is not 4 Lombardis in 6 years - it is this

In their eight playoff years (1972-79), the Steelers’ record against teams with records below .500 is 59-1; until the Bengals upset them in 1979, they were 56-0.

https://www.si.com/2014/06/17/chuck-noll-pittsburgh-steelers-coach-man-not-myth

Chuck Noll had the Steelers in their prime focused every week - we all know that is not true with Tomlin

[Mojouw]

It was not the major cause but it did not help.

At the highest level of any profession (and pro football is a pretty high level compared to other professions in terms of who is there as opposed to who wants to be there) giving up any edge can be catastrophic given the margin of error - Tomlin blunted his team's focus for non-Pats games by focusing on Pats games

My all time favorite stat about the focus of the 70s Steelers is not 4 Lombardis in 6 years - it is this

In their eight playoff years (1972-79), the Steelers’ record against teams with records below .500 is 59-1; until the Bengals upset them in 1979, they were 56-0.

https://www.si.com/2014/06/17/chuck-noll-pittsburgh-steelers-coach-man-not-myth

Chuck Noll had the Steelers in their prime focused every week - we all know that is not true with Tomlin

I dunno. It is kinda a trying to prove a negative thing for me. Poor analogy, but it is where I am at. The only "proof" we have of the lack of focus charge is the general belief/sense by fans and talking heads that it is true. This is largely supported by quotes from players lifted out of context typically less than 12-24 hours after they have absorbed a massive emotional blow.

As for Noll, it is an amazing stat and truly worthy of appreciation. But the separation between a SB team and a sub .500 team prior to the salary cap had to be a yawning chasm compared to what it is today.

[FrancoLambert]

There's something to be said for keeping your mouth shut. Coaches and players alike.

At this level, any mental edge can be huge.

This team didn't keep their mouths shut and it hurt them.

[fansince'76]

Sorry, while that is logical and coherent -- it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean I never played sports past high school, so what do I really know but when that whistle blew it wasn't hard to get motivated for whoever we played. Now my HS teams stunk and were always the underdog...

Anyway, I just don't see how some comments here or there are anything more than that. It isn't like folks were just playing video games and day drinking at the facility for the past two weeks.

But basically everyone seems to think that this was somehow either the major cause or largest contributing factor to the loss on Sunday - so I must be wrong and it is just my problem to try and wrap my head around it.

Or it could have all been just a huge, overhyped bullshit media construct. Occam's razor.

[fansince'76]

My all time favorite stat about the focus of the 70s Steelers is not 4 Lombardis in 6 years - it is this

In their eight playoff years (1972-79), the Steelers’ record against teams with records below .500 is 59-1; until the Bengals upset them in 1979, they were 56-0.

https://www.si.com/2014/06/17/chuck-noll-pittsburgh-steelers-coach-man-not-myth

Chuck Noll had the Steelers in their prime focused every week - we all know that is not true with Tomlin

See your point, Dan, but it was also a different era.

"If I have to motivate you, I will fire you." - Chuck Noll

Once in a while I will watch one of the old Super Bowl games from the '70s and find myself refreshed that there was a dearth of celebrating compared to today's game, particularly after routine plays.

[teegre]

The Steelers lost 4 times this season:

3 times to the teams in the AFCCG
1 time to the lowly Bears

I cannot defend the Bears loss, but those other 3 losses were to the two best teams in the AFC.

[fansince'76]

I cannot defend the Bears loss, but those other 3 losses were to the two best teams in the AFC.

And one of those losses was a robbery by the officials...

[teegre]

And one of those losses was a robbery by the officials...

If Tomlin hadn’t talked about it, it wouldn’t have been overturned...

[Craic]

See your point, Dan, but it was also a different era.

"If I have to motivate you, I will fire you." - Chuck Noll

Once in a while I will watch one of the old Super Bowl games from the '70s and find myself refreshed that there was a dearth of celebrating compared to today's game, particularly after routine plays.

That was also during the years when parity did not exist in the league. In this league, the margin between the best team and worst team is so small that literally two or three changes may shoot a team from worst to first in the NFL.

[hawaiiansteeler]

The heat on Steelers coach Mike Tomlin is justified up to a point

Yahoo Sports Charles Robinson

It is the incurable virus of the NFL, this January spate of second-guessing. Even in the league’s most celebrated tapestry of iconic head coaches, none has been immune to it. Not Vince Lombardi. Not Bill Walsh or Chuck Noll. Not Don Shula or Tom Landry. Not even Bill Belichick, whose unmatched career is pocked with trades that were (briefly) called into question, or failed draft choices that faded with time, or even the occasional team-related investigation by the NFL.

This is the reality that undoubtedly steadies Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers ownership now. The inescapable fact that even the most hardened dynasties in league history have not been immune to criticism. And in turn, the acceptance that some of that criticism was warranted. This is where the Steelers and Tomlin are situated, at the crossroads of failure and self-reflection. And that might be the best thing that could have happened to a franchise that showed signs of having gotten a little arrogant.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heat-steelers-coach-mike-tomlin-justified-point-165848589.html

[DesertSteel]

Indeed, and DeCastro, AV & Dobbs are probably the only three on the team that went to college to learn something other than football.
That's probably an unfair statement.

[Shoes]

That's probably an unfair statement.


Your probably right since many of them are so into school they jump on the NFL bandwagon in their JR year.

A few interesting reads

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/7/9/5885433/ncaa-trial-student-athletes-education

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/us/ncaa-athletes-reading-scores/index.html

[DesertSteel]

Your probably right since many of them are so into school they jump on the NFL bandwagon in their JR year.

A few interesting reads

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/7/9/5885433/ncaa-trial-student-athletes-education

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/us/ncaa-athletes-reading-scores/index.html
You're probably right. Only 3 of the 53 Steelers cared anything about their education.

[Shoes]

You're probably right. Only 3 of the 53 Steelers cared anything about their education.

The majority of them didn't get scholarships to school for their academic achievements. It was because they were gifted athletically and their goal is to play in the NFL and make a lot of money not their education. Nothing wrong with that.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ron Cook: Yes, Mike Tomlin has room to improve

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
JAN 23, 2018

Mike Tomlin is a good coach. I believe he’s the second-best coach in the NFL. But it has become clearer than ever that the gap between him and Bill Belichick is enormous. It is just as clear that Tomlin can be so much better. Art Rooney II should demand that he be better.

I thought about that Sunday as I watched James Harrison get a big sack to help the New England Patriots beat the Jacksonville Jaguars on their way to Super Bowl LII. Harrison was at the center of much that went wrong for Tomlin this season. Releasing Harrison when he did and allowing him to go to the Steelers’ biggest rival might have been Tomlin’s worst mistake. That easily could have been Ben Roethlisberger who Harrison sacked late in the AFC championship, not the Jaguars’ Blake Bortles.

to read rest of article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2018/01/23/mike-tomlin-steelers-head-coach-bill-belichick-patriots-afc-nfl/stories/201801230018

[86WARD]

Enormous isn’t the word for it...not to mention the stupid decisions Tomlin makes at times...just boneheaded at times...ie) Harrison situation.

[AtlantaDan]

Enormous isn’t the word for it...not to mention the stupid decisions Tomlin makes at times...just boneheaded at times...ie) Harrison situation.

It is like the 70s - Oilers coached by colorful media personality Bum Phillips while Steelers coached by bloodless technician Chuck Noll - the gap was pretty enormous then too

As I have posted before, those of us around in the 70s now know what it was like to be a Raiders, Bengals, or Oilers fan

[FrancoLambert]

It is like the 70s - Oilers coached by colorful media personality Bum Phillips while Steelers coached by bloodless technician Chuck Noll - the gap was pretty enormous then too

As I have posted before, those of us around in the 70s now know what it was like to be a Raiders, Bengals, or Oilers fan

I remember Bum once declaring something to the effect, "this year we banged on the door, next year we're going to knock the damn door down."

It never happened.

[stillers4me]

Why are we still posting new articles in 3 month old threads. :frusty:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Why are we still posting new articles in 3 month old threads. :frusty:

article is dated Nov 26 so actually that would only be two months...

[zulater]

Enormous isn’t the word for it...not to mention the stupid decisions Tomlin makes at times...just boneheaded at times...ie) Harrison situation.

No way of proving it of course.But I think we'd still be playing if Tomlin doesn't onsides kick with 2.18 down 7 with two time outs. I think the pressure on Jacksonville's offense would have been immense if they start at or inside their own 25 with a raucous Heinz Field crowd howling needing a first down to keep a pistol hot Steelers offense off the field. I truly believe they wouldn't have even let Bortles pass. 3 runs into a stacked box to either gain or come up short of a first down. It was the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in my life in a big game. :doh:

[steel striker]

Even my wife said Tomlin does not make good football decisions and, she is so right!

[Mojouw]

No way of proving it of course.But I think we'd still be playing if Tomlin doesn't onsides kick with 2.18 down 7 with two time outs. I think the pressure on Jacksonville's offense would have been immense if they start at or inside their own 25 with a raucous Heinz Field crowd howling needing a first down to keep a pistol hot Steelers offense off the field. I truly believe they wouldn't have even let Bortles pass. 3 runs into a stacked box to either gain or come up short of a first down. It was the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in my life in a big game. :doh:

Or it could've been another long pass to Cole against a sold out run stop (earlier the same game). Or a 80+ yard run for a TD (Dallas last year in same situation, Bears and Jags this year).

I mean hindsight is 20/20 and kicking onsides there only looks bad because they lost. They win and Tomlin is a convention defying genius.

[zulater]

Or it could've been another long pass to Cole against a sold out run stop (earlier the same game). Or a 80+ yard run for a TD (Dallas last year in same situation, Bears and Jags this year).

I mean hindsight is 20/20 and kicking onsides there only looks bad because they lost. They win and Tomlin is a convention defying genius.

Bullshit! No fucking hindsight involved. No one in their right mind thought that was the percentage play when and as it happened! If they would have pulled it off I still would have said it was the wrong move. If they break the run or get the first down via pass you take your hat off and congratulate them for earning the win.

Contested onsides kicks are at best like a 10% proposition. For most teams. For this team even less. As we know the Steelers haven't successfully executed an onsides kick since Tomlin's first season in 07. Speaking of which.

Hell I even remember Tomlin's first playoff game during the 07 playoffs ( played in Jan 08) when in a similar situation he wouldn't let Big Ben throw clinging to a lead with under 4 minutes to go. And we ended up punting away and David Garrard ended up beating us in Heinz Field.

You know I've never been a Tomlin basher. But that move was indefensible! Again you weren't kicking the ball away to Aaron Rogers, you were kicking it to Blake Bortles in his first ever road playoff game. Make them make a play inside their own territory with everything on the line. Different dynamic than they ever faced. It was a horrible decision. Period.

[Steeldude]

No way of proving it of course.But I think we'd still be playing if Tomlin doesn't onsides kick with 2.18 down 7 with two time outs. I think the pressure on Jacksonville's offense would have been immense if they start at or inside their own 25 with a raucous Heinz Field crowd howling needing a first down to keep a pistol hot Steelers offense off the field. I truly believe they wouldn't have even let Bortles pass. 3 runs into a stacked box to either gain or come up short of a first down. It was the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in my life in a big game. :doh:

The Jaguars would have marched down for another score or ate up all of the time. Even if the Steelers stacked the box I doubt they would have stopped the running game. The Steelers defense looks lost far too often. The Steelers need a real DC.

[86WARD]

Out of curiosity, what’s it matter if the Steelers Defense needs to stop them at the 20 or the 50? Regardless of where the ball ends up (and there’s no guarantee that the Jags don’t return the kickoff to that point where the botched onside kick ended up) the Steelers Defense didn’t stop them. And yes, you weren’t kicking off to Aaron Rodgers...but they were kicking off to Blake Bortles who was playing like Aaron Rodgers. Lol. They didn’t stop them all day, they didn’t stop them Week 5.

[Mojouw]

Bullshit! No fucking hindsight involved. No one in their right mind thought that was the percentage play when and as it happened! If they would have pulled it off I still would have said it was the wrong move. If they break the run or get the first down via pass you take your hat off and congratulate them for earning the win.

Contested onsides kicks are at best like a 10% proposition. For most teams. For this team even less. As we know the Steelers haven't successfully executed an onsides kick since Tomlin's first season in 07. Speaking of which.

Hell I even remember Tomlin's first playoff game during the 07 playoffs ( played in Jan 08) when in a similar situation he wouldn't let Big Ben throw clinging to a lead with under 4 minutes to go. And we ended up punting away and David Garrard ended up beating us in Heinz Field.

You know I've never been a Tomlin basher. But that move was indefensible! Again you weren't kicking the ball away to Aaron Rogers, you were kicking it to Blake Bortles in his first ever road playoff game. Make them make a play inside their own territory with everything on the line. Different dynamic than they ever faced. It was a horrible decision. Period.

I get all that, I do. And I wasn't attempting to accuse you of bashing Tomlin or anyone else. All I was point out was that in multiple situations in the same game and recent seasons with essentially the same defense, the Steelers had failed to make critical stops on defense. So Tomlin took a big risk. It didn't work. But to say there was no chain of reasoning or valid line of thinking behind the call is ignoring facts and recent events.

Also, that 07 defense was just a bit better than its 2017 counterpart. The 2016 defense let Elliot rip off a long TD run in the same situation that you are envisioning (Young QB on the road in crunch time) and that was with better ILB play. All day, the Steelers defense let up critical plays when they needed stops against the Jags. Then there was the Howard TD in OT against the Bears.

Saying that the defense should be able to stop Bortles and the Jags in their own territory and the defense actually doing it are 2 totally different things.

[Steelerchad]

Bullshit! No fucking hindsight involved. No one in their right mind thought that was the percentage play when and as it happened! If they would have pulled it off I still would have said it was the wrong move. If they break the run or get the first down via pass you take your hat off and congratulate them for earning the win.

Contested onsides kicks are at best like a 10% proposition. For most teams. For this team even less. As we know the Steelers haven't successfully executed an onsides kick since Tomlin's first season in 07. Speaking of which.

Hell I even remember Tomlin's first playoff game during the 07 playoffs ( played in Jan 08) when in a similar situation he wouldn't let Big Ben throw clinging to a lead with under 4 minutes to go. And we ended up punting away and David Garrard ended up beating us in Heinz Field.

You know I've never been a Tomlin basher. But that move was indefensible! Again you weren't kicking the ball away to Aaron Rogers, you were kicking it to Blake Bortles in his first ever road playoff game. Make them make a play inside their own territory with everything on the line. Different dynamic than they ever faced. It was a horrible decision. Period.

I think Tomlin made a lot of mistakes in this game, but I'm not sure the onsides kick was one of them.
His waste of a TO on offense with 3:30 left was ridiculous. Not calling his other 2 TO's prior to the 2 minute warning could have no reasonable explanation.
The way I look at the onside kick is that our D hadn't shown they could stop Jax from getting a TD all day, let alone that they just needed 1 first down. With that in mind, it was worth the risk to try it. In addition, if it was executed properly and we didn't recover it, they likely recover it at the 46 yard line. 1 first down ends the game whether they were at our 46 or their own 25. If they go 3 and out, not sure Marone kicked a 58+ yard FG. He likely punts and our offense would have 1:45 to drive 80-90 yards, which I fully believe they could have, the way they moved the ball in the 2nd half. Tomlin could not have guessed that his kicker would kick a 4 yard duff and that the Jags would get 9 yards to get into FG range without the first down. That should never have been in play. Only the poor kick execution made it possible.

[Born2Steel]

I don't agree with the onsides kick, mostly because it didn't work. But, I understand the call, mostly since our defense could stop a bowling ball in sand. It didn't matter where the Jags got the ball, they were going to keep it at that point in the game. They had our defense by the shorts and Tomlin knew it, and gave us a CHANCE to make a play and go win the game. It's genius if it works.

[86WARD]

Chuck Noll went for it on 4th & 9 in the Super Bowl ( I think it was X) against the Cowboys. The Cowboys had one of the most potent offenses in the league and Noll made the call with the game on the line...he ran Bleier right into the defense and got maybe 3 yards...A TERRIBLE CALL. The defense (probably best in NFL History) helps the decision...but if for some reason they didn’t stop them and the Cowboys score, the Noll legacy may not be what it is today.

Cowher made that onside kick call in Super Bowl XXX and was a “genius” for it. If it failed, he’d be labeled an idiot.

Tomlin made a gut call (just like the coaches before him) and because of Danny Smiths special teams they didn’t even have an opportunity for recovery.

It’s part of coaching. Rather have a coach with some balls than a guy that just sits back and plays everything overly conservative...and is out of a job in 3 years. You have to make the tough calls...

[teegre]

I think Tomlin made a lot of mistakes in this game, but I'm not sure the onsides kick was one of them.
His waste of a TO on offense with 3:30 left was ridiculous. Not calling his other 2 TO's prior to the 2 minute warning could have no reasonable explanation.
The way I look at the onside kick is that our D hadn't shown they could stop Jax from getting a TD all day, let alone that they just needed 1 first down. With that in mind, it was worth the risk to try it. In addition, if it was executed properly and we didn't recover it, they likely recover it at the 46 yard line. 1 first down ends the game whether they were at our 46 or their own 25. If they go 3 and out, not sure Marone kicked a 58+ yard FG. He likely punts and our offense would have 1:45 to drive 80-90 yards, which I fully believe they could have, the way they moved the ball in the 2nd half. Tomlin could not have guessed that his kicker would kick a 4 yard duff and that the Jags would get 9 yards to get into FG range without the first down. That should never have been in play. Only the poor kick execution made it possible.

That’s sort of my thoughts, as well.

1) The Steelers defense was reeling. And, tired.

2) The on-side kick should have traveled 10-12 yards (to around midfield).

a) If you get it, your defense gets to rest and you have the ball at midfield. It’s a small chance, but considering how “out of sorts” the defense was, it’s a logical call to make.

b) If you don’t get it, oh well... you’re in the same boat: needing to force a 3-&-out (because, if the Jags get a first down, the game is over).

Let’s say say they get 9 yards... as you said, it’s a 56-58 yard FG attempt. A miss give the Steelers the ball at midfield; so, the Jags likely punt it. Voila!!!!... the Steelers have to go 80-90 yards to tie the game.

3) The execution of the on-side kick was awful. Not only did it not travel 10-12 yards, it hit a Steelers player (5-yard penalty added to the crappy field position). In other words, instead of the Jaguars getting the ball at midfield, they got the ball alreasy in FG range.

[zulater]

Chuck Noll went for it on 4th & 9 in the Super Bowl ( I think it was X) against the Cowboys. The Cowboys had one of the most potent offenses in the league and Noll made the call with the game on the line...he ran Bleier right into the defense and got maybe 3 yards...A TERRIBLE CALL. The defense (probably best in NFL History) helps the decision...but if for some reason they didn’t stop them and the Cowboys score, the Noll legacy may not be what it is today.

Cowher made that onside kick call in Super Bowl XXX and was a “genius” for it. If it failed, he’d be labeled an idiot.

Tomlin made a gut call (just like the coaches before him) and because of Danny Smiths special teams they didn’t even have an opportunity for recovery.

It’s part of coaching. Rather have a coach with some balls than a guy that just sits back and plays everything overly conservative...and is out of a job in 3 years. You have to make the tough calls...

Noll went for that 4th down because the Cowboys had blocked one punt earlier in the game and nearly two others on top of that. Punter Bobby Walden was having issues with his hand, and was having difficulty transitioning the ball to punt. That's why he "went for it" there. Because he knew his punter was as likely to get his punt blocked as he was to get it off. He didn't pass because Bradshaw had been knocked out of the game by D.D. Lewis and Terry Hanratty was simply awful.

Cowher's onside kick against the Cowboys in SB XXX was an uncontested onsides kick. Huge difference. It caught the Cowboys completely by surprise and changed the games momentum. The Steelers to that point were getting their asses kicked. That kick put wind in their sails and the game was turned to the Steelers favor from that point until dumb ass O'Donnell threw his late picks. But again the difference in the success rate of an uncontested unexpected onsides kick as opposed to a defended onsides kick is extensive. The Saint's also used the same ploy to turn the momentum of their SB against the Colts. Not even remotely comparable game situation to Tomlin's onside kick.

A little context goes a long way. :coffee: Tomlin made a stupid call. I don't give a shit what the Jaguars offense had done to that point. It's a totally different dynamic protecting that lead with the weight f your season riding on it. Hell just go back a month earlier when the Steelers played the Pats. How many times did the Steelers punt that game? Not many. They pretty much pushed the Pats defense around all game. But when the Steelers got the ball back with around 4 minutes to play, a couple first downs and it's all she wrote, what happens? They get too conservative for their own good, and end up punting the ball back to Brady with plenty of time for the Patriots to take the lead. Think Bortles is better than Ben? I don't. Did Ben gag? No. It's just a different game dynamic than at any other point of the game. You put Bortles and that Jaguar offense inside their 25 and make them beat you.

I haven't heard one non Tomlin fanboy defend the call.

Does that mean I want Tomlin fired? No. Does that mean I'm diminishing his overall coaching resume? No. It just means it was a poor decision. You likely wont find another head coach who would say it was the correct call given the moment. It cost the Steelers their last real chance to tie that game. Not saying it cost them the game. It just cost them a reasonable chance to tie.

Oh yeah the Steelers also should have kicked the fg when they had the ball back with the clock stopped at 49 seconds in a 10 point game. Scoring a td with 1 second on the clock was ludicrous.

[AtlantaDan]

Oh yeah the Steelers also should have kicked the fg when they had the ball back with the clock stopped at 49 seconds in a 10 point game. Scoring a td with 1 second on the clock was ludicrous.

Depends if the only concern was who won the game - anyone who bet the halftime line at Steelers -7&1/2 did not think it was ludicrous:chuckle:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/las-vegas/line-movement/jaguars-@-steelers.cfm/date/1-14-18/time/1305

Steelers won the second half 28-17. Kicking a FG with no further score would have won the second half 24-17.

[Born2Steel]

Noll went for that 4th down because the Cowboys had blocked one punt earlier in the game and nearly two others on top of that. Punter Bobby Walden was having issues with his hand, and was having difficulty transitioning the ball to punt. That's why he "went for it" there. Because he knew his punter was as likely to get his punt blocked as he was to get it off. He didn't pass because Bradshaw had been knocked out of the game by D.D. Lewis and Terry Hanratty was simply awful.

Cowher's onside kick against the Cowboys in SB XXX was an uncontested onsides kick. Huge difference. It caught the Cowboys completely by surprise and changed the games momentum. The Steelers to that point were getting their asses kicked. That kick put wind in their sails and the game was turned to the Steelers favor from that point until dumb ass O'Donnell threw his late picks. But again the difference in the success rate of an uncontested unexpected onsides kick as opposed to a defended onsides kick is extensive. The Saint's also used the same ploy to turn the momentum of their SB against the Colts. Not even remotely comparable game situation to Tomlin's onside kick.

A little context goes a long way. :coffee: Tomlin made a stupid call. I don't give a shit what the Jaguars offense had done to that point. It's a totally different dynamic protecting that lead with the weight f your season riding on it. Hell just go back a month earlier when the Steelers played the Pats. How many times did the Steelers punt that game? Not many. They pretty much pushed the Pats defense around all game. But when the Steelers got the ball back with around 4 minutes to play, a couple first downs and it's all she wrote, what happens? They get too conservative for their own good, and end up punting the ball back to Brady with plenty of time for the Patriots to take the lead. Think Bortles is better than Ben? I don't. Did Ben gag? No. It's just a different game dynamic than at any other point of the game. You put Bortles and that Jaguar offense inside their 25 and make them beat you.

I haven't heard one non Tomlin fanboy defend the call.

Does that mean I want Tomlin fired? No. Does that mean I'm diminishing his overall coaching resume? No. It just means it was a poor decision. You likely wont find another head coach who would say it was the correct call given the moment. It cost the Steelers their last real chance to tie that game. Not saying it cost them the game. It just cost them a reasonable chance to tie.

Oh yeah the Steelers also should have kicked the fg when they had the ball back with the clock stopped at 49 seconds in a 10 point game. Scoring a td with 1 second on the clock was ludicrous.

This.
This is what drives me crazy on this forum. Complete lack of consistency. In the same post you argue that what happened in other games should be used as context for a coaching decision. But in the same post, what the Jags had done all game should be omitted from context? I guess because that context would give validity to the coaching decision that is being raged against. It matters that punts were NEARLY blocked, but not that the Jags had not been stopped yet? A little context does indeed go a long way. Not that I am a fan of the onsides kick, but there ARE actual valid reasons for it. But I guess that doesn't matter since you just don't give a $#@!.

And really, why such an aggressive stance anyway?

[zulater]

This.
This is what drives me crazy on this forum. Complete lack of consistency. In the same post you argue that what happened in other games should be used as context for a coaching decision. But in the same post, what the Jags had done all game should be omitted from context? I guess because that context would give validity to the coaching decision that is being raged against. It matters that punts were NEARLY blocked, but not that the Jags had not been stopped yet? A little context does indeed go a long way. Not that I am a fan of the onsides kick, but there ARE actual valid reasons for it. But I guess that doesn't matter since you just don't give a $#@!.

And really, why such an aggressive stance anyway?

Because it was a stupid ass move that cost the Steelers a legitimate chance to tie the game. Blake Bortles and the Jaguars offense were quite likely to throw up on themselves if you pin them inside the 25 with 2.18 to go and the Steelers holding two time outs. Hostile crowd in full throat.

You wont find one current or former head coach that will validate that onsides kick in that situation. You basically were playing a lottery ticket the moment you went down that road.

And oh yeah, Tomlin's Steelers don't do onside kicks! :doh: Not successfully since 2007 anyway.When you stop and think about it they don't ever even come close when they try onsides kicks! Some teams do them and it scares the crap out of you and you hold your breath until the whistle. ( Ravens), even if they don't succeed. But every time the Steelers try one it's a disjointed cluster fuck. So unless it's a complete necessity or if it's comes with an element of surprise in a game where the Steelers need to change game momentum I don't care to see it.

Kinda think they've made a few more defensive stops than onsides kicks in the Tomlin era. :coffee:

[zulater]

So it's ok to point out specific mistakes that Ben makes during a game and state how that cost the Steelers the game, but oh God don't dare point out when the head coach makes a bone headed move?

[Born2Steel]

Doesn't matter. No context may be used now. Just the, 'I'm right , you're wrong', I don't care.

If you read, I said I'm not a fan of the onsides kick. Not defending it.

[zulater]

Doesn't matter. No context may be used now. Just the, 'I'm right , you're wrong', I don't care.

If you read, I said I'm not a fan of the onsides kick. Not defending it.

Correct context is always relevant. But I can find you dozens of games where an offense ran it up and down the field all day, but when put in 4 minute offensive mode to preserve a lead they came up short . Again go back to the Steelers -Patriots game a month before when the Steelers played it too close to the vest and punted after a 3 and out. And guess what, that was the only effing 3 and out the Steelers had that entire game! So that excuse of Tomlin's decision goes right out the window! Guess Bellichick should have kicked it onsides with 3.40 to go? Would have been the smart play since the Steelers hadn't gone 3 and out all game!

Sorry I'm not trying to be a dick. But it's all about game dynamics. The Steelers hadn't gone 3 and out all game agianst the Patriots. But the game dynamic changed. So claiming the Steelers had little chance to hold the Jaguars to a 3 and out, or force a punt with enough time to score just doesn't wash with me.

[86WARD]

Nope...it’s not about the context...you’re missing the point. Noll made the call because of exactly what you said...balls move. Tomlin made the call because of a very similar unsuccessful situation. Bortles dominated the Steelers all day. There wasn’t even a little sign that the defense could do anything to stop the Jags. He made an aggressive call. I don’t necessarily agree with it but if you can’t understand why he made the call, there’s no helping you...you can’t win being conservative. Cowher made an aggressive call and was praised for it...it was successful. Tomlin made an aggressive call...you don’t know that if that’s executed correctly that it isn’t successful. Boswell and Danny Smiths special teams screwed the pooch...but since it was unsuccessful, Tomlin is an idiot...lol.

No one was calling him an idiot when he beat the Chargers on an aggressive call...lol.

People on this board complain non-stop that when the Steelers have a lead, they go conservative...everyone wants them to be aggressive...lol.

Aggressive coaches win. Conservative coaches lose.

ie) Doug Pederson. Super Bowl LII Champion.

[86WARD]

Lol...perfect timing...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/05/doug-pederson-coaching-conservatively-is-a-good-way-to-go-8-8/

[zulater]

Nope...it’s not about the context...you’re missing the point. Noll made the call because of exactly what you said...balls move. Tomlin made the call because of a very similar unsuccessful situation. Bortles dominated the Steelers all day. There wasn’t even a little sign that the defense could do anything to stop the Jags. He made an aggressive call. I don’t necessarily agree with it but if you can’t understand why he made the call, there’s no helping you...you can’t win being conservative. Cowher made an aggressive call and was praised for it...it was successful. Tomlin made an aggressive call...you don’t know that if that’s executed correctly that it isn’t successful. Boswell and Danny Smiths special teams screwed the pooch...but since it was unsuccessful, Tomlin is an idiot...lol.

No one was calling him an idiot when he beat the Chargers on an aggressive call...lol.

People on this board complain non-stop that when the Steelers have a lead, they go conservative...everyone wants them to be aggressive...lol.

Aggressive coaches win. Conservative coaches lose.

ie) Doug Pederson. Super Bowl LII Champion.

The Steelers did in fact force 4 punts against the Jags. Twice the Jaguars were held to very brief series with the Steelers breathing down their neck in the 3rd quarter. So yeah there was more than ample evidence that the had the Jaguars been forced to win the game by getting 2 first downs they would have come up short. Hell the Steelers defense might not have even had to make a play. A Jaguars penalty, or Bortles short arms a pass to a open receiver etc...bad offenses have good games, but tend to reveal themselves in the most critical moments. Give them a chance to beat themselves good chance they would have.

Again not hindsight. Every factor to consider going in weighed heavily in kicking it away and trying to get the ball back with time on the clock.

And again Cowher's onside's kick doesn't even belong in the conversation. It was either to open the 2nd half or early in the 3rd quarter and the Cowboys had no clue it was coming and were aligned for the Steelers to kick deep.

And if you're dismissing the Steelers decade long inability to successfully field their own onsides kick into the equation then big lol at you! Ridiculous!

There's a huge difference between aggressive and stupid.



Doug Perderson was aggressive and I commend him. I also commend
Tomlin when he goes for it on 4th down ( more often than not)as long as the play call isn't some dumb ass play where the running back gets the ball 8 yards behind the line and
runs wide on 4th and an inch. I also commend Tomlin when he doesn't turtle with the lead. I'm not a Tomlin basher. I'm not asking for him to be fired. I just think that was a terrible decision. Same with running the clock to the last second on the final drive. It's past and we live with it. But never will I knuckle unde to the bullshit that the call wasn't dumb as hell.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers did in fact force 4 punts against the Jags. Twice the Jaguars were held to very brief series with the Steelers breathing down their neck in the 3rd quarter. So yeah there was more than ample evidence that the had the Jaguars been forced to win the game by getting 2 first downs they would have come up short. Hell the Steelers defense might not have even had to make a play. A Jaguars penalty, or Bortles short arms a pass to a open receiver etc...bad offenses have good games, but tend to reveal themselves in the most critical moments. Give them a chance to beat themselves good chance they would have.

Again not hindsight. Every factor to consider going in weighed heavily in kicking it away and trying to get the ball back with time on the clock.

And again Cowher's onside's kick doesn't even belong in the conversation. It was either to open the 2nd half or early in the 3rd quarter and the Cowboys had no clue it was coming and were aligned for the Steelers to kick deep.

And if you're dismissing the Steelers decade long inability to successfully field their own onsides kick into the equation then big lol at you! Ridiculous!

There's a huge difference between aggressive and stupid.



Doug Perderson was aggressive and I commend him. I also commend
Tomlin when he goes for it on 4th down ( more often than not)as long as the play call isn't some dumb ass play where the running back gets the ball 8 yards behind the line and
runs wide on 4th and an inch. I also commend Tomlin when he doesn't turtle with the lead. I'm not a Tomlin basher. I'm not asking for him to be fired. I just think that was a terrible decision. Same with running the clock to the last second on the final drive. It's past and we live with it. But never will I knuckle unde to the bullshit that the call wasn't dumb as hell.

Don't you kinda want to have it both ways? An aggressive coach that goes for it on 4th down, makes gutsy calls to get game-clinching 1st downs in the 4th quarter, etc but then want to retain the ability to determine after the fact where the line between aggressive and stupid is? I mean I figure that line is a moving target based on the outcome of the play/game.

WR pass to Brady doesn't work and it kinda looks dumb (offense was moving the ball with relative ease). TE end around pass to Foles works and it looks like the idea of an aggressive play-calling genius.

THe decade long stat for onsides kicks doesn't do much for me either. Boswell wasn't the guy kicking the ball for almost all of that time. Almost every single person on the special teams "hands" unit wasn't even on the roster for most of that period of time either. Lost in the entire discussion is Boswell just botched the kick. I remain convinced that if Boswell puts that kick where it was intended to go, Matakevich is the best positioned player on the field to get the thing, followed up by Chickillo. But we will never know, because Boswell failed to execute.

Bottom line, if the kick worked (BIG IF) the Steelers have the ball in the hands of the ONLY unit on the field that Sunday that had executed well for most of the game. Deciding my teams season, I would rather try and place the ball in the hands of Ben R and the offense than a defense that hasn't reliably stopped anyone since the middle of the regular season.

I also totally acknowledge that it is entirely possible the scenario yourself and others for kicking away could have played out. For me, I would rather have a HC that consistently makes the big time hyper aggressive call. Sure, it is gonna cost you a game but it is going to win you a few as well. But to be totally fair, I also don't think you should ever punt once you cross your own 40 yard line. I would almost always go for 2. And I would deploy the onside kick as a consistent weapon in my team's arsenal. These are several of the reasons why I am never going to be asked to coach a football team!

[BlackAndGold]

It's always been pretty simple for me...

Being aggressive and it works=genius.

Being aggressive and it doesn't work=fucking idiot.

[teegre]

Lost in the entire discussion is Boswell just botched the kick. I remain convinced that if Boswell puts that kick where it was intended to go, Matakevich is the best positioned player on the field to get the thing, followed up by Chickillo. But we will never know, because Boswell failed to execute.

:nod:

As I sad earlier...

A good kick, even if not recovered, does not put the Jaguars in FG range. (They’d still have to get a first down.)

Alas, the botched kick gave the Jaguars to ball already in FG range. (They didn’t even need to get a first down.)

[Born2Steel]

If that play is executed correctly and we recover the onside kick, we win this game, IMO. That tired Jags defense has to come back out there with no rest. I can see why some would rather kick it deep and make them punt, I get that POV as well. I think it was a good aggressive call. That said, I thought running Bell on a toss sweep on a 4th and 1 play was over the top stupid. But there are probably some that see that play as a good call. We're not ever all going to agree on this. We should have won that game and there are a few moments of regret in it for all of us.

[st33lersguy]

Why do some question the onside? It was the right call. Tomlin couldn't trust the defense to get the ball back if they had kicked off. If he did kick deep and J'ville ran the clock out, people would be criticizing him for not going for the onside

[Psycho Ward 86]

If that play is executed correctly and we recover the onside kick, we win this game, IMO. That tired Jags defense has to come back out there with no rest. I can see why some would rather kick it deep and make them punt, I get that POV as well. I think it was a good aggressive call. That said, I thought running Bell on a toss sweep on a 4th and 1 play was over the top stupid. But there are probably some that see that play as a good call. We're not ever all going to agree on this. We should have won that game and there are a few moments of regret in it for all of us.

Even though were all beating a dead horse here, onside kicks in the NFL are recovered about a quarter of the time. With as bad as this defense was playing, it definitely still had a better chance of shorting 1 offensive jaguars drive than it did of recovering an onside kick: http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html

[Mojouw]

Even though were all beating a dead horse here, onside kicks in the NFL are recovered about a quarter of the time. With as bad as this defense was playing, it definitely still had a better chance of shorting 1 offensive jaguars drive than it did of recovering an onside kick: http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html

I don't know about that. The Steelers would have needed the following:

1. Force a 3 and out.
2. Jags can't run much clock. Figure the Jags would've got the ball with under 3 minutes to play.

Looking at these summary drive charts (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/boxscore/NFL_20180114_JAC@PIT/) - the Steelers held the Jags to a 3 and out just once. And to under a 2 minute non scoring drive just once. So on 9 possessions (I'm not counting the one prior to the half or the one that resulted from the on sides) the Steelers accomplished the goals one time. So 1/9 * 100 = 11%. If you add in the 6 play 2 minute and 18 second drive and argue it fills the goals above that is still 22%.

Long story short, we can pull some reasonable math together that argues the onside kick )(@25%) was somewhere between slightly more than 2 times more likely to about 3% more likely than kicking away and banking on a 3 down defensive stop.

Does everyone feel any better now?

[Craic]

I don't know about that. The Steelers would have needed the following:

1. Force a 3 and out.
2. Jags can't run much clock. Figure the Jags would've got the ball with under 3 minutes to play.

Looking at these summary drive charts (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/boxscore/NFL_20180114_JAC@PIT/) - the Steelers held the Jags to a 3 and out just once. And to under a 2 minute non scoring drive just once. So on 9 possessions (I'm not counting the one prior to the half or the one that resulted from the on sides) the Steelers accomplished the goals one time. So 1/9 * 100 = 11%. If you add in the 6 play 2 minute and 18 second drive and argue it fills the goals above that is still 22%.

Long story short, we can pull some reasonable math together that argues the onside kick )(@25%) was somewhere between slightly more than 2 times more likely to about 3% more likely than kicking away and banking on a 3 down defensive stop.

Does everyone feel any better now?

I remember doing some research on onside kicks right after the game, and the stats were more like 12-15 percent of onside kicks work. That being said, The Steelers had something like zero percent chance based on past performance in the second half (or something along those lines) of stopping the Jags. Thus, the smart money was the onside kick, because, no matter what, the greatest odds were that the Jags were getting the ball and driving to score. So, might as well contest the kick as it a 85-88 percent chance we'd lose the onside kick and get scored on, but it was a 100 percent (or close to it) that we would get scored on if we kicked it away.

[Mojouw]

I remember doing some research on onside kicks right after the game, and the stats were more like 12-15 percent of onside kicks work. That being said, The Steelers had something like zero percent chance based on past performance in the second half (or something along those lines) of stopping the Jags. Thus, the smart money was the onside kick, because, no matter what, the greatest odds were that the Jags were getting the ball and driving to score. So, might as well contest the kick as it a 85-88 percent chance we'd lose the onside kick and get scored on, but it was a 100 percent (or close to it) that we would get scored on if we kicked it away.

I can agree with that as well. Even with the lower figures your research uncovered, and take 11% chance (at best I would argue - because I think your zero percent is the more likely #) the Steelers had of stopping the Jags and it is still lower than the 12-15% odds on recovering the kick.

They had no margin for error either way and I will always side with the more aggressive call.

To me, kicking away in that scenario is like when you have an amazing right handed relief pitcher in the game just mowing the other team down. Then a left handed slugger steps to the plate and the manager calls in the left hander from the pen and he serves up the homer. Sure. Sure. The lefty was the traditional (maybe) higher percentage play, but I'm rolling with what has been working. In my tortured analogy, the righty and the Steelers offense.

[Born2Steel]

Whatever the odds of recovering the kick, I still have zero issue with calling it THERE. Upon recovery, the Jags defense would have to come back out there, with no rest, having just given up a score. We had them on the ropes and ready for the knock out punch, just simply did not make the play. That kick wins the game if we get the ball. I refuse to fault the coach for seeing that opportunity and going for it.

We can quote stats, percentage chances, special teams woes, all that, all we want. Bottom line is that was a dog fight of a game at the end. If we kick off, make the stop, get the ball back, and score it, we win. If we recovery the kick, score it, we win. Don't make the stop, or don't recover the kick, we lose. Both choices are a gamble.

[zulater]

I don't know about that. The Steelers would have needed the following:

1. Force a 3 and out.
2. Jags can't run much clock. Figure the Jags would've got the ball with under 3 minutes to play.

Looking at these summary drive charts (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/boxscore/NFL_20180114_JAC@PIT/) - the Steelers held the Jags to a 3 and out just once. And to under a 2 minute non scoring drive just once. So on 9 possessions (I'm not counting the one prior to the half or the one that resulted from the on sides) the Steelers accomplished the goals one time. So 1/9 * 100 = 11%. If you add in the 6 play 2 minute and 18 second drive and argue it fills the goals above that is still 22%.

Long story short, we can pull some reasonable math together that argues the onside kick )(@25%) was somewhere between slightly more than 2 times more likely to about 3% more likely than kicking away and banking on a 3 down defensive stop.

Does everyone feel any better now?

Garbage numbers! Sorry again, the Patriots didn't force the Steelers into a 3 and out all game. That is until they kicked away after kicking a fg to get to within 5 points of the Steelers with just over 3.40 to go. By your logic Bellichick no choice but to go for the onsides kick.

Again it's a different game dynamic than the rest of the game. I'm done with the fucking arguemtn though. Tomlin's a fucking genius. Hopefully he onnsides kicks every time we score next season! :doh:

[Mojouw]

Garbage numbers! Sorry again, the Patriots didn't force the Steelers into a 3 and out all game. That is until they kicked away after kicking a fg to get to within 5 points of the Steelers with just over 3.40 to go. By your logic Bellichick no choice but to go for the onsides kick.

Again it's a different game dynamic than the rest of the game. I'm done with the fucking arguemtn though. Tomlin's a fucking genius. Hopefully he onnsides kicks every time we score next season! :doh:

Feel free to make it an either or if you wish. I have not said that anyone had to kick away or kick onside. I have consistently attempted to point out that there is as many stats and chains of logic on one side as the other. The issue is far from cut and dry. However, if you want to make it a stark distinction with no room for debate and be the sole arbiter of what numbers are and are not garbage - fine. Far be it from me to stop you. Notice, I never said you were wrong. I simply attempted (perhaps badly) to open a discussion that like most things, the issue is far from crystal clear.

Personally, if I was NE I would have kicked onside when I scored to pull within 5. Again, I have repeatedly stated that am totally biased in my stance on this. I wholeheartedly believe that NFL teams punt far too often, fail to kick onside frequently enough, and generally play to not lose rather than aggressively win.

For instance after I have thought about it some more, if I was Tomlin I would've put Haley through a wall for the play sequence he called after the Patriots scored to pull within 5. It was far too conservative and predictable on 1st down. Allowed the Pats to make a straightforward run stop and then put the Steelers behind the down and distance for the rest of the series.

[ALLD]

It's always been pretty simple for me...

Being aggressive and it works=genius.

Being aggressive and it doesn't work=fucking idiot.


A little more team discipline and fine tuning ensures a greater chance of success rather than the circus that the Steelers team has become.

[Edman]

Doug Pederson is everything Mike Tomlin wishes he could be.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Doug Pederson is everything Mike Tomlin wishes he could be.

Doug Pederson does not live in his fears...