My quick takes after 11 games.

[zulater]

1. Ben is still a driving force on this team. The "diminished Ben" narrative has officially been put to rest. ( I'm guilty here too :doh:) Ben might not be 100% at his peak but these past 4 games show me he's getting pretty damned close. The thought that Ben needed to be reigned in, that his pass attempts needed to be held under 30, well that sure as hell ain't the case now. Rather than hanging on to his every missed pass or poor read, ( Ben's always had warts) how about appreciating what he's doing right, and since the Jacksonville loss it's plenty.

2. The defense isn't even close to elite with Joe Haden down. Giving up too many "chunk plays" to be given that moniker. Yes they're improved. Yes they got some top tier talent ( Cam Heyward and Shazier , when he's not over running the play) Watt has the look of a real good one etc... But this team is going to go as far as their offense can take them when they go up against the Patriots unless Haden is back. We're going to have to beat them track meet style from what I'm seeing lately.


3. Pick up Joe Haden's contract for 2018! I've heard it suggested that the Steelers will allow Haden to leave after this season as a money saving matter. Well don't even think of it! The last 5 games Haden played the opposing qb rating to the receivers he covered was a league low 37.1! As was the case with Big Ben reports of the demise of Joe's game were greatly exaggerated.

4. The offensive line is rounding into top form again. Even without Marcus Gilbert the Steelers line is back to their 2016 form. Now if they only had a healthy blocking tight end!

5. Martavis Bryant and Ju Ju Smith will factor in to this years playoff run. Good or bad. They could be the difference makers this team needs when teams gang up on Bell and Brown. I think they'll both come through.

6. Vince Williams is probably the biggest surprise of the season. I was really worried about a major drop off with Timmons departure. Instead this guy has improved the position.

7. Artie Burns needs to pick up his game! Yeah being Capt Obvious here. :doh: But he's going to cost us our season if he doesn't figure his shit out soon! I would seriously consider benching him for one game to see if it would improve his focus.

[86WARD]

Couldn’t agree more with the quick takes. I was saying the other day that the way Haden was playing & is impact on this team if they decided to keep him and extend him beyond 2017 could be the equivalent of the Jerome Bettis trade or the signing of James Farrior...

[tube517]

Couldn’t agree more with the quick takes. I was saying the other day that the way Haden was playing & is impact on this team if they decided to keep him and extend him beyond 2017 could be the equivalent of the Jerome Bettis trade or the signing of James Farrior...

He's on a 3 year deal that gives the Steelers an "out" after each year, I think. I can't remember the specifics and I'm not a contract numbers guy, but I saw an article/tweet that said it was the equivalent of three 1 year deals or something like that?

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/31/salary-cap-implications-for-steelers-from-joe-haden-contract/

[Mojouw]

Cam Sutton may have something to say about all of this before this season is done.

He could factor in a Burns benching and/or whether Haden's cap $$ are pushed out of town to sign someone on offense.

BTW - great posting by Zu and a ton to think about there.

[steelreserve]

Cam Sutton may have something to say about all of this before this season is done.

He could factor in a Burns benching and/or whether Haden's cap $$ are pushed out of town to sign someone on offense.

BTW - great posting by Zu and a ton to think about there.

Wouldn't it be great if we actually had THREE decent cornerbacks so that if one gets hurt, we're not in the exact same position as now?

Also, I am thinking Gay has just about reached the end of the line, so we'll need someone to fill that hole too. Bottom line, I think we should keep Haden too even though he's not cheap. If we keep him until the end of his contract, that coincides with the end of Burns' rookie deal, so the money should about even out. Defense is now the key to making this team work again, and probably will be even more so if/when Ben calls it quits.

And yes, a lot of great points to think about here.

[Mojouw]

Wouldn't it be great if we actually had THREE decent cornerbacks so that if one gets hurt, we're not in the exact same position as now?

Also, I am thinking Gay has just about reached the end of the line, so we'll need someone to fill that hole too. Bottom line, I think we should keep Haden too even though he's not cheap. If we keep him until the end of his contract, that coincides with the end of Burns' rookie deal, so the money should about even out. Defense is now the key to making this team work again, and probably will be even more so if/when Ben calls it quits.

And yes, a lot of great points to think about here.

Oh, yeah. I would love to keep Haden and have it be an almost weekly contest for playing time between Haden/Burns/Sutton/Hilton and in a dream scenario an emerging Allen. I just know the cap situation sucks and I could honestly see the $$$ they are paying Haden be re-directed elsewhere.

[Mojouw]

A few other things to ponder:

1. The screen game absolutely killed the Steelers defense last night. Almost totally on the LBs too. Shazier got caught in the wash for one long TD - can't happen when he is in man coverage on the back. Watt in particular was repeatedly victimized and "suckered" into rushing and then Hundley calmly threw to the back behind Watt's rush. At least twice, a RB screen behind Watt's pass rush extended drives for GB. A better offense will absolutely feast on those types of things -- you all know who I'm thinking off. Visions of Lewis and Burkhead running free...

2. Did Sutton dress out for this game? At what point does he get some game reps? As good as Sensabaugh played against the Titans, he played like a guy who has been cut a few times against GB. Nothing terrible, just a few patches of trouble on executing assignments. Burns had his once a game mental lapse - a troubling trend.

3. Another note on Burns. As bad as his blown assignments are, the play down the sideline with Davonte Adams (the one Adams should have been called for PI on) shows why he keeps getting run out there. He ran with GB's best WR and just blanketed him like it really wasn't that hard. Like it or not, that kind of ability will get you a starting job in the NFL even if you tackle like crap and are mentally deficient.

4. The LBs need to get their screen game issues cleaned up. I've posted my thoughts elsewhere, and I may be wrong on where I am assigning "blame" but those can not continue to be free yards.

5. Martavis Bryant is still ludicrously (almost unbelievably) talented. He just effortlessly gets open. I mean it is like he doesn't even have to try. Which may, in fact, be his whole problem. Him, AB, and Juju all running at top form --- may never happen but it would be like playing a video game!

6. Mentioned by Collinsworth in the broadcast, but it is worth discussing on this message board as well. Are their new "standards" for Steelers OLBs? Are the days of 10-12 sacks each gone? In other words, have coverages and other responsibilities in the defense taken on a level of importance that means sacks are no longer the (only?) benchmark of success? Thinking about all the things that Watt and Dupree are asked to do in this version of the defense, what are reasonable measures of success? Should it be team pass rush (pressures + sacks) outside of the blitz? Or do we still need to focus on the individual pass rushing #'s? To be clear, I think that Watt and Dupree have a TON of improvement they need to make in their individual pass rush #'s and performance, but what are the goalposts? An interesting idea that prime Harrison and Woodley or Greene and Lloyd or Porter and Gildon -- may no longer be the "goal"...

[DesertSteel]

6. Mentioned by Collinsworth in the broadcast, but it is worth discussing on this message board as well. Are their new "standards" for Steelers OLBs? Are the days of 10-12 sacks each gone? In other words, have coverages and other responsibilities in the defense taken on a level of importance that means sacks are no longer the (only?) benchmark of success? Thinking about all the things that Watt and Dupree are asked to do in this version of the defense, what are reasonable measures of success? Should it be team pass rush (pressures + sacks) outside of the blitz? Or do we still need to focus on the individual pass rushing #'s? To be clear, I think that Watt and Dupree have a TON of improvement they need to make in their individual pass rush #'s and performance, but what are the goalposts? An interesting idea that prime Harrison and Woodley or Greene and Lloyd or Porter and Gildon -- may no longer be the "goal"...

I'm not sure I like this trend. I just can't get used to the idea of our OLB's dropping into coverage more than rushing the QB. I'd like to see Watt/Dupree putting up 10-14 sacks each.

[Mojouw]

I'm not sure I like this trend. I just can't get used to the idea of our OLB's dropping into coverage more than rushing the QB. I'd like to see Watt/Dupree putting up 10-14 sacks each.

Not sure I like it either. But if each of the down linemen get 4-6 sacks and the ILB get another 10-12 between them AND it doesn't require sell-out blitzes to get there -- then maybe I'm ok with it.

By my math, the Steelers are on pace for about 55 sacks. That falls out against previous league leaders as follows:

2016 - +7
2015 - +3
2014 - +1
2013 - between -2 and - 5 (Carolina had 60 and Buffalo had 57)
2012 - +3
2011 - +5
2010 - +7 (over a Steelers team that had 48)

IDK, but as much as I like and was raised to believe in bookend pass rushers from the 3-4 OLB spots - this team is getting a ton of sacks. So maybe all is well that ends well?

[Rotorhead]

I think one of the TD's Burns was beat on was Mitchell's fault. I honestly would replace Mitchell with Gay. Gay has lost a step and can't keep up with the WR's anymore, however he could play Safety, he is a solid tackler and shouldn't have an issue with letting ppl get behind him or taking bad angles like Mitchell seems to do more often. Plus he is not looking to make the killer hit all the damn time, he just wraps up and tackles.

[Mojouw]

I think one of the TD's Burns was beat on was Mitchell's fault. I honestly would replace Mitchell with Gay. Gay has lost a step and can't keep up with the WR's anymore, however he could play Safety, he is a solid tackler and shouldn't have an issue with letting ppl get behind him or taking bad angles like Mitchell seems to do more often. Plus he is not looking to make the killer hit all the damn time, he just wraps up and tackles.

According to ESPN, they already have! http://www.nfl.com/player/williamgay/2507220/profile

In all seriousness, Gay is simply too small. A totally unscientific quick survey based on listed starting safeties across the league at the beginning of the 2017 NFL season only found Lamarcus Joyner and Mathieu that were around Gay's size. 2 out of 64 is not a good sample size.

Although, you may be right and Gay could do it. BUt I am not sure an undersized 32/33 year old safety is really the direction this team needs to go...

[st33lersguy]

This team definitely needs Haden back, and yes find a way to bring Haden back pronto. Looked like the 2014/2015 secondary last night. They let a guy who entered with 2 TDs and 7 INTs throw for 3 TDs and 0 INTs. Also Hundley's passer rating currently stands at 73.3 even with last night's performance

Glad to see Home Ben is still on fire, let's hope road Ben plays better next week at Shitcinnati

AB is superman.

They better improve against the screen pass. The performance against the screen was unacceptable. Bellichick loves to have his RBs go out and catch passes out of the backfield and you better believe they will run the screen a few times against Pittsburgh

[tube517]

A few other things to ponder:

1. The screen game absolutely killed the Steelers defense last night. Almost totally on the LBs too. Shazier got caught in the wash for one long TD - can't happen when he is in man coverage on the back. Watt in particular was repeatedly victimized and "suckered" into rushing and then Hundley calmly threw to the back behind Watt's rush. At least twice, a RB screen behind Watt's pass rush extended drives for GB. A better offense will absolutely feast on those types of things -- you all know who I'm thinking off. Visions of Lewis and Burkhead running free...



The Eagles killed us last year w/the screens. I mean destroyed us 34-3.

[steelreserve]

I don't think sacks are the necessary metric for success in this defense. It's more important that we just have enough pressure to mess up the play, and we're pretty good at that even with just four guys now. A huge improvement over the recent past.

It seems like there are very, very few QBs anymore who can deal with even a little bit of pressure without losing their shit, and that the drop-off after the first 7 or 8 guys is a cliff. I don't know whether that's a result of modern offenses being different, or college offenses not preparing QBs as well, or just millennials being idiots. But it's noticeably different from, say, the late '90s when most QBs and even some backups were reasonably competent at it. Even the "Tier 1A" quarterbacks like Alex Smith or Andrew Luck or Matt Stafford will fall apart if you make them the tiniest bit uncomfortable - provided you don't leave some clown wide open right in the middle of the field.

Despite the inflated yardage totals, I think the level of QB play has gotten downright atrocious in the league, and somehow the more hype and importance they place on it the worse it gets. You have highly touted prospect after highly touted prospect who can barely even take a snap without jabbing himself in the eye with a fork. Just awful.

[Rotorhead]

According to ESPN, they already have! http://www.nfl.com/player/williamgay/2507220/profile

In all seriousness, Gay is simply too small. A totally unscientific quick survey based on listed starting safeties across the league at the beginning of the 2017 NFL season only found Lamarcus Joyner and Mathieu that were around Gay's size. 2 out of 64 is not a good sample size.

Although, you may be right and Gay could do it. BUt I am not sure an undersized 32/33 year old safety is really the direction this team needs to go...

I think we need to draft a Safety first next year, or pick one up in FA, but I don't think Mitchell will be here next season so use Gay as a stop gap or for backup. I would honestly rather have Gay back there than Mitchell, but I honestly have never liked Mitchell either, so I may be biased.

[Rotorhead]

Back on topic though, as much as ppl hate on JJ, he was key on that first drive. It also seems that our Redzone woes are a thing of the past, and that is just good news. We are starting to see what this team could be, just need to heal up a bit (Hayden and JuJu) and we could have a competitive game week 15.

We all should be glad we have Hubbard also, he is filling in very nicely for Gilbert as our OL didnt have much of a drop off, the one sack was on Ben (he should have just thrown it away) and he was comfortable in the pocket all game long.

[Shoes]

Good post Zu!


Cam Sutton may have something to say about all of this before this season is done.

He could factor in a Burns benching and/or whether Haden's cap $$ are pushed out of town to sign someone on offense.

BTW - great posting by Zu and a ton to think about there.


Sutton and Sanquez Golson are one and the same at this time. Hope he pans out.

[Rotorhead]

One last thing i just thought of, how about a big THANKS to the Cards for beating the Jags! If the Jags would have won out and we lose to the Pats, we would have went from the #1 seed to the #3 seed, now we can still lose one more (as long as we beat the Pats) and retain the #1 seed, or keep the #2 if we lose to the pats. A little more cushion never hurts.

[teegre]

1. Ben is still a driving force on this team. The "diminished Ben" narrative has officially been put to rest. ( I'm guilty here too :doh:) Ben might not be 100% at his peak but these past 4 games show me he's getting pretty damned close. The thought that Ben needed to be reigned in, that his pass attempts needed to be held under 30, well that sure as hell ain't the case now. Rather than hanging on to his every missed pass or poor read, ( Ben's always had warts) how about appreciating what he's doing right, and since the Jacksonville loss it's plenty.

2. The defense isn't even close to elite with Joe Haden down. Giving up too many "chunk plays" to be given that moniker. Yes they're improved. Yes they got some top tier talent ( Cam Heyward and Shazier , when he's not over running the play) Watt has the look of a real good one etc... But this team is going to go as far as their offense can take them when they go up against the Patriots unless Haden is back. We're going to have to beat them track meet style from what I'm seeing lately.


3. Pick up Joe Haden's contract for 2018! I've heard it suggested that the Steelers will allow Haden to leave after this season as a money saving matter. Well don't even think of it! The last 5 games Haden played the opposing qb rating to the receivers he covered was a league low 37.1! As was the case with Big Ben reports of the demise of Joe's game were greatly exaggerated.

4. The offensive line is rounding into top form again. Even without Marcus Gilbert the Steelers line is back to their 2016 form. Now if they only had a healthy blocking tight end!

5. Martavis Bryant and Ju Ju Smith will factor in to this years playoff run. Good or bad. They could be the difference makers this team needs when teams gang up on Bell and Brown. I think they'll both come through.

6. Vince Williams is probably the biggest surprise of the season. I was really worried about a major drop off with Timmons departure. Instead this guy has improved the position.

7. Artie Burns needs to pick up his game! Yeah being Capt Obvious here. :doh: But he's going to cost us our season if he doesn't figure his shit out soon! I would seriously consider benching him for one game to see if it would improve his focus.

1. :nod: As i averred for a few weeks, the Steelers are winning despite BB having played mediocre (and, when/if he ever played like his old self, we'd be unstoppable).

2. Haden might be the best free agent (on defense) that we've had since Farrior.

3. They'll find the money. Tomlin loves Haden... LOVES him.

4. The O-line started off slow (reading their own press?). Now, they are back in the groove.

5. JuJu will be the third-down converter/chain mover. Bryant will be the "splash".

6. Vincenzo is awesome.

7. I'll bet that Tomlin rips him this week. I expect more "controlled" coverage by Burns (less peeking into the backfield)... like we saw from him in the second half.

[Psycho Ward 86]

A few other things to ponder:

1. The screen game absolutely killed the Steelers defense last night. Almost totally on the LBs too. Shazier got caught in the wash for one long TD - can't happen when he is in man coverage on the back. Watt in particular was repeatedly victimized and "suckered" into rushing and then Hundley calmly threw to the back behind Watt's rush. At least twice, a RB screen behind Watt's pass rush extended drives for GB. A better offense will absolutely feast on those types of things -- you all know who I'm thinking off. Visions of Lewis and Burkhead running free...


not just Lewis and Burkhead. but also white, cooks, and amendola. the patriots always have an arsenal built for the screen game.

at least we wont have to contend with Martellus Bennett anymore since he just went on IR. so theres that

[86WARD]

In today’s NFL, you need three starting CBs. So to have Burns, Haden and another #2 CB isn’t a bad thing to dump money in to. It’s not a bad thing at all...