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View Full Version : Kozora: Antonio Brown Is The Greatest Receiver In Steelers’ History



polamalubeast
11-17-2017, 09:00 AM
I’ll be honest with you, Steelers’ Nation. I’m not sure if this even qualifies as a controversial statement anymore. Certainly a debatable one, if for anything, because we live in a world that debates over the shape of the Earth. But this isn’t a statement that was necessarily cemented after last night’s victory. Heck, you could’ve made the point before this season even began.

But a ten catch, 144 yard, three touchdown performance is as good a time as any to bring up the point. Admittedly, I wasn’t alive to see John Stallworth and Lynn Swann on a weekly basis. Maybe I’m not the best champion to rank the all-time greats. But Antonio Brown’s greatness is plain for anyone to see, regardless of if you lived through the Steelers’ dynasty.

Brown is the greatest receiver to ever put on a Steelers’ uniform.

No disrespect to the other greats. And they were great. Hines Ward, his smile, his attitude, his blocking. Stallworth’s speed and the numbers he put up in a run-first era. Swann’s grace and ability to come through with a clutch play when it was needed the most.

But Brown? He’s on another level. He’s all of those things (ok…minus the blocking). He’s the best receiver in the league right now. I don’t know what else anyone who remains unconvinced needs. The best route runner. The best work ethic and attention to his craft. And the best when the play breaks down, traits he’s put on display the last two weeks. He could retire today and be a Hall of Famer. Top at his position for years, Brown’s already worthy of a gold jacket.

read more

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/kozora-antonio-brown-greatest-receiver-steelers-history/#disqus_thread




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Hawkman
11-17-2017, 09:04 AM
He is saying from a quantifiable not necessarily from a qualifiable point of view. Don't get me wrong, I love AB, and I'm glad he's a Steelers, but the GREATEST for me, is Ward. He bled Black and Gold. He couldn't imagine playing any where else. Hell, he had a rule named after him. When he wasn't targeted, he when looking for someone to hit........just my opinion. A lot of AB, is about AB.

steelreserve
11-17-2017, 10:15 AM
Brown is the best receiver I have seen since Jerry Rice, no joke. Maybe some others have had a higher peak for a year or two, but not by much, and Brown has never had a "down year" or any sign of slowing down. Amazingly, he's only getting better as time goes on, which is a rare sign of a truly great receiver.

st33lersguy
11-17-2017, 10:25 AM
He's been incredible since 2013, hopefully he keeps it up for a long time

Mojouw
11-17-2017, 10:56 AM
I've made the argument before (not a very original one!) that Jerry Rice is the best football player ever. What he did and for how long he did it is simply amazing.

I'm not ready to have AB knock him off that pedestal yet -- but damn his #'s are insane.

I also can't get over the fact that a guy his size is basically Calvin Johnson open all the time. For those not familiar with my weird football terms that I only say in my head -- Calvin Johnson open is that you can catch any ball within 3 feet of you when covered by 3 guys or less.

polamalubeast
11-17-2017, 11:06 AM
For me, Jerry Rice is the best player in NFL history....It's going to be very hard for Brown to surpass Rice, but this is possible he become the 2nd best WR ever!

Let's hope he will not have a horrible QB after Roethlisberger's retirement but I believe Roethlisberger will play longer than the peoples thinks!

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43Hitman
11-17-2017, 12:04 PM
Brown is the best receiver I have seen since Jerry Rice, no joke. Maybe some others have had a higher peak for a year or two, but not by much, and Brown has never had a "down year" or any sign of slowing down. Amazingly, he's only getting better as time goes on, which is a rare sign of a truly great receiver.
Exactly how I feel about him. I'm not really old enough to completely remember the 70's teams, but I remember all of Jerry Rice's career and AB is the only one to come close to that level of play and consistency.

Born2Steel
11-17-2017, 12:08 PM
There have been a lot of GREAT receivers. Rice is #1 without argument. I don't know if I put AB at #2 yet, but he's in the conversation.

43Hitman
11-17-2017, 12:12 PM
There have been a lot of GREAT receivers. Rice is #1 without argument. I don't know if I put AB at #2 yet, but he's in the conversation.
Just curious, not looking for an argument or anything, who do you have a #2?

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-17-2017, 12:19 PM
Just curious, not looking for an argument or anything, who do you have a #2?

my 2 cents.....Don Hutson or Randy Moss

IMO, so difficult to compare guys from different era's and todays NFL is just a stat generator for WR's. All things being equal, I think you put Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Larry Fitzgerald with Ben this long and I think they put up numbers like AB.

86WARD
11-17-2017, 12:20 PM
year to year comparison, Brown is the greatest WR ever...however, as a career, Rice has him beat as of now. Rice had longevity. If AB can sustain and decline at a low rate like Rice did, he may get him...thing for most WRs is they just flat disappear. Brown isn’t “Most WRs” though. He’s clearly different.

Back to the Steelers though...I would LOVE to see Stallworth in today’s game. Out of all the players from the 70s, I think Stallworth is one that succeeded then and would succeed in today’s game as well.

GBMelBlount
11-17-2017, 12:22 PM
If AB performs at his current level for a few more years he can legitimately be in the conversation of the best receiver ever.

Born2Steel
11-17-2017, 12:47 PM
Just curious, not looking for an argument or anything, who do you have a #2?

That's tough to narrow down. Different eras, systems, QBs, the usual banter. I like Isaac Bruce(Memphis guy), Tim Brown, Larry Fitzgerald, and/or Marvin Harrison. Moss and Owens have the numbers to be in the conversation too, just not for me personally. Owens due to not being a good teammate, and Moss because he never stuck with a team. AB slides into the conversation for me because he has spent his entire career here, and consistently puts up competitive numbers. So really, AB, or any of the other guys I mentioned, could fit in at #2 without much argument from me.

Without his size, was Calvin Johnson really a dominant WR? I know, we could say the same for size or speed, but was he really a complete WR.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-17-2017, 12:49 PM
Back to the Steelers though...I would LOVE to see Stallworth in today’s game. Out of all the players from the 70s, I think Stallworth is one that succeeded then and would succeed in today’s game as well.

I agree, I think Stallworth is the best WR in Steelers history. AB is making his case, but its difficult to compare the 2 era's. Would AB get manhandled, physically dominated and hurt in Stallworths time? Could Stallworth get separation from todays CB's that have been speed and strength training since they were 10 years old?

DesertSteel
11-17-2017, 12:50 PM
Two more years at this level and he’s #2 WR all time. It’ll take 10 more to top Rice.

AtlantaDan
11-17-2017, 12:56 PM
For me, Jerry Rice is the best player in NFL history

One guy was just as dominant and walked away while still in his prime at age 29


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD_sqMKZRmQ

With regard to the thread, IMO AB is the greatest Steelers receiver - his run over teh past several seasons is incredible

Thank you Mike Wallace for not signing the deal offered by the Steelers in 2012

polamalubeast
11-17-2017, 04:04 PM
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FrancoLambert
11-17-2017, 04:07 PM
Yep, as the best Steelers receiver. His skill set and athleticism are amazing. Throw in his work ethic, it's the icing on the cake.

But, John Stallworth at his peak, playing in today's game with today's rules.....you could make a valid argument.

Craic
11-17-2017, 04:31 PM
Two more years at this level and he’s #2 WR all time. It’ll take 10 more to top Rice.

And honestly, that's such a staggering fact (both of them, actually).

ALLD
11-17-2017, 04:55 PM
AB has Stallworth's workmanlike habits, but has made more mind blowing catches. Stallworth made some clutch catches, but nothing ever against his helmet. Swann was more acrobatic, but retired early because DBs like to head hunt him.

AB needs a couple of rings to go beyond personal statistics into legendary status. I have seen plenty of great players on stinky teams that only get honorable mentions in history. Once when they retire and once when they get a gold jacket. But to be best ever you need to be on a championship team.

BlackAndGold
11-17-2017, 05:37 PM
Agreed.

Also, I don't care for hearing about ring arguments, or how it is a different era. Greatness is greatness.


Brown will not catch Rice in terms of stats, the guy went from playing with Joe Montana to Steve Young ffs.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2017, 05:37 PM
Yes he is the best Steeler WR and that says a lot. Give it another year and sports media and all will be calling him the next Jerry Rice.

polamalubeast
11-17-2017, 05:48 PM
Agreed.

Also, I don't care for hearing about ring arguments, or how it is a different era. Greatness is greatness.


Brown will not catch Rice in terms of stats, the guy went from playing with Joe Montana to Steve Young ffs.



I agree that the ring argument is a horrible argument!

Rod Woodson has never won a super bowl with the steelers in his 10 seasons but Woodson is considered as a top 10 steelers ever.

Brown had his moments in the big moments too .... The helmet catch in 2010 against the ravens and the immaculate extension last year in christmas(with a playoff spot on the line) was two huge moment for Brown!

fansince'76
11-17-2017, 08:35 PM
All due respect to AB, but the greatest WR in Steelers history for me is still John Stallworth. He remained productive (when healthy) even when the Steelers were stuck with the likes of Mark Malone and David Woodley under center.

AB has had a franchise QB (even though he has started to decline) his entire career up to now.

Stallworth also should have won the MVP for SB XIV (and I've even heard Bradshaw admit that).

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/84/e3/f684e325250ae0833c00d2384b642d1b--steel-curtain-steelers-football.jpg

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2017, 09:04 PM
Some of you guys are going by man love and heck Swann was always my favorite and meant him. No question with talent and skills AB is the best. Stats prove it. He has been the best in the whole league for 4 years now.

steelreserve
11-17-2017, 09:08 PM
year to year comparison, Brown is the greatest WR ever...however, as a career, Rice has him beat as of now. Rice had longevity.

I mean ... Rice's best year statistically was still more than Brown's, straight-up. And that was at age 33. When he was 40 he had like 100 fewer receiving yards than 25-year-old Randy Moss that same season and equal TDs.

It's not just longevity, it's like, 10 years of being as good or better than AB has been in the last 5, and then another decade of being a top-10 receiver. "Longevity" doesn't even begin to describe it, any more than it describes the way Wayne Gretzky dominated hockey. I love AB, but good as he is, the comparison right now is still not even close.

fansince'76
11-17-2017, 09:11 PM
I mean ... Rice's best year statistically was still more than Brown's, straight-up. And that was at age 33. When he was 40 he had like 100 fewer receiving yards than 25-year-old Randy Moss that same season and equal TDs.

It's not just longevity, it's like, 10 years of being as good or better than AB has been in the last 5, and then another decade of being a top-10 receiver. "Longevity" doesn't even begin to describe it, any more than it describes the way Wayne Gretzky dominated hockey. I love AB, but good as he is, the comparison right now is still not even close.

Yeah, he's not even in Rice's ZIP code yet. 22 TDs in a strike-shortened year (12 games)? I mean, c'mon.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2017, 09:21 PM
Yeah, he's not even in Rice's ZIP code yet. I think Brown is more explosive then Rice was and I watched Rice from the get go of his career. Rice's work ethic made him and guess what Browns is about the same.

fansince'76
11-17-2017, 09:28 PM
I think Brown is more explosive then Rice was and I watched Rice from the get go of his career. Rice's work ethic made him and guess what Browns is about the same.

Yep, I saw Rice from the beginning as well. Brown has all the attributes, he just has to maintain it for another 10 years or so from now. Hence the "yet" in my comment.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2017, 09:34 PM
Yep, I saw Rice from the beginning as well. Brown has all the attributes, he just has to maintain it for another 10 years or so from now. Hence the "yet" in my comment. Yep like I said wait 1 more year and he will be called by the media the next Jerry Rice. Again I think Brown is more explosive player then him. Rice though was better catching the deep ball and was great at that.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-17-2017, 09:41 PM
Fan I'm out of here and cool to Bs with ya. Have a great night and weekend!

st33lersguy
11-17-2017, 10:07 PM
Let's see where he is at in a few years before comparing him to other WR greats. Let's see where he is at in 10 years before comparing him to Jerry Rice

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-17-2017, 10:31 PM
Yep, I saw Rice from the beginning as well. Brown has all the attributes, he just has to maintain it for another 10 years or so from now. Hence the "yet" in my comment.

Agreed, JR was just somebody that defenses feared and he just kept making catches and scoring TD's. As much as I love AB, William Jackson III held him in check vs the Bengals and every time the Patriots just bracket AB and he is kept to minimal impact. He has a long way to go before being compared to Jerry Rice IMO. Stats-schmats.....I saw both and as much as I disliked the 49er fanboys of the era, Rice is the GOAT.

86WARD
11-17-2017, 11:01 PM
That's tough to narrow down. Different eras, systems, QBs, the usual banter. I like Isaac Bruce(Memphis guy), Tim Brown, Larry Fitzgerald, and/or Marvin Harrison. Moss and Owens have the numbers to be in the conversation too, just not for me personally. Owens due to not being a good teammate, and Moss because he never stuck with a team. AB slides into the conversation for me because he has spent his entire career here, and consistently puts up competitive numbers. So really, AB, or any of the other guys I mentioned, could fit in at #2 without much argument from me.

Without his size, was Calvin Johnson really a dominant WR? I know, we could say the same for size or speed, but was he really a complete WR.

That “Owens was a bad teammate” story is fake news...if he was such a bad teammate he wouldn’t have been in SF for so long, received an extension in Dallas and had most of his former teammates say he belongs there...

86WARD
11-17-2017, 11:10 PM
I mean ... Rice's best year statistically was still more than Brown's, straight-up. And that was at age 33. When he was 40 he had like 100 fewer receiving yards than 25-year-old Randy Moss that same season and equal TDs.

It's not just longevity, it's like, 10 years of being as good or better than AB has been in the last 5, and then another decade of being a top-10 receiver. "Longevity" doesn't even begin to describe it, any more than it describes the way Wayne Gretzky dominated hockey. I love AB, but good as he is, the comparison right now is still not even close.

I’m not talking about Rice’s full career. I’m talking Rice’s first 8 versus Browns first 7.5. Brown is averaging more yards and receptions on a per game basis than Rice did. Its really the only stat you can use to compare the two through the first 8 seasons and It’s very comparable right now. If you want to include Rice’s 12 seasons that follow, then it’s not close...but that’s not really a fair comparison if you want to play the Brown vs Rice game at this stage. Rice had the longevity. He played at a high level throughout his whole career with maybe a little “lull”here and there but for argument sake, he was at the high level his whole career.

Butch
11-18-2017, 12:27 AM
The Greatest... is such a subjective title. I love the receivers we have had and AB is Great in his own right.
Ward played the position like no other, and took the WR role to another level. He may not have been the fastest or the flashiest of our receivers but his ability to hit defenders was 2nd to none and that helped get into their heads and take them out of the game.
Stallworth was perfectly described by Fansince76. I also like how Facenda compared him to Tennessee sipping whiskey. Smooth with a strong finishing kick.
Swann was at his best in the biggest games. He is the one who most draws comparisons with Rice. Not as long of a career, but played in a much more physical era.
AB is still young in his career but Great route running and ability to be the go to guy has made him stand out. Plays big in big games. A major difference is that he is late in Ben's career all the others came at times when their best QBs where in their primes, so that is also a factor.

The GOAT way to early and way to subjective. Still a great article and love reading the discussion.

Hawkman
11-18-2017, 12:56 AM
Best.......Greatest??? Two different things.

teegre
11-18-2017, 07:57 AM
When I used to watch Jerry, there were times when he seemed to be in a zone... and no one could stop him.

I’ve gotten that feeling with only a few other players:

-Larry Fitzgerald in the 2008 playoffs
-Randy Moss (every other season LOL)
-AB for 75% of the last 4 seasons

An analogy:
Do you want your filet mignon with a baked potato, scalloped potatoes, pan-fried potatoes, or mashed potatoes?

(i.e. the sides barely matter)

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-18-2017, 09:11 AM
The Greatest... is such a subjective title. I love the receivers we have had and AB is Great in his own right.
Ward played the position like no other, and took the WR role to another level. He may not have been the fastest or the flashiest of our receivers but his ability to hit defenders was 2nd to none and that helped get into their heads and take them out of the game.
Stallworth was perfectly described by Fansince76. I also like how Facenda compared him to Tennessee sipping whiskey. Smooth with a strong finishing kick.
Swann was at his best in the biggest games. He is the one who most draws comparisons with Rice. Not as long of a career, but played in a much more physical era.
AB is still young in his career but Great route running and ability to be the go to guy has made him stand out. Plays big in big games. A major difference is that he is late in Ben's career all the others came at times when their best QBs where in their primes, so that is also a factor.

The GOAT way to early and way to subjective. Still a great article and love reading the discussion.

Great synopsis. I agree that Swann seemed to show up big in big games, but so did #82 and he seemed to show up every day, even with Stoudt, Malone, David Woodley throwing him the ball in the end of his career. Jerry Rice showed up every game, big game and like Teegre said, seemed to be in unstoppable zones at times, which I think was just his determination and years of working on his skillset. As a fan, I still see JR as the best ever, Stallworth was the best Steeler WR IMO, Ward my favorite and AB is putting up a resume to get one of those ugly yellow blazers.

BTW, you had me with the sentence that included Stallworth, John Facenda and sipping whiskey. :coffee:

zulater
11-18-2017, 09:23 AM
AB has the looks of a first ballot HOF'er. It took Swann and Stallworth years to get in. Not sure that's the ultimate arbiter but it does give you a sense how they were viewed in their time. AB is going to be a first team all pro for the 4th consecutive year ( assuming he stays healthy). Combined Swann, Stallworth and Ward were 1st team all pro twice. Swann and Stallworth once each. Also AB has 5 pro bowl's to his credit, whereas Hines had 4, and Swann and Stallworth had 3 each. By all measurable stats AB runs away with it. ( best Steeler receiver ever) You could even make the argument that AB is tracking for being the best Steeler ever.

However there is more to it than just stats. I'm in agreement with several others on here who weighed in with Stallworth as the Steelers best receiver. Put it this way. He may niot have been the best, but he was the most talented. His skill set and physical tools would easily translate to today's game. In fact you could make the case he was born too early and also on the wrong team to display the full extent of his ability. ( sharing the field with the brilliant Swann, and being on a run first team).

Swann was also great, but he didn't sustain his peak for long enough to be considered with AB and Stallworth. But as an aside, no receiver I've seen could highpoint the ball better than Swann!

Ward was the all time grinder. A winner and a great player. But in this conversation he's 4th imo.

polamalubeast
11-18-2017, 10:49 AM
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He is very close too!

Born2Steel
11-18-2017, 01:04 PM
That “Owens was a bad teammate” story is fake news...if he was such a bad teammate he wouldn’t have been in SF for so long, received an extension in Dallas and had most of his former teammates say he belongs there...

I honestly have no idea what 'story' you're referring to. I said Owens was a bad teammate because he was. His ending with the Eagles proves that. The 49ers did not want him anymore when he left and neither did the Cowboys. I'm not debating his worth as a receiver, he was top tier, and ALL WRs are selfish, but Owens took that to a different level. He loved me some me, and made sure everyone around him knew it. He was a jerk and people did not enjoy playing with him.

st33lersguy
11-18-2017, 01:17 PM
All this talk about AB's greatness makes me wish for Steeldawg to be brought back

polamalubeast
11-18-2017, 01:22 PM
All this talk about AB's greatness makes me wish for Steeldawg to be brought back

I've never seen anyone being wrong about a player like him in a forum (not only on this forum!)

Count Steeler
11-18-2017, 01:47 PM
I've never seen anyone being wrong about a player like him in a forum (not only on this forum!)

It wasn't so much he didn't like Brown, he just dug a hole for himself with Wallace. Instead of admitting that Wallace wasn't that good, he entrenched himself and defended Wallace to the end. Of course his best line was "Wallace isn't paid to jump".

If Wallace had 1/4 the work ethic that Brown does, he would actually be a good receiver.

ALLD
11-18-2017, 05:01 PM
Not yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMxPAkZgoy0

Steeldude
11-18-2017, 08:50 PM
I will take Swann and Stallworth.

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All this talk about AB's greatness makes me wish for Steeldawg to be brought back

I think he moved on to where ever Wallace went. Steeldawg wasn't a Steeler fan.

fansince'76
11-18-2017, 09:15 PM
It wasn't so much he didn't like Brown, he just dug a hole for himself with Wallace. Instead of admitting that Wallace wasn't that good, he entrenched himself and defended Wallace to the end. Of course his best line was "Wallace isn't paid to jump".



I'm glad Wallace is gone now and, he will realize how good he had it in the Burgh after this season.

how good did he have it? The fans turned on him, we went to a dink and dunk offense, we finished 8-8 and he was making 2.9 million a year. Now hes in Miami, hes the man, and hes sitting on a 60 million dollar contract. Im just not seeing where hes going to miss being in the burg.



He's just lucky he was dealing with the Rooneys and not Kraft and Belichick - they would've cut him to the minimum $500k-and-some-change tender amount which the Rooneys had every right to do (but didn't) when he missed the June 15th deadline, and they would've done so without hesitation. He could've had it a LOT worse.

Pffft ya im sure as hes sitting in his mansion on south beach hes reflecting on how good he had it making 2.9 million in Pittsburgh. Puhlease, the situation he went to in Miami was a much better career move for him.



Career move? Word has it he went right out and bought a $600,000 Bentley. Wallace is one of those guys who will be broke within 5 years of leaving the league.

So he bought a Bentley you have no idea what he does with his money or what preperations he made for his future. Yes he made the right career move by going to Miami, unless you think signing for significantly less money to stay in Pittsburgh for another year would have been smarter.

:lol:

DesertSteel
11-18-2017, 09:44 PM
If Brown had a career ending injury next week he'd still make the Hall of Fame. Not first ballot but he'd get in at some point IMO.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
11-18-2017, 11:28 PM
If Brown had a career ending injury next week he'd still make the Hall of Fame. Not first ballot but he'd get in at some point IMO. Yep if they let Terrell Davis in why not ? I watched all the Steelers wr's over the years and some fans are just being nostalgic not admitting he is the best! He may be the 2nd or first best WR to ever play the game when his career is done.

Craic
11-19-2017, 12:18 AM
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He is very close too!

Interesting thing about those numbers. If Brown keeps playing at the rate he is for the rest of this season, he'll end up with 593 catches, 7956 yards, and 53 touchdowns. That puts him beyond everyone by a 30 receptions and 400 yards. The only place he would trail is in TDs, beating only Calvin Johnson.

86WARD
11-19-2017, 08:18 AM
Yep if they let Terrell Davis in why not ? I watched all the Steelers wr's over the years and some fans are just being nostalgic not admitting he is the best! He may be the 2nd or first best WR to ever play the game when his career is done.

I’m a Terrell Davis fan; that man shouldn’t be in the hall of fame.

ALLD
11-19-2017, 12:49 PM
I’m a Terrell Davis fan; that man shouldn’t be in the hall of fame.

Davis got in because he got the Broncos over the hump for back-to-back Elway SB wins.

86WARD
11-19-2017, 06:06 PM
Davis got in because he got the Broncos over the hump for back-to-back Elway SB wins.

Which really isn’t a reason to put someone into the hall of fame.

ALLD
11-20-2017, 07:37 AM
Which really isn’t a reason to put someone into the hall of fame.I think he got a tv gig like the mushmouth horseface TE from the Ravens.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

86WARD
11-20-2017, 11:31 AM
Another thing to remember, or keep in the back of your mind, Rice went from Montana to Young to Gannon (in his prime) to Hasselbeck. That’s a pretty nice run to f QBs. Not sure Brown will be that lucky.

Shoes
11-23-2017, 03:52 PM
Viking Adam Thielen is on AB's heels on receiving yards.

polamalubeast
11-23-2017, 03:57 PM
Viking Adam Thielen is on AB's heels on receiving yards.

Thielen is a UDFA and big chance he will be a first team all-pro with Brown this year!

Shoes
11-23-2017, 04:14 PM
Thielen is a UDFA and big chance he will be a first team all-pro with Brown this year!

Wow, didn't know he was a UDFA!

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-24-2017, 09:56 AM
Davis got in because he got the Broncos over the hump for back-to-back Elway SB wins.

Its the Gayle Sayers effect. He has 2 good season, 2 great seasons and then career curtailed by injury. But you are correct in that those resulted in 2 SB wins and likely got him over.

zulater
11-24-2017, 10:49 AM
Its the Gayle Sayers effect. He has 2 good season, 2 great seasons and then career curtailed by injury. But you are correct in that those resulted in 2 SB wins and likely got him over.

I'm fine with Davis getting in. Players can be measured in two ways. Peak value, and career value. When both are at a premium you have a first ballot HOF'er, i.e. Jerry Rice.. But when you have either one, career or peak value being through the roof that player deserves consideration for inclusion. Sandy Koufax, Gale Sayers effect one end, George Blanda, Bob Griese on the other.

A perfect example of peak value is Lynn Swann. His career stats are a joke as far as HOF status goes. But if you had an all time draft of every wr to ever play the game for their peak value not many would go before Swann. Same with Terrell Davis. For that 4 year window he was about as good as there's ever been. If you watched him at his best you'd be hard pressed to come up with more than 10 all time rb's that were better.

A similarly talented back who will likely never get a sniff of Canton is Billy Simms. The main difference between Simms and Davis is team success. But I don't begrudge Davis over Simm's omission. I think he actually emboldens his argument, and hopefully Billy will get consideration from the Veterans committee.

polamalubeast
11-24-2017, 10:54 AM
I have also no problem that Davis is in the HOF.

His peak was incredible, he won an MVP and he was one of the best playoffs RB in nfl history.

Look at his stats in the playoffs!!!!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviTe00/gamelog/post/

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-24-2017, 11:16 AM
I'm fine with Davis getting in. Players can be measured in two ways. Peak value, and career value. When both are at a premium you have a first ballot HOF'er, i.e. Jerry Rice.. But when you have either one, career or peak value being through the roof that player deserves consideration for inclusion. Sandy Koufax, Gale Sayers effect one end, George Blanda, Bob Griese on the other.

A perfect example of peak value is Lynn Swann. His career stats are a joke as far as HOF status goes. But if you had an all time draft of every wr to ever play the game for their peak value not many would go before Swann. Same with Terrell Davis. For that 4 year window he was about as good as there's ever been. If you watched him at his best you'd be hard pressed to come up with more than 10 all time rb's that were better.

A similarly talented back who will likely never get a sniff of Canton is Billy Simms. The main difference between Simms and Davis is team success. But I don't begrudge Davis over Simm's omission. I think he actually emboldens his argument, and hopefully Billy will get consideration from the Veterans committee.

I agree with you. I have no problem with TD either way. He had 2 years where he was just seemingly unstoppable and the best player on the field. Billy Simms was good IMO and belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the HOF. If he gets in, then you have to start putting guys like Wilbert Montgomery, Curt Warner, Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, Corey Dillon, all in the Hall, as I think they were as good or better than Simms.

zulater
11-24-2017, 06:03 PM
I agree with you. I have no problem with TD either way. He had 2 years where he was just seemingly unstoppable and the best player on the field. Billy Simms was good IMO and belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the HOF. If he gets in, then you have to start putting guys like Wilbert Montgomery, Curt Warner, Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, Corey Dillon, all in the Hall, as I think they were as good or better than Simms.

Simm's career ended after 60 games due to injury. But you'd be hard pressed to find many backs outside of Jim Brown who had a better first 60. 5106 yards rushing with a 4.5 yards per attempt with 42 td's on a team with little else. He also caught 186 passes and averaged over 11 yards a catch (terrific for a rb) with another 5 td's. Relative to the team he was on he was much better than any f the backs you compared him to.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-24-2017, 06:08 PM
Simm's career ended after 60 games due to injury. But you'd be hard pressed to find many backs outside of Jim Brown who had a better first 60. 5106 yards rushing with a 4.5 yards per attempt with 42 td's on a team with little else. He also caught 186 passes and averaged over 11 yards a catch (terrific for a rb) with another 5 td's. Relative to the team he was on he was much better than any f the backs you compared him to.

I remember Sims, but I cant recall I ever was interested in seeing a Lions game on TV to see Billy Sims run. While he was a very good RB, I just didn't see him as being special that would garner him inclusion to the Hall. Maybe someday he will as you say, but I don't see it.

Born2Steel
11-24-2017, 06:49 PM
I remember the days of Billy Simms. He was a fantastic player on a terrible team. He was Barry Sanders before Barry Sanders(Lions best and 'only' real player at the time).
If only looking at it from pure player vs player, Simms deserve consideration for the Hall. From a stat sheet POV, he was the ONLY player that seemed to make positive yards, so of course he got the ball every down(ala Sanders). I can see either side on that debate. He was the ONLY player worth watching for the Lions.

zulater
11-24-2017, 06:53 PM
I remember Sims, but I cant recall I ever was interested in seeing a Lions game on TV to see Billy Sims run. While he was a very good RB, I just didn't see him as being special that would garner him inclusion to the Hall. Maybe someday he will as you say, but I don't see it.

Simms is 9th all time in rushing yards per game with 85.1 yards per game. Throw in the 34 yards per game he averaged receiving, that's just short of 130ypg. Pretty heady stuff there. Also consider that the Lions twice made the playoffs in Simms 5 seasons and had an overall record of 33-27 in his 60 games.( we're talking Lions here! ) This with Gary Danielson and Eric Hipple taking the snaps! He was all that and more. If he didn't tear up his knee at game 60 he was a first ballot nominee.

Born2Steel
11-24-2017, 06:54 PM
Simms is 9th all time in rushing yards per game with 85.1 yards per game. Throw in the 34 yards per game he averaged receiving, that's just short of 130ypg. Pretty heady stuff there. Also consider that the Lions twice made the playoffs in Simms 5 seasons and had an overall record of 33-27 in his 60 games.( we're talking Lions here! ) This with Gary Danielson and Eric Hipple taking the snaps! He was all that and more. If he didn't tear up his knee at game 60 he was a first ballot nominee.

And there has been an Eric Hipple sighting.

zulater
11-27-2017, 08:04 AM
I think the conversation might be shifting as to whether AB is the Steelers best all time receiver to whether he'll retire as the Steelers best ever player period. I mean he's heading right to that table where Mean Joe, and Jack Lambert currently sit.

teegre
11-27-2017, 09:25 AM
I think the conversation might be shifting as to whether AB is the Steelers best all time receiver to whether he'll retire as the Steelers best ever player period. I mean he's heading right to that table where Mean Joe, and Jack Lambert currently sit.

If AB has a playoff run for the ages, specifically a Super Bowl MVP... Mean Joe will let him choose the appetizer.

tube517
11-27-2017, 09:26 AM
If AB has a playoff run for the ages, specifically a Super Bowl MVP... Mean Joe will let him choose the appetizer.

Mean Joe would jersey swap, A coke for AB's Jersey.

polamalubeast
11-27-2017, 10:07 AM
935008887450755072

zulater
11-27-2017, 10:40 AM
If AB has a playoff run for the ages, specifically a Super Bowl MVP... Mean Joe will let him choose the appetizer.


Yeah I could see that!:thumbsup: Of course Lambert might still try to steal his lunch money. :lol:

teegre
11-27-2017, 07:46 PM
Yeah I could see that!:thumbsup: Of course Lambert might still try to steal his lunch money. :lol:

Also, there’s no way that Lambert is sharing his dessert... with anyone. :chuckle:

Born2Steel
11-27-2017, 07:50 PM
Also, there’s no way that Lambert is sharing his dessert... with anyone. :chuckle:

Why is it that my idea of a Jack Lambert 'dessert' comes in an ice cold tall boy can?

teegre
11-27-2017, 09:06 PM
Why is it that my idea of a Jack Lambert 'dessert' comes in an ice cold tall boy can?

Add a jaw full of Red Man, and you pretty much nailed it. :lol:

polamalubeast
12-05-2017, 05:01 AM
937905775267237891

86WARD
12-05-2017, 06:06 AM
Lotta drops from him last night...very unABlike...

polamalubeast
12-05-2017, 06:07 AM
Lotta drops from him last night...very unABlike...

It happens when you miss 2 days of practice.....

Mojouw
12-05-2017, 10:07 AM
IT was also a pretty serious rain most of the game. Many players on both teams had uncharacteristic drops.

st33lersguy
12-05-2017, 10:18 AM
Still had a productive day even with a toe injury. Got cheap shorted in the head and still caught tying td

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-05-2017, 10:38 AM
Lotta drops from him last night...very unABlike...

True, you wouldn't have seen that from Jerry Rice.

tube517
12-05-2017, 10:53 AM
IT was also a pretty serious rain most of the game. Many players on both teams had uncharacteristic drops.

Nonsense. Richard Mann should be given a Ben McAdoo haircut and fired!

DesertSteel
12-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Lotta drops from him last night...very unABlike...
Really? One on-target drop is a lot? I guess when that equals the rest of the season's total that's the case. He now has two for the year. Badly thrown balls and pass interference don't count as drops, even though we're used to AB catching them anyway.

polamalubeast
12-05-2017, 04:44 PM
938173128911605760

Mojouw
12-05-2017, 04:45 PM
Nonsense. Richard Mann should be given a Ben McAdoo haircut and fired!

A Macadon't?

polamalubeast
12-06-2017, 08:45 AM
938299638930706432

HOF

El-Gonzo Jackson
12-06-2017, 10:23 AM
So 7 more All Pro seasons for AB and then he can be in the conversation with Jerry Rice ? Makes sense.

polamalubeast
12-10-2017, 11:23 PM
940085589696700422

tube517
12-10-2017, 11:44 PM
940087001771941896

st33lersguy
12-10-2017, 11:45 PM
Too bad WRs can't win Super Bowls on their own

ETL
12-10-2017, 11:49 PM
This is a post on the Raven's message board

When will this fucking owner, this fucking front office, this fucking coach and these fucking fans figure out that the difference in these late season Ravens/Steelers games isn't a CB, isn't even a pass rusher. Isn't loading up on defense. Isn't even pounding the rock. It's Antonio fucking Brown. Once again, Brown shines in the brightest moments and his counterparts falter. Last year, Perriman drops a TD pass. Pitta drops a TD pass and Waller drops the easiest TD pass of the night. Meanwhile, Antonio Brown fights off three defenders to score a TD. This year, Maclin can't even get two feet in bounds and Brown comes up with a clutch third down catch to basically end the game.

Stop trying to be this mundane run the ball/play defense team. Stop trying to figure out how to get a CB to cover Brown. Stop bypassing the inept shortcomings of the offense all season long, because they show up for the biggest game (Much like last year) to justify loading up on defense.

GO GET A MOTHER FUCKING ANTONIO BROWN. And since you won't get him in the sixth round at least until you find some goddamned symmetry among your coaching staff and offensive philosophy, that doesn't include 'Just not fucking it up for the defense', GO GET HIS ASS IN THE EARLY ROUNDS.

Jesus fucking christ!! How many fucking years do we have to see the games end the same fucking way before we wake the fuck up?!! How many?!! Somebody answer that for me. Somebody explain to me how a defense with Terrell Suggs, Brandon Williams, Eric Weddle and CJ Mosely wasn't good enough to hold Pittsburgh to less than 21 points in the fourth quarter, to the point that we had to load up on defense even more?!

It's not wanting Madden. It's not the defense will automatically go to shit. It's that little prissy assed mother fucker making plays in the biggest moments rain or shine, hurt or healthy. So stop fucking wasting everyone's time and go get you one.

teegre
12-10-2017, 11:52 PM
AB needs 456 yards to break the single-season record.

I’ll take tyecover. :nod:

st33lersguy
12-10-2017, 11:55 PM
This is a post on the Raven's message board

When will this fucking owner, this fucking front office, this fucking coach and these fucking fans figure out that the difference in these late season Ravens/Steelers games isn't a CB, isn't even a pass rusher. Isn't loading up on defense. Isn't even pounding the rock. It's Antonio fucking Brown. Once again, Brown shines in the brightest moments and his counterparts falter. Last year, Perriman drops a TD pass. Pitta drops a TD pass and Waller drops the easiest TD pass of the night. Meanwhile, Antonio Brown fights off three defenders to score a TD. This year, Maclin can't even get two feet in bounds and Brown comes up with a clutch third down catch to basically end the game.

Stop trying to be this mundane run the ball/play defense team. Stop trying to figure out how to get a CB to cover Brown. Stop bypassing the inept shortcomings of the offense all season long, because they show up for the biggest game (Much like last year) to justify loading up on defense.

GO GET A MOTHER FUCKING ANTONIO BROWN. And since you won't get him in the sixth round at least until you find some goddamned symmetry among your coaching staff and offensive philosophy, that doesn't include 'Just not fucking it up for the defense', GO GET HIS ASS IN THE EARLY ROUNDS.

Jesus fucking christ!! How many fucking years do we have to see the games end the same fucking way before we wake the fuck up?!! How many?!! Somebody answer that for me. Somebody explain to me how a defense with Terrell Suggs, Brandon Williams, Eric Weddle and CJ Mosely wasn't good enough to hold Pittsburgh to less than 21 points in the fourth quarter, to the point that we had to load up on defense even more?!

It's not wanting Madden. It's not the defense will automatically go to shit. It's that little prissy assed mother fucker making plays in the biggest moments rain or shine, hurt or healthy. So stop fucking wasting everyone's time and go get you one.

I remember after the draft when Ravens fans complained about the team passing on Juju. They spent all those resources to improve the defense to stop the Killer Bs and the D let the Killer Bs win the game

BlackAndGold
12-11-2017, 12:27 AM
940073104713191426

polamalubeast
12-11-2017, 08:36 AM
940089394052005888

GBMelBlount
12-11-2017, 10:36 AM
This is a post on the Raven's message board

When will this fucking owner, this fucking front office, this fucking coach and these fucking fans figure out that the difference in these late season Ravens/Steelers games isn't a CB, isn't even a pass rusher. Isn't loading up on defense. Isn't even pounding the rock. It's Antonio fucking Brown. Once again, Brown shines in the brightest moments and his counterparts falter. Last year, Perriman drops a TD pass. Pitta drops a TD pass and Waller drops the easiest TD pass of the night. Meanwhile, Antonio Brown fights off three defenders to score a TD. This year, Maclin can't even get two feet in bounds and Brown comes up with a clutch third down catch to basically end the game.

Stop trying to be this mundane run the ball/play defense team. Stop trying to figure out how to get a CB to cover Brown. Stop bypassing the inept shortcomings of the offense all season long, because they show up for the biggest game (Much like last year) to justify loading up on defense.

GO GET A MOTHER FUCKING ANTONIO BROWN. And since you won't get him in the sixth round at least until you find some goddamned symmetry among your coaching staff and offensive philosophy, that doesn't include 'Just not fucking it up for the defense', GO GET HIS ASS IN THE EARLY ROUNDS.

Jesus fucking christ!! How many fucking years do we have to see the games end the same fucking way before we wake the fuck up?!! How many?!! Somebody answer that for me. Somebody explain to me how a defense with Terrell Suggs, Brandon Williams, Eric Weddle and CJ Mosely wasn't good enough to hold Pittsburgh to less than 21 points in the fourth quarter, to the point that we had to load up on defense even more?!

It's not wanting Madden. It's not the defense will automatically go to shit. It's that little prissy assed mother fucker making plays in the biggest moments rain or shine, hurt or healthy. So stop fucking wasting everyone's time and go get you one.

:lol:

polamalubeast
12-11-2017, 03:26 PM
114 more yards and Brown is going to have 10 000 yards in his career before the age of 30 ... Very impressive!

polamalubeast
12-11-2017, 03:42 PM
I just saw Jerry Rice was at 9072 yards before the age of 30!

polamalubeast
12-11-2017, 04:25 PM
940326541933686785

polamalubeast
12-11-2017, 06:43 PM
Also,if Brown is a first team all-pro again this year, which is very likely, Brown will be the first WR since Jerry Rice to be an first team all-pro for a 4th year in a row!

86WARD
12-11-2017, 07:43 PM
If he’s not an All Pro this year...even if he played not another game this season, it would be ridiculous.

tube517
12-12-2017, 12:02 PM
http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/11/fellow-nfl-receivers-ask-for-mercy-from-antonio-brown/

Fellow NFL receivers ask for mercy from Antonio Brown

:chuckle:

polamalubeast
12-12-2017, 12:47 PM
940644950617796608

Born2Steel
12-12-2017, 03:13 PM
I agree with this thread title. Need proof? The Ben 500 yards game 3 times thread.

pczach
12-12-2017, 06:17 PM
This is a post on the Raven's message board

When will this fucking owner, this fucking front office, this fucking coach and these fucking fans figure out that the difference in these late season Ravens/Steelers games isn't a CB, isn't even a pass rusher. Isn't loading up on defense. Isn't even pounding the rock. It's Antonio fucking Brown. Once again, Brown shines in the brightest moments and his counterparts falter. Last year, Perriman drops a TD pass. Pitta drops a TD pass and Waller drops the easiest TD pass of the night. Meanwhile, Antonio Brown fights off three defenders to score a TD. This year, Maclin can't even get two feet in bounds and Brown comes up with a clutch third down catch to basically end the game.

Stop trying to be this mundane run the ball/play defense team. Stop trying to figure out how to get a CB to cover Brown. Stop bypassing the inept shortcomings of the offense all season long, because they show up for the biggest game (Much like last year) to justify loading up on defense.

GO GET A MOTHER FUCKING ANTONIO BROWN. And since you won't get him in the sixth round at least until you find some goddamned symmetry among your coaching staff and offensive philosophy, that doesn't include 'Just not fucking it up for the defense', GO GET HIS ASS IN THE EARLY ROUNDS.

Jesus fucking christ!! How many fucking years do we have to see the games end the same fucking way before we wake the fuck up?!! How many?!! Somebody answer that for me. Somebody explain to me how a defense with Terrell Suggs, Brandon Williams, Eric Weddle and CJ Mosely wasn't good enough to hold Pittsburgh to less than 21 points in the fourth quarter, to the point that we had to load up on defense even more?!

It's not wanting Madden. It's not the defense will automatically go to shit. It's that little prissy assed mother fucker making plays in the biggest moments rain or shine, hurt or healthy. So stop fucking wasting everyone's time and go get you one.




There are few things in life that capture the true rage inside of people and are simultaneously hilarious like a football fan blowing a gasket after a loss. :sofunny:

Hawkman
12-13-2017, 08:15 AM
:rofl:What a rant. I’m humbled.

polamalubeast
12-14-2017, 10:31 AM
941302160351936515

It's impressive, especially since Brown was a bench warmer in his rookie season ....

zulater
12-14-2017, 12:52 PM
941302160351936515

It's impressive, especially since Brown was a bench warmer in his rookie season ....

Those are all HOF receivers. Any doubt that AB is a first ballot HOF'er should be dismissed.