Ben Roethlisberger cannot throw deep

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ben Roethlisberger cannot throw deep

by Parker Hurley, Cover32

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/gKOXLJzW8SB3G432ckxLFQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW15O3c9NjQwO3E9NzU7c209MQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/cover32_362/92661071c62a2a9bdd360e1f187ac986

The Pittsburgh Steelers offense has not nearly been as successful as many had thought it would be at this point in the season. It has brought questions as to what the issues are. Is it a rift between quarterback and coordinator, is it the Martavis Bryant saga, or the shuffling of two superstars in Antonio Brown and Le’Veon Bell? What could it be? The biggest difference and the easiest way to look at why the Steelers offense has not been moving is none of the above. It is simply that Ben Roethlisberger cannot throw the ball down the field like he used to be able to.

Roethlisberger is now 26 of 78 throwing the ball 15 yards or more this season. That includes seven interceptions to just three touchdowns. For context he had 13 touchdowns to four interceptions on these passes just last season. His completion percentage is on track to hit a career low and is down over 12% from the season before. On Sunday, this issue put the team into a hole that almost cost them the game.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ben-roethlisberger-cannot-throw-deep-215714684.html

[Mojouw]

It is pretty much undeniable at this point.

The outstanding question is whether or not it is a deterioration of physical ability or some sort of mental hurdle.

[Born2Steel]

It is pretty much undeniable at this point.

The outstanding question is whether or not it is a deterioration of physical ability or some sort of mental hurdle.

Or...only AB can run correct routes and make ball adjustments?

[AtlantaDan]

No question it is a problem but for starters quit trying to force it on the first or second play of the opening series. IMO that gets both Ben and (usually) Bryant out of sorts.

[Mojouw]

Or...only AB can run correct routes and make ball adjustments?

That is very possible. In fact very likely. I strongly suspect the fact that Bryant has regressed as a WR due to his time away from the game and the fact that Justin Hunter has been pounding the final nails into his "fraud" coffin has a part to play in all this. I mean the game-plan against this offense is pretty easy. Double or triple AB. Let Bryant run deep routes until the Steelers actually make you pay on one. He doesn't really run other routes if you single cover him. So just stick a CB over there and tell him to turn and go at the snap. Don't cover the TE - that's where you want the ball to go. Finish it off by spying on Bell or sending a DB to run with him. Since Eli Rogers wasn't making anyone pay out of the slot - that wasn't a big deal. The emergence of JuJu means the Steelers have a slot option that can punish teams. Maybe this is the key to "unlocking" the deep ball?

I was talking with Zulater about it in another thread and I still contend that Ben doesn't look right when he throws the ball. He isn't hitting his back foot and driving the ball. Everything looks like he is just using his arm and aiming. Maybe he has the "yips"?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Crash says it's all Haley's fault...

[BlackAndGold]

Wonder if the lower body injuries have caught up to Ben?

[tube517]

Crash says it's all Haley's fault...

No Joe Thomas, no Mendy, no Sproles!

[Mojouw]

Wonder if the lower body injuries have caught up to Ben?

That would certainly seem to fit the evidence and 2017 1st half results.

[Hawkman]

That would certainly seem to fit the evidence and 2017 1st half results.

It almost looks like he's short arming. I'm not sure his shoulder is quite right.

[EzraTank]

On the long INT to start the Colts game Ben needed to throw it on the outside instead. But it's also up to Bryant to make that adjustment and move inside or at least break his route off and not let that get picked.

The title of the story should be Ben can't throw ACCURATELY deep anymore. He can still throw deep just can't hit his targets. I mean he almost threw the ball over the head of MacDonald on his TD and he had no one within 10 yards of him.

[43Hitman]

Or...only AB can run correct routes and make ball adjustments?


That is very possible. In fact very likely. I strongly suspect the fact that Bryant has regressed as a WR due to his time away from the game and the fact that Justin Hunter has been pounding the final nails into his "fraud" coffin has a part to play in all this. I mean the game-plan against this offense is pretty easy. Double or triple AB. Let Bryant run deep routes until the Steelers actually make you pay on one. He doesn't really run other routes if you single cover him. So just stick a CB over there and tell him to turn and go at the snap. Don't cover the TE - that's where you want the ball to go. Finish it off by spying on Bell or sending a DB to run with him. Since Eli Rogers wasn't making anyone pay out of the slot - that wasn't a big deal. The emergence of JuJu means the Steelers have a slot option that can punish teams. Maybe this is the key to "unlocking" the deep ball?

I was talking with Zulater about it in another thread and I still contend that Ben doesn't look right when he throws the ball. He isn't hitting his back foot and driving the ball. Everything looks like he is just using his arm and aiming. Maybe he has the "yips"?

I have some other evidence that may point to this as well. JuJu is a rookie so he has learned the playbook and runs those routes only, so he is always where Ben thinks he is supposed to be, he isn't improvising. Now look at Ben's QB rating when throwing to JuJu. It's off the charts good. I don't think that is an accident. I posted early in the season that I thought Ben was aiming his throws, and when he is throwing to anybody but AB and JuJu it looks like he's aiming the ball. I got a little push back on that, and that's fine, but I still think he's aiming the ball to the receivers he doesn't trust. Mainly anybody not named AB or JuJu.

[ALLD]

Ben can heave it, but his accuracy is off. He isn't throwing up a craptacular like Manning did in his last season, but we can see it. Maybe he will be lights out in the playoffs and he is saving it up for one last run?

[pczach]

I have some other evidence that may point to this as well. JuJu is a rookie so he has learned the playbook and runs those routes only, so he is always where Ben thinks he is supposed to be, he isn't improvising. Now look at Ben's QB rating when throwing to JuJu. It's off the charts good. I don't think that is an accident. I posted early in the season that I thought Ben was aiming his throws, and when he is throwing to anybody but AB and JuJu it looks like he's aiming the ball. I got a little push back on that, and that's fine, but I still think he's aiming the ball to the receivers he doesn't trust. Mainly anybody not named AB or JuJu.



Great point.

I think there is a lot of truth to what you said. It isn't a coincidence that JuJu gets inserted into the lineup and Ben starts lighting it up every time he throws his way, including throws down the field.

So much of playing quarterback is chemistry and knowing where your receivers are going to be.

It can't be a coincidence that Ben's rating when throwing to JuJu is off the charts. AB has gotten the majority of the attention of defenses, so JuJu is often in single coverage or has a two-way go on his release with no help on his routes. He is making defenses pay, and Ben has been using him and trusting him in the red zone. He has been helping the offense finish drives.

If he continues to light up defenses, he will draw more attention from defenses, and AB will be able to dominate. If they can just get a consistent deep threat that can adjust to the ball and run consistent routes, explosive plays are going to come in bunches.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The notion that Ben can throw deep, just not accurately makes his throwing woes even more confusing. What could possibly be going wrong with his body that lets him throw with power, but not accuracy?

^Actually asking the question, not being hypothetical.

In regards to Juju Smith-Schuster, he is the elixir for this offense if Ben can play like a borderline upper-quartile QB. Ben's QB Rating when targeting Juju is 144.2. For all of the problems he's been having, he's been damn near perfect when he goes his way. Of course with a bigger sample of catches that number will go down but undoubtedly he will still be effective.

[GBMelBlount]

It is pretty much undeniable at this point.

The outstanding question is whether or not it is a deterioration of physical ability or some sort of mental hurdle.

I wonder if the motorcycle accident finally caught up with him.

That was some serious trauma.

[SteelMayhem72]

It is pretty much undeniable at this point.

The outstanding question is whether or not it is a deterioration of physical ability or some sort of mental hurdle.I honestly believe he can still throw deep if he quit trying to aim the ball...his mechanics are off and he seems a little timid throwing. Its time for him to start turning it loose!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[SteelMayhem72]

That is very possible. In fact very likely. I strongly suspect the fact that Bryant has regressed as a WR due to his time away from the game and the fact that Justin Hunter has been pounding the final nails into his "fraud" coffin has a part to play in all this. I mean the game-plan against this offense is pretty easy. Double or triple AB. Let Bryant run deep routes until the Steelers actually make you pay on one. He doesn't really run other routes if you single cover him. So just stick a CB over there and tell him to turn and go at the snap. Don't cover the TE - that's where you want the ball to go. Finish it off by spying on Bell or sending a DB to run with him. Since Eli Rogers wasn't making anyone pay out of the slot - that wasn't a big deal. The emergence of JuJu means the Steelers have a slot option that can punish teams. Maybe this is the key to "unlocking" the deep ball?

I was talking with Zulater about it in another thread and I still contend that Ben doesn't look right when he throws the ball. He isn't hitting his back foot and driving the ball. Everything looks like he is just using his arm and aiming. Maybe he has the "yips"?This is exactly what ive been saying...his mechanics are off and he aims it. He looks very skittish in the pocket which will also affect his throws.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

This is exactly what ive been saying...his mechanics are off and he aims it.

Bingo. He seems to be "aiming" it instead of trusting his instincts.

[Craic]

The notion that Ben can throw deep, just not accurately makes his throwing woes even more confusing. What could possibly be going wrong with his body that lets him throw with power, but not accuracy?

I think it actually might be a loss of power, and Ben is compensating, having to use more of his upper body and even lower body than he used to. Since that is a different throwing motion, accuracy will be different. He may not even recognize he's compensating. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well.

[86WARD]

Bryant and Ben haven’t been close to the same page on their deep balls so I’m not convinced that Ben can’t throw deep. I️ think it’s quite possible that the majority of the misses are missed communication.

[Mojouw]

Bryant and Ben haven’t been close to the same page on their deep balls so I’m not convinced that Ben can’t throw deep. I️ think it’s quite possible that the majority of the misses are missed communication.

Ok - then what the hell are they doing in practice for 9 weeks?

I honestly agree that this is a BIG part of the whole thing. The maddening thing is that Bryant is still straight running by folks - they just aren't connecting.

[AtlantaDan]

Ok - then what the hell are they doing in practice for 9 weeks?

Missing many of them :coffee:

930544661881606144

Yesterday's miss was for what I assume was the only meaningful practice this week

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think it actually might be a loss of power, and Ben is compensating, having to use more of his upper body and even lower body than he used to. Since that is a different throwing motion, accuracy will be different. He may not even recognize he's compensating. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well.

that makes a lot of sense. i was in complete denial that Ben had truly lost his deep ball for most of the season but now im at terms with it. It's ultimately Haley's job to conform to Ben's old man limitations. It's such a joy to watch him not give any fucks whatsoever smh

[pczach]

Ok - then what the hell are they doing in practice for 9 weeks?

I honestly agree that this is a BIG part of the whole thing. The maddening thing is that Bryant is still straight running by folks - they just aren't connecting.


Maybe the question is.....What is Bryant not doing that AB and JuJu are in practice?

Maybe Bryant and Rodgers just continue to make too many mental mistakes. I think we have seen Bell's effectiveness in the passing game diminished and he has been making many more mistakes on the field because he missed training camp and preseason.

This stuff matters. Bell has been terrific over his career at not making many mistakes. He misses all preseason, and he is not the same player mentally on the field. Again, this stuff matters.

We know Bell can do it because we have seen it when he has the reps to prepare. If certain guys struggle mentally with the demands of the position, it is something that may not be correctable with those individual players. IF it's lack of effort or other issues.......oh well.

[43Hitman]

Maybe the question is.....What is Bryant not doing that AB and JuJu are in practice?

Maybe Bryant and Rodgers just continue to make too many mental mistakes. I think we have seen Bell's effectiveness in the passing game diminished and he has been making many more mistakes on the field because he missed training camp and preseason.

This stuff matters. Bell has been terrific over his career at not making many mistakes. He misses all preseason, and he is not the same player mentally on the field. Again, this stuff matters.

We know Bell can do it because we have seen it when he has the reps to prepare. If certain guys struggle mentally with the demands of the position, it is something that may not be correctable with those individual players. IF it's lack of effort or other issues.......oh well.

To add to that, just last week Bell posted a video of how exhausted he was and that he felt they were over working him in practice. The coaches may be doing that because they are definitely seeing what we are seeing in him, mental mistakes and those mistakes are coming from lack of preparation on HIS part. I just find incredibly hard to believe that coaches are just winging it and not having the guys be as accountable, it just doesn't make sense and it certainly goes against Tomlin's typical montra of putting your work on tape. Which includes practice tape.

[teegre]

Bingo. He seems to be "aiming" it instead of trusting his instincts.

I agree. One does not think about where the ball should go, one just throws it.

BB simply uncorks it to AB and to JuJu, but he thinks about where he’s throwing it when he targets everyone else... (probably because he doesn’t trust anyone else).

It’s sort of like when a soft hit comes back to the pitcher, and he has all day to throw it to first... and he overthrows it. (Whereas, on a bang-bang play, he throws a laser.)

[AtlantaDan]

Another article on the offensive woes

Roethlisberger is a mere 14 for 52 (27 percent) on passes traveling 20 or more yards in the air. Plus, just 30.2 percent of Roethlisberger’s deep passes have been deemed catchable by the game charters at Pro Football Focus; the rest of the league checks in at 37.5 percent.To be fair, the Steelers take more chances downfield than an average NFL team, but maybe they shouldn’t considering their receiversaren’t able to make plays on these passes. In fact, eight of those 14 catches are by star wideout Antonio Brown (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/note/a670dcc6-607c-4eae-9efe-3b4676d57f6d_note.html) with five more by JuJu Smith-Schuster (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/note/a670dcc6-607c-4eae-9efe-3b4676d57f6d_note.html), leaving the rest of Pittsburgh’s receiving corps a woeful 1 for 18....:jawdrop2:

And this isn’t something you can blame on the offensive line. In 2009, when Roethlisberger set a career-high 49.1 percent completion rate on deep passes, he was under pressure 28.2 percent of the time; that has dropped slightly to 28.1 percent in 2017. Time-in-pocket data is only available since 2011, but Roethlisberger isn’t being rushed to throw any more than he has in years past....

Pittsburgh has scored eight times in 48 passing attempts inside the 20-yard line (21 percent; league average is 23.5), compared to just 5 of 38 rushing attempts (10.4 percent; league average is 16). ...

The Steelers have converted on 42.4 percent of their chances inside the red zone; only the Colts are worse (41.7 percent)....

Since 2002, the average red-zone efficiency rank of a team appearing in a Super Bowl has been 11.6, with just eight of the 30 teams finishing the season below average (16th or worse). Three of those teams — the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2003 New England Patriots and 2016 Denver Broncos - went on to win the Super Bowl

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/11/13/steelers-offense-keeps-them-from-being-a-super-bowl-contender/?utm_term=.9fca31d87ddb

So the plan is to be the 2016 Broncos who did it with an aging QB? :noidea:

[teegre]

So the plan is to be the 2016 Broncos who did it with an aging QB? :noidea:

I was thinking the 2012 Ravens: a struggling QB who gets red hot in the playoffs.

[AtlantaDan]

I was thinking the 2012 Ravens: a struggling QB who gets red hot in the playoffs.

But apparently the 2012 Ravens red zone performance was not below average - I did not know that was a problem with the 2016 Broncos and Old Man Peyton until I read this article - that was why I used the 2016 Broncos (who had a great, not very good, defense) as a possible model

[teegre]

But apparently the 2012 Ravens red zone performance was not below average - I did not know that was a problem with the 2016 Broncos and Old Man Peyton until I read this article - that was why I used the 2016 Broncos (who had a great, not very good, defense) as a possible model

Good point.

I was only thinking about the QB position (and, I honestly feel that BB has a lot more gas in the tank than Peyton did).

[86WARD]

I watched parts of the Colts game again and I went and watched parts of the Lions game and Ben’s problems look plain and simple to me. It looks like he’s aiming the ball and forcing the ball. It doesn’t look like mechanics, it just looks like he’s pressing it and thinking too much. First half of the Colts game he’s doing that, second half he gains some confidence and lets it happen. If he was mechanically bad, he wouldn’t just bounce back in a half like that.

[DesertSteel]

I watched parts of the Colts game again and I went and watched parts of the Lions game and Ben’s problems look plain and simple to me. It looks like he’s aiming the ball and forcing the ball. It doesn’t look like mechanics, it just looks like he’s pressing it and thinking too much. First half of the Colts game he’s doing that, second half he gains some confidence and lets it happen. If he was mechanically bad, he wouldn’t just bounce back in a half like that.
Sounds like my golf game!

[ALLD]

All I can tell you unequivocally is that 2-pt. conversion and last drive for the winning FG was vintage BB. I had that same feeling I always had in the 1970s when I knew the Steelers would pull out a win. It was classic.

[tube517]

I watched parts of the Colts game again and I went and watched parts of the Lions game and Ben’s problems look plain and simple to me. It looks like he’s aiming the ball and forcing the ball. It doesn’t look like mechanics, it just looks like he’s pressing it and thinking too much. First half of the Colts game he’s doing that, second half he gains some confidence and lets it happen. If he was mechanically bad, he wouldn’t just bounce back in a half like that.

I agree.

Remember that Tomlin and Ben said that they were trying to make a real conscious effort to limit the INT's/turnovers this year. I think he's trying too hard to avoid INT's and it's making him overthrow so much. I think Mojouw was right that it's mental.

Kind of like a 2nd baseman overthrowing a routine out at first all the time. (For you Yankee fans, an example: think Chuck Knoblauch when he got moved to LF from 2B. That guy was just missing routine throws badly)

[Mojouw]

Sounds like my golf game!

If your golf game is anything like mine - I think we know Ben R's solution:

Hit the game about 2 beers in and have a few "maintenance beers" during the game to keep it all going well.

Or maybe that's just me. Gotta keep that aiming fluid topped off!

[86WARD]

If your golf game is anything like mine - I think we know Ben R's solution:

Hit the game about 2 beers in and have a few "maintenance beers" during the game to keep it all going well.

Or maybe that's just me. Gotta keep that aiming fluid topped off!

The Josh Gordon Cure.

[Hawkman]

If your golf game is anything like mine - I think we know Ben R's solution:

Hit the game about 2 beers in and have a few "maintenance beers" during the game to keep it all going well.

Or maybe that's just me. Gotta keep that aiming fluid topped off!

I'm going to try that tomorrow?:rofl2:

[Psycho Ward 86]

I agree.

Remember that Tomlin and Ben said that they were trying to make a real conscious effort to limit the INT's/turnovers this year. I think he's trying too hard to avoid INT's and it's making him overthrow so much. I think Mojouw was right that it's mental.

Kind of like a 2nd baseman overthrowing a routine out at first all the time. (For you Yankee fans, an example: think Chuck Knoblauch when he got moved to LF from 2B. That guy was just missing routine throws badly)


So what about the underthrows

[st33lersguy]

The receivers can't hold onto the ball and the OC can't call plays to save his life

[Craic]

Well, tonight, I wouldn't put it on Ben. He's throwing the ball pretty well.

[86WARD]

He had a couple bad throws but that’s normal. Seemed like he was out there playing Ben ball and chucking it and not thinking about it...

[Lady Steel]

Ben most definitely still has his mojo.

8-2!