Tim Benz: Big stats from Ben Roethlisberger not crucial for Steelers' success

[polamalubeast]

“Ben Roethlisberger is now just a game manager. He's an unimportant piece of the Steelers' success.”

That's how some will interpret what's to come in this column.

However, that's not the intended message.

Let's be clear in advance: The Steelers need a healthy and effective Roethlisberger.

If he gets hurt or plays poorly in the second half of this year or during the playoffs, the Steelers will fail to win a seventh Super Bowl.

Big Ben has not been at his best so far in 2017. But attempting to extract bigger passing numbers out if him over the final eight weeks is not the answer.

Roethlisberger is the 26th-rated passer in the NFL. He's 25th in completion percentage at 61.1 percent. Only four quarterbacks have thrown more interceptions. And 17 have more touchdown passes.

All that has impacted a third-down offense that is 17th in the NFL, and a red zone offense that is second to last.

“It can be frustrating at times offensively because we aren't executing the way that we want to,” Roethlisberger said after his team's win at Detroit on Oct. 29. “But we are winning football games.”

Offensive coordinator Todd Haley defended his quarterback before the bye weekend.

“There's been movement in the receiver group and the tight end group,” Haley said. “Some of those guys, he doesn't have a long history with. That makes you have to adjust and grow. And I think some of the inconsistencies you see from the outside are not what we see on a daily basis.”

But history shows Roethlisberger doesn't have to put up All-Pro-level yardage totals for his teams to be good.


read more

http://triblive.com/sports/columnists/timbenz/12918784-74/tim-benz-big-stats-from-ben-roethlisberger-not-crucial-for-steelers-success

[Craic]

QB stats probably tells less about the player than other other stat. Or, to put it another way, it is the stat that can paint the picture least like reality of any player's stats. That's why I actually prefer ESPN's Total QBR stat instead. In that, Ben is tied for fourteenth, which makes him a hair above average this year, and I think that's very accurate. It also helps point out that while we might complain about Ben, the fact is, he's still putting together an NFL worthy season.

Oh, and as for who we've faced. Interesting, that.

Case Keenum is ranked 5
Alex Smith is ranked 7.
Blake Bortles is tied with Ben,
Matthew Staffard is just two behind.

Add to that, that three of our games have been against AFCN opponents, and those are always tough games (except for the Browns) and that puts us facing only one team in a game where either they didn't have an average to good QB this year or was an AFCN rival. As such, I think the disbelief of our pass defense is a little overblown.

[st33lersguy]

QB stats probably tells less about the player than other other stat. Or, to put it another way, it is the stat that can paint the picture least like reality of any player's stats. That's why I actually prefer ESPN's Total QBR stat instead. In that, Ben is tied for fourteenth, which makes him a hair above average this year, and I think that's very accurate. It also helps point out that while we might complain about Ben, the fact is, he's still putting together an NFL worthy season.

Oh, and as for who we've faced. Interesting, that.

Case Keenum is ranked 5
Alex Smith is ranked 7.
Blake Bortles is tied with Ben,
Matthew Staffard is just two behind.

Add to that, that three of our games have been against AFCN opponents, and those are always tough games (except for the Browns) and that puts us facing only one team in a game where either they didn't have an average to good QB this year or was an AFCN rival. As such, I think the disbelief of our pass defense is a little overblown.

Well this year's game against the Browns turned out to be tough

[43Hitman]

Tim Benz stole our thunder, we've been saying the same thing here for weeks now. Welcome to the party Tim. :chuckle:

[vasteeler]

QB stats probably tells less about the player than other other stat. Or, to put it another way, it is the stat that can paint the picture least like reality of any player's stats. That's why I actually prefer ESPN's Total QBR stat instead. In that, Ben is tied for fourteenth, which makes him a hair above average this year, and I think that's very accurate. It also helps point out that while we might complain about Ben, the fact is, he's still putting together an NFL worthy season.

Oh, and as for who we've faced. Interesting, that.

Case Keenum is ranked 5
Alex Smith is ranked 7.
Blake Bortles is tied with Ben,
Matthew Staffard is just two behind.

Add to that, that three of our games have been against AFCN opponents, and those are always tough games (except for the Browns) and that puts us facing only one team in a game where either they didn't have an average to good QB this year or was an AFCN rival. As such, I think the disbelief of our pass defense is a little overblown.

Great post Pre... er Craic

[GBMelBlount]

We are blessed to have such a solid team on both sides of the ball that an average quarterback that fits our system can take our team to a Superbowl imo.

[pczach]

Everyone should be paying attention to what Drew Brees is doing this year. His stats are down, the running game is much better, the defense is much better, and they added some impact rookies in this last draft.

Sound familiar?

It's called winning football. Huge stats do not necessarily make a great quarterback or lead to winning.

[tube517]

Ben has never been a big stats guy.

Only 2 or 3 years really stand out - 2007 and 2014 (maybe 2009 when they had to play catch up with a crap secondary).

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Everyone should be paying attention to what Drew Brees is doing this year. His stats are down, the running game is much better, the defense is much better, and they added some impact rookies in this last draft.

Sound familiar?

It's called winning football. Huge stats do not necessarily make a great quarterback or lead to winning.

A good running game, a solid defense and an average QB that makes some plays........sounds like Cowherball to me. You might have to goto the box and feel shame for a couple minutes for that one. :penalty:

[pepsyman1]

I think a lot (not all) of Ben's issues this year have been tied to Haley's play calling which has been exceptionally poor this year. What Halley originally did was get Ben to take what was available and get rid of the ball. I see very few instances of that and Halley has gotten very predictable.

[pczach]

A good running game, a solid defense and an average QB that makes some plays........sounds like Cowherball to me. You might have to goto the box and feel shame for a couple minutes for that one. :penalty:


Is this what an internet spanking feels like? :lol:

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the stats won't always look great, even for a great quarterback, when there is commitment to the run and playing good defense. You sometimes see a lot of 3rd and longs, and don't get into a good rhythm as a quarterback.

I'm hoping that we're not really looking at a finished product here, and that the offense continues to develop and get more explosive as the year goes on.

Thanks for calling me out and trying to embarrass me! I feel so dirty!

[Born2Steel]

A good running game, a solid defense, and BB sounds like a championship caliber football team to me. Add in AB, JuJu, and Bryant, sounds like favorites to make the SB.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Is this what an internet spanking feels like? :lol:

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the stats won't always look great, even for a great quarterback, when there is commitment to the run and playing good defense. You sometimes see a lot of 3rd and longs, and don't get into a good rhythm as a quarterback.

I'm hoping that we're not really looking at a finished product here, and that the offense continues to develop and get more explosive as the year goes on.

Thanks for calling me out and trying to embarrass me! I feel so dirty!

Nah, was more a bit of sarcasm.

There is a good segment of the fan base that loaths the idea or running the football and playing good defense. I think its because a lot of them have a QB or WR in their fantasy team. But no matter how much some coaches, rules committees, league admin, etc tries to incorporate new gimmicks such as the Run and Shoot offense, H-backs instead of FB, West Coast offense, 5 wide formations, etc......if you can run the football and play good defense, you can win games and be successful.

Detroit showed last night and in other games what happens when you don't have a running game. In fact, one could argue that the Matthew Stafford era has been all about not being successful because of lack of a running game.

Ben just has to be good if the running game and defense are strong, but the reality is that the defense is still a work in progress and the run game is always an injury or 2 on the O line away from being a tough go. I'm just enjoying the probable final season of Ben at QB and appreciating that he isn't Flacco, Dalton, Kizer, Tom Savage, Brock Osweiler, etc.

[polamalubeast]

Nah, was more a bit of sarcasm.

There is a good segment of the fan base that loaths the idea or running the football and playing good defense. I think its because a lot of them have a QB or WR in their fantasy team. But no matter how much some coaches, rules committees, league admin, etc tries to incorporate new gimmicks such as the Run and Shoot offense, H-backs instead of FB, West Coast offense, 5 wide formations, etc......if you can run the football and play good defense, you can win games and be successful.

Detroit showed last night and in other games what happens when you don't have a running game. In fact, one could argue that the Matthew Stafford era has been all about not being successful because of lack of a running game.

Ben just has to be good if the running game and defense are strong, but the reality is that the defense is still a work in progress and the run game is always an injury or 2 on the O line away from being a tough go. I'm just enjoying the probable final season of Ben at QB and appreciating that he isn't Flacco, Dalton, Kizer, Tom Savage, Brock Osweiler, etc.

Detroit have not had a good running game since the retirement of Barry Sanders!

[polamalubeast]

927958416240336898

[Craic]

Nah, was more a bit of sarcasm.

There is a good segment of the fan base that loaths the idea or running the football and playing good defense. I think its because a lot of them have a QB or WR in their fantasy team.
The reason I think a good segment of the fan base loathes the idea is because 3-yards and a cloud of mediocrity is just that. The last time this team won a champion by running the ball was the first time this team every won a Superbowl. We went to the AFCCG 5 times with a run-first offense, and found ourselves at home for the next game every time. It's simple. Running the ball gets you to the playoffs, but it will win the playoffs biggest teams in the playoffs have offenses that are too potent and defenses that can stop the run (or, one side is so overly dominant that it doesn't matter.

[polamalubeast]

The reason I think a good segment of the fan base loathes the idea is because 3-yards and a cloud of mediocrity is just that. The last time this team won a champion by running the ball was the first time this team every won a Superbowl. We went to the AFCCG 5 times with a run-first offense, and found ourselves at home for the next game every time. It's simple. Running the ball gets you to the playoffs, but it will win the playoffs biggest teams in the playoffs have offenses that are too potent and defenses that can stop the run (or, one side is so overly dominant that it doesn't matter.

You can win the super bowl by being a run first team if you have a good QB.

The Cowherball with Roethlisberger in 2004 and 2005 have had great success with a record of 27-4 including the playoffs since Roethlisberger was a big threat for the big play in the passing game.

The Seahawks in 2013 and 2014 have almost won 2 Super Bowls in a row as a run first team.

[DesertSteel]

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the stats won't always look great, even for a great quarterback, when there is commitment to the run and playing good defense. You sometimes see a lot of 3rd and longs, and don't get into a good rhythm as a quarterback.

If there is a commitment to the run, why would there be a lot of 3rd and longs? The former should negate the latter. Especially if you have the best RB in football.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The reason I think a good segment of the fan base loathes the idea is because 3-yards and a cloud of mediocrity is just that. The last time this team won a champion by running the ball was the first time this team every won a Superbowl. We went to the AFCCG 5 times with a run-first offense, and found ourselves at home for the next game every time. It's simple. Running the ball gets you to the playoffs, but it will win the playoffs biggest teams in the playoffs have offenses that are too potent and defenses that can stop the run (or, one side is so overly dominant that it doesn't matter.

I love the label "3 yards and a cloud of mediocrity". :rofl: To some fans, handing off the football and grinding out yards isn't fun, its not exciting, its mediocre.

If Atlanta could run the football in the last super bowl, they close it out. If Seattle just hands it off to Marshawn Lynch, they win back to back Super Bowls. In football, you have to be able to run the football effectively to be successful....unless its the arena league.

As long as the O Line is healthy, Bell is healthy and the defense is good....Ben doesn't need to be great to win from here on out thru to February.

- - - Updated - - -


You can win the super bowl by being a run first team if you have a good QB.

The Cowherball with Roethlisberger in 2004 and 2005 have had great success with a record of 27-4 including the playoffs since Roethlisberger was a big threat for the big play in the passing game.

The Seahawks in 2013 and 2014 have almost won 2 Super Bowls in a row as a run first team.

Are we saying that Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostettler were "good QB's"? Good enough?

[SteelMember]

Ben has been labeled a "game manager" his entire career, so nothing new here. I don't mind throwing the deep passes to keep the secondary honest. It's just frustrating when it's on 3rd and short and he misses by a smidge all too many times.... I'm sure he feels the same.

[polamalubeast]

Are we saying that Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostettler were "good QB's"? Good enough?

Of course, exceptions can happen

[Born2Steel]

It comes down to who plays the best game that day. Good QB, Great QB, OK QB, doesn't matter as much if the TEAM is playing well. Right now, this team is playing well. Can get better, but playing well.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

It comes down to who plays the best game that day. Good QB, Great QB, OK QB, doesn't matter as much if the TEAM is playing well. Right now, this team is playing well. Can get better, but playing well.

Very true for the most part, but I would say that if you have a great QB, then you have a better margin for error if he isn't playing well. There is no doubt that talent at the QB position matters....one only has to look at Tom Savage this past week and Deshaun Watson 2 weeks ago to see what a good QB means to a single team.

[pczach]

If there is a commitment to the run, why would there be a lot of 3rd and longs? The former should negate the latter. Especially if you have the best RB in football.


While it's true that dedication to the running game tends to keep you ahead of the sticks......Just because you commit to the run, doesn't mean you are going to succeed with it on every down. If you lose 2 yards on first down, you're looking at a 2nd and 12. If you run again and gain 4 yards, you are still looking at a 3rd and 8.

That's why predominantly running teams often have a difficult time scoring touchdowns. An offense has to have great execution over a large number of plays to go all the way down the field and score. More plays means more chances of mistakes. Also, penalties make it much more difficult to overcome with the running game. You are then asking your quarterback to start throwing, and many quarterbacks struggle to do that if they have been run-heavy and haven't had a lot of attempts. Most chunk plays and touchdowns come in the passing game.

In many ways, this is the nature of football. Different offensive philosophies have different pluses and minuses.

[polamalubeast]

In the last 3 games, the steelers have pass the ball just 43% of the time....

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

And the yards per pass attempts has been 10.2 yards!!!

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-pass-attempt

It's CowherBall!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

In the last 3 games, the steelers have pass the ball just 43% of the time....

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

It's CowherBall!

Any idea what they are averaging per rushing attempt?? I bet its around 4 yards and mediocre. :chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

Any idea what they are averaging per rushing attempt?? I bet its around 4 yards and mediocre. :chuckle:

3.9

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-rush-attempt

[Mojouw]

Must be able to pass to establish a lead. Then you must be able to consistently run the ball to protect the lead and shorten the game.

Why is anyone still debating this? If you simply just run the ball a good team will beat you. If you just pass the ball a good team will beat you.

There are mountains of data to support this.

[Psycho Ward 86]

You can win the super bowl by being a run first team if you have a good QB.

The Cowherball with Roethlisberger in 2004 and 2005 have had great success with a record of 27-4 including the playoffs since Roethlisberger was a big threat for the big play in the passing game.

The Seahawks in 2013 and 2014 have almost won 2 Super Bowls in a row as a run first team.

The NFL is a completely different game pre 2009 to post 2009. Dumb rules like the defenseless receiver rule and increased emphasis on OPI have made passing the ball the near-definitive path to Superbowl success. The Seahawks slaughtered the highest scoring offense of all time in 2013 (and for the record Lynch ran poorly in that game, and Wilson compiled a 123 QB Rating). The Seahawks also sported one of the best defenses in 10-15 years to do so. We dont have those means at our disposal. In 2014 they lost against a guy who has made us our whipping boy since forever. And thats despite actually giving him some trouble throughout the game

[polamalubeast]

The NFL is a completely different game pre 2009 to post 2009. Dumb rules like the defenseless receiver rule and increased emphasis on OPI have made passing the ball the near-definitive path to Superbowl success. The Seahawks slaughtered the highest scoring offense of all time in 2013 (and for the record Lynch ran poorly in that game, and Wilson compiled a 123 QB Rating). The Seahawks also sported one of the best defenses in 10-15 years to do so. We dont have those means at our disposal. In 2014 they lost against a guy who has made us our whipping boy since forever. And thats despite actually giving him some trouble throughout the game

In the super bowl 48 between the seahawks and the broncos, Wilson had only like 80 passing yards when it was 29-0.

Also, you can win with a very good running game and a QB which is just good enough,,,,Two things that steelers need to be better on offense .... 3rd down and red zone, if they are able to improve his 2 things, they are going to be very hard to beat.

[43Hitman]

In the super bowl 48 between the seahawks and the broncos, Wilson had only like 80 passing yards when it was 29-0.

Also, you can win with a very good running game and a QB which is just good enough,,,,Two things that steelers need to be better on offense .... 3rd down and red zone, if they are able to improve his 2 things, they are going to be very hard to beat.

I would say nearly impossible to beat. If they fix those two things, they might break the NFL. Seriously, if you think of the cumulative affect(did I use that correctly?) that would have on the rest of the team, including the defense, I'm not sure how we lose. Minus huge meltdowns on defense, which we really only saw against the Bears and Jags and in hindsight that's a damn good Jags team.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

3.9

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-rush-attempt

3.9 yards and a cloud of mediocrity !! :applaudit: