Steelers Heated Battle For Steelers Annual ROTY Award With Half A Season Remaining

[polamalubeast]

The Pittsburgh Steelers are now halfway through their 2017 regular season and with eight games left to be played, two of the team’s 2017 draft picks have a nice battle going when it comes to the team’s annual Rookie of the Year honors, which in Pittsburgh is known as the “Joe Greene Great Performance Award.”

Entering the team’s bye week, outside linebacker T.J. Watt and wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster have both helped the Steelers tremendously in their first eight games and either one of the two members of this year’s class should be expected to win the annual “Joe Greene Great Performance Award” come season’s end. That award is given annually by the Pittsburgh Chapter of Pro Football Writers of America to the Steelers top rookie and is named after legendary Hall of Fame defensive tackle Joe Greene.


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http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/heated-battle-steelers-annual-roty-award-half-season-remaining/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Psycho Ward 86]

Watt is easily winning this one so far. Im very encouraged that Juju has the potential to usurp him

[DesertSteel]

I’d say T.J. but the gap is narrowing. I think JuJu can get 900 yards. If he gets 1000 he might win NFL OROY. Watt needs 10 sacks to win DROY, but it’ll be interesting to see which one takes team ROY.

[ALLD]

It was a good draft. Not exactly 1974, but time will tell.

[polamalubeast]

One of the best competitions for the rookie of the year of the steelers.

I'm also happy that our rookies have been contributing especially since last year.

[Edman]

One of the best competitions for the rookie of the year of the steelers.

I'm also happy that our rookies have been contributing especially since last year.

Great draft classes lead to big things for the Steelers.

1974 needs no introduction of course, but 2002 was a solid draft. 2002 alone in my eyes is the big contributor as to why the Steelers went to three Super Bowls in the years to come.

2016 and 2017 are looking stellar so far.

[86WARD]

Lattimore is having a great defensive season for the Saints. If he continues, it will be tough for TJ to surpass him...but he does have the Watt Story going for him...

As for the Steelers, if things continue moving in the direction they are, I see no reason they cant be Co-MVPs for the team.

I can’t find the rookie of the year history...have there ever been co-mvps?

[86WARD]

One of the best competitions for the rookie of the year of the steelers.

I'm also happy that our rookies have been contributing especially since last year.

Last seasons was pretty good as well between Davis, Burns and Grave Digger.

[pczach]

When you keep stacking consecutive seasons with multiple impact rookies......a monster is being created.

[polamalubeast]

When you keep stacking consecutive seasons with multiple impact rookies......a monster is being created.

And 3rd time in 4 seasons(with Shazier and Tuitt in 2014)

[teegre]

2002, 2003, 2004... foundation, DPOY, franchise QB.

2014, 2016, 2017... very similar (although different positions).



Watt is probably the Steelers’ Rookie of the Year... but, Lattimore is hands-down the NFL’s DROY. Lattimore has more return yards (on INTs) than he’s allowed from receptions against him.

[Steeldude]

I think Schuster is barely behind Watt at this point. Watt hasn't shown himself to be a disruptive force yet.

[Mojouw]

As for what not being a "force" yet, well I guess it is a matter of perception. I fully realize that Watt gets washed out on multiple plays a game and he often loses containment during his pass rush. But if the standard is "for a rookie"...how much better can be expected?

Against the run, there are only 2 OLBs with better stop rates (even accounting for missed tackles): http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/t-j-watt-proving-impactful-run/

Against the pass, he is doing things we have rarely seen a Steelers OLB be able to do in coverage.

He already has the same # of sacks that Khalil Mack had his rookie year in half as many starts.
Same # of sacks as Vic Beasley had his rookie year in half as many starts.
1.5 behind his older brother's rookie year.
On pace to tie Demarcus Lawrence's second year # of 8, after Lawrence had 9 tackles and no sacks in his abbreviated rookie year.
On pace to tie Demarcus Ware's rookie # of 8 sacks.
On pace to tie James Harrison's "rookie" starter year # of 8.5 (at age 29 I might add, after several years of NFL experience)

The only recent big name 3-4 backer that I saw that just makes Watt look like a lost puppy is Von Miller's rookie year of 11.5 sacks.

What exactly is the standard here?

[polamalubeast]

As for what not being a "force" yet, well I guess it is a matter of perception. I fully realize that Watt gets washed out on multiple plays a game and he often loses containment during his pass rush. But if the standard is "for a rookie"...how much better can be expected?

Against the run, there are only 2 OLBs with better stop rates (even accounting for missed tackles): http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/t-j-watt-proving-impactful-run/

Against the pass, he is doing things we have rarely seen a Steelers OLB be able to do in coverage.

He already has the same # of sacks that Khalil Mack had his rookie year in half as many starts.
Same # of sacks as Vic Beasley had his rookie year in half as many starts.
1.5 behind his older brother's rookie year.
On pace to tie Demarcus Lawrence's second year # of 8, after Lawrence had 9 tackles and no sacks in his abbreviated rookie year.
On pace to tie Demarcus Ware's rookie # of 8 sacks.
On pace to tie James Harrison's "rookie" starter year # of 8.5 (at age 29 I might add, after several years of NFL experience)

The only recent big name 3-4 backer that I saw that just makes Watt look like a lost puppy is Von Miller's rookie year of 11.5 sacks.

What exactly is the standard here?

His only standard is James Harrison at his Peak!

[43Hitman]

His only standard is James Harrison at his Peak!
And that logic is ridiculous. I know you're kidding but some fans on here legitimately hold him to that standard. That's why I don't engage those fans very often, they're squirrel bait in my opinion.

[Mojouw]

FOr anyone who is interested, here is the last 3 draft classes (2015, 2016, and 2017) of edge rushers sorted for sacks through last week's games.

http://pfref.com/tiny/lMaVw

Interesting that both Watt and Dupree look better than I thought based on that list...

[Craic]

So . . . 8 games into our season. I guess this is a good place to pick up my criticism of Watt from the offseason and reevaluate, along with Schuster.

Watt: After watching his tape, I had two main concerns with him. The first concern was that he didn't have the speed and strength necessary against NFL caliber players. The second was that OTs with decent to good mechanics would stymie him. I also had two main praises for him. First was that he had a motor that never quit. The second was that he seemed to have good football IQ. So, what do I think now?

Speed/Strength—I don't know if he worked on speed in the offseason or if the tape I watched just didn't do him justice, but he's playing fast. His speed is no longer a concern for me in the sense of what should be expected for an average NFL LB speed. I don't know about him chasing down RBs or WRs, but in all honesty, that's not what we drafted him for either. He's supposed to face them head on or just cover a zone. As for strength, the jury is still out. There are plays where it seems he dominates. Then, in other plays he looks as though he has little or no leverage. I don't mean he moves the guy back a few feet and then gets stopped. It looks as though he literally gets stymied. Of course, as I've said before, this area is the easiest to fix, and with his drive, I'm willing to be patient and let him put weight on a barely 20-something body.

Issues with OTs having Good Mechanics—This problem is persisting. The reason it doesn't seem so is because his motor keeps him going and he gets a lot of clean-up pressure or sacks as well as tackles for a loss. Of course, I am not going to badmouth a guy for busting his butt through the whistle on each play, so it's great to see. However, I'm still not happy with his ability to set the edge consistently or fight off OTs consistently. Perhaps this issue is a derivative of the strength issue. I think it's more a problem of ignorance as he is so new to the position compared to players that have played the same position all through college. That being said, it also means he can get better at it, and probably will.

Motor—He has actually shown even more of a motor in the NFL than in college, I think. He hustles on every play and as I said above, plays through the whistle on every play. I was dead on in this assessment.

Football IQ—Maybe, this should be Football Awareness. Even with all I've said above, he seems to have a nose to make plays. We can argue about "clean up sacks" and tackles, but many players would not be able to get the sacks and tackles for a loss he gets because he seems to know what is happening on the field around him even when he is tied up with an OT. That is something that can't be taught.

So, if I were to grade: I'd give him a B+ or A- based on his draft position and what he's brought to the team.

Schuster: I didn't say much about him, so I can't go off of previous criticism and compare. What I can say, however, is that we were told he had a good work ethic, liked to hit, and seemed to be the next coming of Hines Ward. Eight games in, we have seen flashes of Hines Ward-like plays. He rocked a LB, he's put a dagger in the opposing team when we needed it most, and what I like most is that he seems to have the proper attitude. I do wish we'd see a tad more consistent production out of him, but we also have to keep in mind this offense has perhaps the top two players at their respective positions in the NFL, both of which are positions that handle the ball.


If I were to grade: I'd give him a B to B+ based on his draft position and what he's brought to the team.


If you take draft position out of the equation, I think the divide between Watt and Schuster gets a little bigger as Watt is a continual producer on defense. Even when he gets washed out, you know that he's still lurking to make a play, and that's great to see.

Either way, both players look like they might be special. I think Schuster has the inside track on being a little more special because he seems to have all the physical tools and most of the mechanics for his position already. All he needs is experience. Watt is a bit more of a longshot to being a special player because getting there is dependent on his ability to get stronger and learn the intricacies of his position, rather than just experience alone.

[st33lersguy]

So far TJ, but Juju's arrow is pointing up

[teegre]

His only standard is James Harrison at his Peak!

Anything less than “James Harrison’s performance against the Ravens on MNF in 2007” is essentially the same as Jarvis Jones’s level of failure.

(There is NO in-between.)

[FrancoLambert]

When you keep stacking consecutive seasons with multiple impact rookies......a monster is being created.

And yet, when the discussion turns to GM's adroit at drafting, Colbert's name comes up...but not too quickly.

Ozzie, the drafting guru from Baltimore, gets more credit from the talking heads but when you compare recent drafts its no contest.

[teegre]

FOr anyone who is interested, here is the last 3 draft classes (2015, 2016, and 2017) of edge rushers sorted for sacks through last week's games.

http://pfref.com/tiny/lMaVw

Interesting that both Watt and Dupree look better than I thought based on that list...

Based on sacks alone, the Chickillo pick looks reeeally good.

[polamalubeast]

And yet, when the discussion turns to GM's adroit at drafting, Colbert's name comes up...but not too quickly.

Ozzie, the drafting guru from Baltimore, gets more credit from the talking heads but when you compare recent drafts its no contest.

And Ted Thompson is always ahead of Colbert in the rankings!

[pczach]

And yet, when the discussion turns to GM's adroit at drafting, Colbert's name comes up...but not too quickly.

Ozzie, the drafting guru from Baltimore, gets more credit from the talking heads but when you compare recent drafts its no contest.


There's nothing anyone can do about that. It is what it is.

I've always been a fan of Colbert. There just aren't many teams that are able to retool a team where they turned over nearly the entire roster over the period of a few years without having a losing season. You just don't see that happening very often. Ben kept the team respectable and carried the team for a few years, but now they are reaping the rewards of great scouting, having a great eye for talent, and figuring out how the talent fits the systems and schemes that they run. After that it's up to the coaches to maximize the players' talents, and adjust the designs of the offense and defense to get the most out of the players they have.

Colbert has been as good as anyone with finding players, and he does it without picking in the top 5 every year like so many franchises do when they are developing a roster.

He's underrated, and he's been killing it the last few years.

[SteelMember]

What exactly is the standard here?

ahhhh.... The standard is the standard. Now, take it back to the lab. :chuckle:

[steelreserve]

I may be in the minority, but for me it's JuJu at this point.

Watt is having an outstanding rookie year, but he's just one of several young players making the defense work.

JuJu ... if not for his emergence, the offense would still be in a world of hurt. I think he's been the bigger difference-maker to his unit in the short time he's been playing. Half a season to go to see if he can keep it up, but if he can I'd say he has it.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I may be in the minority, but for me it's JuJu at this point.

Watt is having an outstanding rookie year, but he's just one of several young players making the defense work.

JuJu ... if not for his emergence, the offense would still be in a world of hurt. I think he's been the bigger difference-maker to his unit in the short time he's been playing. Half a season to go to see if he can keep it up, but if he can I'd say he has it.

This thread would be hilarious 7 weeks into the season. The fact that its only begun to get interesting after Week 8 says everything about TJ's body of work vs. Juju's body of work.

If TJ is seen as just one of several young players making the defense work, then by that logic wouldnt Juju be scorned because our offense is doing so poorly?

All that being said, I think both of them are primed for big 2nd half finishes because of their work ethic and the soft schedule

[steelreserve]

This thread would be hilarious 7 weeks into the season. The fact that its only begun to get interesting after Week 8 says everything about TJ's body of work vs. Juju's body of work.

If TJ is seen as just one of several young players making the defense work, then by that logic wouldnt Juju be scorned because our offense is doing so poorly?

All that being said, I think both of them are primed for big 2nd half finishes because of their work ethic and the soft schedule


I don't think the poor play of the offense reflects on JuJu's case - more like the offense was sucking shit, they started giving him more looks, and there was a noticeable improvement. He wasn't really part of the original problem, but he sure looks like part of the solution. Not that the defense being the better unit overall diminishes Watt's accomplishments, but it does make it a little harder for him to stand out.

As far as their overall body of work, Watt was basically a Day 1 starter while JuJu had to fight for playing time, so of course Watt had a head start. Obviously if the season ended today, Watt would have been the more productive, but if JuJU continues at the same pace, to say nothing of continuing to improve, I think his season projects higher.

A great problem to have, in any case. Beats the dogshit out of arguing over Limas Sweed vs. Ryan Mundy.

[43Hitman]

There's nothing anyone can do about that. It is what it is.

I've always been a fan of Colbert. There just aren't many teams that are able to retool a team where they turned over nearly the entire roster over the period of a few years without having a losing season. You just don't see that happening very often. Ben kept the team respectable and carried the team for a few years, but now they are reaping the rewards of great scouting, having a great eye for talent, and figuring out how the talent fits the systems and schemes that they run. After that it's up to the coaches to maximize the players' talents, and adjust the designs of the offense and defense to get the most out of the players they have.

Colbert has been as good as anyone with finding players, and he does it without picking in the top 5 every year like so many franchises do when they are developing a roster.

He's underrated, and he's been killing it the last few years.
And you know what, I'm completely fine with Colbert flying under the radar. Keep them greedy ass teams away from our guy!! :drink:

[polamalubeast]

No matter who win, I am very happy that our drafts pick contribute at their rookie season!

It's important to have rookies who can contribute at their rookie season if you want to compete for the super bowl.

I mean, last year our pass defense was much better when Davis and Burns were on the starting lineup and this year I think JuJu and Watt will be very important to our success in the second half of the season.

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And you know what, I'm completely fine with Colbert flying under the radar. Keep them greedy ass teams away from our guy!! :drink:

He is under contract until 2020!

[43Hitman]

No matter who win, I am very happy that our drafts pick contribute at their rookie season!

It's important to have rookies who can contribute at their rookie season if you want to compete for the super bowl.

I mean, last year our pass defense was much better when Davis and Burns were on the starting lineup and this year and I think JuJu and Watt will be very important to our success in the second half of the season.

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He is under contract until 2020!

I think it's great too. When those guys can start and make real contributions their first year, I think it accelerates their growth into and during their second year.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I don't think the poor play of the offense reflects on JuJu's case - more like the offense was sucking shit, they started giving him more looks, and there was a noticeable improvement. He wasn't really part of the original problem, but he sure looks like part of the solution. Not that the defense being the better unit overall diminishes Watt's accomplishments, but it does make it a little harder for him to stand out.

As far as their overall body of work, Watt was basically a Day 1 starter while JuJu had to fight for playing time, so of course Watt had a head start. Obviously if the season ended today, Watt would have been the more productive, but if JuJU continues at the same pace, to say nothing of continuing to improve, I think his season projects higher.

A great problem to have, in any case. Beats the dogshit out of arguing over Limas Sweed vs. Ryan Mundy.

Watt may have been "given" the starting spot on Day 1, but like Shazier, he's earned it completely. Halfway through the season he has distinguished himself as arguably the best all-around edge rusher among all rookies. Juju can say the same at his position which is also fantastic.

I remember Ben had a 127 QB Rating when targeting Juju. That was before the Lions game, which is just incredible...That man needs to be fed. A great problem to have indeed

[Hawkman]

This is a GREAT problem to have......two major contributing rookies, only half way into the season.....

[teegre]

As Denny Green stated, when asked how he’d get Randy Moss enough targets, when the Vikings already had Jake Reed and Chris Carter: “It’s a good problem to have.”

[polamalubeast]

928276378616819712

[polamalubeast]

Watt may have been "given" the starting spot on Day 1, but like Shazier, he's earned it completely. Halfway through the season he has distinguished himself as arguably the best all-around edge rusher among all rookies. Juju can say the same at his position which is also fantastic.

I remember Ben had a 127 QB Rating when targeting Juju. That was before the Lions game, which is just incredible...That man needs to be fed. A great problem to have indeed

This is now 144 QB rating!!!!(by nfl network)

[teegre]

This is now 144 QB rating!!!!(by nfl network)

Pffft... it’s not 153.3. :rolleyes:

[polamalubeast]

929830586901938176

[ALLD]

Juju might have passed JJ Watt as team ROTY today.

[teegre]

Juju might have passed JJ Watt as team ROTY today.

JuJu has leap-frogged Watt.

I hope that Watt responds with a sack and an INT.

To which, JuJu repsponds with 150 yards & a TD.

And so on...

[Shoes]

JuJu has leap-frogged Watt.

I hope that Watt responds with a sack and an INT.

To which, JuJu repsponds with 150 yards & a TD.

And so on...

Watt was choked held most of the day. I guess the Harrison's mantle going to Watt also includes a pair of blindman shades for the officials.

[Craic]

JuJu has leap-frogged Watt.

I hope that Watt responds with a sack and an INT.

To which, JuJu repsponds with 150 yards & a TD.

And so on...

I'm about ninety percent in agreement here. I wouldn't say leapfrogged, but yeah, he's pulling ahead.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Watt was choked held most of the day. I guess the Harrison's mantle going to Watt also includes a pair of blindman shades for the officials. Some of those non calls on TJ being held was a down right horrible. That said JUJU still gets my vote and specially preforming the way he has for a 2nd rd pick and not a 1.

[zulater]

Ju Ju has put himself in the lead.

[DesertSteel]

Yep... JuJu is pulling away... perhaps for the league OROY.

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JuJu has leap-frogged Watt.


Or perhaps put a choke hold on him!

[teegre]

Yep... JuJu is pulling away... perhaps for the league OROY.

- - - Updated - - -


Or perhaps put a choke hold on him!

Hmmm... interesting. With Watson going down (which sucks), it opens the door for JuJu.


:applaudit: Nice!!!

[zulater]

Any thought that T.J. is playing too many snaps? I think I read he played all but 3 defensive snaps this last game. I don't see how getting James back in the mix would hurt him? Give James 15-20 defensive snaps a game and I'll wager anything the quality of T.J.'s play improves. By the way I don't buy that Harrison was really too injured to play last week. The day he was listed as out last week he put up a workout video later in the day of him doing one armed lifts. Don't see how you do those with a bad back? Also the fact he made it a point to post that within hours of being listed as out with an injury tells you he was telling you what was what

[Mojouw]

Wouldn't Kareem Hunt have to be the leader so far? He has completely changed that offense.

[teegre]

Any thought that T.J. is playing too many snaps? I think I read he played all but 3 defensive snaps this last game. I don't see how getting James back in the mix would hurt him? Give James 15-20 defensive snaps a game and I'll wager anything the quality of T.J.'s play improves. By the way I don't buy that Harrison was really too injured to play last week. The day he was listed as out last week he put up a workout video later in the day of him doing one armed lifts. Don't see how you do those with a bad back? Also the fact he made it a point to post that within hours of being listed as out with an injury tells you he was telling you what was what

IMO, Tomlin is going to unleash Hell (in human form) on December 17th.

[teegre]

Wouldn't Kareem Hunt have to be the leader so far? He has completely changed that offense.

So far, yes.

But, if/when JuJu ends the (regular) season with 1000 yards and 10 TDs, he’ll garner a lot of votes.


And, you know what, something has to be said for JuJu’s social media presence. The bike ting distracted us from the protests. Heck, it trumped Kershaw’s Workd Series performance on Twitter. People who know nothing about the NFL know who JuJu is. He’s becoming a “marquee” guy.

[tube517]

Wouldn't Kareem Hunt have to be the leader so far? He has completely changed that offense.


So far, yes.

But, if/when JuJu ends the (regular) season with 1000 yards and 10 TDs, he’ll garner a lot of votes.


And, you know what, something has to be said for JuJu’s social media presence. The bike ting distracted us from the protests. Heck, it trumped Kershaw’s Workd Series performance on Twitter. People who know nothing about the NFL know who JuJu is. He’s becoming a “marquee” guy.

Hunt exploded at the start of the season but he's slowed down since the Steelers stopped him for 21 yards. He hasn't had a 100 yard game since the Chiefs played the Texans.

Juju's gaining momentum as the season goes on.

[Mojouw]

You guys got me convinced that Jujubee has a chance!

60/1000/10 might get it done!

[zulater]

Actually come to think of it Ju Ju kinds of reminds me of the last Steelers offensive ROY, Louis Lipps. If he only he returned punts like Louie!

[43Hitman]

Actually come to think of it Ju Ju kinds of reminds me of the last Steelers offensive ROY, Louis Lipps. If he only he returned punts like Louie!
Oh man that would be something!

[polamalubeast]

930567503901683713

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Actually come to think of it Ju Ju kinds of reminds me of the last Steelers offensive ROY, Louis Lipps. If he only he returned punts like Louie!

You mean, last steelers rookie WR to win OPOY?

Because Roethlisberger won it in 2004!

[zulater]

930567503901683713

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You mean, last steelers rookie WR to win OPOY?

Because Roethlisberger won it in 2004!

Yeah I forgot! :doh:

[86WARD]

He won’t get it for the league...there’s too many players above him. Hunt, Fournette, Kamara will all be ahead of JuJu...but He’s surpasses Watt as Steelers ROY at this stage.

[polamalubeast]

931907427485675521

[zulater]

Any doubt it's Ju Ju?

[86WARD]

If I had to pick one, it’d be JuJu. I wouldn’t argue if it was a coMVP situation though...

[DesertSteel]

JuJu...

Watt would need a monster game next week to change my mind. I think Watt will be dominant next year, by the way.

[ALLD]

Steelers know how to pick WR better than any other team in the NFL. It's Juju for team RoY.