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GBMelBlount
11-02-2017, 07:41 AM
While I have poked fun at Ben and our seeming inability to get in the end zone, I do feel most of this will work itself out as Ben gets more in synch with our receiving corps.

Ben Roethlisberger might not be the problem with Pittsburgh’s offense

Maybe the real issue with the Steelers’ offense involves the receivers rather than the passer.

A substantial portion of the blame for the Pittsburgh Steelers’ persistent difficulty in translating field position to touchdowns this season has been laid at the feet of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. It’s been said that Big Ben no longer can do the wondrous things that became his trademark as one of the NFL’s top field generals during his 14 seasons in the league. Questions also have been raised about Ben’s degree of motivation, particularly in view of the hints he dropped at the end of last season that he was considering possible retirement.

But a closer examination of what’s actually occurring on the field suggests that the root problem with Pittsburgh’s offense might have more to do with Ben’s lack of familiarity with his current receiver corps, and their lack of familiarity with No. 7. This also was a nagging problem last season, becoming painfully evident in the Steelers’ defeat in Foxborough in the AFC Championship Game.

(continued)

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-opinions-reactions-news-updates/2017/11/1/16581254/ben-roethlisberger-might-not-be-the-problem-with-pittsburghs-offense-steelers-todd-haley-nfl

86WARD
11-02-2017, 10:40 AM
I’m not sure he’s the problem every week but last week he was a big part of it as a ton of his throws were just very inaccurate and off the mark.

DesertSteel
11-02-2017, 11:00 AM
I’m not sure he’s the problem every week but last week he was a big part of it as a ton of his throws were just very inaccurate and off the mark.
Was it really "a ton of his throws" that were off or just two?

steel striker
11-02-2017, 11:01 AM
Just a couple that I saw.

Moose
11-02-2017, 11:13 AM
I think that Ben has something to do with it naturally, since he's the sole controller of the ball on offense. But I think play calling and of course dropped passes is a big part also. I just can't figure out why Ben doesn't run the ball like he used to in order to pick up 1st or TD when it's only 1 or 2 yrds and 3rd down. Again, I think the problem is shared with all offense ball carriers, and play calling.

DesertSteel
11-02-2017, 11:29 AM
I think that Ben has something to do with it naturally, since he's the sole controller of the ball on offense. But I think play calling and of course dropped passes is a big part also. I just can't figure out why Ben doesn't run the ball like he used to in order to pick up 1st or TD when it's only 1 or 2 yrds and 3rd down. Again, I think the problem is shared with all offense ball carriers, and play calling.
You've seen him run the past 2-3 years and still ask this??

Born2Steel
11-02-2017, 11:33 AM
When the QB has to play 'get the ball out in under 3 secs', the WRs MUST run great routes. Just getting open is not good enough. The advantage for the offense is, and always has been, that the WRs know where they're going, and when and where to expect the ball. Without proper route running, the ball will look off target most plays. Ben has ALWAYS been able to adlib and move and make plays late. Defenses do not allow for that much anymore. Some of the problem is guys just being on the same page. Some of the problem is Ben forcing plays to certain guys he trusts. Some of the problem is inconsistent play like penalties that bring back positive plays. The 'play calling' is hardly ever THE issue. I don't always understand the call, but hard for me to criticize most games, since I'm not in team meetings and such. NO TEAM just wings it once the game starts, there's always the plan. With his history, I doubt much blame needs to be heaped on Ben's shoulders. But, he IS the QB, so he naturally shoulders it himself. And welcomes everyone to pile on as well.

Moose
11-02-2017, 11:40 AM
You've seen him run the past 2-3 years and still ask this??

LOL....got me ! :)

Mojouw
11-02-2017, 12:27 PM
Aaron Rodgers and the Packers went through this a few seasons recently. Lost some of his experienced guys to retirement and injury and the new guys just didn't run the routes they way Rodgers expected. Reps and time fixed this and now (when people are not hurt) that thing just hums along.

Is Ben old and "less" than he used to be? Almost certainly. But let's not shovel dirt on his grave just yet.

An example of my thinking is look at that "miss" to James Sunday night. Ben clearly expected James to adjust the route and run deeper up the seam. James just ran the route and did not adjust to the ocean of space the defense gave him.

Several misses to Hunter have been similar. Ben threw it back shoulder and Hunter clearly expected it over front shoulder.

I'm sure this all works great in practice and a ball never hits the ground. Then the lights come on and you have to do it with the bullets flying and the QB and receiver are not "seeing" the same thing.

The question is whether or not this can get "smoothed" out during the season and come the stretch run, it is all fine. Or was this a if it didn't happen in camp and ain't gonna happen now?

vasteeler
11-02-2017, 01:45 PM
Aaron Rodgers and the Packers went through this a few seasons recently. Lost some of his experienced guys to retirement and injury and the new guys just didn't run the routes they way Rodgers expected. Reps and time fixed this and now (when people are not hurt) that thing just hums along.

Is Ben old and "less" than he used to be? Almost certainly. But let's not shovel dirt on his grave just yet.

An example of my thinking is look at that "miss" to James Sunday night. Ben clearly expected James to adjust the route and run deeper up the seam. James just ran the route and did not adjust to the ocean of space the defense gave him.

Several misses to Hunter have been similar. Ben threw it back shoulder and Hunter clearly expected it over front shoulder.

I'm sure this all works great in practice and a ball never hits the ground. Then the lights come on and you have to do it with the bullets flying and the QB and receiver are not "seeing" the same thing.

The question is whether or not this can get "smoothed" out during the season and come the stretch run, it is all fine. Or was this a if it didn't happen in camp and ain't gonna happen now?

So much this

tube517
11-02-2017, 01:47 PM
Fire Randy Fichtner :chuckle:

hawaiiansteeler
11-02-2017, 02:00 PM
I just can't figure out why Ben doesn't run the ball like he used to

https://thestrongmove.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ben-roethlisberger-broken-nose.jpg

EzraTank
11-02-2017, 02:06 PM
Ben missed two WIDE open (I'm talking no one within 20 yards of them) receivers in the endzone last week.

Mojouw
11-02-2017, 02:53 PM
Ben missed two WIDE open (I'm talking no one within 20 yards of them) receivers in the endzone last week.

One was a drop that hit the dude in the hands and one was an example of what I posted earlier. Ben clearly seemed to expect DHB to break his route sharper and faster to the outside - DHB clearly thought it was to be shallower and deeper into the endzone.

Or are we not talking about the same two plays?

DesertSteel
11-02-2017, 03:36 PM
Ben missed two WIDE open (I'm talking no one within 20 yards of them) receivers in the endzone last week.


One was a drop that hit the dude in the hands and one was an example of what I posted earlier. Ben clearly seemed to expect DHB to break his route sharper and faster to the outside - DHB clearly thought it was to be shallower and deeper into the endzone.

Or are we not talking about the same two plays?
Exactly! One hit the receiver's hands and the other one was badly thrown. The other miscue was to James over the middle. Both were very egregious but hardly "a ton of throws" that were off in that game, as earlier stated.

tube517
11-02-2017, 03:59 PM
Exactly! One hit the receiver's hands and the other one was badly thrown. The other miscue was to James over the middle. Both were very egregious but hardly "a ton of throws" that were off in that game, as earlier stated.

His throw to Juju was .00003 inches off. Clearly ben needs glasses. :old::nerd: :chuckle:

86WARD
11-02-2017, 08:16 PM
Was it really "a ton of his throws" that were off or just two?

I saw a lot. There were 2-3 deep balls that were no where near target. There was a pass to Hunter that was behind him and Hunter made the catch, there was the TD Pass that wasn’t to DHB, I think there was a pass to James that was missed...to name a few.

Psycho Ward 86
11-02-2017, 09:33 PM
that article is hot garbage. a lot of QB's have to go through the same growing pains as Ben and theyre still playing amazing football. Ben is undeniably a big part of the problem. this writer is just throwing crap on the wall with an uncalculated editorial to see what sticks. and the whole chemistry angle with receivers doesnt add up in some aspects, like with Martavis for example. Ben hardly worked with him at all in the offseason and he didnt even play for like 6 weeks. That still turned out great.

If Ben cant pick up his play to a high level, the damage to the team will be far bigger beyond himself. Bell will be forced to shoulder Larry Johnson-like touches and hes going to short circuit his career. No effective Ben and Bell, where do you even go from there?

- - - Updated - - -



Several misses to Hunter have been similar. Ben threw it back shoulder and Hunter clearly expected it over front shoulder.



Ben has been missing even routine throws that really dont require chemistry. Hunter's lone reception was a great adjustment by him. How do you throw that far behind a big receiver who has his body cleanly shielding away from the defender on a shallow crossing route?

Psycho Ward 86
11-02-2017, 09:43 PM
Aaron Rodgers and the Packers went through this a few seasons recently. Lost some of his experienced guys to retirement and injury and the new guys just didn't run the routes they way Rodgers expected. Reps and time fixed this and now (when people are not hurt) that thing just hums along.

Is Ben old and "less" than he used to be? Almost certainly. But let's not shovel dirt on his grave just yet.

An example of my thinking is look at that "miss" to James Sunday night. Ben clearly expected James to adjust the route and run deeper up the seam. James just ran the route and did not adjust to the ocean of space the defense gave him.

Several misses to Hunter have been similar. Ben threw it back shoulder and Hunter clearly expected it over front shoulder.

I'm sure this all works great in practice and a ball never hits the ground. Then the lights come on and you have to do it with the bullets flying and the QB and receiver are not "seeing" the same thing.

The question is whether or not this can get "smoothed" out during the season and come the stretch run, it is all fine. Or was this a if it didn't happen in camp and ain't gonna happen now?

The bolded is just something I cant get on board with agreeing with. If you're referring to 2015, Rodgers lost Jordy, Davante Adams wasnt good yet and terrible at pretty much everything, and Lacy was playing like Cheeseburger Eddie. Rodgers also had some bizarre family stuff going on off the field that season. Finishing with a 31:8 TD:INT ratio and 92.7 QB Rating is an awfully good "bad" season

smokin3000gt
11-02-2017, 11:12 PM
https://thestrongmove.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ben-roethlisberger-broken-nose.jpg

I'll never forget that day. That punch to the face didn't even draw a flag!

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-03-2017, 12:40 AM
that article is hot garbage.

Thank you for recognizing that and pointing it out. :applaudit:

Just because a blogger posts something on the internet, doesn't mean its always a legit opinion based upon sound reasoning. Sometimes its no different than anybody else here with a keyboard and a username that rhymes with smash.

Mojouw
11-03-2017, 10:11 AM
The bolded is just something I cant get on board with agreeing with. If you're referring to 2015, Rodgers lost Jordy, Davante Adams wasnt good yet and terrible at pretty much everything, and Lacy was playing like Cheeseburger Eddie. Rodgers also had some bizarre family stuff going on off the field that season. Finishing with a 31:8 TD:INT ratio and 92.7 QB Rating is an awfully good "bad" season

I think it was 2014 and that was the "RELAX" year I think. They had Jordy Nelson and Cobb but everyone else was a rookie or new to Rodgers in the pass game. They opened like 1-3 or something and the offense looked all sputtery. Then they only lost 2 times the rest of the year.

Is it a 1 to 1 comparison? No, what ever is? But the point is that there is a bit of truth in the original article. I can think of 3 TDs off the top of my head that have been flat out drops. Martavis Bryant and Justin Hunter have spent most of the season looking like they never ran a "go" route before. Jesse James and Ben look like they have never practiced together prior to like last Thursday or something. Eli Rogers has totally disappeared.

Something is going on more than "Ben is old and sucks now". Is that part of it? Clearly - since he just sprays deep balls around now. Another part of it really looks like a starting skill position set that never really played together in pads prior to Week 1. I think that the Steelers from top to bottom made a dangerous assumption that everything would instantly look like Martavis Bryant's breakout year without skipping a beat. Clearly that was wrong and now the offense is all discombobulated because they had one plan and are having to create an alternative on the fly.

AtlantaDan
11-03-2017, 10:26 AM
Ben missed two WIDE open (I'm talking no one within 20 yards of them) receivers in the endzone last week.

Ben has been missing throws all season. The overthrow of a wide open James right before the JuJu TD was a pass a NFL QB has to make and an example of Ben now being off on not just long passes.

But in his chat this week Ed B. of the P-G refers to three passes to the end zone Sunday night and notes how perceptions can change if a few plays are made

So, if Eli Rogers catches the TD pass he dropped and if Antonio Brown's TD catch that was scratched because of a ticky-tack pushing off penalty against him counts, what would you be saying? Plus, I thought DHB could have given a little more effort on that other one in the end zone.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/10/31/Ed-Bouchette-Steelers-chat-10-31-17/stories/201710310145

pczach
11-03-2017, 04:38 PM
I said the same thing about Ben several times in the game day thread. If Eli doesn't drop the touchdown pass and AB's TD isn't negated by a penalty, his stats look much different.

That doesn't even include Ben going 9-12 for 189 yards on third down in the game. So much for all the claims that he isn't clutch, that he flinches from pressure, that his head isn't in the game, that he's already retired, that he doesn't have it anymore, etc.. Listening to fans overreact to everything is comical at times......incredibly annoying at other times.

Psycho Ward 86
11-04-2017, 01:56 PM
Bottom line, we've made 29 trips to the redzone and converted for TD's on only 12 (a 41.38% rate). Thats 3rd worst in the league. Want to know what we're the 3rd best in the league at? Making red zone trips, which the Patriots (34) and Rams (31) are the only teams that are better at it. Those guys are 7th and 2nd in the league in PPG, so thats kind of neat. Tired of salivating at the potential of this offense and never getting a bite of the final product

Look how many of these offensive areas require better play from Ben: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11/5-key-areas-steelers-offense-needs-improve-bye-week/

if he plays well down the stretch in even one of these areas, itll be a great boon for the offense