Steelers LB coach Porter says Harrison's time will come

[polamalubeast]

The newest game of hide-and-seek on the Steelers doesn't involve JuJu Smith-Schuster, Le'Veon Bell or a touchdown celebration.

This time, the player in hiding is veteran James Harrison, who did not get on the field again Sunday night when the Steelers beat the Detroit Lions, 20-15, at Ford Field.

It was the second time this season Harrison dressed for a game but did not play. The 39-year-old outside linebacker also was inactive for two other games, meaning he has taken snaps in only half of the Steelers' eight games this season.

His position coach, however, promises Harrison will be sought out when the Steelers return from their bye week.

“James is never out of the picture,” Joey Porter said Tuesday. “We'll use James when we feel it's time to use James.”

Porter created a stir in training camp when he said Harrison, the franchise's all-time sacks leader, would be used as the football equivalent of a relief pitcher this season. But Porter and coach Mike Tomlin have held true to their word. Harrison has taken just 29 snaps, with only Arthur Moats getting less playing time among outside linebackers.

Harrison's biggest contribution came three weeks ago in Kansas City when he took 15 snaps lining up against Chiefs left tackle Eric Fisher. His sack of Alex Smith helped the Steelers seal the 19-13 victory over the NFL's last unbeaten team.


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http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/12896704-74/james-harrison-remains-seldom-used-but-steelers-lb-coach-joey-porter-says

[Steeldude]

They could have used Harrison against the Lions' ailing o-line.

[BlackAndGold]

They could have used Harrison against the Lions' ailing o-line.

They were dropping the OLB's in coverage against the Lions.

[st33lersguy]

Is bringing him when the game is close really too much to ask?

[Steeldude]

They were dropping the OLB's in coverage against the Lions.

And they were also rushing them. Were they in coverage 100% of the plays? To sit Harrison, the best pass rushing OLB on them team, on the bench for the entire game is pure lunacy. At least get him in there on some plays. Watt and Dupree couldn't do anything against back tackles. They put Moats in and had him rush the QB.

[43Hitman]

I'm going to trust the coaches on his pitch count. We're 6-2 going into the bye week. Not really much to complain about, unless you just like to complain. Also, maybe James has lost a step and the coaches don't want to expose him too much. It's not like the coaches are purposefully keeping him out of the game because he's better, that kind of thinking is lunacy.

[Steeldude]

I'm going to trust the coaches on his pitch count. We're 6-2 going into the bye week. Not really much to complain about, unless you just like to complain. Also, maybe James has lost a step and the coaches don't want to expose him too much. It's not like the coaches are purposefully keeping him out of the game because he's better, that kind of thinking is lunacy.

I learned not to always trust coaches after the Kordell experiment and the many losses to the Patriots, using the same weak defensive game plan.

I doubt the coaches can see if he lost a step when he doesn't play or practice much.

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo? Note: Each OLB on that list, except Harrison, was given a chance to rush the QB in the Lions' game.

[polamalubeast]

I learned not to always trust coaches after the Kordell experiment and the many losses to the Patriots, using the same weak defensive game plan.

I doubt the coaches can see if he lost a step when he doesn't play or practice much.

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo? Note: Each OLB on that list, except Harrison, was given a chance to rush the QB in the Lions' game.

If Cowher and Tomlin are so bad, why did they win both over 60% of their games in their careers?

I know they are not perfect, but they have more quality than defaults.

If you'd be our HC, Harrison would already be burned right now.

[BlackAndGold]

And they were also rushing them. Were they in coverage 100% of the plays? To sit Harrison, the best pass rushing OLB on them team, on the bench for the entire game is pure lunacy. At least get him in there on some plays. Watt and Dupree couldn't do anything against back tackles. They put Moats in and had him rush the QB.

Harrison should be playing over Moats, that is something I 100% agree with.

I gotta see the numbers of how many times the OLB's dropped in coverage against Detroit. "Seemed" like it was over 50% for sure. Watt dropped backed a ton.

[Mojouw]

Stafford was getting the ball out in 2-3 seconds on most snaps. The pass rush was trying to get there by getting someone unblocked. Steelers brought multiple extra rushers (5 or more) many times. In order to do that, Butler needs as much pre-snap confusion and uncertainty as possible. Who is rushing? Who is dropping? Who is on a stunt? Etc. Harrison provides none of that. If he is on the field, he is coming hell for leather around the edge after the QB. No disguise, no zone drop. Plus, dropping him into coverage against Theo Riddick or Ebron or whoever came out the slot for the Lions would be an unmitigated disaster at this point.

Maybe the strategy was bad, but it is not confusing why Harrison didn't play and others did. He is a 39 year old human muscle that no one wants to see chasing players 10-15 years younger than him around in the flat or between the hash marks.

TJ Watt spent most of the second half as some sort of odd inside LB in the nickel alignment. Harrison can't do that.

[teegre]

TJ Watt spent most of the second half as some sort of odd inside LB in the nickel alignment. Harrison can't do that.

Watt to ILB???

I said it on draft day... and I'm still convinced that it's a possibility.

Actually, I'd play him in the Hawk position that Derrick Thomas played (OLB, ILB, DE).

[Mojouw]

Watt to ILB???

I said it on draft day... and I'm still convinced that it's a possibility.

Actually, I'd play him in the Hawk position that Derrick Thomas played (OLB, ILB, DE).

I can see either one. I also think I see Butler really getting into the idea of moving Watt and Hilton around to create overloads and/or cause confusion in blocking schemes.

I think that nickel package can get really really lethal.

DBs: Mitchell/Davis/Burns/Haden/Hilton -- all are excellent blitzers (well except Burns!)
LBs: Watt/Shazier -- both can cover and rush. Eventually I task Watt with having a role similar to what GB does with Matthews now -- roving creator of havoc
DL: Heyward/Hargrave/Tuitt -- best 3 man unit in the league. I keep them ALL on the field in this version of my nickel package

But MojoUW -- you're missing a guy! Yup. Let me introduce you to Bud Dupree -- roving Pete Carroll inspired "Leo" rusher.

In the Dime, do the same thing but take one of the DL off the field and bring in Willie Gay (hopefully by the end of the season this is Cam Sutton!)

[BlackAndGold]

I can see either one. I also think I see Butler really getting into the idea of moving Watt and Hilton around to create overloads and/or cause confusion in blocking schemes.

I think that nickel package can get really really lethal.

DBs: Mitchell/Davis/Burns/Haden/Hilton -- all are excellent blitzers (well except Burns!)
LBs: Watt/Shazier -- both can cover and rush. Eventually I task Watt with having a role similar to what GB does with Matthews now -- roving creator of havoc
DL: Heyward/Hargrave/Tuitt -- best 3 man unit in the league. I keep them ALL on the field in this version of my nickel package

But MojoUW -- you're missing a guy! Yup. Let me introduce you to Bud Dupree -- roving Pete Carroll inspired "Leo" rusher.

In the Dime, do the same thing but take one of the DL off the field and bring in Willie Gay (hopefully by the end of the season this is Cam Sutton!)

Clay Matthews was my comparison for Watt during the draft, seems like he could fill that role perfectly.

Agree with your whole post. This defense has the talent to get very creative and give opposing QB's ton of different looks. (I know you posted Sutton as the dime backer, but this is a spot I hope Brian Allen can play in the future.)

[DesertSteel]

I learned not to always trust coaches after the Kordell experiment and the many losses to the Patriots, using the same weak defensive game plan.

I doubt the coaches can see if he lost a step when he doesn't play or practice much.

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo? Note: Each OLB on that list, except Harrison, was given a chance to rush the QB in the Lions' game.
A fact that you seem to overlook is that we are still #2 in the league in sacks and on pace for 52.

[Steeldude]

If Cowher and Tomlin are so bad, why did they win both over 60% of their games in their careers?

I know they are not perfect, but they have more quality than defaults.

If you'd be our HC, Harrison would already be burned right now.

How do you know he would be burned out? Being 39 doesn't mean he would definitely be burned out. I would ask Harrison how much he can take and then rotate accordingly. I certainly wouldn't bench him the entire game.

If I was the HC Kordell would have been a WR full time or cut from the team.

I didn't say or imply Cowher or Tomlin are so bad. I said I don't always trust the coaches.

[Mojouw]

Clay Matthews was my comparison for Watt during the draft, seems like he could fill that role perfectly.

Agree with your whole post. This defense has the talent to get very creative and give opposing QB's ton of different looks. (I know you posted Sutton as the dime backer, but this is a spot I hope Brian Allen can play in the future.)

Good point. I would like to see Allen grow into that role as well. I just figure that based on how each were projected at the draft, Sutton has a better chance of being ready for a playoff run.

[Steeldude]

A fact that you seem to overlook is that we are still #2 in the league in sacks and on pace for 52.

So settle for less rather than potentially more?

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo?

[BlackAndGold]

Good point. I would like to see Allen grow into that role as well. I just figure that based on how each were projected at the draft, Sutton has a better chance of being ready for a playoff run.

I agree for this year. (Sutton needs to see the field some way)

But by next year I'd like to see Allen take the role in covering these big TE's that is in the league. Put that 6'3" 4.4 forty talent to good use.

[polamalubeast]

Probably our first game of the year that our pass rush was not very good, but some go crazy because of one game!

For Harrison, I think the Steelers keep him fresh for a big game.

[ALLD]

They need to bring in Harrison to take some of the pressure off the other LBers and give them a rest. Don't wait until week 16 to put him in regular rotation.

IMO the greatest play in NFL history.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAIcUyg50TU

[pepsyman1]

I'm still disappointed in our coverage scheme. Our 3-4 has always relied on a certain amount of deception from the linebackers when it came to who was rushing or blitzing. Against the QB's that are good at getting rid of the ball quickly (Stafford was on it the other night, Brady ALWAYS does against us), I still can't wrap my head around our corners playing SO far off. Just OCCASIONALLY playing some bump and run coverage would disrupt the timing, give our rushers a split second longer to reach the QB and give the opposing team one more thing to think about. We don't have to try press coverage the whole game, but playing man coverage was the entire conversation this off season. I think Haden and Burns are more than capable of getting in a receivers face and staying with them. I'd like to see SOME evidence that we are ready to go down that route before the next meeting with Brady and company.

[teegre]

Harrison should absolutely not being playing over Watt. (Watt almost had 3 INTs.)

Harrison not playing over Dupree or Chickillo... I kind of get it.

Harrison not playing over Moats... :huh:

[86WARD]

I’m good with keeping his legs fresh until December...

[Mojouw]

I'm still disappointed in our coverage scheme. Our 3-4 has always relied on a certain amount of deception from the linebackers when it came to who was rushing or blitzing. Against the QB's that are good at getting rid of the ball quickly (Stafford was on it the other night, Brady ALWAYS does against us), I still can't wrap my head around our corners playing SO far off. Just OCCASIONALLY playing some bump and run coverage would disrupt the timing, give our rushers a split second longer to reach the QB and give the opposing team one more thing to think about. We don't have to try press coverage the whole game, but playing man coverage was the entire conversation this off season. I think Haden and Burns are more than capable of getting in a receivers face and staying with them. I'd like to see SOME evidence that we are ready to go down that route before the next meeting with Brady and company.

The CBs are not playing "off". There has been a major shift in how the Steelers approach their zone coverages last season and this season. You do not see as much of the DBs just retreating 10 yards down field. The outside CBs (Haden and Burns) are not playing on the LOS, but they are playing close to the WR and are often in trail technique with them attempting to "front" the WR. At a certain point, the receiver gets passed off to the deep DB, usually a safety hanging back in a classic Cover 2 position. That is where the gap opens up. But it isn't because folks are "sagging" off in their coverages. Same with crossers on the shorter parts of the field - the gap opens when offensive players transition from one zone to the next, not because cushions are being unreasonably given.

The zone defense this year has some issues, but that are not the same issues that it has had before. Hell, some routes Artie Burns doesn't even backpedal.

[Mojouw]

Harrison should absolutely not being playing over Watt. (Watt almost had 3 INTs.)

Harrison not playing over Dupree or Chickillo... I kind of get it.

Harrison not playing over Moats... :huh:

I am convinced after watching some games and reading Porter's comments, that the Steelers see Harrison as a "one trick pony" at OLB at this point in his career. Others are playing over him because no matter how good Harrison's "one trick" is, it does not fit into the overall defensive scheme that is being run. He can't shift into coverage, he isn't really disguising anything when he is out there, etc.

The question really isn't "Why is Harrison not playing?" - that is pretty darn clear at this point. The question, at least for me, is "Does this flavor of the 3-4 front offer anything better over previous versions the Steelers have tried and does the role flexibility of the other LBs on the roster outweigh the potential that Harrison represents off the edge?

For me, I will almost always choose the tactical flexibility over the the just one thing set-up. However, the question is how good is that one thing? Now prime James Harrison? I'll take that over the flexibility that Watt and Dupree give you in obvious passing situations. But that isn't where we are at in 2017. The assumption seems to be that "insert James Harrison create sacks". But is that really true? So far he has had 2-4 good snaps against a tackle that he owns.

Interesting debate regardless.

[teegre]

I am convinced after watching some games and reading Porter's comments, that the Steelers see Harrison as a "one trick pony" at OLB at this point in his career. Others are playing over him because no matter how good Harrison's "one trick" is, it does not fit into the overall defensive scheme that is being run. He can't shift into coverage, he isn't really disguising anything when he is out there, etc.

The question really isn't "Why is Harrison not playing?" - that is pretty darn clear at this point. The question, at least for me, is "Does this flavor of the 3-4 front offer anything better over previous versions the Steelers have tried and does the role flexibility of the other LBs on the roster outweigh the potential that Harrison represents off the edge?

For me, I will almost always choose the tactical flexibility over the the just one thing set-up. However, the question is how good is that one thing? Now prime James Harrison? I'll take that over the flexibility that Watt and Dupree give you in obvious passing situations. But that isn't where we are at in 2017. The assumption seems to be that "insert James Harrison create sacks". But is that really true? So far he has had 2-4 good snaps against a tackle that he owns.

Interesting debate regardless.

One could equate James Harrison with James Conner. When Conner enters the game, we all know that it is going to be a run (because, his pass blocking isn't up to par). Likewise, Harrison is the best pass-rusher on the team, but when he is in, everyone knows that he is absolutely going to rush the passer (and not drop into coverage).

Then again, his one trick is pretty darn good. I'd have loved to see him come in and blow Mihalik backwards (after Mahalik had spent three quarters trying to out-maneuver Watt). [Do not get me wrong: I would not replace Watt with Harrison; I'd move Watt to ILB.]

[Iron Steeler]

They were dropping the OLB's in coverage against the Lions.

I really hope we dont try that against Brady come December

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I would of liked to see him near the 4th quarter.

Almost like a closer in baseball.

If were in the 4th quarter with a 2 score lead under 4 minutes, I feel we should unleash deebo on them. We could create a specialist , or a new trend!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The CBs are not playing "off". There has been a major shift in how the Steelers approach their zone coverages last season and this season. You do not see as much of the DBs just retreating 10 yards down field. The outside CBs (Haden and Burns) are not playing on the LOS, but they are playing close to the WR and are often in trail technique with them attempting to "front" the WR. At a certain point, the receiver gets passed off to the deep DB, usually a safety hanging back in a classic Cover 2 position. That is where the gap opens up. But it isn't because folks are "sagging" off in their coverages. Same with crossers on the shorter parts of the field - the gap opens when offensive players transition from one zone to the next, not because cushions are being unreasonably given.

The zone defense this year has some issues, but that are not the same issues that it has had before. Hell, some routes Artie Burns doesn't even backpedal.

I still see Burns and Haden playing a lot of zone coverage that has them lined up 10 yards off the LOS. As you mention, Burns often doesn't even backpedal, as he is standing flat footed 12 yards off and looking to jump any short routes. At times he knows he has deep help, so doesn't worry about the 20 yard distance as that is where he passes off to the safety help. One completion that Stafford had, he gave a shoulder fake to move Burns on the out and then completed the pass in the gap behind Burns and in front of Mitchell, which is a heck of a throw.

Playing 10 yards off the ball when you know you wont get beat on a pump fake to the flat is not a problem, but for years fans see Steeler CB's not playing at the LOS and think its an issue. I don't have a problem with the alignment, but personally I think I would like to see Burns get in some kind of backpedal like Haden does, just to be playing on his toes and not flat footed.

[RunNGun]

I wouldn't change anything about the scheme at this point. You nailed it on the head by saying Harrison in the game doesn't disguise anything. If 92 happens to drop into coverage he is easily exposed. That's where Watt is an extremely dynamic player. Watching him drop into coverage is a thing of beauty. I can't recall an OLB we've ever had do it as well as him. With teams that are pass heavy, (majority of the NFL) you can't afford to take Watt out of the game. If a team plays smashmouth, then I see no reason why Harrison doesn't get some snaps. He still sets the edge better than any LBer we have.

[Craic]

I wouldn't change anything about the scheme at this point. You nailed it on the head by saying Harrison in the game doesn't disguise anything. If 92 happens to drop into coverage he is easily exposed. That's where Watt is an extremely dynamic player. Watching him drop into coverage is a thing of beauty. I can't recall an OLB we've ever had do it as well as him. With teams that are pass heavy, (majority of the NFL) you can't afford to take Watt out of the game. If a team plays smashmouth, then I see no reason why Harrison doesn't get some snaps. He still sets the edge better than any LBer we have.

And, that is where Moats gets played over Harrison, because Moats can still be put in zone coverage. Running Moats out there is not a big sign to the offense on what we're going to do.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Harrison should absolutely not being playing over Watt. (Watt almost had 3 INTs.)

Harrison not playing over Dupree or Chickillo... I kind of get it.

Harrison not playing over Moats... :huh:

yeah that one was really dumb even if it was just 5 snaps. i dont see any reason for us to get cute with keeping James fresh in tight games like this

[Steeldude]

Where are people getting that if Harrison is in that he can only rush or defend the run, but not go into coverage? Didn't Harrison do well in coverage last year?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Where are people getting that if Harrison is in that he can only rush or defend the run, but not go into coverage? Didn't Harrison do well in coverage last year?

IDK, seems like a reach that 39 year old guy can turn the corner on NFL LT's, but cant handle a 3-5 step drop into covering hook/curl in the flats when he has done it for a decade. :noidea:

I still think that with leading the division, Steelers can still afford to limit his snap count until week 12. Start working him in down the stretch, so he can impact the rush in the playoffs. Watt and Chickillo can get the first 7 innings, so Deebo can come in for the save.

[Craic]

Where are people getting that if Harrison is in that he can only rush or defend the run, but not go into coverage? Didn't Harrison do well in coverage last year?

A year ago is an eternity at 39 concerning physical ability, especially at that level. Don't you think the coaches see what he is capable of in practice?

[teegre]

Don't you think the coaches see what he is capable of in practice?

Harrison did not practice for the overwhelming majority of training camp.

To me, that says that they are conserving every ounce of his strength. Conserving it for when? I don’t know... maybe for when the Steelers play their Achilles heel (the Taperiots).


NOTE: Craic, that is not directed at you, but your post made me think of something I’ve been meaning to post.

[Mojouw]

Where are people getting that if Harrison is in that he can only rush or defend the run, but not go into coverage? Didn't Harrison do well in coverage last year?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/06/james-harrison-rated-best-cover-olb-2016/

This would seem to say that he did.

My main point is that when I watch Watt and Dupree in coverage they look smoother than Harrison does at this point in his career. I also see Butler moving around the OLBers and sub package DBs more this season than he did last year. That led to (at least in the Detroit game) Watt taking a coverage drop down the near hash that looked like something a "Tampa 2" LB would do.

I may have been overstating things - but these are the types of things that I think others than James Harrison are better at. Could Harrison do them? Maybe - but not as well. And it seems that the Steelers defensive staff is willing to take any loss of pass rush ability in a trade-off with flexibility in alignments and coverages.

Maybe they are planning on using him like Parcells did Otis Anderson at the end? Never see him during the regular season and then "Break Glass in Case of Playoffs" and watch the "lion in winter" just dominate?

I agree with you that it is frustrating to watch Dupree run himself past the QB over and over again knowing that Harrison is just sitting over there doing nothing.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Watt has earned every single one of his snaps. I have no problem with Watt playing so much at Harrison's expense. But its time to seriously talk about siphoning away Dupree's playing time for Harrison, especially on pass rushing downs

[Hawkman]

Watt has earned every single one of his snaps. I have no problem with Watt playing so much at Harrison's expense. But its time to seriously talk about siphoning away Dupree's playing time for Harrison, especially on pass rushing downs

You want him to play LOLB? I think the only time he's ever done that is with the Bengals, and I don't think that worked out very well.

[Psycho Ward 86]

You want him to play LOLB? I think the only time he's ever done that is with the Bengals, and I don't think that worked out very well.

Correct, Harrison is pretty out of position as an OLB on a 4-3 front. Harrison/Watt being in the game as our OLB's doesnt have to mean that Harrison cant play at his normal ROLB spot. Watt has had his fair share snaps at Dupree's spot so we could always swap them. Watt has been engulfing everything put on his plate with great success so I dont think this would be such a big deal. 9 times out of 10 it would probably be a shaky idea at best, but Watt is no ordinary rookie

[Mojouw]

I would love to know what Porter's unedited opinion of Dupree and his progress really is. I feel that Dupree has more raw ability than Porter did but he doesn't have enough nasty to his game. Could be injury and inexperience but I feel he might need some more stank to his game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

His time will come. Trust in Peezy!! The good news is Harrison is depth...he’s your depth and at his age, I’d take him over Emmons, Worilds, Jones, etc.

[tube517]

p/BcZxf-cAtxu #freedeebo :chuckle:

[SteelMember]

Lol... yeah, it's week 14 people. Put the man in the damn game somehow... sheesh!

[Steeldude]

Lol... yeah, it's week 14 people. Put the man in the damn game somehow... sheesh!

It's not going to happen. Dupree and Watt are leaps and bounds better at rushing the passer than Harrison. *sarcasm*

Also, keep in mind that Harrison is the 5th LB on the depth chart.

[Hawkman]

Yeah and we are 10-2 and second in the NFL in sacks. Coaches don’t know what the hell they are doing.

[SteelMember]

It's not going to happen. Dupree and Watt are leaps and bounds better at rushing the passer than Harrison. *sarcasm*

Also, keep in mind that Harrison is the 5th LB on the depth chart.

Well, at least he'll be well rested. Hope no bed sore injury's are keeping him out... :chuckle:

[Steeldude]

Yeah and we are 10-2 and second in the NFL in sacks. Coaches don’t know what the hell they are doing.

Coaches also kept Kordell as the QB for 5 years. Yep, coaches always know what they are doing. They also went to the AFCC game with this moron at QB. Yep, they always know what they are doing.

Here is a question for you. You are forming your team, do you keep your best pass rusher on the bench every game or do you work him in some how? Do you relegate this best rusher as the 5th LB on the depth chart?

[DesertSteel]

I think that they're saving him for Tom Brady :)

[BlackAndGold]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability to drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

[Fire Goodell]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

Yep, to be honest this Steeler defense has evolved to where the OLB's need to be faster. There doesn't seem to be a place on this defense for just a pure rusher at OLB. I do like it though, since it makes the D less predictable where the rush is coming from. In the past, if you stopped the outside rush, you negated the Steelers pass rush, and teams like the Patriots* caught on to that over 10 years ago. It's about time honestly we evolved with the times.

[Hawkman]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

THIS!

[Mojouw]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability to drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

I refuse to acknowledge change! Free DEEBO!

[Steeldude]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability to drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

Harrison dropped into coverage last year. In fact, wasn't he rated one of the best LBs in coverage? Also, why would Harrison always need to be placed in coverage if he is used on special plays? I heard these same stories when the Steelers let him walk. Yet, when he returned, sparked the defense and played very well(including coverage).

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Yep, to be honest this Steeler defense has evolved to where the OLB's need to be faster. There doesn't seem to be a place on this defense for just a pure rusher at OLB. I do like it though, since it makes the D less predictable where the rush is coming from. In the past, if you stopped the outside rush, you negated the Steelers pass rush, and teams like the Patriots* caught on to that over 10 years ago. It's about time honestly we evolved with the times.

But now the Steelers have no outside rush. So Harrison can only rush? I doubt any if the OLBs are anywhere close to being as good as Harrison at setting the edge.

[st33lersguy]

Seriously, it's time. He can still make an impact, see Kansas City this year

[Hawkman]

Without Shazier, I can see both Watt and Deebo on the field together. Deebo has had some back issues recently.

[Psycho Ward 86]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability to drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

Running up the arc constantly without a countermove doesnt fit the defense either.

Harrison graded out as the best OLB in coverage last season. The eye test suggests that he was still quite good too. Why do people keep having this notion that Harrison cant cover. He has always been able to cover.

Heyward, Tuitt, Deebo, Watt, Hargrave, Hilton, and Williams all bring pressure much more consistently than Dupree. Maybe his shoulder is still bothering him, i was defending him earlier in the season because it sounded like he was being remarkably tough to play through the injury, but he just doesnt look like hes going to pan out this year.

[pczach]

Running up the arc constantly without a countermove doesnt fit the defense either.

Harrison graded out as the best OLB in coverage last season. The eye test suggests that he was still quite good too. Why do people keep having this notion that Harrison cant cover. He has always been able to cover.

Heyward, Tuitt, Deebo, Watt, Hargrave, Hilton, and Williams all bring pressure much more consistently than Dupree. Maybe his shoulder is still bothering him, i was defending him earlier in the season because it sounded like he was being remarkably tough to play through the injury, but he just doesnt look like hes going to pan out this year.


Harrison can cover if he's only faking a rush and falling back to jump into the lane to protect the slant, or playing inside out to the sideline. This year, you routinely see Watt dropping into coverage in the middle of the field, with some of his drops very deep. Harrison just doesn't have the athleticism to do that. This defense has changed the requirements of each position compared to the way it was run under LeBeau.

I still believe there are ways to get him on the field, but not playing the position the way Watt does when he is on the field. The scheme needs to be altered to fit him in if he isn't just rushing the quarterback. If he just rushes the quarterback, then every OC and QB will know exactly what his responsibility is on the field. That is not a good thing.

For all we know, Butler will come up with a plan against Brady where Harrison is playing ILB sometimes and will be blitzing the quarterback with a full head of steam to push the pocket and run over RBs in pass protection. Let's just see what happens.

He's not playing for a reason.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Harrison can cover if he's only faking a rush and falling back to jump into the lane to protect the slant, or playing inside out to the sideline. This year, you routinely see Watt dropping into coverage in the middle of the field, with some of his drops very deep. Harrison just doesn't have the athleticism to do that. This defense has changed the requirements of each position compared to the way it was run under LeBeau.

I still believe there are ways to get him on the field, but not playing the position the way Watt does when he is on the field. The scheme needs to be altered to fit him in if he isn't just rushing the quarterback. If he just rushes the quarterback, then every OC and QB will know exactly what his responsibility is on the field. That is not a good thing.

For all we know, Butler will come up with a plan against Brady where Harrison is playing ILB sometimes and will be blitzing the quarterback with a full head of steam to push the pocket and run over RBs in pass protection. Let's just see what happens.

He's not playing for a reason.

fair. but inversely is it not predictable to see Dupree harmlessly perform a 10 yard dash past the pocket/overrun a play in general? there arent going to be hustle sacks against Brady. None. Especially without Shazier and/or Haden not in the game blanketing receivers. Harrison is still tremendous at setting the edge and his gap discipline is still alive and well, this is an area where we will actually improve with him on the field. I think were getting a little carried away with this notion that being more of some sort of pass rushing specialist will make a talented OLB significantly less effective

[Iron Steeler]

He doesn't fit the defense anymore. The OLB's need the ability to drop into coverage, something JH can't do.


FYI, Cam Heyward is the best pass rusher.

Yeh tell Deebo he cant do something... he will lead the league in Ints in 4 weeks.

[tube517]

939219228699316224

[BlackAndGold]

Running up the arc constantly without a countermove doesnt fit the defense either.

Harrison graded out as the best OLB in coverage last season. The eye test suggests that he was still quite good too. Why do people keep having this notion that Harrison cant cover. He has always been able to cover.

How many snaps did Harrison drop into coverage? and I'm not talking about going in to cover the flat, Watt, and Dupree are covering TE's and sometimes slot WR's. He would be playing right now if he could.

The Steelers are 2nd in the NFL in sacks. They're fine.

- - - Updated - - -

Dupree has 5 sacks while dropping into coverage 70% of the time.

[Psycho Ward 86]

939219228699316224

"What perks would you want" .... "Me"


:lol:

[Craic]

- - - Updated - - -

Dupree has 5 dong sacks while dropping into coverage 70% of the time.

Fixed it for you. :chuckle:

[Steeldude]

How many snaps did Harrison drop into coverage? and I'm not talking about going in to cover the flat, Watt, and Dupree are covering TE's and sometimes slot WR's. He would be playing right now if he could.

The Steelers are 2nd in the NFL in sacks. They're fine.

- - - Updated - - -

Dupree has 5 sacks while dropping into coverage 70% of the time.

Where did you get the 70% stat? http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/steelers-defensive-charting-catching

Coverage %

Dupree: 26.9% (89 of 331 snaps)
Harrison: 30.4% (7 of 23 snaps)

Rushes per pressure. Lower the number, the better

Harrison: 5.3
Dupree: 13.1

[43Hitman]

Where did you get the 70% stat? http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/steelers-defensive-charting-catching

Coverage %

Dupree: 26.9% (89 of 331 snaps)
Harrison: 30.4% (7 of 23 snaps)

Rushes per pressure. Lower the number, the better

Harrison: 5.3
Dupree: 13.1

Probably should pro rate those numbers as they are skewed because of the number of snaps. I agree with you that I don't see 70%(I think that was hyperbole to get a point acrossed) but comparing 23 snaps to 331 snaps is asking a bit much don't ya think?

[BlackAndGold]

Where did you get the 70% stat? http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12/steelers-defensive-charting-catching

Coverage %

Dupree: 26.9% (89 of 331 snaps)
Harrison: 30.4% (7 of 23 snaps)

Rushes per pressure. Lower the number, the better

Harrison: 5.3
Dupree: 13.1

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2017/12/04/kovacevic-quit-picking-man-bud-guys-hes-everything-steelers-asked/


Dupree estimated for me that he's been required to drop back into pass coverage "probably about 75 percent of the time," and I had that figure independently corroborated by our Christopher Carter, whose season-long film study found the same rate.

[43Hitman]

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2017/12/04/kovacevic-quit-picking-man-bud-guys-hes-everything-steelers-asked/

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link B&G. :drink:

I thought this paragraph summed up Steeler Nation pretty well.

"So let's start here: No, the stats aren't sexy, to say the least. And they'll be seen as even less in Pittsburgh, where our collective view of the edge rusher has been one of relentlessly pursuing the passer. Like that of Kevin Greene, maybe the most one-dimensional player in franchise history, who'd do nothing more than pin his ears back and chase the quarterback while his teammates, notably opposite-edge mate Greg Lloyd, did the grunt work. Or like the prime versions of LaMarr Woodley, Joey Porter, Jason Gildon and others.
We like our edge rushers with some splash."

[hawaiiansteeler]

James Harrison wouldn’t have stayed in Pittsburgh if he knew he’d be a bench warmer

Michael David Smith, ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports

Veteran linebacker James Harrison has barely played for the Steelers this season, getting on the field for just 29 snaps. He’s not happy about that.

Harrison told Michele Tafoya of NBC that if he had known he wasn’t going to play much this season, he would not have signed with the Steelers.

The 39-year-old Harrison signed a two-year contract with the Steelers in March, but he now says he would have signed with another team if he had realized how little he was going to get on the field in Pittsburgh this season.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/james-harrison-wouldn-t-stayed-192252835.html

[DesertSteel]

Two sacks on Brady and it will make the whole season worthwhile.

[BlackAndGold]

James Harrison wouldn’t have stayed in Pittsburgh if he knew he’d be a bench warmer

Michael David Smith, ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports

Veteran linebacker James Harrison has barely played for the Steelers this season, getting on the field for just 29 snaps. He’s not happy about that.

Harrison told Michele Tafoya of NBC that if he had known he wasn’t going to play much this season, he would not have signed with the Steelers.

The 39-year-old Harrison signed a two-year contract with the Steelers in March, but he now says he would have signed with another team if he had realized how little he was going to get on the field in Pittsburgh this season.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/james-harrison-wouldn-t-stayed-192252835.html

Where else would he have gone?

It was either Pittsburgh or retirement.

[43Hitman]

James Harrison wouldn’t have stayed in Pittsburgh if he knew he’d be a bench warmer

Michael David Smith, ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports

Veteran linebacker James Harrison has barely played for the Steelers this season, getting on the field for just 29 snaps. He’s not happy about that.

Harrison told Michele Tafoya of NBC that if he had known he wasn’t going to play much this season, he would not have signed with the Steelers.

The 39-year-old Harrison signed a two-year contract with the Steelers in March, but he now says he would have signed with another team if he had realized how little he was going to get on the field in Pittsburgh this season.

to read rest of article:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/james-harrison-wouldn-t-stayed-192252835.html

Media trying to drum up drama on the Steelers again.. :coffee:

[BnG_Hevn]

The reason they have him on bench is to bring along the future. If they don't bring the young pups up, they don't know what they have / they will end up elsewhere.

Even if you have to sacrifice a JH with fuel in the tank, it's better to sacrifice that 2 - 3 years in favor of the young studs for 8 - 10+ years.

[AtlantaDan]

Media trying to drum up drama on the Steelers again.. :coffee:

You need someone to give you something to drum about before you can start drumming

First Tomlin with Dungy, now this - everyone likes to get on the nationwide teevee broadcast

Ben holds back only because he saves his best stuff for the weekly Tuesday morning radio confessional :chuckle:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Probably should pro rate those numbers as they are skewed because of the number of snaps. I agree with you that I don't see 70%(I think that was hyperbole to get a point acrossed) but comparing 23 snaps to 331 snaps is asking a bit much don't ya think?

then lets prorate those stats for both players going into last season. thats a more than adequate sample size. Harrison is still a better pass rusher by a mile until he proves otherwise

[Steeldude]

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2017/12/04/kovacevic-quit-picking-man-bud-guys-hes-everything-steelers-asked/

So Dupree thinks so? I couldn't find anything on Carter's stats. 70% would mean Dupree dropped back 231 times out of 331 snaps. I think we all know without counting that 70% is way off.

[Steeldude]

Where else would he have gone?

It was either Pittsburgh or retirement.

Baltimore or any defense running a 3-4.

[BlackAndGold]

Baltimore or any defense running a 3-4.

No other team was calling for a 39 year old.

It was Pittsburgh or nowhere.

[AtlantaDan]

No other team was calling for a 39 year old.

It was Pittsburgh or nowhere.

^^^^
This

From his perspective it would be better to be playing but he still is drawing a nice payday

In 2017, Harrison will earn a base salary of $1,200,000, a signing bonus of $500,000 and a roster bonus of $500,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/james-harrison-3564/

[Mojouw]

So Dupree thinks so? I couldn't find anything on Carter's stats. 70% would mean Dupree dropped back 231 times out of 331 snaps. I think we all know without counting that 70% is way off.

So what is the correct #? 10%, 33%, 50%? I figure a third to half seems reasonable but I don’t know for sure. Just an impression from the last few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlackAndGold]

Tomlin on the OLB's/Harrison.


Q. In terms of what your defense asks of the outside linebackers, has their role evolved away from being primarily pass-rushers into guys who are asked to do more things in coverage?

A. Without question. And it’s evolved within the last decade, since I’ve been here. Outside linebacker was a rush-man’s position in the early part of my tenure. Guys like LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison were defensive-end-like. They rushed the vast majority of the time. With the evolution of spread football, read-option football, RPOs as the college guys call it – run-pass options – and all the empty backfield stuff, it has become a hybrid position, where they’re asked to do a lot of things: rush, drop in zone, play man-to-man. I just think it’s part of the evolution of football, and I think (outside linebackers) are the most significant components to the adjustments that defenses have made.


That’s why 10 years ago, there were maybe three or four 3-4 teams in the NFL, and that’s why probably half the teams in the NFL now are 3-4 teams. You better have that flexibility in terms of getting people on their feet and playing on their feet, because of the perimeter game, the spread game, and the RPO game.


Q. Within that answer, did you just explain to Steelers Nation why James Harrison isn’t playing a lot of snaps?


A. Or also why Bud Dupree doesn’t have 12 sacks or why T.J. Watt doesn’t have 12 sacks. That position probably is being redefined in a lot of ways by the game. Some of the plays we’ve seen T.J. Watt make in the passing game this year – the big-time interception in Cleveland in his first NFL game, the big-time breakup he had against Jordy Nelson in the Green Bay game a few weeks back – and 10 years ago you never would’ve seen LaMarr Woodley even in a position to make those plays. That’s just the evolution of football. I laugh a lot of times when people ask me, what’s wrong with the production of our outside linebackers? It lets me know these people don’t understand the evolution of the game of football, and I politely answer in some way.

http://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on/article-4/Tomlin-on-OLBs-green-dots-Cam-and-Coty/25105adf-5963-4cac-b948-7985b7c3cf1b

[Mojouw]

Tomlin on the OLB's.



http://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on/article-4/Tomlin-on-OLBs-green-dots-Cam-and-Coty/25105adf-5963-4cac-b948-7985b7c3cf1b

Kordell Stewart means that answer is invalid. Just coach speak to justify handing starting spots to lazy first round draft picks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

Two sacks on Brady and it will make the whole season worthwhile.

I'd love to see him turn back the clock and singlehandedly take over the Patriots game like he did against the Ravens in that Monday night game in 2007.

[Butch]

I'd love to see him turn back the clock and singlehandedly take over the Patriots game like he did against the Ravens in that Monday night game in 2007.
The 75th anniversary game and boy what a game that was!!!

[Steeldude]

No other team was calling for a 39 year old.

It was Pittsburgh or nowhere.

Did you speak to Harrison or his agent? How do you know Harrison didn't disregard other offers because of the way he felt about playing in Pittsburgh?

[Steeldude]

So what is the correct #? 10%, 33%, 50%? I figure a third to half seems reasonable but I don’t know for sure. Just an impression from the last few weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

According to SteelersDepot it's 26% for the season. I think Harrison was in the lower 30's last season.

I remember the in coverage excuse for Woodley and Jones. Why did the Steelers go after Dupree if it wasn't for his pass rushing ability? If they just want just coverage skills then go after the fastest most agile LBs.

IMO, Dupree will be gone when his initial contract is up.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

James came out a bit earlier with his shirt off in honor of Ryan. James is not your average 39 year old!

- - - Updated - - -


According to SteelersDepot it's 26% for the season. I think Harrison was in the lower 30's last season.

I remember the in coverage excuse for Woodley and Jones. Why did the Steelers go after Dupree if it wasn't for his pass rushing ability? If they just want just coverage skills then go after the fastest most agile LBs.

IMO, Dupree will be gone when his initial contract is up. I wanted Shane Ray over him even though he got in trouble smoking a few days before the draft. He isn't exactly lightning the league up either. No pun intended so guess I'm okay with the Dupree pick.

[Lady Steel]

It's time, Deebo. Light 'em up!

[43Hitman]

I hope he has a monster game tonight. We'll need it.