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View Full Version : Fowler: Steelers WR Martavis Bryant Told He’ll Be Involved In Week 10 Gameplan



polamalubeast
10-31-2017, 12:24 PM
925409697032691712

Craic
10-31-2017, 12:43 PM
Good.

Now we get to see if he responds properly. I can't help but think of Ike Taylor and his benching early in his career.

Steeldude
10-31-2017, 12:43 PM
More importantly will Harrison be involved? I don't care if Bryant is outright cut tomorrow, but I would rather sucker some team with a trade.

Shoes
10-31-2017, 01:20 PM
Good.

Now we get to see if he responds properly. I can't help but think of Ike Taylor and his benching early in his career.


Agreed. I think he is going to get it together. There seems to be many who would like to get rid of him and I understand that, but all it takes is one or two WR to go down and we are SOL. We need to keep Bryant for that reason even if you don't like him.

GBMelBlount
10-31-2017, 01:24 PM
Agreed. I think he is going to get it together. There seems to be many who would like to get rid of him and I understand that, but all it takes is one or two WR to go down and we are SOL. We need to keep Bryant for that reason even if you don't like him.

A lot of this also depends on Ben getting it together and also how many targets he will even get with our current heavy emphasis on the run game and Brown and Ju Ju on general hot streaks.

Mojouw
10-31-2017, 01:42 PM
This team currently has only 3 reliable options in the passing game.

1. AB - the best in the business
2. Bell - just amazing, but how much can one RB do?
3. JuJu - emerging but still has some drops and has NO ability to run those option routes that Hines and Heath made their living on. Not a slam on jujubee - he is just a rookie. Relying too heavily on a rookie WR is an anxious proposition.

That's it. All the TEs either can't get open or can't reliably hang onto the ball. Rogers is just a guy. Hunter and DHB can not be counted on for anything. I would rather have Coates at this point. At least he tried.

Bryant needs to come back and come back in a big way.

teegre
10-31-2017, 02:06 PM
Bryant had 15 TDs in his first 17 games played. That is amazing.

Before his suspension, the difference between "Bryant in the lineup" and "Bryant out of the lineup" was 7 points. That is mind-boggling. To put that in perspective, when a franchise QB is expected to be out, Las Vegas sets the difference as only 4 points.

So... I hope that he he responds to JuJu's breakout game by having a resurgence of his former self: 3 for 98 yards, 1 TD.

AtlantaDan
10-31-2017, 02:39 PM
Just a smokescreen for the upcoming trade if Paul Zeise of the Post-Gazette (possibly the worst sportswriter in western PA and the guy who previously wrote the Steelers needed to sign Kaepernick immediately) is to be believed

Paul Zeise: The Steelers have mere hours to trade Martavis Bryant

The Steelers have proven through eight games they can win without Bryant. ...

At one point, Bryant was worth that risk, but he no longer is, and the Steelers need to acknowledge as much and move on.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/zeise-is-right/2017/10/31/martavis-bryant-trade-deadline-steelers-juju-smith-schuster/stories/201710310150#

If the P-G pays for this rather than just allowing Zeise to post online for free no wonder most newspapers are dying

teegre
11-01-2017, 06:38 AM
Again... why would they’d trade him for anything less than a R2 pick???

He has shown that he can be a difference maker.

He has more physical skills than any receiver on the team. AB plays to 100% of his talents, but even he can’t do what Bryant could do if Bryant ever reaches his full potential (which is unlikely... but, still).

He costs us close to nothing. Really. And, we own his rights for a full other season.

He isn’t causing any lockerroom problems. The comments from Foster tell me that the rest of the team WILL move forward with or without him (it’s Bryant’s job to assimilate to the rest of the team).

SUMMATION:
With AB & JuJu as #1 & #2.., name another team who has a #3 anywhere near as promising as Bryant.

Count Steeler
11-01-2017, 06:41 AM
Wonder what the Bills would have offered for him. 3rd and 7th for Benjamin. Then trade Hunter for Coates and a 6th to the Browns.

BlackAndGold
11-01-2017, 10:34 AM
Since JuJu mostly plays in the slot of course MB is still in the plans. MB is the deep threat defenses have to account for.

Hopefully after the bye things start to click.

polamalubeast
11-01-2017, 01:05 PM
Since JuJu mostly plays in the slot of course MB is still in the plans. MB is the deep threat defenses have to account for.

Hopefully after the bye things start to click.


“I will say this too, a lot of Juju’s catches didn’t come at Martavis’ position. Even when Martavis is playing, Juju works inside a lot too. That big touchdown, that was not Martavis’ position. We can’t sit here and say, ‘Ok, look what he did and Martavis didn’t do because he was catching balls at different positions.”

Despite Mike Tomlin’s comments after the game about Martavis in which he expressed skepticism about whether or not Martavis can contribute moving forward, Ben has nothing but confidence in his receiver.

“I’m excited, I think he’d going to have a great second half. I mean I need to have a great second half. If we both have great second halves, I think we can be a successful offense.”


read more

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/11/01/roethlisberger-excited-for-juju-hoping-for-big-second-half-from-martavis/#.WfoKChIBqoY.twitter

Mojouw
11-01-2017, 01:39 PM
As Pbeast and BandGold said, MB and Juju are not mutually exclusive.

Juju and Eli Rogers maybe. In fact, let's be perfectly honest about this -- Eli Rogers is "meh" at best.

He is not good as a returner. He can not seem to consistently get open and/or hang onto the ball as either the #2 or #3 option.

If the Steelers really want to make a SB run, the second half of the season has to be focused on how to feed Bell and some WR combo of AB-Juju-MB. Despite what we may think of the personalities involved, that is the best path towards this offense steamrolling people. Hunter, DHB, and Rogers need to be nailed to the bench.

DesertSteel
11-01-2017, 02:31 PM
Hunter, DHB, and Rogers need to be nailed to the bench.
Amen!!!!!!!

tube517
11-01-2017, 02:33 PM
I may be in the minority but I liked Ayers better than Rogers. I wanted to see Ayers as a KR or even PR.

I guess they think Rogers would be the future slot and Juju at the #2 when Bryant eventually leaves???

I don't know. Rogers just gets no separation and minimal YAC (no explosion) from what I've seen.

DesertSteel
11-01-2017, 02:52 PM
I may be in the minority but I liked Ayers better than Rogers. I wanted to see Ayers as a KR or even PR.

I guess they think Rogers would be the future slot and Juju at the #2 when Bryant eventually leaves???

I don't know. Rogers just gets no separation and minimal YAC (no explosion) from what I've seen.
They're all a dime a dozen. Easy to pickup as UFA's.

43Hitman
11-01-2017, 03:33 PM
I may be in the minority but I liked Ayers better than Rogers. I wanted to see Ayers as a KR or even PR.

I guess they think Rogers would be the future slot and Juju at the #2 when Bryant eventually leaves???

I don't know. Rogers just gets no separation and minimal YAC (no explosion) from what I've seen.
I liked Ayers too, I'm not really sure if I liked him more that Rogers though... With all the depth problems the Patriots are having at wideout, you would have thought Ayers would have been activated and making noise by now.

tube517
11-01-2017, 03:52 PM
I liked Ayers too, I'm not really sure if I liked him more that Rogers though... With all the depth problems the Patriots are having at wideout, you would have thought Ayers would have been activated and making noise by now.

Ayers was released by the Pats.

43Hitman
11-01-2017, 03:54 PM
Ayers was released by the Pats.
Huh. I had no idea. I wonder if they picked him up only to glean info from him about our new schemes? Like the Ravens used to do.

tube517
11-01-2017, 03:57 PM
Huh. I had no idea. I wonder if they picked him up only to glean info from him about our new schemes? Like the Ravens used to do.

Dec. 11, Ayers will be brought back to Foxboro. :chuckle:

43Hitman
11-01-2017, 03:59 PM
Dec. 11, Ayers will be brought back to Foxboro. :chuckle:
:chuckle: And he rips 2 returns for TD's

tube517
11-01-2017, 04:17 PM
:chuckle: And he rips 2 returns for TD's

And SU (actually every Steeler forum) Game Day thread implodes! :chuckle:

43Hitman
11-01-2017, 05:05 PM
And SU (actually every Steeler forum) Game Day thread implodes! :chuckle:
I can see it now, little mushroom clouds popping up all over the United States. :lol:

ALLD
11-01-2017, 05:31 PM
I think the coaches meant they were going have Martavis watch Juju's bicycle during the game to make sure nobody stole it.

Shoes
11-01-2017, 07:47 PM
Again... why would they’d trade him for anything less than a R2 pick???

He has shown that he can be a difference maker.

He has more physical skills than any receiver on the team. AB plays to 100% of his talents, but even he can’t do what Bryant could do if Bryant ever reaches his full potential (which is unlikely... but, still).

He costs us close to nothing. Really. And, we own his rights for a full other season.

He isn’t causing any lockerroom problems. The comments from Foster tell me that the rest of the team WILL move forward with or without him (it’s Bryant’s job to assimilate to the rest of the team).

SUMMATION:
With AB & JuJu as #1 & #2.., name another team who has a #3 anywhere near as promising as Bryant.

Post of the day! Chest Bump

86WARD
11-02-2017, 08:37 PM
That's it. All the TEs either can't get open or can't reliably hang onto the ball. Rogers is just a guy. Hunter and DHB can not be counted on for anything. I would rather have Coates at this point. At least he tried.

Bryant needs to come back and come back in a big way.

First I’d agree that Bryant needs to be incorporated more into the offense. However, your comments about the TEs (ie: James) Im not really understanding. James is being incorporated into the offense almost at the same rate that Miller was In 2014 and 2015. Miller was averaging about 5 targets a game and catching almost 4 of those balls. James’ current numbers are very similar to that with the exception of the KC and Cin games. As far as TE receiving goes, there’s not a real drop off from when Heath was here the last couple seasons. I’m pretty sure Heath averaged more per catch but as far as receiving dependability, they’re almost identical as of late.

Psycho Ward 86
11-02-2017, 09:22 PM
trash Martavis all you want, but the Colts game plus a bye week in front of it is perfect for a confidence building game. We all know Davis is going to have to square up on Brown as per usual. And he's going to get cooked...as per usual. Bryant had a huge game the last time he played the colts as well.

teegre
11-03-2017, 06:38 AM
trash Martavis all you want, but the Colts game plus a bye week in front of it is perfect for a confidence building game. We all know Davis is going to have to square up on Brown as per usual. And he's going to get cooked...as per usual. Bryant had a huge game the last time he played the colts as well.

It’s akin to a batting slump.

One good game... heck, one good reception, and Martavis could once again find his groove.

Moose
11-03-2017, 08:35 AM
As I said in another post, I just have a feeling that Bryant is going to be an asset to this team. I can see him getting some playing time, getting his timing and rhythm up to par with Ben, and helping us to win division and head to the play-offs. Then hopefully win the play-offs and to the SB where Bryant catches a winning TD......i.e. S.Holmes. I'm not a fan of Bryant's, he has to prove himself as did Brown, Bell and JuJu, but I'm willing to see him play now that he's been warned and given another chance. Hopefully he'll be another weapon on this offensive arsenal that gives Ben more power to score TD's. Could be a fun second half of season on the road to the SB !

Mojouw
11-03-2017, 09:39 AM
First I’d agree that Bryant needs to be incorporated more into the offense. However, your comments about the TEs (ie: James) Im not really understanding. James is being incorporated into the offense almost at the same rate that Miller was In 2014 and 2015. Miller was averaging about 5 targets a game and catching almost 4 of those balls. James’ current numbers are very similar to that with the exception of the KC and Cin games. As far as TE receiving goes, there’s not a real drop off from when Heath was here the last couple seasons. I’m pretty sure Heath averaged more per catch but as far as receiving dependability, they’re almost identical as of late.

Maybe the rate stats are similar but James is no where near as reliable as Heath was. His hands are suspect and he does not see the "holes" in the coverage the same way that Heath does.

To me, it seems the Steelers offense needs their TE to do one of two things in the passing game:

1. Be a seam ripper - the Ladarius Green method of contribution
2. Make the defense pay for leaving patches of open grass in their zone schemes - the entire second half of Heath Miller's career.

But what the team currently has is Grimble who is too unreliable to take on the Green role and James who alternates between drops and not seeing what needs to be seen to play the Miller role.

And you all already know my thoughts on the blocking. Honestly, everyone wants to wring their hands over MB - but in a sense he was doing 60% of his job prior to the benching. He was helping to dictate coverages. The TE's and slot WRs are not doing their jobs it seems like. The next important catch Eli Rogers makes will be his 1st or 2nd this season. The lack of consistency and blocking from the TE position is actively causing the offense to sputter. Sure, it may not have happened on a ton of 3rd downs - but missed blocks on 1st or 2nd down have contributed to getting behind the chains.

All the folks who banged the drum for Rogers this off-season need to help me understand what he brings to the table that isn't overwhelmingly average and non-consequential. It is entirely possible I am not seeing it or Ben R is just not putting the ball his way.

86WARD
11-03-2017, 09:58 AM
I won’t argue that James is near the player Heath was. It’s not close. However, the end result...however ugly it has been, is very similar when it comes to targets and completions. His hands haven’t been terrible. He has a catch percentage of 71% which is identical to Millers career percentage. Again, not saying that they are close to the same player but James’ receiving production has been very similar to that of Miller.

Mojouw
11-03-2017, 10:22 AM
I won’t argue that James is near the player Heath was. It’s not close. However, the end result...however ugly it has been, is very similar when it comes to targets and completions. His hands haven’t been terrible. He has a catch percentage of 71% which is identical to Millers career percentage. Again, not saying that they are close to the same player but James’ receiving production has been very similar to that of Miller.

I'm sure I am being biased. I really thought that James would be "good enough" or even more than that this year and didn't feel that TE would be that big of an issue this season. However, I'm totally reversing course on that and I know believe that James and the lack of overall effective TE play is a major part of the problem on offense.

Entirely possible that I am letting that belief cloud my perception of James' play.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-03-2017, 10:34 AM
I'm sure I am being biased. I really thought that James would be "good enough" or even more than that this year and didn't feel that TE would be that big of an issue this season. However, I'm totally reversing course on that and I know believe that James and the lack of overall effective TE play is a major part of the problem on offense.

Entirely possible that I am letting that belief cloud my perception of James' play.


Good on you for recognizing that. I honestly have always seen James as a #2 TE talent and felt the Steelers needed to get somebody that is a #1 for the past couple seasons. They tried to find that #1 guy in Green, but IMO needed to go back to the drawing board again in the offseason.

Born2Steel
11-03-2017, 12:26 PM
What is the role of the TE in this offense? If AB has to be doubled most games, MB is the guy that takes the coverage deep, JuJu/Rogers is the threat over the middle, and Bell does what Bell does, where is the role for the TE? Not trying to downplay the position at all, just curious where the 'holes' are that a great TE is going to fill. IMO, what we need from our TEs is a steady blocker that can block well on the move. As for the passing game, we are pretty much getting what the average NFL TE brings already. Guess I just want the details filled in a bit more.

Mojouw
11-03-2017, 03:25 PM
What is the role of the TE in this offense? If AB has to be doubled most games, MB is the guy that takes the coverage deep, JuJu/Rogers is the threat over the middle, and Bell does what Bell does, where is the role for the TE? Not trying to downplay the position at all, just curious where the 'holes' are that a great TE is going to fill. IMO, what we need from our TEs is a steady blocker that can block well on the move. As for the passing game, we are pretty much getting what the average NFL TE brings already. Guess I just want the details filled in a bit more.

Well first off, James can't block any better than he could last year. So that's a "not really much at all".

Heath and Ben made a living just ripping apart the soft gaps in between zone defenders. Kind of those spots where the LB thought someone else had him, someone else thought the LB had him, etc.

The throw against the Lions that Ben "missed" right before the TD to Juju is a great example. The route seemed to call for James to break towards the sideline. That was there, but the "gaps" in the coverage also allowed James to carry his route down the field along the hashes. Right where Ben threw the ball. James didn't recognize the same thing and an opportunity was missed. Now, it turned out to be no big deal, because the next play was a TD. But the point remains that it seems like I can remember about once a game that Ben "misses" to James and then the camera cuts to Ben and he has this look on his face like "Dude, where were you going? How are you not seeing what the defense is giving you?"

As I said earlier, my growing dislike of the level of play from the TE position most likely has me coming down to hard on James, but that's where I am at.

In the Steelers offense, no matter how high-flying, they have always needed someone to work the soft parts of the zone between the LBs and DBs between the hash marks. I don't see anyone really working that part of the field this year. James, Rogers, and Grimble are MIA. Now is that their level of play? Ben being entranced with getting the ball to AB and Bell? I don't know - but I do know that if this team doesn't start making some hay in the middle of the field, its not going to get better on offense. I doubt you can consistently move the ball on NFL defenses only on the perimeter.

pczach
11-03-2017, 07:18 PM
Well first off, James can't block any better than he could last year. So that's a "not really much at all".

Heath and Ben made a living just ripping apart the soft gaps in between zone defenders. Kind of those spots where the LB thought someone else had him, someone else thought the LB had him, etc.

The throw against the Lions that Ben "missed" right before the TD to Juju is a great example. The route seemed to call for James to break towards the sideline. That was there, but the "gaps" in the coverage also allowed James to carry his route down the field along the hashes. Right where Ben threw the ball. James didn't recognize the same thing and an opportunity was missed. Now, it turned out to be no big deal, because the next play was a TD. But the point remains that it seems like I can remember about once a game that Ben "misses" to James and then the camera cuts to Ben and he has this look on his face like "Dude, where were you going? How are you not seeing what the defense is giving you?"

As I said earlier, my growing dislike of the level of play from the TE position most likely has me coming down to hard on James, but that's where I am at.

In the Steelers offense, no matter how high-flying, they have always needed someone to work the soft parts of the zone between the LBs and DBs between the hash marks. I don't see anyone really working that part of the field this year. James, Rogers, and Grimble are MIA. Now is that their level of play? Ben being entranced with getting the ball to AB and Bell? I don't know - but I do know that if this team doesn't start making some hay in the middle of the field, its not going to get better on offense. I doubt you can consistently move the ball on NFL defenses only on the perimeter.


All good points.

When Ben was young, he had Hines Ward and Heath to find the soft spot in zones. Ben used to create those opportunities for Hines by extending the plays and Hines would always find a void in the coverage. Ben's ability to do that have given Ward a shot at the HOF. Heath was also a great option for Ben. He was a great blocker in the run game, he made all the right reads in the defense to adjust his route, he caught everything thrown his way, and he could still beat coverage with his athletic ability and the use of play action.

Now that Ben no longer extends plays as often or as well as he once did, it is important that all his receivers know their assignments and are able to run precise routes to gain separation and keep plays on time in the passing game. He can no longer consistently make up for the inability of receivers to beat their defenders and get open on their own. AB has been the one consistent weapon before the emergence of JuJu. The revolving door of second and third receivers has really caused timing issues and chemistry issues with Ben IMO. Remember, every receiver runs the same route, but every receiver is at a different yardage because of differences in acceleration and top end speed, particularly on the deep ball. They all come out of their breaks differently and they all run at different speeds. When you combine the obvious problems with not seeing the same things that Ben does and not making the same adjustments, I'm sure it's very frustrating for him. Much of this has happened because of the Bryant suspension and the lack of quality play in his return, along with the laundry list of WR's that have attempted to take his place unsuccessfully and a ton of youthful mistakes.

Ben may have started to decline, but I don't think it is nearly as much as others believe. If they can get a group of receivers that can stay together and master their assignments and reads, I believe things will get much better very quickly.

The dream scenario is having AB, JuJu, and Bryant on the field at the same time, with Bryant being able to provide the field stretching and the threat of the home run on every play, and getting his head right. That is a scary group if they are operating at maximum efficiency and giving great effort. We know 2 out of the 3 will be giving everything they have and do the work. We all know who the wildcard is. Here we are years into Bryant's career, and the team still doesn't know what they are getting from play to play. If he can just focus himself...

The tight ends are more complimentary players from a talent perspective. They don't have a one player solution that can be an all-around TE to block, catch, and never come off the field. However, I think that Jesse James and McDonald are enough for now if the WR group can come together.

The only thing I know is that Ben has always distributed the ball to whoever is open and reliable. I think he has lost confidence in many players because of mental mistakes or drops in key situations. They must have dropped at least 6 or 7 TD passes this year. They are getting close offensively, but I really believe that they need to clean up mistakes. When that happens, Ben is going to complete at a higher percentage, and touchdowns are going to come. Confidence in where your targets are going to be means everything to a quarterback, particularly a quarterback that makes anticipation throws. This wouldn't be as much of an issue to a lesser quarterback that needs to see the target open before he throws the ball. The better quarterbacks throw the ball before the target is open.

Mojouw
11-03-2017, 07:43 PM
All good points.

When Ben was young, he had Hines Ward and Heath to find the soft spot in zones. Ben used to create those opportunities for Hines by extending the plays and Hines would always find a void in the coverage. Ben's ability to do that have given Ward a shot at the HOF. Heath was also a great option for Ben. He was a great blocker in the run game, he made all the right reads in the defense to adjust his route, he caught everything thrown his way, and he could still beat coverage with his athletic ability and the use of play action.

Now that Ben no longer extends plays as often or as well as he once did, it is important that all his receivers know their assignments and are able to run precise routes to gain separation and keep plays on time in the passing game. He can no longer consistently make up for the inability of receivers to beat their defenders and get open on their own. AB has been the one consistent weapon before the emergence of JuJu. The revolving door of second and third receivers has really caused timing issues and chemistry issues with Ben IMO. Remember, every receiver runs the same route, but every receiver is at a different yardage because of differences in acceleration and top end speed, particularly on the deep ball. They all come out of their breaks differently and they all run at different speeds. When you combine the obvious problems with not seeing the same things that Ben does and not making the same adjustments, I'm sure it's very frustrating for him. Much of this has happened because of the Bryant suspension and the lack of quality play in his return, along with the laundry list of WR's that have attempted to take his place unsuccessfully and a ton of youthful mistakes.

Ben may have started to decline, but I don't think it is nearly as much as others believe. If they can get a group of receivers that can stay together and master their assignments and reads, I believe things will get much better very quickly.

The dream scenario is having AB, JuJu, and Bryant on the field at the same time, with Bryant being able to provide the field stretching and the threat of the home run on every play, and getting his head right. That is a scary group if they are operating at maximum efficiency and giving great effort. We know 2 out of the 3 will be giving everything they have and do the work. We all know who the wildcard is. Here we are years into Bryant's career, and the team still doesn't know what they are getting from play to play. If he can just focus himself...

The tight ends are more complimentary players from a talent perspective. They don't have a one player solution that can be an all-around TE to block, catch, and never come off the field. However, I think that Jesse James and McDonald are enough for now if the WR group can come together.

The only thing I know is that Ben has always distributed the ball to whoever is open and reliable. I think he has lost confidence in many players because of mental mistakes or drops in key situations. They must have dropped at least 6 or 7 TD passes this year. They are getting close offensively, but I really believe that they need to clean up mistakes. When that happens, Ben is going to complete at a higher percentage, and touchdowns are going to come. Confidence in where your targets are going to be means everything to a quarterback, particularly a quarterback that makes anticipation throws. This wouldn't be as much of an issue to a lesser quarterback that needs to see the target open before he throws the ball. The better quarterbacks throw the ball before the target is open.

I couldn't agree with all of this any more. Great post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ALLD
11-04-2017, 09:43 AM
They benched Bryant early in his career because he could not get his head on straight then either. He has great athletic talent, but is a mental case.

I had a girlfriend like that for 7 years, but had to ditch her because she was whacked out and got unbearable.

hawaiiansteeler
11-12-2017, 10:52 PM
Embattled Steelers WR Martavis Bryant shows how 'special' he can be

CHRIS ADAMSKI | Sunday, Nov. 12, 2017

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/12941921-74/embattled-steelers-wr-martavis-bryant-shows-how-special-he-can-be