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polamalubeast
10-23-2017, 07:45 AM
The only thing the lions are good this year are the turnovers in defense.Only the Jaguars have more turnovers than the Lions.If Roethlisberger protects the ball and Bell is involved, that should be enough.They need to be better in the 3rd down and short too.

For the Lions offense, the lions have no running game and our pass defense has been great this year, so I am confident that our defense will continue to play well.

Moose
10-23-2017, 10:56 AM
The only thing the lions are good this year are the turnovers in defense.Only the Jaguars have more turnovers than the Lions.If Roethlisberger protects the ball and Bell is involved, that should be enough.They need to be better in the 3rd down and short too.

For the Lions offense, the lions have no running game and our pass defense has been great this year, so I am confident that our defense will continue to play well.

You hit the nail on the head big time....."they need to be better in the 3rd down and short " ! It's getting really pathetic seeing this team drive down to the end zone and end up with 3's. We left 20pts on the field in the bunghole game......5 times getting down field and ending up with FGs. Luckily, that 20 pts. didn't hurt us.

polamalubeast
10-23-2017, 04:22 PM
922569973834371072

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-23-2017, 05:03 PM
You hit the nail on the head big time....."they need to be better in the 3rd down and short " ! It's getting really pathetic seeing this team drive down to the end zone and end up with 3's. We left 20pts on the field in the bunghole game......5 times getting down field and ending up with FGs. Luckily, that 20 pts. didn't hurt us.

Yes, its always better if you can get TD's instead of FG's, but do you know how many of the top 30 players in scoring last year were position players?? Only 3. Yes, 27 of the top 30 in NFL scoring in 2016 were Kickers.

FG's happen and NFL defenses find ways to make it more difficult to score TD's on a shorter field, so its really not that surprising that kickers are making 25-40 FG's a season. With a good defense, you can take multiple FG's and win games instead of gambling on 4th and goal and getting nothing like KC and CIN have done the past couple weeks.

Have to win the turnover battle with the Lions and get pressure on Stafford and take whatever points they can. Hopefully TD's, but 3 counts too.

Psycho Ward 86
10-23-2017, 07:08 PM
Yes, its always better if you can get TD's instead of FG's, but do you know how many of the top 30 players in scoring last year were position players?? Only 3. Yes, 27 of the top 30 in NFL scoring in 2016 were Kickers.

FG's happen and NFL defenses find ways to make it more difficult to score TD's on a shorter field, so its really not that surprising that kickers are making 25-40 FG's a season. With a good defense, you can take multiple FG's and win games instead of gambling on 4th and goal and getting nothing like KC and CIN have done the past couple weeks.

Have to win the turnover battle with the Lions and get pressure on Stafford and take whatever points they can. Hopefully TD's, but 3 counts too.

You say that like its surprising. This is typical of any NFL season, pretty much regardless of era. Were basically at a point where the players are going to have to overcome Haley's ineptitude to become good in the red zone. We need the redzone efficiency even more than usual because the big plays just havent been coming, and that used to help us make up for the lack of red zone scoring

- - - Updated - - -

Overall i like the matchup against the Lions as well. But theres one major variable that could throw a wrench into the whole thing: Ben sucks on the road. Good DB's and pass rushers. I hope Gilbert is back for this one

polamalubeast
10-23-2017, 07:11 PM
Overall i like the matchup against the Lions as well. But theres one major variable that could throw a wrench into the whole thing: Ben sucks on the road. Good DB's and pass rushers. I hope Gilbert is back for this one

With the way that Bell and our defense are playing right now, Ben just needs to do what he did against Baltimore and KC and it should be enough

And Ben is much better on the road that at home this year too(passing rating of 75.1 at home,88.2 on the road)

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/2017/

Psycho Ward 86
10-23-2017, 07:22 PM
With the way that Bell and our defense are playing right now, Ben just needs to do what he did against Baltimore and KC and it should be enough

And Ben is much better on the road that at home this year too(passing rating of 75.1 at home,88.2 on the road)

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/2017/

A negligible improvement from the past 2 seasons. He's been pedestrian all around with the exception of a handful of vintage Ben throws per game. Hes going to need to have a couple of team-carrying games if we want the playoffs to go through us: http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethlisberger/2506109/situationalstats

ALLD
10-23-2017, 07:28 PM
Ben will get better as the season progresses and the team gels as long as he has time like he had this week. He did not hold onto the ball too much either.

Going back 3 weeks most here said we needed more run game. Hand the ball to Bell and magic happens. Even Conner did well and he should have closed out the 4th to give Bell a break.

polamalubeast
10-23-2017, 07:28 PM
A negligible improvement from the past 2 seasons. He's been pedestrian all around with the exception of a handful of vintage Ben throws per game. Hes going to need to have a couple of team-carrying games if we want the playoffs to go through us: http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethlisberger/2506109/situationalstats

The only team in the AFC against which he will have to be amazing is against the pats and it will take a team effort to beat the pats

For the rest, no team scares me in the AFC,the steelers have the number of the chiefs (in Pittsburgh or in KC) in the Andy Reid / Alex Smith era.

Psycho Ward 86
10-23-2017, 08:00 PM
Connor seems to have been excellent spelling Bell on what few carries he's gotten all season.
I think he ought to be getting at least double the carries he's getting now. I get the whole limiting his playing time because he needs to improve his pass blocking thing but if the other team knows were just going to run all day why not give it to them with some fresh legs? Lest we forget Bell pretty much has never finished a full season healthy.

These positional "speciality" roles are so damn stupid too. Watson becoming the 3rd and short specialist was just really strange. Nothing against Watson, hes earned his roster spot. Thats such a nuanced situation to be used for exclusively, about as dumb as when some fans that thought Justin Hunter might become a cute red zone weapon. Hopefully Tomlin/Haley dont go Larry Johnson on Bell's career. I understand the need to lean on the run, but Connor has earned carries.

AtlantaDan
10-23-2017, 08:08 PM
Hopefully Tomlin/Haley dont go Larry Johnson on Bell's career. I understand the need to lean on the run, but Connor has earned carries.

Agreed Tomlin may be running the wheels off Bell, which caught up with the Steelers in January last season. I also would like to see more Conner.

But when you have someone working on a one year contract rather than the first year of a long term deal, where you would have provided a big signing bonus that would be significant dead money under the cap if Bell is burned out quickly, the financial incentives not to wear him out obviously are different.

It's a business decision

Psycho Ward 86
10-23-2017, 08:13 PM
Agreed Tomlin may be running the wheels off Bell, which caught up with the Steelers in January last season. I also would like to see more Conner.

But when you have someone working on a one year contract rather than the first year of a long term deal, where you would have provided a big signing bonus that would be significant dead money under the cap if Bell is burned out quickly, the financial incentives not to wear him out obviously are different.

It's a business decision

Im not sure I follow this logic. Its been my understanding that it would be mutually beneficial to the Steelers and Bell if his touches dont fly off the charts. Bell hasnt made it through any of his 4 years in the league without a major injury, pretty much all of them having major repercussions on how our season went. History says it will happen again (maybe even if we give him some breathers, but most definitely if we put him in Larry Johnson territory). Time to buck the trend

GBMelBlount
10-23-2017, 08:16 PM
Ben will get better as the season progresses and the team gels as long as he has time like he had this week.

He did not hold onto the ball too much either.

Going back 3 weeks most here said we needed more run game. Hand the ball to Bell and magic happens. Even Conner did well and he should have closed out the 4th to give Bell a break.

Yes!

AtlantaDan
10-23-2017, 08:29 PM
Im not sure I follow this logic. Its been my understanding that it would be mutually beneficial to the Steelers and Bell if his touches dont fly off the charts. Bell hasnt made it through any of his 4 years in the league without a major injury, pretty much all of them having major repercussions on how our season went. History says it will happen again (maybe even if we give him some breathers, but most definitely if we put him in Larry Johnson territory). Time to buck the trend

If you are not going to meet his price and at best you can afford to franchise him for one more year in 2018 why would the Steelers care whether his performance falls off the cliff after that. There obviously has been other drama since Bell reported, but the Steelers leaking their offer for which they thought they had a deal was an indication the contract negotiations were pretty acrimonious. That made a long term deal in 2018 less likely even without Bell reaffirming his greatness the past several weeks to increase his market value.

As you note about injuries, only last season could arguably be tied to overwork - Bell injured his foot in preseason his rookie year, had his knee taken out by the Bengals on a reception across the middle at the end of the 2014 season, and had Burfict take him out in week 8 in 2015 - he could go at any time even if you put him on a pitch count for number of carries.

So given how quickly backs go out of the league in today's NFL getting what you can out of Bell while you can is very defensible - not having a long term investment in him is a further incentive to do so

st33lersguy
10-23-2017, 08:37 PM
Detroit is beatable, but they are good enough to where we shouldn't expect this to be easy. Even playing a non-conference game up 2.5 games in the division this is still important to keep up with the Chiefs and the Cheats for a bye

AtlantaDan
10-23-2017, 08:45 PM
Detroit is beatable, but they are good enough to where we shouldn't expect this to be easy. Even playing a non-conference game up 2.5 games in the division this is still important to keep up with the Chiefs and the Cheats for a bye

Lions coming off a bye week allows them to heal up and Stafford will be a test for the pass defense - Lions #8 in points scored per game

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/det/detroit-lions

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2017, 12:38 AM
You say that like its surprising. This is typical of any NFL season, pretty much regardless of era. Were basically at a point where the players are going to have to overcome Haley's ineptitude to become good in the red zone. We need the redzone efficiency even more than usual because the big plays just havent been coming, and that used to help us make up for the lack of red zone scoring

- - - Updated - - -


Its not surprising, but a lot of Steeler fans will look at Boswell kicking 30FG this season and say ....."we left 120 points on the field this season", rather than appreciate that kicking FG's is part of winning in the NFL.

86WARD
10-24-2017, 06:53 AM
Its not surprising, but a lot of Steeler fans will look at Boswell kicking 30FG this season and say ....."we left 120 points on the field this season", rather than appreciate that kicking FG's is part of winning in the NFL.

I am one of those people. I look at FGs in the red zone as a step closer to a loss. I love Boswell...have since day one, but I’m definitely an “antifieldgoalite.” Sure I like them when they win the game, but other than that...I don’t want them...lol.

AtlantaDan
10-24-2017, 08:38 AM
Steelers now #30 in 2017 red zone drives resulting in TDs (42%)

Rate of 23% at Heinz

Conversion rate for past three seasons was 54% (2016), 57% (2015), and 51% (2014)

Rank #17 in points per game (21)

Points per game ranking in previous seasons was #12 - 24.4 ppg (2016), #7 - 25.4 ppg (2015), and #7 - 26.6 ppg (2014)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2017, 08:56 AM
I am one of those people. I look at FGs in the red zone as a step closer to a loss. I love Boswell...have since day one, but I’m definitely an “antifieldgoalite.” Sure I like them when they win the game, but other than that...I don’t want them...lol.

OK, so you are OK with FG if the Steelers win the game, because you know the outcome from what you are saying. Steelers coaches don't have the luxury of knowing the future and sometimes when you have a 12 point lead or 4 points and have confidence in your defense, you play for the FG and don't think of it as leaving points on the field. I just don't understand why the hate for 3 points, when its part of the game and often part of getting the win, because the other team is trying pretty hard to prevent TD's too. :noidea:

teegre
10-24-2017, 09:07 AM
re: FGs vs TDs

There’s a reason that Georgia Tech’s all-time leading scorer (Harrison Butker) went undrafted... while Megatron went third overall.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2017, 09:11 AM
re: FGs vs TDs

There’s a reason that Georgia Tech’s all-time leading scorer (Harrison Butker) went undrafted... while Megatron went third overall.

True. I guess Calvin Johnson and Adam Vinitieri can talk about draft positions and Super Bowl rings the next time they meet up.

teegre
10-24-2017, 09:13 AM
True. I guess Calvin Johnson and Adam Vinitieri can talk about draft positions and Super Bowl rings the next time they meet up.

Likewise, so can Bubby Brister and Dan Marino.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2017, 09:29 AM
Likewise, so can Bubby Brister and Dan Marino.

Yes, but you know who accounted for career points in the NFL don't you?

Moose
10-24-2017, 10:15 AM
Yes, its always better if you can get TD's instead of FG's, but do you know how many of the top 30 players in scoring last year were position players?? Only 3. Yes, 27 of the top 30 in NFL scoring in 2016 were Kickers.

FG's happen and NFL defenses find ways to make it more difficult to score TD's on a shorter field, so its really not that surprising that kickers are making 25-40 FG's a season. With a good defense, you can take multiple FG's and win games instead of gambling on 4th and goal and getting nothing like KC and CIN have done the past couple weeks.

Have to win the turnover battle with the Lions and get pressure on Stafford and take whatever points they can. Hopefully TD's, but 3 counts too.

As you said in your beginning sentence..."it's alway's better to get TD's instead of FG's". Now as far as the rest, who cares about the 'top' scorers ? That has nothing to do with our STEELER's and the possibility of LOSING a game because of scoring FG instead of TD's. Come on man, do the math. Opponent scores 1 TD and you score 2 FG's, guess what ? You lose ! Sure if it's 4th down and long, BUT you are in FG range you go for the 3. But, if you are in the red zone and you just moved the ball with no problems all the way down the field, as we did against cincy, you have to get a TD. We beat cincy sure, but that game was never in the bag until at the end when Dalton decided to toss the ball on 4th down to the upper seats. Where as, if we would have put a few of those 5 FGs into 7pts, that game would have been done by 3rd qtr. You are not going to win a bunch of games scoring just FG's while opponent scores TD's. PLUS, don't you think the player's themselves would like to put it in the endzone after all the work getting there ? I'm sure they really don't like settling for 3's. Granted, it's great to have the Boss tacking the points when needed, but I'm telling you to compete with the real good teams, and to win in post season play, and win a SB...you better get some plays working that will hammer you TD's !

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 10:21 AM
Of course, I'd like the steelers to score more TD than FG, but an FG is better than a punt or a turnover.

The steelers would have won the game in Chicago with more FG.

Moose
10-24-2017, 10:27 AM
I am one of those people. I look at FGs in the red zone as a step closer to a loss. I love Boswell...have since day one, but I’m definitely an “antifieldgoalite.” Sure I like them when they win the game, but other than that...I don’t want them...lol.

Can't agree more !!!! I'd like to see some slants, QB sneek ( hell, Ben could fall forward for 3 ft), etc.,etc.. Tell Haley to watch some other games and see what they do...even college games.....LOL.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2017, 10:58 AM
As you said in your beginning sentence..."it's alway's better to get TD's instead of FG's". Now as far as the rest, who cares about the 'top' scorers ? That has nothing to do with our STEELER's and the possibility of LOSING a game because of scoring FG instead of TD's. Come on man, do the math. Opponent scores 1 TD and you score 2 FG's, guess what ? You lose ! Sure if it's 4th down and long, BUT you are in FG range you go for the 3. But, if you are in the red zone and you just moved the ball with no problems all the way down the field, as we did against cincy, you have to get a TD. We beat cincy sure, but that game was never in the bag until at the end when Dalton decided to toss the ball on 4th down to the upper seats. Where as, if we would have put a few of those 5 FGs into 7pts, that game would have been done by 3rd qtr. You are not going to win a bunch of games scoring just FG's while opponent scores TD's. PLUS, don't you think the player's themselves would like to put it in the endzone after all the work getting there ? I'm sure they really don't like settling for 3's. Granted, it's great to have the Boss tacking the points when needed, but I'm telling you to compete with the real good teams, and to win in post season play, and win a SB...you better get some plays working that will hammer you TD's !

Everybody knows that its better to score TD's than FG's. I have been a Steeler fan for over 35 years and completed calculus courses, so I get the math of 7-3 and understand how it relates to football.

I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

If Ben throws for 3TD's and we run in 2 TD's and win this week, then great. If Boswell kicks 5 FG's and the Steelers win, then that counts as a W too and I will enjoy it.....but I guess some cant.

tube517
10-24-2017, 11:07 AM
Everybody knows that its better to score TD's than FG's. I have been a Steeler fan for over 35 years and completed calculus courses, so I get the math of 7-3 and understand how it relates to football.

I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

If Ben throws for 3TD's and we run in 2 TD's and win this week, then great. If Boswell kicks 5 FG's and the Steelers win, then that counts as a W too and I will enjoy it.....but I guess some cant.


I admit I get frustrated when we get FGs instead of TDs. I did miss 3/4 of the Bengals game and followed the score on my phone (I couldn't get a good feed where I was at so I couldn't watch).

I was very happy that we were winning and maintaining the lead.

i'm getting too old to worry about how we win.

Maybe I need to just shut off the TV. :lol:

Born2Steel
10-24-2017, 11:10 AM
The entire point of the FG vs TD discussion is not about wins and losses, but the fact that we are having big issues getting into the endzone. Everybody on here would rather have the W, however it happens. That's not even a valid bullet point. This team, this offense rather, has had a very hard time scoring TDs this season. That's just a fact. Thank goodness we do have Boz that can get us the FGs when we do fail to get into the endzone. Anyone disagree with that? If it's not personnel, if it's not playcalling, if it's not getting out played in short yardage/goal-line situations, then what exactly is keeping us out of the endzone? That is really the crux of this discussion.

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 11:13 AM
The red zone defense is also a problem....


922858425049956352

Born2Steel
10-24-2017, 11:25 AM
The red zone defense is also a problem....


922858425049956352

Good thing teams rarely get into the redzone against us then.

Moose
10-24-2017, 11:36 AM
Everybody knows that its better to score TD's than FG's. I have been a Steeler fan for over 35 years and completed calculus courses, so I get the math of 7-3 and understand how it relates to football.

I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

If Ben throws for 3TD's and we run in 2 TD's and win this week, then great. If Boswell kicks 5 FG's and the Steelers win, then that counts as a W too and I will enjoy it.....but I guess some cant.

First of all, congrats on your calculus, I hated that crap ! I do have you beat on the year's though, been a fan for 50+ yrs....LOL. I'm sure the coaches are trying to figure the lack of TD's happening from red zone trips, you can see that just from reading articles and watching the sports talking head shows. But for some reason, with ALL the talent we have on Offense, they just can't figure out why we don't have a player/players able to run it to either pick up a 1st down or a TD. Other teams are doing it, some are not so good teams also. And I'd probably be one of those fans that would bitch if the Steeler's made 2 trips to the red zone and came away with 10 points leaving 4 pts on the field.......depending on the situation. Was the FG made due to it being 2nd and 2yrd, 3rd and 2 and we did 2 passing plays instead of doing a QB sneek, a slant play that may have worked ? Or was the FG made from the 40 and 4th and long. IF it was the prior scenario and we lost by 3pts...I'd be pissed. If we get a WIN I'm happy, no matter how, I'm just concerned of WHY we can't cross that TD plane and why our coaches can't figure out plays when other teams can.

hawaiiansteeler
10-24-2017, 11:44 AM
Everybody knows that its better to score TD's than FG's. I have been a Steeler fan for over 35 years and completed calculus courses, so I get the math of 7-3 and understand how it relates to football.

I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

If Ben throws for 3TD's and we run in 2 TD's and win this week, then great. If Boswell kicks 5 FG's and the Steelers win, then that counts as a W too and I will enjoy it.....but I guess some cant.

here's some advanced calculus for you:

the Steelers currently rank 30th out of 32 NFL teams in red zone efficiency

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

86WARD
10-24-2017, 11:51 AM
FG at the end in an attempt to win is obviously fine. Settling for FGs anytime else is taking a step closer to losing. Two trips to the redzone and two FGs is great until Ben throws a pick 6 or a back breaks a long one and now it’s tied at 6. Obviously a TD is better than a FG and obviously a FG is better than nothing but this team needs to work on limiting the FGs and converting them to TDs...obviously...

They aren’t taking full advantage of some opportunities or maybe they are and it’s just resulting in 3 points instead of seven where other teams efforts result in seven instead of three.

Moose
10-24-2017, 11:53 AM
here's some advanced calculus for you:

the Steelers currently rank 30th out of 32 NFL teams in red zone efficiency

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

LMAO !:amen:

Mojouw
10-24-2017, 11:55 AM
LIES! Damn Lies! And statistics?!

Seriously, situational football on both sides of the ball is still a serious problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Born2Steel
10-24-2017, 12:11 PM
Seems to me that 2 threads could actually be combined into 1 conversation. Bryant is unhappy with his current role, AND redzone inefficiency. The main reason so many were happy to get Bryant back was for his redzone presence.

Low number of targets for Bryant, bottom feeding redzone efficiency numbers, discuss.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2017, 12:16 PM
here's some advanced calculus for you:

the Steelers currently rank 30th out of 32 NFL teams in red zone efficiency

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

Where are they ranked in scoring? I will save you the time. 13th in the NFL.

Steelers are ranked 13th in scoring points and 6th in points allowed in the NFL. There is an old saying in sports...."they don't ask how, they ask how many". If fans want to get all bent out of shape on how the Steelers score points and win games, then they can have fun with that. It just doesn't make much sense to me. :noidea:

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 12:23 PM
3rd down and short and red zone, especially inside the 10, needs improvement, no doubt about that.Hope the steelers will improve on that, but remember no team is perfect.

Also, the last two games were 2 big game for the steelers, so I understand the steelers to have used Bell a lot, but for the few next games, the steelers have to reduce his carries a bit before it's too late

Conner is good enough to have some touches in a game, but the problem, Tomlin has never made a rotation in his career with his RB.

- - - Updated - - -


LIES! Damn Lies! And statistics?!

Seriously, situational football on both sides of the ball is still a serious problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

922875614679400448

Born2Steel
10-24-2017, 12:25 PM
Where are they ranked in scoring? I will save you the time. 13th in the NFL.

Steelers are ranked 13th in scoring points and 6th in points allowed in the NFL. There is an old saying in sports...."they don't ask how, they ask how many". If fans want to get all bent out of shape on how the Steelers score points and win games, then they can have fun with that. It just doesn't make much sense to me. :noidea:

Nobody is getting 'bent out of shape'. It's a legitimate discussion about redzone efficiency.

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 12:28 PM
here's some advanced calculus for you:

the Steelers currently rank 30th out of 32 NFL teams in red zone efficiency

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

and 26th on defense

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-red-zone-scoring-pct

slippy
10-24-2017, 01:19 PM
would have been nice to be at 37-14 at the start of the fourth quarter, that way conner could get fifteen touches in mop up duty.

hawaiiansteeler
10-24-2017, 02:06 PM
Nobody is getting 'bent out of shape'. It's a legitimate discussion about redzone efficiency.

exactly, this is a Steelers message board and when your team's red zone efficiency is ranked only 30th out of 32 NFL teams it's a legitimate topic of discussion

teegre
10-24-2017, 02:10 PM
Yes, but you know who accounted for career points in the NFL don't you?

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean... Morton Anderson??? :huh:

But, we are slowly tangenting away from the main point.

7 > 3 > 0 > turnover

And, stop using the strawman fallacy (long live Tee Tee!!!). No one is complaining about winning. Come one, man. We are discussing that the red-zone offense is in a funk. I know that you know that that is the actual discussion... unless (to throw a strawman argument back your way) you would actually prefer to kneel three times in the red-zone and then kick a FG.

AtlantaDan
10-24-2017, 02:14 PM
I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

Of course they are trying. Even the Browns are trying. Unfortunately they do not give out participation trophies at the end of the season.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No

Steelers are not getting the job done in the red zone.

AtlantaDan
10-24-2017, 02:26 PM
Where are they ranked in scoring? I will save you the time. 13th in the NFL.

Steelers are ranked 13th in scoring points and 6th in points allowed in the NFL. There is an old saying in sports...."they don't ask how, they ask how many". If fans want to get all bent out of shape on how the Steelers score points and win games, then they can have fun with that. It just doesn't make much sense to me. :noidea:

Actually 17th in points per game (bottom half), which is a better metric since some teams have not played seven games due to byes :coffee:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game

But let's go with 13th - it is not the dumpster fire like the dropoff in the Falcons offensive performance (16th in PPG), but given the alleged talent on this offense is that performing to anyone's realistic expectations?

I agree wins are all that matters, but the 2 losses are due to the offense underperforming

ALLD
10-24-2017, 02:43 PM
here's some advanced calculus for you:

the Steelers currently rank 30th out of 32 NFL teams in red zone efficiency

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

We're in the top 30!

SteelMember
10-24-2017, 02:52 PM
I'm fine with FG's as long as we win. I think it's my blood pressure that doesn't like them... it seems to recall every other time we "settled" for 3's and kept the competition in the game.

" I am SteelMember's blood pressure. I start making my presence known 5 minutes after kickoff."

:chuckle:

tube517
10-24-2017, 03:02 PM
I'm fine with FG's as long as we win. I think it's my blood pressure that doesn't like them... it seems to recall every other time we "settled" for 3's and kept the competition in the game.

" I am SteelMember's blood pressure. I start making my presence known 5 minutes after kickoff."

:chuckle:

Accurate for most of the gameday thread (including me) . :thumbsup: :chuckle:

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 03:07 PM
C'mon, I was relaxed and confident that the Steelers would win when it was 26-14 for 2 reasons...The steelers were playing against Andy Dalton and the steelers almost never lose a game when the steelers lead by at least 11 points

The steelers have only lost 3 times after having led a game by at least 11 points in the last 25 years!...Best nfl team to protect a big lead.

43Hitman
10-24-2017, 03:09 PM
C'mon, I was relaxed and confident that the Steelers would win when it was 26-14 for 2 reasons...The steelers were playing against Andy Dalton and the steelers almost never lose a game when the steelers lead by at least 11 points

The steelers have only lost 3 times after having led a game by at least 11 points in the last 25 years!...Best nfl team to protect a big lead.
Does that include the tie game we had with Vick's Falcons?

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 03:10 PM
Does that include the tie game we had with Vick's Falcons?

No,so this is 3 loss and one tie!

43Hitman
10-24-2017, 03:11 PM
No,so this is 3 loss and one tie!
Still a great stat! Thanks for sharing. :drink:

Psycho Ward 86
10-24-2017, 03:23 PM
I cant believe people are actually defending the red zone offense. People do realize our 20+ yard plays on the year are down as well, which used to help compensate for our shitty red zone offenses of years past? Now were even worse in the red zone, and worse at creating big plays. How in the hell is that a recipe for success

86WARD
10-24-2017, 03:32 PM
Field Goals and many of thems!!

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 03:36 PM
Field Goals and many of thems!!

Like against KC in the playoffs last year!!!!

Mojouw
10-24-2017, 04:26 PM
The unmentioned part of this is that offense and defense go together. Turn a few of those FGs into TDs and a few of those missed third and shorts into FGs and suddenly the Steelers are leading the Bengals say 34-14 with 9 minutes to go in the third quarter or something. That means for almost half of a football game you make the other team totally one dimensional. Steelers can sit back in nickel, dime, or even quarters and turn the pass rushers loose. Up 20 points after the half? No one is running the ball anymore. Sacks and turnovers come in bunches then.

That is the biggest reason it is frustrating for me to see inefficiencies in short yardage and the red zone. I could care less about the score -- I want to use the offense to force the other team to throw out 50-60% of its playbook and make it really simple for this young and fast defense to simply pin there ears back and go.

Steelers teams have always been their best on defense when the other team is forced to abandon the run.

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 05:16 PM
922949035572346882

polamalubeast
10-24-2017, 06:09 PM
922962454132518912

j-d-s
10-24-2017, 07:03 PM
On the road against a decent but not good team? What could possibly go wrong?

Iron Steeler
10-24-2017, 07:51 PM
Stafford can sling it. And has that captain comeback persona . He won't go doqn quietly if he is playong from behind.

Time management and defense wins this game.

Psycho Ward 86
10-24-2017, 08:04 PM
922949035572346882

Man oh man that is huge. The RB's are going to get a ton of targets

polamalubeast
10-25-2017, 09:26 AM
On the road against a decent but not good team? What could possibly go wrong?

923179472399908865

86WARD
10-25-2017, 09:33 AM
I feel good about this game but feel like I shouldn’t be feeling good about it...lol.

Born2Steel
10-25-2017, 09:35 AM
Do we still owe the Lions a beatdown for the Thanksgiving coin flip loss?

AtlantaDan
10-25-2017, 09:37 AM
This from Football Outsiders, which probably will be a nice set up for a cluster on the road Sunday night in Detroit

We have a new No. 1 team in DVOA this week, and it's probably not the team that you expect. Yes, the Pittsburgh Steelers are 5-2, tied with four other teams for the second-best record in the NFL right now. But for much of the season, the conventional wisdom has been that the Steelers are sputtering and overrated. After the Steelers lost to Chicago in Week 3, it was like the sky had fallen on Steelers Twitter. Ben Roethlisberger's pathetic Schaub-a-thon against Jacksonville two weeks later just made them feel worse.

And yet, here we are after seven weeks of the NFL season and at least one advanced metric (ours) has the Steelers on top of the league. And not just by a small amount; the Steelers opened up a healthy lead this week over the No. 2 Rams and No. 3 Chiefs. (Yes, you read that correctly, but we'll get to the Rams in a minute.)


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2017/week-7-dvoa-ratings

PLAYOFF ODDS REPORT (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/playoffodds)


Make Playoffs
Win Super Bowl
Earn No. 1 Pick


1
PIT
97.5%
1
PIT
23.5%
1
CLE
61.4%


2
PHI
95.8%
2
PHI
14.3%
2
SF
28.3%


3
KC
93.6%
3
KC
13.8%
3
NYG
5.2%


4
LARM
84.0%
4
LARM
10.8%
4
IND
3.5%


5
MIN
79.5%
5
MIN
7.0%
5
ARI
0.8


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/


(http://www.footballoutsiders.com/)

polamalubeast
10-25-2017, 09:47 AM
This from Football Outsiders, which probably will be a nice set up for a cluster on the road Sunday night in Detroit

We have a new No. 1 team in DVOA this week, and it's probably not the team that you expect. Yes, the Pittsburgh Steelers are 5-2, tied with four other teams for the second-best record in the NFL right now. But for much of the season, the conventional wisdom has been that the Steelers are sputtering and overrated. After the Steelers lost to Chicago in Week 3, it was like the sky had fallen on Steelers Twitter. Ben Roethlisberger's pathetic Schaub-a-thon against Jacksonville two weeks later just made them feel worse.

And yet, here we are after seven weeks of the NFL season and at least one advanced metric (ours) has the Steelers on top of the league. And not just by a small amount; the Steelers opened up a healthy lead this week over the No. 2 Rams and No. 3 Chiefs. (Yes, you read that correctly, but we'll get to the Rams in a minute.)


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2017/week-7-dvoa-ratings

PLAYOFF ODDS REPORT (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/playoffodds)


Make Playoffs
Win Super Bowl
Earn No. 1 Pick


1
PIT
97.5%
1
PIT
23.5%
1
CLE
61.4%


2
PHI
95.8%
2
PHI
14.3%
2
SF
28.3%


3
KC
93.6%
3
KC
13.8%
3
NYG
5.2%


4
LARM
84.0%
4
LARM
10.8%
4
IND
3.5%


5
MIN
79.5%
5
MIN
7.0%
5
ARI
0.8


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/


(http://www.footballoutsiders.com/)

With the QB situation of the Vikings, they do not deserve to be in the top 5 ...

AtlantaDan
10-25-2017, 09:52 AM
With the QB situation of the Vikings, they do not deserve to be in the top 5 ...

I initially thought so too based on the name of the guy taking snaps - but FWIW Case Keenum is #7 in the ESPN QBR ratings

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

Iron Steeler
10-25-2017, 11:21 AM
If we can convert on 3rd and shorts and extend those drives we will win . Also our defense has been giving our offense more opportunities with turnovers. Got to capitalize !

BlackAndGold
10-25-2017, 12:41 PM
There is no excuse not to get after Stafford Sunday.

Former Steeler Brian Mihalik could be starting at left tackle in place of Greg Robinson(who also isn't good)

86WARD
10-25-2017, 12:49 PM
Case Keenumis playing very well actually.

Born2Steel
10-25-2017, 01:27 PM
Case Keenumis playing very well actually.

Keenum is the 3rd string QB for them too. Wonder if the keep Bridgewater to backup Bradford and let Keenum go, or let Bradford go when Bridgewater gets back, or bye bye Bridgewater?

86WARD
10-25-2017, 01:30 PM
You have to think that if Everyone is 100% this season that Bradford gets the nod...after this seas n though...game on...

AtlantaDan
10-25-2017, 04:18 PM
923290919218171904

43Hitman
10-25-2017, 05:01 PM
Golden Tate practiced today also.

stillers4me
10-25-2017, 05:22 PM
923299253874671616

Psycho Ward 86
10-25-2017, 06:10 PM
923179472399908865

5 of those 6 games were at home. This is on the road. Whens the last season where Ben was consistently reliable on the road? You'll have to flip back multiple years.

The lions are tied for 2nd in the league in interceptions in a season where Ben has been his usual self on the road and still suspect even at home.

Im gonna give the benefit of the doubt with Tomlin being good under the night lights + the Lions with some key injuries.

31-21 Steelers

polamalubeast
10-25-2017, 06:37 PM
I'm tired of hearing about Ben's struggles on the road, since steelers are far from bad on the road...In fact, they are 7-1 in their last 8 games on the road, including a big win in Kansas City this year.

I mean, it's more important the performances of the steelers than the performances of Roethlisberger ....

43Hitman
10-25-2017, 06:46 PM
I'm tired of hearing about Ben's struggles on the road, since steelers are far from bad on the road...In fact, they are 7-1 in their last 8 games on the road, including a big win in Kansas City this year.

I mean, it's more important the performances of the steelers than the performances of Roethlisberger ....

This couldn't be more true. We saw it last week against the Bungles. As I said before, Ben needs to be around 17-24 for 250 yards and 2 td's and its an easy win.

Psycho Ward 86
10-25-2017, 06:51 PM
I'm tired of hearing about Ben's struggles on the road, since steelers are far from bad on the road...In fact, they are 7-1 in their last 8 games on the road, including a big win in Kansas City this year.

I mean, it's more important the performances of the steelers than the performances of Roethlisberger ....

I think were all tired of hearing it. But sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. He'll stop hearing it once he proves he's got the monkey off his back. Bell, AB, and the defense have had notable road performances in that same span of time, and with far less disparity between road/home performances. Ben needs to find his inner road warrior from years past. I remember seeing an article about QB's in the past year or 2 year and Ben had the highest disparity between home and road performances. Thats not something you want to hear from the most important position in the game

43Hitman
10-25-2017, 07:04 PM
I think were all tired of hearing it. But sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. He'll stop hearing it once he proves he's got the monkey off his back. Bell, AB, and the defense have had notable road performances in that same span of time, and with far less disparity between road/home performances. Ben needs to find his inner road warrior from years past. I remember seeing an article about QB's in the past year or 2 year and Ben had the highest disparity between home and road performances. Thats not something you want to hear from the most important position in the game
In year's past yes. As PB already said, he is 7-1 in his last 8. If half a season is enough to judge a offense/defense good or bad, why not a QB too? Especially one that has won 2 SB's and been to a third. I honestly think he just had a combination of a developing defense and forcing it too much. Which in turn netted the results we've seen. What we can do is honestly say that this defense has really only turned the corner about 10 or so games ago, I don't think it's a coincidence that Ben starting having better performances around the same time. And this defense has been horrid for the 2 years prior to this stretch.

polamalubeast
10-25-2017, 07:06 PM
I think were all tired of hearing it. But sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. He'll stop hearing it once he proves he's got the monkey off his back. Bell, AB, and the defense have had notable road performances in that same span of time, and with far less disparity between road/home performances. Ben needs to find his inner road warrior from years past. I remember seeing an article about QB's in the past year or 2 year and Ben had the highest disparity between home and road performances. Thats not something you want to hear from the most important position in the game


I am more a fan of the steelers that Roethlisberger....I like Roethlisberger but the win/loss record of the steelers is more important that the stats of Roethlisberger for me.

If the steelers would be bad on the road, that would be another story.

Moose
10-26-2017, 08:33 AM
Stafford can sling it. And has that captain comeback persona . He won't go doqn quietly if he is playong from behind.

Time management and defense wins this game.

I don't think this will be an 'easy' win, especially the way the Steeler's play lesser teams (3-3). TOUCHDOWNS will also be needed to win this game !

polamalubeast
10-26-2017, 10:08 AM
923545828408651778

AtlantaDan
10-26-2017, 10:25 AM
I think were all tired of hearing it. But sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. He'll stop hearing it once he proves he's got the monkey off his back. Bell, AB, and the defense have had notable road performances in that same span of time, and with far less disparity between road/home performances. Ben needs to find his inner road warrior from years past. I remember seeing an article about QB's in the past year or 2 year and Ben had the highest disparity between home and road performances. Thats not something you want to hear from the most important position in the game

Ben's road QBR (88.2) actually is better than his home QBR (75.1) for 2017, but that is skewed by the outlier of the Jax home game

No surprise there has been a significant road/home QBR rating disparity the past few seasons (78.4/116.7 - 2016; 86.0/102.4 - 2015; 91.0/114.8 - 2014)

In his early years he actually had better road/home ratings (100.0/96.3 - 2004; 102.5/95.3 - 2005; 82.3/77.7 - 2008)

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/5536/ben-roethlisberger

Count Steeler
10-26-2017, 10:41 AM
923545828408651778

Is it the dome or do dome teams suck?

polamalubeast
10-26-2017, 10:43 AM
Is it the dome or do dome teams suck?

Maybe,but Detroit is not much better....

polamalubeast
10-26-2017, 05:46 PM
923681985041534976

Psycho Ward 86
10-26-2017, 06:04 PM
There is no excuse not to get after Stafford Sunday.

Former Steeler Brian Mihalik could be starting at left tackle in place of Greg Robinson(who also isn't good)

920029900098060288

hawaiiansteeler
10-26-2017, 06:05 PM
I am more a fan of the steelers than Roethlisberger....

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/U7Cl98FIM_vgLsejtI_LrEHVO38=/0x0:342x411/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:342x411):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9513583/ohhhhhhhh.0.gif

Lady Steel
10-27-2017, 02:54 PM
That gif will never get old, 5-0! :lol:

Steelers will win in Detroit. It's prime time, baby! :tt02:

AtlantaDan
10-27-2017, 03:27 PM
923968177264095232
923968023937118208

Psycho Ward 86
10-28-2017, 07:22 PM
Heres one of the less obvious lineup changes that could get really interesting: With Martavis out, Juju will definitely get a way higher percentage of snaps on the outside than before. Eli Rogers is slowly getting the trust back from the coaches and hes really a slot only receiver anyways. Lets see if Juju has more afterburners than draftniks give him credit for

Oh yeah, and Ben has a 127 QB Rating when targeting Juju this season (none of his interceptions came on throws towards him). That might matter or something

polamalubeast
10-29-2017, 07:14 AM
who start the gameday thread?

polamalubeast
10-29-2017, 07:25 AM
924391461155586049

Cowherball!!!!

RunNGun
10-29-2017, 10:07 AM
924391461155586049

Cowherball!!!!

Never thought I'd say it, but I'm loving the Cowherball right now. Run the ball and play defense, control the clock and dominate opponents. That's how you win football games in January.

steelreserve
10-29-2017, 10:36 AM
Never thought I'd say it, but I'm loving the Cowherball right now. Run the ball and play defense, control the clock and dominate opponents. That's how you win football games in January.

That's not Cowherball.

Cowherball is trying to run out the clock with a 4-point lead, with 7 minutes left, in the third quarter.

polamalubeast
10-29-2017, 11:46 AM
That's not Cowherball.

Cowherball is trying to run out the clock with a 4-point lead, with 7 minutes left, in the third quarter.

Maybe, but in the 2nd half against the ravens, chiefs and Bengals, the steelers ran the ball for most of the time with the lead that the steelers had.

When you run the ball 40 times per game and you have 35 minutes of possession time and you have a very good defense, it's Cowherball!

The only thing missing is to be better in short yards situation!

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
10-29-2017, 02:51 PM
That gif will never get old, 5-0! :lol:

Steelers will win in Detroit. It's prime time, baby! :tt02: Yep Ben almost always Plays good in prime time games.

Mojouw
10-29-2017, 03:14 PM
Should be noted that Cowherball has been updated this season. This version has patched the 2 biggest flaws in previous releases - not getting early leads, and not aggressively closing out games.

For instance in the Chiefs game, Ben was on pace to throw for 40-50 attempts at the half. Multiple times late in games this season, the Steelers have aggressively gone for it on 3rd down in order to keep the ball and run out the clock.

GoSlash27
10-29-2017, 10:39 PM
Game ball goes to JuJu.
/RideDatBike

- - - Updated - - -

Game ball goes to JuJu.
/RideDatBike