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Mojouw
10-17-2017, 04:55 PM
“We actually called a playcall, they gave us a defense that we couldn’t run the play. We had a run play called. We had a lighter personnel in. They brought their goal line heavy package in. We called the play and the line looked at me like, ‘Ben, we can’t run that play. You gotta change it.’ I went to the shotgun and looked AB on a pass play and then threw it away.”

See the rest -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/roethlisberger-explains-red-zone-zone-failure-vs-chiefs/

This begs the question: How much of the red zone struggles are on Haley and how much is on Ben? Everyone swears up and down that Haley wouldn't know a goal-line run if it bit him in the ass, but here we have a breakdown from the QB that it was the original play-call.

Of course why in the hell they didn't have a "jumbo" package on the field is a WHOLE other question...

AtlantaDan
10-17-2017, 06:53 PM
“We actually called a playcall, they gave us a defense that we couldn’t run the play. We had a run play called. We had a lighter personnel in. They brought their goal line heavy package in. We called the play and the line looked at me like, ‘Ben, we can’t run that play. You gotta change it.’ I went to the shotgun and looked AB on a pass play and then threw it away.”

See the rest -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/roethlisberger-explains-red-zone-zone-failure-vs-chiefs/

This begs the question: How much of the red zone struggles are on Haley and how much is on Ben? Everyone swears up and down that Haley wouldn't know a goal-line run if it bit him in the ass, but here we have a breakdown from the QB that it was the original play-call.

Of course why in the hell they didn't have a "jumbo" package on the field is a WHOLE other question...

The next big story to break will be that both Haley and Ben have Ben but do not have Bell on their fantasy teams (more locker room acrimony!) and need TD passes

Moose
10-17-2017, 06:54 PM
“We actually called a playcall, they gave us a defense that we couldn’t run the play. We had a run play called. We had a lighter personnel in. They brought their goal line heavy package in. We called the play and the line looked at me like, ‘Ben, we can’t run that play. You gotta change it.’ I went to the shotgun and looked AB on a pass play and then threw it away.”

See the rest -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/roethlisberger-explains-red-zone-zone-failure-vs-chiefs/

This begs the question: How much of the red zone struggles are on Haley and how much is on Ben? Everyone swears up and down that Haley wouldn't know a goal-line run if it bit him in the ass, but here we have a breakdown from the QB that it was the original play-call.

Of course why in the hell they didn't have a "jumbo" package on the field is a WHOLE other question...

Thanks for sharing ! It looks like we all know that the 'red zone' is a definite problem with this team. You can't keep driving down to the 5 and leave with 3pts. the majority of times. That's not going to win alot of games.

DesertSteel
10-17-2017, 07:47 PM
When was the last time a Ben/Haley offense operated efficiently in the red zone?

Psycho Ward 86
10-17-2017, 09:40 PM
for those who didnt look at the article, Derrick Johnson really does have an egregious hold on Bell. He would have been absolutely torched if he didnt. He literally has both arms wrapped around his waist.

that being said, Haley's red zone offense sucks ass

- - - Updated - - -

for those who didnt look at the article, Derrick Johnson really does have an egregious hold on Bell. He would have been absolutely torched if he didnt. He literally has both arms wrapped around his waist.

that being said, Haley's red zone offense sucks ass

Count Steeler
10-18-2017, 05:24 AM
When was the last time a Ben/Haley offense operated efficiently in the red zone?

Ben/Arians wasn't much better, if at all.

Seems like when they get in the red zone, they think side to side instead of straight forward. That first drive in New England in the regular season last year was a perfect summation of their woes. Their first drive and they were moving at will on the Pats*, but as soon as they got into the red zone they call the reverse power sweep, flea flicker, pass option to Antonio Brown. It is hard enough to execute simple plays, but that particular play was atrocious, especially given the circumstances.

AtlantaDan
10-18-2017, 08:33 AM
When was the last time a Ben/Haley offense operated efficiently in the red zone?


Ben/Arians wasn't much better, if at all.

Yep

The red zone offense has been consistently mediocre/middle of the pack Ben's entire career other than the 2005 Super Bowl season when the offense ranked #4 in efficiency with a TD conversion rate of 62.5% and 2007 when it ranked #7

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2006-02-06

So much for the theory all Ben needed was a tall receiver to replace Plaxico Burress (Sweeeed!) so Ben could throw incomplete fade patterns to the end zone to someone new

zulater
10-18-2017, 08:36 AM
“We actually called a playcall, they gave us a defense that we couldn’t run the play. We had a run play called. We had a lighter personnel in. They brought their goal line heavy package in. We called the play and the line looked at me like, ‘Ben, we can’t run that play. You gotta change it.’ I went to the shotgun and looked AB on a pass play and then threw it away.”

See the rest -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/roethlisberger-explains-red-zone-zone-failure-vs-chiefs/

This begs the question: How much of the red zone struggles are on Haley and how much is on Ben? Everyone swears up and down that Haley wouldn't know a goal-line run if it bit him in the ass, but here we have a breakdown from the QB that it was the original play-call.

Of course why in the hell they didn't have a "jumbo" package on the field is a WHOLE other question...

So as you ask at the end, why are we in a light package 1st and goal at the 5? As someone else pointed out they tend to thing side to side instead of attacking straight forward once they get in close.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-18-2017, 02:00 PM
Yep

The red zone offense has been consistently mediocre/middle of the pack Ben's entire career other than the 2005 Super Bowl season when the offense ranked #4 in efficiency with a TD conversion rate of 62.5% and 2007 when it ranked #7

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2006-02-06

So much for the theory all Ben needed was a tall receiver to replace Plaxico Burress (Sweeeed!) so Ben could throw incomplete fade patterns to the end zone to someone new

Interesting how that site only counts TD as success. I guess if you get to the 19 yard line, they expect a TD. Would be interesting to somehow factor the conservative coaches into that equation. Some guys think that if you come away with points and play solid defense, you can win game without having TD machine offenses.

Iron Steeler
10-18-2017, 02:11 PM
“We actually called a playcall, they gave us a defense that we couldn’t run the play. We had a run play called. We had a lighter personnel in. They brought their goal line heavy package in. We called the play and the line looked at me like, ‘Ben, we can’t run that play. You gotta change it.’ I went to the shotgun and looked AB on a pass play and then threw it away.”

See the rest -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/roethlisberger-explains-red-zone-zone-failure-vs-chiefs/

This begs the question: How much of the red zone struggles are on Haley and how much is on Ben? Everyone swears up and down that Haley wouldn't know a goal-line run if it bit him in the ass, but here we have a breakdown from the QB that it was the original play-call.

Of course why in the hell they didn't have a "jumbo" package on the field is a WHOLE other question...

On the 2 yard line. we should have put the Jumbo package out there and punched it in with BELL/CONNOR/ OR WATSON(Short yardage specialist) RUN RUN RUN

DesertSteel
10-18-2017, 02:20 PM
Interesting how that site only counts TD as success. I guess if you get to the 19 yard line, they expect a TD. Would be interesting to somehow factor the conservative coaches into that equation. Some guys think that if you come away with points and play solid defense, you can win game without having TD machine offenses.
The reality is that red zone efficiency is measured in touchdowns. The assumption is that a team can make a 37-yard FG.

Psycho Ward 86
10-18-2017, 03:22 PM
Interesting how that site only counts TD as success. I guess if you get to the 19 yard line, they expect a TD. Would be interesting to somehow factor the conservative coaches into that equation. Some guys think that if you come away with points and play solid defense, you can win game without having TD machine offenses.

Well isnt that pretty much the only standard by which red zone efficiency is measured?

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-18-2017, 04:55 PM
Well isnt that pretty much the only standard by which red zone efficiency is measured?

So how is Andy Reid going for it on 4th down and failing to get any points, statistically compared to Mike Tomlin choosing to kick a FG after Derrick Johnson mugged Bell in the end zone?? Are they both considered equally failed trips to the red zone??

AtlantaDan
10-18-2017, 05:45 PM
So how is Andy Reid going for it on 4th down and failing to get any points, statistically compared to Mike Tomlin choosing to kick a FG after Derrick Johnson mugged Bell in the end zone?? Are they both considered equally failed trips to the red zone??

There of course are degrees of failure - throwing a pick six on first and goal from the two or Jerome Bettis fumbling at the goal line to set up Peyton Manning at midfield obviously is worse than turning it over on downs inside the five or getting three points rather than a TD. TDs that should have been scored if the Jets are not ruled to have fumbled on the goal line, a hold was not called on a receiver in the end zone, or, as Bruce Arians once said, a goal line play was blocked as BA had been drawn it up perhaps could be classified as a SGTD (Sour Grapes TD) trip, even though nobody gets points for those.

These are the only stats I have found.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-attempts-per-game
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scores-per-game
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

The cult of analytics probably has developed a grading system that incorporates some of the other variables you have mentioned

Mojouw
10-18-2017, 06:08 PM
Here are % of drives ending in points.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-scoring-drive-efficiency-statistics/2016/

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-18-2017, 06:47 PM
Here are % of drives ending in points.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-scoring-drive-efficiency-statistics/2016/

Thanks for doing a search and finding this. :thumbsup:

It just seems as though judging success by TD or not is leaving out too many variables. The failed 4th down conversion, the holding calls or sacks taking teams out of field goal position, Nick Folk missing FG's, etc.

teegre
10-18-2017, 07:17 PM
Math:

TD > FG > turnover > defensive TD

7 > 3 > 0 > -7

Mojouw
10-18-2017, 07:50 PM
Thanks for doing a search and finding this. :thumbsup:

It just seems as though judging success by TD or not is leaving out too many variables. The failed 4th down conversion, the holding calls or sacks taking teams out of field goal position, Nick Folk missing FG's, etc.

It does leave too much out. Like any stat in isolation it lacks any context and explanation. Much the same way that Completion % can be an almost meaningless stat. Last year Bradford completed like 70+% of his passes. Just looking at that stat alone - he looks great. Fire up the games and see what types of passes those completions came on and the results of the plays and game situations and he stunk. Plus the line was awful.

But we can still use these isolated stats to get a decent "snapshot" of what is going on. WE can kinda see that in 2016 using all the charts teams have linked to that the Steelers were kinda in a second tier of teams at scoring "efficiency" per drive. We can also see that despite all their struggles this year in the redzone it is only down 4% from last year. I'm guessing that is like 1 TD or something. Last year's rate was enough to get to the brink of the SB.

So despite all the had wringing and frustration - this team really does seem to be about 4-5 plays per game away from being one of the most lethal offenses in the league.