So about that OLB rotation...

[Psycho Ward 86]

James Harrison: In only 15 snaps, he register 3 tackles, 2 QB hits, and a game ruining sack. TJ Watt's play has been steadily strong. Chickillo has shown to be a valuable backup, but hasnt been without some seriously awful games (See--> The Bears game). Dupree, for as much as we needed a big leap from him, has been a boom or bust. As much as his gap discipline sucked against the Bears and Jaguars, it looked like he had just as bad of a game, except in regards to his pass rushing. Against the Chiefs, he got run up the arc as much as weve seen all season. If this dude could master a speed bull and pair it with a rip move instead of trying to outrun the right tackle all the time he would be unstoppable.

SteelersDepot's snap counts for week 6 indicates that Harrison played a few more snaps than Chickillo for a change, and boy, what change it was. But maybe its time to think about letting James cut into Dupree's playing time until he figures it out? Harrison may be old, but we all know he's a different animal. And he also consistently has said in interviews that he feels like he plays better when he's had more playing time. Harrison is comfortable at ROLB, so lets not try to fix what isnt broken. ROLB may be TJ's designated spot, but he's been playing over on the other side anyways and he's a smart player, and outplaying the hell out of Bud Dupree so far. Id love to see them be on the field together more often. To me, those are the best OLB's on the team by far and getting cute and "saving" Harrison by deactivating him hasnt worked out for us so I think Harrison has earned more than 28% of the defensive snaps like he did against the Chiefs. Id like to see him push right around 40% for the time being and see how things go.

Thoughts?

[hawaiiansteeler]

I think the Steelers want to keep Deebo fresh and not wear him down over the course of a long season and envision using him late in games as a sort of relief pitcher much like how we saw him used against the Chiefs.

[Steeldude]

Harrison needs more playing time and so does Chickillo. Dupree needs his playing time cut severely.

[Mojouw]

I still say Harrison struggles to get a hat on gameday, much less crack the rotation. Not saying I agree with it, but it does seem to be how the Steelers see it.

Assuming everyone is healthy, they either have to short an o-lineman or a TE to dress Harrison. Typically, Tomlin led Steelers teams have been hesitant to go light at those positions on gameday.

If Williams' injury is anything serious, that might make things more possible. Williams doesn't dress and Harrison does.

[Craic]

Harrison needs more playing time and so does Chickillo. Dupree needs his playing time cut severely.

Of the three, who is our future? You seem to be a "right now" type of guy with everything you post here. The problem is, the "right now" mentality works in college ball where most players have a year, maybe two or three at most to perform. However, in the NFL, we might invest two mediocre years in a player and then have a good to very good player for a decade thereafter. Almost our entire O line falls into this category. Our last shut-down CB fell into that category. Shazier falls into that category (and add injuries to his first two years).

So, no. Dupree needs to stay on the field and work through his issues. Otherwise, we're going to be looking for a new OLB at the same time we're trying to replace Ben R. and a starting safety. No thank you.

[Mojouw]

No one is really willing to talk about who they sit and don't dress in favor of Harrison. It most likely has to be one of the LBs or you run the risk of being caught short at another position. Jesse James gets hurt and now BJ Finney is your only other dressed "TE". That kind of thing.

Dupree and Watt have to be battle tested and blooded to see if they are the future of the position. So they get a hat. Matakavich and Fort are primary back-ups and key special teamers (Matakavich keeps up what he is doing and he is going to win awards for special teams play - he saved that return at the end of the 4th) - so they get a hat.

That leaves Chickillo, Moats, and Harrison. Guess which one doesn't play special teams anymore? http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/09/james_harrison_no_special_teams.html

Guess who has a crucial special teams role? -- Moats is LT on punts -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/film-room-arthur-moats-tackling-special-teams-responsibilities/

So that leaves Chickillo and Harrison fighting over that last LB spot on Sundays. Chick plays special teams and is better in space at this point. Harrison is Harrison and he is almost 40.

I guess, I just don't get how this is all supposed to work from a roster construction game-day management situation if we are arguing for Harrison to get 25-40% of the defensive snaps?

[GBMelBlount]

Harrison needs more playing time and so does Chickillo. Dupree needs his playing time cut severely.

Great point Mr. "right now guy"

Playing currently better-performing players arguably:

- Gives us a better chance of winning short-term and having better playoff seeding.
- Gives us a better chance of winning the Superbowl, short term.
- AND may light a fire under his ass, because we know he has the talent.

I am with you short term. :drink:

[teegre]

James Harrison: In only 15 snaps, he register 3 tackles, 2 QB hits, and a game ruining sack. TJ Watt's play has been steadily strong. Chickillo has shown to be a valuable backup, but hasnt been without some seriously awful games (See--> The Bears game). Dupree, for as much as we needed a big leap from him, has been a boom or bust. As much as his gap discipline sucked against the Bears and Jaguars, it looked like he had just as bad of a game, except in regards to his pass rushing. Against the Chiefs, he got run up the arc as much as weve seen all season. If this dude could master a speed bull and pair it with a rip move instead of trying to outrun the right tackle all the time he would be unstoppable.

SteelersDepot's snap counts for week 6 indicates that Harrison played a few more snaps than Chickillo for a change, and boy, what change it was. But maybe its time to think about letting James cut into Dupree's playing time until he figures it out? Harrison may be old, but we all know he's a different animal. And he also consistently has said in interviews that he feels like he plays better when he's had more playing time. Harrison is comfortable at ROLB, so lets not try to fix what isnt broken. ROLB may be TJ's designated spot, but he's been playing over on the other side anyways and he's a smart player, and outplaying the hell out of Bud Dupree so far. Id love to see them be on the field together more often. To me, those are the best OLB's on the team by far and getting cute and "saving" Harrison by deactivating him hasnt worked out for us so I think Harrison has earned more than 28% of the defensive snaps like he did against the Chiefs. Id like to see him push right around 40% for the time being and see how things go.

Thoughts?

Great question/post. :nod:

My immediate thought is... Was Harrison so effective at the end of the Chiefs game because he was fresh? Might his effectiveness wane if he were to get 40% of the snaps? What’s his most effective percentage???


I’m really asking your (and everyone’s) thoughts on the topic. I’m not being rhetorical.

[DesertSteel]

Deebo = pinch hitter in the bottom of the 9th

- - - Updated - - -


No one is really willing to talk about who they sit and don't dress in favor of Harrison. It most likely has to be one of the LBs or you run the risk of being caught short at another position. Jesse James gets hurt and now BJ Finney is your only other dressed "TE". That kind of thing.

Dupree and Watt have to be battle tested and blooded to see if they are the future of the position. So they get a hat. Matakavich and Fort are primary back-ups and key special teamers (Matakavich keeps up what he is doing and he is going to win awards for special teams play - he saved that return at the end of the 4th) - so they get a hat.

That leaves Chickillo, Moats, and Harrison. Guess which one doesn't play special teams anymore? http://www.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2017/09/james_harrison_no_special_teams.html

Guess who has a crucial special teams role? -- Moats is LT on punts -- http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/film-room-arthur-moats-tackling-special-teams-responsibilities/

So that leaves Chickillo and Harrison fighting over that last LB spot on Sundays. Chick plays special teams and is better in space at this point. Harrison is Harrison and he is almost 40.

I guess, I just don't get how this is all supposed to work from a roster construction game-day management situation if we are arguing for Harrison to get 25-40% of the defensive snaps?
take Moats hat

[teegre]

Deebo = pinch hitter in the bottom of the 9th

Good analogy.

Following on your lead, I wonder if he’d be able to be a DH (4-5 at bats per game, without the wear & tear of fielding).

[Mojouw]

Deebo = pinch hitter in the bottom of the 9th

- - - Updated - - -


take Moats hat

Who plays LT on punts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlackAndGold]

As mentioned above, Harrison should be used as a 4th quarter player when the opposing teams LT's are starting to feel fatigue.

But I also just want to say that lets not completely overreact. Harrison just flat out owns Fisher, who really isn't a good tackle in the first place. Their best tackle is Mitchell Schwartz(one of the best RT's in the NFL) who gave Dupree a hard time.

I'm also fine with Chickillo as the #3 OLB.

[Steeldude]

Of the three, who is our future? You seem to be a "right now" type of guy with everything you post here. The problem is, the "right now" mentality works in college ball where most players have a year, maybe two or three at most to perform. However, in the NFL, we might invest two mediocre years in a player and then have a good to very good player for a decade thereafter. Almost our entire O line falls into this category. Our last shut-down CB fell into that category. Shazier falls into that category (and add injuries to his first two years).

So, no. Dupree needs to stay on the field and work through his issues. Otherwise, we're going to be looking for a new OLB at the same time we're trying to replace Ben R. and a starting safety. No thank you.

Work through his issues at the cost of games? His issues should have been done with at this point. He still doesn't know his gaps and he plays lazy. He may make a play once in awhile, but not enough to justify the clown being on the field 85%+ of the time.

I haven't found many lazy players who went on to do good things in the NFL.

Harrison will be inactive again. Then we can watch Dupree jog while he figures out how to play football ��

[teegre]

@PsychoWard86

You bring up a point that mojouw & I have harped on for about a year: Once Dupree learns a second move (ANY second move), he will be insanely good.

Alas, as it is now, he only tries to speed-rush past the RT, which ends up with him being run past the QB (by the RT) on the majority of plays.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Great question/post. :nod:

My immediate thought is... Was Harrison so effective at the end of the Chiefs game because he was fresh? Might his effectiveness wane if he were to get 40% of the snaps? What’s his most effective percentage???


I’m really asking your (and everyone’s) thoughts on the topic. I’m not being rhetorical.

Deebo is on a pitch count and its working IMO. I say dress 5 OLB if you have to or else give him a hat in place of Moats if needed. In a big division game this week, it makes sense to have Harrison available, but limit his snap count until the stretch drive.

[tube517]

"Harrison is like an Entenmann's cake. You save him for special occasions." - Pittsburgh Dad. :chuckle:

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think the Steelers want to keep Deebo fresh and not wear him down over the course of a long season and envision using him late in games as a sort of relief pitcher much like how we saw him used against the Chiefs.

Correct, this has pretty much been confirmed for a long time and explained to death. Hence the thread, would be interesting if we made an adjustment. I know im not the only one around here who thought Harrison would have made a huge difference if he played more instead of Chickillo against the Bears for example. Chickillo was god awful at setting the edge in that game

[86WARD]

Fresh legs.

[zulater]

I think the Steelers want to keep Deebo fresh and not wear him down over the course of a long season and envision using him late in games as a sort of relief pitcher much like how we saw him used against the Chiefs.

Harrison was our best OLB in last years playoffs. I don't think giving him 20 odd defensive snaps a game will wither him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Harrison was our best OLB in last years playoffs. I don't think giving him 20 odd defensive snaps a game will wither him.

I agree, and I think we'll begin to see Deebo get more defensive snaps from here on out.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Believing Harrison only dominated because he was fresh seems more speculative than believing Harrison when he says that he plays better the more snaps he gets. I mean its not like he has a history of getting gassed up and playing poorly in the 4th quarter. let him loose

[steelreserve]

Every year they say Harrison is REALLY going to be the backup this time, and every year he plays his way into the starting job or something close to it. This season looks to be no different, except they were holding out a bit longer on the young guys because we have two of them who we are expecting to have a breakout year.

Isn't his current contract for next season also?

[DesertSteel]

I think this is the 2nd of a 2-year deal.

[Steeldude]

I think this is the 2nd of a 2-year deal.

Yep, and he is retiring. The Steelers need to find his replacement. Perhaps Watt will be that player, but they need one on the other side. I am almost convinced Dupree is a complete bust.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Harrisons contract goes through next season: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/james-harrison-3564/

the value were getting out of him ever since he came back from Cincy is unbelievable

[tube517]

How soon we forget (me included). He signed a 2 year deal this year. :chuckle:


http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/03/schefter-steelers-re-sign-james-harrison-two-year-deal/

[teegre]

Deebo is on a pitch count and its working IMO. I say dress 5 OLB if you have to or else give him a hat in place of Moats if needed. In a big division game this week, it makes sense to have Harrison available, but limit his snap count until the stretch drive.

I’d dress him against the Bengals solely for intimidation.

When Burfict goes full Burfict, we can have Deebo line up at fullback.

[GBMelBlount]

I’d dress him against the Bengals solely for intimidation.

When Burfict goes full Burfict, we can have Deebo line up at fullback.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q

[teegre]

Harrison was our best OLB in last years playoffs. I don't think giving him 20 odd defensive snaps a game will wither him.

Mathematically speaking, there are 60 defensive snaps in a game (on average); so, 20 snaps would be 33% of the defensive snaps (24 snaps would be 40%)... which seems to about on par with everyone’s thoughts on the topic.

[Mojouw]

The only way this happens is that there is an injury or the team sits one of the following each week:

Chickillo
Grimble
Allen

Looking over the active lists - everyone else has a STs role or would leave the Steelers dangerously unable to deal with game-day injuries.

I like Harrison as much as the next guy, but I'm not certain I see those 3 sitting consistently.

Now this upcoming week, Williams or Matakevich may not play - so the issue solves itself.

[DesertSteel]

The only way this happens is that there is an injury or the team sits one of the following each week:

Chickillo
Grimble
Allen

Looking over the active lists - everyone else has a STs role or would leave the Steelers dangerously unable to deal with game-day injuries.

I like Harrison as much as the next guy, but I'm not certain I see those 3 sitting consistently.

Now this upcoming week, Williams or Matakevich may not play - so the issue solves itself.
Chances are that it will resolve itself the same way for the rest of the season. A different guy or two will be out for the remainder of the season, most likely.

[86WARD]

So posed with a 100% healthy roster and it’s Super Bowl Sunday. Are you dressing Harrison?

[Born2Steel]

So posed with a 100% healthy roster and it’s Super Bowl Sunday. Are you dressing Harrison?

If we are seeing the same reps for Harrison as right now, no. Dance with the one(s) that got you there. I can't see him being a healthy scratch for a SB game, either. Somehow he would be on the field. Probably as a team captain too. My head says play the team that earned the game, my fan loyalty and love for #92 says he better be on the field. Not an easy question.

[86WARD]

He had a pretty big impact in a pretty big game. I tend to say you figure out a way to dress him because of his veteran experience and leadership...the hard part is figuring out who sits.

[teegre]

So posed with a 100% healthy roster and it’s Super Bowl Sunday. Are you dressing Harrison?

Absolutely.

There are many reasons why. Sentimental ones aside, considering it would be his last game, Deebo would give you LITERALLY 110%. For those who think that that is not mathematically possible, I cite the Chuck Norris paradox as my proof.

[Born2Steel]

Absolutely.

There are many reasons why. Sentimental ones aside, considering it would be his last game, Deebo would give you LITERALLY 110%. For those who think that that is not mathematically possible, I cite the Chuck Norris paradox as my proof.

LOL! As my son once told me. I add 2%milk to my whole milk and drink 102%milk.

[Psycho Ward 86]

So posed with a 100% healthy roster and it’s Super Bowl Sunday. Are you dressing Harrison?

no doubt. i like this reasoning. if were to treat every game like a must win game, why wouldnt we activate a player THIS good?


Oh by the way guys since no one else has said it, lets not forget that Harrison used to play tons of special teams. Hell, he was still playing special teams toward the end of his 1st stint with the Steelers (and thats while starting)