Tomlin On Roethlisberger: ‘He’s Not Playing Well

[Shoes]

The Pittsburgh Steelers were drubbed 30-9 by the Jacksonville Jaguars Sunday at Heinz Field in a game that featured quarterback Ben Roethlisberger throwing a career-high five interceptions, of which two were returned for touchdowns.
After the game, Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin was asked if Roethlisberger is now taking any risks that he hasn’t done before.
“He’s not playing well, man, I’ll let him speak for him,” Tomlin said (http://www.steelers.com/videos/videos/Tomlin-on-the-loss-to-the-Jaguars/a1c77909-ac02-4b7d-8da9-51cc63e5dd31).

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/tomlin-roethlisberger-hes-not-playing-well/

[Neversatisfied]

Tomlin is coaching about as well as Ben played, this team has more problems than just Ben

[BurghBoy412]

No shit Mike!!

[Moose]

As I said weeks ago.....this is NOT a good team. All the talent is wasted. Coaching and play calling pathetic. No discipline. A constant down hill slide.

[SteelMayhem72]

As I said weeks ago.....this is NOT a good team. All the talent is wasted. Coaching and play calling pathetic. No discipline. A constant down hill slide.Discipline is a major issue with this team...as much as I hate to agree with bradshaw but maybe tomlin is nothing but a cheerleader!

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[Mojouw]

What discipline issue us it? Discipline is a lazy cliche.

Guys aren't throwing punches or getting unsportsmanlike penalties. Rex Ryan teams are undisciplined.

This Steekera team fails to execute the plays being called. More often than not the coaches have put them in position to succeed. Then one or more of the following happens

The QB screws up
The receiver drops the ball
The backup o line of the week commits a penalty.

That's not lack of discipline. That's just being shitty at your job.


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[Neversatisfied]

What discipline issue us it? Discipline is a lazy cliche.

Guys aren't throwing punches or getting unsportsmanlike penalties. Rex Ryan teams are undisciplined.

This Steekera team fails to execute the plays being called. More often than not the coaches have put them in position to succeed. Then one or more of the following happens

The QB screws up
The receiver drops the ball
The backup o line of the week commits a penalty.

That's not lack of discipline. That's just being shitty at your job.


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When players fail to wrap up on a tackle week in and week out, it points to team disipline.
When players commit way too many penalties at home, it points to team disipline.
When players jump up and celebrate a tackle after a nine yard game, it points to team disipline.
These are just a few things that these Mike Tomlin coached teams do and have done for several seasons now. The points i made are not opinion they are fact, its a sad reality for me and quite a few other fans. I was a huge Mike Tomlin fan up to the point he thought he could get away with an attempted trip of a player on Primetime Television, that really upset me. I'm not saying Mike Tomlin is a terrible coach or a cheat but what i will say is that he was gifted a group of guys who were at the top and its very difficult to duplicate that but he has managed to coach a group that looks to a large percentage of fans as undisciplined.

[Mojouw]

When players fail to wrap up on a tackle week in and week out, it points to team disipline.
When players commit way too many penalties at home, it points to team disipline.
When players jump up and celebrate a tackle after a nine yard game, it points to team disipline.
These are just a few things that these Mike Tomlin coached teams do and have done for several seasons now. The points i made are not opinion they are fact, its a sad reality for me and quite a few other fans. I was a huge Mike Tomlin fan up to the point he thought he could get away with an attempted trip of a player on Primetime Television, that really upset me. I'm not saying Mike Tomlin is a terrible coach or a cheat but what i will say is that he was gifted a group of guys who were at the top and its very difficult to duplicate that but he has managed to coach a group that looks to a large percentage of fans as undisciplined.

If your boss lays out a clear set of expectations, provides you with a SOP manual for your job, and then offers you repeated attempts to practice your assigned tasks prior to be being evaluated AND you still shit the bed, is that your boss's fault?

I mean at some point the players have to take advantage of the positions for success that the coaching staff puts them in.

If Haley is such a bad play caller and his scheme is so terrible, how is Antonio Brown wide open so often? Point is that AB works hard and takes advantage of the positions the team/coaching staff puts him in. Eli Rogers does not. Juju seems kinda sorta about to be. McDonald does not. I could go on. But I think I've made my perspective clear.

Not sure it is right, but its my 2 cents.

[Neversatisfied]

If your boss lays out a clear set of expectations, provides you with a SOP manual for your job, and then offers you repeated attempts to practice your assigned tasks prior to be being evaluated AND you still shit the bed, is that your boss's fault?

I mean at some point the players have to take advantage of the positions for success that the coaching staff puts them in.

If Haley is such a bad play caller and his scheme is so terrible, how is Antonio Brown wide open so often? Point is that AB works hard and takes advantage of the positions the team/coaching staff puts him in. Eli Rogers does not. Juju seems kinda sorta about to be. McDonald does not. I could go on. But I think I've made my perspective clear.

Not sure it is right, but its my 2 cents.

I agree, if you are given the opportunity to sucseed by your superior and knock it out of the park kudos to you for excelling. We are talkung about different players over a period of 10 season s failing to wrap up on tackles ect. I will not blame Haley, i will Blame the Steelers for talking Ben out of retirement and Tomlin for allowing different players to commit the same mistakes.

[hawaiiansteeler]

No shit Mike!!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/lbuF5Hr0g8FY4guDmt525Pdepe4bzrcQnh1ZDODL8BEL1lBupm MDUWIoERO-fToD3rHQvcQ9kn4PimDweC6xJtEcdKprUAAJbqzy1-ZhCzDjEtTYED7E-3mBGcocs1mUFIUG-Ad3=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu

[BurghBoy412]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/lbuF5Hr0g8FY4guDmt525Pdepe4bzrcQnh1ZDODL8BEL1lBupm MDUWIoERO-fToD3rHQvcQ9kn4PimDweC6xJtEcdKprUAAJbqzy1-ZhCzDjEtTYED7E-3mBGcocs1mUFIUG-Ad3=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nuNice!!

[Edman]

But will Tomlin have the balls to step up and do something?

No.

[DesertSteel]

But will Tomlin have the balls to step up and do something?

No.
What's he gonna do? Bench him and start Jones??

[Mojouw]

[emoji108] what do you propose Tomlin do? Or do you want to just offer clever commentary?


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[86WARD]

Tomlin and Haley hand out these “manuals” and expectations and every week this season, it’s been shoddy play. At what point do the “manuals and expectations” get questioned? It’s impossible that how poorly they are playing can all fall on the players not executing or following the “manual”.

[Mojouw]

QB is missing open receivers. Is overthrowing wide open looks. Is audibling out of run plays to passes anytime a safety twitches pre snap. Etc.

The whole week all I heard was how Ben missed a wide open AB. You realize that was a genius play design?

Repeatedly Steelers players are being put in positions to succeed and are failing to seize that opportunity.

For me that is on the player. Way I see it, the defensive scheme gets you in position to miss the tackle. The player misses the tackle all on their own.

Tomlin can't tackle for the players. He tried that.


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[86WARD]

You can pick examples on every drive of every game but it doesn’t all fall on the players. The play calling has been awful and if it’s in the plan to let Ben audible out of plays into something else, either that audible is bad or maybe the “manual” should no longer let Ben audible out of it.

If you kept making bad decisions at work, eventually your boss would either take that job away from you or not allow you to make decisions without his approval. If he continued to let you make bad decisions and did nothing to rectify it, your bosses, boss may come down on him and he’d be held accountable.

[ALLD]

Did the Steelers even play 10 good quarters so far this season? There is something going on in the locker room that has not been made public. I think some of it is from the Chicago nonsense. I think Ben would rather be somewhere else on Sundays now.

[Lady Steel]

I don't think Ben likes what the NFL has become.

[hawaiiansteeler]

But will Tomlin have the balls to step up and do something?



https://i.imgur.com/Fi4rLAb.jpg?1

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

As I said weeks ago.....this is NOT a good team. All the talent is wasted. Coaching and play calling pathetic. No discipline. A constant down hill slide. So we are like the Bengals but just a little better.

[Iron Steeler]

maybe we should pepper in more screen plays

[Edman]

[emoji108] what do you propose Tomlin do? Or do you want to just offer clever commentary?

Steeler fans won't like this, but maybe a benching. A gamble. Something to get going.

But lets be honest here, Landry is garbage and Dobbs is unproven. So Tomlin doesn't really have much of a choice. Something has to get going.

[AtlantaDan]

I don't think Ben likes what the NFL has become.

It appears it is no longer one of the most important parts of his life based on not just the retirement talk but his comments about the season taking time he could be spending with his family - priorities change at different stages of life

If you are financially set for life (if Ben is not he has bigger problems than 5 INTs this past Sunday) and would rather be doing something else while legitimately concerned about the long term consequences of continuing to play then it probably is time to go

[Moose]

In my opinion there are a HELL of alot of people NOT PLAYING WELL or doing their job. Tomlin not coaching well (doing his job), Haley calling terrible play's and not knowing when to call run/pass plays ( terrible OC), player's missing and/or not making tackles, dropping balls, offensive line not blocking/protecting QB, CB not covering receivers ( 3rd and longs and they give 1st downs), etc., etc.. Yea Tomlin, blame the season so far on Ben.....you asshole ! I agree, Ben isn't an elite QB now (was he ever?), and he's definitely having problems, but Mikey boy, you've been getting a ride for awhile now also.

[Steeldude]

In my opinion there are a HELL of alot of people NOT PLAYING WELL or doing their job. Tomlin not coaching well (doing his job), Haley calling terrible play's and not knowing when to call run/pass plays ( terrible OC), player's missing and/or not making tackles, dropping balls, offensive line not blocking/protecting QB, CB not covering receivers ( 3rd and longs and they give 1st downs), etc., etc.. Yea Tomlin, blame the season so far on Ben.....you asshole ! I agree, Ben isn't an elite QB now (was he ever?), and he's definitely having problems, but Mikey boy, you've been getting a ride for awhile now also.

Exactly.

[Born2Steel]

In my opinion there are a HELL of alot of people NOT PLAYING WELL or doing their job. Tomlin not coaching well (doing his job), Haley calling terrible play's and not knowing when to call run/pass plays ( terrible OC), player's missing and/or not making tackles, dropping balls, offensive line not blocking/protecting QB, CB not covering receivers ( 3rd and longs and they give 1st downs), etc., etc.. Yea Tomlin, blame the season so far on Ben.....you asshole ! I agree, Ben isn't an elite QB now (was he ever?), and he's definitely having problems, but Mikey boy, you've been getting a ride for awhile now also.

Did you read the article?

[Steeldude]

If the Steelers have all of this claimed talent then the problem would have to be the coaching.

[Moose]

Did you read the article?

Yes i did, thank you for asking. But he didn't really say anything, as usual. We know Ben is a competitor, at least he used to be. And it was nice to see Brown say nice words about Ben, but so what ? I would just like for once see Tomlin get in everyone's ass and calling out everyone for doing the job they are getting paid to do. To me, the article didn't really say anything that we all didn't know, or really care about.

[Born2Steel]

Yes i did, thank you for asking. But he didn't really say anything, as usual. We know Ben is a competitor, at least he used to be. And it was nice to see Brown say nice words about Ben, but so what ? I would just like for once see Tomlin get in everyone's ass and calling out everyone for doing the job they are getting paid to do. To me, the article didn't really say anything that we all didn't know, or really care about.

Then, based on the ability to read, you know what Tomlin WAS saying. When has Tomlin EVER come out in front of the media and blasted players or coaches? I'm willing to bet there are much different conversations going on this week, than those post game comments. Just the fact that Tomlin said, Ben's not playing well, SHOULD cue you that it's being addressed. He said that he won't speak for Ben? Is that a shock? Ben has always owned up when he has a bad game. Tomlin does not speak for guys, nor does he blast them in public. That's who he is. But if you think there's no heat in private, I'm willing to bet you're very wrong.

[Moose]

Then, based on the ability to read, you know what Tomlin WAS saying. When has Tomlin EVER come out in front of the media and blasted players or coaches? I'm willing to bet there are much different conversations going on this week, than those post game comments. Just the fact that Tomlin said, Ben's not playing well, SHOULD cue you that it's being addressed. He said that he won't speak for Ben? Is that a shock? Ben has always owned up when he has a bad game. Tomlin does not speak for guys, nor does he blast them in public. That's who he is. But if you think there's no heat in private, I'm willing to bet you're very wrong.

I sure hope you're right. I'd like to know that he is getting in someone's face in the office ( behind closed doors) or in the locker room. Tomlin seems classy enough not to get the media involved, but I've never heard of anyone saying that Tomlin was in Haley's ass for play calling, etc..

[DesertSteel]

Then, based on the ability to read, you know what Tomlin WAS saying. When has Tomlin EVER come out in front of the media and blasted players or coaches? I'm willing to bet there are much different conversations going on this week, than those post game comments. Just the fact that Tomlin said, Ben's not playing well, SHOULD cue you that it's being addressed. He said that he won't speak for Ben? Is that a shock? Ben has always owned up when he has a bad game. Tomlin does not speak for guys, nor does he blast them in public. That's who he is. But if you think there's no heat in private, I'm willing to bet you're very wrong.
You really think Tomlin brings the heat on any of his star players? I just can't see it. There's no proof. When has AB ever stopped committing stupid penalties, as an example?

[Born2Steel]

You really think Tomlin brings the heat on any of his star players? I just can't see it. There's no proof. When has AB ever stopped committing stupid penalties, as an example?

Coaches coach.

[Mojouw]

I will take Tomlins win % and Top 6 all time through his first 10 years win ranking as evidence that he might know a thing or two about coaching.

Does that place him beyond criticism? Of course not. But to argue that he doesn't coach is kinda flying hard in the face of you know, evidence, and stuff.

[DesertSteel]

Coaches coach.
Well... sometimes they get fired. Since that will never happen to Tomlin and he knows it that causes him to be mellow with his players. If he was getting heat, he'd be giving it. That's the way it works.

- - - Updated - - -


I will take Tomlins win % and Top 6 all time through his first 10 years win ranking as evidence that he might know a thing or two about coaching.

Does that place him beyond criticism? Of course not. But to argue that he doesn't coach is kinda flying hard in the face of you know, evidence, and stuff.
All leaders have weaknesses. Discipline is his. It only becomes a problem when you have several diva type stars.

[teegre]

Discipline is his.

I’ve seen this repeatedly mentioned, but I just don’t get why that is the perception...

[86WARD]

Did the Steelers even play 10 good quarters so far this season? There is something going on in the locker room that has not been made public. I think some of it is from the Chicago nonsense. I think Ben would rather be somewhere else on Sundays now.

It’s been made public. Brown is pissed about the Chicago thing. He wanted to kneel along with some others, Ben didn’t want to kneel, they decided to do what they did and then AV went out and did something totally different without anyone knowing. There’s a split in the locker room and that was a big influence on ABs hissy fit on the sidelines as he thinks Ben snubbed him on purpose.

[Mojouw]

It’s been made public. Brown is pissed about the Chicago thing. He wanted to kneel along with some others, Ben didn’t want to kneel, they decided to do what they did and then AV went out and did something totally different without anyone knowing. There’s a split in the locker room and that was a big influence on ABs hissy fit on the sidelines as he thinks Ben snubbed him on purpose.

Has any legitimate outlet presented this information? I usually vacuum up all the Steelers news I can find. Would love to see this story.


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[AtlantaDan]

Has any legitimate outlet presented this information? I usually vacuum up all the Steelers news I can find. Would love to see this story.

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Jason La Canfora CBS - not a blogger in his basement

Brown has been at odds with quarterback and team captain Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493043/ben-roethlisberger) recently in the aftermath of a highly-charged series of events dating back to the Steelers' decision to stay off the sidelines for the national anthem in Chicago two weeks ago. Roethlisberger spearheaded a decision to reverse course and have the players remain in the tunnel rather than on the sidelines as originally intended, which was the topic of an emotional team meeting the following day. During that meeting, sources said, Brown expressed his displeasure with how Roethlisberger and others handled the matter, and there was some lingering resentment through the week.

Sources said Brown has felt strongly the urge to kneel in protest during the anthem, but the Steelers have been in unison standing or remaining off the field during the playing of it. Sunday, when the quarterback did not throw to him early in the game,when he was wide open for a possible TD, Brown took it personally and believed it was related to his recent dispute with Roethlisberger, according to the sources, which led to his sideline blow-up.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-browns-week-4-sideline-tirade-had-roots-in-steelers-week-3-anthem-decision/

La Canfora also had his name on the earlier story that some Steelers were upset with Ben about how he handled the fallout from the anthem fiasco

Roethlisberger ticked off some teammates when he produced a personal public statement Monday on his website expressing regret for how the team handled the protest before teammates like decorated former Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2129295/alejandro-villanueva) had addressed the matter first.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-still-upset-about-how-last-weeks-national-anthem-protest-was-handled/

So someone on the team is talking to La Canfora

Of course La Canfora had to walk back his story this week that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the anthem if signed, so who knows what his Steelers source(s) actually told La Canfora about what is going on

A CBS sports writer who said Sunday that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the national anthem if he signed with another NFL team is now saying he never asked the quarterback about the issue.... "Standing for Anthem wasn't something that I spoke to Colin about," La Canfora wrote in a series of tweets he said were meant to "clarify" his report. "I relayed what had been reported about him standing in the future."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/08/media/cbs-sports-colin-kaepernick/index.html

[Mojouw]

Jason La Canfora CBS - not a blogger in his basement

Brown has been at odds with quarterback and team captain Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493043/ben-roethlisberger) recently in the aftermath of a highly-charged series of events dating back to the Steelers' decision to stay off the sidelines for the national anthem in Chicago two weeks ago. Roethlisberger spearheaded a decision to reverse course and have the players remain in the tunnel rather than on the sidelines as originally intended, which was the topic of an emotional team meeting the following day. During that meeting, sources said, Brown expressed his displeasure with how Roethlisberger and others handled the matter, and there was some lingering resentment through the week.

Sources said Brown has felt strongly the urge to kneel in protest during the anthem, but the Steelers have been in unison standing or remaining off the field during the playing of it. Sunday, when the quarterback did not throw to him early in the game,when he was wide open for a possible TD, Brown took it personally and believed it was related to his recent dispute with Roethlisberger, according to the sources, which led to his sideline blow-up.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-browns-week-4-sideline-tirade-had-roots-in-steelers-week-3-anthem-decision/

La Canfora also had his name on the earlier story that some Steelers were upset with Ben about how he handled the fallout from the anthem fiasco

Roethlisberger ticked off some teammates when he produced a personal public statement Monday on his website expressing regret for how the team handled the protest before teammates like decorated former Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2129295/alejandro-villanueva) had addressed the matter first.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-still-upset-about-how-last-weeks-national-anthem-protest-was-handled/

So someone on the team is talking to La Canfora

Of course La Canfora had to walk back his story this week that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the anthem if signed, so who knows what his Steelers source(s) actually told La Canfora about what is going on

A CBS sports writer who said Sunday that Colin Kaepernick would stand for the national anthem if he signed with another NFL team is now saying he never asked the quarterback about the issue.... "Standing for Anthem wasn't something that I spoke to Colin about," La Canfora wrote in a series of tweets he said were meant to "clarify" his report. "I relayed what had been reported about him standing in the future."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/08/media/cbs-sports-colin-kaepernick/index.html

Interesting. Totally missed this. Surprised that LaCanfora is the only one who has it. Makes my spidey sense tingle...

[DesertSteel]

I’ve seen this repeatedly mentioned, but I just don’t get why that is the perception...
AB's antics are the perfect example. When has he ever been disciplined for any of his antics?

[teegre]

AB's antics are the perfect example. When has he ever been disciplined for any of his antics?

First, let’s list those antics:
-Gatorade cooler throwing
-Facebook Live
-celebrations
-anything else???

How do we know whether AB was disciplined or not? I’m really asking. Tomlin doesn’t say much in public/to the media (that’s Rex Ryan’s forté).

As far as I recall, Tomlin addressed the Gatorade issue this past week (“Not his first rodeo”). Similar comments were made after the Facebook Live incident; AB even apologized publicly. And, the penalties for celebrations have all but disappeared.



Again, I’m interested in why this perception exists. Is it because Tomlin doesn’t yell at his players? Truly, I’m asking.

[DesertSteel]

First, let’s list those antics:
-Gatorade cooler throwing
-Facebook Live
-celebrations
-anything else???

How do we know whether AB was disciplined or not? I’m really asking. Tomlin doesn’t say much in public/to the media (that’s Rex Ryan’s forté).

As far as I recall, Tomlin addressed the Gatorade issue this past week (“Not his first rodeo”). Similar comments were made after the Facebook Live incident; AB even apologized publicly. And, the penalties for celebrations have all but disappeared.



Again, I’m interested in why this perception exists. Is it because Tomlin doesn’t yell at his players? Truly, I’m asking.
If we just isolate the celebrations I can draw the conclusion that no discipline was handed down because the behavior never changed.

As someone who's been in senior management and leadership for over 25 years my read on Tomlin is that he likes the public bravado but he avoids personal confrontation. That's my psychological analysis. I could be wrong but I can't point to any piece of evidence that disproves it.

As for the penalties, they simply changed the rules.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I’ve seen this repeatedly mentioned, but I just don’t get why that is the perception...

I think because people think that you can discipline players like you can college or highschool kids. That is false, as these are grown men, who are part of a union in their workplace. He treats them like men and not kids, that is why college coaches like Petrino, Spurrier, Saban, Chip Kelly etc could not be productive with NFL players.

[Mojouw]

I think because people think that you can discipline players like you can college or highschool kids. That is false, as these are grown men, who are part of a union in their workplace. He treats them like men and not kids, that is why college coaches like Petrino, Spurrier, Saban, Chip Kelly etc could not be productive with NFL players.

Thank you. I've been thinking and trying to say this for a long time.

You've expressed it more clearly and directly than I could ever manage.

[BlackAndGold]

Nobody takes La Canfora seriously anymore.

[teegre]

If we just isolate the celebrations I can draw the conclusion that no discipline was handed down because the behavior never changed.

As someone who's been in senior management and leadership for over 25 years my read on Tomlin is that he likes the public bravado but he avoids personal confrontation. That's my psychological analysis. I could be wrong but I can't point to any piece of evidence that disproves it.

As for the penalties, they simply changed the rules.

How can you draw that conclusion? When was AB’s last personal foul penalty?

As far as the rules changing, maybe the NFL realized that they were merely targeting certain players (as opposed to actually disciplining anything). For example, on the same day that AB got penalized for doing the exact same celebration as two other players.

As someone who has been in education for 25 years (weird parallel between your & my ages), the way that one handles discipline varies depending on a variety of factors. You do not discipline a kindergartner the same way that you would a third grader... or eighth grader... or senior in high school... which confirms what El Gonzo just wrote.

IMO, regardless of age, yelling at them is the least effective method (it gets immediate results, but makes no long-term difference in behavior). And, sometimes, discipline takes TIME: rarely does a child/teen/adult change instantaneously; it’s a progression that is quick for some (first time) and longer for others (years).

[pczach]

How can you draw that conclusion? When was AB’s last personal foul penalty?

As far as the rules changing, maybe the NFL realized that they were merely targeting certain players (as opposed to actually disciplining anything). For example, on the same day that AB got penalized for doing the exact same celebration as two other players.

As someone who has been in education for 25 years (weird parallel between your & my ages), the way that one handles discipline varies depending on a variety of factors. You do not discipline a kindergartner the same way that you would a third grader... or eighth grader... or senior in high school... which confirms what El Gonzo just wrote.

IMO, regardless of age, yelling at them is the least effective method (it gets immediate results, but makes no long-term difference in behavior). And, sometimes, discipline takes TIME: rarely does a child/teen/adult change instantaneously; it’s a progression that is quick for some (first time) and longer for others (years).


So you're saying they can't make AB sit in the corner and be quiet? A timeout seems appropriate. :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

People have the wrong idea about football and discipline entirely. NFL players don't have jobs because they play nice with others. Most are egomaniacs at best. Coaches literally have to pick their battles with their athletes. The AB facebook thing was something that got immediately shut down. AB's tantrum on the sideline was addressed. The TD celebration penalties were allowed to continue because that is what AB gets paid to do, AND it wasn't costing anything we couldn't afford. It's not that there is NO discipline, it's some things bother you more than other things, and when Tomlin doesn't make one of those things HIS priority, then Tomlin doesn't discipline. Go from managing people YOU employ, to overseeing a bunch of subcontractors and their crews. You'll understand a bit more how coaching works.

[AtlantaDan]

Nobody takes La Canfora seriously anymore.

Interesting

Do you think he just made up both stories or that his source(s) gave him bad information?

[86WARD]

Has any legitimate outlet presented this information? I usually vacuum up all the Steelers news I can find. Would love to see this story.


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Laconfora tweeted it out on Sunday or Monday with a link to some story. Not sure how legit it is but it makes sense why AB would be so animated for one missed read.

Edit: whoops....didn’t see you found it already.

[DesertSteel]

How can you draw that conclusion? When was AB’s last personal foul penalty?

As far as the rules changing, maybe the NFL realized that they were merely targeting certain players (as opposed to actually disciplining anything). For example, on the same day that AB got penalized for doing the exact same celebration as two other players.

As someone who has been in education for 25 years (weird parallel between your & my ages), the way that one handles discipline varies depending on a variety of factors. You do not discipline a kindergartner the same way that you would a third grader... or eighth grader... or senior in high school... which confirms what El Gonzo just wrote.

IMO, regardless of age, yelling at them is the least effective method (it gets immediate results, but makes no long-term difference in behavior). And, sometimes, discipline takes TIME: rarely does a child/teen/adult change instantaneously; it’s a progression that is quick for some (first time) and longer for others (years).

Once more, the last penalty was last year, when the rules were different. But there is a body of evidence that goes back about four years.

I'm not suggesting that Tomlin discipline the players like high school kids. But are we suggesting that grown men don't have consequences for their actions? Facebook Live in the locker room while the coach is addressing the team?

Tomlin is a players' coach. And it works. It's only problematic when there are multiple divas (and that's what Ben, Bell and Brown are) and things are starting to run amuck.

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/10/four-receiver-sets-way-improve-steelers-offense/


Four Receiver Sets One Way To Improve Steelers’ Offense More no huddle? More cowbell?

[teegre]

Once more, the last penalty was last year, when the rules were different. But there is a body of evidence that goes back about four years.

I'm not suggesting that Tomlin discipline the players like high school kids. But are we suggesting that grown men don't have consequences for their actions? Facebook Live in the locker room while the coach is addressing the team?

Tomlin is a players' coach. And it works. It's only problematic when there are multiple divas (and that's what Ben, Bell and Brown are) and things are starting to run amuck.

Of course you can discipline grown men, but it’s much different than the way you’d discipline a college kid (let alone a high school kid).

And, just because we don’t “see” Tomlin disciplining his players on the sideline doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen behind closed doors.

[DesertSteel]

Of course you can discipline grown men, but it’s much different than the way you’d discipline a college kid (let alone a high school kid).

And, just because we don’t “see” Tomlin disciplining his players on the sideline doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen behind closed doors.

I've just never seen any evidence of it. Nor have I heard a former player talk about it. It could be happening. Maybe I'm forgetting about an occurrence and need reminded of when there were known ramifications to any player who was a starter. Someone post up if in 10 years you know of one.

[teegre]

I've just never seen any evidence of it. Nor have I heard a former player talk about it. It could be happening. Maybe I'm forgetting about an occurrence and need reminded of when there were known ramifications to any player who was a starter. Someone post up if in 10 years you know of one.

Santonio getting traded.

[DesertSteel]

Santonio getting traded.
That's an example that has some merit. I tend to believe that was an upstairs call, but who knows.

[Craic]

That's an example that has some merit. I tend to believe that was an upstairs call, but who knows.

Santonio was also scratched from the roster for that game, and that was all Tomlin.

[86WARD]

Tomlin is known to have a “dog house” no? Ask a couple DBs and WRs...

[tube517]

Tomlin is known to have a “dog house” no? Ask a couple DBs and WRs...

And RBs that spin alot. He was benched twice, IIRC.

[DesertSteel]

Santonio was also scratched from the roster for that game, and that was all Tomlin.
That's a valid one.

[Mojouw]

Eli Rogers sat multiple games already this season. That was "discipline".

Martavis Bryant was kept off the field for about half his rookie year until he demonstrated the practice habits and learning that the coaching staff demanded. Multiple defensive players over the years been in that boat as well.

Harrison was re-inserted into the starting line-up when Jones was ineffective and blew assignments last season.

Over the years, Tomlin has shuffled the deck on who starts and gets a gameday hat based on player conduct in practice and meeting rooms. That is a form of discipline.

We know from early reports from vets like Hines Ward - Tomlin's use of the "News" in the film room to call players to the carpet for mental or assignment based breakdowns.

Tomlin has removed players from the game plan during the course of the game for assignment issues (look at Conner last game. Missed a blitz pick-up and then was gone) or ball-security stuff.

I mean he doesn't yell and scream on the sidelines. He doesn't throw his players to the wolves in front of the media like MacAdoo did this season with Eli. He doesn't rant and rave in post game pressers. But that doesn't mean there isn't disciplinary measures behind closed doors. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. That's the whole "closed doors" thing.

[DesertSteel]

Rogers doesn't fit the bill as a star player by any stretch. And Harrison no longer does. My contention is that the stars have no discipline or consequences for their misdeeds.

[Mojouw]

Rogers doesn't fit the bill as a star player by any stretch. And Harrison no longer does. My contention is that the stars have no discipline or consequences for their misdeeds.

What team really disciplines "star" players? Even Bill Parcells once said something about great players having a different set of rules.

[DesertSteel]

What team really disciplines "star" players? Even Bill Parcells once said something about great players having a different set of rules.
I'm not sure that's the case. When behavior stops I can draw a conclusion that there were consequences. AB keeps doing stupid stuff repeatedly. I don't always see repeated stuff from stars on all other teams. Bottom line isn't comparison anyway. Some of this stuff needs dealt with. Even former Steeler players are calling them out.

[Mojouw]

I'm not sure that's the case. When behavior stops I can draw a conclusion that there were no consequences. AB keeps doing stupid stuff repeatedly. I don't always see repeated stuff from stars on all other teams. Bottom line isn't comparison anyway. Some of this stuff needs dealt with. Even former Steeler players are calling them out.

Like Hines Ward? The dude who throw his Qb under the bus on national TV over concussions?

Like Ryan Clark? A ferocious hitter who was known for playing under control and never displaying his emotions on the field?

Puuuhhhhlllleeease. These dudes just like to hear themselves talk. Odell Beckahm went 3 rounds with stuff on the sidelines. Not a darn thing was done by the Giants (I might be remembering wrong).

Like everything on the field that Jay Cutler has ever done. Two weeks ago he just stood there on a wildcat play and the Dolphins staff DEFENDED him!

Like every star WR ever for a period of time in 1990s and early 2000's. Their continued antics were repeatedly put up with because they scored touchdowns and influenced defenses.

Brady's twice a season totally yelling at some teammate on the sidelines. Phillip Rivers now weekly shows of disgust and anger at his teammates.

This is off the top of my head. Bottom line, if you are big $$ NFL player or a QB - no one will say "boo" at anything you do.

[DesertSteel]

Regardless, it's simply my opinion that Tomlin does not like personal confrontation. There is no evidence to the contrary. He's a good coach and I think it'll get turned around. But at this moment, they are grossly under performing. And Clark, Bettis, Hines, et al were great players for the Steelers so I don't dismiss them as easily as you do.

[Craic]

Regardless, it's simply my opinion that Tomlin does not like personal confrontation. There is no evidence to the contrary. He's a good coach and I think it'll get turned around. But at this moment, they are grossly under performing. And Clark, Bettis, Hines, et al were great players for the Steelers so I don't dismiss them as easily as you do.

Where in the world do you get the impression he does not like personal confrontation? He personally confronted Reggie Nelson after his hit on Le'Veon Bell. He confronts his players every week with his "best of" (or, worst of, actually) film. He sat Santo Holmes, claimed he walked past five superbowl trophies not five rushing trophies in response to Willie P. (and you think that wouldn't cause a personal confrontation?). In fact, there is more evidence to suggest he is more confrontational behind the scenes than he needs to be, especially with how big his doghouse is.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Rogers doesn't fit the bill as a star player by any stretch. And Harrison no longer does. My contention is that the stars have no discipline or consequences for their misdeeds.

valid complaint. do you have a valid solution tied in with realistic expectations to boot?

[DesertSteel]

Where in the world do you get the impression he does not like personal confrontation? He personally confronted Reggie Nelson after his hit on Le'Veon Bell. He confronts his players every week with his "best of" (or, worst of, actually) film. He sat Santo Holmes, claimed he walked past five superbowl trophies not five rushing trophies in response to Willie P. (and you think that wouldn't cause a personal confrontation?). In fact, there is more evidence to suggest he is more confrontational behind the scenes than he needs to be, especially with how big his doghouse is.

My read is public bravado - e.g., Nelson, comments to the media, film, etc. Holmes is the best example to him holding stars accountable. But his handling of AB is the best example of failure to hold them accountable. I very well could be wrong in my opinion. I just don't see enough evidence to disprove it.

- - - Updated - - -

Further, I've read many comments by beat writers that question Tomlin's lack of control with star players. They have a better view than my armchair. And that's all I'm doing - being an armchair psychologist.

[Craic]

My read is public bravado - e.g., Nelson, comments to the media, film, etc. Holmes is the best example to him holding stars accountable. But his handling of AB is the best example of failure to hold them accountable. I very well could be wrong in my opinion. I just don't see enough evidence to disprove it.

- - - Updated - - -

Further, I've read many comments by beat writers that question Tomlin's lack of control with star players. They have a better view than my armchair. And that's all I'm doing - being an armchair psychologist.

Fair enough. I just reread my post and realized it came across a little more snarky/pointed that I meant it to. Thanks for overlooking the tone. :drink: <--Preacher's Pepsi.

[Mojouw]

If Tomlin didn't have about the same level of control over star players (which isn't that much) as every other team in the league - then he wouldn't have won 6 out of every 10 games for his career.

AB's largest "problems" have been stupid crap because he wants to be a brand or something. On the field he has been the most dominant WR in the game.

What disciplinary measures are we talking about here? Benching him? For being too good at his job?

Are we advocating that any player who misses a block, or misses a run fill, or drops a pass should get a seat on the bench? Have to run extra laps like a rec league team?

Everyone on the internet wants to talk about discipline and the lack thereof somehow being a major factor in each and every Steelers loss or less than dominant win. But I have yet to see anyone, forum poster or blogger or beat writer, actually propose some sort of actionable items. What is this "discipline" that is apparently the key to pro football going to look like when Tomlin puts it in place? Guys getting yanked in and out of line-ups? Guys getting benched? Demoted?

Would it be great if the team never missed an assignment, took no penalties, ran every route properly, made all their reads and keys perfectly, etc? Absolutely. But no team has ever done that ever. Belichick gets held up often as the current best coach and creator of the most "disciplined" teams. Have you watched this team play football this year? All kinds of mistakes, especially on defense. And they lost a few games that everyone expected them to win. Clearly that means the Pats (who apparently have everyone on this board convinced they are the end all be all) are an undisciplined team that has problems with players in the locker room.

Look, I think the Steelers kinda stink right now too. But I just don't think there has to be all these odd intangible reasons when there are numerous actual football things clearly exhibited on game tape to place the blame on.

Right now, the o-line can't block, the LBs and DBs don't do run support well, and the QB is pressing to make big plays every down. It just doesn't seem more complicated than that. This team is trying to win the Super Bowl on every down. Like a slugger swinging from their heels at every pitch.

[DesertSteel]

I'm a Tomlin fan. If you were able to check my record at Steelers Fever for 10 years you'd see I love him as a coach. That said, he seems to have lost some control. I like the fact that we only have 3 coaches in 50 years. But I have started to wonder if that model completely works with today's athletes. The 'tuning out' factor is real. Personally, I hope Tomlin is the coach for another 10 years and we win as least two more Super Bowls with him. But I'm not going to make him immune from criticism. Maybe I'm the one tuning him out when he talks tough in pressers but nothing changes with the player. I don't like how Ben subtly throws him under the bus. I don't like the 'me over team' in AB. I don't like seeing Coordinators shown up on TV. I'd just like to see less bravado and more bite from the head coach.

[Mojouw]

I'm a Tomlin fan. If you were able to check my record at Steelers Fever for 10 years you'd see I love him as a coach. That said, he seems to have lost some control. I like the fact that we only have 3 coaches in 50 years. But I have started to wonder if that model completely works with today's athletes. The 'tuning out' factor is real. Personally, I hope Tomlin is the coach for another 10 years and we win as least two more Super Bowls with him. But I'm not going to make him immune from criticism. Maybe I'm the one tuning him out when he talks tough in pressers but nothing changes with the player. I don't like how Ben subtly throws him under the bus. I don't like the 'me over team' in AB. I don't like seeing Coordinators shown up on TV. I'd just like to see less bravado and more bite from the head coach.

Admittedly, I watch zero press conferences by anyone associated with the Steelers, do not listen to player interviews or radio shows, etc. But I am not sure what this post even means or is referring to.

I've been solidly on record in the past that I don't think there is any point in reading too much into the cliched nonsense that coaches and athletes spew to the press. None of it is real, it is all just noise to allow them to "communicate" with the press without really saying anything.

I have long felt these statements are parsed and over-analyzed like we are reading some sort of secret code that contains the plans to the Deathstar or something. In reality, I don't think Ben R is smart or clever enough to encode criticisms in his weekly statements.

Related to that, I feel that too many assume the public face of the team is the same as the private one. Like Tomlin deals with the press the same way he does players. I highly doubt that. I felt that Tomlin was most pissed about AB's locker room video(s?) because they pulled the curtain back and opened the door to what is intended to stay "in the family". I think in public Tomlin may seem too chill and cliched - but in private? I somehow doubt that he has not learned to clearly communicate his displeasure with folks.
But that is just me, and no one has to agree.

[DesertSteel]

I think in public Tomlin may seem too chill and cliched - but in private? I somehow doubt that he has not learned to clearly communicate his displeasure with folks.
But that is just me, and no one has to agree.
Then in cases such as AB, he simply doesn't care or has no respect for Tomlin's displeasure.

[Born2Steel]

These guys don't work for Tomlin. Tomlin doesn't pay the players. Tomlin coaches. Team owners do have some say in players getting benched based on they pay both player and coach. Some are more involved than others, but ALL do have a say. That said, Tomlin is going to do what is best for the team on the football field. Playing AB, whether he throws tantrums, facebooks, dyes his hair pink, whatever, is what is best for the team on the field. AB is NOT getting benched. NO COACH would bench AB for anything he has done up to this point. It makes no sense that AB should be benched for anything he's done up to this point. And by benched, I'm including many forms of 'DISCIPLINE' coaches use. When Shaq was told he needed to run lines for every free throw he missed, Shaq simply told his coach, "I don't run lines". So, I'm thinking there is confusion on just how much power coaches have over the players with just handing out discipline as they see fit. It's a bit more complicated, especially with star players.

[Mojouw]

I will put this is simply as I can and not my typically wordy fashion (too late):

If you were the head coach of the Steelers what, specifically, would you do under the heading of "discipline"? For example, how would you "discipline" AB?

[DesertSteel]

I will put this is simply as I can and not my typically wordy fashion (too late):

If you were the head coach of the Steelers what, specifically, would you do under the heading of "discipline"? For example, how would you "discipline" AB?

Celebration penalties: Fine him
Facebook live/ Shoving coach away: Suspend him 1 game

[Mojouw]

Celebration penalties: Fine him
Facebook live/ Shoving coach away: Suspend him 1 game

I can see that. Personally, I wouldn't suspend my best player for a play-off game, but there is a totally legitimate case to be made for doing so.

[DesertSteel]

I can see that. Personally, I wouldn't suspend my best player for a play-off game, but there is a totally legitimate case to be made for doing so.
It would've been hard. But wow, what a message it would've sent. And in hindsight it wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome of the game.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, what's next... spitting in a coach's face? Will they come out and say: that's just his competitive juices and do nothing?

I realize this thread is about Ben and not AB so I don't want to continue to derail. But right now Ben's feet need to be held to the fire a little about his on field play. His side drama will always be there but at least his game performance outweighed it.

[AtlantaDan]

This FiveThirtyEight article contends Ben should be OK

Don’t Give Up On Ben Roethlisberger Just Yet

We identified several quarterbacks who struggled in the first five games of their age-35 seasons when compared to what they did through age 34.1 (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-give-up-on-ben-roethlisberger-just-yet/?addata=espn:frontpage#fn-1) In almost every case, these QBs bounced back to something much closer to their established levels. To be sure, there’s some selection bias at play here — most of these quarterbacks are generally excellent, because erratic and unreliable passers do not usually last in the NFL until they are 35.

Among the passers on this list, the average QB rating improved from 71.2 in the first five games to 86.0 for the remainder of the season. ...

The real explanation for Roethlisberger’s poor start may be the decline in efficiency of his two top targets, wideout Antonio Brown and running back Le’Veon Bell.

On Roethlisberger’s 62 targets to Brown this year, his passer rating has dropped to just 71, down from 112.2 on 480 targets in the past three years. And while it’s hard to tell from a passer rating whether the quarterback or receiver is more to blame, other stats provide some evidence that the 29-year-old Brown is not quite himself this year. According to the NFL, defenses are playing Brown much more tightly at the snap — his average cushion has declined from 5.2 to 4.5 yards, one of the lowest among all receivers. But he’s not making defensive backs pay by running by them, as his average separation is unchanged (2.9 yards).

Bell’s receiving ability, meanwhile, is downright ordinary this year. The prior three years, Roethlisberger had 105 passer rating when throwing to Bell. This year, it’s 85.4. Bell is averaging 3.85 yards before contact and just 1.48 after. The prior three years, those figures were 6.64 and 2.20. It’s hard to blame Roethlisberger for Bell being unable to get open and make defenders miss.

Unless Roethlisberger is a huge outlier and suddenly craters at age 35, or Bell and Brown have completely lost their ability to be dominant receiving threats, it seems there actually is little reason for Steelers fans to panic

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dont-give-up-on-ben-roethlisberger-just-yet/?addata=espn:frontpage

[zulater]

I heard Matt Williams give what to me came across as an honest assessment of where Ben is and what the problem most likely is. He started off by saying that former Niners coach Bill Walsh always said he could watch a qb from the waist down and tell you how well he was throwing the ball. That much of what determines the consistency of a qb's throws are his lower body mechanics. In example Dan Marino was never the same thrower after blowing out his achillies. The NIners let Montana go because his multiple back injuries affected his throwing motion. Now of course these are two great qb's who still had good seasons after these problems. But the magic was gone. They went from great to merely good. Anyway getting back to Matt's observations on Ben, he says you can see it in practice. All those lower leg injuries over the years have affected how Ben moves ( how could it not?) how he sets up, how he delivers the ball etc... So the answer is he's probably not going to be as consistent of passer as he was 2 seasons ago. That's not to say he's washed up, just that game planning him to throw 35+ times is not going to win you many games anymore. The offense needs to funnel through 26. Plain and simple. If Haley and Ben can accept that we've got a helluva chance this season. After all Elway won two SB's after his prime. Same with Peyton a couple years back. It's all about understanding who and what you are. Keep Ben's attempts at a reasonable number and he'll be fine.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I heard Matt Williams give what to me came across as an honest assessment of where Ben is and what the problem most likely is. He started off by saying that former Niners coach Bill Walsh always said he could watch a qb from the waist down and tell you how well he was throwing the ball. That much of what determines the consistency of a qb's throws are his lower body mechanics. In example Dan Marino was never the same thrower after blowing out his achillies. The NIners let Montana go because his multiple back injuries affected his throwing motion. Now of course these are two great qb's who still had good seasons after these problems. But the magic was gone. They went from great to merely good. Anyway getting back to Matt's observations on Ben, he says you can see it in practice. All those lower leg injuries over the years have affected how Ben moves ( how could it not?) how he sets up, how he delivers the ball etc... So the answer is he's probably not going to be as consistent of passer as he was 2 seasons ago. That's not to say he's washed up, just that game planning him to throw 35+ times is not going to win you many games anymore. The offense needs to funnel through 26. Plain and simple. If Haley and Ben can accept that we've got a helluva chance this season. After all Elway won two SB's after his prime. Same with Peyton a couple years back. It's all about understanding who and what you are. Keep Ben's attempts at a reasonable number and he'll be fine. Ben pretty much knows this about himself and told Bell last year in the playoffs, you are pretty much going to have to shoulder the load. You need to have a Terrell Davis like post season.

[teegre]

I heard Matt Williams give what to me came across as an honest assessment of where Ben is and what the problem most likely is. He started off by saying that former Niners coach Bill Walsh always said he could watch a qb from the waist down and tell you how well he was throwing the ball. That much of what determines the consistency of a qb's throws are his lower body mechanics. In example Dan Marino was never the same thrower after blowing out his achillies. The NIners let Montana go because his multiple back injuries affected his throwing motion. Now of course these are two great qb's who still had good seasons after these problems. But the magic was gone. They went from great to merely good. Anyway getting back to Matt's observations on Ben, he says you can see it in practice. All those lower leg injuries over the years have affected how Ben moves ( how could it not?) how he sets up, how he delivers the ball etc... So the answer is he's probably not going to be as consistent of passer as he was 2 seasons ago. That's not to say he's washed up, just that game planning him to throw 35+ times is not going to win you many games anymore. The offense needs to funnel through 26. Plain and simple. If Haley and Ben can accept that we've got a helluva chance this season. After all Elway won two SB's after his prime. Same with Peyton a couple years back. It's all about understanding who and what you are. Keep Ben's attempts at a reasonable number and he'll be fine.

This needed to be bumped... and read by everyone.

[AtlantaDan]

I'm not sure that's the case. When behavior stops I can draw a conclusion that there were consequences. AB keeps doing stupid stuff repeatedly. I don't always see repeated stuff from stars on all other teams. Bottom line isn't comparison anyway. Some of this stuff needs dealt with. Even former Steeler players are calling them out.

Ernie Holmes shot a law enforcement officer in 1973 and did not miss a down

Joe Greene threw a football into the stands in the last game of his rookie season and was not pulled from the game by Coach Noll

I remember the end of Joe's first year. Not a very successful season. Philadelphia had the lead and had just made a first down with less than two minutes to play. As the Eagles broke the huddle, Joe was so frustrated, he picked up the ball and threw it into the stands.

http://www.profootballhof.com/news/dan-rooney-s-enshrinement-speech/

That was after he had been ejected from two games earlier in the season

During a galling 13-game losing streak in his rookie season, Greene was thrown out of several games -- one for belting Giants quarterback Fran Tarkenton, and another for flooring two Vikings players on consecutive plays with premeditated forearms.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2007/09/07/A-look-back-Joe-Greene-The-Defiant-Defender/stories/200709070286

Players may be acting out more these days but it is not as if Coach Noll or Coach Cowher repeatedly sat players

After a loss to the Cincinnati Bengals in 2006, Cowher, angry about his team taking dumb penalties, including an excessive celebration call against running backs Willie Parker and Verron Haynes and a taunting call on safety Mike Logan, said, "That will not happen again. That's on me. Trust me, that will not happen again." In the next game against the Atlanta Falcons, wide receivers Nate Washington, Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes were penalized for excessive celebration. In the game after that against the Oakland Raiders, linebackers Joey Porter and Larry Foote and safety Anthony Smith were penalized for personal fouls. "I guess never say never," Cowher said. :chuckle:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2012/10/16/Tomlin-not-to-blame-for-team-s-lack-of-discipline/stories/201210160148

[AtlantaDan]

This PFF analysis (via the Washington Post) of 2017 Ben

He has completely lost the ability to throw accurately down the field. In a downfield passing offense like Pittsburgh’s, that’s a big problem. His 26.7 adjusted completion percentage on throws targeted 20-plus yards downfield is the second-worst of any starter in the NFL. Pro Football Focus tracks stats called Big Time Throws (impressive downfield throws) and Turnover Worthy Throws (throws put in harm’s way, regardless of if they are intercepted or not). The ratio of BTTs to TWTs comprises the Game Changer Index (GCI), and it’s a good measure of a quarterback’s downfield passing capabilities. Below is Roethlisberger’s Game Changer Index by season.


Year
GCI


2014
2.1


2015
2.3


2016
1.2


2017
0.9


If that ratio doesn’t get back to at least somewhere between 2015 and 2016 level, the Steelers are in trouble this season. Unless the defense can pick up the slack....

That brings us then to Pittsburgh’s coverages. They are currently the single most zone-heavy team in the NFL, employing it on 87.7 percent of their passing snaps so far. They make opposing offenses put together entire drives, and they rarely give up big plays. It is, however, a strategy that is dependent on scheme. And schematic advantage can only take you so far. The Steelers only rank seventh in overall coverage grade at Pro Football Focus, despite facing a fairly easy group of passing offenses.

While the outlook for the Steelers isn’t rosy, it’s not exactly bleak. Roethlisberger could break out of his funk at any point in time. At 35 years old, it’s tough to imagine he has completely lost it. Also, the rest of the AFC, and the NFL for that matter, is full of flawed teams. Pittsburgh is among them. And its biggest flaw is under center.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/10/17/the-steelers-may-have-beaten-the-nfls-top-team-but-their-problems-are-hardly-solved/?utm_term=.023d2cf63168

[DesertSteel]

“And it’s bigges flaw is under center.”

Wow! SMH

[hawaiiansteeler]

Joe Greene threw a football into the stands in the last game of his rookie season and was not pulled from the game by Coach Noll

[I]I remember the end of Joe's first year. Not a very successful season. Philadelphia had the lead and had just made a first down with less than two minutes to play. As the Eagles broke the huddle, Joe was so frustrated, he picked up the ball and threw it into the stands.

That was after he had been ejected from two games earlier in the season

[I]During a galling 13-game losing streak in his rookie season, Greene was thrown out of several games -- one for belting Giants quarterback Fran Tarkenton, and another for flooring two Vikings players on consecutive plays with premeditated forearms.



http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs7/2639771_o.gif

[Psycho Ward 86]

Ernie Holmes shot a law enforcement officer in 1973 and did not miss a down

Joe Greene threw a football into the stands in the last game of his rookie season and was not pulled from the game by Coach Noll

I remember the end of Joe's first year. Not a very successful season. Philadelphia had the lead and had just made a first down with less than two minutes to play. As the Eagles broke the huddle, Joe was so frustrated, he picked up the ball and threw it into the stands.

http://www.profootballhof.com/news/dan-rooney-s-enshrinement-speech/

That was after he had been ejected from two games earlier in the season

During a galling 13-game losing streak in his rookie season, Greene was thrown out of several games -- one for belting Giants quarterback Fran Tarkenton, and another for flooring two Vikings players on consecutive plays with premeditated forearms.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2007/09/07/A-look-back-Joe-Greene-The-Defiant-Defender/stories/200709070286

Players may be acting out more these days but it is not as if Coach Noll or Coach Cowher repeatedly sat players

After a loss to the Cincinnati Bengals in 2006, Cowher, angry about his team taking dumb penalties, including an excessive celebration call against running backs Willie Parker and Verron Haynes and a taunting call on safety Mike Logan, said, "That will not happen again. That's on me. Trust me, that will not happen again." In the next game against the Atlanta Falcons, wide receivers Nate Washington, Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes were penalized for excessive celebration. In the game after that against the Oakland Raiders, linebackers Joey Porter and Larry Foote and safety Anthony Smith were penalized for personal fouls. "I guess never say never," Cowher said. :chuckle:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2012/10/16/Tomlin-not-to-blame-for-team-s-lack-of-discipline/stories/201210160148




thats a really fascinating article. thanks for sharing

[tube517]

Ernie Holmes shot a law enforcement officer in 1973 and did not miss a down

Joe Greene threw a football into the stands in the last game of his rookie season and was not pulled from the game by Coach Noll

I remember the end of Joe's first year. Not a very successful season. Philadelphia had the lead and had just made a first down with less than two minutes to play. As the Eagles broke the huddle, Joe was so frustrated, he picked up the ball and threw it into the stands.

http://www.profootballhof.com/news/dan-rooney-s-enshrinement-speech/

That was after he had been ejected from two games earlier in the season

During a galling 13-game losing streak in his rookie season, Greene was thrown out of several games -- one for belting Giants quarterback Fran Tarkenton, and another for flooring two Vikings players on consecutive plays with premeditated forearms.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2007/09/07/A-look-back-Joe-Greene-The-Defiant-Defender/stories/200709070286

Players may be acting out more these days but it is not as if Coach Noll or Coach Cowher repeatedly sat players

After a loss to the Cincinnati Bengals in 2006, Cowher, angry about his team taking dumb penalties, including an excessive celebration call against running backs Willie Parker and Verron Haynes and a taunting call on safety Mike Logan, said, "That will not happen again. That's on me. Trust me, that will not happen again." In the next game against the Atlanta Falcons, wide receivers Nate Washington, Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes were penalized for excessive celebration. In the game after that against the Oakland Raiders, linebackers Joey Porter and Larry Foote and safety Anthony Smith were penalized for personal fouls. "I guess never say never," Cowher said. :chuckle:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2012/10/16/Tomlin-not-to-blame-for-team-s-lack-of-discipline/stories/201210160148


Cowher never reprimanded but Tomlin is the players coach and is too close to the players ???





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