Let's Play A Draft Game

[Mojouw]

Figured this could be fun. And marginally Steelers related. Let's go through some recent draft "controversies" and see how they look know.

Leveon Bell versus Eddie Lacy (Bell)
Leveon Bell versus Arthur Brown (Bell)

Hargrave versus the DT field (so far it is Hargrave in a landslide. Maybe Collins gives him a run) http://pfref.com/tiny/cnDFo

Burns versus the CB field (3d or 4th best CB in the class so far - with most going before Burns came off the board) http://pfref.com/tiny/uiVjq

Watt verus the pass rush field (Watt is second in sacks behind Carl Lawson) http://pfref.com/tiny/LfQFK

I'm sure there are others. But these are some of the more hotly debated ones I can remember recently. To me, the Watt v Lawson thing is the most intriguing. Especially since the Steelers could've had both?

[teegre]

I mentioned the Watt/Lawson thing in the "TJ Watt is Jarvis Jones" thread. My post there was sparked by a mini debate that I was having on Twitter.

I think the consensus (both here and on Twitter) was that Lawson might be the better pass-rusher (he definitely is right now), but that Watt is the better all around linebacker.

[Born2Steel]

Interesting thread idea.

I will keep Bell obviously.

Hargrave has worked out for us very well.

Burns vs the field gets interesting. I'm happy with Burns, but would be interested to see Ramsay or Apple in the Black and Gold too.

Watt or Lawson? Lawson leads by .5 sacks with one more game played. I was a Lawson fan all the way up to about a week before the draft, when I really started looking into his injury history. Problem I had with Watt was he had no history. I was actually a Jordan Willis fan, but 2nd/3rd round. Have to say that for now, week5, I'm very content with TJ Watt.

[teegre]

FWIW... Lawson isn't just about sacks.

There was a stat from the first three weeks, where PFF (take that for what it its worth) ranked every pass rusher by compiling: sacks, hurries, & batted passes. Lawson was at a 23, and the next four of the top five were around 17.

I don't recall what those numbers meant, but Lawson was way, way, way ahead of the pack.


But, I iterate: Watt does everything else better.

[Mojouw]

FWIW... Lawson isn't just about sacks.

There was a stat from the first three weeks, where PFF (take that for what it its worth) ranked every pass rusher by compiling: sacks, hurries, & batted passes. Lawson was at a 23, and the next four of the top five were around 17.

I don't recall what those numbers meant, but Lawson was way, way, way ahead of the pack.


But, I iterate: Watt does everything else better.

I honestly wonder if, in a perfect world, the Steelers take Lawson instead of Conner in the 3rd. Then they take a back instead of the long-snapper in the 6th.

You may ask where you play Watt, Dupree, Lawson, Adams, Shazier, and Williams? I say - I don't care coach better and figure it out.

Heck, kick Watt inside. Tell me that Dupree-Shazier-Watt-Lawson doesn't make some QBs question their life choices. Of course there is the whole taking a guy in the first round and having him switch positions thing...

But Hargrave. Vernon Butler who?

[DesertSteel]

Problem with Hargrave is that they've turned him into a part time player.

[teegre]

I honestly wonder if, in a perfect world, the Steelers take Lawson instead of Conner in the 3rd. Then they take a back instead of the long-snapper in the 6th.

You may ask where you play Watt, Dupree, Lawson, Adams, Shazier, and Williams? I say - I don't care coach better and figure it out.

Heck, kick Watt inside. Tell me that Dupree-Shazier-Watt-Lawson doesn't make some QBs question their life choices. Of course there is the whole taking a guy in the first round and having him switch positions thing...

But Hargrave. Vernon Butler who?

LAWSON:
Tomlin told him that he was going to rush the passer for the Steelers. Once they took Watt, I knew that they wouldn't double-dip until the later rounds... but, it certainly would have been interesting.

As far as moving Watt to ILB, on draft night I asked that very question... because, he was listed as "linebacker" without the words "outside" or "inside." And, yes, I think Watt could indeed have made that switch.

CONNER:
What would have been interesting is if Kareem Hunt was still there when the Conner pick occurred. Supposedly, Hunt was high on their list. But, something tells me that Conner was their guy no matter what.

HARGRAVE:
There was an article written before he was drafted describing his "awesomeness" index. (I don't remember the exact name; so we shall call it "awesomeness".) It wasn't a sports cite, per se... more of a science site. Anyway, it basically said that Hargrave tested off if the charts. For the naysayers, it wasn't combine types of measurables; it was based off of analysis of game film. Once I read it, I dropped all other D-linemen from my list, and mocked him to the Steelers in R2.

[Mojouw]

LAWSON:
Tomlin told him that he was going to rush the passer for the Steelers. Once they took Watt, I knew that they wouldn't double-dip until the later rounds... but, it certainly would have been interesting.

As far as moving Watt to ILB, on draft night I asked that very question... because, he was listed as "linebacker" without the words "outside" or "inside." And, yes, I think Watt could indeed have made that switch.

CONNER:
What would have been interesting is if Kareem Hunt was still there when the Conner pick occurred. Supposedly, Hunt was high on their list. But, something tells me that Conner was their guy no matter what.

HARGRAVE:
There was an article written before he was drafted describing his "awesomeness" index. (I don't remember the exact name; so we shall call it "awesomeness".) It wasn't a sports cite, per se... more of a science site. Anyway, it basically said that Hargrave tested off if the charts. For the naysayers, it wasn't combine types of measurables; it was based off of analysis of game film. Once I read it, I dropped all other D-linemen from my list, and mocked him to the Steelers in R2.

I didn't know that Tomlin made his draft googly eyes at Hunt. I also think Watt could play inside and be a force from there. He was a thorn in the entire BIG 10's side on inside stunts and rushes.

As for the double-dip; I'm still interested in what they have in Adams. Sounds like a callback to Steelers OLB prospects of days gone by. Yeah, you've never heard of him and we have to teach him to "football" but look out once we do...

Hargrave was just who I was hoping for early in the process. Had a buddy who sent me some breakdowns and tape stuff on him and it was just stunning. I mean they just stole him in that draft. I argue that by the end of this year, people are going to be talking about how come he didn't go in the top 50 picks. I'll admit I did buy into the level of competition thing too much.

[Psycho Ward 86]

LAWSON:
Tomlin told him that he was going to rush the passer for the Steelers. Once they took Watt, I knew that they wouldn't double-dip until the later rounds... but, it certainly would have been interesting.

As far as moving Watt to ILB, on draft night I asked that very question... because, he was listed as "linebacker" without the words "outside" or "inside." And, yes, I think Watt could indeed have made that switch.

CONNER:
What would have been interesting is if Kareem Hunt was still there when the Conner pick occurred. Supposedly, Hunt was high on their list. But, something tells me that Conner was their guy no matter what.

HARGRAVE:
There was an article written before he was drafted describing his "awesomeness" index. (I don't remember the exact name; so we shall call it "awesomeness".) It wasn't a sports cite, per se... more of a science site. Anyway, it basically said that Hargrave tested off if the charts. For the naysayers, it wasn't combine types of measurables; it was based off of analysis of game film. Once I read it, I dropped all other D-linemen from my list, and mocked him to the Steelers in R2.

regarding the metrics on Hargrave, i may have seen the same article. and if its the article im thinking of, basically there was only 1 interior DL in like half a dozen drafts to match Hargrave. That man's name is Aaron Donald

- - - Updated - - -


I didn't know that Tomlin made his draft googly eyes at Hunt. I also think Watt could play inside and be a force from there. He was a thorn in the entire BIG 10's side on inside stunts and rushes.

As for the double-dip; I'm still interested in what they have in Adams. Sounds like a callback to Steelers OLB prospects of days gone by. Yeah, you've never heard of him and we have to teach him to "football" but look out once we do...

Hargrave was just who I was hoping for early in the process. Had a buddy who sent me some breakdowns and tape stuff on him and it was just stunning. I mean they just stole him in that draft. I argue that by the end of this year, people are going to be talking about how come he didn't go in the top 50 picks. I'll admit I did buy into the level of competition thing too much.

Some mock drafts started putting Hargrave into the end of the 1st round. This kid is such a homewrecker im totally down to let Alualu rot on the bench and just let Hargrave eat up snaps for both Tuitt/Heyward anytime they need a breather

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ryan Shazier vs. C.J. Mosley has been hotly debated also

[43Hitman]

Ryan Shazier vs. C.J. Mosley has been hotly debated also
I would stay with Shazier, besides his health at times, he is perfect for our team.

If you start looking back and comparing players, we've done pretty damn good the last few drafts.

[teegre]

regarding the metrics on Hargrave, i may have seen the same article. and if its the article im thinking of, basically there was only 1 interior DL in like half a dozen drafts to match Hargrave. That man's name is Aaron Donald

Bingo!!!

I remembered reading that the only other interior D-lineman to score as high was someone phenomenal (but, my brain couldn’t remember who exactly it was). Thank you. :drink:

[teegre]

I'll admit I did buy into the level of competition thing too much.

Of course. That is logical.

That said, what sold it for me was hearing Meril Hoge talk about Carson Wentz. In a nutshell, Hoge said: “If you can play, you can play.”

[pczach]

Bingo!!!

I remembered reading that the only other interior D-lineman to score as high was someone phenomenal (but, my brain couldn’t remember who exactly it was). Thank you. :drink:


We really did focus on these players as a group here and at other message boards.

Hargrave was my man crush in that draft because I thought he was a first round stud talent that they could get later in the draft. There were a couple of us that looked him over and just loved him very early in the process.

I remember when Artie Burns, Apple, and that group was coming out. I remember you asking me specifically which corner I would take excluding Ramsey of course because it seemed like he's from another planet he was so talented. I remember I told you Apple because of his size and physicality. Burns was a guy with a lot of potential, but it just seemed like he had a lot more developing to do before he got there. I'm very happy with that pick now.

Watt was my #1, and Lawson was my #2 as edge rushers. I think a lot of people felt that way, even though there were others that really were afraid of Lawson's injury history.

I predicted Le'veon Bell would be the best running back in the NFL in short order, so I pretty much had that one right. But I still thought Lacy would be a very good back. Who knew he would eat himself out of playing?:lol:

It really is amazing and how often a lot of us here really do a pretty good job of picking the very best players in the draft at their positions. There are a lot of good football people here with an eye for talent.

[Shoes]

Considering the 2015 TE draft class was weak, I think we got the the best one out of that bunch with JJ. He's topped Williams picked R2, Walford R3, Kroft picked R3. His stats are about equal with Walford but James was taken in R5. Now if he can only learn to block and get those feet moving. :chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Considering the 2015 TE draft class was weak, I think we got the the best one out of that bunch with JJ. He's topped Williams picked R2, Walford R3, Kroft picked R3. His stats are about equal with Walford but James was taken in R5. Now if he can only learn to block and get those feet moving. :chuckle:

you like your tight ends, don't you? :chuckle:

[43Hitman]

you like your tight ends, don't you? :chuckle:
:toofunny:

[hawaiiansteeler]

2018 NFL Draft: 3-round Steelers mock draft

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/13/2018-nfl-draft-3-round-steelers-mock-draft/

[43Hitman]

2018 NFL Draft: 3-round Steelers mock draft

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/13/2018-nfl-draft-3-round-steelers-mock-draft/

I don't see DT at all in the first round. We really need a solid guy at the TE position in my opinion.

[teegre]

I don't see DT at all in the first round.

Exactly.

Hargrave is a home run.

[Mojouw]

I used to spend a lot of time on a Steelers message board that the main author of almost all of the content on Steelerswire posted on routinely. He is a huge draft guy. Just absolutely eats, sleeps, and breathes draft stuff.

That being said, he is an unceasing advocate for massive traditional NTs.

I don’t see how anything other than a reserve DT makes the roster.

[hawaiiansteeler]

We really need a solid guy at the TE position in my opinion.

Shoes, is this you? :lol:

[Shoes]

Shoes, is this you? :lol:

No, but I'm not giving up! :chuckle: We wouldn't be having TE blocking issues if we drafted Kittle, R5 pick and a starter. I would have passed on Sutton or Dobbs which is where I hoped the Steelers would have taken him R3 or R4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abXO8Lb9Dkg

[st33lersguy]

2018 NFL Draft: 3-round Steelers mock draft

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/13/2018-nfl-draft-3-round-steelers-mock-draft/

Steelers don't need to go DL that early, they have 3 solid starters at the position. Going 3 rounds without a QB or TE is a mistake

[teegre]

No, but I'm not giving up! :chuckle: We wouldn't be having TE blocking issues if we drafted Kittle, R5 pick and a starter. I would have passed on Sutton or Dobbs which is where I hoped the Steelers would have taken him R3 or R4

I’ll do you one better...

In 2016, if the Steelers has drafted Dak Prescott instead of Jerald Hawkins (Munchak’s guy), they wouldn’t have needed to draft Dobbs in 2017... making that pick available for Kittle.

[Shoes]

I’ll do you one better...

In 2016, if the Steelers has drafted Dak Prescott instead of Jerald Hawkins (Munchak’s guy), they wouldn’t have needed to draft Dobbs in 2017... making that pick available for Kittle.

Thanks for the reminder Bro! :frusty:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Going 3 rounds without a TE is a mistake

Shoes, is this you? :flap: