Ben is the MAIN reason for road struggles and losses to sub 500 teams.

[StillCurtains]

I'm aware that there are many contributions to today's loss to the Bears. We had a muffed punt and blocked FG on special teams.

We also gave up over 200 yards rushing on defense with countless miss tackling. Harrison should have been given more snaps with Chickillo struggling as well. Although 23 points were scored, they were not all on the defense.

The defense gave the offense a chip shot opportunity for a TD that they did not convert. At the end of regulation, there were only 17 points scored. Although the run defense struggled, giving up only 17 points at the end of regulation should have resulted in a win.

The offense had an opportunity to win it before OT and failed. You just can't continue to put your defense in these situations. In OT, the defense ran out of gas. This is where Ben comes in.

Please don't take this as a lack of love or support for the Steelers because I happen to be critical on this topic. I love the Steelers and I Love Ben. I appreciate all of the years that Ben has given us as well as the 2 Superbowl wins. We can't win without him. However, it doesn't mean that I don't have Ben as the main cause of blame on this subject.

Ben is the one that claimed that he felt the AFCCG this past year was too big for the young guys. This was to indicate that he was tired and demanded better play. It affected him so strongly that he pondered retirement. It's understandable, he wants a championship.

With all that said, you would expect Ben to come in to the season with a renewed sense of urgency. A razor sharp focus after his fresh experience off of that AFCCG. Ben is a 14 year veteran. As a QB and leader of your team, there is no excuse for your team's poor play and losses to bad teams.

If he doesn't want to experience what he has in the AFCCG he must first start with himself. After his threat of retirement it's still more of the same. Ben is surrounded with argueably the best offensive talent in all of football. There is no excuse for these struggles. Blame it on Haley? Maybe but only to an extent. The truth is that although Ben and Haley had a rough beginning when he first got here, Haley now calls the plays that Ben LIKES to run.

Blame it on rust from Bell and Bryant? Nope! History has proven over the past several years against inferior oponents as well as on the road, that this putrid play has existed well before rust has settled on Bell and Bryant this year no matter WHO we have had on the field in years past.

The truth is that Ben doesn't play smart and efficient football. He doesn't look at the overall picture to win the game. He doesn't play the percentages. Ben throws in triple coverage. He forces the ball to AB. There also is no reason that Bryant should only have 2 catches for 39 yards. That shows a lack of targets to Bryant.

Ben likes to call a cute game. He throws deep on 3rd and short. He refuses to play the high percentage game to extend the drive and get points. Instead, he throws a low percentage deep ball and we end up punting. There is too much talent not to get short yardage to extend drives.

It results in letting the opposing defense off the hook with a punt instead of an earned stop. What happens next is the opposing team's crowd gets loud and their team gets energized and confident. Each offensive possession then goes to wash, rinse and repeat and the dam finally breaks on the defense.

We all may hate to admit it, but if Brady was the QB in this game today instead of Ben, he would have hung 40 plus on this Bears team with this kind of talent and this game would have never been in question. You would think after 14 years, Ben would have a much better grasp on how this works.

Things are very difficult when it comes to playing on the road. You're going to face adversity. However, when things are going rough, I never see Ben huddle up with the team and speaking of the urgency of the situation. I never see him firing them up as the crowd is getting more raucous against them.

Maybe it's because he doesn't see or value the urgency himself? I sure hope that's not the case.

[st33lersguy]

I saw a point on Behind the Steel Curtain saying Road Ben will not lead this team to a Super Bowl and I agree totally. The play on the road has stunk this year

[Mojouw]

Maybe he needs to bring the wife along on road trips...

[Shoes]

I saw a point on Behind the Steel Curtain saying Road Ben will not lead this team to a Super Bowl and I agree totally. The play on the road has stunk this year

Maybe not, but he's still my pick (pimples and all) over Dalton, Flacco and Kizer.

- - - Updated - - -


Maybe he needs to bring the wife along on road trips...


Can't she has to work for a living.

[GBMelBlount]

I agree with the thread title.

Ben plays better when he has a reason to - underdog, under duress, season is on the line, etc.

A game like today when we are in first place and playing a mediocre team, is a recipe for mediocrity imo...and I think it trickles down to the rest of the team as well.

[teegre]

I agree with the thread title.

Ben plays better when he has a reason to - underdog, under duress, season is on the line, etc.

A game like today when we are in first place and playing a mediocre team, is a recipe for mediocrity imo...and I think it trickles down to the rest of the team as well.

My brother & I have often stated that BB plays better when his adrenaline is going: after a small injury, when the game is on the line, when he's pissed off... et cetera.

My brother & I have half-joked that Deebo should kick BB in the shins before every offensive drive.

[Moose]

That's where the coaches need to prepare. Apparently these 'so called' men don't have the mentality to get pumped for a game and come out to kick ass and win the games they are supposed to. Games like this Bear's game, believe me, is going to come back and haunt this team toward season end. As I always say, 16 game season, ALL games are a must win.

[86WARD]

Cant argue this. More and more it’s starting to look like Ben is the problem with the offense. I love the guy, but his throws are way off target, he audibles to those deep ball throws when it’s warranted, but he can’t hit the target. The offense is a mess...

[GBMelBlount]

My brother & I have often stated that BB plays better when his adrenaline is going: after a small injury, when the game is on the line, when he's pissed off... et cetera.

My brother & I have half-joked that Deebo should kick BB in the shins before every offensive drive.

Yes!

Wasn't there a game against Baltimore where he was blowing farts, got his face smashed, and then played a career game?

Kick him Deebo! :chuckle:

[lipps83]

Big Ben was named after big plays he was physically able to make. That was his forte, and when it is on it can be spectacular, which is why his lack of efficiency is mostly overlooked for his career. It isn't smart football and has never been smart football. Ben has rarely been an adequate cerebral player. His style is reliant on physical skill and not smarts, and Ben's skill is diminishing.

[Neversatisfied]

This happens to every single QB in the NFL and honestly to people in general, as you pass a certain age your physical abilities diminish. Ben has always relied on his back yard style of football to make some extraordinary plays and his body has taken a beating over the years. Bens' accuracy is not anywhere near what it was and its painfully apparent. The Steelers orginization realizes this and we most likely address this in Round 1 of the 2018 draft.

[Craic]

I see what everyone is saying. And in some ways, I do agree. However, I also saw a lot of balls hitting hands or arms and bouncing off. Can't blame Ben for those. The O line has stunk so far this year. Can't really blame Ben for that, either. I think I'd argue it is a team wide problem and Ben is pretty much the mean of the team's performance.

[Hawkman]

Let's start a "fire Munch" thread.

[DesertSteel]

Let's start a "fire Munch" thread.
Now that's something I can get on board with!!!

[Craic]

Let's start a "fire Munch" thread.

Now that's something I can get on board with!!!

It's a shame we didn't draft Jake Butt. Since he's still out with an ACL, we could then blame the loss on Butt-Munch.

[Hawkman]

It's a shame we didn't draft Jake Butt. Since he's still out with an ACL, we could then blame the loss on Butt-Munch.

That's just not right!:heh:

[Steelermania]

I can't disagree with any of this. Ben has the Brett Favre syndrome, and always has. You might note that Favre, despite his great talent, and the fact that he played on good teams, only has one ring. Brady has always played smart ball. When Lebeau would blitz him, he'd throw the ball right to the vacated spot for an 8 yard gain. He'd do it all the way down the field if that's what was there. Very few qbs have the patience to do this, which is why the zone blitz was so effective against most teams. My guess is that if we had faced NE in 2005, 2008, and 2010, we would still be looking for our first Super Bowl appearance since 1995. That said, if Rogers fields that punt, and we execute the fg at the end of the half, this is an easy win. Those 2 plays were a 13 point swing. I can live with things like the strip sack, as sometimes the other guy physically beats you, but you can't just drop a punt, or let a guy from the edge rush in free, and block a kick. This is a 20-7 game without those 2 plays.

We had company on the road today. Denver, and Oakland looked like world beaters the last 2 weeks. They looked worse than the Steelers today, against less than great competition.

[teegre]

We had company on the road today. Denver, and Oakland looked like world beaters the last 2 weeks. They looked worse than the Steelers today, against less than great competition.

Indeed.

Last week, the Raidahs looked like a legitimate #1 seed candidate.

This week, wow!!! only the Ravens had a worse offensive display.

[43Hitman]

Hard to argue with the logic being presented in this thread. At this point we can only hope that the good BB shows up on the road this year, or we'll be sitting at home in February. It's not like we are

in a position to get another franchise QB. I wonder if at some point the coaches sit him down and tell him they are going to dial back the play calling and they no longer want him to audible. That they

want to run a more ball control game management type of offense. How does that end?

[Count Steeler]

Ben lacks the patience needed to really be effective on the deep ball.

I completely disagree with the new philosophy to not play the starters in the preseason. It is as if we are still watching pre season, and that is league wide. Oh and, BTW, back to the tackling drills.

[zulater]

Well I disagree with a lot of what's being said. Yeah Ben's play was sub-par. But this offense is predicated on #26. Last season during the late season winning streak that carried through two rounds of the playoffs the offense ran through Bell. Right now Bell is just a guy. An ordinary back. Blame the blocking all you want but through the course of Bell's first 4 years you can find multiple examples every game where he took a poorly blocked play or just an ordinary hole and through his vision and anticipation made something spectacular happen. If Bell gets right the OL starts looking better. The passing game starts flowing and the points start being scored.

So me. I blame Bell. I'm not even sure his injury is properly healed. Or put it this way. Since he refused to come to camp or OTA's I wonder if his core strength is lacking? There's just no explosion from him right now. Again as I said before he's just another back. James Connor wouldn't do any worse. Isaac Redman redux. The Steelers season hinges of Bell being great. If he doesn't get back to that standard the Steelers are a 7-9 win team.

Oh yeah one other thing. I wonder how much different the game goes yesterday if Martavis Bryant catches the games opening pass? Easy TD if he comes down with it. Went through both of his hands. NFL wr's have to make that play. Anyway a quick start could have put a whole different perspective on all that ensued after.

As for Ben. He needs to play better no doubt. But it's my opinion that if Bell starts playing like a franchise back , the current 2nd and 8's become 2nd and 2's. A 3rd and 4 can be either a pass or a run... etc. If and when that happens Ben's game will round into shape.

If Bell doesn't round into form then we have to change our offensive approach and go more with the downfield passing game. Can Ben carry that out now? I don't know. But what I do know the way the plays are be called, the formations being employed, the personell being deployed, in other words the way our offense is structured right now. It can't succeed until we get more from Bell.
c

[RunNGun]

Well I disagree with a lot of what's being said. Yeah Ben's play was sub-par. But this offense is predicated on #26. Last season during the late season winning streak that carried through two rounds of the playoffs the offense ran through Bell. Right now Bell is just a guy. An ordinary back. Blame the blocking all you want but through the course of Bell's first 4 years you can find multiple examples every game where he took a poorly blocked play or just an ordinary hole and through his vision and anticipation made something spectacular happen. If Bell gets right the OL starts looking better. The passing game starts flowing and the points start being scored.

So me. I blame Bell. I'm not even sure his injury is properly healed. Or put it this way. Since he refused to come to camp or OTA's I wonder if his core strength is lacking? There's just no explosion from him right now. Again as I said before he's just another back. James Connor wouldn't do any worse. Isaac Redman redux. The Steelers season hinges of Bell being great. If he doesn't get back to that standard the Steelers are a 7-9 win team.

Oh yeah one other thing. I wonder how much different the game goes yesterday if Martavis Bryant catches the games opening pass? Easy TD if he comes down with it. Went through both of his hands. NFL wr's have to make that play. Anyway a quick start could have put a whole different perspective on all that ensued after.

As for Ben. He needs to play better no doubt. But it's my opinion that if Bell starts playing like a franchise back , the current 2nd and 8's become 2nd and 2's. A 3rd and 4 can be either a pass or a run... etc. If and when that happens Ben's game will round into shape.

If Bell doesn't round into form then we have to change our offensive approach and go more with the downfield passing game. Can Ben carry that out now? I don't know. But what I do know the way the plays are be called, the formations being employed, the personell being deployed, in other words the way our offense is structured right now. It can't succeed until we get more from Bell.
c

This team won't hit full stride until we have a consistent running game. Ben can longer shoulder the load, so I agree with you on that matter.

If the pass to MB is completed I think we run away with this one. That play was Ben's fault though. He didn't put enough air under it. Sure, Bryant could have caught it, but it would have been one hell of a catch. MB had his man beat for 6. If Ben throws a good ball, Bryant is catching it and running to the house. Ben threw a shit ball that even if Bryant caught it, he was likely falling to the ground after the catch.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I see what everyone is saying. And in some ways, I do agree. However, I also saw a lot of balls hitting hands or arms and bouncing off. Can't blame Ben for those. The O line has stunk so far this year. Can't really blame Ben for that, either. I think I'd argue it is a team wide problem and Ben is pretty much the mean of the team's performance.

Agreed. It's funny how this forum picks their "whipping boy" every week. This week apparently it's Ben.

- - - Updated - - -


I completely disagree with the new philosophy to not play the starters in the preseason. It is as if we are still watching pre season, and that is league wide. Oh and, BTW, back to the tackling drills.

I'm with you on this. The product being put on the field is subpar and it's a league wide problem.

[SteelMember]

Ben was throwing some hot garbage this game, but missing Gilbert and the loss of Foster early didn't help gain any comfort level. At on point, he had 6 or 7 incompletes in a row... and I don't recall many of those bouncing off hands and arms. I'd even say that most of the catches needed extra effort to even get a finger on. They were high or behind or leading too much. Then he changed from touch passing to throwing bullets on 5-10 yard crosses... he just didn't have all the throws today. And we needed most of them in this wacko game.

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed. It's funny how this forum picks their "whipping boy" every week. This week apparently it's Ben.

Everyone would just be saying Ben had another off day if Mitchell makes the easy interception and seals it...

[steel striker]

You can blame Ben but, did the oline open any holes for the running game? The bears at times only rushed three still got pressure from that. Outside of AB did anyone else get open?

[Hawkman]

You can blame Ben but, did the oline open any holes for the running game? The bears at times only rushed three still got pressure from that. Outside of AB did anyone else get open?

Bryant was, on the first play.:heh:

[Edman]

Body language said it all yesterday, and from the looks of it Ben just didn't want to be there.

The Offense had no sense of urgency or set out to win the game, even after the Defense made several big plays to get them the ball back. When the Defense gets you the ball back deep in the opponents territory, that's a 6. They settled for three and a tied game. They played like they just wanted to get out of there and move on.

Antonio Brown was the only one on Offense who played like he actually gave a shit yesterday.

Mike Tomlin critics have all kinds of ammunition for today, as the National Anthem fiasco proves once again, he doesn't get his teams ready to play.

[vasteeler]

Was it Ben's fault that a great pass that would have been 7 points at the beginning of the game went right through Bryant's hands?

[SteelMember]

Was it Ben's fault that a great pass that would have been 7 points at the beginning of the game went right through Bryant's hands?

You are not the only person to see it like that, but I saw an overthrown pass that he would have been lucky to get a finger on, even if he laid out... not right through his hands. Just my opinion. Now, Roger's punt reception... that was right through his hands. Sheesh

This game was a total stinker in all three phases. On to the Ravens.

[86WARD]

Was it Ben's fault that a great pass that would have been 7 points at the beginning of the game went right through Bryant's hands?

Looked like Ben threw I a bit far...just out of reach.

[Born2Steel]

You are not the only person to see it like that, but I saw an overthrown pass that he would have been lucky to get a finger on, even if he laid out... not right through his hands. Just my opinion. Now, Roger's punt reception... that was right through his hands. Sheesh

This game was a total stinker in all three phases. On to the Ravens.

Agreed. I did not expect a perfect season. A loss to the 0-2 Bears on the road is not that big in the grand scheme. Would love to have maybe 3 plays back for do-overs. Our guys fought back to tie when very little was going our way at all. Penalties and turnovers lose games. All there is to say.

[StillCurtains]

[QUOTE=SteelerFanInStl;606706]Agreed. It's funny how this forum picks their "whipping boy" every week. This week apparently it's Ben.


I stated in this post that there were other factors that played a hand in losing THIS particular game.
However, what this post is about is what I feel is the MAIN continuous reason why we struggle on the road
and lose to such teams and that is Ben.

Ben is the longest tenured player on this offense and yet the offense continues to struggle on the road to
produce points and against bad teams. If you want to threaten retirement after the AFCCG due to frustration
of the lack of strong play by your young teammates, then you need to make sure coming into this season that
your play meets the same standard that you set for them.

The defense wasn't great, but did enough to win to where OT should have never happened. We are talking 17 points
that was not a full earned 17 by the offense, to a Bears team that will not make the playoffs. This offense has too much talent for Ben to spearhead them so poorly.

This is a recurring problem year after year with this offense, not just yesterday and that is the point that I am making.
Who is the common factor on these struggling offenses in these situations year after year? It's Ben.
Ask yourself this honest question. Despite the all around issues that occured in this game, if you swap out Brady for Ben, do you believe that Brady would produce 17 points or 40 plus with this offense.

I believe you know the answer to that.

[DesertSteel]

Ask yourself this honest question. Despite the all around issues that occured in this game, if you swap out Brady for Ben, do you believe that Brady would produce 17 points or 40 plus with this offense.

I believe you know the answer to that.

Ben never has and never will be in Brady's category. TB is top 3 and BR is maybe top 20. Tomlin is not exactly a QB whisperer either...

[vasteeler]

Ben never has and never will be in Brady's category. TB is top 3 and BR is maybe top 20. Tomlin is not exactly a QB whisperer either...
Top 20?!?! that's sarcasm, right ? Now I'm not going to claim that Ben is better than Brady* but top 20 is an insults an a half ....top 20 smh

[SteelerFanInStl]

Agreed. It's funny how this forum picks their "whipping boy" every week. This week apparently it's Ben.


I stated in this post that there were other factors that played a hand in losing THIS particular game.
However, what this post is about is what I feel is the MAIN continuous reason why we struggle on the road
and lose to such teams and that is Ben.

Ben is the longest tenured player on this offense and yet the offense continues to struggle on the road to
produce points and against bad teams. If you want to threaten retirement after the AFCCG due to frustration
of the lack of strong play by your young teammates, then you need to make sure coming into this season that
your play meets the same standard that you set for them.

The defense wasn't great, but did enough to win to where OT should have never happened. We are talking 17 points
that was not a full earned 17 by the offense, to a Bears team that will not make the playoffs. This offense has too much talent for Ben to spearhead them so poorly.

This is a recurring problem year after year with this offense, not just yesterday and that is the point that I am making.
Who is the common factor on these struggling offenses in these situations year after year? It's Ben.
Ask yourself this honest question. Despite the all around issues that occured in this game, if you swap out Brady for Ben, do you believe that Brady would produce 17 points or 40 plus with this offense.

I believe you know the answer to that.

I never said that Ben is playing great, because he's obviously not, but to specifically point the finger at him is ridiculous. There's far more factors, and players, involved. The fact is that there isn't anyone on our offense that's playing well right now except for AB. He's the only one.

The defense couldn't tackle anyone all day so I'd say that no, they didn't do enough to win. Football is a team sport. You win together and you lose together. The whole team needs to pick it up.

- - - Updated - - -


Top 20?!?! that's sarcasm, right ? Now I'm not going to claim that Ben is better than Brady* but top 20 is an insults an a half ....top 20 smh

I think that he means top 20 all time. If not, then yea, I agree with you.

[vasteeler]

I never said that Ben is playing great, because he's obviously not, but to specifically point the finger at him is ridiculous. There's far more factors, and players, involved. The fact is that there isn't anyone on our offense that's playing well right now except for AB. He's the only one.

The defense couldn't tackle anyone all day so I'd say that no, they didn't do enough to win. Football is a team sport. You win together and you lose together. The whole team needs to pick it up.

- - - Updated - - -



I think that he means top 20 all time. If not, then yea, I agree with you.

O. K. That I can agree with

[DesertSteel]

Top 20?!?! that's sarcasm, right ? Now I'm not going to claim that Ben is better than Brady* but top 20 is an insults an a half ....top 20 smh
I thought it was pretty obvious I'm referring to all-time. <rolls_eyes>

[vasteeler]

I thought it was pretty obvious I'm referring to all-time. <rolls_eyes>

O. K.... No need for eye rolling