Steelers will use 4-receiver set more often, Ben Roethlisberger says

[polamalubeast]

One offensive look the Steelers flashed throughout the season opener Sunday afternoon in Cleveland featured four wide receivers and nobody besides quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the backfield.

It hardly resembled the formations the Steelers used in the second half of 2016 when they won seven games in a row to close out the season and two more in the playoffs.

In addition to starting receivers Antonio Brown and Martavis Bryant, and slot receiver Eli Rogers, the formation put rookie JuJu Smith-Schuster on the field.

It's something fans should get accustomed to seeing.

“We've got a lot of guys we're able to get on the field,” Roethlisberger said Wednesday morning. “We want to be able to get JuJu on the field, and that's what that does. It's an opportunity to get him on the field and create even more of a mismatch problem.

“I think you'll see more of it because it was very good to us.”

Roethlisberger's last sentence is up for debate considering the offense scored just two touchdowns and totaled 290 yards in the 21-18 victory at FirstEnergy Stadium.


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http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/12730781-74/steelers-will-use-4-receiver-set-more-often-ben-roethlisberger-says

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[Born2Steel]

Empty backfield plays? But they never work.

[SteelMayhem72]

I dont like the idea of giving up thats its a pass before the snap...how bout show the potential to run as well with more play action. This is gonna get Ben hurt in my opinion...who is gonna pick up the extra blitzers with no running back in there???

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[polamalubeast]

I dont like the idea of giving up thats its a pass before the snap...how bout show the potential to run as well with more play action. This is gonna get Ben hurt in my opinion...who is gonna pick up the extra blitzers with no running back in there???

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I do not like that too, but I do not think it's going to put Roethlisberger at risk, since it's always a quick pass when they're in the empty backfield.

[Born2Steel]

9 plays total. Average 12 yards per play. 108 yards passing on those 9 plays. Now look at Ben's total passing yards. 263 yards on 24 passes. That's 15 for 155 play action/with RB, if my math is correct. Not saying you run empty backfield every down, but the numbers prove it has been effective. Well, 9 times it was effective.

[polamalubeast]

9 plays total. Average 12 yards per play. 108 yards passing on those 9 plays. Now look at Ben's total passing yards. 263 yards on 24 passes. That's 15 for 155 play action/with RB, if my math is correct. Not saying you run empty backfield every down, but the numbers prove it has been effective. Well, 9 times it was effective.


In fact, Roethlisberger attempted 36 passes, so 27 of his attempts were with a RB, but I may be wrong, but I think Antonio Brown's 50 yard play at the end of the first half was in the empty backfield , so that's why the average was high

Edit:I am right


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7DHaiUAx3s

[AtlantaDan]

Could be strategery from Ben to force Vikings and other teams to prepare for it

Ben should also say Steelers planning to run a lot of wildcat with direct snaps to Bell

[Born2Steel]

In fact, Roethlisberger attempted 36 passes, so 27 of his attempts were with a RB, but I may be wrong, but I think Antonio Brown's 50 yard play at the end of the first half was in the empty backfield , so that's why the average was high

Edit:I am right


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7DHaiUAx3s

Maybe so, but not all of the play action passes went exactly 10 yards either. That point can be used for OR against the topic.

[SteelerFanInStl]

In fact, Roethlisberger attempted 36 passes, so 27 of his attempts were with a RB, but I may be wrong, but I think Antonio Brown's 50 yard play at the end of the first half was in the empty backfield , so that's why the average was high

Edit:I am right

Exactly. One play skewed the average.

[86WARD]

so basically it's not that effective and the offense as a whole was kinda a shitshow.

[SteelMayhem72]

Its all well and good till they are all covered and ben has to hold the ball longer

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[Born2Steel]

Not skewed to the point though. Even take away that 50 leaves 58 yards on 8 plays. Still over 7 yards per play which is productive. PRODUCTIVE. However, one of those plays went for 50 yards. That makes an even bigger case for using the empty backfield formation here and there. It worked. It produced positive gains.

[polamalubeast]

Not skewed to the point though. Even take away that 50 leaves 58 yards on 8 plays. Still over 7 yards per play which is productive. PRODUCTIVE. However, one of those plays went for 50 yards. That makes an even bigger case for using the empty backfield formation here and there. It worked. It produced positive gains.

The problem it's too predictable...It's always a quick throw and when this is the empty backfield on the 3rd down and 10 or something like that, very rare the steelers will have a first down on this formation.

[Mojouw]

The problem it's too predictable...It's always a quick throw and when this is the empty backfield on the 3rd down and 10 or something like that, very rare the steelers will have a first down on this formation.

Got any data at all to back that up? Why leave a back in on third and 10? That can not be a more obvious passing down regardless of formation. Get your best downfield playmakers on the field.

[polamalubeast]

Got any data at all to back that up? Why leave a back in on third and 10? That can not be a more obvious passing down regardless of formation. Get your best downfield playmakers on the field.

This is to have a RB to protect the QB if the opposing defense makes a blitz, so even if the opponent makes a blitz Ben can hold the ball longer until a WR is open for a first down.

If you are in the empty backfield and the opponent makes a blitz, it's obvious that it's a quick short throw (probably to the TE) and it will not be a first down.

Even when it's not a blitz, Ben always makes a quick short throw on the 3rd down and 10 in the empty backfield which very rarely gives us a first down in this situation.

[Born2Steel]

But the entire point is that the empty backfield plays WERE productive to the tune of 12 yards per play. One play even went for 50 yards. Why would you stop doing something that is working when you use it?

[Mojouw]

This is to have a RB to protect the QB if the opposing defense makes a blitz, so even if the opponent makes a blitz Ben can hold the ball longer until a WR is open for a first down.

If you are in the empty backfield and the opponent makes a blitz, it's obvious that it's a quick short throw (probably to the TE) and it will not be a first down.

Even when it's not a blitz, Ben always makes a quick short throw on the 3rd down and 10 in the empty backfield which very rarely gives us a first down in this situation.

Lots of disagreement with those statements - http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/09/steelers-film-room-power-of-empty-sets/

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room/2013/11/21/5121128/steelers-film-no-huddle-offense-GIFs-detroit-lions-nfl-week-11

[polamalubeast]

You can use this sometimes, but it's very rare you can make a big play with this formation and it's a little too much dink and dunk to my taste!

But if they use this formation a lot, I hope it will work but in the last two years (2015 and 2016) Roethlisberger had below 7 yards per pass attempts(and less than 10 yards per completion) with 4 WR or more on the field.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/5536/year/2015

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/5536/year/2016

[Mojouw]

You can use this sometimes, but it's very rare you can make a big play with this formation and it's a little too much dink and dunk to my taste!

But if they use this formation a lot, I hope it will work but in the last two years (2015 and 2016) Roethlisberger had below 7 yards per pass attempts(and less than 10 yards per completion) with 4 WR or more on the field.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/5536/year/2015

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/5536/year/2016

Sure, you won't often get a chance to load up and throw it long out of this formation, but Ben R also had a far higher completion percentage and his second highest # of touchdowns out of 4+ wideout sets.

Additionally, the defense has to declare its coverages when it gets this spread out. Why do you think teams did it to Lebeau so much? Takes the mystery out of who is rushing!

[polamalubeast]

Sure, you won't often get a chance to load up and throw it long out of this formation, but Ben R also had a far higher completion percentage and his second highest # of touchdowns out of 4+ wideout sets.

Additionally, the defense has to declare its coverages when it gets this spread out. Why do you think teams did it to Lebeau so much? Takes the mystery out of who is rushing!

It can be good formation for the 3rd down and 3-5 yards, but not for the 3rd down and 10 or longer since Roethlisberger has not 10 yards per completion who was my point on the post No 13.

[teegre]

If BB is for it, then so am I.

[ALLD]

Its all well and good till they are all covered and ben has to hold the ball longer

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Won't happen, AB is always open.

[st33lersguy]

I don't like this, how about not telegraphing when you will throw the ball so often? The offense will then be predictable and you won't have a RB to stay in pass protection

[Mojouw]

Why do you need a RB in pass protection? Where is the 6th rusher coming from?

Say you send 5 WRs out or 4 + a TE out. That is 5 in coverage. Leaving 6 guys to rush. Now since the Ryan boys don't have jobs currently, I'm not certain which defensive coordinator is out there that is loco enough to run cover 0 against the 4 or 5 wide set that the Steelers could put out there. So they are likely going to pull at least one high safety, maybe 2. So now you are down to rushing somewhere between 3 and 5 guys. That is the exact same # of offensive linemen or less.

So where is this scary unblocked guy coming from? I mean clearly you can't use this as the base formation. Also there will be times that some team says "screw it" and sends 5 or 6 guys against this front in an attempt to get the blitz home before the Qb identifies the open guy. But some of the reasons against using this as a facet of the offense are starting to get a bit fuzzy.

[polamalubeast]

It's not just because of the blitz, it's because in the 3rd down and long, the QB needs to hold the ball longer sometimes to get a first down and when you hold the ball longer, the protection need to be good, so with 6 players to protect the QB, the QB can hold the ball longer.

When you are in the empty backfield, the QB has almost no choice to throw the ball short and quickly and this is for this reason why Ben has less that 10 yards per completion with 4 WR or more in the last 2 years.

[43Hitman]

Umm we have the best or second best O-line in the league. I think they can handle the protection.

[polamalubeast]

Umm we have the best or second best O-line in the league. I think they can handle the protection.


The problem is that Haley does not trust his o-line, that's why Haley started the game with 3-4 screens in a row!

[43Hitman]

The problem is that Haley does not trust his o-line, that's why Haley started the game with 3-4 screens in a row!
No, he started the game with 3-4 screens because he had no idea what Greg Williams was going to do with his safety 25 yards deep.

[Psycho Ward 86]

im still going to be a strong proponent of avoiding coming out of the huddle straight away in 4 receiver sets with an empty backfield. I still think we should frequently motion into 4-5 wide using Bell because his utility as an all-around weapons needs to be utilized. The consensus seems to be that this is the best receiver group that Ben has ever had. Hell, maybe that the steelers ever had. But Bell is a part of that. Bell makes a strong argument as the 2nd best receiver on this team. And yes Bryant, I see you just fine. I think its fine to give Rogers/Schuster a few less snaps as a result

[Born2Steel]

im still going to be a strong proponent of avoiding coming out of the huddle straight away in 4 receiver sets with an empty backfield. I still think we should frequently motion into 4-5 wide using Bell because his utility as an all-around weapons needs to be utilized. The consensus seems to be that this is the best receiver group that Ben has ever had. Hell, maybe that the steelers ever had. But Bell is a part of that. Bell makes a strong argument as the 2nd best receiver on this team. And yes Bryant, I see you just fine. I think its fine to give Rogers/Schuster a few less snaps as a result

This. Spread formations and motions make defenses tell. A single back formation to a 4/5 wide spread does just that as well. Yes, the play from Haley is already called, but allows Ben to audible to the better play. This is also the best way to run a hurry up/no huddle offense.

[Psycho Ward 86]

This. Spread formations and motions make defenses tell. A single back formation to a 4/5 wide spread does just that as well. Yes, the play from Haley is already called, but allows Ben to audible to the better play. This is also the best way to run a hurry up/no huddle offense.

Bingo. Not to mention the fact that Bell has lined up inside and outside for us at receiver. Gives a multitude of headaches for opposing defenses. Put Eli Rogers and Smith-Schuster out there (sorry boys, I still love you both), players know they're getting slot receivers

[polamalubeast]

And if the steelers are to use this formation, please put Bell on the field instead of Jesse James!

[polamalubeast]

Sunday’s Game Likely To Include Bell In 4-Receiver Sets

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/09/sundays-game-likely-include-bell-4-receiver-sets/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SteelersDepotBlog+%28Steelers +Depot%29

I hope

[polamalubeast]

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[Psycho Ward 86]

909930426201808896

I dig it. Shows that the steelers are willing to adjust dramatically from week to week depending on the opponent. The vikings have tremendous talent AND depth at cornerback (Xavier Rhodes, Trae Waynes, Terrence Newman, Tramaine Brock, Mackensie Alexander was an early 2nd round pick last season). Makes sense. Rhodes didnt even need help to give AB a relatively quiet day, and forced him to work some miracles to earn catches (I think that was one of AB's finest toe-dragging sideline catches yet and thats saying a lot)