Claims of a Steelers penalty epidemic under Mike Tomlin are lazy and false

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers went 144 yards in reverse during their opening-day victory Sunday against the Browns, which is half as far as they went in the proper direction. That's the sort of activity that is going to be noticed with any professional football team, but particularly one as closely observed as Pittsburgh.

Go ahead, look up “Mike Tomlin" and "undisciplined" on Twitter. We'll wait.



It's kinda horrifying, but not surprising.

Tomlin himself was displeased enough to make this one of the first items he mentioned in his weekly press conference Tuesday. "We were highly penalized, and when you're highly penalized on offense it kills drives, it kills balance, it reduces the number of snaps," he said. "Whatever you want to talk about, the reality is when you're penalized like we were, you're going to lose your balance, it's going to put you behind the chains."




So, yes, Tomlin knows there were too many penalties and wants there to be fewer. It's worth noting that the five most penalized teams in the season's first weekend all won their games — including most-penalized Kansas City on the road at Super Bowl-champion New England — but Tomlin promises improvement in this area.

The notion that this is a condition somehow endemic to the Steelers under Tomlin's watch, however, is ragingly false.

In 10 full seasons as a head coach, Tomlin has never had a team rank in the top five in penalties committed. Not once. His 2016 team ranked eighth, the poorest showing of any of his teams. On average, his teams ranked 20th. He's had more teams rank in the bottom 10 in penalties (five) than the top 10 (one).

So why does this come up so persistently?

Baltimore's John Harbaugh has had six teams in nine seasons rank seventh or higher in penalties committed. Seattle's Pete Carroll has coached six consecutive teams ranked in the top 10 in penalties, including two that led the league. One will occasionally find their teams placed in the "undisciplined" aisle by commenters, but not nearly so often as Tomlin's Steelers.



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http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/pittsburgh-steelers-penalties-mike-tomlin-undisciplined-ben-roethlisberger/keagkw2q5qa21gsq06lhq5vpw

[Hawkman]

Is "ragingly" a real word??:chuckle:

[ALLD]

Never live within your fears.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Never believe anything on Twitter.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Am I the only one who immediately sees a fatal flaw to these misleading rankings? These so called penalty rankings are accounting for penalties committed, not the magnitude of penalties or types of penalties committed.


If Team A is ranked 10th in most penalties committed, but it's a gifted passing team with a huge chunk of the penalties being false starts or offsides, theres a good chance that its less self-inflictive damage than say, Team B who is ranked 15th in penalties committed, but can only run the ball and has mostly personal fouls and pass interferences that flip the field completely. A child could have pointed out the misleading statistic in this article

[Steeltreal]

Enjoy these plays while Gay, Harrison, and Mitchell are around. Might be the last Hard Hitting Steelers we will ever see.

[polamalubeast]

Am I the only one who immediately sees a fatal flaw to these misleading rankings? These so called penalty rankings are accounting for penalties committed, not the magnitude of penalties or types of penalties committed.


If Team A is ranked 10th in most penalties committed, but it's a gifted passing team with a huge chunk of the penalties being false starts or offsides, theres a good chance that its less self-inflictive damage than say, Team B who is ranked 15th in penalties committed, but can only run the ball and has mostly personal fouls and pass interferences that flip the field completely. A child could have pointed out the misleading statistic in this article

Since 2013, the steelers have always been in the top 10 in personnel foul.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/27654-Head-hunting-Steelers-will-pay-a-price

Or course some games are worse than others, like the last game and the game against Tampa Bay in 2014

[teegre]

Am I the only one who immediately sees a fatal flaw to these misleading rankings? These so called penalty rankings are accounting for penalties committed, not the magnitude of penalties or types of penalties committed.


If Team A is ranked 10th in most penalties committed, but it's a gifted passing team with a huge chunk of the penalties being false starts or offsides, theres a good chance that its less self-inflictive damage than say, Team B who is ranked 15th in penalties committed, but can only run the ball and has mostly personal fouls and pass interferences that flip the field completely. A child could have pointed out the misleading statistic in this article

Lies, damn lies, and stats.
--Mark Twain

[Steelermania]

Lies, damn lies, and stats.
--Mark Twain
Lies, Dammed Lies, and statistics.
Not Mark Twain. Twain attributed it to Disraeli, but the actual origin of the quote is unknown.

[teegre]

Lies, Dammed Lies, and statistics.
Not Mark Twain. Twain attributed it to Disraeli, but the actual origin of the quote is unknown.

True :hatsoff:

[FrancoLambert]

Lies, Dammed Lies, and statistics.
Not Mark Twain. Twain attributed it to Disraeli, but the actual origin of the quote is unknown.

I remember Disraeli. Didn't he release the album Disraeli Gears? :rolleyes:

[steelreserve]

I don't think the Steelers are suffering from a penalty epidemic. I think the whole league is suffering from a rash of stupid, random penalties that shouldn't be called. It's almost like they go out of their way to make sure they're called at the most prominent and outrageous times to make sure we all see what they're doing for "player safety." Welcome to Lawyerball.

[Mojouw]

I don't think the Steelers are suffering from a penalty epidemic. I think the whole league is suffering from a rash of stupid, random penalties that shouldn't be called. It's almost like they go out of their way to make sure they're called at the most prominent and outrageous times to make sure we all see what they're doing for "player safety." Welcome to Lawyerball.

Nothing to do with lawyers. Everything to do with PR. The entire NFL is an exercise in PR that accidentally has a competitive sport thrown into it. IF the league calls the game the way the are now, they can CLAIM that it is safe. That keeps the $$$ rolling in and they can duck another news cycle of how much of a negative toll football really takes on human bodies. That allows the NCAA and youth levels to keep playing football as well.

Look I love watching, reading, thinking, and following NFL football. I'm 38. I do not think it will last my lifetime. At least not in its current form. I feel we will see a contracted league for far less $$ relegated to the same corner of the sporting world we all place boxing in now.

[Born2Steel]

It would not bother me to see multiple organizations in football, college and pro. Pro football has priced itself out of my reach. I can't justify the cost to attend a live game. College football is slanted to the 'haves' so steeply, there's little chance for a 'have not' school to catch up and make an even playing field. Competition is good at all levels. Even at the league level.

[steelreserve]

Nothing to do with lawyers. Everything to do with PR. The entire NFL is an exercise in PR that accidentally has a competitive sport thrown into it. IF the league calls the game the way the are now, they can CLAIM that it is safe. That keeps the $$$ rolling in and they can duck another news cycle of how much of a negative toll football really takes on human bodies. That allows the NCAA and youth levels to keep playing football as well.


Same idea, really. The whole thing is a front they're putting on for PR reasons. Whether they're doing it to appease the media, or so they can have something to point to in the event of another lawsuit - "look, we're taking steps to make things safer!" - it doesn't matter. It's probably some of both, but the result is the same: Shitty penalties, watered-down football. But at least they can claim they're trying, even though anyone with even a highish two-digit IQ knows that the game of football fundamentally carries risks (including bonking heads, omg!) unless you change the overall nature of the game into something it isn't.



Look I love watching, reading, thinking, and following NFL football. I'm 38. I do not think it will last my lifetime. At least not in its current form. I feel we will see a contracted league for far less $$ relegated to the same corner of the sporting world we all place boxing in now.


The boxing comparison is right on. I don't know how much the league can contract - too few teams or two few games kind of messes with the notion of what constitutes a "season" - but I can definitely see it dropping a tier with less money, smaller audience, and no longer the destination sport for all the best athletes.

Seems like the last one might be in the works already, actually. Partly because people choose to play a different sport in grade school/high school because of the risks, and partly because people are realizing that with short careers and 53 players on a team, only a handful of big-time stars actually make enough money to be set for life. Even a shitty baseball or basketball player (or an international soccer player, for that matter) makes way more than your average NFL player. Plus even if you can't hack it in the NBA or the Premier League, you can make a decent living playing somewhere overseas, whereas in football you've either got the NFL or a couple of poverty leagues.

Basically, once the appeal goes out of the game for the players (which is happening), you're eventually left with the same reduced talent pool and audience that you find in a sport like boxing, which is why that prediction is absolutely right.

[Mojouw]

Same idea, really. The whole thing is a front they're putting on for PR reasons. Whether they're doing it to appease the media, or so they can have something to point to in the event of another lawsuit - "look, we're taking steps to make things safer!" - it doesn't matter. It's probably some of both, but the result is the same: Shitty penalties, watered-down football. But at least they can claim they're trying, even though anyone with even a highish two-digit IQ knows that the game of football fundamentally carries risks (including bonking heads, omg!) unless you change the overall nature of the game into something it isn't.





The boxing comparison is right on. I don't know how much the league can contract - too few teams or two few games kind of messes with the notion of what constitutes a "season" - but I can definitely see it dropping a tier with less money, smaller audience, and no longer the destination sport for all the best athletes.

Seems like the last one might be in the works already, actually. Partly because people choose to play a different sport in grade school/high school because of the risks, and partly because people are realizing that with short careers and 53 players on a team, only a handful of big-time stars actually make enough money to be set for life. Even a shitty baseball or basketball player (or an international soccer player, for that matter) makes way more than your average NFL player. Plus even if you can't hack it in the NBA or the Premier League, you can make a decent living playing somewhere overseas, whereas in football you've either got the NFL or a couple of poverty leagues.

Basically, once the appeal goes out of the game for the players (which is happening), you're eventually left with the same reduced talent pool and audience that you find in a sport like boxing, which is why that prediction is absolutely right.

Couldn't agree more. It is all about a risk to reward ratio for the players. Once the risk becomes far greater than reward - they're going to stop rolling the dice. I would argue the risk already does outweigh the reward, it is just that the message has yet to filter down to everyone.

If there was a viable pro soccer league in the states that allowed guys to make Premier league coin, the NFL would be dead in a generation. Guaranteed cash and far less risk of permanent bodily injury?

[86WARD]

One of the main reasons Tomlin gets shit for this is because the penalties seem to be more noticeable. It appears that they come on big gains, they come on kickoffs, they come on 3rd and 9s on an incomplete pass to extend a drive. Is this an accurate statement? I have no idea...just an observation...or maybe just living in the moment. Would be interesting to see the how "critical" penalties under Tomlin are compared to those under Cowher.