Heroes/Goats @ Browns

[Edman]

Steelers win 21-18.

Heroes:

Ben, Brown, T.J Watt, Defense.

Goats:

Goddawful officials in favor of Cleveland.

Team wasn't at their best, but showed a lot of mettle today against a team with a lot to prove, and fighting off the refs. Offense was off, but this was the first time in years the B's played together, so they'll be alright.

[pepsyman1]

Not happy with the pass coverage most of the game. Scheme looked pretty much the same. (I have no problem with a zone coverage, if we're not playing those 8 yard cushions and OCCASIONALLY, come up and bump the receivers at the line to disrupt timing). Bell sitting out of camp just pissed me off even more today seeing him being ineffective for most of the game.

AB is the man. All athletes are overpaid, but AB makes you believe he's worth whatever he can get.

[polamalubeast]

The offense was so rusting and the penalties and Todd Haley (first half) did not help.

Watt on defense and Antonio Brown on offense was our best players.

[43Hitman]

Offense: AB

Defense: Watt

[Mojouw]

The defense is going to be really good. Rookie QB...blah....blah...blah...those guys in Cleveland get paid too.

57 yards rushing and 2.3 yard per rush. 3-12 on third down. 7 sacks and only one by a non front 7 player.

As long as Dupree and Tuitt aren't really hurt bad -- I'm absolutely giddy.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Offense: AB. Ignited our offense for the first time in the game with his 50 yard scamper. Saved our asses from giving the browns a last ditch chance at tying/winning the game with that nifty reception in triple coverage in the end.

Defense: Watt/Shazier. Shazier is self explanatory, looking exactly as he should when healthy. Watt's 2 sacks may have been hustle sacks, but he showed veteran savvy when he set the edge and used his hands nicely. His interception may have been a dumb pass in the middle of nowhere but it was a pretty difficult snag. (Let us Sconnies have our moment ok? :lol: On Wisconsin!!!). He made his 1st start against an All-Pro and acquitted himself well. Couldnt have hoped for a better start to his career

[st33lersguy]

Heroes: AB, Watt, and Matakevich for the blocked punt. We don't win this game without the blocked punt or AB and Watt

Goats: Haley, the offensive playcalling (especially early on) was so unbelievably atrocious (enough of the bubble screen already, it doesn't work), Le'Veon who wasn't ready to play until about 8 minutes left in the game, the oline was bad, Juju with 2 holding penalties (including one that prevented Pittsburgh from running out the clock and brought the Steelers time), and pass coverage let a receiving corp without one good pass catcher get open too many times. Too many holding penalties, too many missed tackles.

Also the refs were beyond hideous this game and heavily slanted in favor of Cleveland. I expected them to overturn that AB catch

[tube517]

TJ already has 1/3 of the career sacks of Jarvis Jones.

Still a bust because it was vs the Stains. :chuckle:

Honorable mention to ChickFilA and The Outlaw.


AB is all world and we knew that already

[FrancoLambert]

Heroes: T.J. Watt - Tomlin was right, this kid's a starter on merit, showed a motor, athleticism, and smarts
AB - no explanation necessary
Defense - overall solid, some big plays, CB's played great (loved typing that)

Goats: too many penalties but a few were unjustified, a high hard hit is going to get you a flag.... even a minute after the play is over....WTF was that?

Ben was rusty as expected. LeVeon looks behind. Chickillo played well getting more snaps than usual.

Typically, the Steelers made it more dramatic than it had to be.

A W, 1-0, we're on to the Vikings for our home opener.

[RunNGun]

Not happy with the pass coverage most of the game. Scheme looked pretty much the same. (I have no problem with a zone coverage, if we're not playing those 8 yard cushions and OCCASIONALLY, come up and bump the receivers at the line to disrupt timing). Bell sitting out of camp just pissed me off even more today seeing him being ineffective for most of the game.

AB is the man. All athletes are overpaid, but AB makes you believe he's worth whatever he can get.

Idk what game you were watching, but it was nowhere near the same scheme. A lot of man to man defense was ran today. A lot more than I can recall for a few years. I will be anxious to see the numbers on man 2 man vs playing zone.

[Drazo85]

Heroes: AB-the real 17 mil man
Front seven-devoured pricey browns OL
Goats: Ju-Ju for holding penalties
Bell- sloppy and rusty

[SteelerFanInStl]

Heroes: AB, Watt, Outlaw, Chickillo

Goats: Officials. Too many questionable flags on us and nothing on the Clowns. OL. They continued their poor play from the preseason.

[Hawkman]

Honorable mention goes out to ST for the blocked punt/TD. Without that, we may not win this game.

[Born2Steel]

Heroes: AB 180 yard game. JJ 2 TD receptions. TJ 2 sacks and an INT. Tyler and Anthony punt block and TD recovery.

Goats: Oline got handled. Stupid penalties. Injuries.

[Craic]

Heroes: AB, Special Teams coach, Shazier.


Honorable Mention: Watt. His two sacks look better on a stat sheet than they were in the game: one being a coverage sack and the other clean up. However, he gets a lot of credit for keeping his engine going on both plays and finally getting to the QB. Unfortunately, he didn't create opportunities for sacks, which is what I'm waiting to see (the most clear-cut example of creating an opportunity was Hargrave's sack when he drove the center straight back, then peeled off him and sacked the QB). However, his INT was a thing of beauty and well played.


Goats: Bell. He was slow and completely lacked suddeness and glide. :chuckle: Offensive play calling, especially coming out of the gate. I don't think I saw a ball thrown downfield that entire first drive, maybe first and second.

Incomplete: defensive play-calling. I'm not so worried about coming out with a lot of zone for this game. We have a brand new CB whose never played a down in a Steelers uniform on the field along with a safety who barely saw any play time this training camp and preseason, not to mention a rookie LB who would be tasked with a TE or RB in man coverage. However, we had better start the move to man coverage by our fourth game, or it's going to get ugly.

[RunNGun]

The Good

AB deserves the game ball. He's always clutch and showed today why he is the best WR in football.

Watt played outstanding today. 2 sacks and the way he baited Kizer on that interception was impressive.

Chickallo was bringing the heat today as well. Shazier was flying around making plays.

Haden, Hilton, and Gay all played well, but Burns stood out to me the most in the secondary. He was never really tested the whole game. You didn't see much of him, which is great if you're a CB.

The Bad

Ben never really looked comfortable the whole game. He rushed some throws and made some inaccurate throws as well. It also seemed as if he has loss some arm strength. The timing is not there yet with Bryant and Bell...Ben gets a pass today.

The Oline/Bell never really gelled today. They had a few nice plays called back on some questionable calls. Other than those negated plays, they didn't really open anything up for Bell or Conner. Bell looks out of shape and a little heavy.

Overall, I'm optimistic about this game. If it weren't for the penalties, this game could have been blown wide open. I like how they got Conner in on 3 or 4 possessions. Will go a long way in keeping Bell healthy. Many of us wanted to see how the defense performed, and I think they met the standard. They played fast and physical. Granted, it was against a rookie QB, arguably, on the worst team in the league, but they looked improved.

I look for the offense to be in sync next game and hopefully we can see this team in full stride on both sides of the ball next week.

[86WARD]

Heroes - Offense: Jesse James. Defense: TJ Watt & Chik Fil A
Goats - Offense: Play Calling and O-Line. Terrible. Defense: Pass coverage.

Overall: too many penalties.

[RunNGun]

Incomplete: defensive play-calling. I'm not so worried about coming out with a lot of zone for this game. We have a brand new CB whose never played a down in a Steelers uniform on the field along with a safety who barely saw any play time this training camp and preseason, not to mention a rookie LB who would be tasked with a TE or RB in man coverage. However, we had better start the move to man coverage by our fourth game, or it's going to get ugly.[/QUOTE]

Again, what game were you watching? We played more man in that game than we did in any game last year. You can't play man to man every down. Teams will kill you on crossing plays. You want to be able to disguise what you're doing and they did a pretty good job of that today.

[steelreserve]

Brown was the entire offense today. Watt was amazing on D.

Bell is a guy who depends on game sense and quick reactions, but had neither of those today. Gee, I wonder if sitting out all preseason so this was his FIRST LIVE ACTION in a game or practice could have anything to do with slower game sense and reactions. Idiot.

[Steeldude]

Heroes: AB 180 yard game. JJ 2 TD receptions. TJ 2 sacks and an INT. Tyler and Anthony punt block and TD recovery.

Goats: Oline got handled. Stupid penalties. Injuries.

Matakevich blocked the punt. FYI : )

[Born2Steel]

Matakevich blocked the punt. FYI : )

What did i say? Tyler(Matakevich) and Anthony(Chickillo) punt block and TD recovery.

[Iron Steeler]

Heroes: TJ Watt... love this guy so far. Yeh can say they were just hustle sacks . But he was always around the ball and putting pressure on the ball carrier (qb or rb)

Secondary: played solid even with some extremely questionable penalties being called.

ANTONIO BROWN- thank god we have him. or we would be 0-1 right now to start the season and extreme finger pointing would occur

GOATS:
Bell- this is what Ben means about football shape. He looked rusty. Looked very easy to tackle and went down after the first hit.

Haley- I just hate his play calling. specifially starting the 3rd quarter. 3 and out when a higher caliber team would put the brownies away!

[RunNGun]

Heroes - Offense: Jesse James. Defense: TJ Watt & Chik Fil A
Goats - Offense: Play Calling and O-Line. Terrible. Defense: Pass coverage.

Overall: too many penalties.

The pass d was great. The defense was on the field for much of this game. They stuck in there and earned the team a win today, no thanks to the offense.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Heroes: AB, Watt, Outlaw, Chickillo

Goats: Officials. Too many questionable flags on us and nothing on the Clowns. OL. They continued their poor play from the preseason. My thoughts and agree.

[pepsyman1]

Idk what game you were watching, but it was nowhere near the same scheme. A lot of man to man defense was ran today. A lot more than I can recall for a few years. I will be anxious to see the numbers on man 2 man vs playing zone.

I just watched a rookie complete 66% of his passes in his first NFL game, most of them to receivers that had no defenders within 3 yards. If that's our man coverage, then our concept of man coverage needs some work.

[st33lersguy]

Haley- I just hate his play calling. specifially starting the 3rd quarter. 3 and out when a higher caliber team would put the brownies away!

And running bubbles screens the first 4 plays of the game

[Craic]

Heroes: TJ Watt... love this guy so far. Yeh can say they were just hustle sacks . But he was always around the ball and putting pressure on the ball carrier (qb or rb)

No argument with that, either. As I've said repeatedly, my two biggest concerns with him was speed and strength. He had a motor that wouldn't stop and a lot of football intelligence, but I was worried about OTs swallowing him up. In the preseason and today's game, he's shown he has the speed. I'm just waiting on the strength to show up. However, I fully realize that'll probably take a couple of years as he finishes growing into his frame.

[Mojouw]

And running bubbles screens the first 4 plays of the game

I'm not trying to call you out specifically, but you posted it -- so you get the quote.

The Browns were playing their safeties 15-25 yards off the line of scrimmage. That is simply unheard of. In response, Haley and Ben tried a lot of quick hitting underneath stuff and screens. IF they would've been able to execute those plays better, then the Browns would have most likely responded by bringing their safeties up. Then what happens? Those deep throws everyone was calling for.

It is like a boxer spending the early rounds throwing jabs and shots to the body. Then when the guy starts dropping his hands, you move in for the big knockout shot.

It didn't work that way today, but it doesn't mean it wasn't the right call. Everything happens in a context, nothing is in a vacuum. Comments and internet shouting that do not appear to take this into account just absolutely drives me up a wall. Like nails on a chalkboard.

So again, apologies and not trying to lay any one person out -- just wanted to rant!

[Craic]

I just watched a rookie complete 66% of his passes in his first NFL game, most of them to receivers that had no defenders within 3 yards. If that's our man coverage, then our concept of man coverage needs some work.

Exactly. I saw several plays where defenders followed WRs through an area, then let them go. If that's our man coverage, we're in serious trouble. Now, I'll fully admit there might have been a couple times when it was an over-under coverage miscue, but not enough times to blame everything on.

That said, our coverage was a lot better than this time last year.

[RunNGun]

I just watched a rookie complete 66% of his passes in his first NFL game, most of them to receivers that had no defenders within 3 yards. If that's our man coverage, then our concept of man coverage needs some work.

I couldn't care less about his completion percentage. A lot of those throws were checkdowns. The secondary kept everything in front of them for the most part, and even forced a few coverage sacks. That's called doing their jobs. The man to man defense is still in transition, so it will probably take some time, but it's never going to be perfect. The defense, including the secondary, gets all the respect today. They were on the field for the majority of this game and stuck it out to give us the win.

[Steeldude]

What did i say? Tyler(Matakevich) and Anthony(Chickillo) punt block and TD recovery.

Sorry, on phone and it's having trouble loading. You would think Verizon would have a better signal.

[Born2Steel]

Sorry, on phone and it's having trouble loading. You would think Verizon would have a better signal.

I had to double check that I got first names right on that one.

[Craic]

I'm not trying to call you out specifically, but you posted it -- so you get the quote.

The Browns were playing their safeties 15-25 yards off the line of scrimmage. That is simply unheard of. In response, Haley and Ben tried a lot of quick hitting underneath stuff and screens. IF they would've been able to execute those plays better, then the Browns would have most likely responded by bringing their safeties up. Then what happens? Those deep throws everyone was calling for.

It is like a boxer spending the early rounds throwing jabs and shots to the body. Then when the guy starts dropping his hands, you move in for the big knockout shot.

It didn't work that way today, but it doesn't mean it wasn't the right call. Everything happens in a context, nothing is in a vacuum. Comments and internet shouting that do not appear to take this into account just absolutely drives me up a wall. Like nails on a chalkboard.

So again, apologies and not trying to lay any one person out -- just wanted to rant!

I get what you're saying. However, it'd seem to me that such a defensive line up might also call for inside slants and a three step drop, or lining up in trips and sending the inside guy into the flat, or even running a wheel with the RB starting in a flanker position. My frustration wasn't as much the four short throws in a row. It was the four screen passes in a row to receivers. I'll even add to that the tipping of the hand on run plays when we'd come out with one receiver. I thought a couple of times we had an excellent opportunity to run a play-action and hit Jesse James five-seven yards downfield.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I get what you're saying. However, it'd seem to me that such a defensive line up might also call for inside slants and a three step drop, or lining up in trips and sending the inside guy into the flat, or even running a wheel with the RB starting in a flanker position. My frustration wasn't as much the four short throws in a row. It was the four screen passes in a row to receivers. I'll even add to that the tipping of the hand on run plays when we'd come out with one receiver. I thought a couple of times we had an excellent opportunity to run a play-action and hit Jesse James five-seven yards downfield.

Exactly. I get so tired of the screen passes. There are so many other (better?) ways that you can run a quick hitter.

[Iron Steeler]

No argument with that, either. As I've said repeatedly, my two biggest concerns with him was speed and strength. He had a motor that wouldn't stop and a lot of football intelligence, but I was worried about OTs swallowing him up. In the preseason and today's game, he's shown he has the speed. I'm just waiting on the strength to show up. However, I fully realize that'll probably take a couple of years as he finishes growing into his frame.

I can only think of one play where he was definately beat. nut other then that he did great. Now imagine when Bud is on the other side.

[pczach]

Heroes: AB, Special Teams coach, Shazier.

Honorable Mention: Watt. His two sacks look better on a stat sheet than they were in the game: one being a coverage sack and the other clean up. However, he gets a lot of credit for keeping his engine going on both plays and finally getting to the QB. Unfortunately, he didn't create opportunities for sacks, which is what I'm waiting to see (the most clear-cut example of creating an opportunity was Hargrave's sack when he drove the center straight back, then peeled off him and sacked the QB). However, his INT was a thing of beauty and well played.


Goats: Bell. He was slow and completely lacked suddeness and glide. :chuckle: Offensive play calling, especially coming out of the gate. I don't think I saw a ball thrown downfield that entire first drive, maybe first and second.

Incomplete: defensive play-calling. I'm not so worried about coming out with a lot of zone for this game. We have a brand new CB whose never played a down in a Steelers uniform on the field along with a safety who barely saw any play time this training camp and preseason, not to mention a rookie LB who would be tasked with a TE or RB in man coverage. However, we had better start the move to man coverage by our fourth game, or it's going to get ugly.

I don't understand the shade you're throwing Watt's way. Two sacks, an interception, and a handful of great plays from a rookie OLB in this system in his first game is more than enough to be a hero in this thread.

If you're going to say that Watt didn't do enough to be a star of the game because you think his 2 sacks were not clean sacks where he quickly beat the man in front of him, then you have to also mention the several times he quickly beat one of the best left tackles in the game and got instant pressure and a hand on the QB, and the many times that he soundly beat Joe Thomas and Thomas was forced to obviously hold him, but the officials refused to call them.

I think it was an awesome debut. If you watched the game against an elite tackle, you saw his speed. If you saw him set the edge or come off blocks and make plays against the run, then you know his strength is also fine. He will get stronger, but that motor is never going to slow down and his athleticism is elite for a man his size. He is a coach's dream.

You know how hard it is to make a difference as a rookie in the NFL. Yet you seem to be trying not to give Watt his due for some reason. I'm not putting him in the HOF, but he is clearly not your average rookie that is physically and mentally overwhelmed. He is already ballin' pretty well.

If having a pretty dominant day against what many think is the best LT of the last decade is not enough for you, I don't know what is.

[Mojouw]

Exactly. I get so tired of the screen passes. There are so many other (better?) ways that you can run a quick hitter.

I think many of those screen passes are "RPO" plays. It may be Ben that is switching into them. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/25/16201116/most-important-play-2017-run-pass-option-rpo-aaron-rodgers-ben-roethlisberger

Or it may be that it is a called bubble screen - no real way of knowing. I also didn't see the first offensive series.

[FrancoLambert]

Poor Jesse James. Getting little love for 2 TD's. Only mentioned twice. I'm as guilty as everyone else.

Played like a varsity player today.

[polamalubeast]

906975837710405634

[Steeldude]

Heroes: Chickillo, Watt, James, Matakevich, Brown, Hargrave

Goats: Bell, BR, O-line, dumb penalties, offensive play calling

[BurghBoy412]

Poor Jesse James. Getting little love for 2 TD's. Only mentioned twice. I'm as guilty as everyone else.

Played like a varsity player today.I hope he can continue to play just like this no more no less. If he can force teams to respect him as a passing option it's just going to open more up.

[Hawkman]

I hope he can continue to play just like this no more no less. If he can force teams to respect him as a passing option it's just going to open more up.

Love his concentration in traffic.

[tube517]

Forgot to add:

Gameball to Hargrave.

Goat to Hargrave - for falling over doing his "celebration" on one knee. :chuckle:

[Devilsdancefloor]

AB on O

OLBers for D

Honorable mention ST as a whole

Goats : Haley & Oline

[GoSlash27]

I'm not going to get down on the running game just yet. It's hard to get a running game going when you're in your own territory and behind the chains due to all the penalties.

My gameball goes to the Cleveland Browns. If they weren't the same ol' Browns, we would've lost this one.
Goat... That's a tougher one. So many bonehead penalties to choose from...

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not going to get down on the running game just yet. It's hard to get a running game going when you're in your own territory and behind the chains due to all the penalties.

My gameball goes to the Cleveland Browns. If they weren't the same ol' Browns, we would've lost this one.
Goat... That's a tougher one. So many bonehead penalties to choose from...

[teegre]

Poor Jesse James. Getting little love for 2 TD's. Only mentioned twice. I'm as guilty as everyone else.

Played like a varsity player today.

The Outlaw might just be the answer to the Steelers' redzone woes. Seriously.

That said, he sucks up until then. Case in point: he catches the ball with no one within 7 yards of him... and... and... and... he finally decides to turn/run upfield. He has the worst YAC I've ever seen for a Steelers player.

[86WARD]

The pass d was great. The defense was on the field for much of this game. They stuck in there and earned the team a win today, no thanks to the offense.

Nah it wasn't great. If Kizer wasn't a rookie, he would've torched them for several long passes. Add to that the blatant wide open drops that the Browns receivers had and Kizer would've easily been over 300 yards. The pass D got very lucky today...more so than playing well.

[DesertSteel]

Heroes: Watt/Chick/Brown

Goat: Bell

[pepsyman1]

Nah it wasn't great. If Kizer wasn't a rookie, he would've torched them for several long passes. Add to that the blatant wide open drops that the Browns receivers had and Kizer would've easily been over 300 yards. The pass D got very lucky today...more so than playing well.

thank you

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Was it just me or did Haden look like he got beat a couple times. One by Duke Johnson down the sideline? I was beginning to wonder if he is still not back to 100 percent

[Mojouw]

Was it just me or did Haden look like he got beat a couple times. One by Duke Johnson down the sideline? I was beginning to wonder if he is still not back to 100 percent

Hard to say. The TV broadcast talked about that being by design. Playing trail technique and then bailing towards the inside of the field and passing the guy off down the sideline to the safety.

I have no idea about that however. Be interesting if Steelers Depot gets into any of it later in the week.

Because you are right, either Haden got beat or he pulled off the coverage.

[BlackAndGold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ObBF7HMAE

[BlackAndGold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdoaKZvrSxs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VYPX8xUazU

[Moose]

Heroes: AB, Watt, and Matakevich for the blocked punt. We don't win this game without the blocked punt or AB and Watt

Goats: Haley, the offensive playcalling (especially early on) was so unbelievably atrocious (enough of the bubble screen already, it doesn't work), Le'Veon who wasn't ready to play until about 8 minutes left in the game, the oline was bad, Juju with 2 holding penalties (including one that prevented Pittsburgh from running out the clock and brought the Steelers time), and pass coverage let a receiving corp without one good pass catcher get open too many times. Too many holding penalties, too many missed tackles.

Also the refs were beyond hideous this game and heavily slanted in favor of Cleveland. I expected them to overturn that AB catch

Exactly !!! WE SUCKED BIG TIME !! This game could've been our first LOSS. We SUCKED! Again, playing DOWN to bottom feeder, can't rush a rookie QB, pathetic play calling, team looking like they weren't ready to play, etc.,etc.. Damnit anyway, can't this team come out just once and kick some ass for 60 minutes ?????? Just my opinion.

[polamalubeast]

907070744445816834

I agree with Dungy.

[Mojouw]

907070744445816834

I agree with Dungy.

I also agree. However, this is going to be the new "normal" and as NFL fans we just kinda have to adjust to it. NFL franchises are some of the most risk averse organizations that I can think of. If no one else is playing their main guys in the preseason, there is little chance one or two franchises go rogue and play their top 25 guys a ton.

The bottom line is the "real" NFL season doesn't start until Week 3 or 4. Its been that way for several years but no one really wants to talk about it.

[polamalubeast]

I also agree. However, this is going to be the new "normal" and as NFL fans we just kinda have to adjust to it. NFL franchises are some of the most risk averse organizations that I can think of. If no one else is playing their main guys in the preseason, there is little chance one or two franchises go rogue and play their top 25 guys a ton.

The bottom line is the "real" NFL season doesn't start until Week 3 or 4. Its been that way for several years but no one really wants to talk about it.


Yes, but if you start the season 0-2 or 0-3, you're in a big hole that can be hard to overcome

I'm only happy with the victory yesterday, but I was not surprised to see the whole offense of having the timing off with only 2 offensive drive by the starters in the preseason.

[DesertSteel]

Exactly !!! WE SUCKED BIG TIME !! This game could've been our first LOSS. We SUCKED! Again, playing DOWN to bottom feeder, can't rush a rookie QB, pathetic play calling, team looking like they weren't ready to play, etc.,etc.. Damnit anyway, can't this team come out just once and kick some ass for 60 minutes ?????? Just my opinion.
I'm not sure that our pass rush sucked. Seven sacks didn't happen because we sneezed on the QB. I'll take 16 games that could've been losses.

[Moose]

The bottom line is the "real" NFL season doesn't start until Week 3 or 4. Its been that way for several years but no one really wants to talk about it.

I agree, but EVERY game is a must win which for some reason coaches/teams don't seem to realize. How many losses to a bottom feeder ends up biting you in the ass and possibly preventing you a 'home' field advantage or even a play off spot ?!

[Mojouw]

I agree, but EVERY game is a must win which for some reason coaches/teams don't seem to realize. How many losses to a bottom feeder ends up biting you in the ass and possibly preventing you a 'home' field advantage or even a play off spot ?!

Sure and I agree with you and Polamalubeast about that. But take a serious look at the box scores and "highlights" from around the league yesterday. That was some seriously ugly football that got played almost universally.

I am not arguing that we have to like it or agree with it, but to bemoan it as some specific and unique failing to the Steelers is not supported by the observable facts. Other than teams with new coaches, the whole league played like it was a preseason week 2 game from 1988.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Hard to say. The TV broadcast talked about that being by design. Playing trail technique and then bailing towards the inside of the field and passing the guy off down the sideline to the safety.

I have no idea about that however. Be interesting if Steelers Depot gets into any of it later in the week.

Because you are right, either Haden got beat or he pulled off the coverage.

PFF quick grades out from yesterdays game and they comment on Hadens performance as "average at best" something like a 51 grade. I don't have any elaborate system, but just thought he didn't look that good on the corner from my point of view.

[Mojouw]

PFF quick grades out from yesterdays game and they comment on Hadens performance as "average at best" something like a 51 grade. I don't have any elaborate system, but just thought he didn't look that good on the corner from my point of view.

That's interesting. I do know that it seemed like the Browns were "targeting" Haden. Did they even throw at Burns side of the field?

It is just difficult without knowing the assignments/defensive strategy to confidently assess what is going on.

It did look to me like Haden better be as fast/quick as he still thinks he is because he looked like he was laying off in order to "bait" throws. Haden in his prime could get away with that and recover to make a play on the ball. This is my biggest concern, because that physical ability is usually the first thing to go with "ball hawking" CBs and the last thing they are able to mentally deal with. Their minds still think they can make plays their bodies can't.

By mo means am I saying that Haden is at that point. It is going to be fascinating to see how he plays over the course of the season. I can not think of a recent Steelers player were the opinions are so extreme - Haden is universally regarded as either "done" or "Pro Bowler on a redemption tour". Pretty wide variance.

[polamalubeast]

907180486832922624

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Moj, the fans want Haden to be the pro bowler he was, but I find it telling that the Browns thought he was not worth the $ and his first game against the team that gave up on him he played mediocre. I think we will see the Steelers overpaid Haden, but they don't need a pro bowl player on the corner to be successful. I just don't think he will play up to the level that Ike Taylor previously did, but am really hoping he doesn't become a turnstile.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Moj, the fans want Haden to be the pro bowler he was, but I find it telling that the Browns thought he was not worth the $ and his first game against the team that gave up on him he played mediocre. I think we will see the Steelers overpaid Haden, but they don't need a pro bowl player on the corner to be successful. I just don't think he will play up to the level that Ike Taylor previously did, but am really hoping he doesn't become a turnstile.

Well Hue Jackson certainly didn't want them to cut Haden and he's pissed about it. That should tell you that he can still play. It was more a money thing than anything else. I don't have any thoughts of Haden being the player that he used to be but I think that he'll definitely be a lot better than Cockrell. Some fans just need to give him a little time to get adjusted to our defense. I'm sure that he was pressing a bit yesterday to try to show the Browns that they shouldn't have cut him.

[DesertSteel]

What were Haden's numbers yesterday? Too hard to evaluate CB play watching on TV.

[BurghBoy412]

Haden better be ready to see a lot of footballs come his way. If yesterday was any indication of Burns progression towards "shut down" CB status. It was promising. I may be wrong but I don't recall many throws going in Artie's direction.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

What were Haden's numbers yesterday? Too hard to evaluate CB play watching on TV. Allowed 6 catches for 80 yards and a 106.3 passer rating for throws into his coverage.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-pittsburgh-steelers-21-cleveland-browns-18

The incomplete pass to the TE doesn't count and Haden wasn't supposed to cover down the deep sideline in cover 2. Coleman made a great catch in front of him on the double move, but Haden definitely bit. I was watching periodically and he didn't look like a former pro bowler. Seemed to be turning too quickly and allowing the hook/curl or out too easily at times. Has the whole week to clean it up.

[teegre]

Did they even throw at Burns side of the field?

I rememebr thinking the same thing: the Browns are either scared of Burns OR they are targeting Haden.

[Hawkman]

OR they are targeting Haden.

That was my impression.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Allowed 6 catches for 80 yards and a 106.3 passer rating for throws into his coverage.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-pittsburgh-steelers-21-cleveland-browns-18

The incomplete pass to the TE doesn't count and Haden wasn't supposed to cover down the deep sideline in cover 2. Coleman made a great catch in front of him on the double move, but Haden definitely bit. I was watching periodically and he didn't look like a former pro bowler. Seemed to be turning too quickly and allowing the hook/curl or out too easily at times. Has the whole week to clean it up.

Haden had very little time to practice and become familiar with our defense.

I'll definitely give him a pass for this game...

[43Hitman]

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the first couple weeks. He will be an upgrade and that's what we paid for. The Brownie's wanted to pay him 7M and he said, "hell for that money I can play in Pittsburgh and win....SEE YA!" So here he is. Yeah the contract says 27 Mill with 7 of that this year, but that's all that's guaranteed, the 7M. I don't mind us paying to get a definite upgrade at a position of weakness. Just my opinion though. :noidea:

[polamalubeast]

907328628031152130

[tube517]

Haden had very little time to practice and become familiar with our defense.

I'll definitely give him a pass for this game...

He does not get a pass for the dong sack, though. :nono: :chuckle:

[AtlantaDan]

Goat - the NFL preseason system of preparing for the regular season

It was not just Bell and the Steelers - this from The Washington Post

Week 1 showed the NFL preseason is broken, and there may not be a solution

How to explain the terrible offense out of the gate?...

The proper explanation is an intractable issue: NFL football is too dangerous to responsibly prepare for, and the preseason is broken because of it.

Offenses require more full-speed repetition than defenses. Wide receivers and quarterbacks need to hone precision and timing, and offensive lines require cohesion and coordination. Despite an industrial complex of OTAs and minicamps throughout the offseason, the risk of injury and collectively bargained practice constraints deter teams from full-speed, full-contact practices. Preseason games have become a joke, with entire first units playing together for scant reps or not at all.

There’s not a smarter way to do it, either....

But the effect of properly conserving players for the regular season was evident in Week 1. Offensive lines were especially ill-prepared....

The problem is, there’s no clear solution. It would be foolish and, in some cases, against CBA rules for NFL coaches to revert to a large slate of full-contact practices or to play starters for longer stretches in preseason games. Players are too big and too fast, and the risks are too steep. There’s not a good way for offenses to prepare for an NFL season. The results showed Sunday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/09/11/week-1-showed-the-nfl-preseason-is-broken-and-there-may-not-be-a-solution/?utm_term=.077a58c3b95b

[polamalubeast]

Danny Smith never has the credit, even when our special team are the reason for the win!

If we include the pre-season,our special team was great...The only reason for our win against the falcons in the preseason was also because of our ST.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Danny Smith never has the credit, even when our special team are the reason for the win!

If we include the pre-season,our special team was great...The only reason for our win against the falcons in the preseason was also because of our ST.
Coaches never get the credit, only the blame.

There are exceptions like Pete Carroll, Belichek who seem to get credit these days, maybe Andy Reid for being so productive with Alex Smith at QB. I think Belichek was credited for curing polio or inventing the internet.

[polamalubeast]

907351852806660096

[43Hitman]

I like the comment Re: In response to the poll Are you a fan of Todd Haley? Yes or No "Is there a hell no but sometimes he's a genius"

:lol:

For the record I like Haley just fine, he's human so therefore prone to mistakes and biases.

[polamalubeast]

Yesterday was probably the worst game of Haley since the game against the Jets in 2014, when Roethlisberger had started the 9/11 game for 24 yards !!!

[RunNGun]

Stop looking for perfection people, it's not going to happen. It was obvious the Browns were targeting WRs covered by Haden. So he gave up 6 catches, so what? He kept everything in front of him and tackled well. He also didn't give up any TDs. Giving up some catches is to be expected when teams, specifically, your ex team, are targeting you. We, as Steelers fans, are too spoiled at times. Haden wasn't brought in to be Richard Sherman, he was brought into be an upgrade over Cockrell. The one time he had bad coverage was on a play where he had to make a judgement call on whether to take the flats or run with the WR. That was in no way his fault, more of a wrong coverage playcall. Haden played well. You've got to understand that when the defense is shutting down the run, typically, teams will have more passing yards. That's just the way it is. Very similar to the 2008 and 2010 teams where they shut down the run, but gave up a lot of passing yards, those stats are misleading. I'll stick to my guns and say the pass defense was great considering how long our defense was on the field with no help from the offense and how the Browns were forced to pass the ball.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Stop looking for perfection people, it's not going to happen. It was obvious the Browns were targeting WRs covered by Haden. So he gave up 6 catches, so what? He kept everything in front of him and tackled well. He also didn't give up any TDs. Giving up some catches is to be expected when teams, specifically, your ex team, are targeting you. We, as Steelers fans, are too spoiled at times. Haden wasn't brought in to be Richard Sherman, he was brought into be an upgrade over Cockrell. The one time he had bad coverage was on a play where he had to make a judgement call on whether to take the flats or run with the WR. That was in no way his fault, more of a wrong coverage playcall. Haden played well. You've got to understand that when the defense is shutting down the run, typically, teams will have more passing yards. That's just the way it is. Very similar to the 2008 and 2010 teams where they shut down the run, but gave up a lot of passing yards, those stats are misleading. I'll stick to my guns and say the pass defense was great considering how long our defense was on the field with no help from the offense and how the Browns were forced to pass the ball.

so much polarity in the Haden discussions and its only week 1. Im not worried about him being able to perform down the road, but we arent paying him $9 million a season (even if theres a good chance that we treat his deal as a 1 year rental) to be a good tackler and keep everything in front of him. He needs to ball hard for us. I trust that it will come to fruition in a couple weeks

[RunNGun]

so much polarity in the Haden discussions and its only week 1. Im not worried about him being able to perform down the road, but we arent paying him $9 million a season (even if theres a good chance that we treat his deal as a 1 year rental) to be a good tackler and keep everything in front of him. He needs to ball hard for us. I trust that it will come to fruition in a couple weeks

IMO, we're all in this season. So paying Haden makes sense, but agreed, he needs to ball out and play like the money he's getting paid. I'm confident he will as well.

[vasteeler]

Some of you guys remind me of the old Vikings coach. I can't remember his name... You all realize we won the game right?

[teegre]

Some of you guys remind me of the old Vikings coach. I can't remember his name... You all realize we won the game right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYKIcnj1MJY&app=desktop


QUESTION: Is this the quote you were referring to?

[vasteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYKIcnj1MJY&app=desktop


QUESTION: Is this the quote you were referring to?

No, it was much further back. The coach was all pissed off and said something like" can't run the ball we can't pass the ball We couldn't stop anybody all day" then the reporter says something like" you realize you guys won the game right" and the coach even more pissed off says " yeah, I know"

[pczach]

No, it was much further back. The coach was all pissed off and said something like" can't run the ball we can't pass the ball We couldn't stop anybody all day" then the reporter says something like" you realize you guys won the game right" and the coach even more pissed off says " yeah, I know"


I'm thinking maybe it's Bud Grant, but I don't remember that particular press conference.

[vasteeler]

I'm thinking maybe it's Bud Grant, but I don't remember that particular press conference.

That's right, but grant that was it

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That's right, but grant that was it

You mean the Bud Grant that went for the opening coin toss in a short sleeve shirt in minus 6 degree weather a couple years ago? That guy is the bomb and he has killer yard sales too.

[vasteeler]

Now you've lost me

Edit: never mind.... Yes, that Bud Grant

[vasteeler]

Looking it up it wasn't Bud Grant at all. It was Jerry Burns.

[BlackAndGold]

907615265021681670

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Now you've lost me

Edit: never mind.... Yes, that Bud Grant

Vikings vs Seahawks playoff game 2 years ago. Temp - 6 at kickoff and Bud Grant rolls out for the coin toss like this. Legend.

Jerry Burns, not so legendary coach.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5891597/bud.0.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


907615265021681670

Yes, that was rather obvious. Trent Green stated as much in the broadcast. You could see that Haden had the short flat and passed him off to the safety who should have been in the deep zone.
http://idolosol.com/images/captain-obvious-2.jpg

[tube517]

Vikings vs Seahawks playoff game 2 years ago. Temp - 6 at kickoff and Bud Grant rolls out for the coin toss like this. Legend.

Jerry Burns, not so legendary coach.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/5891597/bud.0.jpg

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, that was rather obvious. Trent Green stated as much in the broadcast. You could see that Haden had the short flat and passed him off to the safety who should have been in the deep zone.
http://idolosol.com/images/captain-obvious-2.jpg

Bud Grant is still alive!?! Had no idea.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Bud Grant is still alive and he just held his final garage sale. His annual Garage Sales were something legendary. I listened to Dan LeBatard call in a couple years ago and it was hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSK-_f5us2A

[polamalubeast]

908056637474209792

[Psycho Ward 86]

908056637474209792

and thats the power of a dominant DL. with Tuitt/Dupree back were going to be able to take neutralizing running games for granted again