Steelers Send Scouts To Watch Top QB Prospect

[Drazo85]

Lamar Jackson= Slash

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[Born2Steel]

I meant are any of them considered the next Marino, Manning, Elway etc...? I wouldn't take a QB in the first unless he is really worth it

You come up with that working equation, and there's your billion dollar idea.

[Buckinnuts]

bowl game qb ratings...top 5 listed in above posts arent even in the top ten..just rudolph..i know teams they played etc..

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/seasontype/3/type/player-week/week/1

[Mojouw]

Yeah, I thought last year that he was just an athletic QB that could make passes to open WR's, but when watching him this year carry out play action fake, he got his feet squared nicely and had a good bounce on the balls of his feet and threw a nice mechanical football from the legs up. He looked like he could be a good mechanical QB and has Mike Vick type acceleration. His footwork looks a lot better than Mason Rudolf or Will Grier IMO.



The most intriguing QB is Lamar Jackson. He has immense talent (more so than any other QB), but he would need coaching. And, he might be there at 32. No reach, high potential.


Lamar Jackson may be the best football player in this draft. I don't know about as a QB, but he is lightning in a bottle as an athlete.


Lamar Jackson= Slash

I've seen several draft watchers I enjoy reading argue that Jackson is the best athlete in the entire draft and if he played WR, CB, or RB he would be the best player at those positions by a wide margin. Biggest problem at QB seems to be the RGIII type issue, does not look to throw once the pocket gets muddled or breaks down - instead he looks to take off and exposes himself to far too many hits/injury risks. So that raises the biggest question - can he be coached to retrain his brain to look to throw?

I don't know but I am starting to think that if he is hanging around later in the first round, just go get the kid and figure it out later. Sit him for a year or two. Worst case you have Tyrod Taylor 2.0 with better physical tools. Best case you have one of the best athletes to ever play QB ready to be unleashed on the NFL. Absolute worst case is that after 2 crappy preseasons at QB you sit the kid down and ask him if he really wants to play every down on Sundays? If the answer is "Yes" you transition him to a RB/WR role and potentially end up with some Leveon Bell-Terelle Pryor cross.

That seems to be less downside than a lot of other later first round picks and certainly far less "total bust" potential than the usual 3rd or 4th QB off the board in a given draft class.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Watch from approx. the 1:50 mark of this video vs UNC. I like how Jackson gets to the top of his drop and sets his feet, with a little bounce in his step. He has a nice compact position with his left hand on the football and when he sees the opening he delivers some nice passes on target. Sure its not always consistent, but when he does setup technically well, he has great results.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTZ6mgvzi2I

In contrast I watched some Mason Rudolf and Will Grier earlier this year and they can get flat footed when going thru their progressions and throw the ball with all arm, while not using their legs for direction and velocity. In fact, I think Grier's last 2 INT vs OSU were cases of that happening.

I think there is potential to improve Jackson as a passer and think he can become a Randall Cunningham type of player with the athleticism, but has the QB skills to operate from the pocket. Just don't know what study habits are like for film and reading coverages at this point.

[BostonBlackie]

I've seen several draft watchers I enjoy reading argue that Jackson is the best athlete in the entire draft and if he played WR, CB, or RB he would be the best player at those positions by a wide margin. Biggest problem at QB seems to be the RGIII type issue, does not look to throw once the pocket gets muddled or breaks down - instead he looks to take off and exposes himself to far too many hits/injury risks. So that raises the biggest question - can he be coached to retrain his brain to look to throw?

I don't know but I am starting to think that if he is hanging around later in the first round, just go get the kid and figure it out later. Sit him for a year or two. Worst case you have Tyrod Taylor 2.0 with better physical tools. Best case you have one of the best athletes to ever play QB ready to be unleashed on the NFL. Absolute worst case is that after 2 crappy preseasons at QB you sit the kid down and ask him if he really wants to play every down on Sundays? If the answer is "Yes" you transition him to a RB/WR role and potentially end up with some Leveon Bell-Terelle Pryor cross.

That seems to be less downside than a lot of other later first round picks and certainly far less "total bust" potential than the usual 3rd or 4th QB off the board in a given draft class.

Look, as Belichick said to QB Julian Edelman, you can play football, I don't know what we'll do with you, but we'll find a place. If he has a motor like Edelman's, just take him. Too much talent to pass on.

[Mojouw]

I dunno. The more I read and watch Jackson, the more I start to think that if he were to fall - I might just rip up whatever other plan I had for the first round. I really liked Mahomes last year and I am starting to like Jackson for some of the same reasons. Looks to have all the arm in the world, can certainly make something out of "broken" plays, and appears to be fearless. I realize the pre-draft process hasn't really even started and I will certainly change my mind like 3 dozen times -- but right now I think I'm thinking about picking out my seat on the Jackson hype train.

Here is some stuff to take a look at.

http://www.cover1.net/scouting-notebook-lamar-jackson-qb-louisville/
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018LJackson.php
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/12/nfl-draft-2018-lamar-jackson-scouting-report-josh-allen-anonymous-scouts-racial-bias

The most interesting thing I took away is Colbert's comments from earlier this season about how to evaluate "Spread" QBs. He basically said look at accuracy but mostly look at what they were asked to do in terms of audibles and multiple reads. Some guys have one read and go - others have more of a mental load in their system. Jackson plays for Petrino and is asked to do "pro style" stuff. POint? He has already demonstrated that he is mentally further along than other "spread" guys. Gets more intriguing as things go...

[Steeldude]

You come up with that working equation, and there's your billion dollar idea.

I'll take that as a no, none of them are regarded as anything special.

[Mojouw]

I'll take that as a no, none of them are regarded as anything special.

Define special? Roethlisberger was regarded by many as the 3rd best prospect in his class - a strong class to be sure but still...

Wentz was not viewed as particularly "special" of a QB prospect coming out and he damn near won the league MVP this year.

Russell Wilson was picked outside of the first round and he has developed into a rock-steady dead-eyed killer at QB.

Deshaun Watson was highly questioned in the last class while Trubisky was lauded by many. I know which one I would rather have moving forward.

I mean if you're looking for a sure thing - the NFL draft is not the place to be searching about.

[Steeldude]

Define special? Roethlisberger was regarded by many as the 3rd best prospect in his class - a strong class to be sure but still...

Wentz was not viewed as particularly "special" of a QB prospect coming out and he damn near won the league MVP this year.

Russell Wilson was picked outside of the first round and he has developed into a rock-steady dead-eyed killer at QB.

Deshaun Watson was highly questioned in the last class while Trubisky was lauded by many. I know which one I would rather have moving forward.

I mean if you're looking for a sure thing - the NFL draft is not the place to be searching about.

I don't hear the hype like 1983. I mean I haven't heard anyone bragging about this year's QB crop other than maybe a couple of good QBs, but mostly slightly above average QBs. It seems to me these are spread-option/shotgun QBs for the most part. I haven't really looked into that deeply as of yet. Rosen seems to be the best pure passer with his knock being durability due to his frame.

[Mojouw]

I don't hear the hype like 1983. I mean I haven't heard anyone bragging about this year's QB crop other than maybe a couple of good QBs, but mostly slightly above average QBs. It seems to me these are spread-option/shotgun QBs for the most part. I haven't really looked into that deeply as of yet. Rosen seems to be the best pure passer with his knock being durability due to his frame.

There is plenty of stuff out there that lauds this class as pretty good:

"Potentially, sure, it could stand side-by-side with a number of these classes that have come through,” said former Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage" - https://sports.yahoo.com/best-college-qb-class-history-065830268.html

"Last summer, the 2018 NFL (http://bleacherreport.com/nfl) draft's quarterback class was thought to be on par with the famed 2004 crop of Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger (http://bleacherreport.com/ben-roethlisberger)." Article then goes on to talk about how some of the prospects failed to live up to massive expectations in terms of college #'s - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2740828-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-is-there-a-franchise-savior-qb-in-2018-class

"The Year of the QB" -- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000836582/article/year-of-the-qb-ranking-top-five-qb-classes-of-alltime

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/2018-nfl-draft-quarterback-class-primer/story?id=52057270

Nothing my ever meet or exceed the '83 class but who know with the 24/7 365 nature of the "Scouting" process now, I think everyone gets graded down. Someone would be writing a dozen article a month about how Marino couldn't move and Kelly and Elway looked to run too much if they came out now.

[DesertSteel]

Darnold and Rosen are no James Harrison!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Darnold and Rosen are no James Harrison!
IDK, I bet if you get Darnold in the weight room like Harrison he can bulk up. Josh Rosen was apparently late to a lot of classes and meetings, so he's got that to start with.

[Born2Steel]

I'll take that as a no, none of them are regarded as anything special.

I started a thread and have given the top rated QB stats for an entire college football season, up to the bowls. Take a look and see if any of them jump off the screen for you.

It's not an exact science, that's what I was trying to explain. All we can go on for now are the physical abilities of the players. We have no idea which ones may have a hidden 'Johnny football' or 'Ryan Leaf' inside their genetic makeup. For all I know they could all end up starters in the NFL, or just as easily be bat crap crazy. There's no way to answer your question accurately until more info comes out.

[teegre]

I think there is potential to improve Jackson as a passer and think he can become a Randall Cunningham type of player with the athleticism, but has the QB skills to operate from the pocket.

Bingo!!! That is where coaching (the forgotten part of the NFL comes into play). Luckily, the Steelers do a pretty darn good job of developing their talent.

[teegre]

I dunno. The more I read and watch Jackson, the more I start to think that if he were to fall - I might just rip up whatever other plan I had for the first round. I really liked Mahomes last year and I am starting to like Jackson for some of the same reasons. Looks to have all the arm in the world, can certainly make something out of "broken" plays, and appears to be fearless. I realize the pre-draft process hasn't really even started and I will certainly change my mind like 3 dozen times -- but right now I think I'm thinking about picking out my seat on the Jackson hype train.

Here is some stuff to take a look at.

http://www.cover1.net/scouting-notebook-lamar-jackson-qb-louisville/
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018LJackson.php
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/12/nfl-draft-2018-lamar-jackson-scouting-report-josh-allen-anonymous-scouts-racial-bias

The most interesting thing I took away is Colbert's comments from earlier this season about how to evaluate "Spread" QBs. He basically said look at accuracy but mostly look at what they were asked to do in terms of audibles and multiple reads. Some guys have one read and go - others have more of a mental load in their system. Jackson plays for Petrino and is asked to do "pro style" stuff. POint? He has already demonstrated that he is mentally further along than other "spread" guys. Gets more intriguing as things go...

:nod: He’s got unGodly talent. His arm is strong and accurate. He’s smart. He is coachable. He is already shown the ability to call plays. So, in a nutshell, here is how I see it:

Ceiling: He’s Deshaun Watson.

Floor: He moves to RB/WR and becomes what Slash should have been (the most unstoppable weapon in the league).

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

:nod: He’s got unGodly talent. His arm is strong and accurate. He’s smart. He is coachable. He is already shown the ability to call plays. So, in a nutshell, here is how I see it:

Ceiling: He’s Deshaun Watson.

Floor: He moves to RB/WR and becomes what Slash should have been (the most unstoppable weapon in the league). Not digging him, what we should be looking for is a QB with great accuracy to get the ball to the play makers. This team already has enough freakish talent on offense and need a QB. Not a player we may want to move to another position.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Are any of these QBs real 1st round prospects? Or are they only in the 1st round because they happen to be the best out of an average pool? I remember months before the draft last year how everyone said how horrible the QB draft was going to be that year. Praising how good the next one will be like the 83 draft. Once the college season started the talk of the 2018 draft for QB's stopped quickly. Meaning this class didn't look to impressive either.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

That said I wouldn't pass on Mayfield if he is there at 32. Which some team will pick him to early I'm sure. He reminds me of a younger Phillip Rivers.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That said I wouldn't pass on Mayfield if he is there at 32. Which some team will pick him to early I'm sure. He reminds me of a younger Phillip Rivers.

I think how he performs at the Senior Bowl will have a lot to do with his draft stock. The last 2 guys that impressed at the Senior bowl and improved their stock at QB were Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott. That being said, there was also a year where EJ Manuel impressed in practices and the game, but I think if Mayfield shows he can handle the footwork and a pro style offense in Mobile, it will put him in the top 15.

I personally think his agent will tell him not to go to the Senior Bowl, as it could hurt his draft stock.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I think how he performs at the Senior Bowl will have a lot to do with his draft stock. The last 2 guys that impressed at the Senior bowl and improved their stock at QB were Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott. That being said, there was also a year where EJ Manuel impressed in practices and the game, but I think if Mayfield shows he can handle the footwork and a pro style offense in Mobile, it will put him in the top 15.

I personally think his agent will tell him not to go to the Senior Bowl, as it could hurt his draft stock. Lets hope he does play and has a bad outing. He could drop somewhere close to where we pick. I like him and he has spunk and throws a good deep ball.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Lets hope he does play and has a bad outing. He could drop somewhere close to where we pick. I like him and he has spunk and throws a good deep ball.

I hope he goes before we pick. He needs a lot a help with footwork, pre snap reads and hasn't played in a pro style offense, so the learning curve will be big for him. Plus, what you call spunk, most call self-centered, narcissism or a bad attitude. If he wasn't busy trolling Lee Corso before the game and running patterns in front of the Georgia WR's....maybe he is more focused on his assignments and OKLA might have won. I predict his NFL career will be 5 years or less.

[Steelerette]

I don't want Baker Mayfield.

[Born2Steel]

Baker Mayfield's footwork and technique are soooo freaking bad, he carries a 70% completion rate for 3 consecutive seasons. Whether or not he would make a good Steeler QB is very much up for debate, the fact that the guy can play the position is not.

[Buckinnuts]

johnny manziel JR. (mayfield) no thanks

[Steeldude]

That said I wouldn't pass on Mayfield if he is there at 32. Which some team will pick him to early I'm sure. He reminds me of a younger Phillip Rivers.

I wouldn't pick Mayfield at any point in the draft. He is exactly like Manziel without the crappy attitude/persona. IMO, he will float around the NFL for 2 to 4 years and then disappear.

[Steeldude]

Baker Mayfield's footwork and technique are soooo freaking bad, he carries a 70% completion rate for 3 consecutive seasons. Whether or not he would make a good Steeler QB is very much up for debate, the fact that the guy can play the position is not.

He can play the position in college in a spread offense. It was the same for Manziel, Vince Young, Kingsbury, Tebow...

Anything is possible I suppose, but I really can't see this guy doing well at all in the NFL.

[86WARD]

Lamar Jackson would be a terrible pick in the late first round for the Steelers. Better needs to be filled than a gamble on a college athlete. He’s not an NFL QB. Not unless you want a run first guy that will make some nice plays and lose a lot of games.

[Mojouw]

Lamar Jackson would be a terrible pick in the late first round for the Steelers. Better needs to be filled than a gamble on a college athlete. He’s not an NFL QB. Not unless you want a run first guy that will make some nice plays and lose a lot of games.

Like Deshuan Watson?

[Born2Steel]

I love all of the "opinions" of what guys can't do in the NFL with zero evidence to back it up. Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are both too short to be successful in the NFL. Steve Young was a total bust in Tampa. Only QBs rated as 1st rounders by the analysts have a chance to succeed, the rest are garbage and wasted picks, except for those that weren't.

What do the direct comparisons of Mayfield to Manziel come from?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000310884/article/johnny-manziels-game-is-reminiscent-of-many-nfl-qbs

Where is the evidence Lamar Jackson is a bust as an NFL QB?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000818444/article/first-look-scouting-louisville-qb-lamar-jackson

[cubanstogie]

I really like Tyrod. A lot of poise, good accurate arm and he obviously can run. With the right talent he could be a poor mans Russel Wilson. After watching Tom Savage suck balls tonight he reminded me of Landry Jones. Slow, no passion and had deer in headlights look. We all know Landry will lead us no where. Dobbs has a couple of years to develop and then jury is out. If Ben does retire I think Tyrod would be best choice, or AJ Mccarron. I don't see any for sure things. Mayfield ,Rudolf ,Finley, are a role of dice. Lamar Jackson would be my pick over any of them. Doubt he'll be around though since we'll have last pick.
I officially change my mind on Tyrod after watching that game, If we cant get AJ for a cheap price its to the draft. For me it wasn't missed throws by Tyrod, it was more about choice of throws and missed opportunities.

[st33lersguy]

I officially change my mind on Tyrod after watching that game, If we cant get AJ for a cheap price its to the draft. For me it wasn't missed throws by Tyrod, it was more about choice of throws and missed opportunities.

Agreed tyrod= 0 super bowls

[DesertSteel]

Was it decided by the league if AJM is a free agent this spring? There was some debate related to injury, I believe.

[ALLD]

You fogot about Doug Flutie being too short too. He did well after the CFL.

[Mojouw]

I love how watching Bortles and Taylor set back offensive football 2 decades has induced moments of clarity in many!

Goodness the lack of testicular fortitude displayed by those two today was staggering. Both left so many throws unattempted because they were scared of turning it over.

Makes me appreciate Ben even more. He has no fear or conscience when challenging a great defense.

That is kind of the hardest thing to evaluate with these draft prospects. Landry Jones has all the arm he’d ever need, but lacks the guts to consistently just let er rip. Dobbs seems to be more like Ben and doesn’t think there is a throw he can’t make. He just can’t actually make them all.

So which draft guys are fearless combined with talented enough to consistently attempt to fit passes into places that most fear to tread?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[teegre]

So which draft guys are fearless combined with talented enough to consistently attempt to fit passes into places that most fear to tread?


Josh Rosen

[Born2Steel]

I love how watching Bortles and Taylor set back offensive football 2 decades has induced moments of clarity in many!

Goodness the lack of testicular fortitude displayed by those two today was staggering. Both left so many throws unattempted because they were scared of turning it over.

Makes me appreciate Ben even more. He has no fear or conscience when challenging a great defense.

That is kind of the hardest thing to evaluate with these draft prospects. Landry Jones has all the arm he’d ever need, but lacks the guts to consistently just let er rip. Dobbs seems to be more like Ben and doesn’t think there is a throw he can’t make. He just can’t actually make them all.

So which draft guys are fearless combined with talented enough to consistently attempt to fit passes into places that most fear to tread?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Draft guys? There are a few. Available for trade talks? How about Lynch or Kelly? Denver is wasting both.

Draftable
Rosen, Falk, Finley, Mayfield, Ferguson, Briscoe, White, Rypien, Allen, Woodside, Flowers, McSorley, and Rudolph.

Not all will be NFL QBs, but to answer your question about which ones have the confidence to play.

[pczach]

I love how watching Bortles and Taylor set back offensive football 2 decades has induced moments of clarity in many!

Goodness the lack of testicular fortitude displayed by those two today was staggering. Both left so many throws unattempted because they were scared of turning it over.

Makes me appreciate Ben even more. He has no fear or conscience when challenging a great defense.

That is kind of the hardest thing to evaluate with these draft prospects. Landry Jones has all the arm he’d ever need, but lacks the guts to consistently just let er rip. Dobbs seems to be more like Ben and doesn’t think there is a throw he can’t make. He just can’t actually make them all.

So which draft guys are fearless combined with talented enough to consistently attempt to fit passes into places that most fear to tread?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's where a guy like Josh Allen makes you think of what's possible. He has all the physical skills. He's a big guy that has a big arm, he can move, and he is fearless when it comes to attempting to fit the ball into tight spots or push it down the field. It is simultaneously his biggest weakness. He would need to be coached to read defenses better and not try to overwhelm defenses through the sheer power of his arm. If he can do that, and learn when to take chances and when to take what's there, he's exactly what you're looking for.

He didn't play against top level talent, but his team also wasn't very good. He had a lot to overcome. He's a difficult evaluation because it feels like he regressed this year. His team was less talented, and he still has the physical skills and plays hard and fearless.

He plays in shotgun and under center.

He's probably going to impress scouts at the combine and pro days with his arm strength and accuracy. There are those that have seen him perform in high wind conditions and be able to drive the ball through the wind and get the ball on target.

What will be interesting is if he plays in the Senior Bowl or another Bowl game where he'll get some coaching and thrown into a system he isn't familiar with, and goes against superior talent to what he has faced. He's a player that everyone is going to want to see in live action. How well does he takes coaching? How quickly does he picks things up? How well does he read defenses? What can he handle in a huddle? How does pressure affect his accuracy and decision making?

Then after seeing all of that, you have to project how his skills will translate to the NFL and into the system you want to run.

He's going to be interesting to watch.

[cubanstogie]

His highlights look great, don’t know what his lowlights look like though

[Born2Steel]

That's where a guy like Josh Allen makes you think of what's possible. He has all the physical skills. He's a big guy that has a big arm, he can move, and he is fearless when it comes to attempting to fit the ball into tight spots or push it down the field. It is simultaneously his biggest weakness. He would need to be coached to read defenses better and not try to overwhelm defenses through the sheer power of his arm. If he can do that, and learn when to take chances and when to take what's there, he's exactly what you're looking for.

He didn't play against top level talent, but his team also wasn't very good. He had a lot to overcome. He's a difficult evaluation because it feels like he regressed this year. His team was less talented, and he still has the physical skills and plays hard and fearless.

He plays in shotgun and under center.

He's probably going to impress scouts at the combine and pro days with his arm strength and accuracy. There are those that have seen him perform in high wind conditions and be able to drive the ball through the wind and get the ball on target.

What will be interesting is if he plays in the Senior Bowl or another Bowl game where he'll get some coaching and thrown into a system he isn't familiar with, and goes against superior talent to what he has faced. He's a player that everyone is going to want to see in live action. How well does he takes coaching? How quickly does he picks things up? How well does he read defenses? What can he handle in a huddle? How does pressure affect his accuracy and decision making?

Then after seeing all of that, you have to project how his skills will translate to the NFL and into the system you want to run.

He's going to be interesting to watch.

Josh Allen is the QB that reminds me most of Ben from this draft class. I just haven't seen enough of him to put him at the top of my opinion list. I know the draft analysts have been very high on him since last season.
There are several "small school" QBs in this draft that could end up major upgrades for NFL teams. If Boise State's Rypien(Mark Rypien's kid) decides to enter the draft, he could impress the pre-draft gurus enough to climb into the first round. Lots of arm talent out there.

[pczach]

Josh Allen is the QB that reminds me most of Ben from this draft class. I just haven't seen enough of him to put him at the top of my opinion list. I know the draft analysts have been very high on him since last season.
There are several "small school" QBs in this draft that could end up major upgrades for NFL teams. If Boise State's Rypien(Mark Rypien's kid) decides to enter the draft, he could impress the pre-draft gurus enough to climb into the first round. Lots of arm talent out there.


He has some things he really has to work on.

He needs to get better and more consistent with his footwork. He needs to do better throwing the ball with more touch and finesse in certain situations. He forces the ball at times.

His offensive line wasn't great and he doesn't have a lot of weapons that get great separation, so there is that to consider as well.

I think he's the closest thing to Mahomes from last year. He's little ahead of Mahomes because he plays more under center and has more responsibilities that Mahomes had in school.

We have a lot to learn about him yet. He's a big, athletic player with a big arm like Carson Wentz or Mahomes. I really believe it will come down to the mental demands of the game like reading defenses, and whether he is able to develop touch passes and learning to throw the ball underneath instead of forcing throws down the field. That remains to be seen, and may have to be an educated guess.

[Shoes]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20117075/wyoming-cowboys-josh-allen-goes-unknown-no-1-pick-nfl-draft-buzz

[pczach]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/20117075/wyoming-cowboys-josh-allen-goes-unknown-no-1-pick-nfl-draft-buzz



Thanks for the link.

I hadn't seen this breakdown by McShay.

He seems to be seeing much of what I'm seeing. It's just a very short player description, but it falls in line with what I'm seeing as well.

[Hawkman]

My alma mater is University of Richmond, I know it’s and FCS school, but we’ve sent a few players to the NFL. Our QB for the past three years, Kyle Lauletta has played some really good football. Passing for over 10,000 yards. Not sure how he would do in the NFL, but he has been invited to the combine. Guy is fearless and smart. Love to see him get a shot somewhere.

[Shoes]

My alma mater is University of Richmond, I know it’s and FCS school, but we’ve sent a few players to the NFL. Our QB for the past three years, Kyle Lauletta has played some really good football. Passing for over 10,000 yards. Not sure how he would do in the NFL, but he has been invited to the combine. Guy is fearless and smart. Love to see him get a shot somewhere.

Of course he is a good player, he's a PA Boy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgjipKAy4U0

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I officially change my mind on Tyrod after watching that game, If we cant get AJ for a cheap price its to the draft. For me it wasn't missed throws by Tyrod, it was more about choice of throws and missed opportunities.

Yeah, I never really ever understood how so many thought Tyrod Taylor can be anything but a game manager in the NFL and not a guy that will win big games when needed.

[teegre]

My alma mater is University of Richmond, I know it’s and FCS school, but we’ve sent a few players to the NFL. Our QB for the past three years, Kyle Lauletta has played some really good football. Passing for over 10,000 yards. Not sure how he would do in the NFL, but he has been invited to the combine. Guy is fearless and smart. Love to see him get a shot somewhere.

YES!!!

He a guy that I’ve mentioned a few times, who is worth taking a shot at with the 96th pick.

[Steeldude]

I love all of the "opinions" of what guys can't do in the NFL with zero evidence to back it up. Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are both too short to be successful in the NFL. Steve Young was a total bust in Tampa. Only QBs rated as 1st rounders by the analysts have a chance to succeed, the rest are garbage and wasted picks, except for those that weren't.

What do the direct comparisons of Mayfield to Manziel come from?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000310884/article/johnny-manziels-game-is-reminiscent-of-many-nfl-qbs

Where is the evidence Lamar Jackson is a bust as an NFL QB?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000818444/article/first-look-scouting-louisville-qb-lamar-jackson

Supply a list of short Super Bowl QBs. I believe there are only 2(Tarkenton, Brees). On average, short QBs do not do well in the NFL. No one said a short QB can't be successful in the NFL. However, usually they aren't successful in the NFL. Mayfield would be a project. His mechanics and footwork are sub-par. He played strictly in shotgun in a spread offense. He is also short. He has a lot going against him. All of that does not mean he can't be the next Joe Montana or John Elway.

What was your take on Manziel coming out of college?

Are/were there any successful QBs in Tampa?


I love all of the "opinions" of what guys can't do in the NFL with zero evidence to back it up.

For Mayfield...

Short
Played in shotgun only
Spread offense
Poor mechanics
Tends to hold the ball too long

What evidence are you looking for? There is evidence for and against for every nearly player in the draft. What are the pros for Mayfield? Running and strong arm?

Perhaps Mayfield will be one of the greatest NFL QBs, but he would be a huge gamble to draft early.

[Mojouw]

Joe Montana was one inch taller. Do I win a prize?

Mayfield is listed at 6 foot 1. Montana and Young were 6 feet 2.

Aaron Rodgers is 6 foot 2.


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[Mojouw]

Also, we can’t just discard guys because “spread”. That’s 9 out of 10 college offenses at the top levels.


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[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Baker Mayfield's footwork and technique are soooo freaking bad, he carries a 70% completion rate for 3 consecutive seasons. Whether or not he would make a good Steeler QB is very much up for debate, the fact that the guy can play the position is not.

Are you stating a QB draft opinion based upon QB completion percentage in College? Do you know who the top 5 QB's are in College Completion Percentage?

1. Colt Brennan 2005-2007 Hawaii...70.39%
2. Colt McCoy 2006-2009 Texas ...70.33%
3. Kellen Moore 2008-2011 Boise St... 69.78%
4. Graham Harrell 2005-2008 Texas Tech...69.77%
5. Brandon Weeden 2008-2011 Okla. St....69.54%

I guess there is no doubt they can play the position. BTW;

11. Baker Mayfield 2013-2017 Okla........68.54%

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-cmp-pct-player-career.html

[Steeldude]

Joe Montana was one inch taller. Do I win a prize?

Mayfield is listed at 6 foot 1. Montana and Young were 6 feet 2.

Aaron Rodgers is 6 foot 2.


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So where does it stop? 5' 11" is just an inch shorter than 6'. 5' 10" is just an inch shorter than 5' 11" and so on. Now that we know height is meaningless so must arm strength.

Mayfield looks more like 6' tops.

How many of these QBs play only in shotgun and a classic spread? There is a long list of spread QBs who put up absurd stats in college, but never made it in the NFL.

[teegre]

So where does it stop? 5' 11" is just an inch shorter than 6'. 5' 10" is just an inch shorter than 5' 11" and so on. Now that we know height is meaningless so must arm strength.

Mayfield looks more like 6' tops.

I’m not defending Mayfield, but since you mentioned 5’11”...

Two of the past eight Super Bowl winning QBs were only 5’11”: Brees & Wilson.

[Mojouw]

Mayfield might very well suck. But the blueprint of a 6 foot 5 cannon armed statue at QB is an outdated and not very interesting model for evaluating draft QBs.

Smaller mobile spread concept QBs are the new status quo in the NCAA. The NFL better damn we'll figure out how to evaluate them or face having no viable young QBs.

Also for every shotgun spread flop, we can come up with Jeff George or Kyle Boller.


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[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Are you stating a QB draft opinion based upon QB completion percentage in College? Do you know who the top 5 QB's are in College Completion Percentage?

1. Colt Brennan 2005-2007 Hawaii...70.39%
2. Colt McCoy 2006-2009 Texas ...70.33%
3. Kellen Moore 2008-2011 Boise St... 69.78%
4. Graham Harrell 2005-2008 Texas Tech...69.77%
5. Brandon Weeden 2008-2011 Okla. St....69.54%

I guess there is no doubt they can play the position. BTW;

11. Baker Mayfield 2013-2017 Okla........68.54%

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-cmp-pct-player-career.html Your stats seem to imply never draft a QB named Colt. Nor a fictitious character one on the show The Ranch.

[Mojouw]

So where does it stop? 5' 11" is just an inch shorter than 6'. 5' 10" is just an inch shorter than 5' 11" and so on. Now that we know height is meaningless so must arm strength.

Mayfield looks more like 6' tops.

How many of these QBs play only in shotgun and a classic spread? There is a long list of spread QBs who put up absurd stats in college, but never made it in the NFL.

It stops wherever the hell a kid can play. Hell if he's 4 feet tall and can complete a 12 yard out to the far side of the field against an NFL defense, I will take a look.


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[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Your stats seem to imply never draft a QB named Colt. Nor a fictitious character one on the show The Ranch.

What about famed stuntman Colt Seavers? aka, The Fall Guy.

[Steeldude]

It stops wherever the hell a kid can play. Hell if he's 4 feet tall and can complete a 12 yard out to the far side of the field against an NFL defense, I will take a look.


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And what are the odds of success for short QBs?

Is being short a pro or con? Why are players measured, weighed, timed etc?

I wouldn't use a first round pick on Mayfield.

[Steeldude]

Mayfield might very well suck. But the blueprint of a 6 foot 5 cannon armed statue at QB is an outdated and not very interesting model for evaluating draft QBs.

Smaller mobile spread concept QBs are the new status quo in the NCAA. The NFL better damn we'll figure out how to evaluate them or face having no viable young QBs.

Also for every shotgun spread flop, we can come up with Jeff George or Kyle Boller.


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Yep, and why do coaches and scouts favor tall QBs over short QBs? It's not just about height and arm strength. If you are tall and have a strong arm those are bonuses, but what about the college offense played in, the IQ of the QB, the mechanics, attitude and so forth?

Which QB would you draft between Rosen and Mayfield and why?

[teegre]

Yep, and why do coaches and scouts favor tall QBs over short QBs? It's not just about height and arm strength. If you are tall and have a strong arm those are bonuses, but what about the college offense played in, the IQ of the QB, the mechanics, attitude and so forth?

Which QB would you draft between Rosen and Mayfield and why?

You try to find a player with the most “ideal” attributes. The more attributes, the better the odds of success (and the higher they get drafted).

Rosen is the #1 overall pick... because, he has the most of the “ideal” attributes.

[Born2Steel]

Supply a list of short Super Bowl QBs. I believe there are only 2(Tarkenton, Brees). On average, short QBs do not do well in the NFL. No one said a short QB can't be successful in the NFL. However, usually they aren't successful in the NFL. Mayfield would be a project. His mechanics and footwork are sub-par. He played strictly in shotgun in a spread offense. He is also short. He has a lot going against him. All of that does not mean he can't be the next Joe Montana or John Elway.

What was your take on Manziel coming out of college?

Are/were there any successful QBs in Tampa?



For Mayfield...

Short
Played in shotgun only
Spread offense
Poor mechanics
Tends to hold the ball too long

What evidence are you looking for? There is evidence for and against for every nearly player in the draft. What are the pros for Mayfield? Running and strong arm?

Perhaps Mayfield will be one of the greatest NFL QBs, but he would be a huge gamble to draft early.

I very much disliked Manziel in that draft(2013?). Still has no bearing on this draft.

[Born2Steel]

Yep, and why do coaches and scouts favor tall QBs over short QBs? It's not just about height and arm strength. If you are tall and have a strong arm those are bonuses, but what about the college offense played in, the IQ of the QB, the mechanics, attitude and so forth?

Which QB would you draft between Rosen and Mayfield and why?

Yes. Height is a measurable for a QB. There is such a thing as too short or too tall. Mayfield will have his issues due to his height. Let me go on record with you and tell you, I do not necessarily want Mayfield as a Steeler. I do however, believe he is an upgrade over what is currently playing behind Ben. There are QBs in this draft that I would take over Mayfield. FOR THE STEELERS. The blanket statement that a player cannot make it in football because of measurable, or a system he played in college, or because he reminds you of another person, is what I was ranting on. Offer your opinion, give reasons for your opinion, and we can discuss. Just a "he's a bust", he's just another 'name here'", or the system he played in doesn't work in the NFL, simply means there is no discussion, mind id made up. The point of a forum is to discuss. Not referring to you specifically, referring to the "this guy only, everyone else sucks" posters.

[Mojouw]

And what are the odds of success for short QBs?

Is being short a pro or con? Why are players measured, weighed, timed etc?

I wouldn't use a first round pick on Mayfield.

What are the odds for success for tall QBs? Is being tall a pro or con? Osweiler is like 9 feet tall and that guy is absolute garbage.

In terms of Mayfield were are talking about a dude who is listed as one inch shorter than 3 of the most prolific HOF QBs ever to play the game.

Additionally, we have absolutely NO real idea about the impact of height on QB play because this is a league that blindly discarded guys as QB prospects due to height for years. How many Russell Wilsons and Drew Brees; and Doug Fluties (tell me with a straight face that Flutie if he came out today wouldn't have an above average career in the NFL) were simply ignored due to perspectives like you are seemingly taking?

Heck, this is a league that for many years ignored or found reasons to NOT evaluate guys because they were black and played QB (Warren Moon didn't get drafted!). I'm sorry I'm not going to continue to buy NFL scouts BS on what an NFL QB needs to look like. Much of what the typical physical profile has usually been has proven to be unnecessary over and over again. OR at the very best a totally unreliable predictor of success. The NFL draft is littered with the carcasses of big, tall, strong-armed guys who couldn't play QB worth a darn.

This is also a league of stubborn risk averse coaches. The NFL is not a league of frequent innovation or flexibility in coaching attitudes. How many QBs came into the league and were discarded because they couldn't fit some OC's vision of a system or what a QB should be? Honestly, looking at the track record over time we can reach two conclusions:

1. Either playing NFL QB is literally the hardest thing human beings have ever attempted to do and out of billions of people on the planet only about 10-12 at any one time can perform this task at a high level.
2. Or - NFL coaches have for too long narrowly defined the "acceptable" range of QB play and squandered the talents of a # of individuals that would have been able to produce excellent QB play in a modified system. What am I talking about? Rich Gannon was on benches for how long? Did he suddenly get good after a decade in the league or did he finally find a coach who allowed him to play his way? Flutie getting blackballed for his height for almost his career is maddeningly stupid. What would Randall Cunningham's career have looked like if he wasn't jammed into a "traditional" offense?

THe NFL has for almost all of its history taken the position that #1 is the correct and ONLY explanation. We hear how there are so few QBs etc etc etc. Sorry. I don't buy it. The NFL needs to evaluate and coach the position better. That's the bottom line.

I'm going to look at games started, completion percentage, ability to make quick and correct decisions, ball placement, and some aspect of attitude (which is also a moving target - NFL teams would make excuses for a serial killer if he could ball). It needs to be stated over and over again that all "spread" and "shotgun" systems are not created equal. There are more than a few that ask their QBs to make presnap evaluations, progress through reads, and other skills that are readily transferable to an NFL setting. Granted, there are NCAA systems that don't ask kids to do that either. So some evaluation of the system beyond "He played in a spread system and therefore can't handle the NFL!" also needs to be undertaken.

Unfortunately, too much of this reads like some fanboy defense of Mayfield. And it really isn't. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about Mayfield. In the same vein I am not sure that Rosen is the unquestioned "slam-dunk" that most make him out to be. Sure he looks the part, but that is no guarantee. What about his stats under pressure? Hint, they are not good! (https://twitter.com/pff_steve/status/772873799322705924) What about his high INT rate in the red zone? (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/nfl-draft-comparison-how-josh-rosen-can-eclipse-top-pick-jared-goffs-college-career/) Or should he just be drafted #2 overall because he is tall and played in a pro-set?

[Steeldude]

Yes. Height is a measurable for a QB. There is such a thing as too short or too tall. Mayfield will have his issues due to his height. Let me go on record with you and tell you, I do not necessarily want Mayfield as a Steeler. I do however, believe he is an upgrade over what is currently playing behind Ben. There are QBs in this draft that I would take over Mayfield. FOR THE STEELERS. The blanket statement that a player cannot make it in football because of measurable, or a system he played in college, or because he reminds you of another person, is what I was ranting on. Offer your opinion, give reasons for your opinion, and we can discuss. Just a "he's a bust", he's just another 'name here'", or the system he played in doesn't work in the NFL, simply means there is no discussion, mind id made up. The point of a forum is to discuss. Not referring to you specifically, referring to the "this guy only, everyone else sucks" posters.


The blanket statement that a player cannot make it in football because of measurable, or a system he played in college, or because he reminds you of another person

And no one said Mayfield couldn't make it in the NFL or any other QB prospect. I believe I posted that twice.


Offer your opinion, give reasons for your opinion, and we can discuss

I already gave reasons as to why the Steelers should not draft Mayfield...

Short
Played in shotgun only (No experience at all under center)
Spread offense (Most of his passes were to wide open receivers. He just lobbed it up.)
Poor mechanics
Tends to hold the ball too long
Immature attitude

Unless you feel none of those things matter when evaluating a QB.

I would be looking to draft BR's replacement, not a replacement for Landry. Mayfield is too much of a project to be taken in the first round. There are far greater needs(S, CB, LB, TE).

Why did you dislike Manziel?

[86WARD]

Like Deshuan Watson?

Or like Dak?

[Born2Steel]

Are you stating a QB draft opinion based upon QB completion percentage in College? Do you know who the top 5 QB's are in College Completion Percentage?

1. Colt Brennan 2005-2007 Hawaii...70.39%
2. Colt McCoy 2006-2009 Texas ...70.33%
3. Kellen Moore 2008-2011 Boise St... 69.78%
4. Graham Harrell 2005-2008 Texas Tech...69.77%
5. Brandon Weeden 2008-2011 Okla. St....69.54%

I guess there is no doubt they can play the position. BTW;

11. Baker Mayfield 2013-2017 Okla........68.54%

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-cmp-pct-player-career.html

This is one of the "Mayfield is not an NFL QB posters".

You know who is NOT on that list of failed QBs? Baker Mayfield. Because Colt McCoy had a similar comp%, and is a career backup, means Mayfield will suffer the same fate? Is that the point of this?
I said, Mayfield has had a comp% around 70% for 3 consecutive years, as a response to how terrible his mechanics are. Those bad mechanics obviously do not equate to bad QB play. 70% is pretty damn good by all standards. Comp% is not the tell all by any means otherwise that list would look a lot different. I never said Mayfield was a sure thing either. I am saying he deserves a chance to show what he can do before you, and others, say he's a bust.

[Born2Steel]

And no one said Mayfield couldn't make it in the NFL or any other QB prospect. I believe I posted that twice.



I already gave reasons as to why the Steelers should not draft Mayfield...

Short
Played in shotgun only (No experience at all under center)
Spread offense (Most of his passes were to wide open receivers. He just lobbed it up.)
Poor mechanics
Tends to hold the ball too long
Immature attitude

Unless you feel none of those things matter when evaluating a QB.

I would be looking to draft BR's replacement, not a replacement for Landry. Mayfield is too much of a project to be taken in the first round. There are far greater needs(S, CB, LB, TE).

Why did you dislike Manziel?

Why did I dislike Manziel? Simple. I watched him play at Texas A&M. I did not think he was suited for what the Steelers need at the QB position. I voted NO on Johnny Football as a draft prospect. I never said he couldn't play in the league and would automatically bust just because I didn't like what he did or who he was.

Mayfield, who we were discussing, has actually dropped a few spots on my own QB chart after the Georgia game. He played a pretty good game overall, but once the Georgia defense started getting hits on him, his accuracy fell noticeably. I think he started hearing the footsteps. You cannot play scared in the NFL. I dropped him a few spots due to that, but that doesn't mean I think he will "bust".

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This is one of the "Mayfield is not an NFL QB posters".

You know who is NOT on that list of failed QBs? Baker Mayfield. Because Colt McCoy had a similar comp%, and is a career backup, means Mayfield will suffer the same fate? Is that the point of this?
I said, Mayfield has had a comp% around 70% for 3 consecutive years, as a response to how terrible his mechanics are. Those bad mechanics obviously do not equate to bad QB play. 70% is pretty damn good by all standards. Comp% is not the tell all by any means otherwise that list would look a lot different. I never said Mayfield was a sure thing either. I am saying he deserves a chance to show what he can do before you, and others, say he's a bust.

Can you tell me how many passes that Mayfield completed in the Rose Bowl were due to misdirection college offense, where his receiver was open due to the play design and how many he stood in the pocket and completed between a CB-Safety window? Just because a college QB completes a lot of passes, doesn't mean that they were good throws that are worthy of NFL level of play.

BTW, I am not a "Baker Mayfield is not an NFL Poster". You can continue to post mis-truths if it makes you feel better, but that is not reality.

I am of the belief that Mayfield will need time to progress to being a comfortable NFL pocket passer, as when he sets his feet, squares up and throws he has a compact delivery with good velocity on intermediate passes. I think when he gets the footwork and mechanics of a NFL offense down that he reminds me of the skillset of Bruce Gradkowski more than Drew Brees. That being said, his personal antics and actions look like somebody that is immature or more impulsive than intelligent, so that rarely ends up lasting long in the NFL and those concerns make me think teams will move on from his antics around his 5th season in the NFL.

So, I believe that I see the skillset of 9 year NFL veteran Bruce Gradkowski, but with the cockiness, swagger and lack of emotional intelligence/self awareness of Ryan Leaf or Johnny Manziel. I believe the interviews pre draft with Mayfield will tell teams what kind of attitude and maturity he has. Somebody will draft him because of his resume and talent, but I just have faith that it will not be the Steelers.

- - - Updated - - -



Mayfield, who we were discussing, has actually dropped a few spots on my own QB chart after the Georgia game. ".

I think its awesome that you have your own QB chart. :thumbsup:

[Mojouw]

Can you tell me how many passes that Mayfield completed in the Rose Bowl were due to misdirection college offense, where his receiver was open due to the play design and how many he stood in the pocket and completed between a CB-Safety window? Just because a college QB completes a lot of passes, doesn't mean that they were good throws that are worthy of NFL level of play.

I think that is why a lot of this discussion is too early in the process. Just because Mayfield's offensive system didn't ask him to make a certain type of throw does not necessarily mean that he can' t make it. Same for any kid really.

I hate to keep springing to Mayfield's defense, but he seems to be the most divisive prospect so far and the entrenched QB assumptions are really coming out in the back and forth on this one guy.

I know that exceptions prove the rule and all that, but I just hate all the preconceived notions that the football world throws around about draft picks each year. And teams wonder why they have holes on their rosters. How much of that is self-inflicted wounds do to an inability to see past the typical "blueprint" for a position?

Mike Hilton suddenly got really good at football this year? Alex Collins just got explosive?

[Born2Steel]

Can you tell me how many passes that Mayfield completed in the Rose Bowl were due to misdirection college offense, where his receiver was open due to the play design and how many he stood in the pocket and completed between a CB-Safety window? Just because a college QB completes a lot of passes, doesn't mean that they were good throws that are worthy of NFL level of play.

BTW, I am not a "Baker Mayfield is not an NFL Poster". You can continue to post mis-truths if it makes you feel better, but that is not reality.

I am of the belief that Mayfield will need time to progress to being a comfortable NFL pocket passer, as when he sets his feet, squares up and throws he has a compact delivery with good velocity on intermediate passes. I think when he gets the footwork and mechanics of a NFL offense down that he reminds me of the skillset of Bruce Gradkowski more than Drew Brees. That being said, his personal antics and actions look like somebody that is immature or more impulsive than intelligent, so that rarely ends up lasting long in the NFL and those concerns make me think teams will move on from his antics around his 5th season in the NFL.

So, I believe that I see the skillset of 9 year NFL veteran Bruce Gradkowski, but with the cockiness, swagger and lack of emotional intelligence/self awareness of Ryan Leaf or Johnny Manziel. I believe the interviews pre draft with Mayfield will tell teams what kind of attitude and maturity he has. Somebody will draft him because of his resume and talent, but I just have faith that it will not be the Steelers.

- - - Updated - - -



I think its awesome that you have your own QB chart. :thumbsup:

I have had a running 'college football QB chart' all season. It's posted on this forum for all to see. Feel free to add your own thoughts as long as they are part of the discussion.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Just because Mayfield's offensive system didn't ask him to make a certain type of throw does not necessarily mean that he can' t make it. ?

I agree, but the assertion is because he had a 68% completion percentage, that he can somehow be a NFL QB and should be drafted early.

When I look at college QB games, videos, highlights, etc. I look at the throws they make where the WR is open in space and just skip over them, because not many times will an NFL WR be that wide open. Its why the career college completion percentage list is full of dozens of guys that never were good in the NFL, because a lot of college defenses and gimmick offenses lend themselves to playing pitch and catch. Easier to pad the stats in college....but in the NFL, almost everybody was on scholarship and has elite speed on defense.

[Mojouw]

I agree, but the assertion is because he had a 68% completion percentage, that he can somehow be a NFL QB and should be drafted early.

When I look at college QB games, videos, highlights, etc. I look at the throws they make where the WR is open in space and just skip over them, because not many times will an NFL WR be that wide open. Its why the career college completion percentage list is full of dozens of guys that never were good in the NFL, because a lot of college defenses and gimmick offenses lend themselves to playing pitch and catch. Easier to pad the stats in college....but in the NFL, almost everybody was on scholarship and has elite speed on defense.

Definitely! I kinda figure college completion % is best used as a lower limit. In other words, I need to see a guy complete 60+% of his college passes before I'm even really interested.

[Born2Steel]

I agree, but the assertion is because he had a 68% completion percentage, that he can somehow be a NFL QB and should be drafted early.

When I look at college QB games, videos, highlights, etc. I look at the throws they make where the WR is open in space and just skip over them, because not many times will an NFL WR be that wide open. Its why the career college completion percentage list is full of dozens of guys that never were good in the NFL, because a lot of college defenses and gimmick offenses lend themselves to playing pitch and catch. Easier to pad the stats in college....but in the NFL, almost everybody was on scholarship and has elite speed on defense.

IMO, the assertion is that accuracy(let's use 68%) PLUS consistency(3 consecutive seasons) equals a top tier QB prospect.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

IMO, the assertion is that accuracy(let's use 68%) PLUS consistency(3 consecutive seasons) equals a top tier QB prospect.

OK, so consistent accuracy over a college career that may be 2, 3 and rarely 4 years of starting. Have a look at this list of college QB's and their career completion percentages and you see that accuracy + consistency comparison. BTW,

-Mayfield is #11, -
-Colt Brennan is #1
Colt McCoy is #2, -
-Kellen Moore is #3
-Brandon Weeden is #5
-Case Keenum is #6
-Johnny Manziel is #9
-Bruce Gradkowski is #14
-Blake Bortles is #49,
-Ben Roethilisberger is #50
-Kirk Cousins is #87
-Landry Jones is #99
-Dak Prescott is #133
-Brice Petty is #135
-Peyton Manning is #199
-John Elway #166
-Vince Young #182
-Josh Dobbs #202
-Drew Brees #221
- Eli Manning#239
-Russell Wilson #237
- Josh Rosen #240

[Mojouw]

OK, so consistent accuracy over a college career that may be 2, 3 and rarely 4 years of starting. Have a look at this list of college QB's and their career completion percentages and you see that accuracy + consistency comparison. BTW,

-Mayfield is #11, -
-Colt Brennan is #1
Colt McCoy is #2, -
-Kellen Moore is #3
-Brandon Weeden is #5
-Case Keenum is #6
-Johnny Manziel is #9
-Bruce Gradkowski is #14
-Blake Bortles is #49,
-Ben Roethilisberger is #50
-Kirk Cousins is #87
-Landry Jones is #99
-Dak Prescott is #133
-Brice Petty is #135
-Peyton Manning is #199
-John Elway #166
-Vince Young #182
-Josh Dobbs #202
-Drew Brees #221
- Eli Manning#239
-Russell Wilson #237
- Josh Rosen #240

But it can be useful if you use it as a limit or bench mark stat. I would like to see a college QB put up about 2 full years of at least60-65% before I am interested. For instance, Donovan McNabb and Eli Manning both "fail" that benchmark. While both had really damn good NFL careers, their biggest struggle was accuracy and shockingly enough - they didn't get all that better in the NFL!

Is it a hard and fast rule? Nope. Russell Wilson had one year of a good % and multiple years of a "bad" one -- he turned out to be pretty accurate in the NFL. But it is a start.

Much like everything else, it has to placed in a context and supplemented with other evaluations - but it is still important.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

But it can be useful if you use it as a limit or bench mark stat. .

Do you think NFL talent evaluators set benchmark completion percentage stats before they look at QB prospects? Or do you think that is just something that fans like us do?

As my college stats prof said "statistically speaking the average human being has one testicle and one breast.....statistics can lie". IMO, film doesn't lie.

[Mojouw]

Do you think NFL talent evaluators set benchmark completion percentage stats before they look at QB prospects? Or do you think that is just something that fans like us do?

As my college stats prof said "statistically speaking the average human being has one testicle and one breast.....statistics can lie". IMO, film doesn't lie.

No idea. But the overall track record of the "scouting community" is such that I would not have any problem questioning their generalized approaches.

While I really don't think this is what you are saying at all, I hate the over-simplified adversarial relationship between "stats" and "film". The whole analytics is dumb and only real tape breakdown can understand football is too far one way and the reverse where stats attempt to replace the eye test is just as ridiculous.

Of course if I was a full-time football scout, I would break down every scrap of tape and game related information I could. Hell, I would watch a kid warm-up if I felt it could get me somewhere. But I would also look at some basic stats as well.

Since, despite the inordinate amount of time I spend on this message board, I am not a football scout and have other responsibilities and uses for my time, I use stats as a shortcut.

As to the film doesnt lie idea - sure it does. Which film gets watched? What does the watcher want to see? There is no such thing as a totally impartial observer. How many detailed tape breakdowns have been done that made someone or some team sure a guy was a "can't miss" player only to see him bust out?

I really do like the stats quote and the point is well taken and bears frequent repeating -- stats can deceive us and obscure relevant information. But that is more often than not the fault of the analyst not the stats themselves. Stats and other numerical measures of any phenomena are only as good as the person selecting the data and the tools to be used. For instance the scenario in your college prof's statement (not meant to disparage them - they sound great!), is a bet of an artificial dodge. It ignores essential information that we already know to be true - human beings are divided into two basic types and have different anatomical bits based on those types. So the stat (one breast and one testicle) is wrong because the starting premise is wrong (all human beings are the same).

All I am saying is that if the NFL evaluation folks keep putting nonsense parameters into the "magic evaluation machine" then they will continue to get flawed and incomplete analysis out every time.

[Born2Steel]

OK, so consistent accuracy over a college career that may be 2, 3 and rarely 4 years of starting. Have a look at this list of college QB's and their career completion percentages and you see that accuracy + consistency comparison. BTW,

-Mayfield is #11, -
-Colt Brennan is #1
Colt McCoy is #2, -
-Kellen Moore is #3
-Brandon Weeden is #5
-Case Keenum is #6
-Johnny Manziel is #9
-Bruce Gradkowski is #14
-Blake Bortles is #49,
-Ben Roethilisberger is #50
-Kirk Cousins is #87
-Landry Jones is #99
-Dak Prescott is #133
-Brice Petty is #135
-Peyton Manning is #199
-John Elway #166
-Vince Young #182
-Josh Dobbs #202
-Drew Brees #221
- Eli Manning#239
-Russell Wilson #237
- Josh Rosen #240

What is the point of this list? Out of 'every QB ever', Mayfield ranks #11 'all time' in accuracy plus consistency? Really? He's done better than I have given him credit for.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

What is the point of this list? Out of 'every QB ever', Mayfield ranks #11 'all time' in accuracy plus consistency? Really? He's done better than I have given him credit for.

The point is that there really is no correlation that college accuracy plus consistency leads to successful NFL QB play. I don't know why it is such a key part of your evaluation of Mayfield.

The top 5 on the list are arguably busts, backups or never was....while there are 3 SB winning QB's and 2 possible HOF's that rank below #200 on the list.

[Born2Steel]

The point is that there really is no correlation that college accuracy plus consistency leads to successful NFL QB play. I don't know why it is such a key part of your evaluation of Mayfield.

The top 5 on the list are arguably busts, backups or never was....while there are 3 SB winning QB's and 2 possible HOF's that rank below #200 on the list.

Out of 'ALL TIME' the top 200 is incredible! The top 10 would be insanely good, and you have Mayfield sitting at #11. Your list is obviously not what you are calling it to be.

Here's Mayfield's coach's opinion, for what it's worth.
http://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/sports/college/story/2018/jan/07/riley-mayfield-among-all-time-greatest-qbs/707666/

[teegre]

I heard a draftnik (Mike Lombardi? Bucky Brooks?) talking about how he used completion percentage as a quick barometer:

above 60% - check the box, continue eval
below 60% - avoid

[Mojouw]

I heard a draftnik (Mike Lombardi? Bucky Brooks?) talking about how he used completion percentage as a quick barometer:

above 60% - check the box, continue eval
below 60% - avoid

Thank you! That's what I've been trying to say!

[Steelerette]

I don't feel like Baker Mayfield's game will translate well to the pros, but it might, and he has too much in his favor to simply dismiss - that's why he's going to be a first round draft pick. Time will tell whether it shakes out. QB is the one position that's so important that someone who's shown as much as he has, someone's going to go and draft him high. It will depend on what team/system he goes to, just as much as how good he actually turns out to be. Me I wouldn't draft him - I'd draft Allen or Jackson or Rudolph. But that doesn't mean he has no draft value.

[teegre]

Here’s my newest plan (a variation of my original plan):

2018 & 2019: surround Dobbs with as much talent as possible. If he fails, we’ll have a high draft pick in 2020... and, we draft Jake Fromm (Georgia).

[pczach]

Here’s my newest plan (a variation of my original plan):

2018 & 2019: surround Dobbs with as much talent as possible. If he fails, we’ll have a high draft pick in 2020... and, we draft Jake Fromm (Georgia).



I'm really impressed with the amount of trust they have in Fromm as a true freshman to audible and change protections. You just don't see that much control given to any quarterback, let alone a freshman. He definitely has a lot going on between the ears.

What he's done so far tonight is very impressive. Particularly against a Nick Saban defense.

[Steelerette]

Here’s my newest plan (a variation of my original plan):

2018 & 2019: surround Dobbs with as much talent as possible. If he fails, we’ll have a high draft pick in 2020... and, we draft Jake Fromm (Georgia).
https://i.imgur.com/gCDgOF6.png

Dobby throws the ball to Jar Jar Smith-Schuster...

[Hawkman]

Of course he is a good player, he's a PA Boy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgjipKAy4U0

Thanks for the reel Shoes.