Paul Zeise: The Steelers need to sign Colin Kaepernick immediately

[polamalubeast]

The Steelers don’t have a healthy legitimate backup quarterback right now. That isn’t to suggest that rookie Josh Dobbs is a bust, it’s just clear he isn’t ready yet. And it is also clear he won’t be ready with a few more weeks of practice, either.

Dobbs has an interesting skill set, he has some natural talent and he has all the physical tools to be a good quarterback. Sunday, though, he showed yet again that his decision making is suspect, he isn’t terribly consistent with his throws and he still needs a lot of work on his footwork and fundamentals.

He is only starting and playing because backup quarterback Landry Jones is out with an abdominal injury. Jones is back practicing — sort of — but that is the kind of injury that could linger all season.






There is way too much on the line for the Steelers to gamble with their backup quarterback position. This is a team that is built to compete for a Super Bowl. As such, they need a legitimate backup quarterback who has proven he can win NFL games. Ben Roethlisberger has generally been durable but is getting old.


read more


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/zeise-is-right/2017/08/21/colin-kaepernick-steelers-sign-backup-quarterback-josh-dobbs-landry-jones-ben-roethlisberger/stories/201708210119

[Steeldude]

Why? I would have the punter take over the QB spot before ever signing that sack of....

[fansince'76]

Dobbs has an interesting skill set, he has some natural talent and he has all the physical tools to be a good quarterback. Sunday, though, he showed yet again that his decision making is suspect, he isn’t terribly consistent with his throws and he still needs a lot of work on his footwork and fundamentals.

Which are reasons 1 and 2 why Kaepernick still doesn't have a job...


There are many bad teams out there that need help at quarterback that have passed on Colin Kaepernick. He is a polarizing figure, whether you agree with him or not, and bad teams rightfully believe he isn’t worth the backlash because he isn’t good enough to significantly raise their profile as a team.

That’s different than the situation the Steelers are in as one of the best teams in the league. Kaepernick has already proven he can take a good team to the Super Bowl.

Sure, that's why Seattle passed on him. The bottom line is HE ISN'T A GOOD ENOUGH QB TO JUSTIFY THE BAGGAGE HE BRINGS, PERIOD. And he should have thought twice before he decided to try and become a SJW.

[RunNGun]

Don't want any player on this team that doesn't represent this country. Neither does James Harrison, so it's not going to happen, nor should it.

[Born2Steel]

:deadhorse:

[BlackAndGold]

Don't want any player on this team that doesn't represent this country. Neither does James Harrison, so it's not going to happen, nor should it.

Harrison doesn't care, he's on recorded saying "it's their right" if they want to sit.

[Edman]

he showed yet again that his decision making is suspect, he isn’t terribly consistent with his throws

One is a rookie quarterback who has room to grow and develop, doesn't cost much and doesn't have baggage attached to him.

The other basically already plateaued at this stage of his career, costs far more money, and brings a shitload of media baggage to himself and those around him.

Take your pick on who would you want the Steelers to hold on to.

[Mojouw]

Based on the current roster and who is available on the free agent marketplace - this is the most talented QB depth chart the Steelers could field:

Ben R.
Kaepernick
Dobber

I personally don't really care either way. If Ben R goes down for more than 3 games, the Steelers will struggle to make the post-season. If he goes down for the post-season, they won't win a SB.
So depending on what your goals as a fan and a team are -- you may or may not have really strong feelings on the QB depth chart.

[Dwinsgames]

my QB depth chart would be

Ben
Dobbs

or

Ben
Matt Schaub ( if Atlanta cuts him )
Dobbs

[Mojouw]

my QB depth chart would be

Ben
Dobbs

or

Ben
Matt Schaub ( if Atlanta cuts him )
Dobbs

Fair enough. I just can't shake how bad the last time we all saw Matt "pick six every time" Schaub throw in real NFL action.

Like I said in the preseason thread, I think the later cutdown deadline this season will mean less guys getting signed. You either make the team you went to camp with or you don't make a team. Very few players will be able to get on "the moving train" this late in the pre-season process.

[Dwinsgames]

Fair enough. I just can't shake how bad the last time we all saw Matt "pick six every time" Schaub throw in real NFL action.

Like I said in the preseason thread, I think the later cutdown deadline this season will mean less guys getting signed. You either make the team you went to camp with or you don't make a team. Very few players will be able to get on "the moving train" this late in the pre-season process.


100% agree , moving trains are tough ... but for a backup Veteran QB I could still see a market because well everyone hopes he never sees the field anyways

[Steeldude]

Here is mine QB depth chart if BR goes down


Landry
Dobbs
Anyone but Kaepernick and Vick

[86WARD]

Much rather have Jones and Donna than anything else suggested in this thread.

[LLT]

Keep him away from my team...I will watch 0 games if he puts on a Steelers jersey.

[steelreserve]

Is Kaepernick even prepared to play football in the first place? As far as I can tell, he's spent the entire offseason and a good part of last year's regular season marching around complaining about politics. Not to mention he was already known as a half-present, low-focus kind of guy even when he was winning games in San Francisco. If your mind is elsewhere to that extent, I have my doubts as to whether you'd be effective anyway, even if you were good.

Is he going to come in knowing the playbook and having practiced with the offense? Or would it be like Michael Vick, coming in at the last minute knowing like 10 plays and trying to wing it on instinct, to the tune of 40 passing yards a game?

All this on top of the obvious, which is that nobody likes him because he's a fuckball. I know the media are absolutely breaking their necks to try to get him a job and strike a blow for social justice, but here in the real world he's just a shitty quarterback with a shitty attitude, so no thanks. They all scream that he's being "blacklisted," but really it's just that 32 GMs are looking at the same exact thing and drawing the same exact conclusion that is obvious to everyone.

[AtlantaDan]

Seems like Paul Zeise at the Post-Gazette has been advised by his bosses at the Post-Gazette to get his page clicks up by posting ridiculous hot takes to stir readers up

If the Steelers lose this weekend in preseason week three maybe Zeise can submit a post that it is time for Tomlin to go and to bring back Cowher

[BlackAndGold]

Keep him away from my team...I will watch 0 games if he puts on a Steelers jersey.

What was your thoughts when James Harrison beat the shit out of his girlfriend?

Wanted to stop watching? Stop rooting for him?

[ALLD]

Paul Zeise needs a drug test.

[AtlantaDan]

What was your thoughts when James Harrison beat the shit out of his girlfriend?

Wanted to stop watching? Stop rooting for him?

Big difference - Harrison was coming off an 8.5 sack and second team All Pro 2007 season :coffee:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrJa23.htm#all_all_pro

"There is always room on TV for a man who can beat people to jelly in nine flat" - Hunter S. Thompson Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY

[BlackAndGold]

Big difference - Harrison was coming off an 8.5 sack and second team All Pro 2007 season :coffee:

https://media.giphy.com/media/1zSz5MVw4zKg0/giphy.gif
Basically "It's fine if you beat your girlfriend as long as you play well on the field." Holy f'n shit.

Kaepernick would be one of the better back up QB's in the league, hell, he produced for the 49ers as a starter even though they have been a shit show(front office) and rebuilding. Remember when the 49ers had a team with legit talent? He almost won the Super Bowl.

There is no doubt in my mind he can produce on another team, he would be a way better signing for Miami than Jay Cutler.

[Mojouw]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1zSz5MVw4zKg0/giphy.gif
Basically "It's fine if you beat your girlfriend as long as you play well on the field." Holy f'n shit.

Kaepernick would be one of the better back up QB's in the league, hell, he produced for the 49ers as a starter even though they have been a shit show(front office) and rebuilding.

There is no doubt in my mind he can produce on another team, he would be a way better signing for Miami than Jay Cutler.

While Kap may not be a good move for this roster -- there are at least 3 and as many as 5 starting spots he could be an improvement over and about twice as many back-up spots.

This is a league that is most likely going to start Bortles, Goff, Osweiler, and Glennon in Week 1. That doesn't even cover what horrid option the Jets eventually land on. We haven't even started to discuss the sad state of affairs that is the #2 spot across the league.

But the most important thing is to remember: ANGRY POLITICAL OPINION HERE!!!!! LOUD STATEMENT ABOUT SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE MEDIA!!!

[steelreserve]

What was your thoughts when James Harrison beat the shit out of his girlfriend?

Wanted to stop watching? Stop rooting for him?


IIRC, at the time the only thing clear was that he kicked down a door, and he wasn't directly accused or charged with anything, and it wasn't until years later that the whole story came out.

So that seems like a question asked for no other purpose than to elicit an answer that would either be auto-attacked or brushed off depending on what it is.

[Dwinsgames]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHxtUk8XkAEhj12.jpg:large

[AtlantaDan]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1zSz5MVw4zKg0/giphy.gif
Basically "It's fine if you beat your girlfriend as long as you play well on the field." Holy f'n shit.

Sorry my cynicism concerns you - are you saying that is not how the NFL operates?

I posted this last week in response to a discussion in the Marshawn Lynch thread of alleged threats to quit watching if players do not stand for the Star-Spangled Banner


Question, what would any fans do if one of the Steelers players sat or kneeled for the National Anthem? I know I would be done with pro football all together, my man/Steelers cave would be stripped and all stuff given away. They have a right to protest, I have a right to not watch and spend my money else where. Only exception would be is if the Steelers organization chastised said player and condemned his actions and he stood from that point forward, I might in that instance keep watching and keep the Steelers cave.

At least 99% of the fans would keep watching.

Do not recall any drop off in viewing habits or attendance when Ernie Holmes wounded a police officer while shooting at a police helicopter in the 70s and did not miss a down, the starting QB was accused of multiple sexual assaults, this happened to the 2008 defensive player of the year

Domestic violence charges were dropped Thursday against Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=pit) linebacker James Harrison (http://www.espn.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6314), who was arrested in early March after hitting his girlfriend.Allegheny County prosecutors announced the decision as a judge was preparing to open a preliminary hearing for Harrison on charges of simple assault and criminal mischief.

"He has entered domestic abuse counseling. The victim did not request any further restitution and the victim did not wish to pursue further prosecution," said Mike Manko, a spokesman for the district attorney.

Harrison told police he and Beth Tibbott were arguing on March 8, and then he broke through her bedroom door, slapped her in the face and snapped her cell phone in half.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3327255

and this happened to the receiver who caught the winning TD pass in SB XLIII

On June 19, 2006, in Franklin County, OH, Santonio Holmes was arrested (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/steelers/2006-06-19-holmes-second-arrest_x.htm) and charged with domestic violence and assault stemming from an alleged incident with the mother of one of his children. In a police report, LaShae Boone said (http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/2006/12/05/Domestic-violence-charges-dropped-against-Santonio-Holmes/stories/200612050147) that Holmes, "chok[ed her], [threw] her to the ground, grabb[ed] her arms, and slamm[ed] her into a door, leaving her with bruises, pain, and a torn shirt." Holmes pleaded not guilty (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2006/06/28/Counselor-saw-Holmes-trouble-coming/stories/200606280227) to the charges. Boone would not testify in court.

The charges were later dismissed (http://www.post-gazette.com/steelers/2006/12/05/Domestic-violence-charges-dropped-against-Santonio-Holmes/stories/200612050147) by a Franklin County Municipal Court judge after Holmes' two lawyers said that their client would participate in ongoing counseling offered through the NFL. In an interview with press after the hearing, Holmes said, "It doesn't mean anger management classes. It just means I needed someone else to talk with about all the situations and to get an understanding of what was going on."

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/9ae7p3/santonio-holmes-wide-receiver-accused-of-domestic-violence-and-assault

(https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/9ae7p3/santonio-holmes-wide-receiver-accused-of-domestic-violence-and-assault)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY

Fans including me (and including you?) cheered for Harrison, Roethlisberger, Santonio Holmes and Ernie Holmes (who may be before your time) after they engaged in conduct far more deplorable than failing to stand for the national anthem.

Virtually all fans quit cheering and teams cut a player loose only when the player quits producing for their team - I am not condoning it, just stating a fact.

Jerry Seinfeld put it well


https://vimeo.com/47283296

[Mojouw]

I just don't get what is so threatening about some one else believing and acting differently than what you believe?

An individual chose to protest in about the least confrontational manner possible, did not advocate violence or disobedience towards any individuals or groups, and did not demand anyone else participate.

How is that such a table banging mouth foaming angering issue?

Dude may or may not be knowledgeable on the issue(s) he has chosen to advocate for. Personally, I stopped listening a long time ago. I suspect that I know far more about the particular issues than Kaepernick does. Plus, for me, if you don't vote - you can't complain.

All that being said, I could give a crap what his political views are if he would help the team win ballgames.

[steelreserve]

I just don't get what is so threatening about some one else believing and acting differently than what you believe?

An individual chose to protest in about the least confrontational manner possible, did not advocate violence or disobedience towards any individuals or groups, and did not demand anyone else participate.

How is that such a table banging mouth foaming angering issue?

Dude may or may not be knowledgeable on the issue(s) he has chosen to advocate for. Personally, I stopped listening a long time ago. I suspect that I know far more about the particular issues than Kaepernick does. Plus, for me, if you don't vote - you can't complain.

All that being said, I could give a crap what his political views are if he would help the team win ballgames.


At least for me, I'm less disgusted with Kaepernick for his specific views than I am with him as the guy who dragged politics into a fucking football game.

Yes, you have a right to your opinion, but fuck you for polluting sports with it. That and video games were about the last two things you could do to just chill and be entertained without being bombarded with political bullshit constantly, and now one of them has been fucked up. Sports now has to have its share of Dead Serious with everyone's causes and social justice issues taking center stage. A lot of people are not happy about that.

Yes, I realize Kaepernick's not the first to do that, or the only one, and that he doesn't control all the media coverage ... but god damn, did he ever pick the one time when people were sick and tired of politics and feeling attacked on all sides by it, and it was going to make tempers flare. Sorry bro, wrong venue wrong time; now people hate you for it and they've got just as much right to that opinion as you do yours.

And no, it didn't help that the manner in which he protested, combined with the way he carries himself overall, resulted in his "protest" looking like an immature shitfit from some punk kid, not a poignant struggle.

[Mojouw]

At least for me, I'm less disgusted with Kaepernick for his specific views than I am with him as the guy who dragged politics into a fucking football game.

Yes, you have a right to your opinion, but fuck you for polluting sports with it. That and video games were about the last two things you could do to just chill and be entertained without being bombarded with political bullshit constantly, and now one of them has been fucked up. Sports now has to have its share of Dead Serious with everyone's causes and social justice issues taking center stage. A lot of people are not happy about that.

Yes, I realize Kaepernick's not the first to do that, or the only one, and that he doesn't control all the media coverage ... but god damn, did he ever pick the one time when people were sick and tired of politics and feeling attacked on all sides by it, and it was going to make tempers flare. Sorry bro, wrong venue wrong time; now people hate you for it and they've got just as much right to that opinion as you do yours.

And no, it doesn't help that the manner in which he protested, combined with the way he carries himself overall, resulted in his "protest" looking like an immature shitfit instead of a poignant struggle.

Fair enough. I find it super easy to tune most of the political stuff out - at least for sports. I've cut out sports radio and haven't missed it AT ALL. I stay off "popular" sports websites and comment threads (ESPN, SI, FOX, etc) and have not missed that either. And I haven't had cable for years - so no 24/7 nonsense programming.

[43Hitman]

Keep him away from my team...I will watch 0 games if he puts on a Steelers jersey.A-Freaking-Men :drink:

[Moose]

Oh HELL NO !! Fk that communistic piece of SHIT ! That's my opinion, just as he is entitled to his. But, as a veteran, anyone who disrespects my flag by sitting during the national anthem better be in a wheel chair.

[ALLD]

He would be a locker room cancer.

[Craic]

What was your thoughts when James Harrison beat the shit out of his girlfriend?

Wanted to stop watching? Stop rooting for him?

Not even close to being the same. James Harrison immediately returned to the place of the incident once the police were there, admitted his involvement, readily accepted the consequences (including counseling), and has never engaged in that behavior again. It was a one-time mistake. As much as I despise domestic violence, I also can appreciate a man who owns up to his actions and changes his ways immediately after.

K.? Yeah, not so much. He has no concept of the problems he brings teams because he wants to selfishly make an individual statement while representing a team. As was already said, leave the politics off the field of play. It doesn't belong there.

[steelreserve]

Fair enough. I find it super easy to tune most of the political stuff out - at least for sports. I've cut out sports radio and haven't missed it AT ALL. I stay off "popular" sports websites and comment threads (ESPN, SI, FOX, etc) and have not missed that either. And I haven't had cable for years - so no 24/7 nonsense programming.

I pretty much do the same, but at the same time I am less than pleased that "tuning out" the political bullshit means avoiding a majority of sports shows and websites entirely. It was much better when sports news sources were about sports, and social commentary only came up occasionally, such as when there was a major scandal involving a player, not every 30 seconds over everything.

[st33lersguy]

Here is a simple two part answer as to why Krapernick doesn't have a job.

1. He's garbage. He has been a bad QB for at least 2 years now, probably 3. He can't read defenses, doesn't put in the work, is inaccurate, never was anything more than a slightly above average QB who barely topped 3,000 yards and 20 TDs with a great supporting cast at his best, and the one thing he did have going for him ever in his career, his speed/mobility may be diminishing at age 30. So yeah, let's not inflate the man's supposed ability

To this people will reply "BU BU BUT, UTHER KORTERBACKS WHO SUK HAV JOBS"

Which brings me to to the 2nd part which ties in to the first

2. He's a walking media circus that would bring too much attention and press to an NFL teams that the other shitty QBs don't. Do you really want to bring a media circus and also overpay for a guy who isn't any good? Of course not. Which is also why it would be wise for the Steelers to stay far away from him

[Born2Steel]

I compare things like this....Kap is better than Jones as a QB. Kap is a better QB than Dobbs. Until Harbaugh left and Tomsula completed his coup, Kap was a very good starter at SF. Anyone think Kelley is a personnel genuis?

I think Kap is a good QB. I think he could come cheap, especially at this point after he's been snubbed repeatedly this offseason. The demand simply is not there for him.

Flip side, he has agreed to stand for the anthem before games. Agree with him or not, he took a stance. Who better to show him the other side of that stance than AV, and the Rooneys?

I get it that people are angry with him for sitting during the national anthem, I do get that, and I don't disagree with that anger. However, this is football. If you believe Kap should keep his politics out of football, start by removing yours first. What is there to lose?

[polamalubeast]

Kaepernick would be a great backup, but it would have too much distraction.

But the 2012 season was the only time that Kaepernick was very good and it was because nobody knew him and the read option was new at that time.

The Packers also did a good job of making Kaepernick a superstar every time the 49ers played against them in 2012 and 2013.

[Shoes]

No way Art takes this shit boot on his team.

[AtlantaDan]

I compare things like this....Kap is better than Jones as a QB.

Others disagree - excerpts below from this article by Andy Benoit at SI.com earlier this summer

First off, what you’re about to read has zero to do with Colin Kaepernick’s protest of the National Anthem. For proof, here’s an article that I wrote in March 2016 (http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/02/colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-rg3-trade-future), before the protest, saying that Kaepernick would be out of the NFL before he won another 10 games as a starter.

That forecast appears to be coming true, because Kaepernick can’t even find work as a backup. And it’s mostly due to the same reason he couldn’t find work as a starter: teams don’t think he’s good enough....

Let me amend myself—there are actually 15 backup quarterbacks better than Kaepernick, and that doesn’t even include rookies Mitchell Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, DeShone Kizer and Davis Webb.

The list, in no particular order:

The list, in no particular order:

Jimmy Garoppolo, Patriots
Matt Moore, Dolphins
Colt McCoy, Washington
A.J. McCarron, Bengals
Chad Henne, Jaguars
Geno Smith, Giants
Drew Stanton, Cardinals
Brock Osweiler/Cody Kessler, Browns
Chase Daniel, Saints
Derek Anderson, Panthers
Nick Foles, Eagles
Ryan Mallett, Ravens
Matt Barkley, 49ers
Landry Jones, Steelers
Matt Cassel, Titans

Kaepernick is talented enough to be an NFL backup. In fact, I think he’s better than almost half of the backup QB in the league, but that’s it. With zero hesitation, I would take any of the 15 backups I listed before I’d take Kaepernick, because those 15 quarterbacks are all willing and able to play from the pocket....

Each backup has his own limitations, but none of them have an utter inability to operate on schedule and from the pocket, like Kaepernick does....

To sign Kaepernick, a team must be willing to take on the distraction that follows lightning rods. And the team must be willing to alter its entire offense (for worse). It’s not worth it, just like it wasn’t worth it a few years ago with Tim Tebow.

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/07/colin-kaepernick-backup-quarterbacks

[salamander]

No, the Steelers do NOT need to sign him. Whether you agree or disagree with him (I personally think he's an asshole) he would bring way too much of a media circus.

[steelreserve]

That's the other thing about Kaepernick that the SI guy nailed. He was successful in a certain kind of offense, and when he was later asked to be a traditional passer, he sucked. You either have to go all-in on that style of offense or nothing. Otherwise, as we learned with Vick, you don't get a backup QB who brings an exciting new dynamic to the offense, you get the same offense with a guy who struggles to run it.

Say what you will about Jim Harbaugh, but that guy was an offensive genius. Most teams are not going to be able to have an entire second offensive game plan for the backup QB that they can execute well. His was one of the few teams that could. In fact, the 49ers were already running an unorthodox field-position kind of offense to cover up the shortcomings of Alex Smith, so it was even more impressive that they kept their shit together.

I don't think a lot of teams have the capacity to pull that off. I certainly don't think our coaching staff is even in the mindset to attempt it. So basically we're left with - shitty quarterback with a shitty attitude.

[Mojouw]

I compare things like this....Kap is better than Jones as a QB. Kap is a better QB than Dobbs. Until Harbaugh left and Tomsula completed his coup, Kap was a very good starter at SF. Anyone think Kelley is a personnel genuis?

I think Kap is a good QB. I think he could come cheap, especially at this point after he's been snubbed repeatedly this offseason. The demand simply is not there for him.

Flip side, he has agreed to stand for the anthem before games. Agree with him or not, he took a stance. Who better to show him the other side of that stance than AV, and the Rooneys?

I get it that people are angry with him for sitting during the national anthem, I do get that, and I don't disagree with that anger. However, this is football. If you believe Kap should keep his politics out of football, start by removing yours first. What is there to lose?

Well said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteelerFanInStl]

What was your thoughts when James Harrison beat the shit out of his girlfriend?

Wanted to stop watching? Stop rooting for him?

James didn't "beat the shit out of his girlfriend". He hit her across the face with an open hand. It's not justified and shouldn't have happened but there's quite a big difference in what happened and what you're saying.

[teegre]

I saw Kaepernick hit the side of a barn once.

Once.

[st33lersguy]

I saw Kaepernick hit the side of a barn once.

Once.

Was he standing in the barn?

[RunNGun]

If you don't love it, leave it. I'm so sick of these attention whore players kneeling. Do they really believe they're making a statement? To me, the only message is f*** the police, as well as being a race thing. I will never support someone kneeling during the National Anthem. There's not a thing anyone can say to convince me otherwise.

[Dwinsgames]

If you don't love it, leave it. I'm so sick of these attention whore players kneeling. Do they really believe they're making a statement? To me, the only message is f*** the police, as well as being a race thing. I will never support someone kneeling during the National Anthem. There's not a thing anyone can say to convince me otherwise.


first part of that statement reminds me of this song and I honestly couldn't agree more ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIxBmyRQlwQ

[86WARD]

Kaepernick is not better than Goff. Goff throws a better ball the Kaepernick by far and has a better grasp of the position. kaeppeenick is a better athlete but Goff is a better QB prospect. Also the jury is still out of Kaepernick.

The other guys are all back up quality...as is Kaepernick. So in essence if it's not a major upgrade, why bother paying extra for little to no better output? It's not like Drew Brees or even Alex Smith are sitting out there where it would be a significant upgrade.

As for the Jets...they're in it to lose out...no doubt...they are battling the Bills for the #1 pick.

[Count Steeler]

Can he play tight end?

[SteelMayhem72]

If you don't love it, leave it. I'm so sick of these attention whore players kneeling. Do they really believe they're making a statement? To me, the only message is f*** the police, as well as being a race thing. I will never support someone kneeling during the National Anthem. There's not a thing anyone can say to convince me otherwise.

Amen brother...I concur!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[Nadroj 20]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1zSz5MVw4zKg0/giphy.gif
Basically "It's fine if you beat your girlfriend as long as you play well on the field." Holy f'n shit.

Kaepernick would be one of the better back up QB's in the league, hell, he produced for the 49ers as a starter even though they have been a shit show(front office) and rebuilding. Remember when the 49ers had a team with legit talent? He almost won the Super Bowl.

There is no doubt in my mind he can produce on another team, he would be a way better signing for Miami than Jay Cutler.

Gase worked with Cutler in Chicago and even if he hadn't I'd take Jay Cutler over Kaepernick 10 times out of 10 regardless of Kaps stance.

[Born2Steel]

Gase worked with Cutler in Chicago and even if he hadn't I'd take Jay Cutler over Kaepernick 10 times out of 10 regardless of Kaps stance.

I would also take Cutler over Kap. To me, it's about fielding the BEST football team.

[Mojouw]

I pretty much do the same, but at the same time I am less than pleased that "tuning out" the political bullshit means avoiding a majority of sports shows and websites entirely. It was much better when sports news sources were about sports, and social commentary only came up occasionally, such as when there was a major scandal involving a player, not every 30 seconds over everything.

I hear ya. Problem for me is that whenever I do tune in to ESPN or the NFL network, I am hoping for detailed coverage of NFL tactics, strategy, rumored player movement, etc. Instead all I get is "TMZ NFL". Updates on who Tweeted what at who. Which player has a new high-profile girlfriend. Armchair psychoanalysis of cliched soundbites from prominent player and coach press conferences. Breathless coverage of media driven "feuds" between players and coaches or players and players. I could go on.

There is like 5 minutes of actual football coverage/news every 60 minutes of programming. Throw in the political commentary and I don't even understand why anyone would watch...

In contrast, I caught a solid hour of the MLB network in the airport the other week. They had a few highlight packages, a long segment with a detailed breakdown on why that rookie who looks like a leprechaun from teh Dodgers hits for so much power, an interesting retrospective on Dusty Baker, and then another segment on pitch framing. That's good sports tv right there.

[steelreserve]

I hear ya. Problem for me is that whenever I do tune in to ESPN or the NFL network, I am hoping for detailed coverage of NFL tactics, strategy, rumored player movement, etc. Instead all I get is "TMZ NFL". Updates on who Tweeted what at who. Which player has a new high-profile girlfriend. Armchair psychoanalysis of cliched soundbites from prominent player and coach press conferences. Breathless coverage of media driven "feuds" between players and coaches or players and players. I could go on.

There is like 5 minutes of actual football coverage/news every 60 minutes of programming. Throw in the political commentary and I don't even understand why anyone would watch...

In contrast, I caught a solid hour of the MLB network in the airport the other week. They had a few highlight packages, a long segment with a detailed breakdown on why that rookie who looks like a leprechaun from teh Dodgers hits for so much power, an interesting retrospective on Dusty Baker, and then another segment on pitch framing. That's good sports tv right there.

No joke. The entire thing has been dumbed down to the point of being some vapid reality TV/soap opera time filler. It's like they're more interested in getting you tuned in to the drama surrounding the players off the field than on the game itself. Who knows, maybe that appeals to some people, makes them feel "closer" to the game or the players or something. It certainly seems to fit with the groupie-driven mentality that is being pushed relentlessly in every form of entertainment.

MLB and hockey. Those are the ones that still act as if they're running a sports competition first and a packaged entertainment "Experience" second, and act accordingly. I think it's no coincidence that they are the ones that have a little bit of a tougher "sell" than basketball and football to draw people in - they don't get the automatic lowest-common-denominator audience as a backstop - so they work hard at selling the sport, not the bullshit.

[AtlantaDan]

No joke. The entire thing has been dumbed down to the point of being some vapid reality TV/soap opera time filler. It's like they're more interested in getting you tuned in to the drama surrounding the players off the field than on the game itself. Who knows, maybe that appeals to some people, makes them feel "closer" to the game or the players or something. It certainly seems to fit with the groupie-driven mentality that is being pushed relentlessly in every form of entertainment.

The problem is that ESPN's non-live game programming was built around SportsCenter running scores and game highlights - I am old enough to remember in the pre-internet days that if you wanted scores in the evening before SportsCenter came on you had to watch the crawl across the bottom of the screen on what was then CNN Headline News (another programming concept that the internet killed)

Since anyone who wants highlights can now go online whenever they want ESPN has to figure out what draws viewers - given that ESPN axed a number of reporters this year the choice for now is talking heads over sports news.

[Moose]

If you believe Kap should keep his politics out of football, start by removing yours first. What is there to lose?

The problem is, my friend, this isn't politics. It's disrespect to our country in general. I could care less if the buffoon is a Republican or Democrat, hell I understand he didn't even vote....LOL, there is a statement in itself. I would venture to say he couldn't name a politician, senator, congressman of even his state. He's just a spoiled punk that can't make a name for himself by his play so he has to do it with his stupidity and disrespectful actions. Fk 'em.

- - - Updated - - -


If you don't love it, leave it. I'm so sick of these attention whore players kneeling. Do they really believe they're making a statement? To me, the only message is f*** the police, as well as being a race thing. I will never support someone kneeling during the National Anthem. There's not a thing anyone can say to convince me otherwise.

AMEN my Friend !! I stand with you !

[Mojouw]

I mean any position on this issue is by definition political. There are numerous veterans, both individuals and groups, that support Kaepernick's stance (https://www.google.com/search?q=veterans+in+support+of+colin+kaepernick&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8). That is a political belief about what their service meant to/for them. Just as I am sure there are vets and veterans groups that do not support Kaepernick's decision. Which, is again, a political stance. Although, oddly enough Google was not forthcoming with many results on that search. Interesting...

I am by no means saying anyone has to agree, like, or even give a shit about what this dude has to say. But every response is a political response - like it or not.

Remember, this is the same league that got in a bit of PR trouble for funneling government dollars to the league and franchises for all those fancy flag ceremonies and fly-overs. The NFL's displays of patriotism are bought and paid for by our tax dollars. Which, is one hell of a political statement by the league and owners.

[Mojouw]

The problem is that ESPN's non-live game programming was built around SportsCenter running scores and game highlights - I am old enough to remember in the pre-internet days that if you wanted scores in the evening before SportsCenter came on you had to watch the crawl across the bottom of the screen on what was then CNN Headline News (another programming concept that the internet killed)

Since anyone who wants highlights can now go online whenever they want ESPN has to figure out what draws viewers - given that ESPN axed a number of reporters this year the choice for now is talking heads over sports news.

Yeah. I remember both of those things. Video killed the radio star and internet killed decent information based television.

[vasteeler]

I couldn't care less about his antics but understand why some of you do. He is just not a good QB.

[Moose]

OK Admins....time to remove this piece of shit thread....just my opinion.

[BurghBoy412]

Let's all talk politics on a football forum. Yippee!!!

[Mojouw]

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/14/16058454/colin-kaepernick-film-breakdown-free-agency

Interesting take on the (mostly) football side of things.

[polamalubeast]

LeSean McCoy: Colin Kaepernick not talented enough for distraction

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/lesean-mccoy-colin-kaepernick-not-talented-enough-distraction

[GBMelBlount]

More than 1,000 people crowded the steps of the NFL's midtown Manhattan offices on Wednesday to demand Kaepernick be signed by a team before the start of the season next month.

What the...?

[43Hitman]

What the...?
Social Justice has found the NFL.....we're fucking doomed.

[86WARD]

What the...?

If you guys want to come out to Heinz Field on Monday, I'll be holding a rally for Darrelle Revis.

[Mojouw]

If you guys want to come out to Heinz Field on Monday, I'll be holding a rally for Darrelle Revis.

Only if we can also have a small candlelight vigil for Gary Barnidge.

[teegre]

If you guys want to come out to Heinz Field on Monday, I'll be holding a rally for Darrelle Revis.

Post. Of. The. Month!!!

[zulater]

Only if we can also have a small candlelight vigil for Gary Barnidge.

I'm down with that!

On Kaepernick. I know his stats look good from last season but how much of his production came in garbage time? Similar to Blake Bortles in 2015 it seems to me that a lot of Kaep's numbers were built long after the game's outcome was decided.

[AtlantaDan]

If you guys want to come out to Heinz Field on Monday, I'll be holding a rally for Darrelle Revis.

Social Justice for those accused of assault on the South Side?

Justice for Darrelle! Justice for Peezy! Fight The Power!

[43Hitman]

Social Justice for those accused of assault on the South Side?

Justice for Darrelle! Justice for Peezy! Fight The Power!:rofl2:

[Born2Steel]

If the Broncos cut Chad Kelley, do we pick him up for PS?

[polamalubeast]

If the Broncos cut Chad Kelley, do we pick him up for PS?


We can't, unless the Broncos do not sign him in their PS.

[Mojouw]

If the Broncos cut Chad Kelley, do we pick him up for PS?

Looks like he goes to IR.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/12217/chad-kelly

[Dwinsgames]

We can't, unless the Broncos do not sign him in their PS.

once cut ( but isn't relevant here now since he is going to IR ) they have to clear waivers before being added to a PS and at that point they are free to sign with whomever they want ... that is the danger in cutting a player otherwise it would just be a reduction of status and moved to PS

- - - Updated - - -

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIF41kUUAAEDvZT.jpg:large

[st33lersguy]

Kaepernick's main problem is he isn't a good QB and isn't worth the distraction he will cause

Of course I find it comical that moron liberals apparently with nothing better to do (75% of whom I'm sure don't even watch football and probably can't name another QB aside from Kaepernick and maybe Tom Brady), act like Kaepernick is only out of a job for daring to stand up to black people and then are practically demanding that an NFL team overpay to bring him in at his asking price then curtail the offense to fit his extremely limited skillset simply for the fact that Kaepernick took a knee, wore socks calling cops pigs, and wearing a Castro shirt.

[Born2Steel]

I think there is a confusion here. Kap didn't KNEEL for the flag out of disrespect for vets or America. He was kneeling to bring attention to a real issue. Disagree with his method of protest, but stop confusing his reason for it. Many will say his reason doesn't matter, you stand for the anthem no matter what. That is the right of every American. Non-violent protest to bring a voice for those that don't get heard. In case nobody noticed I'll refresh the page. Protests went on for months, with crowds of people stopping traffic, shutting down business districts, school sit-ins, boycotts, etc. There are people in THIS country that have to constantly worry about their child being killed by the police for non-capitol offenses. I have family on the city police force so don't think I don't get it. When a teenage kid gets shot by a full grown, specially trained, law enforcement officer for mouthing off and walking away, there's a serious problem. I agree that respecting those officers is high on the list of reasons for the problem, but it's not a capitol crime and a need for this permanent solution. I am a FIRM believer in capitol punishment for the committing of heinous, violent crimes. Kap's demonstration/protest was done in defense of those innocent of capitol crimes being killed where they stood, without so much as a preliminary trial, and no recourse on the killer. Boo him for his method, but it's unamerican, IMO, to condemn him for protesting within his rights. To me it's no different than the pro athletes that don't pledge to the flag based on religious beliefs. It's a conviction they feel and they are perfectly within their right to do that.

On the football side of things, Kap is still better than Dobbs or Jones as an NFL QB. If the Steelers bring him in, it's ONLY to upgrade the backup QB position, not a political statement of any kind.

[Mojouw]

I think there is a confusion here. Kap didn't KNEEL for the flag out of disrespect for vets or America. He was kneeling to bring attention to a real issue. Disagree with his method of protest, but stop confusing his reason for it. Many will say his reason doesn't matter, you stand for the anthem no matter what. That is the right of every American. Non-violent protest to bring a voice for those that don't get heard. In case nobody noticed I'll refresh the page. Protests went on for months, with crowds of people stopping traffic, shutting down business districts, school sit-ins, boycotts, etc. There are people in THIS country that have to constantly worry about their child being killed by the police for non-capitol offenses. I have family on the city police force so don't think I don't get it. When a teenage kid gets shot by a full grown, specially trained, law enforcement officer for mouthing off and walking away, there's a serious problem. I agree that respecting those officers is high on the list of reasons for the problem, but it's not a capitol crime and a need for this permanent solution. I am a FIRM believer in capitol punishment for the committing of heinous, violent crimes. Kap's demonstration/protest was done in defense of those innocent of capitol crimes being killed where they stood, without so much as a preliminary trial, and no recourse on the killer. Boo him for his method, but it's unamerican, IMO, to condemn him for protesting within his rights. To me it's no different than the pro athletes that don't pledge to the flag based on religious beliefs. It's a conviction they feel and they are perfectly within their right to do that.

On the football side of things, Kap is still better than Dobbs or Jones as an NFL QB. If the Steelers bring him in, it's ONLY to upgrade the backup QB position, not a political statement of any kind.

That says it all.

I might only add that have veterans not fought, bled, and died for every American's right to engage in non-violent protest in order to express their opinions and political viewpoints?

[Dwinsgames]

I think what is getting confused is " the right to do " and "the right thing to do " .....

easily confused but very different ....

if I find a wallet with no Identification I am under no obligation to say anything to anyone but that does not make it " the right thing to do " ....

if a blind person is trying to cross the street I am under no obligation to assist them but helping them is " the right thing to do "

if someone is on crutches and slow to get to the elevator I am under no obligation to hold the door but doing so is " the right thing to do "

if I see a man smacking a woman around on the street I am not bound to help her , but doing so " is the right thing to do "

we could go on and on ....

we may not be bound to do certain things in life but it does not absolve one from doing them if they want to do " the right thing" ..

standing for the flag and the anthem IS " the right thing to do "

peaceful UNPAID protests are fine but do them on your time not the employers , not the patrons of the game / event and to protest you do not have to stoop to the same level of disrespect as you are feeling or you are no better than the ones you're protesting

[st33lersguy]

It is his right to take a knee during the national anthem, wear socks calling cops pigs, and then without the slightest hint of irony wear a shirt honoring Castro, one of the biggest mass murderers of the 20th century.

It is also the right of other Americans to speak out against him, criticize him, and denounce what he does and says.

[Born2Steel]

It is his right to take a knee during the national anthem, wear socks calling cops pigs, and then without the slightest hint of irony wear a shirt honoring Castro, one of the biggest mass murderers of the 20th century.

It is also the right of other Americans to speak out against him, criticize him, and denounce what he does and says.

Exactly, and well put. Now, if you staged a peaceful demonstration outside of Kap's personal property and made a spectacle of yourself, that would be your right too. AND the right of others to sit back and judge that action as well. The question seems to be, should your job be at risk if your 'on the field' work is complete and done correctly ONLY because of that demonstration? I have zero issue with people saying they don't want a player because of his ability to play football.

- - - Updated - - -


I think what is getting confused is " the right to do " and "the right thing to do " .....

easily confused but very different ....

if I find a wallet with no Identification I am under no obligation to say anything to anyone but that does not make it " the right thing to do " ....

if a blind person is trying to cross the street I am under no obligation to assist them but helping them is " the right thing to do "

if someone is on crutches and slow to get to the elevator I am under no obligation to hold the door but doing so is " the right thing to do "

if I see a man smacking a woman around on the street I am not bound to help her , but doing so " is the right thing to do "

we could go on and on ....

we may not be bound to do certain things in life but it does not absolve one from doing them if they want to do " the right thing" ..

standing for the flag and the anthem IS " the right thing to do "

peaceful UNPAID protests are fine but do them on your time not the employers , not the patrons of the game / event and to protest you do not have to stoop to the same level of disrespect as you are feeling or you are no better than the ones you're protesting

NONE of these examples have anything to do with the rights in question.

[Mojouw]

I made no argument that one has to agree with, support, or even like Kaepernick's protest. But it needs to be acknowledged that he has a fundamental right to engage in that protest. That is protected. Just as much as I don't get people attempting to silence the protest, I also don't get the people who then want him to be insulated from consequences. I think he is better than about a third of the folks holding down #1 and #2 jobs in the league right now. But the exercise of his free speech rights have had consequences. Now, as long as those consequences stop short of the government trying to jail him or forcibly silence him - then what are you gonna do? Choices have consequences.

I personally do not feel that standing for the anthem and the flag is necessarily the right thing to do and a compulsory action all citizens need to partake in. I personally choose to stand and participate, but do not question when others do not. I have no idea what their lives and experiences have been or are like. A mile in someone else's shoes as they say...All that being said -- no one has to agree or like my viewpoint on the matter.

Finally, I have a really hard time getting all worked up about whether one guy or a group of guys stand up during the NFL's various patriotic displays. It has been well documented that those displays/ceremonies are bought and paid for by the US government, specifically the DOD. These are not spontaneous good citizen gestures by the league or its individual franchises. For the most part, at least post 2001 -- they are elaborately staged and choreographed events that would likely not exist without the external funding.

I think for me, it comes down to having a hard time that with all the screwed up stuff going on in our hometowns, our home states, our country, and the larger world around us that this is what people choose to get all worked up over. Did this protest change one persons opinion about anything one iota? Did it harm anyone in any way? Meanwhile, there have been a variety of events and decisions that have happened during this same time period that have actually deprived individuals of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, yet we (the broader faceless American electorate) don't seem to really give a crap about that. But a random guy didn't stand up for the anthem before an NFL game -- STOP EVERYTHING! I'm Outraged!

[Born2Steel]

I made no argument that one has to agree with, support, or even like Kaepernick's protest. But it needs to be acknowledged that he has a fundamental right to engage in that protest. That is protected. Just as much as I don't get people attempting to silence the protest, I also don't get the people who then want him to be insulated from consequences. I think he is better than about a third of the folks holding down #1 and #2 jobs in the league right now. But the exercise of his free speech rights have had consequences. Now, as long as those consequences stop short of the government trying to jail him or forcibly silence him - then what are you gonna do? Choices have consequences.

I personally do not feel that standing for the anthem and the flag is necessarily the right thing to do and a compulsory action all citizens need to partake in. I personally choose to stand and participate, but do not question when others do not. I have no idea what their lives and experiences have been or are like. A mile in someone else's shoes as they say...All that being said -- no one has to agree or like my viewpoint on the matter.

Finally, I have a really hard time getting all worked up about whether one guy or a group of guys stand up during the NFL's various patriotic displays. It has been well documented that those displays/ceremonies are bought and paid for by the US government, specifically the DOD. These are not spontaneous good citizen gestures by the league or its individual franchises. For the most part, at least post 2001 -- they are elaborately staged and choreographed events that would likely not exist without the external funding.

I think for me, it comes down to having a hard time that with all the screwed up stuff going on in our hometowns, our home states, our country, and the larger world around us that this is what people choose to get all worked up over. Did this protest change one persons opinion about anything one iota? Did it harm anyone in any way? Meanwhile, there have been a variety of events and decisions that have happened during this same time period that have actually deprived individuals of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, yet we (the broader faceless American electorate) don't seem to really give a crap about that. But a random guy didn't stand up for the anthem before an NFL game -- STOP EVERYTHING! I'm Outraged!

That says everything better than I can put it. Thanks.

[Mojouw]

That says everything better than I can put it. Thanks.

I don't know, I thought you said it pretty well in your own post.

Just nice to see that there is an actual conversation on the internet about an issue and no one has called anyone Hitler yet.

[Dwinsgames]

Exactly, and well put. Now, if you staged a peaceful demonstration outside of Kap's personal property and made a spectacle of yourself, that would be your right too. AND the right of others to sit back and judge that action as well. The question seems to be, should your job be at risk if your 'on the field' work is complete and done correctly ONLY because of that demonstration? I have zero issue with people saying they don't want a player because of his ability to play football.

- - - Updated - - -



NONE of these examples have anything to do with the rights in question.

you have to be able to see the forest through the trees ...


I said """"""""""""I think what is getting confused is " the right to do " and "the right thing to do " .....""""""""""

you may have the right to do something but it does not make it RIGHT

[Born2Steel]

you have to be able to see the forest through the trees ...


I said """"""""""""I think what is getting confused is " the right to do " and "the right thing to do " .....""""""""""

you may have the right to do something but it does not make it RIGHT

Yes. I know that. But choosing whether or not to be helpful to someone in need has no correlation.

[Dwinsgames]

Yes. I know that. But choosing whether or not to be helpful to someone in need has no correlation.

just have to be able to see the forest through those there trees over yonder

[j-d-s]

I'm sorry, but since when can you exercise your freedom of speech while at work? When you are at work, you are a representative of your employer, and therefore are not free to act as you please. I'm certain if some NFL player would do the Nazi salute during the national anthem nobody would say that he just exercised his freedom of speech.That being said, I would not sign Kaepernick, he is not worth the money he would probably ask for nor is he worth the media attention. If, god forbid, Ben suffers a long-term injury we can sign him, because at that point we are doomed anyway with guys like Landry as backup. We could literally sign any random guy off the street and he would do better than Landry.

[Born2Steel]

A more accurate comparison would be....when do you have the option of kneeling during the anthem at work?

[AtlantaDan]

A more accurate comparison would be....when do you have the option of kneeling during the anthem at work?

Agreed - since leaving high school I have not been in any mandatory group settings (I can elect to go to a football game/school or job not so much) that open with an obligatory display of patriotism

This fun fact regarding the "long term" practice that is the subject of ongoing controversy

It’s a tribute to the NFL’s ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn’t even standard practice....

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, "As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/nfl-teams-being-field-anthem-relatively-new-practice

[Dwinsgames]

the long and short of it all should be this from the NFL business perspective ...

viewership dictates TV deals , TV deals have a direct impact on profit and player salaries , cap numbers ...

viewrship down last year after protests began , viewership will continue to suffer as long as it happens ,,,

this was seen outside a Cleveland VFW this past week

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIP1sIgXoAAsaNx.jpg:large

[BurghBoy412]

Incredibly blown out of proportion! People need to f'ing relax.

[BurghBoy412]

the long and short of it all should be this from the NFL business perspective ...

viewership dictates TV deals , TV deals have a direct impact on profit and player salaries , cap numbers ...

viewrship down last year after protests began , viewership will continue to suffer as long as it happens ,,,

this was seen outside a Cleveland VFW this past week

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIP1sIgXoAAsaNx.jpg:largeI didn't know the NFL was a dictatorship. You don't honestly believe we should start taking people's freedoms away do you? Simply stop pointing a camera at these guys and the so called problem goes away. There are far more important issues in this World. Personally I would never sit during the anthem. That doesn't mean I have to become ferociously unaccepting of those who do the opposite.

[Mojouw]

Viewership being down has nothing to do with the protests. Here is a pretty solid breakdown on why the ONLY survey that attempted to put #'s to all this was so flawed that despite what Rovell says, it actually shows the opposite effect - most people watched MORE games. http://deadspin.com/how-to-mangle-a-survey-by-darren-rovell-1797307721

Viewership is down because people don't have cable. I watch portions or all of 2-3 games a week and since I watch none of them over traditional TV methods, my viewership doesn't count.

The NFL seems to be slowly awakening to this (their experiments with Twitter and Facebook last season) but the people covering it seem totally perplexed that large swaths of Americans are not shelling out 1-2 hundred dollars monthly to sit on their couch for 8 hours every Sunday. People don't want to do that anymore - so they simply aren't.

Folks want the game in a mobile platform. They want to watch it when they want to watch it. They also want to watch the game they prefer, not their in market telecast. That drives all of those folks to illegal streaming, DVR, or other workarounds. Most of the college age students I interact with, if they can't do it on their phone -- they don't give a crap about it. Sure, hardcore fans are going to be in front of the TV - but each generation is going to represent a change in habits. The NFL needs to adapt to what people actually want.

Viewership would skyrocket if people could purchase a stream of the game they wanted that they could access from anywhere for like 24 hours. Then you could watch what you wanted, how you wanted, where you wanted, and when you wanted.

[Dwinsgames]

I didn't know the NFL was a dictatorship. You don't honestly believe we should start taking people's freedoms away do you? Simply stop pointing a camera at these guys and the so called problem goes away. There are far more important issues in this World. Personally I would never sit during the anthem. That doesn't mean I have to become ferociously unaccepting of those who do the opposite.


you mean they don't already take freedoms away ? come on man ...

can you celebrate a TD ?

if you are a bronco or Seahawk can you smoke weed prior to games ? ( it is legal in their state )

need we go on ?

[BurghBoy412]

you mean they don't already take freedoms away ? come on man ...

can you celebrate a TD ?

if you are a bronco or Seahawk can you smoke weed prior to games ? ( it is legal in their state )

need we go on ?So, you do believe in taking another freedom away then. Cool Bro!

[BurghBoy412]

I'm watching a game right now and Cameron Meridith just got injured. They didn't show the replay because it was "too gruesome". Why can't they do the same thing with the non saluter's? See how easily you're hooked and dragged into anger?

[Mojouw]

I'm watching a game right now and Cameron Meridith just got injured. They didn't show the replay because it was "too gruesome". Why can't they do the same thing with the non saluter's? See how easily you're hooked and dragged into anger?

Agreed. Don't people realize that this whole situation is being used to manipulate opinions?

[Moose]

the long and short of it all should be this from the NFL business perspective ...

viewership dictates TV deals , TV deals have a direct impact on profit and player salaries , cap numbers ...

viewrship down last year after protests began , viewership will continue to suffer as long as it happens ,,,

this was seen outside a Cleveland VFW this past week

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIP1sIgXoAAsaNx.jpg:large

LOL !! Love it !!

[BurghBoy412]

Agreed. Don't people realize that this whole situation is being used to manipulate opinions?And it's not the NFL that is showing or promoting this. It's CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and the likes... The media is perpetuating this.

[Dwinsgames]

So, you do believe in taking another freedom away then. Cool Bro!

you can not be that dumb ...

you said the league isnt taking peoples freedoms away and I gave examples of how they do ... don't twist my words

[AtlantaDan]

this was seen outside a Cleveland VFW this past week

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIP1sIgXoAAsaNx.jpg:large

Devastating news if you want to watch the Browns, do not own a TV and the only place you know that has one is that VFW hall

Look forward to the followup story that the VFW hall TV is not tuned to Browns-Steelers in week one - apparently there might be some second thoughts about how many days in a "no longer" :coffee:

The veterans said if the demonstrations stop they will reconsider their decision.

http://fox8.com/2017/08/25/local-veterans-explain-sign-that-says-they-will-no-longer-televise-browns-games-at-strongsville-vfw/

[BurghBoy412]

you can not be that dumb ...

you said the league isnt taking peoples freedoms away and I gave examples of how they do ... don't twist my wordsWho's twisting words here bro? I never said the league doesn't take away freedoms. They do all the time. That doesn't mean they should take another.

[ThorndikeFFA]

No, thank you on Kaepernick. He had one decent and one good season. Since then he has sucked.

[Born2Steel]

If the league came out tomorrow and made a rule that ALL PLAYERS MUST STAND, WITH HAND OVER HEART AND HEAD UNCOVERED, or ANY PLAYER CAN DO AS THEY WISH ON THE SIDELINE DURING THE ANTHEM, it wouldn't make any difference to the discussion. Only then, league rules would decide how players behave during that time. Would THAT make everything better?

[BurghBoy412]

If the league came out tomorrow and made a rule that ALL PLAYERS MUST STAND, WITH HAND OVER HEART AND HEAD UNCOVERED, or ANY PLAYER CAN DO AS THEY WISH ON THE SIDELINE DURING THE ANTHEM, it wouldn't make any difference to the discussion. Only then, league rules would decide how players behave during that time. Would THAT make everything better?I don't believe it would. Either way someone is gonna be pissed off.

[Dwinsgames]

I didn't know the NFL was a dictatorship. You don't honestly believe we should start taking people's freedoms away do you? Simply stop pointing a camera at these guys and the so called problem goes away. There are far more important issues in this World. Personally I would never sit during the anthem. That doesn't mean I have to become ferociously unaccepting of those who do the opposite.


game set match go troll someplace else

[BurghBoy412]

game set match go troll someplace elseAs usual my point completely flies over your head Secondaryconcerns. I don't mind if you consider me a troll. Have a nice day my friend!

[polamalubeast]

This thread needs to be locked before it goes too far.

This is a football thread, not politics....

[Mojouw]

Well, so much for calm rational discussion.

Regulating on the field behavior and drug policy is a far cry from impinging on Constitutionally sanctioned freedoms.

For those that say it is a private sector workplace - I agree. But while the private sector obviates many free speech protections, it still must account for discriminatory practices.

http://corporate.findlaw.com/law-library/freedom-of-speech-in-the-workplace-the-first-amendment-revisited.html

"Even though the First Amendment free speech criteria do not apply to private employers, determine if there is some other interest that governs the employee’s ability top speak freely. The following are some examples:

Is this employee’s speech being restricted or punished because the employee is expressing religious or other beliefs that are different from the employer’s or from co-workers?"


Long and the short is that the NFL or any other employer can not compel an employee to do anything for the anthem or it is a discriminatory practice. To the NFL's credit, they have wisely stayed out of this legal minefield and let the situation kinda play itself out.

Like it or not, this isn't going away and will continue to be a behavior engaged in by members of the NFL. While, again, I want to stress I am not attempting to sway anyone's opinion on how they should personally feel about all this -- I once again ask, what is the big deal? It is about the easiest thing in the world to shrug off and ignore. That being said, how many posts do I have in this thread?

Hey, that rhymes...

[AtlantaDan]

This thread needs to be locked before it goes too far.

This is a football thread, not politics....

Of course this is exactly what Paul Zeise wanted with his Kaepernick column - he knew the Steelers were as likely to sign the Man in the Moon as Kaepernick and was just trolling to stir stuff up

Could move it to the Soapbox forum, which is pretty quiet these days

[BnG_Hevn]

Due to the Patriots buying 5 super bowls, the relaxing of "celebration penalties" which will have every chuckle nut player thumping their chest to get attention and the whole "kneeling for the anthem", football to me is becoming like baseball and basketball: no interest.

if the Steelers sign Kaepernick (sp) I am officially done with the NFL.