Joshua Dobbs Shows Why Landry Jones Is Still The Backup

[polamalubeast]

In a year in which there were some—perhaps many—who worried that the quality of talent at the quarterback position during the draft was dubious at best, we certainly saw a number of encouraging performances from some of the top names that came off the board, including Mitchell Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, and DeShone Kizer.

Two rookie quarterbacks squared off last night between the Giants and the Pittsburgh Steelers, with the former trotting out third-round pick Davis Webb at the end of the game with the third-string personnel, and the latter giving fourth-round Joshua Dobbs the opportunity to start the game—though there was really no other viable alternative, given their circumstances.

Veteran backup quarterback Landry Jones has been dealing with an abdominal injury for the bulk of the past week, and Ben Roethlisberger is obviously far too valuable to see much of any playing time in the opening game of a preseason schedule, so that left just Dobbs and undrafted rookie camp arm Bart Houston to command the offense against the Giants.


read more

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/08/joshua-dobbs-shows-landry-jones-still-backup/

[Shoes]

Dobbs made some bad throws granted, but he also made some very good ones, scrambling and throwing to his right & left (because Hawkins shit himself) and balls were dropped. He also threaded the needle under pressure to Grimble for a TD that was called back. One preseason game for Dobbs and this guy Marczi is tooting Jones horn?

[Edman]

Dobbs showed more in one preseason game than Landry Jones showed in four years, after being basically forced into the fire.

Oh, and the Steelers actually won a preseason game.

[teegre]

Dobbs played like a rookie.

BB and Dak were anomalies. Case in point: Tom Brady didn't even suit up his rookie season.

[Dwinsgames]

Dobbs showed more in one preseason game than Landry Jones showed in four years, after being basically forced into the fire.

Oh, and the Steelers actually won a preseason game.

not sure i 100% agree with this but its close enough

[Edman]

Dobbs Beginning: 1 of 5 4 yards 2 INTS.

Dobbs After: 7 of 10 95 yards 1 TD, and he had another TD pass that was taken away from him, along with a few drops, and made quite a few plays with both his arms and legs. He did not buckle or break down at all after that horrible start.

I was more impressed by his "second" TD pass. It was vintage Ben Roethlisberger. Flushed out of the pocket due to pressure because of crap pass blocking (Hawkins), and delivered a strike.

I think Dobbs will be fine. I'd rather have a QB who inspires than a QB who plays it safe and does nothing like Jones.

[polamalubeast]

Remember that Landry Jones, in his 4th season had 4 interceptions in one half against the Eagles last year!

Also, the Dobbs struggles at the beginning of the game was against one of the best defense of the NFL.

[st33lersguy]

Dobbs in less than 3 quarters showed about as much as Landry did in 4 years. The Steelers also scored 20 points last night by. I think the only time the Steelers scored 20 in a preseason game the last 4 years was any game in which Ben led a first quarter td

[Shoes]

Dobbs Beginning: 1 of 5 4 yards 2 INTS.

Dobbs After: 7 of 10 95 yards 1 TD, and he had another TD pass that was taken away from him, along with a few drops, and made quite a few plays with both his arms and legs. He did not buckle or break down at all after that horrible start.

I was more impressed by his "second" TD pass. It was vintage Ben Roethlisberger. Flushed out of the pocket due to pressure because of crap pass blocking (Hawkins), and delivered a strike.

I think Dobbs will be fine. I'd rather have a QB who inspires than a QB who plays it safe and does nothing like Jones.


Agreed! Hawkins got Dobbs sacked at least three times.

[Lady Steel]

So far, so good for Dobbs. After a rocky start, which was to be expected, in my opinion, I was quite pleased in what I saw from him.

[Craic]

Dobbs Beginning: 1 of 5 4 yards 2 INTS.

Dobbs After: 7 of 10 95 yards 1 TD, and he had another TD pass that was taken away from him, along with a few drops, and made quite a few plays with both his arms and legs. He did not buckle or break down at all after that horrible start.

I was more impressed by his "second" TD pass. It was vintage Ben Roethlisberger. Flushed out of the pocket due to pressure because of crap pass blocking (Hawkins), and delivered a strike.

I think Dobbs will be fine. I'd rather have a QB who inspires than a QB who plays it safe and does nothing like Jones.
This.
What impressed me even more was a ten yard pass he made. He rolled out to his left under pressure, but kept his eyes downfield and the ball up in a passing position with both hands on the ball for protection, then squared his shoulders before throwing the ball where he only could catch it.

[Shoes]

This.
What impressed me even more was a ten yard pass he made. He rolled out to his left under pressure, but kept his eyes downfield and the ball up in a passing position with both hands on the ball for protection, then squared his shoulders before throwing the ball where he only could catch it.

That is what really caught my eye as well, he is always looking down field and is really smooth in stepping up in the pocket, plus he has the advantage of having happy feet if all else fails. He throws the ball well rolling out to the left or right and has a strong arm.

[salamander]

Dobbs rebounded pretty damn well after calming down. If it wasn't for shitty O-line play and drops by the WR's, his stats would look so much better.

[SteelMayhem72]

Dobbs has a LONG way to go...he looked like shit against a lot of first stringers (collins)...but looked good against 3rd stringers. That is actually to be expected for a qb that is gonna be a third stringer himself

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[SteelMayhem72]

This is also why tomlin didnt give a lot of props to guys that played really well against 2nd and 3rd stringers

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[BlackAndGold]

Dobbs has a LONG way to go...he looked like shit against a lot of first stringers (collins)...but looked good against 3rd stringers. That is actually to be expected for a qb that is gonna be a third stringer himself

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Dobbs does have a long way to go.

Starting QB's will struggle against the Giants starting defense, that d-line unit is no joke. They take away the run, which takes away the playaction, two things you want to have success in while starting a rookie QB(which the Steelers didn't that basically backed Dobbs into a corner).

[polamalubeast]

Even Prescott had not been very good against the Giants last year, despite having all his weapons.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201609110dal.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612110nyg.htm

[DesertSteel]

Dobbs does have a long way to go.

Starting QB's will struggle against the Giants starting defense, that d-line unit is no joke. They take away the run, which takes away the playaction, two things you want to have success in while starting a rookie QB(which the Steelers didn't that basically backed Dobbs into a corner).
I'm looking forward to seeing some progress next game.

[BlackAndGold]

I'm looking forward to seeing some progress next game.

Wonder if they'll hold Ben out again? Last year he only played in the 3rd preseason game against the Saints.

LJ may return, but I'm hoping Dobbs gets another start.

[polamalubeast]

Wonder if they'll hold Ben out again? Last year he only played in the 3rd preseason game against the Saints.

LJ may return, but I'm hoping Dobbs gets another start.


If it would be me the HC, I would play Roethlisberger against the Falcons instead of the colts, since we are not playing against the Falcons this year and we have a game against the colts ....

[BlackAndGold]

If it would be me the HC, I would play Roethlisberger against the Falcons instead of the colts, since we are not playing against the Falcons this year and we have a game against the colts ....

That is true, and would be interesting how MT plays that out.

But we have owned the Colts in the past few years, probably wouldn't matter lol.

[polamalubeast]

That is true, and would be interesting how MT plays that out.

But we have owned the Colts in the past few years, probably wouldn't matter lol.


Good point!

[LLT]

Dobbs showed more in one preseason game than Landry Jones showed in four years, after being basically forced into the fire.



I think most of us are savvy enough to believe the "eye test". Though Dobbs made some mistakes, they seemed to be "mostly" rookie nerves and inexperience. However...the athleticism and the potential is most certainly there.

[pczach]

It's hard to understand how anyone would be too hard on Dobbs after his first NFL preseason start. There is nothing that Dobbs did on the field that showed me "Why Landry Jones Is Still the Backup". Landry Jones still rolls out steaming turds on a regular basis and he's been in the NFL for 4 years. Let's give Dobbs a break and give him a chance to grow.

He was obviously a little nervous early, and he failed to make a few easy reads. The interception was the best example of that.

After his early struggles, he really settled down and made some plays. He made some good reads, made some good downfield throws, and showed his athleticism. It was his ability to shrug off a tough start that impressed me the most. So many others would have continued to throw gasoline on that fire, but Dobbs figured it out and overcame some nerves the rest of the way.

That's extremely impressive. Especially when you consider how badly the offensive line played in front of him.

I have no idea what he does from here, but that's about as good a start as you can hope for from a young quarterback in his first NFL action. He showed me a little something.

Onward and upward young man.

[Iron Steeler]

Dobbs made some bad throws granted, but he also made some very good ones, scrambling and throwing to his right & left (because Hawkins shit himself) and balls were dropped. He also threaded the needle under pressure to Grimble for a TD that was called back. One preseason game for Dobbs and this guy Marczi is tooting Jones horn?

does anyone have video.of the grimble TD that was called back... i was driving listening to the radio . was curious how the play looked.

[polamalubeast]

does anyone have video.of the grimble TD that was called back... i was driving listening to the radio . was curious how the play looked.

8:00 of this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNKVCeRQEmI

[tube517]

does anyone have video.of the grimble TD that was called back... i was driving listening to the radio . was curious how the play looked.

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Josh-Dobbs-makes-impressive-throw-to-Xavier-Grimble-in-NFL-debut-106050586

[BlackAndGold]

The TD to Grimble should have stand. That holding call was very "meh"

[Iron Steeler]

thanks guys

[Shoes]

The TD to Grimble should have stand. That holding call was very "meh"

They should have called the throat holds NY had on TJ but they didn't.

[tube517]

8:00 of this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNKVCeRQEmI

PB is a Ninja!!! Beat me by a minute posting it. :lol:

[Craic]

One critique on Dobbs, however, is his proclivity for throwing the high ball. He did it all night. Hopefully, a little work on his mechanics will settle that down.

[polamalubeast]

Asked if No. 3 QB Josh Dobbs can move up depth chart, Mike Tomlin says, 'the door's never been closed.'

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0690237778914450370-4

[Edman]

Asked if No. 3 QB Josh Dobbs can move up depth chart, Mike Tomlin says, 'the door's never been closed.'

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0690237778914450370-4

When you have Landry Jones as your #2, any opportunity is there to move up.

It's basicially Dobbs' shot to lose.

[pczach]

When you have Landry Jones as your #2, any opportunity is there to move up.

It's basicially Dobbs' shot to lose.



You mean this guy doesn't inspire confidence that he is the solid #2 quarterback and the future starter in Pittsburgh? :chuckle:


http://www.celebnest.com/uploads/photos/1/steelers_qb_landry_jones_admits_it39s.jpg

[Edman]

You mean this guy doesn't inspire confidence that he is the solid #2 quarterback and the future starter in Pittsburgh? :chuckle:


http://www.celebnest.com/uploads/photos/1/steelers_qb_landry_jones_admits_it39s.jpg

"Relax. I got this."

[polamalubeast]

I do not remember seeing a QB still being in the NFL for so long because of just one half of Football



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc5g4_MwE_k

[Moose]

Comparing Dobbs to Landry isn't a plus in my opinion. Landry after all the year's under his belt is a 'good' QB at best. Nothing to base a team on in my opinion. Dobbs needs a lot of work. I sure hope Ben stays around Steeler town for many year's yet, I sure don't feel comfortable with anything I'm seeing from the bench.

[Edman]

I do not remember seeing a QB still being in the NFL for so long because of just one half of Football



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc5g4_MwE_k

I think Landry did well because no one expected him to do well. He was uninspired garbage at that point.

The Steelers had absolutely no business winning that game, but Ol' Brucey made it possible.

[Born2Steel]

Comparing Dobbs to Landry isn't a plus in my opinion. Landry after all the year's under his belt is a 'good' QB at best. Nothing to base a team on in my opinion. Dobbs needs a lot of work. I sure hope Ben stays around Steeler town for many year's yet, I sure don't feel comfortable with anything I'm seeing from the bench.

I understand what you're saying, but that's the only apples to apples comparison you can make.

[Buckinnuts]

not sure on this but my opinion..i would rather see Dobbs as number 2 than landry the kid did some good stuff last night..held in when pressured and new when to run..th last 2 plays were really good ..albiet that they were against some 3-4th stringers but still looked better than jones

[st33lersguy]

Landry at the 1 down by 4 after the Steelers got to the one by running Watson and a pass interference: Throws an interception

Dobbs at the 1 down by 4 after the Steelers got to the 1 by Dobbs passing: Scores the game winning TD

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Isnt Dobbs supposed to be the next Dak Prescott because he is a 4th round pick from the SEC??

Dobbs was the 5th best QB at the Senior Bowl this year, so I am not having any delusions that he will ever be the Steelers starting QB, but rather the future #2. The Steelers next starting QB will likely come from this seasons NFL draft with their 1st round pick.

[tube517]

I'm not getting my hopes up for Josh to be the heir apparent.

I do think he could eventually beat out Laundry for the #2. Unless he gets Batchwich Glass Sam Jackson Unbreakable syndrome.

[Edman]

Four Preseason Games, Dobbs is definitely a work in progress. The next Dak? Not really, but then again, very few will be.

Dobbs definitely has ability to succeed, but he is definitely a rookie. His accuracy is spotty and seems to be getting accustomed to the speed and nuances of NFL Defenses.

The best attribute of Dobbs is that he has a gamer mentality. He doesn't break down when things go hard. He doesn't make the same mistake twice, either. I think this is HUGE for him going forward.

[Edman]

Dobbs was the 5th best QB at the Senior Bowl this year, so I am not having any delusions that he will ever be the Steelers starting QB, but rather the future #2. The Steelers next starting QB will likely come from this seasons NFL draft with their 1st round pick.

Two problems with that:

1) The Steelers will have to tank or trade up to get a chance at drafting a QB in the first round.

2) They don't know who is coming out in 2018 that is even worth a first rounder. For all we know, 2018 may nothing but crap.

[polamalubeast]

903645811342499840

A big NO on that!!!

Him and Todd Haley would be a nightmare for me because the dink and dunk would be back!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Two problems with that:

1) The Steelers will have to tank or trade up to get a chance at drafting a QB in the first round.

2) They don't know who is coming out in 2018 that is even worth a first rounder. For all we know, 2018 may nothing but crap.

There may be as many as 6 QB's drafted in the 1st round next year according to several sites and mocks. Use the Google and you will see there is a lot of potential QB talent this upcoming year.

Yes, some may choose to stay, but if as many as 6QB's get 1st round grades by NFL advisory sources, then why stay in school. There will be a QB at #32 that is better than Josh Dobbs or Landry Jones in the 2018 draft.

[Shoes]

Hey El nice to see you!

[Born2Steel]

Ben is not going to be replaced. The next QB and probably the one after him, will get compared to Ben and they won't look good in comparison. Ben is lightning in a bottle. If everyone knew how good he would be, he wouldn't have dropped to us. This is not to say a different QB can't lead this team. I think we all know by now that's not Jones. Dobbs is in the 'remains to be seen' category. But I think we already know he's not looking like the next franchise. YET. Safer to assume we still need to draft our next franchise QB. Fortunately, there seems to be a great crop entering the draft next year. Fingers crossed.

[polamalubeast]

The steelers will need to make a trade up (give a first round in the year after),be very bad one year or be lucky to find a QB franchise like the cowboys last year, if Dark is the real deal.It's not easy, but it's possible.

If the steelers had drafted Dan Marino in 1983, the steelers would have had 3 HOF QB in the last 45 years for most of the time.

If they have the chance to take one, they must not missed their chance, otherwise it may take another 20 years to find one

[steelreserve]

There may be as many as 6 QB's drafted in the 1st round next year according to several sites and mocks. Use the Google and you will see there is a lot of potential QB talent this upcoming year.

Yes, some may choose to stay, but if as many as 6QB's get 1st round grades by NFL advisory sources, then why stay in school. There will be a QB at #32 that is better than Josh Dobbs or Landry Jones in the 2018 draft.

So you can enter the draft the following year and be among the one or two decent QBs, and therefore get panic-picked at #1 or #2 by some desperate team instead of at #23. There will still probably be a QB far better than Jones or Dobbs this year; the bar is not high.



Ben is not going to be replaced. The next QB and probably the one after him, will get compared to Ben and they won't look good in comparison.

This is probably true. We'll most likely get a guy we're excited about for a couple years and then he turns out to be like ... Jeff Garcia or something. My biggest worry is we get someone like Tony Romo or Andy Dalton who isn't good enough to win anything, but just good enough, for just long enough, to lock us into a shitty contract.



If they have the chance to take one, they must not missed their chance, otherwise it may take another 20 years to find one

It won't take 20 years. It took that long the first time because we didn't make it a priority. I don't think we'll make that mistake again.

For example, without moving in the draft at all, between Marino and Ben we could've had our choice of Boomer Esiason, Randall Cunningham, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, plus a bunch of second-tier guys who would probably be "good enough" to win a championship with a strong team around them (think Jake Plummer, Chad Pennington, and so on). Instead we took no one in the first round for 25 years and Kordell Stewart in the second. That was it for QBs. Today even the densest head coach and front office understands that's not going to cut it. You are absolutely right, though, that you have to take a chance if you have one, because you are going to get zero franchise QBs without trying. If there's someone who might be a future starter there when we pick, we're idiots if we don't take him.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

So you can enter the draft the following year and be among the one or two decent QBs, and therefore get panic-picked at #1 or #2 by some desperate team instead of at #23. There will still probably be a QB far better than Jones or Dobbs this year; the bar is not high.
.

Are you saying the Steelers cant find a franchise QB at pick #32 in 2018??

[steelreserve]

Are you saying the Steelers cant find a franchise QB at pick #32 in 2018??

Maybe. I'm saying if you were one of the six QBs and not being touted as "the" top one or two, you might stay in school. So maybe there end up being four or five top QBs available. In that case, with the way teams snap up QBs, it's conceivable all the top prospects will be gone by the middle to mid-late R1. Not guaranteed, just conceivable. Figure a minimum of three will go in the top 10 no matter what, then it all depends who's looking.

It will still definitely be easier to get your hands on one of the prospects than in most years - even if we had to trade up, maybe we'd have to move up to something like #20 instead of #7. But I think it is a mistake if you believe that a glut of talented players at a position means you'll have first-round talent available in rounds 2 and 3, second-round talent available in rounds 3 and 4, and so on. Six top-15 worthy QBs in a class means you'll have a run on QBs early, that's all. By the end of the first round everything's back to normal, or maybe there's one guy hanging around who wouldn't be normally. Same as with the glut of CBs or pass rushers that happens every few years.

Franchise QBs aside, I think there will be someone better than Jones or Dobbs available at the end of R1, but that's pretty much every year in every round.

edit: I don't meant this to sound overly pessimistic. As I said in the second part, this may be a year when we would only have to trade into the middle of the round to get a top QB, not the very top of the round. If we get that shot, we should take it, no question. I would just be somewhat surprised if that guy is there for a team standing pat at #32.

[teegre]

Remember when Tomlin really wanted Dak Prescott in R4, but the management threw Munchak a bone by drafting Jerald Hawkins instead.

Good times.

[Hawkman]

Remember when Tomlin really wanted Dak Prescott in R4, but the management threw Munchak a bone by drafting Jerald Hawkins instead.

Good times.

I'd throw Munchak a bone too......if he asked for it. It wasn't that long ago when every thread here, turned into a "our O-Line sucks" thread.

[Edman]

Remember when Tomlin really wanted Dak Prescott in R4, but the management threw Munchak a bone by drafting Jerald Hawkins instead.

Good times.

Different Situation. The Cowboys were dealing with a brittle, overrated QB in Romo whose age and injuries were piling up on him. Prescott was supposed to be a project but exceeded all of his expectations.

If the Steelers drafted Dak, Ben would still be the man. He'd be sitting on the bench, much like Dobbs is.

And if Dak was such a slam-dunk QB prospect, why did he go in the fourth round and not the first after Carson Wentz, who turned into a pumpkin in 2016 and Jared Goff who is on his way to being hot garbage? We as Steeler fans should attest to the fact that sometimes the best players don't get drafted where they should be. Our WR core doesn't have a single first-rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Hell, Ben was supposedly the third-best QB in the 2004 draft class.

[Mojouw]

Different Situation. The Cowboys were dealing with a brittle, overrated QB in Romo whose age and injuries were piling up on him. Prescott was supposed to be a project but exceeded all of his expectations.

If the Steelers drafted Dak, Ben would still be the man. He'd be sitting on the bench, much like Dobbs is.

And if Dak was such a slam-dunk QB prospect, why did he go in the fourth round and not the first after Carson Wentz, who turned into a pumpkin in 2016 and Jared Goff who is on his way to being hot garbage? We as Steeler fans should attest to the fact that sometimes the best players don't get drafted where they should be. Our WR core doesn't have a single first-rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Hell, Ben was supposedly the third-best QB in the 2004 draft class.

Its different with QBs. Dak got dropped for a DUI and some nonsense about "spread offense QB".

Anyone who watched the kid play and didn't freak out about gimmick offenses and one off the field thing would've realized the kid could play.

Plus, we aren't talking about the 1st round. We're talking about the 4th.

I know I agree with Teegre and was yelling at my computer screen for them to draft Prescott.

[polamalubeast]

Are you saying the Steelers cant find a franchise QB at pick #32 in 2018??



It would be very hard, since 15 teams may need a young QB next year.


Bills
Jets
Dolphins(maybe)
Steelers
Browns
Broncos(maybe)
Chargers
Jaguars
Giants
Redskins
Saints
Rams(if Goff is terrible again)
49ers
Cardinals
Vikings

True that it is going to be less than that, since good QB will be free agent next year, like Cousins, Brees, Bradford or on the trade market like Alex Smith or Garapolo but even to that, several teams will need a QB so much that the steelers will have to give a first round pick of the 2019 draft to have the QB that the steelers want.

[Edman]

Its different with QBs. Dak got dropped for a DUI and some nonsense about "spread offense QB".

Nobody runs "spread offenses" in the NFL.


Anyone who watched the kid play and didn't freak out about gimmick offenses and one off the field thing would've realized the kid could play.

One "off the field" thing. After the mess the Steelers have already gone through with Bell, and Bryant's (who by the way, was just suspended for a year at the time due to his stupidity) off-season antics the past few years, you can't blame the Steelers for trying to stay away. A DUI reeks of irresponsibility and bad choices. It may or may not be Dak's fault, but when so much is on the line, your choices will be heavily scrutinized.

[Mojouw]

Nobody runs "spread offenses" in the NFL.



One "off the field" thing. After the mess the Steelers have already gone through with Bell, and Bryant's (who by the way, was just suspended for a year at the time due to his stupidity) off-season antics the past few years, you can't blame the Steelers for trying to stay away. A DUI reeks of irresponsibility and bad choices. It may or may not be Dak's fault, but when so much is on the line, your choices will be heavily scrutinized.

Not saying that should be ignored, but that is how a highly talented guy and one who may prove to be better than Wentz and Goff fell in the draft.

Also, the whole no one runs spread stuff is BS.

The NFL better figure out how to evaluate "spread" QBs or they are not going to have anyone to play the position. At least it sounds like Colbert gets it.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/31/16231484/quarterback-problem-evaluation-spread-dak-prescott-derek-carr

[GBMelBlount]

I think Dobbs will become better than Jones.

I also think if the QB the FO is targeting is at the top half of the upcoming draft, that they should strongly consider trading up to get that player.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Maybe. I'm saying if you were one of the six QBs and not being touted as "the" top one or two, you might stay in school. So maybe there end up being four or five top QBs available. In that case, with the way teams snap up QBs, it's conceivable all the top prospects will be gone by the middle to mid-late R1. Not guaranteed, just conceivable. Figure a minimum of three will go in the top 10 no matter what, then it all depends who's looking.

It will still definitely be easier to get your hands on one of the prospects than in most years - even if we had to trade up, maybe we'd have to move up to something like #20 instead of #7. But I think it is a mistake if you believe that a glut of talented players at a position means you'll have first-round talent available in rounds 2 and 3, second-round talent available in rounds 3 and 4, and so on. Six top-15 worthy QBs in a class means you'll have a run on QBs early, that's all. By the end of the first round everything's back to normal, or maybe there's one guy hanging around who wouldn't be normally. Same as with the glut of CBs or pass rushers that happens every few years.

Franchise QBs aside, I think there will be someone better than Jones or Dobbs available at the end of R1, but that's pretty much every year in every round.

edit: I don't meant this to sound overly pessimistic. As I said in the second part, this may be a year when we would only have to trade into the middle of the round to get a top QB, not the very top of the round. If we get that shot, we should take it, no question. I would just be somewhat surprised if that guy is there for a team standing pat at #32.

I think if a guy gets a late 1st or 2nd round grade, then he might likely come out with the thought he can rise during the post season evaluation process.

Look up the 2014 draft and Carr went #36, while guys like Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater went in the 1st round. Then look up 2012 and who was taken before Russell Wilson in the 3rd round. The more QB's with a top 50 grading, then the more chances the Steelers have of "their guy" being there when they pick. Its better than the options that were in this years QB class (Although I think Watson will turn out to be a good QB and Trubisky will be a disappointment).

Short is, I don't think Dobbs will be anything more than a #2 QB in the league and if Ben decides to retire then the search begins and for those of us around when TB retired, we hope the plan is made so we don't have to watch Stoudt, Malone, Woodley, Tomczak, Graham, Brister, Kordell, Maddox, etc for a couple decades

[BlackAndGold]

903613946774528002

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

903613946774528002

Let me guess, its Chidi's film review. He has had a hardon for Dobbs since the start of camp.

[teegre]

I'd throw Munchak a bone too......if he asked for it. It wasn't that long ago when every thread here, turned into a "our O-Line sucks" thread.

Oh, I totally get why they did it.

It's just a shame that the Steelers could have had an heir apparent, as opposed to a mediocre LT.

[steelreserve]

I think if a guy gets a late 1st or 2nd round grade, then he might likely come out with the thought he can rise during the post season evaluation process.

Look up the 2014 draft and Carr went #36, while guys like Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater went in the 1st round. Then look up 2012 and who was taken before Russell Wilson in the 3rd round. The more QB's with a top 50 grading, then the more chances the Steelers have of "their guy" being there when they pick. Its better than the options that were in this years QB class (Although I think Watson will turn out to be a good QB and Trubisky will be a disappointment).

Short is, I don't think Dobbs will be anything more than a #2 QB in the league and if Ben decides to retire then the search begins and for those of us around when TB retired, we hope the plan is made so we don't have to watch Stoudt, Malone, Woodley, Tomczak, Graham, Brister, Kordell, Maddox, etc for a couple decades

Well look - obviously the more quality QBs there are in the draft, the better for us. This year might be the best chance to snag a starting-caliber QB outside the top 10 for a long time, and if we get the opportunity, this is really the time to take it. However, I don't think it's a guarantee by any means. We might have to make a move, but if the player is right, we should still do it.

I agree Dobbs is nowhere near being a long-term answer - he might be better than our other recent backups, but as of now I'm not even so sure about that. We need to take a shot at a real successor. However, I don't think we need to worry about a repeat of the '80s and '90s - that was 99% self-inflicted, and there's no way anyone in this day and age would repeat that mistake. Like I said earlier, my biggest worry is that we draft a guy who's ALMOST good enough, hangs around for a few years looking like he's close to reaching the "next level," gets the big contract and then never reaches the next level, and we just wasted 8 or 9 years of our time on a big tease.

After Ben retires, this is still going to be a more or less loaded team on both sides of the ball, so even if we don't get the new John Elway or Dan Marino, there's a good chance we could even compete for a title with the new Jeff Garcia, although we'd still have to look for another QB after that.

[polamalubeast]

Even when you try, it can be very hard to find a competent QB.

The Texans have tried in the last few years and it still does not work.We'll see if Watson is the answer, but for now, Watson has not been good in the preseason ....

[Steelermania]

Even when you try, it can be very hard to find a competent QB.

The Texans have tried in the last few years and it still does not work.We'll see if Watson is the answer, but for now, Watson has not been good in the preseason ....

How many of the top current quarterbacks were top 10 picks? Brady? No! Brees? No! Rogers? No! Carr? No! Ben? No! Wilson? No! Prescott? No! Only Stafford, Luck, Manning, Rivers, Newton, and Ryan. The other top 10 picks are not only not as good as the guys I listed, but are behind guys like Flacco, Dalton, and Cousins. It's a crapshoot, and while you increase your chances with a high pick, it's not even close to a guarantee that you'll even get a Joe Flacco, which is why guys like him, and Stafford get paid. We may laugh at Flacco, but I'd take him over every qb we had between Bradshaw, and Ben.

[st33lersguy]

Dobbs is no finished product and he has work to do, but he already is better than Landry and has shown some important traits

[teegre]

Different Situation. The Cowboys were dealing with a brittle, overrated QB in Romo whose age and injuries were piling up on him. Prescott was supposed to be a project but exceeded all of his expectations.

If the Steelers drafted Dak, Ben would still be the man. He'd be sitting on the bench, much like Dobbs is.

And if Dak was such a slam-dunk QB prospect, why did he go in the fourth round and not the first after Carson Wentz, who turned into a pumpkin in 2016 and Jared Goff who is on his way to being hot garbage? We as Steeler fans should attest to the fact that sometimes the best players don't get drafted where they should be. Our WR core doesn't have a single first-rounder. James Harrison wasn't even drafted. Hell, Ben was supposedly the third-best QB in the 2004 draft class.

I'm not sure that I agree. BB may not be brittle, but he's only a year or two away from retirement. In other words, brittle QB or old QB, both teams were looking for a younger QB.

Agreed: Dak would be sitting this year, and probably next year. Much like Rodgers did in Green Bay.

Simple answer: the NFL Draft is not an exact science. There are numerous factors that could cause a player to drop (despite being a better physical prospect). Heck, Dan Marino should have been the #1 overall pick in '83... but, he wasn't. In other words, you actually make that exact point (bold); so, I'm not sure what your last paragraph is trying to say.

SUMMATION:
If we had drafted Dak (instead of a mediocre LT), we wouldn't still be looking for our "next" QB... because, I'm not sure Dobbs is "the guy" (although, I hope that he is).

[Steelermania]

Heck, Dan Marino should have been the #1 overall pick in '83... but, he wasn't. In other words, you actually make that exact point (bold); so, I'm not sure what your last paragraph is trying to say.



Many would disagree with you, and consider the guy who was picked first, to be one of the three best qbs to ever step on a field. Not sure I agree with that, but you can hardly make a definitive statement that Marino should have been number 1. I don't think it would have been a mistake had Dan gone first, but it's certainly in no way clear cut that he was better than Elway.

PS,

That Kelly guy wasn't too bad either. With the 2004 class now nearing the end, I think the 1983 class will hang onto their status as the best qb group ever.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I just watched the final preseason game and I don't understand the Dobbs infatuation, other than the backup QB is always one of the more popular guys in town, especially when the hate is on for Landry jones.

The Good: Dobbs is athletic and buys time or makes yardage with his legs. Also, when he has time and a WR open by 3-5 yards, he can make the throw.

The bad:
-His footwork is messy and he has happy feet.
-his throwing motion seems to have some biomechanical hitch, its not pretty to watch and has some wasted motion.
-his decision making isn't good, but chalk that up to the fact the game is a bit faster than what he is used to.
- under pressure he doesn't make good decisions or passes. He had an open WR that he overthrew by 10 yards and was almost picked, despite nobody being near the WR by at least 5 yards.

In short, he really doesn't look that good, unless he gets his feet under him and he has a WR open by a few steps. All to be expected in a young QB, but again he is nothing more than Dennis Dixon at best.

[teegre]

Many would disagree with you, and consider the guy who was picked first, to be one of the three best qbs to ever step on a field. Not sure I agree with that, but you can hardly make a definitive statement that Marino should have been number 1. I don't think it would have been a mistake had Dan gone first, but it's certainly in no way clear cut that he was better than Elway.

PS,

That Kelly guy wasn't too bad either. With the 2004 class now nearing the end, I think the 1983 class will hang onto their status as the best qb group ever.

Elway 1, Marino 2... Marino 1, Elway 2

(potayto, potahto)

That's a debate for another time. My point is that players don't always get drafted where they should have been drafted: some go early & suck; others go late & excel.

re: KELLY
He was outstanding. I always thought he was underrated/under appreciated. But, he's definitely the third best QB in that draft class.

[Edman]

I just watched the final preseason game and I don't understand the Dobbs infatuation, other than the backup QB is always one of the more popular guys in town, especially when the hate is on for Landry jones.

The "infatuation" with Dobbs is that he invokes a lot of similarities and memories of 2004-2008 era Ben Roethlisberger. I'm not saying Dobbs is that good, I just said he reminds some of that. The not pretty but exciting, big armed, backyard, style that made Ben a household name in those days. Those days where no matter what happens, the Steelers were never out of a game with him under center.

Dobbs' GW drive Thursday was amazing. Even if it was against scrubs, he came through in the clutch. Ugly or not, he won the game.

People don't want Landry to fail, but the issue with Landry is that he doesn't inspire anything. He's resoundingly mediocre. He looks far more fundamentally sound as a QB than Dobbs, he knows the offense better than Dobbs, he does all the right things, but that doesn't mean anything when he cannot inspire the team and others around him to win.

Game is on the line against the Colts. Steelers on the 1. TD wins it. Landry throws a HORRIBLE interception.

Game is on the line against the Panthers. Steelers have no Timeouts. Less than a minute to go. Dobbs WILLS the team down the field for the win.

Wether these two are the answer at QB after Ben leaves, we don't know. Maybe we will have to draft another guy, but this is why people prefer Dobbs over Jones.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The "infatuation" with Dobbs is that he invokes a lot of similarities and memories of 2004-2008 era Ben Roethlisberger. I'm not saying Dobbs is that good, I just said he reminds some of that. The not pretty but exciting, big armed, backyard, style that made Ben a household name in those days. Those days where no matter what happens, the Steelers were never out of a game with him under center.

Dobbs' GW drive Thursday was amazing. Even if it was against scrubs, he came through in the clutch. Ugly or not, he won the game.

People don't want Landry to fail, but the issue with Landry is that he doesn't inspire anything. He's resoundingly mediocre. He looks far more fundamentally sound as a QB than Dobbs, he knows the offense better than Dobbs, he does all the right things, but that doesn't mean anything when he cannot inspire the team and others around him to win.

Game is on the line against the Colts. Steelers on the 1. TD wins it. Landry throws a HORRIBLE interception.

Game is on the line against the Panthers. Steelers have no Timeouts. Less than a minute to go. Dobbs WILLS the team down the field for the win.

Wether these two are the answer at QB after Ben leaves, we don't know. Maybe we will have to draft another guy, but this is why people prefer Dobbs over Jones.

OK, its like I said with the Dennis Dixon comparison. Its fans liking the schoolyard football play of a rookie in the same way they liked Dennis Dixon, Kordell Stewart, Robert Griffin, Johnny Manziel running around and making something happen. We all know from experience that does not work out to long term success in the NFL as opposed to being able to make the right decisions from the pocket and deliver the ball accurately.

I get it, its like when everybody thought the Wildcat offense was cool and Pat White was going to be the next great NFL star because he could shine in that offense. We all know how that fad turned out.

[Edman]

OK, its like I said with the Dennis Dixon comparison. Its fans liking the schoolyard football play of a rookie in the same way they liked Dennis Dixon, Kordell Stewart, Robert Griffin, Johnny Manziel running around and making something happen. We all know from experience that does not work out to long term success in the NFL as opposed to being able to make the right decisions from the pocket and deliver the ball accurately.

Yep. No long term success. None at all.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/eb/15/c0/eb15c0a31c8249834a195e17d03dd5d9--pittsburgh-steelers-football-ben-roethlisberger.jpg


The biggest knocks on Ben back in the day, even from Steelers fans, me included, me most especially is that he "holds onto the ball too long" and goes "backyard" too much.

How can you say that doesn't work in the NFL, when we have the what is considered THE poster child of backyard football having a long career in the NFL?

Injuries derailed RGIII, Kordell was horribly mismanaged (Three Offensive Coordinators in four years, talent exodus in late 90's, Cowher being a QB shouter), Johnny Manziel was drafted by the Browns, which is pretty much doom for any QB.

[st33lersguy]

Yep. No long term success. None at all.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/eb/15/c0/eb15c0a31c8249834a195e17d03dd5d9--pittsburgh-steelers-football-ben-roethlisberger.jpg


The biggest knocks on Ben back in the day, even from Steelers fans, me included, me most especially is that he "holds onto the ball too long" and goes "backyard" too much.

How can you say that doesn't work in the NFL, when we have the what is considered THE poster child of backyard football having a long career in the NFL?

Injuries derailed RGIII, Kordell was horribly mismanaged (Three Offensive Coordinators in four years, talent exodus in late 90's, Cowher being a QB shouter), Johnny Manziel was drafted by the Browns, which is pretty much doom for any QB.

And let's not forget the king of Backyard QBs Brett Favre who only set numerous career NFL records

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

And let's not forget the king of Backyard QBs Brett Favre who only set numerous career NFL records

Did both of those guys scramble for rushing yardage, or did they scramble to avoid pressure and then make completions downfield??

[GBMelBlount]

There is a fine line between scrambling when you have to and using it as a crutch.

Ask Fran "Better scramble than lose" Tarkenton.

Here is a good one from Ben, about 3-4 or into the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2fGoV8HwRY

[Edman]

Did both of those guys scramble for rushing yardage, or did they scramble to avoid pressure and then make completions downfield??

The latter.

I really don't blame you for being leery. Years of Michael Vick and Tim Tebow scared people into believing just because a QB is mobile or likes to scramble, he must not be able to throw or he must suck as a passer.

I've seen Michael Vick. We've seen Michael Vick, and Josh Dobbs is no Michael Vick.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The latter.

I really blame you for being leery. Years of Michael Vick and Tim Tebow scared people into believing just because a QB is mobile or likes to scramble, he must not be able to throw or he must suck as a passer.

I've seen Michael Vick. We've seen Michael Vick, and Josh Dobbs is no Michael Vick.

You blame me for being leery?? That is confusing.

I have never evaluated a QB based upon the fact that he is mobile or not. I base it upon footwork, mechanics, arm strength, film, style of play, attitude, etc. Josh Dobbs is a very intelligent kid, with OK arm strength, not a solid base of footwork and something awkward I see in his throwing motion. He doesn't see the field well right now and has for the most part been a guy that makes one read to two and then runs to get as much yardage as possible.

I'm not saying that Dobbs cant improve his footwork and recognition of defenses and route progressions, because that footwork is what leads to his inconsistent accuracy. I believe it will take a ton of work to get that desire to run to get yardage out of his game and look more to use his feet to slide and avoid pressure, then gather his base footwork and be accurate. The cliché of "windows are small in the NFL " is true and a guy with happy feet and inconsistent accuracy because of it will goto his safety blanket of running instead of working on his fundamentals.

Russell Wilson is a very mobile QB, but his footwork and fundamentals at Wisconsin were light years ahead of Dobbs, IMO.

[Craic]

Did both of those guys scramble for rushing yardage, or did they scramble to avoid pressure and then make completions downfield??

I think the one thing you're forgetting, El-Gonz, is that all the QBs you're using in comparison were QBs that tried to bring their running style to the NFL. If you've watched the preseason, that is something that Dobbs has not done. When he does scramble, he keeps his head up and his eyes downfield looking for the throw rather than the run. So far, the only time he runs is if he has lots of open field or he can make it to the endzone. As for his ability to pass, I disagree with you. His numbers in the preseason are made quite a bit worse by receivers and RBs that were dropping balls that should have been caught (hitting them in the hands or in the numbers). He's also shown the ability to throw back-shoulder and also hit streaking receivers in stride. And, he has a fast arm motion with lots of power.

I'm not ready to crown Dobbs heir apparent to Ben. Heck, after Landry Jones's last game, I'm not even ready to see Dobbs as the number 2 QB. However, I do think you're selling him woefully short. He's a player with tremendous physical tools. But, what makes him different than Dennis Dixon or Michael Vick or Kordell Stewart is what he has going on between the ears. I think he repeated a same (or similar) mistake once throughout the entire preseason, and that wasn't because he went away from the types of plays that caused the previous mistake. No, at this point, I think Dobbs's upper limit to his talent is probably 85 percent of Ben's upside. And, honestly, that's better than several starting QBs in the league and much better than Landry Jones long term.

[Edman]

You blame me for being leery?? That is confusing.

I meant I really don't blame you. Oops.

[Craic]

I believe it will take a ton of work to get that desire to run to get yardage out of his game and look more to use his feet to slide and avoid pressure . . .

Focusing on this part of the larger sentence only, what have you seen in the preseason that tells you he still wants to run the ball to get yardage? From what I've seen, he's using his feet to extend plays and looking downfield to throw the ball. I did see him in his first preseason game try to get yardage once with his feet, and it didn't work. Since that point, he dropped it. The only time he ran after that was when he was flushed from the pocket, and even then he kept his eyes downfield until there were no other options (or, when he knew he could pick up the necessary yards, which I don't mind at all, such as getting the TD in the final game).

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Focusing on this part of the larger sentence only, what have you seen in the preseason that tells you he still wants to run the ball to get yardage? From what I've seen, he's using his feet to extend plays and looking downfield to throw the ball. I did see him in his first preseason game try to get yardage once with his feet, and it didn't work. Since that point, he dropped it. The only time he ran after that was when he was flushed from the pocket, and even then he kept his eyes downfield until there were no other options (or, when he knew he could pick up the necessary yards, which I don't mind at all, such as getting the TD in the final game).

So I write a couple short paragraphs on Dobbs and you selectively choose 1 sentence to try and forward a notion that he doesn't like to run in the face of pressure? OK.

I see Dobbs most of the preseason having any success on his primary read when his feet are set. See the Hunter TD or quick flat passes, hooks, etc. When he has to progress to his 2nd read or more, he doesn't bring his feet with him to square his shoulders and set them, but rather has "happy feet" which progresses to running with the football. In college, he was the ALL TIME Tennessee rushing leader as a QB and probably ranks top 15 all time, because he had space to run. In the NFL preseason everybody is faster on defense than in College and he recognizes on the fly if he has an opportunity or if he is running for his life.

Dobbs does not yet have the skillset of going thru his progressions, setting his feet and squaring up his body to the point he can consistently deliver the football with accuracy. That will take time and the kid is a rookie. My belief is that it will be a major change in pattern behavior for the all time leading rushing QB in Tennessee history to become a guy that uses his footwork as an accurate passer, rather than a one read or 2 read scrambler.

And yes, I have watched the preseason. All the games at least once, as I still have the 4 of them on my DVR.

[Craic]

So I write a couple short paragraphs on Dobbs and you selectively choose 1 sentence to try and forward a notion that he doesn't like to run in the face of pressure? OK.

I selected one sentence in which I had a disagreement. Not sure why you're so defensive about that.


I see Dobbs most of the preseason having any success on his primary read when his feet are set. See the Hunter TD or quick flat passes, hooks, etc. When he has to progress to his 2nd read or more, he doesn't bring his feet with him to square his shoulders and set them, but rather has "happy feet" which progresses to running with the football. In college, he was the ALL TIME Tennessee rushing leader as a QB and probably ranks top 15 all time, because he had space to run. In the NFL preseason everybody is faster on defense than in College and he recognizes on the fly if he has an opportunity or if he is running for his life.


Sure, it may "progress" to running with the ball. But as you noted later, he's a rookie. My point is that he has already changed his mentality about running with the ball. How many times did you see him do it in the preseason? Now, he has to work on the mechanics that go along with the change in mentality, but I honestly have more confidence in him being able to figure that out than I do any other "Running" QB that has come into the league. That confidence comes not just because he's smart, but because he seems to learn from his mistakes quickly. And, in all honesty, that's perhaps one of the most important elements for any rookie.


Dobbs does not yet have the skillset of going thru his progressions, setting his feet and squaring up his body to the point he can consistently deliver the football with accuracy. That will take time and the kid is a rookie. My belief is that it will be a major change in pattern behavior for the all time leading rushing QB in Tennessee history to become a guy that uses his footwork as an accurate passer, rather than a one read or 2 read scrambler.

I think you're right, here. However, that's not what you were saying before (or, at least, that wasn't what I was reading before). What I read you saying was that Dobbs was the same running QB as he was in college—that is, a QB who would take off at a moment's notice and not look back. My entire argument is that at the NFL level, he has yet to show that proclivity in the admittedly short work we've seen from him.

As a sidenote—and probably similar to what you were saying—one of my concerns with Dobbs in college was that he had a tendency to lock onto a receiver. That behavior will get cause INTs and get receivers killed at this level.

[Edman]

He doesn't see the field well right now and has for the most part been a guy that makes one read to two and then runs to get as much yardage as possible.

There's a difference between a mobile QB and a running back playing QB. Dobbs has done absolutely nothing to warrant being called another Mike Vick or a Dennis Dixon. Does he have things to work on? Absolutely. His accuracy needs work. but this doesn't make sense at all. The most evidence you can say about Dobbs being another running QB is that he's the all time leading rusher at Tennessee. Really, That's all you can go on? So because he ran in college, that means he's a running QB. The stats say he's a running QB, but he has completely demonstrated otherwise in the NFL so far. Dobbs is mobile, but he's not another Michael Vick.

I've seen him take off running only once, and that was only when there was a totally open field ahead of him, AFTER looking downfield.

All the times I've seen Dobbs scramble, it was because of pressure or him extending the play ala Ben R. Dobbs always has his eyes downfield and is looking to hit someone.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Josh Dobbs is the greatest 4th round pick the Steelers have ever made. He will be a starting QB in the NFL. I understand why everybody is so excited about him. That 4th round selection makes up for the waste of a 6th round pick by Colbert of Colin Holba.

[Craic]

There's a difference between a mobile QB and a running back playing QB. Dobbs has done absolutely nothing to warrant being called another Mike Vick or a Dennis Dixon. Does he have things to work on? Absolutely. His accuracy needs work. but this doesn't make sense at all. The most evidence you can say about Dobbs being another running QB is that he's the all time leading rusher at Tennessee. Really, That's all you can go on? So because he ran in college, that means he's a running QB. The stats say he's a running QB, but he has completely demonstrated otherwise in the NFL so far. Dobbs is mobile, but he's not another Michael Vick.

I've seen him take off running only once, and that was only when there was a totally open field ahead of him, AFTER looking downfield.

All the times I've seen Dobbs scramble, it was because of pressure or him extending the play ala Ben R. Dobbs always has his eyes downfield and is looking to hit someone.

Edman,

I agree with you, but I think, perhaps, you and I both were reading El Gonz incorrectly. I think what he's trying to say is that Dobbs has all the mechanical problems of typical running QBs because he was a running QB in college. As such, we can expect nothing more from him as a passer than we can expect from any other running QB until he fixes his mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -


Josh Dobbs is the greatest 4th round pick the Steelers have ever made. He will be a starting QB in the NFL. I understand why everybody is so excited about him. That 4th round selection makes up for the waste of a 6th round pick by Colbert of Colin Holba.

How do you get that from others simply arguing that Dobbs is no longer running with the football like he did in college?

[Mojouw]

Are we just going to ignore the almost total lack of weapons that Dobbs had at UT? I mean no wonder he ran so damn much. Usually no one was open, or if they were, they dropped it anyways.

This is the biggest hurdle to evaluating college QBs. Are they doing thing I don't like at the pro level "x" because that is just how they do it - or because that is what the coach/system they are in at the NCAA level requires of them?

In Dobbs, I see a guy who ran in school because that's how it was. At the NFL level, I see a guy who wants to make plays from the pocket.

The reading and mechanics are the question marks. Can those get improved? If so, Dobbs will outperform his draft position. If not, he wont.

[Born2Steel]

The things that concern me about Dobbs is not his potential. The guy has huge upside and ability. I do think he will succeed here. At Tennessee, he had Alvin Kamara and Josh Malone who both have a great chance of succeeding as well. Dobbs had a terrible line though. He had to run a lot due to pressures. He has one of the best deep balls you'll see. It's why he misses wide open 10-15 yard routes that confuses me. He is so accurate deep, yet misses badly on the short stuff. I hope it's mechanics and can get fixed. That is what I believe, and hope I'm right.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

[QUOTE=Craic;600735]Edman,

I agree with you, but I think, perhaps, you and I both were reading El Gonz incorrectly. I think what he's trying to say is that Dobbs has all the mechanical problems of typical running QBs because he was a running QB in college. As such, we can expect nothing more from him as a passer than we can expect from any other running QB until he fixes his mechanics.
[QUOTE]

To address your first sentence or what I am trying to say.....I don't care if Dobbs was a running QB or a guy that needs a sundial to time his 40. By observations he does not have good footwork, he seems to have an odd throwing motion and his arm strength is OK. It might be the lack of good footwork or the throwing motion that leads to the inconsistent accuracy. He does have good athleticism and appears to throw a good ball on his first read, likely because he gets his feet in order to deliver a good football.

With regards to your 2nd statement. Its not that I am sentencing him to be the next running QB that cant make it in the NFL, but rather that his learned behavior due to success in running the football is to use his athleticism when he feels pressure and he bails from his progressions too quick. IMO, he needs to use his athleticism more to be a Russell Wilson type guy, or even better, to strive to have the footwork of a Drew Brees were he can get back into position to throw the football.

The fan following seems to be because "he is scrappy" or "he finds ways to move the football", or "he could be the next Dak Prescott" or "he isn't Landry Jones".. I just see him as a long way from being a guy that can lead a drive in an NFL regular season game because of his array of mechanical flaws. Like any human being, when faced with adversity in a new skill, we like to fall back on old skills that worked for us in the past and with Dobbs I believe that skill to be running.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

. He has one of the best deep balls you'll see. It's why he misses wide open 10-15 yard routes that confuses me. He is so accurate deep, yet misses badly on the short stuff. I hope it's mechanics and can get fixed. That is what I believe, and hope I'm right.

This is interesting and its in line of what I am seeing. When he is going to throw a deep ball, he makes his pre snap read and uses a shotgun 3 step or 5 step drop, then throws the ball. He has that mechanics down.

When he is throwing intermediate passes, he might be coming off his first receiver, or 2nd and he doesn't square up his lower body, plus there is still something wonky about his arm motion I cant identify yet, so he is not accurate. Hopefully he can get it fixed.

Bill Walsh used to say that if you showed him tape of a QB's feet for an entire game, he could tell you how that QB played. I fully believe that and understand it. IMO, Walsh would look at Dobbs feet and tell you the kid needs a lot of work.

[Craic]

The fan following seems to be because "he is scrappy" or "he finds ways to move the football", or "he could be the next Dak Prescott" or "he isn't Landry Jones".. I just see him as a long way from being a guy that can lead a drive in an NFL regular season game because of his array of mechanical flaws. Like any human being, when faced with adversity in a new skill, we like to fall back on old skills that worked for us in the past and with Dobbs I believe that skill to be running.

Fair enough on everything you wrote up to what I've quoted above. Basically, what I said about misreading you was correct, although you're talking pure mechanics instead of why the mechanics are bad.

On this statement, you could put me in the last category. Do I believe he's better than Jones this preseason? Honestly? I did until the last preseason game when Jones had a very good outing. However, I think it won't take much at all for Dobbs to surpass Jones.

To your last sentence, I see where you're going, but that's where I disagree and point back to the last four games. He didn't fall back on his old skills when faced with adversity. He stayed behind the line of scrimmage, kept eyes downfield, and looked to throw the ball. I don't even think it could be argued he bailed from the pocket too quickly. I don't think we have to worry about that element with him. He'll run with the ball when necessary, but he showed good focus on being a pocket passer. That said, I do agree with you on mechanics. I also noticed it with a couple of his "jump passes" that weren't necessary.

[polamalubeast]

I think Dark Prescott would still be the QB number 3 if he would be with the steelers since Haley does not know how to develop a Young QB!

I mean, in preseason Haley call too many run, run, pass...

Remember last year the cowboys were not in panic after the injury to Romo since Prescott had been impressive in preseason.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think Dark Prescott would still be the QB number 3 if he would be with the steelers since Haley does not know how to develop a Young QB!

I mean, in preseason Haley call too many run, run, pass...

Remember last year the cowboys were not in panic after the injury to Romo since Prescott had been impressive in preseason.

Isnt Randy Fichtner the QB coach? Would he not be the guy to develop a young QB?

[polamalubeast]

Isnt Randy Fichtner the QB coach? Would he not be the guy to develop a young QB?



Yes, but this is not him who is the playcaller ....

The OC has more impact on the QB than the QB coach because this is him who is the playcaller and that decides the system who wants to run.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yes, but this is not him who is the playcaller ....

The OC has more impact on the QB than the QB coach because this is him who is the playcaller and that decides the system who wants to run.

Shouldn't a young QB have his skills developed by the QB coach and be able to then throw the football with accuracy, execute handoffs, carry out fakes and play action passes? Then that skilled and talented QB should be able to perform, whether the OC runs a Zone Blocking run offense with intermediate passing game, a modified West Coast offense, a power run game with play action passing off of that??

I guess if you follow the notion that players are "system QB's" then they only can excel in systems designed for them.

[Born2Steel]

Shouldn't a young QB have his skills developed by the QB coach and be able to then throw the football with accuracy, execute handoffs, carry out fakes and play action passes? Then that skilled and talented QB should be able to perform, whether the OC runs a Zone Blocking run offense with intermediate passing game, a modified West Coast offense, a power run game with play action passing off of that??

I guess if you follow the notion that players are "system QB's" then they only can excel in systems designed for them.

That is how a lot of today's players are taught. Even where i live it's 'One Town, One Team' mentality from 6th grade thru HS. Same coaching tree all the way up. My son plays for the 8th grade team as LT. His arm band is tells him who to block only. 70 Alpha-Numeric plays and it only reads who to block.The game is being dumbed down to 'you do this when this play is called'. Not really developing football IQ. That's what's becoming rare and why there is such high hopes for a guy like Dobbs, who can think outside the box.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That is how a lot of today's players are taught. Even where i live it's 'One Town, One Team' mentality from 6th grade thru HS. Same coaching tree all the way up. My son plays for the 8th grade team as LT. His arm band is tells him who to block only. 70 Alpha-Numeric plays and it only reads who to block.The game is being dumbed down to 'you do this when this play is called'. Not really developing football IQ. That's what's becoming rare and why there is such high hopes for a guy like Dobbs, who can think outside the box.

So if players are being taught one system from 6th grade and up and that learned behavior is so ingrained as you are describing.....how is a coach like Haley or Fichtner supposed to "develop a young QB" that has 6 or 7 years of habits taught to him....where Dallas QB coach Wade Wilson was able to develop Dak Prescott so quickly??

You seemed to indicate that Dallas obviously was able to coach up Prescott so quickly, but have doubts that Pittsburgh offensive staff would be able to.

[polamalubeast]

Shouldn't a young QB have his skills developed by the QB coach and be able to then throw the football with accuracy, execute handoffs, carry out fakes and play action passes? Then that skilled and talented QB should be able to perform, whether the OC runs a Zone Blocking run offense with intermediate passing game, a modified West Coast offense, a power run game with play action passing off of that??

I guess if you follow the notion that players are "system QB's" then they only can excel in systems designed for them.

Of course, the QB coach is important for a young QB, but it is more important than the system of the OC fit the strengths and weaknesses that the QB has and that he puts you in a position to succeed.

[Born2Steel]

So if players are being taught one system from 6th grade and up and that learned behavior is so ingrained as you are describing.....how is a coach like Haley or Fichtner supposed to "develop a young QB" that has 6 or 7 years of habits taught to him....where Dallas QB coach Wade Wilson was able to develop Dak Prescott so quickly??

You seemed to indicate that Dallas obviously was able to coach up Prescott so quickly, but have doubts that Pittsburgh offensive staff would be able to.

I said no such thing. My response was to your question of, " that skilled and talented QB should be able to perform, whether the OC runs a Zone Blocking run offense with intermediate passing game, a modified West Coast offense, a power run game with play action passing off of that??".

Just stating most players are coming up through system coaching now. It has nothing to do with ability, thus my referral to Dobbs.

Another example is OK State. The QBs there put up amazing numbers. But they never seem to translate to the NFL even if they come with strong arm, accuracy, mobility, etc. IMO, this is a direct result of being brought up through 1 system, and not taught the GAME of football. This is why it is so difficult to draft the right QB at this level. The numbers don't mean as much as they once did.

As for coaching, some players are more coachable than others. That is pretty much my sentiment on that.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I said no such thing. My response was to your question of, " that skilled and talented QB should be able to perform, whether the OC runs a Zone Blocking run offense with intermediate passing game, a modified West Coast offense, a power run game with play action passing off of that??".

Just stating most players are coming up through system coaching now. It has nothing to do with ability, thus my referral to Dobbs.

Another example is OK State. The QBs there put up amazing numbers. But they never seem to translate to the NFL even if they come with strong arm, accuracy, mobility, etc. IMO, this is a direct result of being brought up through 1 system, and not taught the GAME of football. This is why it is so difficult to draft the right QB at this level. The numbers don't mean as much as they once did.

As for coaching, some players are more coachable than others. That is pretty much my sentiment on that.

OK, I thought you were saying that Haley doesn't know how to coach up a young QB like Dak Prescott, but obviously Dallas staff knows how to. I thought it would be the QB coach to refine and improve the skills, but you thought its the OC's system that is more important and not as much the skills of the QB. Your point of how some players are more coachable, I get, but then again I guess we wont know if Dak Prescott was just very coachable and that lead to his performance, or that even if the Steelers drafted him, would a coachable QB like him fail here because of the OC. :confused:

[Born2Steel]

OK, I thought you were saying that Haley doesn't know how to coach up a young QB like Dak Prescott, but obviously Dallas staff knows how to. I thought it would be the QB coach to refine and improve the skills, but you thought its the OC's system that is more important and not as much the skills of the QB. Your point of how some players are more coachable, I get, but then again I guess we wont know if Dak Prescott was just very coachable and that lead to his performance, or that even if the Steelers drafted him, would a coachable QB like him fail here because of the OC. :confused:

In a nutshell, yes.

[ALLD]

Dobbs looked better than Jones in NC. Jones might know the playbook better, but he has less talent than Dobbs.

[Born2Steel]

Dobbs looked better than Jones in NC. Jones might know the playbook better, but he has less talent than Dobbs.

Agree with this. Jones is the better NFL QB right now. Dobbs is the future. Depends on him continuing to learn and improve of course, but we already know Jones is not what we need. I'm going to keep pounding the table for a Paxton Lynch trade, but until that unlikely scenario happens, Dobbs is our immediate future.

[polamalubeast]

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[hawaiiansteeler]

Roethlisberger Surprised Rudolph Was Drafted; Wonders If Steelers “Screwed Up” Dobbs Selection

By Dave Bryan
Posted on May 4, 2018

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/05/roethlisberger-surprised-rudolph-was-drafted-wonders-if-steelers-screwed-up-dobbs-selection/