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View Full Version : Cowher Beneifted From Noll's Players



JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-08-2017, 06:56 PM
Dermontti Dawson (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DawsDe00.htm), Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Greg Lloyd (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LloyGr00.htm), Merril Hodge, Barry Foster, Neil O'Donnell, (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/ODonNe00.htm)Justin Strzelczyk and ETC. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StrzJu20.htm)

polamalubeast
08-08-2017, 07:02 PM
No doubt, but this team had very little experience in the playoffs and they had missed the playoffs six times in the last 7 years before 1992.

Cowher has helped the Steelers to build a great team for the 2000's and for Tomlin, I consider that the 2017 season if the majority of our key players are healthy, it could be our best and our most talented team of his tenure.

I had some doubts about Tomlin in 2013 and 2014, but I'm more confident now and this team has progressed in the last few years, which is important for a coach.

Always preferred Cowher, but that does not mean I do not like Tomlin.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-08-2017, 07:09 PM
Agreed and we can't go by what the coach inherited of talent or lack of it. They should be judge on long term 10 years or more what they did. Cowher and Tomlin both did well after most of the inherited players been gone. My point is the Tomlin was only good because of Cowher argument doesn't hold water and same can be said of Cowher with Noll.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-08-2017, 07:22 PM
No doubt, but this team had very little experience in the playoffs and they had missed the playoffs six times in the last 7 years before 1992.

Cowher has helped the Steelers to build a great team for the 2000's and for Tomlin, I consider that the 2017 season if the majority of our key players are healthy, it could be our best and our most talented team of his tenure.

I had some doubts about Tomlin in 2013 and 2014, but I'm more confident now and this team has progressed in the last few years, which is important for a coach.

Always preferred Cowher, but that does not mean I do not like Tomlin. Noll put the players in place to be good. He was just burned out at coaching and helped having a new coach with enthusiasm to get the most out of them. Same thing with Cowher he was spent after winning the SB and mailed the last season in. It was good to get a new coach to get the most out of the players. Both inherited a talented team.

polamalubeast
08-08-2017, 07:30 PM
No doubt Noll has built a good team for Cowher, but the only difference is that this team had almost no playoffs experience.

GBMelBlount
08-08-2017, 07:44 PM
Inheriting a good team can lead to and reinforce bad decisions.

Tomlin.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-08-2017, 08:35 PM
No doubt Noll has built a good team for Cowher, but the only difference is that this team had almost no playoffs experience. Here is my thinking on that. I think Noll may have wanted to retire a few years before but waited to leave the Steelers with a team that could compete. He realized he had one and then chose to retire.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-08-2017, 11:19 PM
Don't know how much input Chuck had in the 1990 draft but they killed it. Top TE, Above average QB, Above average RB, and a great OL player in the end rounds.



1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
1
Eric Green (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeEr00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
2
Kenny Davidson (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviKe20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
3
Neil O'Donnell (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/ODonNe00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
3
Craig Veasey (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VeasCr20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
4
Chris Calloway (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CallCh00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
5
Barry Foster (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FostBa00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
6
Ronald Heard


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
7
Dan Grayson


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
8
Karl Dunbar (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunbKa20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
9
Gary Jones (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneGa20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
10
Eddie Miles (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MileEd20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
11
Justin Strzelczyk (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StrzJu20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
12
Richard Bell (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BellRi00.htm)



- - - Updated - - -

Ps.all players Cowher inherited. I think Chuck was pushing for Green but have no idea on the others drafted!

teegre
08-09-2017, 01:27 AM
Don't know how much input Chuck had in the 1990 draft but they killed it. Top TE, Above average QB, Above average RB, and a great OL player in the end rounds.



1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
1
Eric Green (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeEr00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
2
Kenny Davidson (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviKe20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
3
Neil O'Donnell (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/ODonNe00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
3
Craig Veasey (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VeasCr20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
4
Chris Calloway (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CallCh00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
5
Barry Foster (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FostBa00.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
6
Ronald Heard


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
7
Dan Grayson


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
8
Karl Dunbar (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunbKa20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
9
Gary Jones (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneGa20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
10
Eddie Miles (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MileEd20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
11
Justin Strzelczyk (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StrzJu20.htm)


1990 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1990/draft.htm)
12
Richard Bell (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BellRi00.htm)



- - - Updated - - -

Ps.all players Cowher inherited. I think Chuck was pushing for Green but have no idea on the others drafted!

Gary Jones was an outstanding pick.

Alas, his being injured for the 1994 AFCCG put Tim McKyer on the field... who gave up both TDs.

Count Steeler
08-09-2017, 05:20 AM
Noll to Cowher to Tomlin. Kudos to the front office for knowing what they are doing and having the patience for each coach to mature in the league. 3 coaches since 1969. Next on the list is Seattle with 7 and they entered the league in 1976.

Don't really care which one is better than the other. All 3 won Super Bowls. That is enough for me.

JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue
08-09-2017, 06:09 AM
Gary Jones was an outstanding pick.

Alas, his being injured for the 1994 AFCCG put Tim McKyer on the field... who gave up both TDs. All I remember is Mckyer seemed like a good acquisition. Then most realize later he was only decent cause he played with Deion in Atlanta's secondary.

- - - Updated - - -


Noll to Cowher to Tomlin. Kudos to the front office for knowing what they are doing and having the patience for each coach to mature in the league. 3 coaches since 1969. Next on the list is Seattle with 7 and they entered the league in 1976.

Don't really care which one is better than the other. All 3 won Super Bowls. That is enough for me. Amen and agree!

- - - Updated - - -

Point of the post both coaches inherited great players. So unfair to constantly call the one out on it without mentioning the other that had it just as good!

86WARD
08-09-2017, 09:19 AM
Cowher benefitted with Nolls players but won a Super Bowl with "his own" players. Can the same be said going from Cowher to Tomlin?

Answer:

A. Doesn't matter. The players are what they are and they're more so the GMs players than the HCs.

B. Like Count said, all three won Super Bowls so basically who gives a fuck who benefited from the previous GMs players.

C. 3 Head Coaches since when? All won Super Bowls. All from different eras...impossible to compare the three equally. All are good.

polamalubeast
08-09-2017, 10:18 AM
A. Doesn't matter. The players are what they are and they're more so the GMs players than the HCs.
.

I am convinced that the HC have their say in draft or other things.In the last six years of Cowher, the steelers have made a trade down or a trade up 3 times in the first round (2001,2003 and 2006).It never happened under Tomlin ever since.

I think Cowher had some power in the drafts, otherwise he would probably have left the Steelers after the 1999 season, because of his power struggle with Donahoe.But it was Donahoe who has left.

steelreserve
08-09-2017, 10:37 AM
I think Tomlin is a good coach in his own right, but it took him a few years to get his shit together, and he would have been dead in the water if he hadn't inherited an excellent team. The 2008-09 drafts and our player development/position coaching issues around that time ... they got through it since he was starting out with a Super Bowl winning team, but imagine if he'd started out with a .500 team. That's a recipe for failure and most coaches would've gotten fired.

Once he got his legs under him, it's pretty hard to argue that he hasn't emerged as a very good team-builder on his own. So I think both the initial criticism of Tomlin and the subsequent praise are well-deserved.

Dwinsgames
08-09-2017, 10:48 AM
I have preferences . Noll , Cowher , then Tomlin in that order but other than Noll its impossible to prove one is better than any other and frankly it just doesn't matter all that much ...

Noll started with nothing and built a dynasty so he is without question at the top .... good luck proving a case for the other two that isnt easily countered for the opposite as being second ...
it will only be slanted towards who you favor based on coaching style as the statistical things are just to close and we do not yet have a complete picture of Tomlins tenure

86WARD
08-09-2017, 12:32 PM
I am convinced that the HC have their say in draft or other things.In the last six years of Cowher, the steelers have made a trade down or a trade up 3 times in the first round (2001,2003 and 2006).It never happened under Tomlin ever since.

I think Cowher had some power in the drafts, otherwise he would probably have left the Steelers after the 1999 season, because of his power struggle with Donahoe.But it was Donahoe who has left.

I agree they have some say, but it's ultimately the GM who makes that decision...unless it's one of those deals where coaches have say over the GM.

polamalubeast
08-09-2017, 12:44 PM
If I remember correctly, Cowher played a big role for the trade up for Polamalu.

True that Cowher/Colbert was lucky that Dan Rooney was there for the Roethlisberger pick, but the trade up for Polamalu is one of the best trade in Steelers history.


http://old.post-gazette.com/steelers/20030427steele0427p2.asp