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View Full Version : Bettis Ranks 18th On Gil Brandt’s All-Time Running Back List; Franco Snubbed



polamalubeast
06-20-2017, 02:46 PM
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ALLD
06-20-2017, 02:50 PM
Brandt had lots of entertaining stories when he was on Sirius NFL Network a few years ago. I think all of the cowboy picks are evidence of dementia.

fansince'76
06-20-2017, 03:13 PM
Still butthurt over SB X and XIII, obviously...

Born2Steel
06-20-2017, 03:51 PM
Bettis does deserve top 20, IMO. Good call.

tube517
06-20-2017, 03:52 PM
Uh, yeah. Zeke in the list and no Franco.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkKkpU-mtyw

This was Franco's middle finger to Hollywood Henderson and now to Gil Brandt. :upyours:

st33lersguy
06-20-2017, 05:18 PM
So running behind probably the best oline in football and all of a sudden you are the 26th best RB in the NFL. Not buying it. If Zeke was not a Cowgirl, he wouldn't be gettting all the hype he has gotten since he was drafted (part of that of course is he probably doesn't even lead the league in rushing on another team)

- - - Updated - - -

Also Barry Sanders at no. 8 is laughably low

BostonBlackie
06-20-2017, 07:21 PM
Three yards and out of bounds Franco.

Born2Steel
06-20-2017, 08:02 PM
Three yards and out of bounds Franco.

You're thinking of Jim Nance.

Did you get that pencil thin mustache from Brady? Got milk?

teegre
06-20-2017, 08:48 PM
877225006261952512

After one year??? That's asinine.


You'd have to put CJ2K on that list, as well then. :jerkit:

86WARD
06-20-2017, 08:56 PM
Elliott is on the list? Lol.

BostonBlackie
06-20-2017, 11:09 PM
You're thinking of Jim Nance.

Nance wasn't that smart.

teegre
06-21-2017, 01:03 AM
I'm glad to see OJ so high on this list. He murdered defenses. His cuts were deadly. He knifed through holes. Uh... hmm... double homicide.

tube517
06-21-2017, 07:56 AM
I'm glad to see OJ so high on this list. He murdered defenses. His cuts were deadly. He knifed through holes. Uh... hmm... double homicide.

http://cf.absrdcomedy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kato-kaelin-oj.jpg

steelerdude15
06-21-2017, 02:56 PM
He's just waiting to put Franco on his fullback list.

pczach
06-21-2017, 03:02 PM
After one year??? That's asinine.


You'd have to put CJ2K on that list, as well then. :jerkit:

I agree.

IMO, ranking any running back on that list after one year completely discredits the list.

Le'veon Bell is an awesome player, but if someone rated him as one of the top 3 RB of all time, it would be a joke. It's an entire body of work compiled over a career.

ALLD
06-21-2017, 07:49 PM
Toward the end of his career, yes Franco ran out of bounds all the time to avoid hits. He could have stayed another year or two with the Steelers and broke Jim Brown's rushing record, but he went to Seattle instead.

I watched them both and Franco >> Bettis.

Franco was SB MVP and picked up the Immaculate Reception. Bettis almost fumbled away ring #5.

Lady Steel
06-22-2017, 12:31 AM
Franco was SB MVP and picked up the Immaculate Reception. Bettis almost fumbled away ring #5.

Yeah, but Ben saved the day, so it's all good. :)

Craic
06-22-2017, 01:40 AM
I always find these types of discussions interesting. Mainly because it's so difficult to really compare them. An average NFL RB today would destroy most defenses forty years ago because so much has changed in conditioning, body-size, diet, speed, etcetera. I don't remember if it on this site or the previous one, but somewhere I have a thread detailing speeds of athletes since the 60s (I think it was then) and the difference was tremendous. The same is true for size. Think about it. Today, we have lineman who are running as fast as RBs did back then (Franco, for instance, ran a 5.1+, although that was admittedly later in his career) at 75 to 80 pounds heavier.

So, put side by side, most of yesteryear's RBs wouldn't make it on a list like this. I think a better comparison would be a list of RBs based on their domination of the game when they played. That, to me, is a better comparison.

tube517
06-22-2017, 08:17 AM
Joe Greene said they never won anything before Franco got there. Franco was the missing piece. After that, Bradshaw gradually got better and Rocky was able to be a great partner in the backfield.

Dwinsgames
06-22-2017, 09:33 AM
After one year??? That's asinine.


You'd have to put CJ2K on that list, as well then. :jerkit:

this ....

when putting together a " greatest list " you sure as hell need a larger body of work ....

greatness is something that is achieved over time not in a flash ...............

he could be footballs 1 hit wonder and last I checked 1 hit wonders do not make it into the rock n roll hall of fame and the pro football HoF has far higher standards ..

see Bo Jackson



as a side note IMO that list sucks in many ways , several guys far to low and several far to high

86WARD
06-22-2017, 09:56 AM
Jim Brown = overrated.

steel striker
06-22-2017, 11:15 AM
Yep we all know that Brantd is a Dallas homer and, has always had a Steeler bias.

pczach
06-22-2017, 11:51 AM
Jim Brown = overrated.

Are you being serious?

ALLD
06-24-2017, 06:13 PM
Jim Brown = overrated.

Closest player to Jim Brown I have ever seen live was Earl Campbell and he was the best RB of a generation. Brown was still better.

DesertSteel
06-24-2017, 11:19 PM
Jim Brown = overrated.
Lol...

So was Montana! And Rice! And Unitas! And LT! And Reggie!

- - - Updated - - -


I always find these types of discussions interesting. Mainly because it's so difficult to really compare them. An average NFL RB today would destroy most defenses forty years ago because so much has changed in conditioning, body-size, diet, speed, etcetera. I don't remember if it on this site or the previous one, but somewhere I have a thread detailing speeds of athletes since the 60s (I think it was then) and the difference was tremendous. The same is true for size. Think about it. Today, we have lineman who are running as fast as RBs did back then (Franco, for instance, ran a 5.1+, although that was admittedly later in his career) at 75 to 80 pounds heavier.

So, put side by side, most of yesteryear's RBs wouldn't make it on a list like this. I think a better comparison would be a list of RBs based on their domination of the game when they played. That, to me, is a better comparison.
Yeah guys from 40 years ago where selling insurance in the offseason.

Craic
06-25-2017, 12:59 AM
Yeah guys from 40 years ago where selling insurance in the offseason.

Yep, the idea of two-a-days in camp were to get the players in shape. Not to drill them on skills.

ALLD
06-25-2017, 06:41 AM
We had players from Miami's 17-0 team selling mobile homes and cars in the offseason. I remember when Larry Csonka got a new contract that paid him $50k per season and that was big money in those days. You could buy a brand new Camaro for $6k and a new house was $20k.

86WARD
06-25-2017, 03:34 PM
Are you being serious?

Not really...HOWEVER...

Really anyone you put behind Cleveland's O-Line during that era excelled at HB/FB. Very similar to what has gone on in Dallas the last few seasons.

Fred Morrison, Preston Carpenter, Bobby Mitchell, Leroy Kelly...all put up Brown-sequel numbers behind that Browns O-Line.

I forget where I saw it but there have been a few articles on it in the past.

polamalubeast
06-25-2017, 06:00 PM
For me Walter Payton is the best RB ever.

Barry Sanders is 2nd.

BostonBlackie
06-25-2017, 06:51 PM
For me Walter Payton is the best RB ever.

Barry Sanders is 2nd.

Clearly you never saw Jim Brown run.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGupe7nKuU

Mt. Rushmore

Coach: Bill Belichick
QB: Tom Brady
Running Back: Jim Brown
Defender: Lawrence Taylor

I'd put up a receiver but Rushmore only has 4 faces on it.

fansince'76
06-25-2017, 07:46 PM
Why is it that Pats fans, regardless of discussion topic, always find a way to turn it to fellate Brady and Belichick? :coffee:

fansince'76
06-25-2017, 07:57 PM
I always find these types of discussions interesting. Mainly because it's so difficult to really compare them. An average NFL RB today would destroy most defenses forty years ago because so much has changed in conditioning, body-size, diet, speed, etcetera. I don't remember if it on this site or the previous one, but somewhere I have a thread detailing speeds of athletes since the 60s (I think it was then) and the difference was tremendous. The same is true for size. Think about it. Today, we have lineman who are running as fast as RBs did back then (Franco, for instance, ran a 5.1+, although that was admittedly later in his career) at 75 to 80 pounds heavier.

So, put side by side, most of yesteryear's RBs wouldn't make it on a list like this. I think a better comparison would be a list of RBs based on their domination of the game when they played. That, to me, is a better comparison.

Jim Brown was 6'2" and 230 lbs. I doubt he'd have much trouble in today's game.

BostonBlackie
06-25-2017, 08:37 PM
Why is it that Pats fans, regardless of discussion topic, always find a way to turn it to fellate Brady and Belichick? :coffee:

Does anything but fellatio go on in here?

st33lersguy
06-25-2017, 10:50 PM
Why is it that Pats fans, regardless of discussion topic, always find a way to turn it to fellate Brady and Belichick? :coffee:

Because that is the extent of your average Patsie fan's football knowledge

Hawkman
06-25-2017, 11:05 PM
Does anything but fellatio go on in here?

How in the world has this troll been allowed to post 64 times?!!

BostonBlackie
06-25-2017, 11:47 PM
Because in the AFC, 2017 is a battle between:

https://usatpatriotswire.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/usatsi_9832479.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

BostonBlackie
06-25-2017, 11:53 PM
Because that is the extent of your average Patsie fan's football knowledge

At 73 I've seen a bit of football in my life.

hawaiiansteeler
06-26-2017, 04:38 PM
At 73 I've seen a bit of football in my life.

so since your fellating days are over now and you have nothing else better to do, you just thought you would troll a Steelers message board.

ok, got it...

BostonBlackie
06-26-2017, 06:32 PM
so since your fellating days are over now and you have nothing else better to do, you just thought you would troll a Steelers message board.

ok, got it...

Don't be so sensitive Hawaii. The NFL is about competition.

teegre
06-26-2017, 09:14 PM
Because in the AFC, 2017 is a battle between:

https://usatpatriotswire.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/usatsi_9832479.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlIdkY43a0I&app=desktop

Hawkman
06-26-2017, 09:36 PM
Because in the AFC, 2017 is a battle between:

https://usatpatriotswire.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/usatsi_9832479.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1


That may be true......but unlike a Ravens poster on here, you contribute absolutely nothing meaningful. My prediction.....BB troll here, will be gone by camp.

pczach
06-26-2017, 11:05 PM
Mt. Rushmore

Coach: Bill Belichick
QB: Tom Brady
Running Back: Jim Brown
Defender: Lawrence Taylor

I'd put up a receiver but Rushmore only has 4 faces on it.



http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/3d/2b/3d2b61_92639.jpg

BostonBlackie
06-27-2017, 01:51 PM
That may be true......but unlike a Ravens poster on here, you contribute absolutely nothing meaningful. My prediction.....BB troll here, will be gone by camp.

It's the off season son. I haven't seen anything earth shatering from anyone, including you. My prediction............hawk the troll here, won't contribute anything meaningful either before, or after, camp.

(Relax dude. I mean no harm. Just another football fan.)

Craic
06-27-2017, 02:35 PM
Jim Brown was 6'2" and 230 lbs. I doubt he'd have much trouble in today's game.

It's not just the size. It's the speed, the conditioning, medical attention, etc., I doubt very much you could transport Jim Brown of the 60s to a Sunday morning and simply stick him in a game (game planning and plays aside).

BostonBlackie
06-27-2017, 03:06 PM
It's not just the size. It's the speed, the conditioning, medical attention, etc., I doubt very much you could transport Jim Brown of the 60s to a Sunday morning and simply stick him in a game (game planning and plays aside).

But that's not the way it would work is it? Someone of Browns size, speed, strength, talent, would be prepared the way all players are prepared today. And then we would judge.

Craic
06-27-2017, 03:32 PM
But that's not the way it would work is it? Someone of Browns size, speed, strength, talent, would be prepared the way all players are prepared today. And then we would judge.

You've missed the entire context of the argument. The context is a comparison of players and what they did on the field when they played. Some believe you can compare any player straight across the board no matter the decade. My argument is that you cannot do that because today's players are bigger, stronger, and faster for the most part.

Context is everything.

BostonBlackie
06-27-2017, 05:15 PM
You've missed the entire context of the argument. The context is a comparison of players and what they did on the field when they played. Some believe you can compare any player straight across the board no matter the decade. My argument is that you cannot do that because today's players are bigger, stronger, and faster for the most part.

Context is everything.

Point taken. You're right that you can't say that Jim Brown could do today, what he did in the 50s, and 60s. But, transport Brown, or someone with the same size, speed, strength, and talent, forward, and train him as they do today, and watch out. Look what Andrian Peterson was able to do today. I would suggest he's Jim Brown like, faster yes, a determined runner like Brown, but not quite Jim Brown. Although he's the only one today who reminds me of Brown in many ways.

teegre
06-28-2017, 08:33 AM
re: Jim Brown

If you take his phenomenal, natural physique... and give him him a 2017 training regimen, he'd be putting up 2,000 yard seasons.

Also, remember that Brown was an outspoken about civil rights during the volatile late-50s / early-60s. He has told stories about how after almost every single play, someone did something cheap to him (stepped on his hand, twisted his fingers, punched his groin). I know, I know: cheap plays happen... but, Brown was targeted.

Born2Steel
06-28-2017, 12:40 PM
So many great RBs on the list. Why list them in any order. Plus, then you have to compare OLs, era, running style, etc. Honestly, if everyone was so much slower in Brown's era, how would they ever have caught a guy like Barry Sanders?

BostonBlackie
06-28-2017, 03:03 PM
re: Jim Brown ..........................He has told stories about how after almost every single play, someone did something cheap to him (stepped on his hand, twisted his fingers, punched his groin). I know, I know: cheap plays happen... but, Brown was targeted.

And despite all that he never missed a game. Not one game in 9 seasons.

People complained that the Browns over used Jim Brown. Paul Brown replied, "when you have a big gun, you shoot it".

Rarely does a man live up to his legend. In this case Brown was everything his legend has made him out to be.

zulater
06-28-2017, 05:03 PM
As to Jim Brown. IMO the greatest football player to ever play the game. I have no doubt that a 24 year old Jim Brown would be the best back in the game today.

As to the omission of Franco Harris. Ridiculous! Gil Brandt obviously has lost his "fastball". Seriously Franco had the tools to be a great player in any era. As far as his skipping out of bounds, almost always after he gained first down yardage. He was very clever in the way he did this insomuch as the yards he "forfeited" were of little value. People forget when the Steelers were the NFL's dominant team opposing coaches always took the mentality to try to shut down Franco first. He's he the offense funneled through. Not Bradshaw, Swann , or Stallworth. The 76 greatest Steelers defense ever possibly the greatest defense ever owed a lot of it's dominance to Franco. The team was 1-4 with Bradshaw playing virtually all the snaps. Of course as we know Joe Turkey Jones spiked TB which forced the Steelers into playing the virtually worthless Mike Kruceck at qb. The guy couldn't throw the ball more than 10 yards practically. Anyway week after week Franco, Rocky and the Steelers o-line would dominate against stacked defenses. They controlled the ball and helped the defense stay fresh.Of course then in the playoffs Franco racked up 138 yards in the first half against a very strong Colt team in Baltimore in helping the Steelers destroy the Colts 42-14. But he fractured his ribs in the process and with he and Rocky unable to play in Oakland the Steelers possible best team ever couldn't compete with a great Raider team in Oakland. Anyway if you go through any old newspaper clips of the day you see opposing coaches such as John Madden and Bum Phillips speak of Franco with awe and reverence. He was a first ballot Hall of Famer for a reason.

Six Rings
06-29-2017, 04:22 PM
Brandt is based and often wrong.

He did list John Henry Johnson at #16 overall, and he played for the Steelers the longest during his travels.

Six Rings
06-29-2017, 04:28 PM
Brandt's DT picks are a real jokes, Aside from his #1. William Perry rates highly. Be warned.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816301/Gil-Brandts-greatest-NFL-defensive-tackles-of-all-time

st33lersguy
06-29-2017, 06:52 PM
Brandt's DT picks are a real jokes, Aside from his #1. William Perry rates highly. Be warned.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816301/Gil-Brandts-greatest-NFL-defensive-tackles-of-all-time

Not too bad, other than PErry, Alan Page not being ranked in the top 10 and it's it too early to put Aaron Donald this high

teegre
06-29-2017, 07:29 PM
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816301/Gil-Brandts-greatest-NFL-defensive-tackles-of-all-time

Story:
My buddy & his girlfriend (now wife) had an apartment at SDSU. Every Saturday night, he & I would play spades against his gf & one of her friends... and, we'd talk all kinds of smack. We. Were. Brutal.

So, one night, she introduces her partner: La'Roi Glover. Aside from the fact that he was THE man on the football team, he was really big (nice, but big). Fast-forward to him kicking our asses for a few hours, and my friend's gf talking all kinds of smack... and she asks us: "You two are quiet tonight; what's wrong???" :lol:

Craic
06-29-2017, 07:34 PM
re: Jim Brown

If you take his phenomenal, natural physique... and give him him a 2017 training regimen, he'd be putting up 2,000 yard seasons.

Also, remember that Brown was an outspoken about civil rights during the volatile late-50s / early-60s. He has told stories about how after almost every single play, someone did something cheap to him (stepped on his hand, twisted his fingers, punched his groin). I know, I know: cheap plays happen... but, Brown was targeted.

Perhaps. I don't know if he'd be as dominant even with a 2017 training regimen, but I'd think he'd be the top or one of the top RBs today. Basically, Jim Brown was probably fify-five years ahead of his time. As to everything else you mentioned, I'm sure that took a major toll on him psychologically. It makes me wonder if that's part of the reason he quite at the pinnacle of his career. I don't think people realize how much that type of thing can wear on a person.

teegre
06-29-2017, 07:52 PM
Perhaps. I don't know if he'd be as dominant even with a 2017 training regimen, but I'd think he'd be the top or one of the top RBs today. Basically, Jim Brown was probably fify-five years ahead of his time. As to everything else you mentioned, I'm sure that took a major toll on him psychologically. It makes me wonder if that's part of the reason he quite at the pinnacle of his career. I don't think people realize how much that type of thing can wear on a person.

Just a few years ago, I heard him talking about how he felt like an outcast. So, indeed, I'd wager that that had an effect on his psyche, and in turn, made him retire prematurely.

Craic
06-30-2017, 01:24 AM
Just a few years ago, I heard him talking about how he felt like an outcast. So, indeed, I'd wager that that had an effect on his psyche, and in turn, made him retire prematurely.
Makes a lot of sense. Moreover, for the amount of money they got paid back then, to also bet treated like an outcast while "owners" were making a ton more money than the players . . . I could just imagine the kind of images and feelings it conjured.

fansince'76
06-30-2017, 05:07 PM
Just a few years ago, I heard him talking about how he felt like an outcast. So, indeed, I'd wager that that had an effect on his psyche, and in turn, made him retire prematurely.

I figured he tried to go for the "big bucks" in Hollywood - even star players in the NFL back in the day weren't exactly millionaires. Found this interesting tidbit:


Jim Brown Quits Football for the Movies

July 13, 1966

LONDON (AP)-Jim Brown of the Cleveland Browns, of the National Football League, the leading ground-gainer in pro football history, will announce his retirement today. The 30- year-old fullback will make the announcement at a news conference here, where he is making a motion picture. Although Brown still has one year to go on a two-year contract at a salary reported to be $60,000-plus a year, he has decided to step out at the top of his career.

Read more: Jim Brown Quits Football for the Movies (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/07.13.html)

$60K in 1966 would be a little over $450K in today's dollars, which also shows how much NFL salaries have inflated over the years. I'd love for the Steelers to be able to get away with paying Bell or Brown $450K a season.

tube517
06-30-2017, 06:23 PM
I figured he tried to go for the "big bucks" in Hollywood - even star players in the NFL back in the day weren't exactly millionaires. Found this interesting tidbit:



Read more: Jim Brown Quits Football for the Movies (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/07.13.html)

$60K in 1966 would be a little over $450K in today's dollars, which also shows how much NFL salaries have inflated over the years. I'd love for the Steelers to be able to get away with paying Bell or Brown $450K a season.

Some of those NFL players were taking other jobs (selling insurance for example) in the offseason in those days.


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/05/remember_when_offseason_was_wo.html


Lou "The Toe" Groza sold insurance. Guard Chuck Noll was a salesman for Trojan Freight Lines in Dayton. Paul Warfield co-owned a Firestone tire outlet.

Even fullback Jim Brown, the league's marquee name and one of the Browns' highest-paid players at $85,000 his last year, worked as a marketing rep for Pepsi-Cola between seasons.

"All of our guys worked," said former Browns guard John Wooten, who spent several off-seasons teaching math at Cleveland's Addison Junior High. "Nobody just sat around and 'worked out.'"

st33lersguy
06-30-2017, 09:43 PM
http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000816217/gil-brandts-greatest-nfl-linebackers-of-alltime

So according to the genius Gil Brandt, Lambert is only the 22nd greatest linebacker in NFL history. Guess he is still sore about what Lambert did to that idiot Cliff Harris in Super Bowl 10

teegre
07-01-2017, 10:00 AM
I figured he tried to go for the "big bucks" in Hollywood - even star players in the NFL back in the day weren't exactly millionaires. Found this interesting tidbit:



Read more: Jim Brown Quits Football for the Movies (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/07.13.html)

$60K in 1966 would be a little over $450K in today's dollars, which also shows how much NFL salaries have inflated over the years. I'd love for the Steelers to be able to get away with paying Bell or Brown $450K a season.

Indeed. He got a role in The Dirty Dozen and saw visions of grandeur. Who can blame him? Very little money (by today's standards) to wreck his body... versus... much more money to "pretend" to wreck his body?

Add in the targeting, the feelings of being an outcast, and the peer pressure from his fellow activists to quit being an "indentured servant" (as several activists referred to football in the 60's)... and it became an easy choice.