The Steelers and Celebrations

[StillCurtains]

I think it's good that Roger has lightened up on player celebrations a bit. I know that it's going to be league wide and that many teams will have a full arsenal of them throughout the season. I'm just hoping that this doesn't have a major affect on the Steelers.

We all know how much AB is "pro celebration." He recently made a comment in getting the offensive lineman involved. That's fine. However, I'm hoping that Tomlin addresses the team on this and keeps it under control. It wouldn't be good to have our players getting together using time on choreographing celebrations instead of focusing on winning.

I really would hate to have a "hot dogging" team that only looks for their next opportunity to dance but doesn't have the drive, composure and will to win when games get tight and plays need to be made. Nothing is wrong with having fun, but hopefuly the Steelers can channel it and keep celebrations and the task at hand in it's proper perspective.

[ALLD]

I don't want to win the Celebration Bowl, I want to win the Super Bowl.

[polamalubeast]

I have no problem with the celebrations.I mean, the steelers must score a TD if they want to make a celebrations!...More than the steelers will score a TD, the more they will be able to make celebrations!

This is a win-win situation!

[StillCurtains]

I have no problem with the celebrations.I mean, the steelers must score a TD if they want to make a celebrations!...More than the steelers will score a TD, the more they will be able to make celebrations!

This is a win-win situation!

It may be true that you have to score when you celebrate, but if you are in a shootout with New England (most significantly the playoffs) and start celebrating while going up 37-34 with 2:00 to play, then New England gets the game winning TD to make it 41-37, you look foolish!

What I'm saying is in situations like that, it's better to clamp down and stop the celebrating knowing you're in a dogfight and you need to focus on details and be all in. Celebrating should be more reserved after securing a win when the game is on the line.

Also, what good is it to celebrate every chance you get if you are a team that continues to do it but you are on a 3 game losing streak? At what point do you stop celebrating and focus on securing a win? A losing streak should humble you and have you focus on details. Even after finally getting a win after a losing streak, it should cause you to pause and have more of an appreciation for winning than celebrating.

It just goes to show that celebrations are truly not warranted. If you celebrate, it doesn't mean you need to at every opportunity. There are games and even certain parts of games where your focus is more highly required. If not, excessive celebrations can find you truly humbled which will make a team feel what is truly the point anyway?

[polamalubeast]

It may be true that you have to score when you celebrate, but if you are in a shootout with New England (most significantly the playoffs) and start celebrating while going up 37-34 with 2:00 to play, then New England gets the game winning TD to make it 41-37, you look foolish!

What I'm saying is in situations like that, it's better to clamp down and stop the celebrating knowing you're in a dogfight and you need to focus on details and be all in. Celebrating should be more reserved after securing a win when the game is on the line.

Also, what good is it to celebrate every chance you get if you are a team that continues to do it but you are on a 3 game losing streak? At what point do you stop celebrating and focus on securing a win? A losing streak should humble you and have you focus on details. Even after finally getting a win after a losing streak, it should cause you to pause and have more of an appreciation for winning than celebrating.

It just goes to show that celebrations are truly not warranted. If you celebrate, it doesn't mean you need to at every opportunity. There are games and even certain parts of games where you focus is required. If not, excessive celebrations can find you truly humbled which will make a team feel what is truly the point anyway.


I don' think the steelers are idiot.They will only celebrate when this is the time.

At least, I hope!

[StillCurtains]

I don' think the steelers are idiot.They will only celebrate when this is the time.

At least, I hope!

I hope so too Polamalu! We have a very talented team, but we are also very young! Tomlin is going to have to make this very clear to them.

[Mojouw]

NFL teams scored TD's on between 1 out of 3 (the Falcons with the top mark in the league) and a low of about 1 out 8 drives.

With those kind of success rates, I would be celebrating everytime my team scored too.

I can not wrap my head around all the weird lines that fans draw around what is appropriate and what is not.

[steelreserve]

I was never a big fan of the pre-planned celebration, because except for a few of the most clever ones, they mostly look contrived and dumb. Doesn't mean they should be banned, but what happened to just being excited that you scored and yelling and spiking the ball?

[Mojouw]

I don't know. It's been how many years since that started? Times change. This is an entire new generation of players.

Plus you can find group celebrations and pre-planned stuff going back to the 70's.

At one time spiking the ball was the height of disrespect. The Lambeau Leap wasn't a thing. Now both are a big "meh" for most fans.

[StillCurtains]

I think THAT is the difference. Celebrations back then seemed to be more based on excitement. Nowadays it seems more me-ism based and showing up the opponent.

[Born2Steel]

I plan to celebrate every 1st down, as well as every score. I will probably celebrate defensive plays and ST plays also. I have been known to celebrate timely penalties that extend our drives, or put us in FG range for game winning kicks.

I refuse to judge others on how they celebrate football.

[86WARD]

Who cares when they celebrate...I don't care if Mitchell celebrates every single tackle or step as long as they win. I don't care if he celebrates a loss as long as they win the Super Bowl...

[43Hitman]

I plan to celebrate every 1st down, as well as every score. I will probably celebrate defensive plays and ST plays also. I have been known to celebrate timely penalties that extend our drives, or put us in FG range for game winning kicks.

I refuse to judge others on how they celebrate football.Hahaha, well said. I'm right there with ya celebrating every good thing our boys do.

[Mojouw]

Last time I checked, Billy White Shoes Johnson played during the classy respect filled old school days and that cat showed up more people than Deion Sanders - https://youtu.be/K0EVm7fi0iQ

Here is a whole 1980's decade of dancing and "look at me" celebrations - https://youtu.be/E8Wop9c_bGU

The Fun Bunch got pretty darn ridiculous.

Everyone is buying this "hot take" driven nonsense that celebrations are about "me first" modern players or some other nonsense written by a moron with no sense of NFL history or perspective.

[FrancoLambert]

Is there going to be a time limit on how long a team can celebrate?

Delay of game penalties?

Denver is looking into hiring professional dance choreographers.

Goodell just opened Pandora's Box.

[smokin3000gt]

way too much hoopla about celebrations. if players want to celebrate then power to them, if they don't they don't. I really don't care either way.

[tube517]

way too much hoopla about celebrations. if players want to celebrate then power to them, if they don't they don't. I really don't care either way.

B-b-b-b-b-b-but your avatar... :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

Is there going to be a time limit on how long a team can celebrate?

Delay of game penalties?

Denver is looking into hiring professional dance choreographers.

Goodell just opened Pandora's Box.

Right - like the 9 million television time-outs don't interrupt the flow of the game.

[teegre]

I would rather have Limas Sweed than AB.

Why?

Sweed didn't celebrate anything.

[FrancoLambert]

Right - like the 9 million television time-outs don't interrupt the flow of the game.

They certainly do.

Now there will be more disruptions to the flow of the game.

Time will tell. We'll probably see the new rule "tweaked" after the preseason games are played.

[43Hitman]

I would rather have Limas Sweed than AB.

Why?

Sweed didn't celebrate anything.:chuckle: In full disclosure, I was huge on Sweed. I figured if they could get his depression and confidence under control the sky was the limit for that kid.

[GBMelBlount]

:chuckle: In full disclosure, I was huge on Sweed. I figured if they could get his depression and confidence under control the sky was the limit for that kid.

Only after watching Sweed play, did I realize that depression was, in fact, contagious.

[Moose]

I personally don't like the celebration. 'High' five's are okay, jump bumps are okay, but the stupid antics that draw the 15 yarder's are just plain ridiculous. First of all, we don't have the special team to allow giving the EXTRA yards given. Just for an example, AB does one of his stupid shit acts and we give up a 15 yrd penalty on the kick, then with our special team the opponent either fields the ball and runs it back for a TD or returns it midfield ( already in FG range in some cases) ! Some real intelligent field management in my book. Just score a TD like you are getting paid to do, celebrate back at the bench with the rest of your teammates, and move on. Like a baseball player does after a homer. Just my opinion.

[st33lersguy]

The new celebration measures are a step in the right direction in terms of scaling back Commissioner Asshat's over-regulation of the game just to show everybody how powerful he is. And I don't have to see AB get penalized for a celebration while a non-steeler doesn't get penalized for the exact same celebration

[Craic]

The new celebration measures are a step in the right direction in terms of scaling back Commissioner Asshat's over-regulation of the game just to show everybody how powerful he is. And I don't have to see AB get penalized for a celebration while a non-steeler doesn't get penalized for the exact same celebration

Nope. AB would still get penalized under the new regulations as "sexualized" celebrations still draw a penalty and a fine.

[GBMelBlount]

Nope. AB would still get penalized under the new regulations as "sexualized" celebrations still draw a penalty and a fine.

AB is quite the pole dancer.

https://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/antonio-brown-500273780.jpg?w=640&h=360&crop=1

[Craic]

AB is quite the pole dancer.



Nope, just a game player.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaZ78t3qz1w

[GBMelBlount]

THAT IS FUNNY!

[Steeldude]

I don't want to win the Celebration Bowl, I want to win the Super Bowl.

This.

I hope the players are more worried about the next play than fruity dance steps.

[smokin3000gt]

can't they have fun and play at a high level?

[teegre]

can't they have fun and play at a high level?

No.
They are mutually exclusive.


Case in point:
Name one season where Antonio "Celebration" Brown put up any significant stats.

Answer: You can't, because he's more concerned about practicing his post-touchdown celebrations than he is on running win-sprints (while strapped to a sled) and/or catching 1000 balls per day.

[Craic]

Personally, I say give the team 45 seconds to kick a field goal after a TD.

If you want to celebrate, it has to be weighed against the 45 seconds. Eat up too much time, you lose the opportunity to kick the extra point. No refs. No fines. And no three-minute TV timeouts after a TD only to then have ANOTHER three-minute TV timeout after they kick the extra point, followed by a third one after the next kickoff.

[Mojouw]

Personally, I say give the team 45 seconds to kick a field goal after a TD.

If you want to celebrate, it has to be weighed against the 45 seconds. Eat up too much time, you lose the opportunity to kick the extra point. No refs. No fines. And no three-minute TV timeouts after a TD only to then have ANOTHER three-minute TV timeout after they kick the extra point, followed by a third one after the next kickoff.

But that's how everyone (but the players) makes oodles of cash. The NFL doesn't work at all without the numerous TV timeouts. This is again why the NFL is just asinine with their policies. No way can the players express themselves to maybe get a "brand" (I know I hate it too!) going and make a bit of those billions for themselves. But the NFL can flog any old damn thing it wants, as often as it wants (I get it - Chevy trucks are super manly but not as manly as Fords) no matter how damaging those breaks may be the "momentum" of a contest.

And before everyone freaks out, remember that the average NFL salary is about $2 million dollars per year. And the average career is 3 seasons. Sounds awesome, right? 6 million dollars to play some football! Hell yeah!

Remember how math works though! How many guys working the 0-4 year minimum salaries (465-690 K) does it take to balance out the 20-30+ million per year "stars"? The answer is a boatload. Same thing, how many guys playing 1-2 years does it take to balance out the 10+ year vets? Again, a bunch.

So when we all get frustrated about the players trying to make a buck with their "personal brand" and "online media whatevers" -- remember that the vast majority of these guys walk away with about a million bucks and broken bodies.

If it gets too ridiculous, well that's why technology developed the previous channel button and wifi - look at something else.

[smokin3000gt]

Yup and don't forget about the 40% they have to cough up to Uncle Sam

[Craic]

But that's how everyone (but the players) makes oodles of cash. The NFL doesn't work at all without the numerous TV timeouts. This is again why the NFL is just asinine with their policies. No way can the players express themselves to maybe get a "brand" (I know I hate it too!) going and make a bit of those billions for themselves. But the NFL can flog any old damn thing it wants, as often as it wants (I get it - Chevy trucks are super manly but not as manly as Fords) no matter how damaging those breaks may be the "momentum" of a contest.

And before everyone freaks out, remember that the average NFL salary is about $2 million dollars per year. And the average career is 3 seasons. Sounds awesome, right? 6 million dollars to play some football! Hell yeah!

Remember how math works though! How many guys working the 0-4 year minimum salaries (465-690 K) does it take to balance out the 20-30+ million per year "stars"? The answer is a boatload. Same thing, how many guys playing 1-2 years does it take to balance out the 10+ year vets? Again, a bunch.

So when we all get frustrated about the players trying to make a buck with their "personal brand" and "online media whatevers" -- remember that the vast majority of these guys walk away with about a million bucks and broken bodies.

If it gets too ridiculous, well that's why technology developed the previous channel button and wifi - look at something else.

Honestly, that doesn't sway me.

Football player at 465k a year for four years equals 1.86 million.

Average policeman on patrol makes 53k a year. It'd take 35 years to equal the earnings of a football player.
Average firefighter makes 48k a year. It'd take 39 years to equal the earnings of a football player.
Average coal miner makes 50k a year. It'd take 37 years to equal the earnings of a football player.

And, talk about broken bodies. I'd rather risk my body for four years in the NFL than 35-39 years in any of those three jobs.

[teegre]

Honestly, that doesn't sway me.

Football player at 465k a year for four years equals 1.86 million.

Average policeman on patrol makes 53k a year. It'd take 35 years to equal the earnings of a football player.
Average firefighter makes 48k a year. It'd take 39 years to equal the earnings of a football player.
Average coal miner makes 50k a year. It'd take 37 years to equal the earnings of a football player.

And, talk about broken bodies. I'd rather risk my body for four years in the NFL than 35-39 years in any of those three jobs.

Here's the thing... the general public wouldn't pay $5 to watch a police officer, a firefighter, nor a coal miner do their job. But, that same group of people would pay billions to watch athletes. Why? Because athletes do stuff that 99.999% of the population could never do.

Same with musicians.
And, actors.

In other words, I equate athletics with the arts: we pay highly for their services because their talents are extraordinary.


NOTE: "Cops" is indeed a popular show. But... most who tune in to watch that show, are enjoying the idiocy of the criminals (rather than watching what the police officers are doing).

[Mojouw]

In that same 4 years the league will take in $28.4 billion dollars and each team will take in 890.4 million.

Like any industry, the rank and file are ludicrously underpaid when compared to the higher echelons of their given industry.

If a coal miner, cop, or firefighter could make extra money by building a brand and celebrations after performing a key job task allowed them to do that -- then I would be advocating that they get to celebrate as well.

From 2009-2013 (the only period I can quickly find #'s on - https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2015/04/28/despite-record-revenue-nfl-players-continue-to-get-the-shaft/#1e4680c32298) the average team saw its valuation increase 40%. The average player salary in the same period went from $1.98 to $2.0 million - that's a 1% raise. That's not even a cost of living adjustment (I realize they get paid a ton -- but the point is that is all relative).

Look, I'm wiling to bet a lot of us would trade positions with the back-up long-snapper if we could. And that trade would improve the quality of life for many of us. So it isn't like we need to have a benefit concert for these dudes - but they are underpaid outside of the top 1-2 guys per team. The whole NFL salary system from the rookie wage scale to the non-guaranteed contracts is set up to benefit the owners/league. So I think that it is okay that the league gives a little and lets these guys do what they want after they score. Just keep taunting out of it and it will be fine.

[Craic]

Look, I'm wiling to bet a lot of us would trade positions with the back-up long-snapper if we could. And that trade would improve the quality of life for many of us. So it isn't like we need to have a benefit concert for these dudes - but they are underpaid outside of the top 1-2 guys per team. The whole NFL salary system from the rookie wage scale to the non-guaranteed contracts is set up to benefit the owners/league. So I think that it is okay that the league gives a little and lets these guys do what they want after they score. Just keep taunting out of it and it will be fine.

To me, that is a non-sequitur. The amount of money the league makes versus the players has nothing to do with how a player celebrates after they score. Moreover, the players have a union, and the union negotiated a contract. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. The players receiver 55 percent of league media, 45 percent of NFL revenue including the website, tv channel, and NFL productions, and 40 percent of local revenue. From the owners pocket, they then have to pay the coaches, staff, buy equipment, training facilities, medical, blah, blah blah. In 2013, the Packers, for instance, had a total revenue of 324 million (they're a public company, so they are the only team that must disclose their revenue). Of that 324, 120-123 million had to be spent on player salary, bringing total rev. down to a rounded off number of 200 mill. From there, they had to pay coaches Head coach, 5 mill, 2 OC and DC, 1.5-2 mill (total). Position coaches, 300-400k per coach. At six coaches, that is 1.8-2.4 mill. Then, there are other expenses including stadium, practice, the tons of personnel including team doctors, managers, IT people, transportation costs, blah blah blah. In 2013, the average take after those costs was 53 million dollars. Of course, then there's taxes on that as well.

All said and done, if the Packers were average in costs in 2013, their 324 million income, after expenses and taxes, is only around 32 million. I have no problem with team owners making that much money that year. Has it shot up since then? Sure. Still don't have a problem with it.

- - - Updated - - -


Here's the thing... the general public wouldn't pay $5 to watch a police officer, a firefighter, nor a coal miner do their job. But, that same group of people would pay billions to watch athletes. Why? Because athletes do stuff that 99.999% of the population could never do.

Same with musicians.
And, actors.

In other words, I equate athletics with the arts: we pay highly for their services because their talents are extraordinary.


NOTE: "Cops" is indeed a popular show. But... most who tune in to watch that show, are enjoying the idiocy of the criminals (rather than watching what the police officers are doing).

Going that route, how much does the lead actor make compared to the studio? How about the supporting cast? I have no problem with paying players. However, I don't want to hear about a player that makes an equivalent of 35 years of money in four years complain about it, or take every opportunity within the game itself to develop their personal brand.

After the game? Sure. Offseason? Absolutely. In the sixty minute of game time on Sunday? Nope.
---------------


All of this to say . . . I still love my idea. Forty-five seconds after a TD to kick an extra point or go for two. If your guys want to celebrate and it cuts into the time. That's between the guys and their team. No more penalties and no more fines (unless it's taunting or blatantly sexual).

[Mojouw]

To me, that is a non-sequitur. The amount of money the league makes versus the players has nothing to do with how a player celebrates after they score. Moreover, the players have a union, and the union negotiated a contract. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. The players receiver 55 percent of league media, 45 percent of NFL revenue including the website, tv channel, and NFL productions, and 40 percent of local revenue. From the owners pocket, they then have to pay the coaches, staff, buy equipment, training facilities, medical, blah, blah blah. In 2013, the Packers, for instance, had a total revenue of 324 million (they're a public company, so they are the only team that must disclose their revenue). Of that 324, 120-123 million had to be spent on player salary, bringing total rev. down to a rounded off number of 200 mill. From there, they had to pay coaches Head coach, 5 mill, 2 OC and DC, 1.5-2 mill (total). Position coaches, 300-400k per coach. At six coaches, that is 1.8-2.4 mill. Then, there are other expenses including stadium, practice, the tons of personnel including team doctors, managers, IT people, transportation costs, blah blah blah. In 2013, the average take after those costs was 53 million dollars. Of course, then there's taxes on that as well.

All said and done, if the Packers were average in costs in 2013, their 324 million income, after expenses and taxes, is only around 32 million. I have no problem with team owners making that much money that year. Has it shot up since then? Sure. Still don't have a problem with it.

It certainly does have a relationship. Players score. They then celebrate. This gets them on highlight shows, social media, twitter, etc. Suddenly that player is "hot" and then they can make money hawking some sports drink or car dealership or whatever. These guys are all trying to make as much money as they can while their 15 minutes of fame lasts.

Aaron Rodgers entire sponorship career started with a TD celebration. So did Donald Drivers.

[Craic]

It certainly does have a relationship. Players score. They then celebrate. This gets them on highlight shows, social media, twitter, etc. Suddenly that player is "hot" and then they can make money hawking some sports drink or car dealership or whatever. These guys are all trying to make as much money as they can while their 15 minutes of fame lasts.

Aaron Rodgers entire sponorship career started with a TD celebration. So did Donald Drivers.

And now we're back to ESPNball. It's the same issue that has caused a lack of tackling in the NFL, because the big hit that blows up the player gets them on ESPN, and the social media, etc. Just because it happens doesn't mean it's good.

[Mojouw]

And now we're back to ESPNball. It's the same issue that has caused a lack of tackling in the NFL, because the big hit that blows up the player gets them on ESPN, and the social media, etc. Just because it happens doesn't mean it's good.

That certainly played a part. It is also related to practice time priorities at the NFL, NCAA, and high-end high schools. Many teams at all of those levels spend shockingly small amounts of time teaching fundamentals and going over things like tackling. Majority of practice session time is spent on weekly game-plan installation and walk through. Certainly after OTAs and training camp that is all practice really is in the NFL - gameplan installation and reps.

If a player doesn't come to the NFL with good fundamentals, they certainly are not going to learn them in the league with most teams. Ever notice how often times those small school guys do the basic things well? More time prioritized at their college and/or HS level on fundamentals.

Again, ESPN played a part, but it wasn't the sole reason. It is more the symptom then the disease. Plus it is a young person's game that is increasingly market to young people. That's what they want - so why fight it?

[teegre]

Going that route, how much does the lead actor make compared to the studio? How about the supporting cast? I have no problem with paying players. However, I don't want to hear about a player that makes an equivalent of 35 years of money in four years complain about it, or take every opportunity within the game itself to develop their personal brand.


I'm not sure where you're going with those first two lines... The NFL and Hollywood are quite analogous to each other.

NFL owner = studio CEO
star player = marquee actor
backup = supporting cast
camp fodder = day player
medical staff = scenery design
head coach = director

As far as "complaining", I agree: no player nor actor should be complaining about earning $2 million in just four years. But, I'm not sure how the topic of "complaining" jumped into the discussion. :huh:


On the topic of "35 years' worth of salaries"... let's take the cast from The Office, most of whom were flashes in the pan (which is a good equivalent to the aforementioned NFL players who last 4 seasons/make $1.85 million). Yes, those actors' careers technically lasted nine years, but you get the idea.
Oscar made his $3 million.
Kevin made his $6 million.
Phyllis made her $7 million.

Meanwhile, the key grip, best boy, and makeup artist would take 35 years to make that much. But, I didn't tune in for the first seven years to see the best boy; I tuned in to watch Michael Scott... as well as Angela, Creed, Toby...