Front 7 Ceiling

[Mojouw]

The WRs, TEs, and DBs are getting a lot of discussion lately and for good reason. But what does everyone think is the ceiling for this front 7?

The best Steelers fronts I've seen where the core of the last SB teams and then the 90s Blitzburgh groups.

I honestly think this grouping can be as good or better than either of those units. They might have the best 3 man line in the league and the depth there is exciting. Can you imagine if McCullers actually consistently played with fire and leverage?

Dupree, Watt, and Harrison are going to be holy terrors of the edge. Shazier has DPOY talent. And Williams is at worst rock solid. Depth sucks in this group, but they seem to be working on it.

Long story short, man coverage is cool and all and INTs are neat-o but I've always preferred to stop a passing game by planting the quarterback on his ass. Finally am starting to feel like he defense has enough tools to get back to that. Hopefully Butler won't wuss out.

I dream of games where the entire plan comes together. Offense uses the deep ball to get up 14+ which forces the other team to throw. Butler unleashes the hounds up front and the other team folds under an avalanche of sacks, pressures, and turnovers.

[pczach]

The WRs, TEs, and DBs are getting a lot of discussion lately and for good reason. But what does everyone think is the ceiling for this front 7?

The best Steelers fronts I've seen where the core of the last SB teams and then the 90s Blitzburgh groups.

I honestly think this grouping can be as good or better than either of those units. They might have the best 3 man line in the league and the depth there is exciting. Can you imagine if McCullers actually consistently played with fire and leverage?

Dupree, Watt, and Harrison are going to be holy terrors of the edge. Shazier has DPOY talent. And Williams is at worst rock solid. Depth sucks in this group, but they seem to be working on it.

Long story short, man coverage is cool and all and INTs are neat-o but I've always preferred to stop a passing game by planting the quarterback on his ass. Finally am starting to feel like he defense has enough tools to get back to that. Hopefully Butler won't wuss out.

I dream of games where the entire plan comes together. Offense uses the deep ball to get up 14+ which forces the other team to throw. Butler unleashes the hounds up front and the other team folds under an avalanche of sacks, pressures, and turnovers.


I like a lot of what you're saying. That works against most teams....but the reality is when you are playing a team like the Patriots and Tom Brady that gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds, you're not going to get there. You have to attack them with a mixture of disguised coverages, man coverage, and press man coverage. Press man is what can buy the pass rushers another second if the defenders are able to jam and disrupt the routes at the line of scrimmage, while also affecting the timing with the quarterback's throws.

I think that the DL is very strong, and now pretty deep after picking up Alualu. I expect great things from Heyward and Tuitt, while Hargrave should take a big leap forward with a full season of experience and a complete offseason to prepare his body and further perfect his craft.

At LB, Shazier has elite talent. Dupree is a big athletic guy that appears to be ready to start to become a steady, disruptive force. James Harrison is James Harrison. The only question to me is Williams. Is he athletic enough to hold up in coverage, or can the strong play of the defense allow the team to get him off the field on obvious passing downs.

Watt is the wildcard. If he comes in and gives them another consistent threat off the edge...look out. That will allow them to rotate players and keep the pass rushers fresh. What a luxury that would be.

I have high hopes for this front 7.

[86WARD]

I may be in the minority but I'm not sold on Williams as a starter.

[AtlantaDan]

I may be in the minority but I'm not sold on Williams as a starter.

Neither are Colbert and Tomlin given their attempt to sign Hightower (just a guess Hightower was not going to bump Shazier as a starter)

[AtlantaDan]

I like a lot of what you're saying. That works against most teams....but the reality is when you are playing a team like the Patriots and Tom Brady that gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds, you're not going to get there.

The Texans did even though they lost the playoff game

The Patriots quarterback threw two interceptions in the game, which was shocking because he only threw two interceptions the entire regular season. Brady finished 18 of 38 for 287 yards, but it wasn't his fault that he was off-target most of the night.

It's hard to be accurate when there's a defender in your face on nearly every play. If Jadeveon Clowney (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1852852/jadeveon-clowney) wasn't tossing Brady like a rag doll, then Whitney Mercilus (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1619959/whitney-mercilus) was throwing him to the ground.

To put it simply, it was a painful night for Brady.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-playoffs-tom-brady-survives-a-beating-as-patriots-eventually-rout-texans/

Without pressure no coverage scheme is going to stop Brady

[GBMelBlount]

Pzach

The only question to me is Williams. Is he athletic enough to hold up in coverage, or can the strong play of the defense allow the team to get him off the field on obvious passing downs.


86Ward

I may be in the minority but I'm not sold on Williams as a starter.

Upgrading ILB linebacker should be highest priority right now.

Gerald Hodges has been mentioned as a possiblity (Link). Any others?

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/27072-5-Good-Free-Agent-Fits-For-Steelers

[Rotorhead]

Not to mention, when the Broncos won the SB, Von Miller basically won that game on his own. I think we are building our defense correctly. Need to get people in Brady's face all game and he will get rattled. It would help if we could find a way to jam some of the WR's during the game to at least make Brady move to read #2 or #3, but it start up front with the pass rush, not matter where it comes from.

[pczach]

The Texans did even though they lost the playoff game

The Patriots quarterback threw two interceptions in the game, which was shocking because he only threw two interceptions the entire regular season. Brady finished 18 of 38 for 287 yards, but it wasn't his fault that he was off-target most of the night.

It's hard to be accurate when there's a defender in your face on nearly every play. If Jadeveon Clowney (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1852852/jadeveon-clowney) wasn't tossing Brady like a rag doll, then Whitney Mercilus (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1619959/whitney-mercilus) was throwing him to the ground.

To put it simply, it was a painful night for Brady.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-playoffs-tom-brady-survives-a-beating-as-patriots-eventually-rout-texans/

Without pressure no coverage scheme is going to stop Brady


That's true. I wasn't saying to only cover. You have to be able to do both. One compliments the other.

A dominant pass rush is still the best way to defend the pass, but you have to have the ability to cover when the rush doesn't get there.

It's just like having a dominant pass rush, but if you can't stop the run it doesn't matter. Teams will control the ball on you all day running it down your throat and wearing you out. Football is almost never doing one thing only. It's the ability to do multiple things that creates success.

[AtlantaDan]

That's true. I wasn't saying to only cover. You have to be able to do both. One compliments the other.

A dominant pass rush is still the best way to defend the pass, but you have to have the ability to cover when the rush doesn't get there.

It's just like having a dominant pass rush, but if you can't stop the run it doesn't matter. Teams will control the ball on you all day running it down your throat and wearing you out. Football is almost never doing one thing only. It's the ability to do multiple things that creates success.

Agreed :drink:

But while any QB does not want to get hit, Brady really does not like to get hit - it started with the undefeated Pats losing to the Giants in SB 42 because the Giants brought pressure and since then it got worse after his 2008 knee injury has been his one weakness as a QB

[fansince'76]

But while any QB does not want to get hit, Brady really does not like to get hit...

Really? I hadn't noticed the 50,000 or so times he's cried to the refs after getting hit or anything...

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Uh7gxqUvmhfGoMnZrgoRD1cS5VE=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7844825/hetouchedmeref.0.gif

[AtlantaDan]

Really? I hadn't noticed the 50,000 or so times he's cried to the refs after getting hit or anything...

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Uh7gxqUvmhfGoMnZrgoRD1cS5VE=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7844825/hetouchedmeref.0.gif

According to Jim Nantz and (RIP) Phil Simms that just shows what a "fiery competitor" Brady is:rolleyes:

[teegre]

Without pressure no coverage scheme is going to stop Brady

100% this.

[polamalubeast]

[/I]Without pressure no coverage scheme is going to stop Brady

Agreed,but the zone defense did not work against Brady even when the steelers had Harrison and Woodley or Joey Porter at their best.

Against the Zone, Brady thrown the ball in less than 2 seconds, which is impossible to put pressure on him.

- - - Updated - - -


I may be in the minority but I'm not sold on Williams as a starter.


Agreed

[Mojouw]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/05/film-room-keith-butlers-palms-coverage/

Perfect example of why it isn't really a man coverage versus zone coverage debate. Or an all blitz versus no blitz debate.

It is an integrated package.

I still argue that most of the NE game was a combination of the Steelers coaches out-thinking themselves and the younger players getting mentally overwhelmed.

What scares me the most is that NE game proved that having Golden/Dangerfield in coverage doesn't do anything positive - and there are no new options. So Unless Allen steps up and seizes a role in the dime and quarters defense...